Mathilde - Angel investors
[00:00:00] Mathilde: And I think to circle back on your question, we started with small amount and then the same angels when we raised again, they put a lot more money. So it's to show that you can raise money with only angels and you can raise big amounts [00:01:00]
[00:01:21] Juliet: Hi, Mathilde, thank you so much for joining how to start up today.
[00:01:24] Juliet: It'd be wonderful if you could kick off with a brief introduction as to who you are and a bit about the business that you started.
[00:01:30] Mathilde: Yes, of course. Thank you for having me. I'm Mathilde. I'm the co founder of M. So it's a company I started five years ago. Now, it's my second company. And so M is a Nutri Cosmetic brand. It's skincare, but in a new way. With supplements.
[00:01:48] Juliet: So how many years have you been doing this for?
[00:01:50] Mathilde: So we launched, um, um, uh, five years ago, 2018. It's still quite young and at the same time in five years, uh, [00:02:00] a lot happens. So it's, uh, amazing. Ah,
[00:02:05] Juliet: this morning about starting a company that it's like dog years, a month can feel like a whole year, a lot can change very quickly. And you look back and suddenly it goes super fast.
[00:02:14] Juliet: And everything you find when you start a business, there's lots of questions that come up and that's where this podcast came from. And we've done a sustainability season, we've done a health and wellness season, we're doing branding next year, but. This season is all around investment. So we would love to chat to you about angel investors and how to pitch to them because it's a big, big thing going after investment and a lot of people have a lot of apprehension about it.
[00:02:38] Juliet: But one of the first steps on that ladder is angel investors. So would you be able to just give a brief explanation as to maybe what an angel investor is?
[00:02:46] Mathilde: Yes, so, I mean, my definition of an angel investor, it's someone who invests their own money, compared to a VC. So it's, usually, someone that [00:03:00] does that as like an extra job,
[00:03:02] Juliet: It's not their day job, it's, their personal finance.
[00:03:05] Mathilde: Yes, and I think it's, uh, a huge difference and something to really have in mind.
[00:03:11] Mathilde: And so, why is the term Angel? So I think it's like someone coming from, you don't know where to help you grow your business.
[00:03:21] Juliet: Yes. I've often sort of wondered why angel and the word unicorn,
[00:03:25] Juliet: And then you've got tricorn, you've got these interesting words, the sort of mythical beasts, magical creatures, things that aren't necessarily, are they real even? We know angel investors are real. So what would you say are the biggest mistakes people make when they're pitching to angel investors?
[00:03:41] Mathilde:
[00:03:41] Mathilde: So I think maybe one of the biggest mistake is like not being prepared enough or maybe sometimes like being too prepared in a way that, when you pitch to an angel investor, again, you have to keep in mind that it's not their job the one I know and the one I've [00:04:00] been to, there are expert in their own field. And so you have to come prepared, but mostly about the vision and like really being focused on, What is it that you are bringing to the market? What is different?
[00:04:15] Mathilde: And I think an angel investor is really responsive to a message about vision even more than numbers. Like when you go to a VC, they're really focused on numbers and return on profitability, et cetera. In my experience, all the angel investors I've been talking with ,they're more interested in you as an entrepreneur and what you want to do.
[00:04:40] Mathilde: So I think it's something really that you have to keep in mind when you prepare your pitch to an angel investor is the person you are talking to.
[00:04:50] Juliet: So it's more human to human. and how you click with them, that kind of personal insight as opposed to a VC, I get the impression is many people, [00:05:00] lots of different stakeholders, it's more of a business to business pitch, whereas an angel is more of a kind of personal, they're going to be in it for the long haul.
[00:05:09] Juliet: And how much do you like them potentially as
[00:05:12] Mathilde: Yes.
[00:05:12] Mathilde: It's something really you have to know and understand when you prepare your pitch to an angel investor.
[00:05:19] Mathilde: So again, I think I would really put the emphasis on the, uh, Storytelling and the vision and what you are bringing to the market and how your business is different from what is already existing. And usually when you go to business center, and at least that's what I did, but usually it's entrepreneurs and, um Usually they are experts in their own field because like they've been successful and so they know the market quite well.
