Have you ever felt trapped in a loveless marriage or wrestled with the aftermath of domestic abuse? We've got an eye-opening episode today that will evoke a myriad of emotions. Our guest courageously narrates her journey through a bitter marriage, the consequent divorce, and the brutal court battles that followed. She navigates us through the labyrinth of her inner turmoil, with her faith as her compass, in a society that had a tendency of leaning towards judgment rather than empathy.
The conversation deepens as she recounts her survivor's tale of domestic abuse and the trials she faced in the legal system. With thousands spent on court and attorney fees, she reveals how she was driven towards law school and mediation as an alternative to traditional courts. These experiences paved the way for her groundbreaking organization, I Am Pro Se, which aims to provide crucial resources and support for other abuse survivors, particularly Black survivors, in association with the Black Domestic Violence Collective.
We then traverse the often overlooked struggles of Black survivors, confronting issues like post-separation abuse and the hurdles in reaching out for help. Our guest underlines the necessity to support not just survivors, but also the abusers. The conversation culminates in a profound reflection on salvation, and the transformative power of making Jesus the center of one's life. Laced with insightful perspectives on love, faith, and resilience, this episode is sure to touch hearts and minds alike. Tune in for an emotional rollercoaster that will leave you with renewed courage and hope.
Have you ever felt trapped in a loveless marriage or wrestled with the aftermath of domestic abuse? We've got an eye-opening episode today that will evoke a myriad of emotions. Our guest courageously narrates her journey through a bitter marriage, the consequent divorce, and the brutal court battles that followed. She navigates us through the labyrinth of her inner turmoil, with her faith as her compass, in a society that had a tendency of leaning towards judgment rather than empathy.
The conversation deepens as she recounts her survivor's tale of domestic abuse and the trials she faced in the legal system. With thousands spent on court and attorney fees, she reveals how she was driven towards law school and mediation as an alternative to traditional courts. These experiences paved the way for her groundbreaking organization, I Am Pro Se, which aims to provide crucial resources and support for other abuse survivors, particularly Black survivors, in association with the Black Domestic Violence Collective.
We then traverse the often overlooked struggles of Black survivors, confronting issues like post-separation abuse and the hurdles in reaching out for help. Our guest underlines the necessity to support not just survivors, but also the abusers. The conversation culminates in a profound reflection on salvation, and the transformative power of making Jesus the center of one's life. Laced with insightful perspectives on love, faith, and resilience, this episode is sure to touch hearts and minds alike. Tune in for an emotional rollercoaster that will leave you with renewed courage and hope.
But the only thing that was there was the Gideon Bible. You know, in every room. So we're at the West End and the Gideon Bible is there and I'm just reading and I'm reading, and then finally I say you know what, god, I give it to you. I say God, I give it to you Because if I would have went back, y'all would have been interviewing me in a sale.
Speaker 2:
Welcome to the Call by God podcast with Adne Godet and myself, nixon Sylvain. This show is about dialogues of biblical characters and testimonies of Christians who submitted to the will of God. Each week, we bring on one guest so that they can share their story of how they were called by God. I hope this show inspires you. Enjoy, hello world.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to another week of I said, okay, she was like but the issue is he wants everything, right. And then I was like, no. So I called him. I said hey, let's do this. I said I get it. You can have everything. That's there. The only thing I want are my children. You can, if you can, help me, pay for daycare up until they get into elementary. Then you don't have to worry about child support.
Speaker 1:
Because I never believed in forcing a man to take care of his kids. He said I don't care about. And then I told him about the house. I was like, hey, we could sell the house. It's equity in it. We could sell the house and then split it in that way. Our credit, this and that. That's what I'm talking, because once I'm good, I'm good. He said I don't care about my credit and I sure don't care about yours. He said I'm not giving you a dime, okay.
Speaker 1:
So of course we ended up in court. By this time I got me a attorney. And so my background? Of course I'm a paralegal. That's my background. I'm a paralegal, I do all the legal stuff. He drags this out for two years over a water bill. He drags it out. I don't want anything. I literally don't want anything but my kids.
