How to make podcasting work for your business with Samantha Cusick

Samantha Cusick is one of the most recognisable voices in hair & uses podcasting to deepen brand trust, create community, as well as accidentally open doors commercially & position herself as an authority in a crowded market.

In this episode, we unpack what podcasting really does for you as an entrepreneur once the mic is live: how it supports the brand, drives opportunity, builds long-term equity & ultimately makes you feel less lonely as a founder.  

Keep listening to hear how to use podcasting as a growth lever, not a distraction and what founders should think about before they press record.

This conversation explores: 

• Why Samantha started a podcast despite running multiple salons
• How long-form podcasting creates deeper connection than short-form social media
• The realities of podcast growth, sponsorship, and production
• How podcasting has strengthened her broader business ecosystem
• Overcoming imposter syndrome as a founder
• The importance of understanding your numbers and planning properly when starting a business
• Why founders should “just start” - even without certainty

FF&M enables you to own your own PR & produces podcasts.
Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2024 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason.  Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason. 

MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod. Link &  Licence

Transcript

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How To Start Up / Samantha Cusick

Juliet Fallowfield: [00:00:00] Today I'm joined by the award-winning hair expert, Samantha Cusick, to talk about how starting a podcast can support your business as well as build a community. Samantha is one of the most recognizable voices in hair and uses podcasting to deepen brand trust, create community, as well as accidentally open doors commercially.

Plus position herself as an authority in a crowded market. Now that all sounds like perfectly worded marketing spiel, but the truth is, Samantha started her podcast because she admits that starting a business can be really lonely. So keep listening to hear why she started the podcast when she has so many other things to do in her business, why she loves it, and what success looks like to her, 

 ultimately makes you feel less lonely as a founder. 

Samantha Cusick: at 

Juliet Fallowfield: so who are you?

Samantha Cusick: So, , award hairdresser. Four salons now, as well as a brand ambassador within the hair world for companies like Duplex, Redkin, ghd, authentic Beauty concept. [00:01:00] Hello, clean. And I also started a podcast and the Silly Little Girls Club, which launched November 14th, 2024. yeah.

Juliet Fallowfield: I think actually that is the most succinct introduction that I've ever had in all of the episodes. So you are a award-winning hairdresser, a podcast host, but very good at introducing yourself as well. You can add that to your list of

Samantha Cusick: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I, it's a very tricky one, introducing yourself because you know, when you wear so many hats, you never know what to go with. But ultimately, I'm a hairdresser. That's who I am, that's what I do. And then everything else has been like an evolution of that, if you like. Yeah.

Juliet Fallowfield: So why did you start a podcast? Because if you look at Silly Little Girls Club, you might not automatically realize that you are an expert in hair. So join the dots,

Samantha Cusick: So it's interesting because being a hairdresser, you're very much underestimated all the time. I play this game a lot with people and I say to 'em, right, think of a famous hairdresser and the first name they'll give you, I'll play with you. Think of a famous [00:02:00] hairdresser.

Juliet Fallowfield: Sam McKnight.

Samantha Cusick: It's man. Every single time.

Every single time, it's always a man. And that is really annoying because 78% of the professionals in hairdressing, especially those that own a business or manager a salon, are female and we are massively underrepresented. And I think there's a stigma around it, and that is something that I've always wanted to challenge and show people.

Externally to the industry that being a hairdresser is a valid career choice. It's an exciting career choice, and you're actually only limited by your own imagination and drive. And being How I got into hairdressing and went through all of those things and opening the salons, and now I obviously have four salons and. People just don't assume that you have that many salons and they don't take you seriously until they know your bottom line and what you're doing. And it's really annoying. And when I first started like wanting to open a salon, it was because my [00:03:00] Instagram had started to get big and take off. And I was getting followers and new requests, and I was working for another salon, and it just wasn't working.

I couldn't control the experience that my clients were having. I couldn't control the experience that I was having and it didn't sit right, so I went off to a business plan. figure out what I wanted to do and it was very challenging. And when I went to sign the lease for my first salon, I had to send over a business plan, a whole proposal, like so many things to the letting agent who took one look at it.

Didn't believe that I would be turning over what I want, what I said, even though I was self-employed in the other salon, so I know exactly my bottom line. And he called me a silly little girl that dreams too big and made me pay yeah. Unbelievable. Right?

Juliet Fallowfield: To your face or in Drew face and he's still my letting agent to this day.

Samantha Cusick: And my lease is about to expire because it's been 10 years since that happened. But that really hit home and it really drove me to be like, you know what? I'm not a silly little girl. I'm a hairdresser and I can be a [00:04:00] business woman and I can do all of these things. And that's sort of when I started taking the business aspect really seriously.

But I.

Juliet Fallowfield: nothing like a bit of anger to get a fuel.

Samantha Cusick: But that's when I started to really be like, no, I can be a hairdresser and a business woman. And even over the last 10 years there was so much more sort of underestimating and much like just a lot of challenges to overcome as a woman in business and within hair, which you would just never think. And I got me thinking about doing a podcast and you know, talking to other women that have been underestimated in their.

Fields or in their industries or in themselves. And I wanted to do like an Evergreen podcast. So something that the episodes are always relatable. 'cause I know a lot of podcasts, you know, focus on launches or they have people on that are pushing an agenda and things like that, which you know, is fine.

But for me, I wanted each episode to delve into what it was like and get real tangible advice and real like stories from these [00:05:00] women that have done extraordinary things, but never really spoke about how and why. And that's how the podcast was born. Like the idea for it And then the rest came from a chat at Soho House, which we can get into as well if you want.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well I love this, but I'm still flabbergasted that someone said that to you, but then I'm equally not surprised 'cause I grew up in PR and communications and often had CFOs wave their hand at me. Like, oh, well PR will fix this. Like, it was a magic wand. Does that, oh, and the PR girls, I'm like, I'm in my thirties.

