2 How to manage your mental health, Matt Johnson

In this episode, I’m joined by Broadcaster & Mental Health Ambassador, Matt Johnson for a grounded, practical conversation about letting go of archetypes and expectations and instead getting honest about who you are, where your patterns come from, and how to forgive yourself and start again with intention. 

We talk about purpose, motivation and self-doubt, why kindness to yourself is not optional, and how - particularly if you’re self-employed - you can create your own validation. Matt shares practical ways to regulate your mental health, from journalling and movement to breathwork, meditation, nature and switching off screens, and why being proactive with these tools doesn’t just prevent burnout, but makes life easier and happier overall.

Matt's advice: 

• Don’t be concerned with archetypes, be what you want to be
• Face up to what you are - and work out why, where things come from
• Then forgive yourself
• Start again: what do you want?
• Try to be more purposeful, better motivated
• Ignore the self-doubts and be kind to yourself
• If you’re self-employed (no appraisal, no Christmas party) try to find substitutes for these things
• Provide your own validation, remind yourself of your own worth
• When things don’t work out, don’t always blame yourself
• Find out how to regulate your mental health, what works for you (journalling/yoga/breathwork/meditation/nature/no screens)
• Be proactive about using these coping mechanisms
• Impose boundaries and stick to them (especially with social media)
• This will a) prevent burnout and b) make life easier and happier!

FF&M enables you to own your own PR & produces podcasts.
Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2025 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason.  Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason. 

MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod. Link &  Licence

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Speaker: matt Johnson is an absolute superstar and In today's episode, he talks about all things mental health and why this particular period of the year is really hard for quite a lot of people. There's a ton of marketing campaigns. Out there telling you you must be having the best time of the year and you get all this time off.

But when you run a company that is not the case. So we wanted to share 12 days of Christmas, this special miniseries to help you with your health and wellness.

We talk. All things mental health of Matt, how to manage yours. He gives some really amazing advice as to what he's learned from his own experiences with this. 

Matt Johnson: hello, lovely. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Hi, lav. How are you?

Matt Johnson: I'm all right. I'm all right. You're 

Juliet Fallowfield: in Wales. 

Matt Johnson: I am in Wales. Yeah. Yeah. Um, my, my father bless him, has just had a hip replacement . So my mother's been looking after my father and my grandmother, so I had work postponed this morning, so I was like, get to Wales so they can go out. So they're currently in some sort of sandwich [00:01:00] place, having some peace and quiet together, which is quite nice. So I'm holding Fort. 

Juliet Fallowfield: well done. Good, family ing there. 

Matt Johnson: Yeah. I deserve really good Christmas presents now. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yes, this is true. And I can't believe it's the 8th of December and it's crazy, isn't it? It's nuts. But also, I can't believe that last time we chatted, it was three years? Ago.

So I think we recorded like November, December 22. Jesus.

Matt Johnson: Jesus Christ. 

Juliet Fallowfield: I tell you what time flies. 

Matt Johnson: How have you changed in three years? What's happened? 

Juliet Fallowfield: Oh, well, I've got more gray hair. Yeah, more wrinkles. I'm aging. I'm about to hit 40 fucking five and have to say that. 'cause when I turned 30 fucking three, my mom gave me a cake iced around the top and said, happy 30 fucking third.

And it was great. Jesus Christ. Okay. 

Matt Johnson: Killer. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. I mean, I kept talking about that and like in three years, lots has changed, but not much has changed.

Still not good with boundaries. Okay. Propensity to kind of. Work and work and work and then realize, okay, I should probably have stopped to look after my mental health. Okay. not as good [00:02:00] as I'd like to be right. But i'm better at rolling with the punches. 

Matt Johnson: Okay. 

Juliet Fallowfield: And going, you know what? Self-employment, it's a rollercoaster. every guest, 140 episodes, everyone's like, it's a rollercoaster. Be okay with responsibility. Like, I'm not okay with it. I accept it and I'm rolling with it.

Matt Johnson: , Embrace the quiet moments. 'cause when it's busy, it's really busy. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yes, and this year I feel like I've had a bit of a gap year 'cause it's been lovely. I've been sort of paddling along with my team hang on. Now 

Matt Johnson: in this three years, you've moved out of London as well?

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, yes. There's another dramatic change that I decided to sell my flat and moved to the countryside. 