Speaker 1:
And he made the associate judge so mad. He lied and said that we were separated a year before we were actually separated. And she said, oh, okay, and I'm sitting here. I'm just like why are you telling the story? She said, no, so what I'm gonna do is backtrack child support to that timeframe. And so he ended up. So this is the thing. If I ever have to go back and when you're dealing with someone who's somewhat of a narcissist or a narcissist or has a person in a personality disorder, I would have pleaded and begged that she never do that. I would have pleaded and begged just give me my kids and let me move on. Because he flipped out when it came to getting that child support. He flipped out every time. It was a constant reminder of him having to pay. I didn't even want him on it, but the court I was in, which people don't realize you don't have to go that route. You can create whatever agreement that you want to create, but the court goes through that process because they want to go through it. But so when she did that, that was on temporary orders. So my cars were vandalized, my where I stayed. It was always drama.
Speaker 1:
It was recommended by where I lived that I moved in with family that was part of my safety plan the females so I called them Kunkibans. It was Kunkiban one, two, three. I called him Kunkiban. He ended up marrying Kunkiban number three, but I called him Kunkibans and they would. I mean I went through it. So I ended up having to move in with my mom and dad, but during that timeframe he would submit false police reports and welfare checks. I went through about 75 within a year of false police reports and welfare checks, and this is during the course of us still going through a divorce. Finally, the day of the divorce, he turned around. He had the kids. That weekend before we were supposed to finalize divorce, I had a beautiful friend who gifted me a divorce vacation and I was really thankful.
Speaker 1:
So during this time in dealing with the church, they saw what I was going through and he was actually taking Kunkibans around the different churches and so people were calling, elders were calling my dad saying, hey, we know, this is not his wife, and then I had elders, wives and deacons wives pulling me to the side at events and told me that I'm embarrassing my family. So it was almost like man are going to cheat. You just need to accept it. That's what was being really relayed to me Until you had the core group, who really saw what was going on, who came and tried to pour inspiration to me. But then I had the other elements out there who talked about me. I lost friends. People removed themselves from me when I was going through this process, and even at a conference I had one that was like we got women over here promoting to leave this and that.
Speaker 1:
So I am one that's very to the point. So I get up and get a mic. It was like why do you have an issue? That I chose option two. I know that I'm right with God. I know this. It's not a question. I'm right with God, and at this time it was almost like a relief because I knew he didn't love me. There's no way you love me If you treat me like this. There's no way you love me. So I was at peace. Feel sorry for my kids, don't feel sorry for me, but you need to sweep around your own front door because if you decide to stay in marriage and you know that you're in a loveless place, god is going to hold you accountable. He's going to look at you. You gotta get your relationship right with him because he is love. So if you're in a loveless place, he is not there. So don't come looking at me when you know, we know your husband is going around the whole church trying to date anything with a skirt. So that was the stuff I was going through.
Speaker 2:
So how long you been married before he filed for divorce? Like how long Eight?
Speaker 1:
years, eight years.
Speaker 2:
Eight years wow.
Speaker 1:
So we're at the final hearing and he tells me I wasn't even going to file on you. He was like but you left and I was like, are you kidding me? It's me. But then that's the normalcy. The normalcy is it's your fault, you did this. I wasn't even going to move forward on this. So he had the kids that week before. So we get to court. I get the kids back that Monday.
Speaker 1:
My daughter has a prick C in her cheek and so it's inflamed and I'm looking like like what is that? Like? So took her to the hospital. They had just came back from the pediatrician that Friday. So when they left to go with him, they were perfect. So my daughter has this C in her face. I'm like what in the world is that? So her doctor who was amazing had put ointment on. She said hopefully she's. I don't know why. I said that it wasn't a wingworm, it wasn't right. Like she said, I don't know why, it's a perfect C.