Don't call me a. don't even put any gender like, no. So I'm not surprised, unfortunately, but I love the fact hang.

Samantha Cusick: I had double then was advertised, and he put stipulations in the contract that I had to do a certain turnover, so I had to. three times the annual rent for three consecutive years to get that extra deposit back. and I got it after year three, first three years done back. And so, yeah. And he still [00:06:00] to this day, won't even really talk to me.

He goes either through an assistant or he speaks to my other half, Greg, who has nothing to do with my business. Bizarre. Like just a misogynist.

Juliet Fallowfield: Oh God. Oh, there's so much I want to do. I think we're gonna have to do a whole series with you because there's so much in this. Because you're right. Barriers to entry to starting businesses are high and low. Takes 12 minutes on company's house, but the knowledge base is not there. And I think women are not encouraged or empowered.

I know that Alison Rose review is now being questioned, but that 250 billion, I think missing from the UK economy because women are not encouraged to start businesses at the same rate as men. I certainly didn't think I was ever gonna be self-employed. I was just made abruptly, redundant in lockdown. I was like, well, fuck you.

I'm gonna do my own thing. Then it was a culmination for me of. I had lost my father six months previous. I'd been bullied in a role 12 months before that. I was like, you know what? I work really hard and I'm really good at what I do. I'm gonna do it for myself, and now I'm kicking myself. I work so hard for other people for so long.

It's like, I wish I'd [00:07:00] save that energy for me because You need it.

Samantha Cusick: Those experiences that you wouldn't get and you wouldn't be the business owner that you are now without them. And that took me a long time to realize that having gone through all the trauma that I went through in my early career as a hairdresser, I wouldn't have built businesses that I've built now.

And so you have to kind of weigh up the positive and negatives of them, I guess.

Juliet Fallowfield: Experience at my favorite ever expression, and I saw it on the back of a lou door in a hostel on my gap year. Traveling was, experience is what you get after you've needed it. It's so true, and I thought I'd rebrand the podcast that because I am grateful for what I've learned from these other brands and the jobs I've had, but I wish I could learn.

Or do good things, not from the trampoline effect where you hit rock bottom and you get your answers. It's like, can I not do it when I'm like flying really high and going, woo-hoo, because it, you know, yeah. You, hustle. for you the podcast, you are sort of two years into it now. What has it given you?

What are the pros, the cons? Loves, hates,

Samantha Cusick: It's a one because I actually started it as I wanted a passion [00:08:00] project, so 

Juliet Fallowfield: because you haven't got enough to.

Samantha Cusick: That kind of thing now has got a team, it's got systems, it's got everything it needs to run. I love podcasts. I love listening to them and you know, I love being a guest on them and I just really wanted to do my own.

And I have such an incredible client list of people's hair that I do. So I was like, right, I only ever was gonna do it as one season. Like just to do one season, get all my clients on there, have the conversations that we have behind the chair, but have them so people can listen in a bit more of a, you know, an orchestrated setting if you like.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. No hair dryers. and I just really wanted to do it as a, like I said, a passion project. So I set about doing the one season, got all the clients in, and had it all filmed and I just loved doing it. The conversations that we had and just the way people that had listened to it came. Messaged me on Instagram or on D, say how [00:09:00] amazing they found it. Like they never knew this about that person and like just how much they'd taken from it. It made me feel really good. 'cause as a hairdresser, you always just want to make people feel their best. And this is another avenue to do that as well.

You know, the conversations that we have on the podcast are raw and real. There's nothing contrived or they sometimes go, you know. Quite deep and dark and people relate to that and they're like, oh God, it's not just me. These people that are perceived as being super successful and like really put together have the same inner turmoil as I do.

So it's given me that community and that sort of just sense of we're all in it together, which is what I really wanted.

Juliet Fallowfield: I think that's it. And I was gonna ask you why podcasting in particular. You are very good at social media and Instagram, and clearly very good at building in real life communities through your salons, your teams, your clients. Adding another thing to your plate could be seen as another stress or constraint or time commitment.

Why podcasting in [00:10:00] particular?

Samantha Cusick: I think. With social media specifically, I don't do a lot of YouTube. and social media is very short form content. It's very quick. You don't hold people's attention for very long. I think you get like three seconds, and if they're not into it, they scroll past. Whereas for me, a podcast is something I go to if I want to, you know, spend a bit of time listening and learning.

That kind of really spoke to me about doing my own podcast because that's what I sought from podcasts. But I was like, if I could give that and people must be like me wanting some longer form content and things like that. So that's what it really was about. 

 and it wasn't like it was gonna be too far away from what I was doing. I felt comfortable on camera. Yes, you do have to very much learn the art of Conversation again, but I feel like being a hairdresser behind the chair has been like 20 years of grooming to be a podcast host,

Juliet Fallowfield: I was gonna say, it reminds me of all my friends who are stylists. 'cause like we're basically therapists at the same time. 'cause you are getting someone who's quite in a vulnerable state and you are helping them move forward into a [00:11:00] position where they want to be. But they tell you everything at the same time.

So I imagine you can get stuff out of people that they didn't even realize they were gonna verbalize, which is fantastic for podcast. But I'm with you on that because podcasting is that gorgeous long form storytelling and you. You can't doom scroll a podcast. It can't be served to you. You obviously market them through social media, which we'll come onto, but it's something that you elect to go to.

And I love the fact that you're electing to have that person in your ears, and they've done studies around how information going into your ears goes into your brain in a different way to your eyes, and that your ears have 360. Views, whereas eyes only have 180. So it's a very different form.

And also the fact that I kind of, when I speak to clients, 'cause we train people how to start podcasts because it's relatively easy, but can be quite overwhelming at the same time. you're having a conversation and you know that someone's gonna eavesdrop and everybody's okay with that format. So people I find, I mean, I started mind going, I just need to.