[00:05:50] Mathilde: And so when you prepare your pitch to a business, um, angel, I think you should, um, really be aware of that. And so Focus on that of course, numbers are [00:06:00] really important and you have to show you know what you are doing because if you want to have their money.
[00:06:05] Mathilde: But, it has a lot to do with emotion and connection and making sure they understand what you want to do. Because as entrepreneurs, they know that when you start, of course, you can't have everything figured out.
[00:06:20] Juliet: I mean, that I mean, that would be amazing if that were, you wouldn't need investors if that were the case.
[00:06:23] Mathilde: exactly. So it has a lot to do with storytelling and emotion and connection and the way you tell your story and what you want to do with their money.
[00:06:35] Juliet: Yeah. Whereas ultimately it is their personal money that's coming into your business. And is there any advice on the types of people you should look for when it comes to your investors, particularly angel?
[00:06:46] Mathilde: Again, I think to me, the best angels would be entrepreneurs. Uh, because of course you go to angel investor for money. But in my case, you also go to them for advice. [00:07:00] And so I would advise entrepreneurs to go for angel that are experts in their, field and, uh, in the market they want to grow into. In our case, it's wellness and cosmetic industry. And so I went to, uh, entrepreneurs that I knew had built business that were very successful and that I could learn from and it's really important to know what you are looking for. It's not just about the money it's
[00:07:33] Juliet: That support and that little black book of like, how else are they going to bolster your business?
[00:07:38] Mathilde: Yeah. compared to VC. Also, I think it's, again, this, um, emotional relationship that you're going to have with them, uh, is so important. And I knew that in my precedent experience, we raised money with VC and I was never comfortable I knew that
[00:07:55] Mathilde: I would never send them an email asking for like, can we get a coffee? [00:08:00] I have this question in my mind. And so when I launched M I knew I wanted to have only, uh, angels and I wanted only women because I really wanted to feel confident. And of course I was asking for money, but I I also was asking for advice and how to grow my business and I really wanted to make sure that I could feel at ease and just asking for again, a coffee, a lunch, uh, an introduction, you know, it's also about that.
[00:08:29] Juliet: So for you, it's much more of the back and forth relationship. It's not day to day, week to week, it's not so every quarter we're reporting, you're having a relationship with them.
[00:08:39] Mathilde: Yes. So it's not, um, it's kind of, um, like it's not day to day and it's not. It's not even months to months, like we kind of have more, uh, like every three months we send them information but if I have a question I know that I can reach them quite easily.
[00:08:55] Juliet: And were you up front when you went after investors? Were you [00:09:00] quite candid with them to say, look, this is what I need financially, but this is also what I need that is non financial?
[00:09:06] Mathilde: I think it was, but I don't know if it's the fact that we are women and so we have a lot of intuition. And so, So, if I showed you the pitch I made, uh, six years ago about M, um, it didn't speak a lot about numbers, and it was really more a pitch about, my vision and what I wanted the brand to look like and to bring to the market.
[00:09:31] Mathilde: And it really resonated with these women because as women, as customers, they were like, Oh, I really see how this brand could, um, my routine and that it doesn't exist on the market and that. So I think it's the first thing they really are resonated with. Um, and then of course I talk about how much money I needed, but it was quite a small ticket for them.
[00:09:58] Juliet: A lot of people I've met with the [00:10:00] whole going through Friends and Family, Seed Round, Angel, Series A, and we took a client through Series E last summer with their PR, but there's so many different stages to the investment journey. It's commonly understood, or maybe misunderstood that Angels would only invest a certain amount up to a certain amount, and after that you go for bigger investment rounds with bigger firms. Is that true?
[00:10:25] Mathilde: I think I discovered, um, a new world because again with my first company, I thought you could only raise big amount with VCs. And as you said, Angel, it was more like little amount and more like in a friend and family kind of way. And then, uh, with M, when we decided to go more like the Angel's route and like having a smaller group of investor, You quickly realize that you, there is a lot of people with quite a lot of money [00:11:00] and that are willing to invest, uh, in, uh, companies.