Speaker 1:
We get into court, got it? We get into court and she turns around and says or his attorney. I'm on the stand. His attorney comes at me and says are you dating somebody named Chris? So I look at him and I said did you prick a C in my baby's face? I said I don't know why. It's a perfect C. I said did you prick a C in my baby's face? Did you literally prick a C in my baby's face? So the judge is like wait what? And so I have the pictures on my phone because I didn't know what this was.
Speaker 1:
So then my mom, I'm supposed to leave and go out to Cayman Islands after that. Right, my mom. So after the judge looks at it, they realize certain things. I get full custody of the kids. And then I get there are certain other things that I got within the divorce. And my mom is looking at me because I'm livid. I'm like, okay, we about to. This is going like because now you did something that I didn't think you would ever do. So my mom is like no, you gotta get on the plane, I'll handle it. My mom was trying to get me out. I get on the plane. We get to Cayman Islands.
Speaker 1:
As soon as we land they shut everything down because it's a tropical storm. No planes going in, no planes going out. So I still, I got my mom on the phone because I'm like okay, I'm leaving here, I don't care what nobody say so. They found out. So my daughter had a C in her face, my son had a C in his ankle. My like prick C's on him and I'm like what? Like? So I'm like I'm coming home, right, I get to the airport they're like no, you cannot leave, nobody can leave, I ain't livid. I call all his people, I call all these people.
Speaker 1:
I said, when I get back, I'm a prick E in your face. That's how I mean I was. You can't even imagine the feeling. I cried. I cried so for like going on two to three days, couldn't leave the island and it was not until the only thing so that we were on. They were on, you know, it was limited lights, all kind of stuff, but the only thing that was there was the Gideon Bible, you know, in every room. So we're at the West end and the Gideon Bible is there and I'm just reading and I'm reading, and then finally I say you know what, god, I give it to you. I said, god, I give it to you Because if I would have went back, y'all would have been interviewing me in a sale what, and I don't know what we got. So y'all would have been interviewing me in a sale.
Speaker 1:
But then after that the sun came out shining, I ended up coming back and then it just got worse. I came back, the investigation they said was botched because the investigator admitted that she there was a relationship going on between her and my husband and so then that was on. So we were able to move from where we were because he kept on doing foster police reports where my father lived. So we were able to move to the colony. So during this timeframe I'm traveling to go and be in the presence of my brother's teaching, and so when we get there it just gets worse.
Speaker 1:
Because he would not pick them up from school on time. He, steady, would not pick them. He would call me the day of and say, hey, I can't get them. So that's a form of course of control, because now you're controlling my schedule, you know where I'm gonna be, I gotta pick them up at this time, you know that they're with me. He would come the next day and say, hey, I'll come pick them up the next day. Then he would come. He found my information through the school district because before they had my information where he didn't need to know it because of the history and what had transpired, so he found my information show up so he would come on the next day and then come and bring them back early. It was just, it was no way to live and I lived underneath fear. I lived underneath complete fear and people kept telling me hey, you need to take them back to court. You need to take them back to court. You can't continue to operate in this manner. There would be days where he would just decide he's just not gonna bring them or he'll try to pick them up early. It was he would not follow a schedule appropriately, and so God continually blessed me.
Speaker 1:
I got a director position, sales director of Jenny Craig and my kids. A lot of times they were able to just be there with me, or it was a venture kids down the way and they were so loving they were like just bring the kids. I didn't even have money for it a lot of times and so God would make a way. But so the biggest regret that I ever had was I was instructed by the police. We had another incident.
Speaker 1:
I was instructed by the police that I need to take this back to court. So I needed to take it back to court because my job was transitioning, so there needed to be changes anyway. So I took it back to court and I'll say one thing before I know we have to wrap up, but there's, I'll say this one thing God never intended even though he left the faith, god never intended for Christians to take each other to court. Now, with him leaving the faith, that's different. He took me right, god bless, but for me to take him God never intended. There were other alternatives. I didn't even know, but there were other alternatives that could have transpired instead of taking my brother to court, which when people say what's the biggest regret? That was one of the biggest regrets. If I could do over, I would have did it differently. And then that became so this became. Now we're in like year three after I divorced, going into four. And then that began the 14 years of litigation family court litigation that he took me through.
