WOT 30: The Creative Journey and Fly Fishing Art with A.D. Maddox

In this Episode we Wadeoutthere with A.D. Maddox from Livingston, Montana.  A.D. is a fly fishing artist who has been painting all her life, and is passionate about helping others on their own creative journeys.   Her unique style of oil painting captures the beauty of trout in their natural environment.  We discuss the importance action and how to foster confidence through your work, why self-invalidation is so toxic, and how she recently re-discovered her love of fishing.

If you want to view or purchase A.D. Maddox's art,  visit her website at:
https://www.admaddox.com/

For more fly fishing stories, lessons learned, and artwork check out my blog and online gallery at: 
https://wadeoutthere.com/

Sign up for Jason's free email newsletter (WadeOutThere Wednesday) at WadeOutThere.com/Wednesday

Transcript

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Jason 0:00

In this episode, we wait out there with A.D. Maddox from Livingston, Montana. A.D. is a fly fishing artist who has been painting all her life and is passionate about helping others on their own creative journeys. Her unique style of oil painting captures the beauty of trout in their natural environment. We discuss the importance of action and how to foster confidence through your work, why self-invalidation is so toxic, and how she recently rediscovered her love of fishing. Welcome to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing Podcast. I'm your host, Jason Chefchuk. At Wade Out There, we believe fly fishing is special, but not elite, and that anyone can become a great fly fisher if they are willing to go, learn, and teach. Join me as I talk with other fly fishermen and women about their unique journeys into fly fishing, the rivers they fish, and the tactics and philosophies they practiced. For those who could never leave the river in their hearts, this podcast is dedicated to helping you make the memories that keep us all coming back to Wade Out There. And uh it's a real pleasure to have you. Thank you for uh coming on.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Well, thanks for having me.

Jason 1:21

Yeah, no problem. Um, I'm a huge fan of your art, uh, and I'm gonna I can't wait to talk about all the other things that go into your art uh that is very inspiring for me, and hopefully we can bring some of that stuff to other people that are listening as well. But uh I have to I have to start with this, okay? Uh we were preparing last night and uh we're kind of going over some of the technical stuff for the show. Right. And and uh um and it kind of evolved into a conversation, just a brief conversation we had about art and and hopefully a lot of the things that we're gonna talk about today, which uh that's what I'm so pumped about to talk about. Um, but it ended up being one of the most valuable conversations that I've had with anybody about my art. Now I haven't been doing this for a super long time, but um we talked a lot about those things, and at the end of the conversation, I don't know if you remember, you probably remember, but you're like, go paint a terrible painting tonight.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Yeah, right.

Jason 2:19

Seriously, and I I was like, oh yeah, that's great, you know, like put your fears aside and like and I'll go paint a painting. And then and then AD, you're like, no, seriously, Jason. And I felt like I I wish I could have recorded it because I felt like you like reached through the phone and you were like shaking me, like you have to do, like, go. It has to be horrible, it has to be like the worst painting ever. Don't paint a good one, paint a bad one, really bad. Yeah, really bad.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, I know even the bad one that you posted that you said was bad was actually pretty flipping good.

Jason 2:51

Well, that's what I wanted to say. Is as I was going through the exercise, right? I was starting to realize, okay, wait a minute. This I'm starting to like this. I'm supposed to be painting something bad, but now I like it. So now am I not doing what she said? I don't know, but I'm just gonna keep painting. So yeah, it was it was really good. Uh so I wanted to thank you really personally, not just for that last night, um, but also for where because I painted the next night and I painted uh the next night, you know, like it just it changed something uh about the way I approach art. Uh we can talk more about that later. I've got that kind of on the agenda here, but I just wanted to start saying that's a really good subject, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yeah.

Jason 3:31

Yeah. Um I just kind of let go. Um, but you know, I want to ask you, why do you think why do you think before we get too much further, why do you think it's so important to be willing to paint a bad painting? And for people that are listening that aren't painters or artists per se, I think it still applies. But why do you think that?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Because well, I can't speak for anyone else because and I don't want to evaluate for anyone else, but for me personally, for I went through a real period of um it's always having to paint perfect, you know. Everything I was touching, I wanted to make sure it was perfect. It was perfect, almost like I was afraid to make mistakes and I was afraid to mess up, and I got very rigid and tense and felt like I had some barriers, and it was uh it caused a bit of um paralysis in my painting. So that that exercise is to free up your energy flows to go ahead and confront painting a bad painting. What's gonna happen to you? You probably find out that you're still breathing after this thing gets done. You're you're you're still breathing oxygen and and and also too the with with making artwork, everything that I do is right in my face. So painting a really bad painting can be incredibly invalidating for me as an artist because I'm looking at something that's atrocious. Now, what I want to take from it is my choice, but if you intentionally paint something really bad, it's a win because you meant to do it.

Jason 5:27

Right, you controlled it.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Yeah, so your cause. You caused it, you wanted to cause it, it gives you a lot of power. You know you can paint a bad painting, but the funny thing is, is usually when you try to paint a bad painting, it's gonna be really good. So it's a confidence, it's a confidence booster. And um, you know, be willing to experience anything. Wow, that's that's easy to say that, right? Be willing to experience anything, a bad painting, a good painting, whatever. You can apply that to life. Um, but sometimes it's it can be very difficult. Um, so it's almost like the worst case scenario. What is it? Well, go ahead and causatively do that so you can confront it and find out that you're still breathing. It's not that big of a deal.

Jason 6:15

And then you just keep pressing.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Oh, yeah.

Jason 6:19

Uh, what do you mean by in my face? What the art is in my face, the painting is in my face.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

You're you're right there doing it. You're looking at it, it's right in your face. I mean, you finish a piece, it's staring right back at you. Yeah, your creation is sitting there going, Wow, man, I'm really, really ugly. I'm really hurting today. That's why you know, backlogged pieces I destroy a piece that I started that I know I'm not going to finish. I'll get out my X-acto blade and absolutely chop up the whole thing into little bits. It's a done deal.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Yeah, just get rid of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Destruction of backlog because unfinished cycles of action, things that you've started that you didn't finish will hang up in your mind and take attention units off of what you're doing. It's still back there, and you can even say to friends, I've got so much to do because of your backlog. Destroy it, destroy it, tear it up, shut it, big Zacto blade, hammer, whatever.

Jason 7:18

Yeah, I had a painting like that very recently, actually. And you know, one of the reasons why I was so excited about the exercise of painting a horrible painting. Like you said, for it was it was all those things that you just said. Um, but I was in a similar place where I felt like I I just was really trying to make something specific, uh, and and it helped me grow a lot. But um I wonder what you uh I found when I was doing it, I was working really quickly, you know, I wasn't thinking as much. Yeah. Do you find a balance between this is really getting into something like I said I was gonna talk about later, but do you find a balance, how do you find a balance between like precision and fluidity? Because there has to be precision. I mean, when I look at your work, there's definitely your your your I don't know, I don't want to sit speak for you, but there's deliberateness. I mean it it looks it's not abstract, you know. It's it's a I can tell you're trying to do it. Are you are you moving quickly? Or I guess that's process. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

But no, no, I feel like you're you're totally fine. That's that's not prox process.