Matt Johnson: Now was that for personal? I need to get the fuck out of London. Reasons. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yes, that was, I'm not happy in a big city anymore. Mm-hmm. I need some space. I need some peace and quiet. so to be an hour on the train outside of London and so I walk 10 minutes to the station through a churchyard lovely church, cobbled stones down past the river, across a bridge, say hello to everyone. I [00:03:00] meet, I get on the train and an hour and 10 I'm in Paddington and where you go into fight mode and everyone's like, do not look at me in the eye and do not talk to me and like, like.

So 

Matt Johnson: you're controlling what you can. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yes. 

Matt Johnson: And you've listened to yourself when you needed to kind of, take some time, take a step away to be more productive, are you more productive in work in that sense? 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. A friend called me out on it 'cause it took me a year to find the house and I was determined to live in this village 

And they were like, you're gonna have to compromise. You're gonna, I was like, no. It's gonna be there. And it was actually a, some glib comment after a festival. I said, right, by this time next year, I'm gonna move to Bury and I've gone to an Antarctic. And then I realized actually getting to the Antarctic was way easier than buying a house in the cots walls when, but yeah, it, it's given me more structure.

It's given me. I know it sounds very cliche, but much more in tune with nature and the seasons. I don't mind winter as much. I used to really struggle with the dark and the MLE of someone called it earlier and seeing nature do its thing and it goes in [00:04:00] cycles. I feel much more at peace with that and the, the highs of the kind of garden coming to life in the spring.

I've got gardening in my life, which I now love. Oh, amazing. And my mom, mom's like, you've changed. I'm like, 

Matt Johnson: we've bonded over that and pointing out that I managed to replant some weeds really neatly.

Juliet Fallowfield: I'm like, great. 

Matt Johnson: Do you, do you think if you could change anything, would you have done this earlier? 

Juliet Fallowfield: Uh, oh. It's so interesting 'cause I always ask podcast guests that it's like, no, I wouldn't change a thing 'cause I wouldn't be here today If I did. Yeah, I probably would actually. I buying a house in England is horrible.

If I could have just magic wands through that stress. '. And a friend called me out, she said, uh, so car jewels, think about this. You are changing the one stable thing in your life. You are flat, you've been in for 10 years and batey, so you are gonna rip. That bandaid off. It's the one stable thing.

Work, love, life, family life. Everything else is up in the air. Yeah. And I was like, yes. 'cause it's gonna help with all of the other things. It's gonna help stabilize . So yeah. Now , I wake up to an owl occasionally, not sirens. [00:05:00] That's pretty awesome. I have a really lovely commute, a, you're closer to 

Matt Johnson: Wales.

Juliet Fallowfield: Very much closer to Wales. 

Well, out here there's less, manic ness.Do you 

Matt Johnson: feel like you've like returned back to who you were supposed to be? 

Juliet Fallowfield: I'm getting there. I think it's a work in progress, and this is something I learned from your first episode actually, is that it's, it's constantly moving, changing. It's never finished. You've just gotta kind of keep moving forward. Like a lot of people are like, you can't move to the countryside.

You don't have a husband, you don't have pets, and you have no children. What are you doing? Oh my 

Matt Johnson: God. Who said that? 

Juliet Fallowfield: So many people. It's very judgy out there. 

Matt Johnson: Well, do you think that's a reflection of their judgment of someone else or just their fear of them doing it themselves? 

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, I think it's a stereotype of like, will you leave London when you've got all the tick boxes and you need more space?

It's like, no, you leave London when you are in your forties and you want some peace and quiet and I really wanted to belong to something and I think London, I lost that. We coming self-employed to going to coworking offices, which we also talked about in our first episode.

You're an [00:06:00] anchor list. There's no structure or. Someone expecting you to be somewhere at a particular time. And I miss that. So coming to a smaller village where people know who I am, as much as there's a few raised eyebrows of, what are you doing here on your own? 

Matt Johnson: Like Cameron Diaz in the holiday 

When she's clacking around in the cottage environment, that's, it's kind of like, yeah. Two worlds colliding, isn't it? 

Juliet Fallowfield: Well that and also wardrobe. I've still got London clothes. I dunno what people wear out here. 

Matt Johnson: In London, you can com blissfully avoid somebody for forever. 