[00:11:03] Juliet: So there's no limit really.
[00:11:06] Mathilde: yeah, I think, of course it can go like from, maybe 10K and then, 200k, but then I think you can go much, much higher. So
[00:11:18] Juliet: How do you find them? And what's the best way to identify the right ones
[00:11:23] Mathilde: right way to identify is, I really, I'm a really, um, how do you say in English? Like, uh, I need to have a vision of, um, where I want to be, where I want to bring my, my brand in the future. And so for M I kind of had a list of my dream investor, like again, it was all women, all entrepreneurs in the fashion, beauty industry for France.
[00:11:50] Mathilde: Then okay, you have a list. How do you get in touch with them? And so I think for Angel, it has a lot to do with, don't be afraid to ask for [00:12:00] introduction. Uh, some of them I reached out on LinkedIn. Um, some of them I asked, uh, an introduction by someone I knew, maybe knew them. So, you just have to try.
[00:12:11] Mathilde: Um,
[00:12:11] Juliet: chipping away at it, seeing who your network could help with. And then, I mean, I mean, LinkedIn, I find is an amazing resource and you can see who else may know them and that could introduce you.
[00:12:23] Mathilde: Yeah.
[00:12:24] Juliet: We all know that firsthand introduction will probably have more weight.
[00:12:27] Mathilde: Exactly.
[00:12:28] Juliet: we hate talking about some networking.
[00:12:30] Juliet: I'd much rather call it dot connecting. If you're looking at who, you know, you know, who may know other people that can always help.
[00:12:38] Mathilde: And not being afraid, because when I was looking at my list, I was like, Oh my God, it's such big names. I don't know if I'm going to be able to reach them. And then you quickly realize that, uh, It's kind of a small world, so you kind of figure out that you always know someone that might know someone
[00:12:55] Juliet: Uh, don't be afraid to ask. I think this is definitely something I learned the hard way when I [00:13:00] left Chanel, where you didn't need anybody's help because you had megawatt
[00:13:03] Mathilde: Yes.
[00:13:04] Juliet: you just got on with it. Suddenly you're in a, in an environment where I went into the travel sector where budgets were quite tight and you have to get really nimble at collaborating and asking for help.
[00:13:15] Juliet: And if you put your hand up. What's the worst that's going to happen? Someone's just going to go, no. And I've now found that on the flip side, I find it really hard to say no. And actually sometimes you need to protect your time, but lots of people want to help. So if you don't ask, you don't get, it's for sure something you learn in any aspect of business.
[00:13:32] Mathilde: Yes. And I think with angels, you realize that it's an ecosystem. And so even if someone you had in mind maybe says no, but then they can connect you to someone else that you either didn't know or didn't think about. So again, as an entrepreneur, you have to. Ask and try and like you, of course you get a lot of no's, but then you might get a very good.
[00:13:57] Mathilde: Yes. So
[00:13:58] Juliet: Exactly. And I think that's [00:14:00] something else that's come through on every podcast episode is you've got to be completely fine with no and
[00:14:04] Mathilde: Yes,
[00:14:05] Juliet: and that's a daily, hourly occurrence of, Oh God, you're going to have crises all the time, that's totally normal. And you're going to have awful days at work.
[00:14:13] Juliet: And I think it's kind of quite interesting how the entrepreneurial world has marketed itself as this kind of glossy, autonomous freedom. And
[00:14:21] Juliet: everyone who's actually in it is like, like, no, that's not true.
[00:14:25] Juliet: Um,
[00:14:26] Juliet: so when it comes to approaching Asian investors, are there common mistakes that you've seen founders make?
[00:14:32] Juliet: Sort of big no no's.