Shit, loads of advice, how to start a business and I, started and I was like, oh God, I have no idea what I'm doing. And then started calling people for [00:12:00] advice. Didn't know how to take notes quick enough and thought I should share this. But that means to be able to share that information at scale is what's so exciting, I think, as a business owner.

But it isn't obviously just about the business, it's about those conversations. Have you ever done an episode that you've regretted thought.

Samantha Cusick: I've had episodes where you get somebody on and you think the conversation would flow, but it's challenging. and then that takes a little bit of, you know, patience and. That little bit of skill of like mirroring them and getting 'em to feel reassured to open up. but every episode I've, every guest I've had on.

Had a different story and some of them have been crazy from like one girl, who Mary we did, where she spoke about getting married in a Herman's living room during lockdown to her husband that her family didn't approve of to having like my. One of my friends Tanya talk about like her journey through YouTube and like how she's done that.

And it's just so varied and that's [00:13:00] what I love about speaking to the women is we are so powerful and we do so many different things, but there's nothing,

Juliet Fallowfield: They've all been underestimated I've all been underestimated. Everyone's had a silly little girl moment.

You are so right. You are so right with your podcast, given that you're running four salons and you I think are renovating a house as well. Am I correct? Yeah, I'm with you on that. And hence, as Matt Johnson came and and said, are you, have you been kidnapped? And I was like, no. It's like, it looks like you've kidnapped.

I was like, yes, I have our own podcast. 'cause I haven't renovated this room yet. So there's a curtain that hides all of that. it was a kind of, let's just do something rather than nothing. given that you've got a successful business, you have your fourth salons, you have an amazing team, fantastic community. What's success look like with your podcast? are you sitting down and attacking it from a business perspective, but you doing it just for the love of the conversation?

Samantha Cusick: So it's a tricky one because it started off as a passion project. So I fully self-funded the first season. 'cause we would film them in person and I have a little production team that comes [00:14:00] in and they film and edit them because I haven't got the time or the capacity to do that. Like it's. Very challenging and a lot of time consuming thingy.

So it was only ever meant to be that one season, and it went off really, really well. So season one launched, we actually managed, it's so wild to even think about how it launched. It launched it, SOHO house at White City on the rooftop with Mel C DJing, like it was one of those nights where you are like.

Juliet Fallowfield: Pinch me.

Samantha Cusick: What? Yeah, like if I ever get married, it's never gonna live up to this. Like ever like, sorry Greg, but it's not, but it was just, I had this room full of amazing people. Like everybody came to support me, like on my team from the salons, my friends, my family, and then Mel's a client of mine. So, and I couldn't believe it when I asked her and she was like, yeah, yeah, I'll do that.

And she literally came and did a set like it was. Amazing. She's an incredible woman and her episode.

So, yeah, it was only meant to be that. And [00:15:00] then I got approached, by Redkin to sponsor season two. And at that point I wasn't even considering a season two. So we picked up sponsorship for a next season, which wasn't a lot, but it paid for the company that I used to produce it, which meant I got another free go and I was really enjoying it.

So I was like, wow, I can't grumble at that. so again, I thought that was it. That was the end of it. And then season three. Got sponsored by Sephora, which

Juliet Fallowfield: Oh my God,

I get it. So if these brands would know that your audience at not only super engaged, but they are their target clients. So for them it's a no brainer. You've delivered them a whole community of people that will shop their product. and a lot of people ask me all the time about how to get sponsored.

It's like, make the podcast brilliant and sponsorship will come. So congratulations. That's huge.

Samantha Cusick: Sephora signed season four as well, so we're doing season four four as well, which is just, so when you think about like what success, like, it's like never. looking at it as a business now I kind of have to look at a bit more the data and the drilling in because we've got [00:16:00] sponsors and things like that.

but ultimately it helps my other businesses because it gives me more like profiles. So people will be like, oh, Samantha, the hairdresser. 'cause we talk about it obviously on the podcast. People know I'm a hairdresser. So then they look at the salons and then it helps, like it helps the whole ecosystem really.

Juliet Fallowfield: A hundred percent, but I love that you've come at it with. And again, when we speak to clients about starting, if there's any sort of ego involved, we're like, don't do it because no one's gonna listen. You did it 'cause you wanted other people to feel empowered to start businesses and that was the rich and the raw story within it.

And then good things have come. But if you'd gone into go like, right, this is gonna be part of our marketing strategy, it's gonna promote our salon, it probably wouldn't have worked. I love this so much. And so season four, when's seasonal four

Samantha Cusick: We're gonna start recording in April, because we're gonna do a little rebrand of like the branding I think, because it's really funny with everything in my business, it's sort of things snowball and then things get bolted on. So we're actually looking at the minute of doing like, because like you said, you would look at the podcast and not know [00:17:00] that I'm a hairdresser and anything.

So we kind of need to do a bit more of like a, an overall rebrand of everything to make sure that it's all. You look at one thing and be like, oh, that's Samantha Cusick. That's, so we've gotta do that. So we've got a bit of time before we film it in April, and then we'll release it maybe June. I think, having a little bit of a like, time to reconvene and get guests and, because what I've been doing is I film every episode over two days.

So we do like five episodes a day for two days. I'm short on time. it's very intense, but it's actually, people say it's intense, but when I'm doing hair, I could see 10 clients a day and talk to each one for an hour. So for me, it's not intense. It's actually chill. But for the people it's quite intense.

But again, like I say, being a hairdresser grooms you into a great podcast host. so that's kind of where we're at with that. So it'll be coming this year, but we're

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. I love it. You're, doing all the right things and getting your ducks in a row to dovetail into the bigger brand of Samantha Cusick. So everyone, when I started a podcast in lockdown, there was this a, b, c skit [00:18:00] in lockdown saying, we know it's really tough at the moment and life's really hard and dah, dah, dah, but whatever you do, do not start a podcast.