Jason 8:32

Um I I faster the faster I go, it seems like the less I uh I start to lose control a little bit, and I don't know, it's like a fine line I walk.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Well, here's where I see where you're going with this question. I want to point this out. Um, and I think you and I touched on this the other night when we were talking. Thinking and painting are verbs. Okay. Yeah, painting is an action. Well, thinking is an action. You're either gonna do one or the other. I can't think and paint.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

I I don't do any thinking when I paint, like none.

Jason 9:18

That's good. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Because if I'm thinking, I'm not painting.

Jason 9:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

And if I'm thinking about painting, I'm not painting. So when I'm not painting, uh I I've had I'm not gonna mention names. I've had artists ask me, you know, want to talk about art when I'm off the easel. I don't want to talk about art when I'm off the easel. I am off the easel, man. I want to go play. That's play time. And and I don't like to think when I paint. I've trained myself to just paint.

Jason 9:53

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

And now I do work from photographs. That's how I visually I've I've always I think I I'm starting to recall you and I were talking about this stuff, but um I do work very closely with my photographs because the photographs hold all the information, how the light falls over a subject, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

So a fish in the water, if if I want to manipulate, change, take out, and tweak whatever I want to, I do that.

Jason 10:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

But I'm always making observations when I paint of of the information or looking at what I'm painting. And and I I I just see and then I do, right? Yeah, it's it's real, it's real simplistic.

Jason 10:53

I'm with you. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah. So you you asked about like you know, moving real fast. Well, if you're not used to doing that and you're used to being a thinker, there's gonna be some adjustments and moving into fluidity and actually painting and letting yourself go and being free to flow and move and place your paint, uh, and play with it, manipulate it, uh on your palette, change things around. But as long as you're in action moving, you're gonna flow. The minute you start thinking, no good.

Jason 11:35

Well, that's like you said, that's in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

For me, for me, there might be an artist that's gonna say, Oh, heck no, man. I have to sit down and look at my work and do a lot of thinking. Well, good for you. I do not, right? I I don't do that. Yeah.

Jason 14:10

You say you work from photographs and um it captures a lot of the the um the dimensions or the the aspects of the fish, and you paint other things as well. I love your work with horses and uh the leopard series, it's very good. Um I would think that those help because you can't just it's hard to stand outside and like you can look at a mountain or you can look at a landscape. You it's harder to do that with a fish because they're so mobile and they're under the water. So you you have to kind of like capture it and bring it out. But you're living in a pretty good place uh to do that, right? Out in Montana.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Oh, absolutely. It's one of the reasons why I moved back out here was to get this gallery and to be able to go out and and get more into uh get get more connected to fly fishing because living in in the heart of downtown Nashville, um, you know, it's concrete jungle, huge production to go fishing, or I flew here to go fishing because we have a house south of town. Um but yeah, yeah, I have to have hands-on and and and start creating this. So when I've gotten into the photography, um I've I've I'm I'm not very good with photography, but I'm learning, I'm being humbled by photography. Yeah.

Jason 15:39

Um so can I read something? I want to read something from your your website. It's part of your introduction, so it's about you and your past. Um, and it says AD Maddox was born in Nashville, Tennessee. She was raised in an artistic environment and has been painting for as long as she can remember. After traveling extensively in her 20s, she settled down in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, where she began her professional career painting Western art. So why Jackson Hole and why why trout? Why, why, um, you know, why Western art and why specifically trout and fly fishing, and what what made that happen for you?

SPEAKER_00 16:18

This this this Jason, this is such a flippant story, it's very flippant. Um I knew from the time that I was six that that I that I was a really good artist. Because I looked around at everyone else who was painting and drawing, and theirs wasn't anything compared to mine. Sorry if my classmates are listening. It was an observation. Um and and my parents would always take us out every Christmas, around Christmas to go to Jackson Hole or Colorado to go skiing. And this is when Jackson was very small. Okay. Uh and and I really had a connection with the mountains. I it was so different from the south. Um, I loved the snow and I I loved um the freedom of being in the mountains. Um and the weather, I loved the the snow and everything about it. You know, I could go on and on about the mountains, but it really resonated with me. Um so when when when I I kept going there and and I was at school in Boulder, Colorado, and um way back when I'm not gonna tell you guys how old I am.

Jason 17:45

Um studying art?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

No, I never studied art.

Jason 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah, hence no thinking, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

So so I uh my my dad paid for a spring break from college for flew me to Jackson Hall and got me a hotel. And I was all excited. I went by myself, and you know, I'm at the age where I can go and do whatever I want to do pretty much if whenever I get out of college, and I just thought, you know, I've got to move to Jackson Hall. And I just said I'm gonna move, I'm gonna move there because I loved it. Everything about Jackson, I loved.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah. I mean, just from going there.

Jason 18:29

Did you fly fish in college or did you fly when did you start?

SPEAKER_00 18:33

No, and I'm just wondering if the art drove you. No, I'll speed up into the story. So I went to I went to Jackson Hole, then I left and went back to college, then I moved back to Jackson Hole when I was 27, and I was already painting professionally, and I wanted to get into the galleries. So they wouldn't let me in the big galleries because I was an unknown name. Fine. Um, I had this great idea that I'd start painting furniture, and the gallery owner at one of the big galleries um on the square found out I was painting furniture. She came by my by my home, and and she was the one who told me to paint trout. No, I'd never trout fished prior to that. I bass fish, but she told me to paint some trout on a piece of furniture. She wanted to put it in the gallery. And you know, I'm thinking, oh, hell yeah, I'm gonna do that. Uh I'm I'm gonna get if I can't get in the walls, I'm gonna get on the floor and crawl my way up the walls at a plan. So the first trout piece I did, uh it sold in like 20 minutes for a thousand bucks, which is for you know, I think I was 27 or 28 at the time. That was a really big deal for me, and it's not a very common story, I don't think. Um, but a big prominent family in Jackson bought this piece, and I was seeing dollar signs. Um, so that's how the trout began, and I kept painting trout, but I hadn't fished. So I I was showing in uh Sun Valley and Ketchum, and uh uh the owner of the Sagebrush Gallery wanted to give me a show on canvases. Well, you know, I wasn't doing canvases, I was doing furniture. So now I've got to paint canvases trout. And Tom Montgomery from Jackson Hole helped me out with photographs, and I started working with these photographs. So then the next thing I've got to start fishing and getting photographs of the fish, and use back when we had print film, right? And so that began like catching the fish and taking the photographs and a whole nother, you know, tons of adventure. And then every single year I did a show in the summertime, and the trout kept selling, and I needed money because I live off my art and I have to pay my bills, right? So I didn't get out of the fishbowl, and then along came the companies in the fish department. So now I'm really in the fishbowl. I understand, and and I'm fishing, I have to fish to catch, you know, it's a big, it's I'm on a treadmill, right?

Jason 21:20

It's a vicious cycle, A D.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah, you gotta you gotta fish, you gotta get the photographs, and then then I start working from other people's photographs, you know, with permission. Yeah, and uh and and then of course when you get known, uh that can that can run into a lot of stuff too when your stuff goes to merchandise with photographers thinking they own your artwork. That's really funny to me.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

So I won't go into that, but um so here we are uh a long time later. A long time later.