Juliet Fallowfield: But you have to 

Matt Johnson: connect, I think, in the country. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Well this is the pro and the con. 'cause I wanted the connection in the community and I've got a connection in the community and everybody knows your business, which is kind of fine until you might ruffle a feather here and there.

I went on a date once with someone. He walked me home and snuggled me on my doorstep and he's like, your neighbors? I'm like, yeah, all 85. And they're all looking, I think, and they, 

Matt Johnson: that's um, I bet you brought some wonderful entertainment.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, yes, it's an interesting change,

But how about [00:07:00] you in the last three years? How are you doing with stuff 

Matt Johnson: I was just doing it so I don't talk anymore. I just ask questions. 

Juliet Fallowfield: I was gonna say, this feels very much like the roles have been reversed. 

Matt Johnson: I, I don't give anything away anymore. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Right. Okay. So this is my thing. So it's been great 

Matt Johnson: talking to you. Have a lovely day. Um, I'm not getting away that 

Juliet Fallowfield: easily. 

Matt Johnson: My three years, uh, wow. It's been, I'm probably up 15 different people since that time and when we spoke, um. I've continued my kind of exploration of my own mental health and, um, in the aid to kind of understand others and, and to kind of build on that.

I've, I've lent into coaching more. I've kind of worked on that a lot to, to try and understand people. I love people and, um, and I think 

Juliet Fallowfield: good with people. 

Matt Johnson: I, I hope so. I hope I listen enough. 'cause that's what I need for myself, I need, I need to be seen as such. [00:08:00] So I hope I can provide that space for people.

And it's been good, I think over that three years, of course, we were in 2022 then, so we're not far out of lockdown. So work has gradually picked back up, you know, back on Good Morning Britain and daytime television, which has been really fun to revisit that world again from a new perspective. I'm just, you know, I'm happier, I would say, in my own skin.

Speaker: Yeah. 

Matt Johnson: Which is all I've ever wanted. Really. 

Speaker: Yeah. And 

Matt Johnson: I think it's in line with what we were just talking about, about not worrying about what anybody else is doing. Not fitting into an archetype of who I should be at this age, or who a man should be, and mm-hmm. I've listened to who I am. I've done that work, I've worked out that process and that method, I've embodied it and I've, um, embedded it and I, and I'm living it now.

And it takes a while to kind of, for all of it, to percolate and for all of it to kind of, I've paid a lot of money for change. I've done a lot of work. [00:09:00] It's, it's like, 

Juliet Fallowfield: it's 

Matt Johnson: work. It's hard. It's work. Like facing the worst parts of you? Yeah, constantly. I'd rather not, rather not. It's like 

Juliet Fallowfield: the physio and they press on the knot and then it presses harder.

This kind of work is the hardest fricking knot. Yeah. And it

Matt Johnson: hurts because there's certain mentalities that we have and certain , behavioral, um, patterns and. Neurological pathways that aren't ours, and you have to unpick 'em. You have to work out why they're there. You have to look at where your family, uh, paid influence and society integrated their own belief systems that weren't yours and created this.

Person that necessarily isn't you. And it wasn't me. So it's taken a long time to kind of unravel that. Yeah. And to work with it, to understand it. Forgive a lot of it. Forgive myself for a lot of things. And that means really facing the darker parts. And I, you know, I, you, as you know, I've been through some really [00:10:00] dark moments and, um, forgiving myself for that has probably been one of the hardest things in the entire world.

And that compassion and understanding has. Then being the starting point of like, okay, then who the, who the hell am I? What do I like? 

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, you unpick it, but then you have to build it back up again. 

Matt Johnson: You gotta start again. Like, and, and then of course you, you still have to have that old you on you in you around you, and you listen to it.

You understand it, you, you understand it's there, you get ahead of it. Um, for example, if you want to do something new. Your brain will always say, don't do that. You're not good enough. You don't deserve to be in that world. And then you've gotta always fight and wrangle past that and then do the thing that's scary and that's a constant thing.

So I think that's where I am with it. I'm living and activating new. Neurological pathways and patterns alongside the old, murky dark ones that want me to keep small and be scared, [00:11:00] and I'm trying to do things with a better motivation and more purposeful and trying to navigate my life with my old jobs and my friends and life that I have with this new.

Ideology of who I am and the new blueprint of my, my brain as such. So I mean, yeah, not much. I haven't been up too much in three years, and what's nice is that, I mean, you're just the same, really. It's just, you just do things with a bit more. Purpose. And like you said earlier, like a few more boundaries are in place and, and then it's still life and still life hits you and you have to deal with it.