Speaker 2:
And I was like what's the big deal? I know this is getting good right and it can even get better, but I want to definitely save some time for you to discuss just briefly about domestic violence. But before we get into that, and for those that's listening to Elizabeth's story, Glory to God. I know a little bit about a story. God has given her the victory litigation and all this law situation and I'm sure she could correct me when she had her opportunity to speak. But, sister Elizabeth, I want you to briefly talk about I am pro se. I definitely wanna have a time, cause this is huge, cause I know, based on everything that you experience within your marriage and even in the past and the things that you shared, and I know your organization is dedicated to serving Black survivors of domestic violence, which you work. Cause you are a survivor of domestic violence and I definitely wanna make some time for you to talk about this. So correct me if I'm wrong. Talk about your litigation situation just briefly and talk about the origin of I am pro se.
Speaker 1:
So 14 years. So I was steady, taking back and forth to court and a lot of survivors. This is what they go through, especially if they are dealing with an abuser or a perpetrator that has the means to go back and forth to court. And courts are structured in a capitalist situation so the more money you spend they actually create that type of environment. And so in my eighth year after being in court back and forth at the only reason why it even lasts that long is because of my knowledge as a paralegal so in my eighth year there were things that were very shocking that occurred within the court to the point where they changed custody over where he was able to get full custody at one point. So in my eighth year I said this is ridiculous. By this time I had spent close to, I think almost 200,000, in court fees and attorney fees and different things like that. And so I got to the point where I said this is ridiculous. While I pay another attorney, I need to go ahead and go to law school.
Speaker 1:
But I learned about something that was that that I didn't they didn't introduce because of the history of my case, which was mediation. So I got into Pepperdown Law. I actually got into Pepperdine Law the same day that he actually picked my kids up from, because I got my kid, I got, I got my kids back. And then he came back after not even dealing with them for two years and Pick my kids up from school and made false claims against me that I had to prove in court that that those were false. But it takes time. So I didn't see my kids for almost two years. I didn't have access to my children, but it was the same day that I started Pepperdine Law, and so when I got into Pepperdine Law, I was able to identify that Mediation is another form of our way to resolve Conflict and issues. It doesn't have to be so heightened and there's a safe way to be able to do this, and so the day that I graduated is actually the day that I got access back to my children, but I was able to Utilize my skills there to be able to really get full custody back of my kids, and so I am pro. Se is actually birthed out of that. It's birthed out of Seeing what was transpiring within the court system for survivors and then also what in going through so, black survivors many times do not receive the same type of resources as others, and so what we do is we're really a connector.
Speaker 1:
We're the host for the black domestic violence collective, which is Black-led organizations from all across the United States, and we connect, so we're called upon if anyone is in need or they know someone black women in our black community, even some men. We do not. We do not basically Reveal what is happening personally with within our own situations, which is why, right now, our black femicide, the death of black women and girls, is so high. We're three times more likely than any other race to die from domestic violence by an intimate partner, and so, I am pro se, what we do is we confidentially Help those who are in need. We're connectors, we're also in advocacy, so we reach out. We try to make sure that those that are in place receive the support in the and the resources that they need so that they can stay Alive.
Speaker 1:
The worst time for black survivors is when they transition away, and it's when they do get away, and so that's so I am pro se was birthed out of that. There is no fear on this end With that and the way. The reason why we're different is we don't just look at the survivor. We also look at the abuser perpetrator, because a lot of times within the black community there are heightened things that have occurred and what we do is we reach out and we give brothers within the body of Christ. We get brothers to surround If we're able to get to the abuser perpetrator and ask them hey, what support system do you need?
Speaker 1:
So we pull brothers that we know, that are about the body and that want to really work in the Lord and Really serve in the community. We really we pull them and say, hey, can you minister to or can you support this, this brother who is having a really difficult time in the relationship, and so we get her resources and we also get him resources and instead of it just being all focused on the survivor who gets away, we also service to help, because what we don't want is that abuser are there Puppetrated and I get the help that they need, and then they get someone else and they do the same thing. So that's where I am pro se stemmed out of and we're just excited that, like we're here, we we've gotten some pushback because because people don't like to talk about it within the church, but but this is, this is, it's everywhere and and we have to eradicate it before you came on.