[00:14:33] Mathilde: When approaching an angel investor you have to Always keep in mind. It's not their daily job. I mean Maybe now some of them are super wealthy and do only, uh, investor, but most of the angels I know, like they have a job, they have a company, and so again, they do that on the side. So you have to keep in mind that they don't have a lot of time and that you have to be [00:15:00] super Effective and like precise and ask what you want, really ask what you need, what you want, what you expect from them.
[00:15:08] Mathilde: And again, understand that, uh, they are not VCs. So it's their own money. So it's, there is a lot of, again, um, affective. Emotions in the relationship you are going to build together. So make sure it's not just about the money, that you are able to create a bond and a link, uh, between the two of you.
[00:15:36] Juliet: What has raising angel investment done for your brand? What's it enabled you to do that you couldn't have done had you not got it?
[00:15:43] Mathilde: Um, that's a good question. When we created M, , we wanted to build, um, profitable business and that's what we did. So when you are profitable, you might think, okay, so you don't need any extra fund. But when we went to enjoy the investor, it [00:16:00] was.
[00:16:00] Mathilde: Not so much about the money, but a lot had to do with making sure we had a strong network of, um, entrepreneurs and advisor that could really help us making the right decision. Um, It is not to say that you are not going to make mistakes because we've made quite a lot in five years, but as an entrepreneur, it's day to day, uh, it's a lot of subjects to tackle and sometimes it's really hard, you know, to take a step back and just have a look and go into the right direction and having these angels, they've usually gone through what, um, you are going through at the moment.
[00:16:44] Juliet: They're sympathetic and they can support you in your moment of need. Yeah.
[00:16:47] Mathilde: And it's really helpful. It has a lot of value for a company.
[00:16:52] Juliet: For you, it sounds like you made the executive decision not to go after VC and you focus on angels because you wanted that [00:17:00] mentorship, that advisory board, you wanted to have access to them and their brains and their experience and potentially how they could support your business. It's really interesting because a lot of people just assume you do angel before you go on to VC and then you, but actually for you, you're very comfortable staying with angels and the right ones.
[00:17:18] Mathilde: And I think to circle back on your question, we started with small amount and then the same angels when we raised again, they put a lot more money. So it's to show that you can raise money with only angels and you can raise big amounts like if they really follow you and
[00:17:38] Juliet: Well, they get to
[00:17:38] Juliet: know you and.
[00:17:40] Juliet: See the successes that you're making and trust you in the, it's a two way street. The trust is built and they see the progress of the business and they're like, right, we're comfortable to put more in. So we often say that with clients that less is more actually, if you're more invested in some core great clients that rather than spreading yourself too thinly, it's similar, I imagine with investors, it's, it's less people to answer to, [00:18:00] but just the right amount that can all help you.
[00:18:02] Mathilde: Yeah, exactly. And I think also with the big difference with Angel is that they understand the long term vision and like they are not so much. Uh, okay. So we invested in like in three years or five years. We want to have that back. I think there are more understanding that, okay. They are putting money in your company, but maybe. You don't exactly know what is going to happen and it's a bit less pressure in a way. Um, and it's more healthy for entrepreneurs
[00:18:32] Juliet: not pushing the exit, they have a long term view. Well, I guess this, again, if they're closer to your business and they understand it, they can see the potential for the long term view as well. Yeah. My day job when I'm not a podcast host is communications and PR. So that relationship building, those dialogues with people, whether it be press, clients, employees.
[00:18:52] Juliet: Investors, it's all so important when you're growing a business and that sounds like a really nice way of doing it. [00:19:00] You've got this support network around you. You've got your back and cause they have a vested interest, but they genuinely want it to succeed from a personal level. And something that we do with our guests is there's a question from our previous guest, who's the founder of Followback, uh, this amazing space age material company in London, Soho,
[00:19:19] Juliet: he is. Sixties into his brand as well, but he's had some very big highs and quite significant lows and challenges in his business. But his question, he said he would like to know, uh, when this person is looking back on your life, what would be the thing that you are most proud that you have built
[00:19:37] Mathilde: Oh, wow.
[00:19:38] Juliet: is a big question.