And I suppose I'm not, I'm not as unkind to myself as I once was. 

Juliet Fallowfield: I'm so pleased to hear you say this. 'cause I also think, and you do a lot around this, that men don't often talk about. The vulnerabilities of mental health. And actually it's so important that we all do and we're, especially when you start and run a business, how much it takes from you.

And yes, it [00:12:00] gives you a lot as well, but I wanted to chat to you three years on not to, because we are about to come into Christmas, a new year. Yeah. And it's a really shit time of year for a lot of people. Yeah. And a lot of, there's a lot of marketing going. You've got to have the best time ever with your family that you love so much, 'cause you've got a loving family.

That's not true for a lot of people. Mm. And especially when you are a self-employed person or a solopreneur or freelance, you don't have someone giving you a Christmas party or a bonus. Your business carries on. You are exhausted. You are meant to be taking. So there's a lot of pressure on this time of year.

Yeah. So

what would you suggest people do over this period to look after themselves? 

Matt Johnson: I mean, what you just said, it was really interesting about, um, people that are self-employed. So let's start with them. Like, and I'm self-employed too, and yeah, you don't have an appraisal, you don't have necessarily a staff Christmas party.

And I think what's really wonderful about that, that [00:13:00] awareness is that maybe you should. Do these pats on your back. Give yourself a treat. Uh, you know, buy yourself a present. Um, get together with other self-employed people and have a works Christmas party. You know, because these milestones are really important.

Like validation as much as I hate it, is a big part of business. 'cause it's transactional, right? I put the work in, I get the thing back, I'm in the job. I need my, my management to tell me if I'm doing a good job or not. Either I'll know. With an appraisal, which you should have in business from like twice a year or something like a, like a roundup or you have a, a promotion or whatever.

There's physical things that change in your life where you have a significant moment, where you know where you are, where you stand, and when you're self-employed. You just gotta do that for yourself 

Juliet Fallowfield: do it every day. The resilience you need constantly. Yeah. Yeah. Your socks and push yourself and , if you're managing the team, you are the one that has to keep going and keep positive [00:14:00] and no one's gonna pick you up.

So I think you are so right. Yeah. Of create it for yourself. 

Matt Johnson: I'm in, uh, a d different type of industry, but it's very similar. You don't only as good as your last game, right? Uh, but unfortunately you could be amazing and you could not get called back ever.

And that's how it works. It's not, it's not always about how good you are, it's about timing. It's about somebody else doing it and the right person, wrong time, right person, right time, and then it always is reliant on how you react to that. So, and I've experienced that a lot in my career where. I thought is I've done a really good job there.

Like for the one time I've gone, I nailed that. And then you just don't get the call. And then instead of being, treating that as an, as an observation or as that, as a, as a appraisal, like, ah, couldn't have been that good. You have to remember your own instinctive credentials. Your your own instinctive, um.

[00:15:00] Marks of for your performance. And if you feel like you've done well, and you did your best, then you have to stick with that. You have to own that. If you truly believe that you can't be seeking somebody else's validation. In this business world, it's the same as mine, like it's so fickle.

Money is there one minute and money is gone the next minute. And somebody might call you to say, Hey, I've got this thing for you, and it's, you are perfect, or This business idea and this wonderful, and they just fall away. And nobody will give you a, an answer or a reason or a explanation. And that's not your fault.

And that's one of the things that I've learned is that you, you literally have to self-manage, tell yourself that you're doing very well. And remind yourself of your worth constantly. And like I say, you know, ha, I, I'll often do it like, you know, just, you know, I've been freelance now since 2010. You know, it's, it is a long time and, uh, and it's taken me a long time to kind of be my own cheerleader.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah., It's really hard and I think [00:16:00] that's it. You, you have to accept, you're gonna have down days as well. You can't be unrealistic. You can't be perfect every day. You can't be upbeat every day. You are human. Especially what I'm now coming up for six years with my business. In any job, you're gonna have bumps in the road, even ones you make up for yourself.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. 

Juliet Fallowfield: What will you suggest that founders do to help their resilience, especially over this top time of year? 

Matt Johnson: Um, 

Always like, I mean, it's really difficult to give advice in an industry, in a world that mm-hmm doesn't really believe in what I believe in. It doesn't give you an opportunity for self-reflection and stopping and calm because it's a beast.