Jason 22:02

So as you um have continued down this path, has fly fishing become something more that you enjoy? You mentioned earlier that it's playtime. I want to do other things and not than not uh paint. I want to um I want to go in the mountains or I want to ride motorcycles. Is fly fishing one of those things for you? Does that give you a a release from painting more than an inspiration, or is it both at the same time kind of?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Um I I think yes, the answer to that question is yes, but I mean you talked about inspiration. Well, I mean, I I don't it inspiration's a really funny thing. What you know, if you want to break down what what inspires the painting, it's real simple. I love to paint and I'm really good at it, and and I love to do it. So whether I'm painting a horse or going out photographing, I mean the the photographs that I get that I want to paint inspire the paintings, but the drive to get on the easel is in in inside of me that only I can unleash.

Jason 23:19

That's just you. That's what you do.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

That's what I do. Or uh painters paint, writers write, photographers shoot, runners run. It it is part of who I am. It's a beingness of who I am. I I am a painter and I love to paint. That's right. Painting jeans, painting a wall, painting anything. I love to have that brush wet painting. That's it.

Jason 23:43

It's something that has um brought a lot of meaning to me as well, with some of the creative things that I work on, or that I see other people. It's like um the funniest analogy that I've heard, it's kind of like what you said, but like if you're a plumber, you don't get plumber's block, like you go do your job, you know? Like a plumber doesn't say, Oh, I just I've got plumber's block. I can't go, I can't go to work today, you know. And if you're a painter or a writer or whatever, um, and I didn't I didn't come up with this. I'm stealing this, but but you know, you gotta go do it. Um, so I think that that's cool. It's cool to hear you say that as well, that it's just part of you and that you love it so much. You know, it must be it's easier to do that type of thing if it's just who you are and what you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah, I would push it with me. It's in a category. I'm obsessed with it. Like freaky obsessed. I I mean I I through this door in my home is is my gallery and my my easels right there. I mean, I will paint till one and two in the morning. As long as this body can stand and operate and my concentration's good, I'm I'm on the easel. Um, I'm yeah, I'm obsessed with it, such a game. The whole thing is that's what I'm saying.

Jason 25:00

Do you do you you said um before we move on to um a couple other things? I wanted to hit on you said um you know you talked about I'm not thinking, I'm painting. Yeah. Um is that part of what you like about painting? Is that is the I is the detachment from everything else and being just absorbed in your work and the in the being of kind of in the moment? Is it do you like that? Is that something that you're like, I love being able to detach like that?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's the great escape. Anyone who knows me really well knows that my happiest place to be is in action painting. Because things that bother me, things that are you know going on, I have to leave them behind because I have work to do.

Jason 25:59

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

It is the great escape, right?

Jason 26:02

Sure. Well, yeah, one of the reasons I bring that up too is because a lot of people that I talk to uh have a similar they say a similar thing about fly fishing. Um and and even tying flies, especially a lot of um of veterans and things like that that that are trying to no no kidding, like trying to take like focus on one thing to move to a different place where they're only in the moment, only doing this thing, much like you describe. Um and it makes me, you know, it makes me think about fly fishing too, where a lot of people consider fly fishing an art form. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

And it is, yeah.

Jason 26:40

So if you can get lost in your art like that, and you can get lost in fly fishing, I see these connections in photography and writing, the parallels are there where you're getting lost in it and creating something unique of value for somebody at for the world, right? And I think that that is a lot of art, and um uh and so I think your words are important, like I said, not just for painters, but for kind of anybody that's in that kind of in that in that arena or in that world or recognizes that is going on.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Well, I I'll give you a couple of scenarios, okay? So you can think of a time if if you ever needed to go do something, but you you got wrapped up in your head thinking about something else, or you know, you're where you're thinking and you're going over something in the past, right? Or you're just watching TV. If you're watching TV, it's this inflow of all this energy. If you're thinking about something in the past, or going over in your mind something that happened yesterday and trying to sort through a problem that happened yesterday. I mean, for me, the the the I guess the scenario is then you take another person who's uh building a company, going out fishing, time flies, creating artwork, going for a run. You see, there's there's two types of of living. You can either be a spectator or you can be involved in it. You can be actually you know living and in every form of living. You know, be willing to to not be in control of where you're going or what you're gonna do. Just just I mean, what I've I've heard it said, if you really want to experience living on a high level, go to a city with one dollar in your pocket. You'll start living. You're gonna start living really fast. So um there's a time and a place to go breathe and relax, but you gotta balance inflows of energy and outflow of energy. Creating is an outflow of energy, TV is an inflow of energy. And uh those two, in my opinion, for me, obviously I can only speak for myself again, that I have to balance the the I have to balance it, and I prefer actually to be on the outflow of constantly creating and in the summertime that is you know, being immersed in life and going on all these wild adventures. Yeah, last summer I started conquering a lot of fears, things that really scared me. Yeah, driving out in the middle of nowhere by myself in a car, you know. I've watched too much dateline, and uh and you know, it scares me. I'm in bear country, but I needed to confront it to to uh to grow.

Jason 29:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

I I don't want to be bound by fears, you know.

Jason 29:54

I do, I do know. And when you talk about living life and not being a spectator and being involved, those there's a lot of fears that that cause that dynamic to move more towards one end of the spectrum, right? If I have if I allow all these fears to uh prevent me from being involved, um so even somebody like you, uh I would say it's it's interesting to hear that even someone who is, I would say, very involved, right? Very involved in their life still acknowledges those things as things that they have to push through to continue to move forward.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

So yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that's why you know we're talking about the painting. Go, you know, go waste some canvases.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Go go put holes in them. Uh destroy anything you can do, destructive. Go go use tons of paint, buy boxes and tons of more tubes, whatever you want. Just have feel like you can really use this stuff. There's not any stuck flows of energy. And uh yeah, the fear is a big one. That is a big one that I have come across with with uh myself, and I've I uh I got off drugs about 17 years ago, and I had a lot of fear that I had to work through in painting uh without uh prescription drugs, and it and I had to work through all this fear. I mean, I I was paralyzed. Fear that it wouldn't be as good anymore, or yeah, no, I was uncomfortable standing at the easel without being high on my drugs, and I was on uh uh Adderall and Ritalin and all that crap for you know, whatever. So so uh I got off everything and and I had to work through, oh my god, so much uh feeling uncomfortable, which I know is not uncommon for many artists out there, feeling uncomfortable. So I just had to work through. I had there's a thing I call taking your wins. It's like maybe maybe maybe I didn't paint eight hours, but or maybe I can't paint four hours when I started, but maybe I painted two and I went for a motorcycle ride. Well, take a win on painting two. It's this attitude of uh you know building yourself up and working through a block, working through fears. Uh take a win on every great thing you do that is flowing towards a behavior that you want to change. Uh and and so I I am real real big on working through fears lots of times.

Jason 32:45

You mentioned earlier uh the inspiration and what inspires people is kind of a unique thing, but you also said that you really enjoy inspiring people and that uh and that talking through these things you you like that people can get inspired by um your work and your ideas. Would you say that's that's true?

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Oh, it's I absolutely love it. I I love helping people with with the the barriers they come in contact with because God knows I've run into a slew of them since I've been doing this my whole life.

