Stepping up for cancer patients

This week on Health Matters, Tarah Schwartz and Dr. Pierre Laneuville discuss advances in cancer research. Throat cancer patient, Eddy Nolan shares his gratitude for the MUHC’s staff and why he is joining forces with the MUHC Foundation to fundraise for World Cancer Day. Meet cardiologist Dr. Patrick Lawler, the first awardee of the Rising Star Program. And, Susan Rodrigues shares how she had a heart attack at age 40 and why she wants women to look after their heart health. 

Cette semaine à Questions de santé, Tarah Schwartz et le Dr Pierre Laneuville discutent des percées de la recherche sur le cancer. Eddy Nolan, un patient atteint d’un cancer de la gorge, témoigne sa gratitude à l’égard du personnel du CUSM et explique pourquoi il s’associe à la Fondation du CUSM pour recueillir des fonds à l’occasion de la Journée mondiale contre le cancer. Nous vous présentons le Dr Patrick Lawler, cardiologue, le premier récipiendaire d’une bourse du programme Étoile montante. Et Susan Rodrigues, qui a subi une crise cardiaque à l’âge de 40 ans, explique pourquoi elle souhaite que les femmes prennent soin de leur santé cardiaque.

Transcript

Tarah Schwartz: 0:00

Hello there. Thank you for joining us. I'm Tarah Schwartz and this is Health Matters on CJAD 800. On today's show, heart issues can happen at any time. Whether you're young or young at heart, we share the stories of two Montrealers who unexpectedly experienced cardiac issues. They each describe their experiences, and why it motivated them to lend their voices to raising awareness and giving back. Plus later in the show, a researcher who is making a name for himself internationally, joins the MUHC. But first, so many of us know firsthand the devastating impact cancer has, whether you have gone through treatments yourself or have supported a loved one through cancer. There are some lasting effects. World Cancer Day is on February 4, and the MUHC Foundation is once again, fundraising to end cancer as a deadly illness. Dr. Pierre Laneuville is one of the dedicated researchers who is hoping to find better treatments to fight cancer. He is an investigator at the Research Institute of the MUHC and joins me now thank you so much for being here. Dr. Laneuville.

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 1:06

Hi, it's my pleasure. Thank you for the invitation.

Tarah Schwartz: 1:09

So Dr. Laneuville, what was it that attracted you to medicine and medical research?

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 1:16

That's a good question. Certainly, when I was young, I was looking for something that would involve helping people. And certainly medicine fit the bill. And the other aspect is I was a real science bug. And I think understanding a lot of modern medicine involves knowing quite a bit about science. So it was a natural choice for me, and I didn't hesitate.

Tarah Schwartz: 1:38

I think that cancer is a word that terrifies most people, because so many of us or our loved ones have been affected by it. What goes through your mind when you hear the word cancer?

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 1:52

For me, cancer means perhaps a lot less. And, cancer really represents hundreds of different diseases which have very different prognosis from each other, very different treatments. So the word itself for me is not particularly useful. It's really to know which subtypes and some subtypes of cancers do extremely well nowadays, even compared to non-cancerous conditions.

Tarah Schwartz: 2:23

And how much has changed in cancer research over these last years? I imagine quite a bit.

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 2:29

A huge amount of the science and the tools that we have for investigating or looking for new treatments, has literally exploded. And certainly one of the more exciting advances in last few years is the new tools that we have for turning on the immune system; the patient's own immune system to fight their own cancer. It's really a huge breakthrough.

Tarah Schwartz: 2:56

That really sounds fascinating. Can you elaborate a little bit more what you mean by that? Turning on somebody's immune system to fight their own cancer?

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 3:04

There have been different approaches.

Tarah Schwartz: 3:04

We're speaking with Dr. Perrin Laneuville; In some cancers, part of the strategy of what cancer do to us is to shut off the patient's immune system, so it becomes blind to the cancer. New agents, drugs have been developed that wake up the patient's immune system. In some cases, on certain tumor types, it's really revolutionized the treatment. In other cases, we have to modify patient's immune system. Most of we're talking about cancer research and we will be talking those approaches use cell therapy. That is, you actually take some white cells called lymphocytes in our immune system cells that we can take from a patient's blood. And these are re-engineered to target and destroy the patient's cancer. For certain cancers that had failed all previous treatment, we can have some absolute wonderful results using this approach. about World Cancer Day. Now, Dr. Laneuville, the Research Institute of the MUHC is a world renowned research institute. For those of you who listening who don't know what the Research Institute is, you know what the McGill University Health Center is- the giant hospital on the Glen site- but attached to that is a state-of-the-art research institute. The research is happening on-site and that is impacting no doubt patient care in the hospital. How important is the work that's going on at the Research Institute and its impact on treating patients?

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 4:42

I think it's huge. There's different levels of research. We have on-site some basic scientists; people who look at basic mechanism of disease, including basic mechanism cancer. Others are testing early concepts about treating different types of cancers. Oftentimes at the level of the lab, and also trying to develop new treatments for cancers. At the other end of the spectrum, we have an organization to run clinical trials, that is new treatments that have yet to be tested or need to be tested more extensively in actual patients; who many of them have run out of options with traditional approaches. We like to speak of it as a bench to bedside approach and we have that all contained within the hospital. So having all those elements together is immensely beneficial.

Tarah Schwartz: 5:37

You said that a lot of changes have happened with cancer research over the last many years. Do you see the pace staying over the years to come? Do you see us discovering and researching and finding cures quickly over the next 5-10-20 years?