And so when I was like, I'm starting a business and a podcast at the same time, everyone kind of eye rolled a bit. And still now people when they say, I'm gonna start a podcast, there's a lot of people going, really, A, you gonna follow through B? Whatcha are gonna say C? How long is it gonna last? So I can now see it on the other side of fence because I'm in podcast production.

And from a comms background, I'm sort of familiar with it. But for you, what have you seen in your world at the common misconceptions around founders starting podcasts?

Samantha Cusick: That they'll instantly have an audience that you know, you know, it's tough. Like you have to make sure that you are pushing it on social media. You have to, honestly, audio only podcasts, you can't have them anymore. You need to have visuals with them because that's how people are searching and scrolling you and making sure that you have a plan and you commit to it.

Because I can't remember the stat actually at the top of my head, but there's not many podcasts that make it past four or five [00:19:00] episodes. So.

Juliet Fallowfield: They, which is such a sad thing

there's something like 3.7 million. Podcasts out there and only 330,000 active ones, which could, so that means continually publishing. I think they go into pod fade if they haven't published a new episode after three to six months. So yeah, people do it and then realize how much is involved and then stop.

Samantha Cusick: It's a shame and it's like, you know, 'cause we do it in seasons, it's slightly different because like we are not doing weekly. But that's intentional because again, that's how I look forward to something on Netflix. Like I like a season, I like to binge a season and then I like to have a break and then get something else.

So

Juliet Fallowfield: I really miss my favorite shows. When they stop, I'm like, come back and you're DMing them. Like, when are you starting again? So yeah. 

Samantha Cusick: And. Yeah. And that it does work. you keep people interested, but it gives you time to sort of reflect on what you've been doing in the episodes and listen back and, you know, align with new guests and new direction because it's, hard to keep it fresh, honestly. It is, but.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. And I think that's gorgeous thing about podcasting. There is no right nor wrong. there's [00:20:00] no dictated 20 episodes equals a season. You have to publish every other week. You can do whatever you want, which I think also when we find with new clients, they get a bit carried away with that and sometimes they need a boundary and they need it.

They need a publishing cadence to be consistent with that. for you have, do you feel now looking back at that first leasing agent, it has changed how people perceive you professionally now that you have the successful podcast and sort of complimenting the salons?

Samantha Cusick: I think so. I'm quite often told like when people meet me or we talk, it's like, oh, you're nothing like a, you would be, and I never know if that's a compliment or not. A bit weird happens. But ultimately I try not to pay it any mind to what people's perception is anymore because that's something I can't control.

 that's problem. It's not a me problem.

Juliet Fallowfield: you've proven it to yourself and that all. Yeah.

Samantha Cusick: It took a long time and a lot of getting over imposter syndrome, like that's a real thing, to get to that place where you just feel like, right, this is what I'm doing and the people around me know who I am and what I do. And, you know, [00:21:00] the podcast shine a light more on the guests than me, which is quite nice because within my business world, it is like, you know, hairdresser is called Samantha s at London. I have to be the face of it. And that's the other thing I love about the podcast is I'm able to, I'm actually as the host able to sit in the background a little bit and let them take it. And like, you know, and I love that. And that's been a real, like, epiphany moment.

And I realized that I like doing that too.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, you are the conduit for them. You are the means saying you are bringing them to a platform where they get to shine. And when we, our team, when we edit the podcast, we chop most. Best, and that's what's the joy is, letting them shine. 

podcast. podcast host?

I know. Well, this is what's quite fun because it's, talking to someone that speaks your own language, but in a completely different industry, which I absolutely love. And we met at Farmhouse when you did your talk and recorded that and turned that into a podcast and I was like.

And I'd already followed you and I'd seen it on the Farm Has app. I was like, oh my God, I wanna meet this woman. And then I had a work event, which meant I wasn't gonna be here. And then it got canceled, like, yes, I can meet someone because I, [00:22:00] love the fact that you put it out there. Silly little girls club.

And it tapped a nerve for me because I'd always been, oh, you're a PR person. You're a pr, this PR girl. And I was like that. I'm a professional. I work bloody hard. I get great results. I should be respected. But there's something about automatically being a woman in business that you feel a little bit.

Run down and then coupled with friends who run businesses and have children. And I don't, and I'm very grateful that I don't have kids, but the invisible labor that they're doing and not being cherished or rewarded or applauded for is shocking. So the fact that you are shining a light on this is incredible.

what else can I ask you about podcasting? I've kind of moment, so many things I.

 Management how have.

Samantha Cusick: So it's one of those things because again, like we burst it out in seasons and we like do it in a whole thing and I outsource to have the production company. So they come in, they set up the podcast room, they film [00:23:00] it, they edit it, and then I get the finished product back. Basically, I, after we've gone through and I've gone through like, no, no, no, no, no, no, I want change all this.

and then I obviously just use like a platform hosting. So I then upload everything and I spend a day just scheduling everything, putting it all in, doing all of the descriptions, all of the things, the thumbnails, putting it all on YouTube, again, scheduling it it goes out and I don't have to think about it.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah.

Samantha Cusick: So time blocking. And then obviously on social media once. There's a few different ways of doing it, but like we use, I think it's cap cut. I'm giving all my secrets right now, but once you've got the video onto YouTube, on the computer, you can give it the URL and it will make you shorts.

It'll make your shorts for you, so then you can use them as your click baits and all of your things to promote it on socials. And I've got Poppy, who is our digital marketing manager across the salons that helps me on the podcast, and she does that for me because again, I've got all these other things going on, and together we brainstorm and strategize.

[00:24:00] But like the fundamental bits of that is taken care of with Poppy. So.