Jason 33:23

Well, that's what I wanted to talk about next, and it goes into a little bit of the fear, but yeah, um the in the inspiration and the mental side of the art and all those types of things. And when I say art, you know, like I said earlier, it's not just painting, but any of these things that we discussed. Um, but it really started for me because you inspired me for sure. And if anybody's listening, you don't know it by now. You are definitely an inspiration for me. Uh and um it started when I saw a a post that you had of a painting of a painting called Teeth from 1997. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, okay. You're laughing. Okay, that's good. It's good when my guest has a chuckle. Um but no, so I saw this painting, I saw you with it. And I just thought to myself, that's amazing, you know, that first of all, it's a great painting, okay? So it's a good painting. Um and also also it's but I will say this, okay. I can tell a difference, okay? I see the difference. And I mean it's a long time ago that you painted this. But what was so inspiring for me was not like the progression um of the artwork or the differences and in in what uh in what a what you might do today versus teeth. Um but that it was so that you that you shared that. So sharing that for me was an inspiration because it showed me this person, Adam Maddox, who's who's um you know, an inspiring artist to me. She started somewhere, you know, she started a long time ago, and you don't get to just be Adam Maddox, or you don't get to just be a tremendous uh artist. I mean, maybe some people, maybe some people are just gifted, but even other artists that I read about, you know, it's a long road of working through it. And that showed me um that journey and all the fears and confidence and things that you went through along the way, those are that's part of the journey. But the journey, that is you can't, you gotta do the work, you gotta go. And that's one of the things I wanted to ask you about is the mileage and how important is the mileage and what does that mean to you as an artist? You mentioned the word mileage before when we were talking.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

It's a constant create, finishing cycles of action, finishing paintings, finish, finish, finish, start, change, stop, get this stuff done.

Jason 36:10

Get the reps in.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yeah, I mean, there's a piece right there behind me. Of course, the people on the podcast can't see it, but see, they're to to know like these pieces are 20 years ago, right there. Okay. They're horrible. Yeah, all right, but no, they're horrible. Well, I don't know. I can't decide.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

I like them.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

But it's it's finishing if if all your actions are naturally right, meaning you're right there at your easel, you're painting, you're doing something, you're gonna call upon all your implements, everything that you have, what you're working with, to do the best job that you can right then and there. Sign it, get it out of your face, start another piece. Do not go into scarcity on oh my god, this is the one painting that I'm doing, and it's gotta be so special and so great. Sign it. This is how people become prolific. It's a key to being prolific. Finish your pieces, start another one, let go, move, get moving, action.

Jason 37:22

You know, I love it. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

You know, uh, power is you know, it's it's the speed of particle flow, how quickly you move, finish this stuff. Yeah, done, done, done, done, done. I can't say it enough. Get it over with. People who watch me on Instagram. I start one painting, these are beast, beast. Yeah, you have to be a little bit insane to do what I'm doing. I I think I think I'm a little crazy if you do what I'm doing. Some of this work is so detailed, it's driving me nuts. But um the I I I will start this piece, and there's no getting out of it till it's done. So I better get it done as quickly as I can. And and I and and then I have a brief little period of time when I'm finished. The time when I finish a piece till I start the next one, I call it the shark water. It's where it's where I'm I'm feeling like it's it's kind of um an in-between stage. It's it's super uncomfortable. I hate being off the easel. So this in-between area, I race as quickly as I can to get this next piece going.

Jason 38:38

Yeah. Yeah. Did you find that out through uh trial and error? I mean, was that something from the beginning you understood? You said, I want to be prolific, I want, I know what I need to do. I need to finish, I need to start, stop, paint another piece. Or did you realize as you were working that the more you did that, the better you got? Or you for so for you, your happy place is on the easel anyway. So you're already doing it.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

But yeah, I mean, but I don't hang up, I don't hang up on pieces. There's no hanging up, hanging up's not allowed. Okay, if I'm not finishing that thing, it will get destroyed.

Jason 39:20

So you either finish it or destroy it. I like that. Yeah. And do you get to a place towards the end of your work where you are excited about like moving on to the next one where you're like, okay, I'm I'm on a roll, I'm I'm painting a lot of pieces here, and I like I like producing and making the things. Does it ever affect the work that you're working on now?

SPEAKER_00 39:44

That you I don't when I'm on a piece, I'm 100% into that piece, and I'll net my mind will never go off on another piece. My concentration is out of out of a one, out of a z from zero to ten on a scale, my concentration is a ten. Not 9.9, it's a 10. So I'm all there in the moment, painting what I'm working on, and that's it. That's the only thing that exists for me. See, creation is so easy, it's so easy. You you you have a thought, you propel it forward, make it materialize. And and as long as you have all your tools in a canvas, you've got everything that you need, and you know how to operate your body, you can stand at the easel and produce whatever you want.

Jason 40:34

So I think it's safe to say that you think that that that action is way more valuable than the the learning of the craft or the those types of things, the repetition versus the technique.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

I think I think I skipped a question in there that you were asking me. I'm blanking out now.

Jason 40:54

Um I uh no, I mean we're we're on topic here.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Asked me about being prolific, and I always wanted to be a prolific artist, but I never was. I mean, I I was my production was very slow compared to what I'm doing now, so I I had to figure out a way because you had asked me a question about is this something that I learned along the way? And a lot of these things are what what I learned along the way, but it's so much of it has to do with mental state, right?

Jason 41:29

Well, that was my next thing. Uh occupy the space, right? We talked about this the other the other day, and you said I said, I I want to be, you know, a professional artist. And you're like, hey dude, how about just occupy the space and be, you know, just be it and do it. And yeah, so was that something that you learned because you just you know you said that I wanted to be this thing, and then you realized somewhere down the road I need to just I just need to be it and not think about a future like that.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Yeah, because think about this. If you're saying all the time, uh I want to be a good wife, I want to be a good wife. Well, you must not be being a very good wife if you're wanting to be a good wife, right? So there's there's or I want to quit drinking, you must be drinking, and you know, or I want to I want to quit drinking is how I meant to say the statement implies the inverse is true, right? Yeah, right. So, so um it and yes, these are things that I did um learn along the way in my uh in so much of art, you know. I I don't obviously we don't talk about religion, but I'm very spiritual and I'm very aware, like my space and who I am, I've got to be um obviously very at peace with myself um to be constantly in production and waking up every day, you know, doing the same thing, you know, drug-free. You know? I don't have to get high anymore to go paint, thank God. Um the funny thing is a lot of the the becoming a prolific artist came out of quitting the drugs. Now I'm not gonna say that's easy, but there's a period of time that you go through until you adjust and get used to it again, and then then now I'm becoming prolific, right? Well no, excuse me, I am prolific right now, but but I was I was becoming prolific. Um and then I found that you know as my as my head cleared up, I could see colors. Like you can see if you follow my work, you can see where I painted really dark, and then I went to the really bright blown-out colors, and now I'm painting photorealism that's on steroids. And so so there's this progression of my work where I've always I see where I want to go. Um, and sometimes I do what's called is is a really big think, Jason. Where a what? A really a big a big think. Think, okay. Yeah, think. And and that's only thinking, but thinking with note cards, right? I'm writing stuff out where um when I'm I'm getting ready to to go on vacation here and I think the next month, and I'm gonna I I have to be in a hotel for a little period of time because of the island, and uh and and I try to look and see, you know, where I want to go, because if you can see where you want to go, then you'll go there. And sometimes it takes a little thinking, which is super uncomfortable for me, to sit down and start thinking because I'm not a thinker.