If you're a, if you are in this world, startups and all that, what people want you to be is combative and ferocious and hustle. So what I believe in doesn't really sit in line with that world, but, um, so I would say stop doing it and leave and go and live in the [00:17:00] mountains. However. However, that's not good advice.

You can't just do that. It is unrealistic. And whilst you are in that world, I believe you've gotta work with what you have and work with where you are and, and I'm in that world too. I'm a hypocrite. I work in television. The worst for mental health. It encourages you at all times to be scared and to seek validation and to people please.. However, working with what is in front of you is very important. So taking that time as you have done, take that time for yourself.

Working out what you need for yourself is super important. 'cause somebody else is relaxing. Technique or tool might be not the right one for you. Like I know that man. Struggle with meditation and yoga and stuff, but like going for a walk in, in nature is really important. And, and taking that time, taking yourself away from the screen and knowing that you need to do that often as much as you possibly can.

And 

Juliet Fallowfield: it's that regulation 

Matt Johnson: well, I always think as well, and I believe this to be true, like if you want to take on new information or be busy. [00:18:00] You need to be coming from a very grounded standpoint, so even as a matter of a tactic.

To be better in a board meeting, you need that 20 minutes of meditation or relaxation or regulation for you to be better and for you not to be burned out and therefore not be maybe as good as your job. You need to set up precautions for you to perform better. So I try and do this with the check, check-in and frontline stuff that we do.

We try to go into businesses and train up mental health first aid to create safe spaces, to create safe environments where people can. Be proactive about their mental health before it gets too late, before burnout happens. And that's really important. So if you don't have the, tools and you don't have the, the regulation tools in your basket, like get them, like really, really get some and, and put them, uh, as much as maybe the gym is good for you and you need to be, have a workout in the morning, get up and have a shower, maybe a cold [00:19:00] plunge, what people do all the bloody time, like whatever it is.

As long as you're choosing something for the right reasons, and that's to get you into your own body and you're putting yourself in a situation where you are caring for yourself. I think that's very, very important and obviously downtime as well. You know, I spent a long time drinking. And thinking that was like my own special time for myself.

But actually it was kind of a false, uh, flag. It was a, it was a really short-lived, really, um, me meditative state. It was a short-lived, it's almost like a mask, 

Juliet Fallowfield: isn't it? 

Matt Johnson: Mask on, on an issue that I was, I was living with. I wasn't able to. Hold my feelings. Well, like in my world, you get really frustrated and angry with people and you get annoyed with yourself.

Live television, your central nervous system is wild, and if you haven't got that managed. It's very dangerous. And that's when I realized it can show up in your body, in your skin with ailments and colds and your, your immune system's low [00:20:00] and all that. So find out what you can do to regulate what works for you, whether it's journaling, walking, breath work, meditation, yoga, talking, playing darts, whatever, whatever it is.

And, and it could be anything. It could be like I need to go to the football once a week and yell. Do it. You know, like do it like whatever it is nobody's asking you as I'm talking to men now as well. Nobody's asking you to not be a man and not to be manly. We're ask, we're asking you to be more human and expand and be a bit more vulnerable.

And that doesn't mean being weak. That means listening to your body and doing what's right for it and therefore everyone else around you, everybody wins when you are proactive with your mental health. Yourself and your own business if you choose to live in the fire like we've done, right? Not for long. I, I'm gonna move to the country too.

I can't bear it. I'm start, I'm starting to listen to my body and I, I think it all starts to change. And when you start listening and [00:21:00] start being proactive and you start being kind and compassionate to yourself, it all starts to develop and change. And then you. Start living a more, more harmonious life, or at very least the life that you've chosen is a little bit easier to manage.

And I think that's incredibly important. And of course, you know, to founders that are, are watching this, and to anybody that's in this mel melting pot of a job, same if you work in kitchens and anything, it's a high tempo, right? Your central nervous system is all over the place. Some people call it like chakras are out of line on all that type of stuff.

It's out of alignment. You're not performing at your best ability. So when you are doing these things and you're listening to your body, that's a really good time for some self-reflection, and I reckon therapy's a really good idea in that time, or at least some sort of talking therapy where you can offload not onto your partner.