Juliet Fallowfield: This is it. And with podcasting, as long as you're organized, anyone could do a podcast. And with clients, we meet quite a lot of neurodiverse people who are doing podcasting, and we give them our podcast production tracker. It keeps on the straight and narrow of like, do this, then do that, then do Oh yeah, I've got a 

Samantha Cusick: tractor. 

It's like with dropdowns, I love a spreadsheet, so I have all my episodes, all my links, all my guests, and then I'm like, dropdowns. And then like, have I done this? Have I got the social clips one to five? Have I got the thumbnail, have I got the, you know, the transcript?

Have I got everything,

Juliet Fallowfield: Show notes, linkings all the Okay.

Samantha Cusick: stuff. And then have I got the right tags for YouTube or we do Like is mad.

Juliet Fallowfield: yeah.

Samantha Cusick: Yeah, it's doable. You just gotta time block and you've gotta research what works for you. Like what platform works for you, like, are you gonna be a Spotify only podcast?

Because you know, those, ones do really well because Spotify like it if you only host on Spotify. Right? But I wanted mine on all platforms. So then it's a little bit different. So you have to use a hosting site that distributes like with your Rs.

Juliet Fallowfield: [00:25:00] RSS feeds. Yes. So you can set up, we use Buzzsprout that we love, but you could use a, in fact, I'm interviewing the head of communications at a, at farmhouse for a panel in April. So if anyone's listening, what's come? Dm. Lizzie's amazing. She's also a podcast host and director of communications at a, so she's just a mine of information.

but yeah, you can use a, you can use buzzsprout, so you can load up your episode and then it'll r feed and link out to Apple, Spotify, all of the directories, and sort of suddenly you press one button and then it's on all of the different directories, schedule it. So you wake up in the morning at 5:00 AM it's gone out.

It's there. And then you may have forgotten to put the season number or the episode number and you can quickly go back in and change it Yeah, and this is the hilarious thing people don't realize. With podcasting, you can replace the audio at any given time and update it, and it doesn't harm your download numbers, which everything's. Yeah. It's weird though because for example, when I send you this episode for approval, and we do that with all of our guests, and most people don't have to do that, but it's a nice gesture. You could listen to it and go, yep, fine. And then I could [00:26:00] upload it a week later. I could change it completely and you wouldn't know.

No one would know.

Samantha Cusick: There's a few different, yeah, there's a few red flags. I think with like the podcast thing, it's like, you know, finding analytics is a minefield. So like obviously when the sponsors and things ask what your like download rate is, or your listeners and your average, there's no real collation place, so you have to go.

So basically I'm pulling stuff from Spotify and pulling it from YouTube and all these things, and then aggregating it together to try and. Come up with what it is.

Juliet Fallowfield: I think you can, in Buzzsprout you have a total and that will pull from all of it, but it won't give you the drop off rate. It won't give you any demographics. Podcasting's a very safe place in terms of mining things for data, which is great. Sometimes, but also frustrating from an advertising sponsorship perspective.

you can go into Apple Connects and you can see more data, but that's just for Apple. It's not all of 

Samantha Cusick: yeah. that you'll be on. only 

is it like if you can get in the charts, then you know you're doing a good thing.

Juliet Fallowfield: Well, exactly, but there is no chart. You have to manually go through the chart to see where you are ranking and charitable folded a couple of years ago that used to tell you where you are [00:27:00] ranking in the charts, but that it's such an exciting place to be because it's all changing all the time and it's very, very new.

I think Apple invented the podcast 23 years ago for iPod, and that's why it's called a podcast or something like that. It's relatively new. We've got lots to learn. It's changing all the time. And our editing software itself updates itself every day. And we're like, great, but can you just not change the interface all the time? 

Samantha Cusick: Know, what's it gonna with AI coming in even more behind it, because that could only, that might even help us like, 

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, it absolutely does. And then there's the debate of what content's generated. 'cause you could say to an AI. Create a podcast with two voices that says this conversation, it will generate the audio, which I find quite terrifying, but also incredible in equal parts. So yeah, and then we'll start declaring what's natural, what's not, and all that kind stuff.

But just on sponsorship, because you are the mecca of podcasts, 'cause so many people want to be sponsored and they always think that's the metric of success. My argument is if you're having a wonderful, rewarding conversation, that should be the metric of success. [00:28:00] but for you, obviously you have secured sponsorship.

How has being negotiating that sponsorship deal been for you? Has it been difficult? 

Easy.

Samantha Cusick: so I'll be honest with you, I don't do that bit. So I have obviously, as part of being an ambassador for brands, I have a talent manager. so I have a company that do that. and so they're able to help do those sort of negotiations and, talk with them and then actually go out to the brands and be like, look, we're doing this.

This is what we're thinking and presenting it to them. It's about being proactive because obviously four didn't come to us enough. Sponsorship, we went to them and we were like, we're doing this. And like we'd already got a relationship through doing certain things throughout, through the hair. and it all came about because I actually did an in-store event for them where we did a live recording of a podcast for Sephora they work very closely with Face Equality International, which is a charity designed around helping people with facial differences.

And so I was there to have interview Nikki Lilly, who ended up not being very well. She's came on later in the podcast, but we had another girl, Matilda that works at Face [00:29:00] Equality International, and it was such a lovely conversation and performed so well, and it was such a nice community building thing that then was able to approach for and be like, would you be interested in, 

during a season, and then that's where it came about. And you know, renegotiated back and forth. And again, it's not a huge amount. It's enough to cover the production of it with maybe a little bit left for, extra promotional bits. But it's not generating me an income. It's 

Juliet Fallowfield: Thank you for sharing that because there's so many people are like, oh, we need a hundred thousand pounds. So it's like you haven't even started. You have no community you've gotta build Rome and then get people to come to Rome and then people will wanna sponsor Rome. So thank you for being really candid about that.