Jason 44:59

And do you think do you only think like in your off season when you're not painting, or do you is there any part of your process or well, never mind, but just wondering.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

No, you're you're you're fine.

Jason 45:10

I I just I mean, do you do you say okay, I want to, I'm I want to get this these paintings done this this month, or you know, when there must be some part of your or maybe there's not like maybe there's not you're planning, you know, you're planning kind of stuff, and I mean, and then I get when you're in front of the ESO, like it's business time, I'm in it. Um, but that thinking thing I think is um it's been valuable to me, and I've read a lot of people that do that, so it's interesting to hear you say that that's important to you uh as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah, I've got it on my list to do because I have trained myself to not think. Um and I mean, uh other than you know, short spurts of you know, well, let's get up and go paint and you know, I mean, you have to use your brain here and there, right? But I mean, really sitting down and thinking like in futures, right? Futures.

Jason 46:15

What do you think about when you do those sessions?

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Well, I I have I've mildly done maybe about three mildly. And I I need that's why I have it on my list to do a big think. Like really see, you know, part of the gallery was a part of a big think. What's your next move in this chess game?

Jason 46:35

What understand? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Where where where are you gonna move your rook, you know, not get them wiped out, right?

Jason 46:43

So yeah, I gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

And yeah, it and it's gonna take a little bit because I'm I'm so in the moment, always living. Yeah, you know, just action. I I am a person that is in action. I mean, I've got two speeds, I'm either horizontal or vertical. That's it. That's all that's all she wrote. So, and and there's a lot of living to do, it's a lot of creating to do, and sitting around thinking about doing it is not going to get it done. You gotta get on this stuff and get moving.

Jason 47:20

I agree. Where does an artist's confidence come from? Um and that goes into the fear that you were talking about earlier, if you want to talk more about that as well.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

But I I think confidence for me comes from that's a beautiful question, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Um confidence for me is is very spiritual. It's like I I really, really love myself a lot. You know, yeah. Uh and so it and my confidence is I I mean, you know, and and I do bring that up about, you know, getting off of drugs and some personal things because somebody out there might be listening that's struggling with some stuff and needs some help, which they know they can reach out to me. Um you know confidence is is intending to do something and getting the job done. That builds confidence. Um and it's saying that I'm gonna go do X and then I show up and go do X, that builds self-confidence. And for me, self-confidence and getting these things done is really the only security that I have, even over money, because money can be spent and money can go, but I have the confidence that I can work, and I know I can work and I know I can get stuff done. So it's saying that I'm gonna go do this and then I go do that, and that's very important as far as having a lot of trust within myself, knowing that I can take care of myself, and that's when you know, a client calls and says they want a canvas done. I know I'm gonna get that job done. Whether or not he likes it is not is is of no consequence. I'm gonna like it, you know, and um self self-confidence is built on also it's ethics, doing those things that you know that are right for you, not what someone told you to do, but it's very important to keep your own personal ethical level always in check. Yeah, meaning that if if it is it is gonna affect you creating the next day on your job, if you go out and get drunk, you may not like it when you go out and get drunk. If you go out and get drunk, you're gonna take a big chunk out of your self-confidence because you just did something that you didn't want to do, and it's gonna be easier to do it next time. When you do something wrong, it's easier to do it again and again and again, and this takes away from self-confidence. And I know we're talking about art, but it has everything to do with your trust in yourself that you're gonna hold that space and occupy that space when you are on the job in front of your easel and you've got a lot of stuff to get done. If you believe in yourself that you can stand there and get this stuff done, by golly, you're gonna get it done.

Jason 50:32

That makes sense. And I like what you say about I've got X to do. When I do X, I gain confidence. And right, you know, um in my life, in my experience, that has been that has been true of the people I've uh I've seen that are very confident people. They're the they're the folks that flew the hard missions, they've done the they've been there, done it, and they've done it over a long period of time, and they've had bad, they had bad rides and good rides, you know, they they did it, they've done it, and they didn't get to be confident by not doing it. And um, so do you is that part of the mileage as well for you? Is do you do you think all the 20 years that all out every little piece that you start, stop, you know, start, finish, move on to the next one, all that's slowly chipping away at making more and more confidence for you.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Oh, yeah, yeah. And and also, too, I mean, if if there is an area of your artwork that you know is a weakness, okay. For for me, I had a weakness with the mixing of my colors and using the right palette and and really mixing harmonious colors to put on this canvas, okay. If there's an area that you know is your weakness that you evaluated for yourself that you know you need help with, go get it fixed. Yeah, yeah, go read a book, seek out the best person that knows about that subject on the technical end, not somebody who's gonna like get all critical with your artwork. I don't need any of those people, right? You know, but but on the the whole, there's a this entire massive technical side of creating art that viewers out there have no clue about, none. And if we were to talk about it, they they think we're speaking another language. So go seek out and get those areas that you need help in, get them fixed. So when so you're working with more more and more certainties. See if you could get up in front of the easel and know a hundred percent with a hundred percent certainty that you were gonna paint a great painting, that you had all your technical ends covered, okay? And all your problems, you kinks, you had it all worked out, and you knew you can take a $50,000 commission because you know that canvas is gonna be insane, right? Yeah, I'd say that's a good job. Get rid of those uncertainties, okay? There's I have so many artists who sit there and go, how long does it take you to do a painting? Well, uh, I don't know. Well, why don't you know? Why aren't you keeping a time walk on a piece? Once you get an idea and know how long these pieces are taking you, clock in and clock out, right?

Jason 53:39

And then you know too. Am I cheating myself? Like, hey, I know it takes me about four to five days to get through one of these, you know, 12 by 16, whatever it is, whatever medium. And hey, you know, it's been a couple weeks, brother. Like, what's what's the problem? You know, just finish it, just go finish it and move on.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Uh-huh. And and and then you can see, but uh, but yeah, if everything, I don't feel like I answered one of your questions, but everything and and where I've arrived.

Jason 54:09

Confidence is what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

I don't want to say my age, just put it this way. I'm I'm I'm I'm getting older, but but all these different things, like like you know, where I started out with my confidence was in the trash can to some extent, okay. At 23, my confidence in trying to create something that was going to be great that I was gonna sell was in the trash can. I was lost, right? So I've come from there, all my life experiences I would never want to repeat my 20s ever, and um finding a way that I have found from my own observation, from my mileage, is that keeping clean hands and doing the right thing for me that I know that's right, taking care of myself and and having my personal ethics where you know, I'm not doing anything wrong that I know that's really wrong. You know, I'm not going out to the bars getting jacked up, okay, has everything to do and and affects 100% my life on the easel. Everything to do with it. You know, I'm not a psychotic. I can't like sit here and compartmentalize like I'm gonna go be a serial killer one night and and everything's okay in the morning, I'm gonna put on my happy face and and go to the easel like I'm going to Wally World. It doesn't work that way. It it is like everything that I do I find that when when I have really clean space and I'm doing the right thing in life and I'm taking great care of myself, it is very easy to paint quickly and do a great job. My concentration's there. I'm not getting distracted by you know stuff that goes on, which is called life, you know.