Speaker 2:
When I thought about domestic violence, I thought about, okay, only women be going through it. But yet again I looked, I looked at the, the Department of Justice, and that says that domestic violence is, is, it's, it's, it's a plethora things. It's physical abuse, sexual, emotional, economic, psychological and technical abuse. So my question, to use that if, if a male figure is getting abused, what's the first line of action that that male should do? Because typically it's not found in men. Men are usually the ones the abusers, but I'm sure that there's a small percentage of men that get abuse. So you know what was the first. Well, what would be the first line of action for a brother or male to take if he's getting abused?
Speaker 1:
So the first line is to actually call someone like I am pro se and really identify what type of abuse that they're going through and then to set up a type of action plan to address that abuse. So if they it's not about just going straight into or focusing on the abuser or the perpetrator you want to be able to, for that person to know okay, these are the ways that abuse is occurring, this is what is actually happening within the relationship, and so you want him to be able to know and then identify the resources and what's needed. And for me, and a lot of times, it is confidentiality, because it's embarrassing or seen as being embarrassing.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so you want, you want to be able to take that, or have them get the resources and to know what's available for them and then make a plan of action. You should never go into the situation where you're telling you know the person or the survivor, you know what they should do. You want to just provide the resources because they know their situation better than anyone. So you just want to show them hey, these are the options, these are some things that are there. What would you like to do, or what do you think will be best for you and a good? So really identifying an advocate and then putting together a plan of action in that manner.
Speaker 3:
How would one become an advocate and work with IAM process?
Speaker 1:
So definitely you can reach out to us. We do all types of training. We are actually really in need at this time, especially in certain areas, but you would reach out and then we would actually schedule you for training If you're actually within the body of Christ. We also established and our I found a organization called IAM Pro Say and it's actually a Bible Women's Ministry. It is the national supporting organization for the Black Domestic Violence Collective and it is a place where you can work and you can also really become an advocate for those who are fleeing. So, basically, this is this ministry is a space where you can really you can really do God's work in helping those directly affected by domestic violence. Or, like I said, you can definitely reach out to IAM Pro Say and just say, literally send an email and say, hey, I want to volunteer, I would love to become an advocate, and we'll put a plan together for you to become an advocate, especially within your community.
Speaker 2:
I love it. I love it because this is the thing I know. Like you said, most of us when I mean us, I mean African Americans we don't like to speak up, and someone posed that question to me like, hey, nick, you know, for male was getting abused, what would you do, especially if he's a husband? So I know I'm in a body. Now, this is not limited, this is only limited to those that are in a body, or is it just for everybody, everyone, everyone, okay, so do you have like a 800 number or hotline folks that are listening that could call if they're going through such we always advise to actually call the main hotline, but we do have a source.
Speaker 1:
So if you go to IAMProSayorg and you actually dive into the contact, our contact form actually alerts us and we're able to reach back out. What we found, especially for Black survivors, is normally they're able to get away. It is the post separation abuse. 80% of our issues are post separation abuses. It is when they actually have left. So if they're in, it definitely call the national hotline and but if they, if, like a lot of our survivors, when they're away or they get away, the big thing is if you put that information in our contact, it actually dings us and then we're able to identify and respond to you the way that you wanna be responded.
Speaker 1:
Black women move a little bit different and they text or they'll say, hey, I'll give you a call. At this time, versus other cultures, we move different. So the best way for us to get contact within our network is through that contact, that contact page, and we yeah, we're right on it when it comes to that. But if it's like immediate emergency, of course, and, like I said, our black women a lot of times we don't like to contact or call the police because we end up being arrested. So we use different means and but if you're in a state where you need immediate, definitely the national domestic violence hotline.