'cause you have a very strong Instagram presence, an incredibly successful business. And for you to say it's breaking even, or it's a bit more than that, it's really honest and I think people need to hear that. So

Samantha Cusick: Honestly, because transparency in these things, like I've heard things, people getting paid like a hundred grand, an episode different. I've actually seen pitch decks, like I don't even know how of some people's podcasts have gone out for sponsorship [00:30:00] and what they're asking per episode and you're just like, that is insane.

Like insane. I mean, don't get me wrong, put my hands up. I'd love to be getting like exponential amounts an episode and it'd be my full time job. But ultimately this is still my. My passion project. And so doing it to break even and having a name attached to it automatically helps the podcast. You know, people sit up and they're like, right, this must be something special if people are taking a notice in it.

And that's really important to me as well, is that people take podcasts seriously because a lot goes into it as you know.

Juliet Fallowfield: So much goes into it and the fact that you are well known and your guests are very well known, have you tactical after people to.

Samantha Cusick: I. I invite people that I wanna know about, like people that I aspire to be because again, running a business is so lonely. I'll be [00:31:00] really honest. It's terrifyingly lonely. You are always, you think you're building friendships and then it doesn't work then there after you for something else, or it's quite minefield. 

Juliet Fallowfield: rollercoaster 

Samantha Cusick: And 

so having, yes, so having conversations with other female founders and people that, you know, have that same, experience. It's so nice. And so that's why I like the guests that I get on, is because we have, you know, selfishly for me, I get to ask them things that I wanna know and help educate myself and build like a nice rapport with people.

And that's how I choose who comes on the podcast.

Juliet Fallowfield: Oh, that's brilliant again, because you'll have that rich real conversation and it will resonate with listeners and it's that full circle that will go back to, that's why it'll perform well, because it's a genuine conversation. and I remember hearing, I listened to the podcast about podcasting.

I'm that person and someone had Taylor Swift on, they said it was one of our least downloaded episodes 

Samantha Cusick: Wow. 

Juliet Fallowfield: searching for that in.

Samantha Cusick: Yeah. And also knows how many NDAs they had to sign and what they could and couldn't ask.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think going back to our [00:32:00] comment earlier that you were eavesdropping on a conversation, it has to be real. It has to be special. And I think that's where Sephora has seen the light and gone Yeah, of course. Gonna be to them as a sponsorship deal.

Samantha Cusick: They're amazing because they like to shine lights on, like, you know, they really are against inequality and different things. So it's like, it's all about empowering women, empowering everybody from every walk of life, and that's something that's really important as well. So having that diversity on the podcast and, you know, is about.

So, and that's been a really nice to the sponsorship as well.

Juliet Fallowfield: What would you say to a woman in particular who might be thinking of starting a business or starting a podcast? To encourage them to either do one or the other or both.

Samantha Cusick: Well, yeah, to encourage them. Honestly, the, best bit of advice is so simple is just start. Just start, like you never know what's gonna happen. You might start and hate it. I mean, I've started things and hated it and got rid of it. Like, but I think putting yourself out there and having that confidence is the hardest part.

Like that's what I found really challenging when I [00:33:00] did the podcast because I was like, is anyone gonna listen to this? Anyone care? and it's that infighting, that imposter syndrome. And I think what I'd say to people is just, you know, have that self-belief and have that confidence in yourself to put it out there.

Because ultimately, if nobody listens. It doesn't matter then, does it like, because nobody cares. So

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah.

Samantha Cusick: you might as well have a crack at it and see if you like doing it and see what happens.

Juliet Fallowfield: And what's the worst that's gonna happen? That's the, joy of being an entrepreneur or a founder or business owner, whatever you wanna call yourself, is actually flip it on its head. What's the worst that's gonna happen?

Samantha Cusick: exactly. You do something for the right reasons and you know, you don't do anything rogue and have a rant and all of these weird things that people seem to do sometimes online. then you're gonna be fine.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, exactly. And what advice would you give someone starting a business or a podcast or both, if they should plan for success? Because a lot of people say, don't plan for failure plan if this works, is that then gonna be working seven day weeks or around that?

Samantha Cusick: Uh, it is a tricky one because, you know, plan for success by all means, but also cover your bases. [00:34:00] Like do not start a business without a plan. Do your due diligence like this is, I talk about this a lot with people because I do a lot of like business talking as well and like helping people in the industry grow their business.

Like it's just something I'm passionate about. But starting anything without a plan is, is going fall on deaf ears. Make sure you've checked, you know, you're confident in your offering. You've got your USP, there's a gap in the market. You've got your finance in place because if you don't have that, you've got nothing.

Keep a cashflow reserve because you never know what's going to happen. Just look at COVID like, make sure that you are keeping an eye on the contingencies and pushing forwards. And honestly keep, I'm a big believer, like now I'll take a bit of a time back and step over and I'll have a look around at like.

The bird's eye view of everything. I was very tunnel visioned when I was building. I didn't listen to what anybody else was saying. I literally had an, had a vision in my mind of what the salon should be and what I wanted the experience to be. And I had people in my ears saying like, you know, that wouldn't that, [00:35:00] that's not a traditional way of doing things.

That's not how things work. And I'm like, well, this is the problem. This is where I'm going to the solution and making sure that you stick to your values and don't compromise. That is the biggest thing, and that leans into podcasting businesses even like looking from promotions.

anything we do 

Juliet Fallowfield: I love that that paragraph is just basically 101 If anyone's starting a business, should listen to that and take a deep breath and write a list and get going. No, not at all. But this is tried and tested. Like you, you've done it, you've gone through the challenges, you've proven you can do it. If we're not gonna listen to people like you who have this proven true record, track record, who are we gonna listen to?

But I think that just start part, and I started out of dignity of like, fuck, you've made me redundant. I'm gonna prove you wrong. And within a year, I'm gonna write a thank you letter to my previous employers for redundancy and mean it. I did. I was like, yeah, actually cool. Doesn't mean it's easy though, that bloody rollercoaster and the I, but I was gonna ask you about imposter syndrome.