Jason 56:17

Yeah. What about some of the what about some of the falls? What about some of the you know the times where you've had big failures or big um you mentioned the other the other day where you know that you gotta be willing to fail and you're gonna have falls. Do you is that something you think about, or you just and you just know from experience that you've had those?

SPEAKER_00 56:50

Oh I've I've had my my failures haven't been uh too great. I've had some a couple of commissions I've run into problems with, and uh I've gone to both times I went to my mentor who's dead now, and he helped me through a barrier that I had in closing down these both of these pieces that I had uh this was at a time when I was painting with much more uncertainty than I'm now. So um, I mean, I've had uh you know, I've had chemical problems with using the wrong top coat. I've I've dried paintings in a heating oven and all the copic marker like melted up through the paint where I had to repaint. I I I've had chemical problems. Like I've had black paint explode in my studio. Um I've had a studio that got flooded three times. I mean, I I've had all I don't say these are these are some of them are technical failures. Um, but not anything as far as my career's gone. Um I haven't really had uh you know a commission that I got that I totally messed up on or anything like that. I and a lot of accidents too with making art can always be corrected. There's a way to repaint, fix it, especially if you're working in oil.

Jason 58:23

Right. When you were putting in the miles and you're making these pieces, are you putting them all out there to be sold, or are some of them just these are for practice? Like these are you know, they're not for other people, or is everything that you create you and create with the intention of selling it, or is everything nothing is like a practice thing, like uh an exercise or something like that. No, okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

I'm in it to win it. So I did I did paint uh a huge painting. Um, I think I painted a three by five foot zebra painting I did in like five hours uh for my bedroom for for interior decoration because I've got a I've got a lot of zebra in there and I needed a huge zebra painting. So I painted that painting for myself, which I thought was really funny, but I painted it as fast as I could with the biggest brushes because it had to get done because I was on another painting. So it had one day to get done and that was it.

Jason 59:27

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Yeah.

Jason 59:29

All right. Well, before I change topics a little bit, AD, is there anything else that you want to talk about or that you think might be inspiring for because I know that you that you said you want to to help people uh with their art. Um and I just want to give you uh a last opportunity to say something that maybe we haven't talked about that you think is important. Uh and if you don't, that's fine too.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Oh, I oh yeah, there is something really there's a really big point that I want to bring up to uh tell any artists that are listening that, and I hope I deliver this okay, because you know, I've been painting so much that I'm I'm in another side of my brain right now. If I trip and fall, you know, that's because I'm I've been on another side of my brain on the easel. But um self, I want to touch on self-invalidation.

Jason 1:00:24

Self-invalidation, yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

Okay to the layman, it's called putting yourself down, putting yourself down, putting your work down. This is something that you know, part of our agreement with doing this talk, Jason, was to help other people.

unknown 1:00:41

100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

But this is something that you know, I have found I've also have you know, I have a lot of people come to me for help that I found um, oh yeah, I just started painting and this one really sucks. This piece is really bad. Or yeah, it's okay and it's all right. There's a thing called self-invalidation, and uh you know, if I'm instructing somebody on what to do to help someone, that's number one not allowed. Self-invalidation is not allowed. Uh, it'll pick apart in the story more artists that I've seen who it's the difference between artists making it and artists that don't make that don't make it is putting yourself down. Okay.

unknown 1:01:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

I don't know if you have anything you want to add in there with that.

Jason 1:01:35

I yes, I agree with you 100%. And it's one of the things that um, you know, we look for, I mean, self-talk, and you know, I've read a little bit about this and how when you say things, your brain believes you. So verbally saying it even, even more than thinking it is more powerful when you're actually saying the words and your brain starts to believe it because your brain is your brain is a machine and you know, shit in, shit out. If you tell it something, then that's what it thinks. It's something that, you know. If it were if it works like that for other things uh in relationships and work, then it must be the same for art, right? And maybe especially so for art. And um yeah, just the other day, uh you know, me and my wife, uh I've got two children, and my son is uh six now. Right. And he said something the other day where this is you know, this isn't a good he brought something home from school, you know, and he said this isn't a good this isn't a good number two. Like, you know, it was like he is practicing this number twos and he's like this is a really bad two or something like that. Right and you know we hit it right there, like hard. Like, no, that's not how we talk, you know, like and it sounds weird, but like you know, just other ways to even say, I mean you know, there's there's there's delusional optimism, but then there's also like like you're talking about self-invalidation, and yeah, you have to you have to put that stuff away. I think just to be happy, uh also I think it's I think it's it's important in art too. It's something that I know I think is important. Yeah, I should probably work on it myself, you know. I try to say things like that, but when I I find that my wife will be like, dude, you gotta you can't be talking like that, you know. It's obviously, you know, this is a journey, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

However, when you first stop doing it, it takes it takes a little bit of time to get out of that behavior, yeah, of putting yourself down or putting your art down. Because if you really think about it, it's that you are the only one that you have that you can control to do that artwork. You're the only one that can push it forward and get it into the light and sell it. That's why you know there's no better salesperson for my artwork than me because I know all those pieces inside and out, up and down and backwards, right? And also, too, there's no one who loves my art more than me because I created it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:32

That's beautiful. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Yeah, so so I have to always flow all this um all this uh great uh energy of compliments, you know, to to the work, right? Yes, some pieces I think are stronger than others, and there's some that are really, you know, um some earlier pieces that are, you know, yeah, I got it.

Jason 1:05:03

Yeah, but I will say this, AD. I mean, it's all depends on who's who's viewing it and through what lens, because sometimes I'll think about a piece and say, again, not in a necessarily a negative way, but just as a person who's observing art, I can say, I like this piece more than that piece. It just appeals to me more. I just like the colors better. I and it's not even that, but then somebody else looks at the one that it doesn't appeal to me, and that's the one that they end up buying, or that's the one that they like.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

Exactly.

Jason 1:05:33

Yeah, so it's like don't judge it because you know it's it's not for you to judge. And I found that has been the biggest breakthrough for me with trying to sell art, with pricing art, and and and and that whole process is that dude, it's not about you, you know, and that there's there's a lot of people on planet earth, and you know, if somebody buys it, then you uh then the value is there, and you gotta find the people, you know, that yeah, you have to find the there's uh yeah, that's a whole nother topic in itself.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Well, we won't yeah, we don't have to get into all that, but it does it does go back to I guess the one thing hitting on this point, you know, about self-invalidation is always build yourself up. Like say you had asked me earlier about you know how much do I work. Well, I I have a very loose schedule, you know. I I um I I also too, you know, I'm not married, I don't have kids, I don't have pets, and I live in my own building, so I have a lot of freedoms, right? So I I go to bed when I can when I'm tired, and sometimes tired might be four o'clock in the morning, sometimes tired might be two, sometimes tired might be twelve. I sleep in and then I I go to the easel and I clock in. I have to have coffee in the morning, and when I feel like you know, all my engines are on blast off mode, I'm ready to go. Um, say if I have a day that um, and this is this is what where it comes into, you know, telling you about all this is that say if I have a day that, you know, I'm not feeling a whole lot of energy, low energy, just kind of tired, because sometimes I paint tired. And you know, I maybe I got a couple of fins done on the fish, and that's it. I could sit there and say, you know, I didn't get a whole lot done, or maybe I got four hours of work done instead of like 10, like I like to hit tens.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

I just simply just will take a win on the four hours that I did, and that I'm closer to the finish than I was of not showing up for work and brushing it off and doing a Netflix day.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

I I was I showed up, right? So sometimes there are days when there's really super low energy, especially when you start getting, you know, um, you know, you when you're not in your twenties, right?