You talk to your partner about stuff. But 

Juliet Fallowfield: yeah, they're always biased though, and [00:22:00] they're not a mental health expert. 

Matt Johnson: I think a mental health expert is always a good idea to go to. Yeah. And otherwise, you know, if you do rely on your partner and your friends, that becomes codependency and that's never good.

That's not sexy either. So when you have those. Coping, calming, regulating mechanisms in place. Uh, and, and you utilize them and you put habits in place. So you do them often, you, your life will, you know, change hopefully for the better. And then when you are regulated more, then it's. You know, a really good opportunity to talk to somebody.

And this might be some other stuff, some other validation stuff that pop up, like attachment styles. Why we choose to be in a relationship like we have with our work or with partners. Why are they all very similar? Why do I keep chasing this love? That's none of my business. But that is a therapist's job to work on that stuff, and that's another level.

So. 

Juliet Fallowfield: When you are running your own business or you're self-employed, the overwhelm and the busyness is [00:23:00] almost enough. But how I've sort of hacked it and rationalize doing the work is I'm more efficient at work, I'm more rested, so I'm better at work.

My team get more from me. I get more from me. Yeah. I actually like my day more when I'm more. To use the expression regulated and I enjoy my life more. And who doesn't want that? And when I don't do it, like I remember one colleague saying, you haven't gone to the gym this morning, have you? And I'm like, how do you know?

She's like, I know. And I was like, oh God, I owe you the gym session. But Also the meditation, , the calmer side of thing, not the kind of go, go, go. Burn, burn, burn. Yeah. It's fuel up. And thank you for listing all those modalities because we're about to run the health and wellness season again.

And that's all of the topics, so, oh, no way. Okay. Good. Like mobility, breath work, nutrition, all of the good stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, because you don't need to do them all. You just need to find one or two things that, you know, help you , as a minimum. Because if you aren't doing that for you, and someone else said this in [00:24:00] another episode, if you are not looking after yourself, you're not looking after your business, you are running a red light on your business.

. I'm guilty of this. If you hold your business with more respect and you hold yourself, do it for the business because you are part of that, and then inadvertently you'll look after yourself as well. Yeah, why do you think men struggle particularly more than women? 

Matt Johnson: Um, I think it's an emotional intelligence.

I think it's, uh, an emotional awareness. Uh, an awareness of. Your emotions is incredibly important and, and as well with men. Forever, since the dawn of time, that's not been required of them. There's only been a few requirements like protection and , um, being the provider and all those things. It's been very limited and on what we are seeing over particularly our era and, and in this time now, I think more things have been asked of men as well as being.

A provider as such,, [00:25:00] and a, , protector. Uh, people are asking them to be a little bit softer, a little bit more, um, open a bit more vulnerable at times. And, and I think that's very difficult for men. And, and I found it very difficult myself, as, you know, I, I really suffered with my mental health, um, and I suffered silently.

And that's the thing. Men are dying because of silence. Not because of softness and what I've experienced in my own life when I've not told anybody about my stuff, when I've not had these mental health tools in place and I've kept it all to myself. 'cause I shouldn't. 'cause I should be a man and just get on with it.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, man and vet in commas. Yeah. 

Matt Johnson: Yeah, totally. I'd just be, just that's, I think that's what was in my head at all times. It nearly killed me. I would rather. That voice that saying, you're not good enough. You're a piece of shit. You should be better. Why can't you just get up and get on with it? Why can't you just move forward?

You've got, you've got the worse people off than you. All this negative [00:26:00] cynicism and and stigma that I was living and the needy killed me, and it's killing men in their millions every single year. One man every minute around the world dies because of suicide. Eight out of 10 suicides are men. And it's devastating the landscape of men.

And there's obviously lots of reasons for that. One of the main reasons is that reason that men can't and don't feel like they can be more, they can't open up, they can't be aware of their emotions and tell and share people their feelings and admit that there's something going on, on something wrong.

And I completely understand historically why, why men have been put in this position. But. What's wonderful, and I think what's happened with women and, and it's particularly even in my, my, my gener my lifetime and my mother's lifetime, like feminism and equality has been such a wonderful thing, creating expansion for all women, hopefully more, and hopefully that's not going backwards, but, [00:27:00] you know, it's, it's been a positive change and also.