I had a very good friend Hamish on to talk about imposter thoughts [00:36:00] because he's like, you can't be diagnosed with imposter syndrome. It's not a syndrome, it's a feeling. ergo it will pass. How do you manage your. Because you've put yourself out there continually. You're a really decent human being with a good heart that doesn't couple well with the kind of egotistical maniac of being a founder that we see out there as well.

How have you got.

Samantha Cusick: You know what? It was really interesting. I was quite poorly, like I got myself quite burnt out and quite anxious and It was a really hard time and it was all down to feeling that imposter syndrome like it was bubbling. It was like, I didn't go to university, I'm a hairdresser, and now I've, it was round about the time that I'd opened the second salon.

And I was suddenly gone from like a team of 10 to a team of 20 that were dependent on me and were turning over like, you know, quite a lot of money at that point, and we're growing even more. And I'm like, I suddenly, I'm like, I shouldn't be running a business. Like what am I doing? Like I can't do this.

Like, I'm not trained for this. I don't know what business terminology is. Like, I had no idea. And I started to freak out, obviously, like [00:37:00] anybody probably would. And I had to take a second to think about like, What am I freaking out about? I know I can do hair and we built it to this point.

 it was not knowing, like not having business, like knowledge, like as hairdressers we're very good at upskilling ourselves in terms of techniques, like new balayage techniques, new cutting techniques, but we never work really on ourselves away from the chair in terms of like learning new business skills.

And I think that's what started set into me. It's like, I dunno what an EBITDA is. I don't really understand my p and l. I just know that the money's going in and out. I keep an eye on those sort of finances to know that we're always safe and keep a reserve. I always have done. So the core was there and so I started looking around for business courses that I could go on and I came across the Goldman Sachs 10 k sb, I dunno if you've heard of this, and I thought, oh, I'll apply.

I'll just apply, see if I can get a place, and it's, you know, Goldman Sachs do this in conjunction with, Oxford University. And if you get accepted, it's a free place. It's funded. and you go on there and you [00:38:00] have, I think it's an eight week program, and they help you build a business growth plan, but also go through different modules of things like accounting, marketing, like.

Financing, scaling everything it is. And you, go through this and at the end of it you have a business growth plan. And so I go on this, I get accepted, which again, my imposter syndrome is like, oh my God, you just like, you know, they must have just needed like a girl that was a hairdresser to fill a tick box or whatever.

But no, my business plan and all of my like financials and things, they all stood, up to everybody else. And anyway, I go on this course. you're then bunched with like a group of, so the alumni who are the other people on the course, and they're all talking about their businesses, and it's a very open, cohort.

So everyone talks about their businesses, like in terms in depth, like we share p and Ls. Like IP visions is, it's very safe space because everybody is filtered and put together, so there's no conflict. So it's actually really well considered by obviously the course facilitators and. I'm looking around all these other businesses and I'm like, oh my God, they're so [00:39:00] impressive.

Like I'm freaking out at this point and I'm like, this is crazy. Anyways, we start going through the motions. And as we're going through it, it was the most humbling experience because while I didn't know the abbreviations for certain things, I was looking at these modules and all of these businesses, like some that I'd heard of that were in the course, were struggling with these things, and I'm like, oh, you just do this.

That's what that is, and this is this and that. And so I was doing it and it really proved to me that I knew I was doing, I just didn't know what it was called. And so. 

Juliet Fallowfield: Dunno what you dunno, but also you dunno what you do know.

Samantha Cusick: Yes. I didn't know what I do now. I didn't know what I knew. And so when I sort of was able to be like, right, well this is, I'm already doing risk management and I'm also already doing this KPIs, like predict I'm already doing it.

I just didn't know that's what it was called. I was getting in my own head. But the real thing about this course, which again, was really funny, and it's one of those things that it's not, it's not funny. It's quite tragic really. But again, the stigma of being a hairdresser is nobody on that course took me seriously.

I was the hairdresser. [00:40:00] They were like, oh, you're the hairdresser. And towards the end of the course, it's like probably three quarters of the way through, you have to stand up in front of all the alumni and you have to present your business plan, like your business growth plan, what you are gonna do.

So you do a little intro, a recap on who your business is with your numbers and everything like that. And it wasn't until then when I stood up and I distanced to everybody else's that my business was turning over more than any of theirs. And suddenly I was the one they were asking for advice

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah.

Samantha Cusick: and you're like, oh.

So then the imposter syndrome kind of took a backseat after that.

Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, great. I'm sorry that you had to go through that to have that realization, but also,

 you 

Samantha Cusick: was literally like, I was like, oh, so then like, yeah, my revenue is like, by turnover is this, my profit is, and they're like, you know, people whose businesses were incredible businesses, but their turnover was nothing like that.

Juliet Fallowfield: so they were kind of coming in with that silly little girl. she hairdresser.

Samantha Cusick: Yeah. Salon will never make that much money. As, and then you were like, here's the spreadsheet. Let show [00:41:00] you

Here's my p&l. Like here's my accounts like

 It was validating and all of a sudden that imposter syndrome was like, girl, you were doing all of this, you, but at the end of the day, I met some amazing people on that course. And it continues now. Like if anybody is listening that has a small business, I would implore them to have a look at it because it was one of the most life changing experiences that I've had.

And we had this growth plan and that's how I then went on to build stay studios, which is where I'm now, which is my coworking salon, which is a bit like a WeWork for hairdressers. and it was just an amazing opportunity.

Juliet Fallowfield: But also I think this is it. You have to know your numbers or you have to know your business to know that you're doing well or not well. And you could be doing really well, but you can't then celebrate that 'cause you don't know. But equally, you're not gonna have a business if you dunno your numbers. and I've heard great things about the Goldman Sachs course as well, so other friends in the entrepreneurial world have done it and said great things.