Jason 1:08:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

Or yeah.

Jason 1:08:12

Do you want to talk at all about fly fishing? About I was gonna ask. What's a oh yeah no no I didn't mean it like that but um keep talking about art but I I wanted to ask so it sounds like when you are painting uh and you don't paint at all in the summertime, that's your playtime. Do you does you never take a break from painting to go fly fish or be in nature to to help with the process? You are painting and you're working and you're moving forward until you're not, and then you flip the switch and then you're doing other things. So what is that is that true, fairly true or somewhat accurate?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

Yeah, I this is a new program that I got on. It's called the Montana program, and I'm being very funny here. Uh what what happens is that I can get so absorbed in my artwork that I forget to go breathe. And it's very important to get out and live life, experience this beautiful area, and not to mention that you know the years start whipping around a little faster. Yeah, and and I need to go, um, I guess the word for it's called breathe, right? Take a take a walk, take a breather. And the skies open up here in Montana, and the weather is so beautiful. And I've got to get out and fish, and I've got to photograph, like I have production work that I have to do. And whether it be, you know, social media, um filming on my GoPro or going and doing all this um adventurous stuff, which I feel inspires people to get out and live.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:48

It's a very important um message that I like to forward to people is to enjoy life and to go live and to go play. Just because you're in an older body doesn't mean you can't go get wild and play.

Jason 1:10:00

So, what's a day on the river for you then?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

Yeah, so so I go out and go fishing then. I I go out, I Montana, just real quickly, Montana is beautiful, you know, July, August, September, and somewhat into October, and then we get some pretty western weather. So I just decided that those are the times when I'm forcing myself to go play and live. Uh, I hire a guide that I'm in a partnership with, and I pay him money to go catch fish for me. Really good guide. He's on private water. His business is called secreted water, and he is an amazing fisherman, and he knows how to hold these trout and what kind of backgrounds we're looking for. So I can do, I am loaded up with the with the cameras to shoot while he's positioning the fish for me because I don't want to shoot any trout out of the water. Um, I want them all in the the water breathing.

Jason 1:11:06

Yeah, there's some pictures on your website of kind of you doing that or the have holding the fish in the water and the photography. Um so a lot of it is going with a guide and then taking pictures.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:17

And then when do you when do you decide to fish or do you oh you know, I I when when I have enough shots, then Lee. I think Lee handed me the rod and I hooked a huge brown trout. Um like I think it was my third cast. I got this one and hauled it in. Um I I did I did a good bit of fishing last summer until I figured out this process.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

I tried to do the fishing and the photography, and it just doesn't work. I mean, you could do it, but it's too much gear. Right. You either, I mean, so I tried to this is all like this big science project where I'm trying to figure out how to do this stuff, you know.

Jason 1:12:03

Do you have a do you have a favorite river or someplace that's special to you that you like to go?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:07

Uh fly fishing or well, obviously the the Yellowstone is pretty cool, but I I like um I like no, there's not really one in particular because I I think there's so many there's so many beautiful streams, especially when you're dealing with Montana. I mean they're gorgeous. But what what the funny thing that's happened is that since I've started going out and doing all these adventures and fishing, uh I've fallen in love with fishing all over again. Yeah, it is so much fun. I like the production of it, and um yeah, I I just I I'm in love with fishing all over again. Now after I've spread out to painting horses and African wildlife, now all I want to do is paint fish.

Jason 1:13:01

Whereas before I wanted to start, I wanted to branch out with horses and I was gonna ask you about that, but I didn't know if I should or yeah, now I'm like all into fish again.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:12

So now this is like going on steroids. It's like I'm doing these insane paintings of these crazy fish. Yeah, like an old the latest series with the rocks in the water is pretty yes, the secluded water series, which is ongoing, it's just gonna be ongoing because Lee and I are doing it again next summer and the summer after and the summer after.

Jason 1:13:31

Yeah, they're very beautiful pieces, and uh they're definitely intricate, but it's worth it. I mean, they are amazing. So I really like the secluded waters, and like you said earlier about growth and and doing the things, the hard things, and you don't get better unless you I always say you don't get better unless you fly the hard sorties, you got to do the hard missions, but uh though that's hard, you know. I mean, did you think about that? Did you say, all right, this is gonna be a challenge and I'm excited about it?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:01

Or uh oh, yeah, no, like in it on steroids. I'm like, I can't even sleep at night. I'm so excited to go. I'll go on one hour sleep, two hours sleep. I don't care, I'm going.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:12

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:13

Um, and I I got over the fear of going out in the middle of nowhere by myself. I know people might think that's stupid, but I'm a southern chick and I've always gone somewhere with men. And to go, you know, into this big Montana outdoors by myself in bear country is like frightening for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

And I had I had to go do that, and I bought a new car and got big old tires so I wouldn't get flats and and um well I've been up in the Bear Tooth Mountains by myself, and that's bear country.

Jason 1:14:46

And I'll tell you what, I'm scared too. I mean, bears are scary up there in Montana.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:51

And it's just it's just doing something that I've kind of sorry for any of the women listening, but I've I've always just you know, being raised in the south, it's like you always go do this kind of outdoor stuff with the man, right? Well, I don't have a man, so I'm like having I'm not gonna sit around and wait to get a man to go do this stuff, so I've got to go do it. Makes sense, and and I feel real good about working with Lee because he, you know, I I love the partnership of working with somebody like in in the business setting to to fish and photograph. Um but then again, all this was brought about by Jason. Another point was that if if you get tired or bored in an existing space that you're in doing something, create something new. If you don't like your job, quit it, get another one. If if you don't like uh if you're tired of painting in watercolors and it's not so much fun, get into oils.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:01

And by by the way, I did fall on my face with watercolors. I think you asked me where my fails were. I feel like plain air painting, I suck, and I suck at uh watercolors.

Jason 1:16:13

Um I'm fighting through watercolor. I I like watercolor, but I have a uh it's uh uh enjoy learning about it. But I also think that I I'm looking at it as a I'm putting in some miles, I'm putting in some mileage because I think I'm getting value out of uh the medium that will help me in other mediums. That's my I think especially light and um oh yeah, right. I think that it's gonna be helpful, but anyway, okay, cool. Uh you mentioned that there's no better salesman uh or saleswoman than yourself for your own work. And I'd I love how you say nobody loves my work more than me because I created it, and I've never thought about it that way, but that's awesome. Was that a reason that you wanted to have your own gallery? And do you want to talk about the gallery? Because that's just three years old. Is that right? In uh living school? Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

Um, it it was something that needed to be in place. Um I've been doing this for so many years of you know uh I I need to I have so many people that like to come by to see me and see my work that I need a big showroom. This gallery is not even open, by the way. It's by appointment only. Um I can't I can't I can't have an open door policy uh when I'm working on the easel painting because I don't want to be bothered. I cannot be disturbed while I'm painting.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:49

I understand.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

That's that's like a law.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:52

Um so so I have people just I mean, even if people are driving through town and they text me, just let me know they're here. I mean, appointment can sound like oh, you know, whatever. It can sound people can get the wrong idea from it. Just means let me know when you're coming through town. Let's work out of time so I can open my door.