Speaker 1:
But if you in a post separation and you're still getting, you're getting threats, you're getting stalked, you're getting followed there are certain things that are coming up like court that may happen, or you just don't feel safe, what we will do? You put that contact information. We'll actually come out to your home, we'll do like a whole safety. We'll bring out safety tools and resources for you, even down to getting a camera for your home or anything that we see, that we observe, and we'll put an action plan together and we'll try to make sure that you stay in a safe environment, in a safe place.
Speaker 2:
Amen, all right. So this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna have to ask one last question. But before we do ask our last question, I wanna say this I don't.
Speaker 2:
I know you guys heard Elizabeth's story. She is, yes, she is a survivor of domestic abuse, but also she is a powerful woman of God, a woman of God that's doing so many things for the kingdom of God. She first got her call when she was young and she's been doing great works. And also she had a loveless, loveless marriage for eight years. Now, I never want you guys to take this story and discourage y'all from getting married, because you know I don't want the enemy to say, okay, this is why I don't wanna get married, because you never know who your spouse is. That's not why Sister Elizabeth shared her story.
Speaker 2:
Sister Elizabeth was sharing her story to highlight and capture some of the moments that she went through in her life as a Christian. As a result, because people think that Christians are perfect, like we don't have bad days. Yes, we have a whole lot of bad days, but also we have good days as well. But our goal is to encourage you to draw closer to Christ in times of adversity, at times of when you're down and feeling blue. This is the time that you're supposed to get closer to God, not run away from God. So we never wanna discourage anybody from being married, because marriage is a beautiful thing and it's something that's originated from God. That's why they say choose your spouse wisely, choose your spouse wisely.
Speaker 2:
But other than that, I thank you so much, sister Elizabeth, for sharing your story, because I thank you again for your transparency, because we need that more in the church, because the church is like a hospital. We go through stuff and people sometimes think that you're supposed to be all bubbly, bubbly, all Jesus, jesus. No, we gotta be real with each other. We gotta tell each other our real situations because, like you said, we need prayer and we know the power of prayer prayer in action, fasting prayer action, fasting prayer, action and we need a whole lot of that. But my final question to you, sister Elizabeth, and this is a spiritual question when your assignment is complete on earth, what do you wanna be remembered for?
Speaker 1:
That I lived in no fear in doing what God called me to do. I think that that is the. You know, a lot of times we're afraid of actually going all in for God, which goes back to how much I wanna make sure the world understands and knows I love God, I'm in love with Him, and when he calls me to do what he calls me to do, no matter, you know, no matter what I may face, that he knows that I won't leave Him, that I will, unapologetically and unafraid, do the things that he wants me to do.
Speaker 2:
Hey man, I could hear the passion in your voice when you say I love God. I know you truly love God because I could hear it going through the airwaves. Sister Elizabeth, again, thank you again for sharing. But I know someone out there may say, hey, I need more information on what she's doing in her community, what she's doing in the church. Where can our listeners find you?
Speaker 1:
You can definitely always email me at Elizabeth at IAMPROSEorg, and I am there for you. So definitely reach out any questions, any further information. I'm here for you.
Speaker 3:
All I can say is thank you. This is definitely going to touch and help women understand that they don't have to stay and be abused. There is a way out and, most importantly, that there is a God in heaven who loves them so much and did not create them to be abused. He created them to be loved. So thank you, sis, thank you.
Speaker 2:
Thank you for tuning in to the Call by God podcast today. We hope that you have been inspired by Elizabeth Stewart-Williams testimony and that it helped to deepen your understanding of salvation. We want to remind you that salvation is a free gift from God, offered to all through faith in Jesus Christ. If you haven't yet accepted this gift, we encourage you to take some time to reflect on your relationship with God and consider what it would mean to make Jesus the Lord of your life. That's it for now, but before we go, please continue to listen, subscribe and share our podcast. Also, if you want to support our show, please scroll down to the bottom of the show notes and click on the link that says Buy Me a Coffee. We were greatly appreciated. Thank you for listening and remember God is good all the time and all the time God is good and also Jesus Christ loves you. Thank you.