I think that's being asked of men too. Women are maybe asked to be harder and, and men are asked to be softer and I dunno what that means or whatever, but. I, I genuinely believe we are in a wonderful place for change, real change where I work with men all the time. 

 and we are living in this wonderful period of time where we can be. Expansive and work out who we are as a human being instead of pretending to be rocky from the film, , or pretending to be like my dad used to be. Or, or, or like a man should be.

Like, those ideologies don't work. They have, they haven't been working. And Men are taking their lives more than ever. And this is one of the reasons, one of the major reasons is men can't open up and I think for a long time men have been afraid of toxic masculinity. Our guards up, am I wrong?

Is men being wrong? I [00:28:00] think people have misinterpreted what toxic masculinity actually means. And I think from a very interesting standpoint, I would like to kind of open up the conversation and say, no, nobody's telling you you're wrong. It's, we've been asked to expand and to be more, self.

self-aware and kinder to ourselves and therefore more compassionate, more empathetic. Instead of this elbowy race to the top capitalistic, dare I say, yeah, match show way of being the winner, the breadwinner, the, the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I

Whereas like if we wanted to go back in time and look at communities and see how they worked.

Yes. The, the biggest and the ones that could, you know, chase after the coyote or whatever, they would find a kill, 

Juliet Fallowfield: but they weren't taking gym selfies and putting it on Instagram. 

Matt Johnson: Yeah, whoever, the male or female would go out and do that part. And other people had different roles and all that type of stuff, which is really interesting.

But , the part that people forget is that the, [00:29:00] the people that went out to do the hunting and gathering, right, they came back and shared it. That's how community work. 

but the guy that gets up every morning and goes to that factory.

Drives that cab does that job that he doesn't wanna do for all of his life, for his family. For me is a hero, well also

Juliet Fallowfield: does the work on themself. So they're regulated and in a better frame of mind to do that. Absolutely, 

Matt Johnson: absolutely. And, and this is the thing like, um, there's, there's so many different types of men out there we can all exist in them and we're all individual as human beings.

And that's where I love where we are in this world. Now there's a real opportunity to really have that self exploration. It's a kind of a privilege in this western world for us to be able to do such a thing. Yeah. and lots of these techniques you can do without having to fork out lots of money.

It's, I don't, I hope it's not too much in a, um, privileged sphere. I know therapy could be a lot cheaper, 

Juliet Fallowfield: would journaling, breath work that's all free. Walking in nature, drinking water, like [00:30:00] eating healthier. There's a lot, the basic things that I hope we'll cover in this, this mini series Yeah. That will just give people one tool that they can hold onto.

Matt Johnson: I think that's it, , and those little sparks can really change everything. And, um, as a man, um, I've realized the hard way that there's much more to a human than this very small, narrow landscape of what a man is. And same for women, you know, I think as individuals looking inward and finding what works for you and really being honest with yourself about that.

And then acting on it and embodying it and living it, your life does get better and it's, you can hopefully maybe live a happier life. You can make the changes, the big changes that you made. You know, am I gonna leave the city? Am I gonna, what's gonna happen? Or what are people gonna think? You did it regardless of all those things and is worked out for you.

And I, I hate the idea of seeing [00:31:00] men, women, uh, around everywhere living this. Inauthentic life because it makes people really unhappy. It makes people suppress their real selves, and it really does perpetuate mental illness. 

Juliet Fallowfield: , We talk about mental health or mental wellness and mental ill health, and I think that's it.

It's like, who wouldn't want just an easier day in their own head, you know? Because we're the only ones inside our own minds and thoughts. Mm-hmm. And I think when you're under pressure with work, especially when you're self-employed, it's, If you know how you tick and how you function, you can find an, an ease with it and enjoy it a bit more.

Um, someone said to me recently, it's like, stop worrying about the future. It's just about today. , What makes today good? it is the most game changing piece of advice I think I had all year. It's like today it's just. Getting up, going to the gym, maybe having a nice day at work, the odd, nice conversation, cook a nice meal.

That's enough for today. Yeah. And it took so much pressure off my shoulders. So I think yeah, doing that work [00:32:00] is so, so important. what, what would you say to our listeners who are entering into this festive period, um, what would you wish for them or , want them to maybe explore over this time?

Matt Johnson: Oh wow. I think. I wish isn't just for Christmas. I'd say, I mean, I, it is the same thing as what I wish for everybody at all times. , I really would love it if, um, you listener would take some time, stop and reflect and ask yourself what do you need, who you are and what you want from this world?