Jason 1:18:13

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Um okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

But but the the gallery was solely out of doing that. Um and I want also I wanted to be able to have my own openings, you know, my big shows, right? Um and do it. I I want freedom with this uh beautiful job. You know, I want freedom. And um there were a lot of things that were not in place, which if you increase the level of responsibility of the job, well, where's your gallery? Well, I don't have one. Well, you better get one. You know, yeah. So all these things that are not there, you you better get them and put them there, right? So, you know, uh there's a lot of artists that just like to paint and other galleries sell their work and they don't want to deal with the business of it. That's fine, but I'm I'm not like that, I'm hands-on everything.

Jason 1:19:17

You like the business side of it too.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:20

Absolutely, I love it.

Jason 1:19:22

I um that's one of the things I I like that as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:26

I keep all my books, PR. And now I I do have a lot of things delegated, and these people do their jobs. Once I hat someone and they're doing their job, I don't go into their area. Yeah, only if their stats drop are we gonna have a talk. Okay, they're not doing their job, we need to have a talk. Um but I have I have a large team that handles different things that I monitor by emails or phone calls. Um, but this didn't start at once, Jason. This was, and that was also too a lot of growth in knowing where you need to delegate stuff so you can be on the easel.

Jason 1:20:08

On the easel, on the easel. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

The the whole entire career was born out of me standing at that easel, right?

Jason 1:20:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:19

So if I'm not there, we're gonna write down because you're doing other stuff, yeah. Right?

Jason 1:20:25

Uh yeah. Yeah. Um, all right. Well, before I ask my last question, A D, um how can people see more of your work? Or we talked about the gallery that's in Livingston, Montana, right? And how can people come by and see you or see your work? I know you have a website.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:45

Yeah, yeah. It's really easy. Um, I'm I'm on it. Seems like everyone, I hate to say the word everyone because it's such a general generalization, but I know a lot of people are on Instagram, and my Instagram account is admatics999 for my Dakoti. So that's that's I'm I'm on Instagram and all my information's on there, or you can go to admatics.com. My cell phone number's on there. You just gotta send me a text and let me know when you're coming through. And you can look over all the artwork that's on the site. Um and also, too, you know, if anyone has any questions about it, if I touched on anything that you want to talk about more, or you've got questions, or you need any help, to get my cell phone number and text me and ask me, because I really do love to help other people. Um, it's it's really important for me to inspire and build people up and enhance people's lives. And that's what I really love to do.

Jason 1:21:56

Well, I think that you're definitely doing that today, uh, in this conversation, if for certainly one human being, which is me. So thank you. So there's probably gonna be more than one human that listens to this, but if nobody listens to this, I uh you help me a lot. Uh, and so I really appreciate that. And uh I know I said it before, but thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:19

Yeah, you know, we're we're all in this huge big game called life, we're all in this thing together, and and I I just want to say that sometimes things can it it seems like it can be so hard for you to uh change or to become great at something or you know to further your artwork. But I just want to remind people that nothing worthwhile is ever easy. I'm not saying this stuff is easy, I and I'm saying that, and this is the reason I'm a little bit of like a bulldog with this, is that it takes a lot of heart, it takes a lot of push, it takes a lot of effort. You you've got to work at it and you've got to push through your barriers and challenge yourself if you fall down to get back up and to keep pushing, you know. Uh even the tigers out there in the wild have a rough time surviving. Um, use your resources, you know, use your friends, your real friends, and set targets for yourself and goals. Goals and targets are big. Where are you going? And uh this is something I always like to kind of end with my little inspirational talk, which is how I think in the morning. You know, when I get out of bed, the first thought that comes to my mind is I've got to flourish and prosper today. Today is Christmas, I've got to get after it, you know. It it is a gift, and and that is what gets me out of bed in the morning is to flourish and prosper and do well. And that's like a recording that goes off, you know.

Jason 1:24:08

I do know. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. That's a good, that's a good if that's your thing that you like to end on, then that's a good one. That's a really good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:20

But you you had another question. I have a question.

Jason 1:24:22

Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to hear you can um I think you already gave me the answer to this question, but uh but I'd like to ask it still if you could go back to when you first started in art and um in fly fishing art kind of that that world. Um what would you one or two things that you would tell yourself that you think would most help you um like tactically uh as an artist and then kind of philosophically, and maybe they're the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:58

Um oh my god, it it it's almost like I kind of dubbed in on this question. I don't know if I'm correct, but if you're asking me if I could go back and do it all again, something that I would say that would change the course of where I am today.

Jason 1:25:12

No, just a piece of advice.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:15

I heard that wrong. I kind of just a piece of advice.

Jason 1:25:17

No, that's fine. Oh, I gotta, I gotta I kind of asked this question at the end of every podcast, and I still haven't really nailed exactly what the question is.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:25

Or I already have the answer. Already have the answer.

Jason 1:25:29

What do you tell yourself to help you? Um, you know, if if you would do this, it's gonna help big.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:36

You got to think big.

Jason 1:25:38

Okay, that's what I'm looking for. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:40

A person is as big as their dreams. If you that's part of this big think I was telling you, if you do not dream big, if you do not look far into the future and have these goals of where you're going, you will go nowhere. You're gonna get up in the morning, you're gonna do the same thing that you did every single day, nothing's gonna change. If you do not have goals and and dreams, like allow yourself to like, I should be talking about me, not other people, but I I I have to dream big, I have to think big. Where and this is part of great, you know, I got a gallery. Now, what's the next step, Jason? You know, you gotta where are you gonna go? Where's the next step? There's gotta be another peak. We gotta hit something else big, right? Or you just gonna stay the same? What is it?

Jason 1:26:36

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:37

Well, better it better be something. So I I've gotta put that in place as where where is my next big create of goal where you know the where I'm going. Where where's my dream? Yeah, where's my jet?

Jason 1:26:54

That's a great answer. I really appreciate it. Dream big. Um and I I can't thank you enough for uh coming on the podcast and sharing your ideas. Uh, and I know that it's gonna help a lot of people the way that it's helped me. And um just thanks for keeping putting out the art. I mean, it's really great.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:15

And you know, my job's like the mafia and getting out of it alive. So that's how I'm gonna keep on doing it, yeah. All right for sure. Yeah.

Jason 1:27:25

Thanks, AD. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:27

Okay.

Jason 1:27:32

Thanks for listening to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing podcast. You can learn more about some of the topics we discussed in today's episode show notes. For more fly fishing ideas, stories, and artwork, check out my blog, an online gallery at WadeOutThere.com. If you want to make Wade Out There a part of your own fly fishing journey, please subscribe and share. Until next time, Wade Out There.