But for you, yeah. Congratulations. That's mega. And I would a on the wall.

Samantha Cusick: yeah, it was really fun.

Juliet Fallowfield: Something that we do is a question from our last guest has a question for the [00:42:00] next guest, and it was Maison Luie Marie, a fragrance brand based in LA and American, Matt, French Marie. she started the brand and then he came on as her CEO when she wanted maternity leave.

She's like, it was the only way I could get him into the business is having his baby and I had to go off work and he had to come in and so their question for you, or Matt's question was you. there's something around senior highs, but his question was, what have you deliberately not done or said no to when you've grown your business?

Samantha Cusick: Oh, that's an interesting one.

Juliet Fallowfield: And I love the fact that every single person has a different question. I've never had the same one. 

but it's 

Samantha Cusick: deliberately said no to.

Juliet Fallowfield: is, it's really hard when you start, you typically say yes to everything because you I still 

Samantha Cusick: do that. I do still do that a lot. Yeah. the biggest thing I had to do and I had to say no to was I had to step away from doing clients full time.

Juliet Fallowfield: Oh I had literally, 

Samantha Cusick: it was awful, like breaking up with clients. It was awful. but you know, I had a team of hairdressers that are incredible and they're honestly better than I am.

So I knew that was in safe hands, but [00:43:00] having to say no and changed my job role, that was really difficult mentally and like business operationally, it was very difficult, but it was the.

Juliet Fallowfield: You had to.

Samantha Cusick: So many hours in the day. And I was literally just like, and also Clark, who's my business operations director, who's worked, with me for nine years now. He was the one, he was like, Sam, you've gotta stop doing clients. This is ridiculous. And like, 'cause I would do clients and I'd go home and do my emails, do my social media, do everything.

And weekends and it was ridiculous. And so now I've free my time. I still do clients, don't get me wrong, but they're, it's more for like brands or, like press or like 

 high profile clients, whatever. 

Juliet Fallowfield: You're in a position you can cherry but, oh God, I wish we could do things without burning out and that trampoline effect, but you hit rock bottom and you get all your answers. I wish we could avoid that, but yeah, it's an effective red flag and alarm bell for sure. And your body's like, just listen, it's gotta stop doing this.

would your question [00:44:00] be for our next guest? 

Samantha Cusick: When you haven't a, you know, when you, who the guest is and what you'd want know.

Juliet Fallowfield: Anything that you are thinking around? I'm just looking at the schedule. I think I know who it's gonna be, but it might change. So it could be anything that you are facing at the moment in terms of challenging problems with the business or things that you're curious about, or if you could have any founder around a table, what would you ask them about starting and scaling a business 

Samantha Cusick: Ooh, yeah. Let me have a thing. This is a hard one to put on the spot because there's so many different angles for this, isn't there?

Samantha Cusick: Is really hard.

Juliet Fallowfield: For me at the moment, someone that asked, it's like, when do you know it's right to bring on a senior hire? Which I thought was a good one because they're expensive mistakes and often mistakes. when to sell your business, when to stop your business. Because I was like, God, I'd love, I'm at six years in April and I just thought, friends going on sabbaticals, they've got long service leave.

I'm like, how do I do that? I'm not sure how I could do that in my own [00:45:00] business. So there's all sorts of things, but most of the questions I have to say around hiring and firing.

Samantha Cusick: Yeah, maybe we do something like, maybe it's around like how do you know when it is time to delegate and get out of the way? Like, do you consider yourself a bottleneck for the business? And is there any been any instances where you've got in the way and blocked your business's growth and how have you overcome that?

Juliet Fallowfield: I reckon everyone would've said yes a hundred percent number of

times. no, no. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much. I mean, I could talk to you for about a gazillion hours because I think you're brilliant. you've smashed it. I'm sorry you've had to go through those challenges that you were facing, but I'm so pleased that you've shown the world that it's possible.

'cause you'll be demonstrating to so many other women in particular that just go for it. 

Samantha Cusick: Oh, I hope. 

Juliet Fallowfield: It's possible. 

Samantha Cusick: you. Like this is lovely, like having a chat with somebody that gets it and it's just, it's what it's all about, like what we're saying.

Yeah, problem Shared is a problem. Hard was the other name for the podcast. There's many things. There's many ways to rebrand this.

So funny. I really wanna call my podcast Curl Up and Die. [00:46:00] I was like the old school hairdressing thing, but then the silly little girl's name just came to us, so,

Juliet Fallowfield: And you've got the story to back it up that, oh gosh, that's giving me chills. I, think you should just email your p and l to that leasing agent every month and be like, do you want a piece?

Samantha Cusick: I'm about to give my notice on that building. Which is gonna be the biggest FU. So we're moving, we've had 10 years there, and the building's just like, it's not stood the test of time. They don't invest in it. It's terrible. and I found a new one, which we have actually just put our offer in today, so I'm really 

Juliet Fallowfield: Oh, fingers crossed. 

I'm gonna try and think of some really fun, inventive ways where you can give your notice, kind of like on a cake or with balloons and champagne, or your whole team can go to his office and be like,

Samantha Cusick: Honestly, it would just be a one word email.

Juliet Fallowfield: yeah. 

Samantha Cusick: And zero time given, it'll be a chat, like quick done, not getting more my time or my money.

Juliet Fallowfield: God Good. Well, congratulations. Yes. Yes. That, and then mic drop. Quite [00:47:00] literally. Thank you, Sam, so much for your time. Absolutely. It's flown past, but I'm so grateful 

Speaker 3: If you'd like to contact Sam, you can find all of her details in our show notes along with a recap of the advice she has so kindly shared. And tune 

in next week to hear the answer to the question she asked for our next guest nick, the founder of the gluten-free Italian brand, white Rabbit.

Juliet Fallowfield: