The Wadeoutthere Fly Fishing Podcast
The Wadeoutthere Fly Fishing Podcast
WOT 164: Keeping Things Fresh and Doing the Work in Art and Fly Fishing with Mike Savlen
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In this episode we WadeOutThere with Mike Savlen from Kennebunkport, Maine. Mike grew up in New England with a love of both fishing and art. He fell in love with fly fishing when he moved to Vermont and found flies worked better than lures.
Mike’s art became his primary professional focus when he “stopped listening to other people” and followed what truly made him happy. As a painter in the Rocky Neck Art Colony in Gloucester, Massachusetts he was encouraged to continue painting fish by one of his art mentors.
We discuss keeping things fresh in art and fly fishing, Mike’s sailing voyage from New England to Key West and how it influenced his paintings, casting to sea run brown trout, and the importance of doing the work.
You can view Mike's artwork or purchase an original painting or giclee print at his website:
SavlenStudios.com
For more fly fishing stories, lessons learned, and artwork check out my blog and online gallery at Wadeoutthere.com
Sign up for Jason's free email newsletter (WadeOutThere Wednesday) at WadeOutThere.com/Wednesday
In this episode, we wait out there with Mike Savlin from Kennebugport, Maine. Mike grew up in New England with a love of both fishing and art. He fell in love with fly fishing when he moved to Vermont and found flies worked better than lures. Mike's art became his primary professional focus when he stopped listening to other people and followed what truly made him happy. As a painter in the Rocky Neck Art Colony in Gloucester, Massachusetts, he was encouraged to continue painting fish by one of his art mentors. We discussed keeping things fresh in art and fly fishing, Mike's sailing voyage from New England to Key West, and how it influenced his paintings, casting to sea run brown trout, and the importance of doing the work. Welcome to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing Podcast. I'm your host, Jason Semchuk. At Wade Out There, we believe fly fishing is special but not elite, and that anyone can become a great fly fisher if they are willing to go, learn, and teach. Join me as I talk with other fly fishermen and women about their unique journeys into fly fishing, the rivers they fish, and the tactics and philosophies they practice. For those who can never leave the river in their hearts, this podcast is dedicated to helping you make the memories that keep us all coming back to Wade Out There. Welcome, Mike. Thanks for being on the Wade Out There podcast.
SPEAKER_02Well, thanks, Jason. Appreciate it.
JasonYes, I'm excited to talk to you about art and fly fishing and a lot of the things that inspire you, a little bit about your process, and I've got a bunch of questions because I'm just switching over to a new medium myself. So some of my questions would be a little selfish in that regard, but first let me ask how did you get started in fly fishing and how did you get started in art? And were they interweaved at all, or was one obvious obviously before the other?
SPEAKER_02Well, I started fishing when I was two, so other than scratch, scratch things on the you know refrigerator, I would I wouldn't really do anything. Uh I mean I didn't start fly fishing until I was probably six or seven. But um it's always been something that has been a passion of mine. And I started doing my art when, well, I can't even remember when. Uh before I was 10. And yeah, they kind of intertwined eventually. I didn't really know anything about it as far as um how I could incorporate the two. Didn't really think about it. I just uh started painting fish and landscapes and other things and you know.
JasonBut did it become obvious to you over time or did you just kind of fall into it?
SPEAKER_02I kind of just fell into it. I I never really f thought there'd be a market for it, to be honest with you. Uh yeah, I mean when I was doing it, it was uh there was no guy Harvey, you know, I mean, until like the 80s, and uh then he started coming out and he was doing pretty much t-shirts and things like that, but I never really thought of it as a viable art form, you know. Uh and then actually when I I decided to do it professionally, uh there's an artist uh on Rocky Neck called Robert Grupi, very famous guy, has a pedigree. He was always a fisherman. He said, uh, you know, if I were you, I'd be painting fish. Really? Yeah. And I said, Well, I I mean, he said, I had been painting fish at that time, but he said, that's all I'd do. I just do fish. Because, you know, look at that, look at that guy, Harvey guy.
JasonYou know, how did you get the opportunity to talk to this man? And why do you think that he gave you that advice?
SPEAKER_02Well, he uh he lives on Rocky Neck, he also has a place in Naples, Florida, but um, they've had an art school there since I think the 1800s or something like that. And uh every art new artist that showed up at the art colony, they always said, Groupie will come down and give you a bashing. And um so I was kind of waiting for my bashing, but it never came, you know. And every time we were together, or anytime I'd see him, we'd end up talking about fishing. So it never really came down to the whole art thing.
JasonMaybe that's why he didn't bash you because he was just excited to talk fishing with you. Exactly. Where is this place that people get the bashing?
SPEAKER_02Um, this is Rocky Neck. It's the oldest uh art colony in the United States. I mean, they had people there like Fitzhugh Lane, uh, Winslow Homer. Uh at one time there was over 200 studio galleries there. It's in Wommer was there? Oh, yeah, absolutely.
JasonBig inspiration for me. I love it.
SPEAKER_02Oh, he's he's awesome. But um, this is in Rocky Neck, it's uh Gloucester, Massachusetts. I don't know if you're familiar with it.
JasonUh I've heard of it. I've not heard of what is an art colony exactly, Mike?
SPEAKER_02It was um it was like a peninsula in the middle of the harbor uh that came out, and they used to have things called art colonies where all the artists would live and work, and you know, it was cheap rents and um you know low overhead so people could just do their thing and create create real art, you know.
JasonOkay, cool. It sounds like it reminds me of like Greenwich Village or something.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly, yes, or Paris or Right, yeah.
JasonThe uh the Paris folks like Hemingway and Stein, all that stuff. And you were fishing growing up in New England. And you we grow up in uh you said before the show you're in Kennybunkport, Maine now. Right now, just outside it. Were you in that area growing up as well in New England?
SPEAKER_02No, I uh I grew up in Plymouth, Massachusetts, uh down near Cape God. So I was always fishing the Cape, um, I was always fishing all the ponds and streams around my house. And my parents kind of let me run get run wild from three years old, so I'd grab a fish and rod run out the road, run out the door and be gone all day, you know.
JasonHow did you get the fly fishing into the the mix? Like what that's kind of a unique plenty of kids running around with fly poles or uh with fishing poles, right? But fly rods, that's kind of unique for a young, young kid at least. What how did that get in your hand?
SPEAKER_02My my dad kind of got me into it. And then um we'd do it off and on, you know, it's more of a I'd I'd just I'd fish whatever I had, you know. I'd I I could I'd use a cane pole if that's all I had, you know, a tree branch. But it was like uh I think when I first really got into it was when I moved to Vermont uh in my early uh late teens, early twenties, and uh realized that a spinning rod doesn't work as well in a river as you know, bouncing nymphs off the bottom or something like that, or just skating a caddis hair across the top, you know. It's uh you end up losing more lures and things like that than you know, than you catch fish. So I really started getting into it then, and uh it was kind of funny because I wasn't the typical Orbis type, you know. They were all in the river with you know all their all their gear and everything, and I'd show up in shorts, a bandana and tevas on, you know, and I'd get to the point where I'll fish all of them, which really pissed them off.
JasonAnd uh Yes, this is what I wanted to get to. All right, so give me some of them New England fly fishing tactics. What are some of the ways that you like to fish, or what were some of the things that you discovered that were helpful for you if you could think back that far?
SPEAKER_02I mean, just I I I got into nymph fishing. I I just love feeling the way you're way along the bottom, you know. It was before indicators and everything, so you really had to pay attention. Uh I love the subtle bite, you know, of a nymph where it just stops, or you know, then you get into streamers when you're locate trying to locate fish and uh using an attractor pattern or something like that, and how they how hard they hit when when they actually hit the streamer. And then, you know, I mean, trying to tie your last caddis on 10 minutes before dark because you lost them all and they're still, you know, the browns are still sipping on the surface, is uh you know, going out of your mind trying to get that last.
JasonYeah. Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. I've dropped like flies. I had I've dropped flies in the river because I'm trying to tie on fly too fast, and then I'm down to my last one. Well, now better make this one count, Jason.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. But they're all exciting, you know?
JasonYeah, for sure. And what made you go out to Vermont? What why'd you head up that way when you were young family move up there?
SPEAKER_02No, no, I just uh I moved up there um to well I was into skydiving at the time, so and bungee jumping, so it was something that they just did up in Vermont, and I loved Burlington, so uh we ended up getting a place there and ended up staying there for a while. I fished uh the Benooski River, uh Lake Champlain, um there's all kinds of little rivers there and things like that. That there's always something running. And uh in the wintertime I'd ice fish, you know. It was um I actually I actually supported myself for like an entire winter one year when I was laid off uh fishing for perch through the ice. You know, it was it was cold, but it was fun.
JasonWow. And were you so you're fishing the whole time, it sounds like just kind of part of who you are. Was your father still fishing with you then as well? Or did that, you know, you take you took off on your own?
SPEAKER_02Well, I kind of took off my own, but I every once in a while we'd meet up at uh Grand Lake Stream in Maine or something like that and fish with salmon, or I'd come down the Cape and we'd go chase stripers or you know, whatever. Yeah, we always we always tried fishing together.
JasonWhen did your art did you get ever art school or when did you start? Because w you know you start as a kid with art, drawing, and or whatever, but when when did you really become when did you think of art as more than just something that I'm doing for fun on the side, or when did you start really trying to school yourself, I guess?
SPEAKER_02When I stopped listening to other people, which took me until I was about 37 before I I finally just said um yeah, I've done everything else, and uh it just doesn't make me happy the way painting does. So I decided to finally once again take my leap of faith, and which I'd done many times before, and uh said this is it, you know, I'm burning my bridges, not doing anything else. Uh I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna give it my all, and and it worked out.
JasonYeah, that's great. I really like that when I'd stop listening to other people. What were some of the things they were telling you? I mean, they're just this isn't a career that you can make happen, or what?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. You can never make it as an artist. Uh artists don't are never famous until they're dead. Uh you'll never support yourself that way. You have to work a real job. Uh so I, you know, regardless of the fact that I literally sold my first painting when I was 16, I got so much flack all the way along the line that uh I tried to do everything else.
JasonWere you painting in high school with like classes and stuff, or was there any kind of art, formal art school?
SPEAKER_02Uh I mean I I painted in high school. Oh well, it wasn't really painting, you know, it was kind of just screwing off. It wasn't uh but I was I was doing things on my own and art school, I was I got accepted the RISD, uh the museum school in Boston, um I don't know, host Montserrat. But I talked to my friends who'd been there, and a lot of them, as soon as they were done with art school, quit art completely. Really? Yeah, they just they beat them into they it they destroyed them.
JasonWow, that is interesting to hear.
SPEAKER_02And I said, uh, well, I don't want to go that path. I'm I'm doing alright on my own. I enjoy it, you know. Uh so why should I go that path?
JasonAnd uh how does one uh I mean, how does one if you were going to apply to one of those art schools, sounds like it's not the best path for everybody, but is there like an application process, or do you have to have a work, a body of work behind you before you go down that road? Or what advice would you give to people?
SPEAKER_02I guess I guess uh if you want it to do that, you I mean you just develop a portfolio, you apply, it's just like any other college, you know. Um the better ones are a little more strict in what they expect. Um you know, uh but I I kind of had all my ducks in a row if I wanted to. I mean, uh I was working as a graphic artist for Boston Edison when I was 16, and you know, I I also did fine art on the side for myself. It was a lot different than what I do now, but um I had I had a good portfolio started because it was something I loved to do.
JasonAnd uh Do you think that if you had gone down that road you would have you would have been one of those people that kind of set put their art aside?
SPEAKER_02No, no, I don't think so. I I I think it's something that's I can't not do, you know. Uh I need to get out and do physical things once in a while because like it's like I I did construction and demolition for 20 years, you know, so that physical aspect, uh it's it's a balance. I need it, you know. I have to get out and I don't know, chop wood or do something like that. Otherwise, get crazy in my head, you know.
JasonYeah, I get it. Uh 20 years construction. So how did that go? Would did everybody know you're uh a visual artist as well at the construction site? I worked construction uh a little bit. One summer in high school I worked construction downtown Seattle. But just thinking of those guys telling them that I was an artist, you know, it would have been kind of a funny conversation.
SPEAKER_02No, they didn't uh it wasn't something that really came up that often, you know. Yeah, you know, a lot of the time I had my own business, so it was uh I didn't have anybody to explain it to, you know.
JasonRight. Yeah. Um what are some of the things that you would recommend or that you could look back on and you could say this is something that helped me get to that professional level sooner, I guess. Be you know, because you didn't go to art school and those types of things, but you've been um I guess when you were 37 was when you finally said, no, this is the thing, this is the main whole thing.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Exactly.
JasonI guess you have any advice to yourself uh that you would have passed along earlier on that art side?
SPEAKER_02I I I have no I I definitely uh believe that education is key in practice, obviously, but um, you know, uh and I'm not knocking art schools, it's just that I didn't want to uh I didn't want to be put in a box with everybody else and do the same type of things. I mean, you have academic, you have you know figure, you have landscape, and you have still life, and that's you know, you know, now abstract. But I just wanted to find my way on my own so that I had my own style. So what I did instead is I sought out masters who whose work I admired and I'd studied with them for a period of time until I learned when I needed to, and when I felt that my work was starting to emulate theirs, I would leave. And so it wouldn't be like theirs.
JasonNot like theirs. How do you know when you've got what you need from it? Because we were talking before the show, I'm changing mediums from watercolor. Sure. And pretty much decided I'm gonna go to oils, but that may change. But uh, you know, I don't know. I'm wondering how do you know when it's time to move on, either from a medium or from you know, that study.
SPEAKER_02Just straight up boredom.
JasonYeah, okay. That's the way I feel a little bit. I do that's a little bit how I feel. I'm like, you know, I need I'm just I want to do something else.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know you can do do more and do different, you know. It's um uh try not to pigeonhole yourself into one category, you know, because I get bored all the time when and these days, quite honestly, I don't I don't want to paint another fish. You know, I'd I'd rather paint nudes or something like that, you know, it'd be a hell of a lot more fun. But uh I don't know, when you when you start getting bored, pick up something else, pick up a different medium, or you know, pick up a different subject and just play with it.
JasonI think that's good advice. And I think I think it's really good advice to look to the masters, and that's something I think about with fishing as well. Fly fishing and looking at different people and that have more experience and kind of watching them and looking at the techniques that they use and and experimenting with that. Absolutely. Different type of fishing. I don't know if that's something that you see, or do you do you get bored with fly fishing and move on to another thing, or do you got your kind of thing that you like to do?
SPEAKER_02I don't really get bored with fly fishing. Um these days uh I blow my elbow out quicker than uh I get tired of fly fishing and uh end up suffering for it. But and then I'll maybe I'll just take my surf rod down and chuck plugs into the ocean, you know. But no, I I don't I don't really get bored with it. I sometimes get bored with fishing the same place over and over again. I mean, when you can name every fish in the in the in the pool, you know, then uh gets a little tired.
JasonWell, that's a good point. You know, that's another way you can stay can stay fresh with fly fishing is going to different places and like you're saying with your art, fishing, painting different things, doing different subjects is kind of a similar kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and traveling different destinations and trying different types of you know, fishing is uh always cool.
JasonWell, that's one I wanted to talk to you about too, because I honestly I didn't realize you had such a tie to New England. I I thought it was more you spent more of your time down in Florida, and maybe that's because of some of the things that you paint and and those types of things. But can you talk about your fishing uh destinations and kind of going back and forth and some of the places you've you've fished and that you enjoy fishing and some of the places that you fish that helps inspire your art?
SPEAKER_02Well, the the whole Florida thing was um I mean we'd we'd been down there a bunch of times, my wife and I, and the big thing was we bought a sailboat and decided we were gonna sail down there, and we were actually planning to sail the world.
JasonYes, okay. You're gonna bring your paints with you before you go? I painted right on the boat, man.
SPEAKER_02It was okay. I had a 37-foot catch-rate sailboat, and um we sailed it uh out of Chesapeake Bay, took like five months, and just kept stopping and you know, checking out different areas and things all the way down to Key West, and we got to Key West and said my my my wife had had it with sailing. She was like, No, we know it's sailing the world.
JasonThe sailing game is over. Really? Why? What is she not like? What was she tired of?
SPEAKER_02The last day, I I think it was the last day. I mean, we we ran into some weather a few times, and most of the time we stayed in the ICW, so it wasn't that bad, but there's some big bodies of water that uh you can get in trouble in. And um, the last day we were supposed to uh make the last 50-mile run from uh Marathon to Key West, and it was supposed to be blown like 12 to 15. We got on the seven-mile bridge, and the waves just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and the wind was getting stronger and stronger, and I'm going past uh going past the Navy base and everything, and I didn't realize they they get something that just wipes out all your electronics. So I'm trying to go along the way toward Key West and getting hit broadside by 10, 12 foot waves and threatening to roll my boat and my dog's you know in my lap. I'm trying to all the electronics go out. Um, my wife's got you know the chart in front of her, and it's just splashing water all over. We ended up going, I don't know, six, seven miles out, and then just tacking back in. And you know, well, we got back in the shore and uh we pulled into the marina and the guy said uh said he said, it must have been pretty rough out there today. I said, Yeah, it was it was it was crazy. It was supposed to be blowing like 15 miles an hour. He said it was it was blowing like 30, 35 out there, like fresh gale, you know, and it was it was a hell ride, but so my wife said, uh, I think that's it. I'm I'm not good. I don't I don't want to go out sailing anymore.
JasonHow long did it take you to do that trip?
SPEAKER_02Um from the Chesapeake or that day?
JasonUh the the whole thing, yeah, starting up north from the Chesapeake.
SPEAKER_02We uh we started out in um oh shh end of October, and we got to Key West probably in I think March, something like that. March, April. But it was a year when it was extremely cold all the way down. I I I don't know what they called it, uh bomb cyclones or some crazy El Nina.
JasonIt was El Nina.
SPEAKER_02And so we got to uh I mean we were in um Myrtle Beach, North Carolina, and um I had like snow on my deck and everything, you know. Uh we it was freezing. I mean, and we even got to St. Augustine and it was it was cold. We ended up spending like a month there because we said, let's just take a break and uh check it out, check out the area, and uh so we took our time. We only didn't experience it, you know.
JasonHow many pain? Did you get done?
SPEAKER_02Um considering I was captaining the boat every day, uh, not a hell of a lot.
JasonUm that's fair. That's fair. Where how did you set that up? Were you in in the cabin you had a kind of little easel setup? Or did you go out on the deck?
SPEAKER_02I had a pretty big cockpit, and I could take my plain air easel, I just take the the wheel off the helm, off the pedestal, put it aside, and I could sit there in my seat and and just paint.
JasonJust painting, sailing, getting things done. I like it.
SPEAKER_02Well, when I was at the dock, man, I throwing that at the same time would be difficult.
JasonOkay, okay.
SPEAKER_02Especially with my dog in my lap. She was always no, I get it.
JasonYeah, that's cool. Um, do you have a favorite species of fish to go after? Is it what's the is that some is that when the the salt water kind of became part of your fly fishing experience, or were you fishing a lot on the the sailboat?
SPEAKER_02That's that's one of the things I had I had set up set it up to do. I wanted to um make it a fishing adventure, you know, and get out on the Caribbean and maybe hop across to you know Europe or or whatever, but um yeah, that you know, it didn't work that way.
JasonYeah, I understand. Gotta keep gotta keep the wife happy. You know, then it's no fun. Then it's just two grumpy people on the boat, like not having an adventure.
SPEAKER_02Just having a just having a extended fight about you know, we basically thought it was gonna be boat drinks and bikinis all the way down, you know, and uh it ended up with me walking barefoot through the snow on the deck, you know, bundled my dog up in sweaters and uh pocket warmers and everything.
JasonSo um This is not what you promised me, Mike.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. Yeah, okay. It was a disillusionment. Disillusion.
JasonDid you go back down to Florida much and fish down there?
SPEAKER_02Um I went down last winter. Uh I haven't been back to Key West since the hurricane. Uh that kind of kind of threw me for a loop. But I have every intention of going back down there. I I may we may move back down there and open another gallery. That's we're still talking about it.
JasonBut and you have a gallery up there in uh Kenny Bunkport?
SPEAKER_02No, not at the moment. I sell online and uh that's what I've been doing for the past few years.
JasonI thought you said open another gallery. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02Oh, right, right. We had one on Duvall Street in Key West. And uh when the hurricane came, um it was I mean, it was devastated down there in the Keys. And they wouldn't let us in for weeks. The house we were renting because we sold our sailboat uh got destroyed, and there was no housing, and we had had we had adopted another dog by that time, so uh finding a place for us and two dogs was impossible. And then um, you know, the tourism took a while to pick back up, but you know, they still want rent for the place, and uh, you know, it's it's no, I understand.
JasonYeah, that sounds very challenging. Uh but that's part of the game too, right? You're an artist and exactly keep making art.
SPEAKER_02That's right. So back to your question. I think I think my favorite fish to catch has been, and it wasn't on a fly rod, but a rooster fish. Oh wow. Can you catch one of those?
JasonNo, I have no saltwater game in my blood. I am I won't say I'm embarrassed, but uh it's starting to get a little old talking to people about fly fishing and the salt and having no experience. I feel like I'm losing a little credibility with my audience, but it's okay. I I still love talking about it.
SPEAKER_02A whole new thing to get.
JasonYeah, it's exciting.
SPEAKER_02All kinds of new gear to buy.
JasonUh I've got I've got I've got big plans, Mike, but tell me about the rooster fish that you caught.
SPEAKER_02Uh rooster fish are just amazing. I mean, pound for pound, they're probably one of the hardest fighting fish I've ever encountered. I was uh, and like I said, this wasn't even on a fly, but I was down in Costa Rica and uh we were out in a little 22-foot panga, and um a buddy of mine, he's actually from Wareham, Massachusetts, but owned a uh resort down there. And uh we were trolling sardines, and I was talking to him, I said, okay, so you know I've caught a sailfish down here, I've caught Mahi. I said, you know, I've never I I can't say that I've ever had a fish just like kick my ass, you know. And uh no sooner had I said that than the reel just started screaming off the back of the ponga, and uh I tightened it up and he's like, This is you, this is you, and then uh an hour and 20 minutes later, the this fish had towed us like a mile and a half, and my arms are shaking, my buddy's laughing his ass off, my knees are weak. I mean, and it was man, uh, what a fight. I this thing, and the only reason I think I got it up because was because he tailwrapped himself. Well, it ended up being about close to an 80-pound rooster fish on like 30-pound tackle, you know.
JasonWow, uh that's cool, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It was amazing. But fly fishing down there was was great too.
JasonWhere were you in Costa Rica? Were you fishing?
SPEAKER_02Um, we lived in uh Ester Rio Soeste, and then we lived in Haka, which is just uh just north of there, and then uh uh Manuel Antonio.
JasonSo you lived down there? This was on a fly fishing trip.
SPEAKER_02No, no, we lived down there. When when we want to experience something, we we moved there, you know. It's uh I love that.
JasonYeah.
SPEAKER_02It's it's the only way to really immerse yourself in you know the culture and everything like that.
JasonSo that's one of the things I really liked about the military. People say, you know, moving around is a pain in the ass, and it was, but I even I liked being someplace long enough to have felt like I got it, you know, absolutely, absolutely. I I get this place, you know, even if it's someplace I wouldn't choose to go, you feel like you've experienced it and you've lived there and you know the culture at least more than just visiting it, you know. And even when we lived in Europe, we got to the point where when we go on vacations, we would we got tired of just traveling from like thing to thing, go see this, go see this, go see this. And it was more fun for us just to go to a small hamlet or village and just chill there for 10 days.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. Yeah, none of those all-inclusive resorts for two weeks.
JasonThat's not your style.
SPEAKER_02No, no, not at all, man. It's just uh you don't learn anything, you don't see anything, you don't yeah, that's cool. Correct.
JasonSo I want to talk to you a little bit more about your home waters in New England and just uh ask some questions about up there. Are you still fly fishing up in that area? Uh in the the small streams and ponds?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Less uh not as much as I used to. Uh I went I don't know, probably about 10 years ago, I went fly fishing with Bob White and up in Alaska, and uh it kind of ruined me for fresh water.
JasonI mean Alaska. People say that about Alaska.
SPEAKER_02You get spoiled rotten there, you know. And now it's I'll I'll go down to the beach and uh chuck flies for stripers, and they have sea run brown trout there too, which is really cool to catch, you know, you're fishing for striped bass, and all of a sudden something hits and it fights completely different, and uh uh they're pretty amazing. Beautiful, beautiful fish.
JasonWhat's one of the fish stories or what's one of the days that stands out in your mind as being memorable in the New England area around where you live in recent days or years?
SPEAKER_02You know, kind of just um just being being out there, you know, just doing it. You know, I mean, I've got a ton of fish, and some fought a little better than others and things like that. I I honestly I think when it was probably two years ago when I didn't realize that there was Cyron brown trout here, and I pulled one of those in, and it was probably, I don't know, 26, 27 inches, big, fat, beautiful gold with really sharp teeth. And uh I think that was the highlight of my last few years surf fishing around here.
JasonYeah, how does how did you find out? Do you target them now? C Run brown trout, or how did you find out about that? It was just kind of accidental.
SPEAKER_02Accidental. I mean, um the guy next to me said, Oh my god, you caught one, and uh apparently it's not something that common. But after that I caught I started catching a few more, and um every once in a while they come in, but they run right with the striped bass, you know, so they'll eat the same things as the striped bass, and they're just as aggressive.
JasonSo if you're fishing for striped bass in New England or Massachusetts, I guess, is where you're at.
SPEAKER_02Uh Maine.
JasonHere in Maine. Uh fishing for striped bass in Maine, then there's a chance that you're gonna get one of these C Run Brown trout.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
JasonWhat kind of rig are you using when you're fishing uh this type of setup?
SPEAKER_02I got an old um nine-weight Sage RPL plus.
JasonOkay.
SPEAKER_02And uh I can't remember what kind of reel I have right now.
JasonOh, that's okay. I mean, it's heavy gear though. It's nine weight.
SPEAKER_02I took it down the cape uh a couple years ago with Brian Bennett. You know him from uh Multi-Chunk?
JasonNo, I don't know Brian.
SPEAKER_02Big fly fisherman, and we chased false albacore. And uh after chucking flies all day long and pulling those things in, I was literally ready to have to duct tape my shoulder back on because it was so beat up that I didn't even want to catch another fish. It was it was crazy.
JasonWow, that's cool. And uh do you have larger uh what kind of what kind of setup do you have online? You have leaders and stuff like that when you're fishing?
SPEAKER_02Well, if you're fishing like plugs or you know, large lures, um you you around here you want to you want to use a little bit of a leader anyway, because the bluefish they'll literally chomp them right in half. And uh when I was a kid, bluefish were prevalent around here, like 20 pounders, which they're few and far between now. But we'd go down and we'd bring an entire bucket of plugs, and two hours later they'd we'd have no gear left. You know, they they would have chomped them in half and spit them back out. Sometimes it just comes back with a hook, or you know, you could literally throw just a hook into a school bluefish and you'll be on in a second. They they just eat everything.
JasonSo you've got a nine-way and uh uh and w what kind of leaders did you say?
SPEAKER_02Oh um, like oh, for for fishing stripers here, I I don't I use like I sometimes I use uh a shock tippet if I know that there's bigger fish around or something like that. But generally, um what am I using? I generally use for for stripers I use steelhead tippets, steelhead leaders. Okay, you know?
JasonYeah, yeah. If you could only fish up in that area uh two times in the year, which two days of the year would you go and how would you fish?
unknownHmm.
SPEAKER_02That was a good question. I can't even imagine that.
JasonThat's I know it's tough, but you can only pick two, Mike. You gotta get narrow it down to two days. That's how we know they're our favorite days.
SPEAKER_02I think sometime ice out up at Grand Lake Stream. Uh you don't have to say the location, but Grand Lake Stream is pretty well known. It's uh it's it's a beautiful place. Amazing place. It's almost like fish in Alaska. But uh big, big landlocked salmon.
JasonUm and when are you going up there?
SPEAKER_02Uh I I'd go like ice out just after the ice is out of the out of the rivers. And uh you know, it it's clear, it's fast, it's cold, but the fish are really starting to get vigorous and and hungry, and uh it's a good time to be be there. Uh second, hmm. I'd have to just say any day I go out striper fishing. You know, no particular day. If I get up at four and uh you know, I look at the tides and it looks right, that's a great day.
JasonSo when you're going up fishing after ice out, what are you targeting and how are you fishing it?
SPEAKER_02Um steelhead. I mean not steelhead, uh landlocked salmon and uh generally uh you know nymph with a dropper off of it and uh or in a merger.
JasonAnd when you're going striper fishing, are you just fishing from the beach mostly?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, yeah. The river models and things like that. Um you can catch up pretty much anywhere.
JasonHow do you go about deciding where to cast in a big ocean like that? Or how do you read the water, or what do you decide? Are you just kind of go until you get lucky, or do you have kind of theories or strategies?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, it's it's it's a lot like reading a stream, you know. I mean, you can see just a sandbar or something like that where they're chasing, you know, they're chasing the bait fish in. You can see a little blitz of bait fish, or or the water just starts to boil, you know. I mean, they just start feeding heavy and you cast into the middle of them, and you're you you're hooked up no matter what you do. You could be the worst fly fisherman in the world.
JasonWell, that's where I need to go then. That sounds awesome. I love that. That sounds great to me. Um is there anything on your list, there's a short list of places to go? Because it sounds like you, you know, you're a mobile fly fisher and you like to go on these different adventures. What's something that's brewing in your brain on the fly fishing front? And then I want to I want to get back into your art a little bit. Kamchatka, probably.
SPEAKER_02Uh over Russia, Russia. Um they they got the uh what are those? Oh, I can't think of the name of those trout. They're like five feet long and they usually use mice to catch them. I mean, they're massive. I can't think of the name of them right now, but I don't know.
JasonWell, you know, I'm just reading this book, um Headwaters by Dylan Tomin. And he's talking about going to Russia and he's going for like everybody wants to be catching these big trout, but he's out there for Steelhead. Oh, really? Because he's a steelhead bum, but but it sounds like a similar kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02I love Steelhead. I I fish those. I I used to live in the Olympic Peninsula in Washington. Um I I lived in Port Townsend. You said you were in Seattle?
JasonYeah, I lived in the suburbs of Seattle when I was a kid growing up. I was when we went out to the peninsula for vacation or you know, long weekends and hiking and stuff like that, but I never I you know, I didn't do a ton of hunting and fishing in Washington. When I was a kid, I we were always going to Montana in the summer, or that was where we went hunting and stuff. So I don't know. I just didn't take advantage of a lot of that stuff. Washington's such a great state for outdoor activity.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, it's beautiful, and so is Montana. I mean, yeah, yeah. If if there was ocean there, that's probably where I'd be living right now.
JasonYeah, it's got a lot of things, but it doesn't have that. Uh it's pretty dang pretty dang cold too in the winter.
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely.
JasonThat was one of the reasons we didn't quite go up there. We're in Utah now, but uh yeah, it's not quite as brutally cold in the winter, I think.
SPEAKER_02But you've got all different types of climates there, don't you?
JasonYeah, I mean, we've only been here a couple years in Utah, but um we have a short fall and a short spring so far. That's what we've experienced. But we had a long, long winter last year and a bunch of rain this summer, so it's been good for everything, really. It's been good for the rivers. And it's been bad for my personal fly fishing experience this spring and summer because the water, the rivers have all just been blown out the all the whole time because everything's filling back up, and I guess that's that's good, you know, but it's been hard on Jason. All right, let's get back to your art. I had some questions I wanted to ask you. Uh I I was looking through your Instagram, some of your social media, and I came across uh a couple paintings, but one that stood out to me that that I certainly liked, but it's called Trout and Mayfly. It's a uh painting that you did of kind of like a a fly on the water and a fish looking up at it. Um so my question is how do you why is it special to you? Why do you like that one? And how do you kind of separate yourself from that part of your brain where it's like, you know, I or maybe you don't, but when I do a painting, I'm like, I like this one. This one's good. And then somebody else, somebody buys a totally different one, or somebody will look at it and they'll be like, this one's my this one's my favorite. I'm like, what? That's like my worst one. But in my brain, I think that, but you know, so subjective, and it's hard for me to conceptualize that. Like, I know I really did a good job on this one, but it's not as popular as something else. So I get it, man. Can you talk to that painting and can you talk to that idea a little bit?
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, you've seen that you've seen that view. And I mean, what does it do to you when you when you see of you know a trout sneaking up underneath the fly and about to take it? You know, it's like you you get you get the chills and the shakes, and you know, you can't tie your fly on fast enough when you see him sitting there.
JasonThat's right, yeah, like we were talking. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh you're dropping flies in the water because uh you're fumbling with your hands. Um it's just you know, one of my favorite views, just seeing that. And I know, I mean, they have fast cameras and things like that that's you can capture that with, but I mean, that was from my head, and it was just something I love to see. I topwater things. There's something magic about, you know, a crystal clear stream and a trout just coming up off the bottom and ambushing a fly.
JasonYeah, it's a very special moment in every fly fishing experience. Is that right before the take? Uh do you find that when you're painting? Are you surprised by which paintings people like more than others or certain people? Or you're way way past that in your career, I guess.
SPEAKER_02No, no, man. Uh it's funny because what you were just saying about uh no, I didn't like that one. When we had the gallery down Key West, uh I'd have I had my studio upstairs, and my wife would come up and basically she'd know the ones that I was kind of avoiding bringing downstairs, and she'd snag them and bring them down. She'd say, This is good. And I I generally it was unbeknownst to me. So but I'd come downstairs and she'd say, I'd say, What why is that hanging on the wall? It's it's garbage, you know? And she said, Well, it's it just sold. So um apparently it wasn't garbage, yeah. Some of what I thought have been my worst pieces, people seem to really I don't know. Maybe I maybe I just have a lousy way of looking at it, but no, I don't know what it is either.
JasonI just think that it's um it's an underestimate of the difference between people and what makes people tick, right? It's just uh really not grasping the concept that people are so much different than you might think, you know.
SPEAKER_02Well again, they see it see it differently, you know.
JasonUm Right. Yeah. Okay, fair enough. Do you do a lot of work from your imagination? Like that one you said is from your imagination. Do you do a lot of that or do you I I do a lot from photography, but I don't know if you do any from photography as well.
SPEAKER_02I you know, I may use a couple of reference photos if I need something to um I'll just anatomy-wise and things like that, you know, just to keep me knowing what I'm doing. But it's pretty much every painting I I don't paint from photographs. I I just I find it boring, you know. I may as well I may as well paint a house, you know. I mean, this color goes here, this color goes here. You know, you can break it apart in Photoshop and you know use your eyedropper and pick out each color, you don't even have to know what to mix. And I like I like the process of feeling my way through it, and uh I usually do very little planning before painting just because you can let it flow, you know, um let it come from within.
JasonIs that difficult or how do you handle that with commission work? Do you um people have things they kind of want you to put into it? Do you have a conversation about what it's gonna feel like?
SPEAKER_02Or most of the time I I don't take a lot of commissions. Um they drive me nuts. But uh why? Because I don't like the restriction of it.
JasonYes, that's what I'm talking about. Yep.
SPEAKER_02You know, I I I just I want to paint what I want to paint, and um that's why I don't do galleries anymore either. I mean, I used to show them galleries, but they want you to paint widgets over and over again because that's what's selling. And I don't want to paint widgets today, I want to paint something else, and uh they get upset about that. So back to what you were asking. Uh generally, generally, when uh I I do agree to do a commission, um, first of all, I have to light the people uh because if I don't like them, then I'm not gonna do a good job because I'll resent it the whole time.
JasonOkay. That's a good start.
SPEAKER_02Then I I'll do some sketches for them, uh generally. Uh you know, I'll I'll do some sketches and uh see if we can come up with an idea together. Um, generally working closely with them so I know what you know, color palette there, looking, you know, dominant color palette and things like that. Um Looking for the feel that they're looking for, and uh I'll do three or four sketches, then you know, generally one of them is pretty much what they want, and so I start working from that. And I mean it's just a rough thumbnail. I don't really even get into detail or anything, just forms, and uh then I'll just show them images as the painting is progressing, which usually gets me in trouble because they always want changes, and which you know if you're trying to balance out a painting and somebody says, No, I like this to be blue over here, well, that makes this blue over here, and that reflection blue over there, and that turns this to a different color. And uh so it can be it can be challenging, but you know, every once in a while it's cool.
JasonYeah. I'm gonna read something that you wrote, if you don't mind. And I want to lead into a question about um the difference between inspiration and work, and doing the work uh because it's the work that you do, and doing the work because you're inspired, I guess. So you wrote, it's been some time since I have worked on smaller pieces. Actually, I have not created much in the past five years due to complete burnout, among other things, which wouldn't allow me to get not only my head, but more importantly, my heart into my work. In order to get my head back into the game, I decided to go back to basics and begin my daily paintings once again. These are small original studies that allow me to explore, try new techniques, and hopefully grow as an artist. Through these, I am suddenly enjoying and even getting lost in my painting once again. It's a wonderful feeling. So I guess can you talk to the where you were when you wrote that and that kind of place that we find ourselves in sometimes when we're trying to create things and it we're getting stuck and we're getting frustrated, and um and how you're able to kind of break free of that by just doing these smaller paintings, like you said?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, absolutely. I I you know I think I had Sid mentioned to you earlier, try not to pigeonhole yourself um into one you know particular niche because uh it's it gets boring. And when I had the gallery in Key West, uh I was painting and painting and painting every day. I couldn't keep up with the paintings there, and uh it got to the point where I didn't feel like I was doing my best work, and but I had to, I had a huge rent to pay and everything like that, and so I had to keep going. And when we finally shut that down, um it took me a couple years to just start enjoying it for what it was again, you know, and uh when you start doing it for a living, you know, you get bills to pay, you get kids, you know, things like that, uh food to put on the table, it it's a whole different animal, you know. If it's your only source of income and you go for 20 years and keep trying to come up with new ideas, you know, uh it gets a little taxing after a while. So a guy came into my gallery, long you know, short story um when I was starting out, and it could be a long story.
JasonYou don't have to keep it short. You could tell the whole story however you want to tell it.
SPEAKER_02I had a guy um when I was first starting out on Rocky Mac, I had my own art like gallery studio, and um, you know, it it a spell came where I wasn't selling anything, you know, and uh I was going out of my mind, I was painting every day, I was doing everything I could, and um, but it was the first time that I had immersed myself in that was my only form of income. And so I had this was my shot, you know, I had to prove myself. And uh I was trying too hard and I wasn't selling. And uh this guy came in one day, he was actually uh he did his wife's marketing, she was an artist, and um we got to talk and then we hit it off immediately, and uh he said, Have you burned one? And I looked at him like, what are you talking about? And he said, take one of the paintings that you have in here and burn it. He said, Um you're too close to it and it's too important to you. So if you can destroy one, especially one you like, then it'll become more about doing the work and less about the money. And sure as shit, um I burned one and started selling again and started enjoying my work again. And it's the same thing with the daily paintings, uh just going back to something that's is irrelevant to what I'm usually doing. You know, it's just about the process, it's just about enjoying the journey. Uh and if it sells itself, if it doesn't, I throw it in the corner and do another one, you know, and um it's more back to making it less about the money and survival as it is about what comes from inside and doing what you want to do.
JasonThat's a great story. That makes a lot of sense. Sounds like it worked out. And did that help you not just in that place, but was that helpful also moving forward with different subjects and me not maybe mediums, but different things that you you can turn to to not, in your words, get bored? Like I know that you've been doing abstract work. Yeah, that's cool. I don't know how recent that is. I mean, it's recent to me and my following of you, but I don't know how recent it is for you, but it seems recent. Is that uh is that story kind of a way that unlocked that type of a thing for you? Where you even considered those types of things?
SPEAKER_02You know, I never knew a lot about abstract. I never never really found it interesting or anything like that until probably ten years ago. I saw a Picasso in a museum, and it was amazing. It was a jewel. I like I looked at it, I I stood there for an hour just studying it, and and I started to like understand, you know, why he did what he did. And um I never had the balls to try it, but like a couple months ago I had a big canvas I was working on, and I think I had mentioned in the story that it was actually a couple of whales that I was working on, and I just said this this sucks, and I started just slapping pain everywhere.
JasonI'm sure it didn't suck, but I understand what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02It it just I just started slapping pain everywhere, and it was man, it was like um I don't know, I haven't felt that feeling. It was so freeing. Yeah, I just started you know scraping it off here and then slapping it on over here, and then well, maybe this color would look good here, and all of a sudden it became like channeling and a meditation, you know. Um, I lost myself completely. And then I think my wife probably came in or something and and said, Oh my god, that's I love this.
JasonYeah. It sounds like your wife is a very important person in your in your life, and also in your professional life. Can you talk a little bit about that about her and that relationship and how she's been supportive of you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she um I met her when I was actually uh at my first studio gallery on Rocky Neck. She had a little gallery across across the the way, and uh we met and hit it off, and I don't know, she she just has the same mindset as I do. Well, a lot of the time, uh not always, but um but she's always been very supportive, you know. Okay, you wanna you wanna move to Costa Rica? Let's let's move to Costa Rica. Okay, uh, you know, you wanna go to Alaska, look go go to Alaska, let's move cross country, let's let's do whatever. And she's always been you know, if if things aren't going well, she's she's my rock, you know. She keeps pushing me and um doesn't expect a lot, but knows that uh if we work together, we can we can do great things, you know, and uh we've gone a lot of places and done a lot of things as a result.
JasonDo you find that the places you go help with inspiration, or do you think that it's more like we're talking about doing the work? Like a lot of people say they they don't put much credence or they don't push much value on inspiration because inspiration is fleeting, but you know, habits and doing the work is you know pr more professional, I guess. So do you find that a balance there, or do you use kind of your travels and to feed your creativity?
SPEAKER_02I do, I do, but only after I've left. You know, it's just like a fishing trip. I I rarely take a camera with me or anything like that. It's all about how I interpret things. You know, like I didn't uh I'll I'll paint Costa Rica now because the memories are still bright and vivid, but they're how I want to remember them, you know, and when I'm there, I get so immersed, you know, just looking around and uh enjoying it for the moment or trying to that uh I'm trying not to think about work and things like that or selfies or any of that.
JasonUh that's good though. That's that means that you are enjoying the present, right? And you're not setting yourself up for the future as much.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. And you know, that's one of the things I I I dislike about social media is you know, people just don't enjoy the moment anymore. You know, it's all about proving where you were or proving who you were with, and you know, it's it's I think it's soul crushing.
JasonSo Well, there's only there's only that moment, right? The only real reality is that the next like one to three seconds, that's the only that's the only place you actually are, right? Everything else is a memory or an expectation for the future. That's right. Um so that's something that I've thought a lot about is trying to live, be present, you know, with everything I'm doing.
SPEAKER_02Makes a big difference.
JasonBut that also means if you want to be happy, then you better be putting your place putting yourself in places where you can look at the moment and be happy that you're there, right?
SPEAKER_02That's that's one of the drawbacks, man.
JasonYou have to you have to do the things, right?
SPEAKER_02That's right. That's right.
JasonOh, that's great. Uh what advice do you have for an artist that is changing mediums or changing uh, you know, they they want to find a new view or new a new perspective or a new medium or something like that. This is obviously a selfish question, but that's you know, what do you what would you say that was are some of the things that you would think about?
SPEAKER_02Get the medium, get the canvas, do it, and if you screw it up, do it again, you know?
JasonGet to work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. And you know, I mean, maybe maybe try three new mediums at the same time, or maybe maybe incorporate them, or you know, just let yourself go.
JasonYeah, that's something that I'm just I'm very grateful to have had the opportunity to talk to you because even just in the little bit that we talked before the show and now I'm realizing you know there's all different types of mediums. And I see this too when I have people on the show, like I've had metal workers on the show that work in and that's a totally different medium than I'm used to, right? But who knows? Maybe if I got into that, right, it would be I would just love it, right? And so uh I think that this conversation for me really has helped me think about the different opportunities, like the different opportunities that I have in fly fishing to go different places, fish different rivers. That that's become obvious to me through talking to different people that fly fish all over the country and world and stuff. That's like a no-brainer, but what's been harder to uh uncover is what I'm discovering now, which is there's all that in art too. There's all different things, something really cool that uh I'm I don't even I don't even know about yet, right?
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly, man. And until you try them, that's you know, you'll never know. I mean, you gotta get to that one place where everything else just disappears, like when you're on a river, you know, by yourself.
JasonYeah. Well, when you talk about being on the river by yourself and being in the moment and that type of thing, that that puts me in a place similar to when you describe. I'm at the canvas and I start moving art around and I'm doing the abstract stuff, uh, a very similar type of focused present moment. Do you find when you're not doing abstract? Because a lot of your work, I wouldn't say abstract, but it's very loose. Yeah, it's not um I don't it's not a picture of a permit that you're gonna see a picture and it's not gonna look like a picture of a permit. You know what I mean? I mean, it's it's obviously a bluefish, or it's obviously a permit or a trout. It that's obvious, but it's not like the picture. And that's something my father told me too. He's like, Jason, you're not taking photographs, you're making art. It's not gonna look, it doesn't have to look like that. It doesn't have to be realism like exactly you know, some crazy thing like that.
SPEAKER_02I I mean, I I used to do realism. That's what what I started out. I I actually started out one of the things I started out with was um doing uh reproductions of people's catch and release fish. You know, I I was doing them in colored pencil and selling them and I donated them and things like that.
JasonBut so paintings of people's fish that they caught.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. Well, I was using colored pencil, but um that was I don't know, late 80s, but uh it gets boring, man. It's boring, and it's not you, it's not your work, you know, it's not your soul.
JasonSure, I understand that.