[00:19:39] Mathilde: that's a big question because how it's going to say, like, if you ask me. Of course, I'm so proud of Em and everything we've done, but I think as a mom and everything, like, I would say, of course, it's what I will remember most, like, it's my family and like how proud I am of my kids and like being able [00:20:00] to have this family and of course my business,
[00:20:03] Juliet: it's interesting you say that cause he went on to say. I bet you anyone answering that question, it won't just be about work because work is so important. But when you're in the thick of it, you realize there has to be stuff outside of work to keep being enthused about work. It can't all be all encompassing all the time.
[00:20:20] Juliet: So I think you'll like your answer.
[00:20:22] Mathilde: Yeah.
[00:20:23] Juliet: And do you have a question for the next guest? It could be anything about starting a company, raising investment, anything you like.
[00:20:30] Mathilde: Yeah, I would love to ask them, would they do it again, like Oliver, again? Would
[00:20:37] Juliet: Oh, that's a good one.
[00:20:39] Mathilde: So if they know what is going to happen, would they really do it?
[00:20:44] Juliet: So many guests have said, had you told me today what I would have had to have done to get here today, there is absolutely no way I would have done it. Not a chance
[00:20:53] Mathilde: Yes.
[00:20:53] Juliet: and ignorance is bliss when you don't know what you don't know. I mean, every day I come across something new. It's like, Oh, that's today's [00:21:00] challenge.
[00:21:00] Juliet: Great. Um, but you have no idea what trials and tribulations can be thrown at you. And I think if you rationally looked at it up front, you go, no, that's a terrible decision. But bit by bit when it's meted out and it's not all thrown at you at once, you can overcome them. And the challenges you overcome are super interesting.
[00:21:16] Juliet: And you learn so much from it. And. Yeah, I think every founder I've spoken to has been so humble about that, that it is a challenge, but you grow from it and you learn from it and ultimately you're better for it. But yeah, the rational brain at the beginning would have been like, no,
[00:21:31] Juliet: don't do that. Thank you so much.
[00:21:35] Juliet: Have you got any last golden nugget pieces of advice you'd like to offer a new founder to start or scale a business?
[00:21:40] Mathilde: yeah maybe just one advice because we are talking about angels and money and investment is that if you don't need, like, I mean, if you have a successful business and if you don't need to. Check an investment. Like don't take it like, I think it's important to say because when you hear a [00:22:00] lot of success story and when you read about business and you feel like everyone is raising money, but it's also important to say that maybe you don't need to raise money and, it's not something that everyone has to do.
[00:22:14] Juliet: Just for the bragging rights. Yeah. Be okay with your
[00:22:16] Juliet: success as it is. Yeah.
[00:22:18] Mathilde: So, I mean, good for you, like, if you don't need to take an investment, don't, uh, um,
[00:22:25] Juliet: it.
[00:22:25] Mathilde: exactly, exactly.
[00:22:26] Juliet: People say it's another full time job when you go through
[00:22:29] Juliet: raising and I really slash fortunately haven't ever had to do it. I was made redundant. I opened my laptop, I started a business and it's just grown
[00:22:35] Juliet: um, and, I'm surrounded in this coworking place of other people going through series and big raises. And I was like, I get why they're doing it, but I've had to have real words of myself year three of like, what do I want to achieve with my business? What does success look like to me? Do we want to be a bigger team than we are already?
[00:22:51] Juliet: Probably not. I'm actually quite happy as it is. And I think knowing. What you're trying to do and what that success metric is, is so hard to [00:23:00] find, but really important to do the work on because then you're at peace with it. And you're not thinking imposter syndrome is like, I should be doing this. I should be doing that because it take up too much brain power.
[00:23:08] Juliet: And you don't have time for that.
[00:23:10] Mathilde: yes,
[00:23:11] Juliet: Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today. It's been wonderful chatting to you. Thank you for listening to How To Start Up. I hope these conversations offer you some confidence, encouragement and reassurance that you're on the right track If you enjoy this podcast I'd be so appreciative if you were to rate review and subscribe as it will really help other people starting a company discover