And I think that's a big loaded question. And that takes a lot of time. But it starts with you. Taking that plunge and giving a damn about yourself and asking you those questions. 

Juliet Fallowfield: one last question. Go on. How, how would you manage social media in these times as a self-employed person? 

Matt Johnson: Oh, God. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Because I hate it, but I know I need it and it's necessary. Do you [00:33:00] need 

Matt Johnson: it? Need it? Um, what do you mean?

What do you mean? 

Juliet Fallowfield: I say need, because I have to look at a lot of other people's profiles to work out if our clients are gonna work with them. And then we have our own homepage as a kind of look book. People can check us out and get to know us on there. 

Matt Johnson: Yeah. 

Juliet Fallowfield: I just probably need a better boundary with it.

Matt Johnson: ' Is it only work you use it for? 

Juliet Fallowfield: Well no, 'cause it's on my phone. I then go into the doom scrolling, 

Matt Johnson: put it on your, just keep it on your laptop and have a timer on it that shuts at five 30. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. Locks you out. Okay. 

Matt Johnson: Just working hours only. And I know it's difficult 'cause I wish I could do that.

And my screen time is a nightmare. But it's, 

Juliet Fallowfield: I mean, it's pretty social media. 

Matt Johnson: We'd addicted to it. If this was wine, we'd be rattling around outside Tesco's by now. Like, it's that much of a, an addiction. Like I don't think we'd taken it as seriously as what No.

Anything that we just, we, I'm watching a film and I'm like, oh, I dunno why I'm picking it up and I'm just, and I'm doom like, what am I doing? if I needed something this much [00:34:00] as my phone, that was something like cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, sugar, I'd have a real health problem.

But because this is a phone and they want us to be on it at every given second of the day, and it's, it's kind of normalized, um, we don't take anything of it, but. 

Again, like when you are aware of like, I can't do that because that's not good for me. I implementing the habit and having that boundary. When you start there, if you can do it with social media, you can pretty much do it with anything. Uh, that's a really difficult thing to kind of actually quantify, but like, but boundaries are boundaries.

Yeah. And, and that comes with self-discipline and that self-reflection about what's really important. And sometimes habits are really hard to kind of. So like when you do take it from something that's really easy on your phone. 'cause when you go on your phone just to look at anything, I always end up on Instagram.

So I whip it off your phone, keep it on your laptop, and then have a timer on it that you can't access it unless you put in a passcode between your [00:35:00] working hours. And if you don't have working hours, you should. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yes. Boundaries. Yes. 

Matt Johnson: Boundaries. They couldn't get hold of you back in the day. Imagine. Oh, those were the days.

Juliet Fallowfield: Oh, you left the office. 

Matt Johnson: I had left the office and that was it. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Literally a few years of my career when I'd leave the office, like I'm free. And I, I never appreciated it. 'cause we didn't know it was gonna change. Yeah. And now we're like, 

Matt Johnson: now some Dick Ed can email you from Los Angeles at 12 midnight when you're out and it's on your mind.

It's on your mind all night. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. 

Matt Johnson: Oh, stop that stuff. Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Right. I'm gonna do that over Christmas. a little in the 

Matt Johnson: holiday season. Whip it off completely. Nobody cares. You, you'll be fine. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Thank you Matt. Thank you so much for your time and your, my pleasure, your kindness and your advice. And it's very generous of you to share. 

Matt Johnson: I'm very, very happy to talk to you and you're always lovely. 

Thank you for your time. 

Juliet Fallowfield: No, thank you for yours and for interviewing me. That was a new thing. 

Matt Johnson: I thought I'd try that out. It was fun. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Take care, and I'll see you soon. Come and stay. Take 

Matt Johnson: Izzy. Pardon? 

Juliet Fallowfield: [00:36:00] Come and stay whenever you like. 

Matt Johnson: I thought you just said namaste.

I was like, whatever. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Not there yet. Bye bye. Bye, love. 

Matt Johnson: Bye. Take care. Bye-bye. 

Thank you for listening to our 12 Days of Christmas from How to Start Up. 

If you have enjoyed this episode, please rate and review the show 'cause it honestly makes a massive difference to the podcast being found by other people and to me as your host. It's nice to know you'll bear. Our normal scheduling will resume in January, 2026 and we wish you a very, very merry festive season and hope you get some rest.