SPEAKER_02I only want it to be believable enough, you know, that's you know, you you know what it is, but you know, maybe the colors are just crazy on it, you know. You never see those colors, but who's to say you wouldn't see those colors?
JasonYeah. Yeah. Do you think though that it's important to to have that experience to do those types of things, to get those reps in before you are able to have find your style or or change your style? I guess this is more of a question about style.
SPEAKER_02No, that that'll come naturally. You know, I mean, do do the technical things, you know, paint the houses. You get you gotta you gotta do those for a while.
JasonBut that's what I'm saying. Do you think that it's important to do that, that you have to do that before you can actually move on to something more creative?
SPEAKER_02To an extent, sure. But you know, take one of your paintings that you you you meticulously did every every little thing that you felt you were supposed to do, and then throw a splatter of paint over it, you know, and just see how that looks, you know, or or just take one of your brushstrokes and run it off the page or the canvas, you know, and see how that looks. And you can always go over it with gesso or something afterwards and and redo it if you if you feel it's wrong. But experiment and just like let your inner beast out when you're when you're painting, you know.
JasonYeah, okay. Before we start wrapping it up, Mike, I want to make sure that I'm not missing anything and uh anything about your art that you want to pass along or anything that you think is important for artists and fly fishing artists to to know about because there's a lot of the other thing I'm learning is there's there's tons of artists in fly fishing with all these different mediums, right?
SPEAKER_02And so now there are now there is, yeah. I would hope it wasn't that's right.
JasonThat's right. But are there um things you'd did you you'd say those folks? Hopefully some of those people are listening to the show right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, find your own style, you know. Um I think what what you're talking about with um uh uh realism and hyper-realism, I mean, it's nice, but uh I've always said, you know, uh art without imagination is kind of like sex without the orgasm. You know, it's not it gets boring after a while, you know. And if you don't find your own happy medium, you're not gonna feel like you're doing your true art, your own art. And AI is gonna wipe out any realism, you know, realistic artist that there is out there, I think. You know? I mean, in history, can you name one realist that is famous?
JasonUh John Muir.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
JasonAlright. He's doing like Yosemite and stuff, right?
SPEAKER_02But not many. I mean, in the to everything else.
JasonNot a lot. Even I would say, even like Charlie Russell is not a realist. Remington, Frederick Remington.
SPEAKER_02I love Remington's work.
JasonYeah.
SPEAKER_02He had his own style.
JasonHe had his it's not really realism either. Yeah. So yeah. That's good. So let me ask you this then, Mike. Uh, how do you find your style? What advice for finding your style? Just get the reps in, just keep going, working. There's no real shortcuts.
SPEAKER_02No, there isn't, unfortunately. You know, um uh I you know, you can take different things from artists that you admire. I mean, somebody's coloring or the way they do uh a brush stroke or things like that. I mean, every artist's chisel marks are their own. It's like a fingerprint, you know, um, no two alike. But I mean, just go to museums, get ideas, you know. I like the way he did the light in this particular painting. How can I incorporate that someday into something I'm doing, you know, or you know, it doesn't even have to be very close to what it was done, but just the effects. Um and it'll come naturally.
JasonThat's something that I've started doing. I've read I'm reading the I'm reading this book called The Artist's Way. Oh yeah. I know that you know that book? I do, yeah. Okay. So I'm doing the morning pages, uh, but I'm also starting to do more trips to art museums and stuff, like little the the artist date or whatever. And it's just like you said, there's stuff you see, and it seems so obvious. Like, why wouldn't I, uh as an artist, go try and do things like that, right? But I think it's because for me it's just been not it's been something I haven't done for so long. I've not I've not been interested enough, or I haven't been this hasn't been a part of myself for long enough to kind of go do that type of a thing. Sure. That it's just escaped my reality, it's just escaped my kind of list of things to do, you know. Uh but yeah, there's tons of stuff that I observe and see, and uh the thing that's also been helpful is it shows me like so many artists are doing things, they're trying to like communicate, you know, they're trying to say something with the art. Absolutely. It's not something I've thought a lot about with my own artwork, but when you go into some of these museums, you're like, whoa, okay, this guy's or gal has really they got something to say here. Totally, absolutely. All right. Anything else?
SPEAKER_02Nothing I can think of, man.
JasonBefore I ask you my last question, Mike, how can people find out more about you, check out your work, and follow along on your fly fishing journey and then your art journey as well?
SPEAKER_02Hey, you know, uh I'm going to unfortunately I'll be starting a blog again because I I I want to get away from social media. And so I'll be quitting social media soon. I just have no it doesn't do anything for me. You know, I I don't like it. And um, so I'll be starting a blog again. I actually got it ready, and now it's just a matter of putting in the days. And I used to have one, I did a couple throughout my life, and um it met some good people and uh and got some good interactions. So my website, Savin Studios, um that's probably where it'll be.
JasonSavlinstudios.com?
SPEAKER_02Correct, yes.
JasonOkay, so people can go there obviously to see your work and then any kind of messaging or information that you want to get out that people will be able to find on the blog, which will be at the website.
SPEAKER_02Right, right.
JasonOkay.
SPEAKER_02Or just give me a call.
JasonOkay. We won't put your phone number out there.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's on my website, so okay. You can probably get my wife because I half the time I don't even know where my phone is, but all right.
JasonGo to salvinstudios.com. We'll link to that in the show notes for people so they can see your work. Thank you. And buy painting or buy print or just check it out and hear what you have to say on your blog.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic.
JasonLast question. You ready?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
JasonIf you could go back to when you first started fly fishing and give yourself two pieces of advice, one more tactical and one more philosophical. What would you tell yourself to help you progress as a fly fisher?
SPEAKER_02Go meet Lefty Cray sooner than later. Maybe he can teach you how to cast around the corner, like is still impossible to me. And philosophical. Um, uh maybe just get out there and do it as much as possible. There's no nobody promised tomorrow, so guys I'll do it today.
JasonI like it. Good one to end on. Nobody promised tomorrow. That's good advice. I've really enjoyed talking with you. I know we talked a lot about art, and we talked a little fly fishing in there as well, but I think that a lot of the themes in fly fishing and art are similar. So it's been a pleasure talking to you. I really appreciate all the advice uh that you've given me, you know, before and during the show as well. So thanks for uh your time, and I wish you well with your new blog and all the art you've got piled up. All the art you're putting out there into the world, man. I love it.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, man. I appreciate it. It's been a pleasure.
JasonThanks for listening to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing Podcast. You can learn more about some of the topics we discussed in today's episode show notes. For more fly fishing ideas, stories, and artwork, check out my blog and online gallery at waitouthair.com. If you want to make Wade Out There a part of your own fly fishing journey, please subscribe and share. Until next time, Wait Out There.