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 5:55

Yes, I think it's accelerating. I made the point earlier that the tool set scientists have now at their disposal to look at the basic mechanism of disease. In other words, you know what's broken, and the tools necessary to try and fix some of these things have really increase exponentially in sophistication last few years. And so people are able to understand what's going wrong, more quickly, are able to find solutions more quickly, and are able to test them in patients more quickly. So I have no doubt that, we will have further advances. I've seen over the course of my career in a number of diseases.

Tarah Schwartz: 6:45

What about for the patients? A lot of patients really struggle with the chemotherapy, the radiation. Are these processes getting better or easier with the advancement of the cancer research and how it's being used to treat patients?

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 7:00

Again, you can't generalize. In some cancers, chemotherapy and radiation remain the best option. But in many other cancers, things have evolved. Just give you an example of the type of things I've seen. When I started my career, a disease called chronic myelogenous leukemia was universally fatal, unless you went through a bone marrow transplant. Where up to 20% of patients would die just from the procedure alone. Nowadays, all they have to do is take what we call tyrosine kinase inhibitors- a pill, and most of them have absolutely normal survival. We have professional hockey players, professional basketball players that have CML and are on treatment, and you would never know it. These people are able to perform very high levels of performance. So and there's been similar breakthroughs in a number of other cancers. And so for those patients, when new therapies have developed, it's been radical. I've seen absolutely radical changes over the course of my career. And for those cancers, where we're still waiting for something like that; we're hopeful that we'll make similar progress, given the tools that we have now.

Tarah Schwartz: 8:20

That's wonderful to hear. Dr. Pierre Laneuville is a is a cancer specialist. We're talking about World Cancer Day, it's fast approaching February 4. You're working with the MUHC Foundation to help raise money for patient care and research. Why is giving back in that way important to you?

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 8:36

It's really important. It supports the community, it helps to support the community of researchers, both basic and clinical that focus on trying to find solutions for cancer. People who get into this business, it's a lifelong commitment and sometimes you can work for years without any breakthroughs. It's not something that you can go turn on and off easily. So maintaining that community so they can focus on the work and not have to worry as much about knowing where the next salary will come from, or the next expenditures in lab will come from, really makes a huge difference. It allows people to focus on what they do best. And I think that this type of support over the years really has helped tremendously in finding the solutions that we have.

Tarah Schwartz: 9:31

So you heard it from Dr. Pierre Laneuville, the kind of support that your generosity can offer. Dr. Pierre Laneuville, thank you so much for joining us on Health Matters. We really appreciate your time today.

Dr. Pierre Laneuville: 9:43

Thanks for having me on the show. Bye bye.

Tarah Schwartz: 9:47

Thank you, bye bye. And if you'd like to help on World Cancer Day, you don't have to wait until February 4. Just go to triple W dot MUHC Foundation.com/stop cancer. Triple W dot MUHCFoundation.com/stopcancer. Coming up he was inspired by Terry Fox to fight for patients with cancer, and now he is fighting it himself. I'm Tarah Schwartz and this is Health Matters. Eddy Nolan is a fighter. He is a five time boxing champion and marathon runner. He has dedicated his life to giving back and helping his community. He has raised 10s of 1000s of dollars for cancer research and spoken to 1000s of students inspiring them to support cancer patients. Eddy is waiting for throat cancer surgery himself and is so grateful for the care that he has received at the McGill University Health Centre. He is now working with the MUHC Foundation for World Cancer Day. He is one of our ambassadors and Eddy joins me now. Hi, Eddy.

Eddy Nolan: 10:53

Hi, Tarah. How are you?

Tarah Schwartz: 10:55

I'm well, thank you. How are you feeling today?

Eddy Nolan: 10:57

I'm feeling good today. Thanks. Very good.

Tarah Schwartz: 11:01

Good. Now, Eddy you are inspired by Terry Fox. You You've never missed a Terry Fox Run from our conversations. Why is it so important for you to fundraise for cancer research and to talk to students about giving back?

Eddy Nolan: 11:13

I just felt at the time; back in 1980, when I witnessed what I was watching on television. It totally inspired me and I just felt I wanted to be part of something and so forth. I just entered the following year, up in Mount Royal, and I've taken it from there to where I am now.

Tarah Schwartz: 11:36

You never missed a run.

Eddy Nolan: 11:38

No, it's been 42 years. I've been very fortunate that through cancer and everything else I've been through. I've been very fortunate to be able to get up and get out there and run with children and keep preaching about cancer research and letting people know that not always cancer is a death sentence.

Tarah Schwartz: 11:57

Now, when were you first diagnosed with your cancer?

Eddy Nolan: 12:01

I was diagnosed back in January of 2011. Yeah, back then.

Tarah Schwartz: 12:08

And so what is your journey been like? We often talk about that in terms of cancer journey. What has it been like for you for the last 12 years?

Eddy Nolan: 12:16

Mostly the 12 years haven't been all that bad. I mean, the past year or two have been a little more challenging, due to scar tissue and not being able to eat anymore and feeding tubes. But the care and the compassion from everyone around me, doctors, nurses, staff has been unbelievable.

Tarah Schwartz: 12:39

Now, you're waiting for throat surgery to help make you a little more comfortable. Tell us about the care that you've received so far, and what the surgery is going to be doing to help you.

Eddy Nolan: 12:53

I was actually at the hospital this morning for pre-op and it was so smooth. Like I couldn't really believe it, how everything went one after the other. We were expecting to be there a full day and I was out in about three hours. So I was very pleased. I got a general knowledge of what's going to happen to me. It's a little scary but I have full faith in the doctors.

Tarah Schwartz: 13:23

We're speaking with Eddy Nolan, who is an MUHC Foundation ambassador for World Cancer Day. Now you're joining us on this World Cancer Day campaign. It's all about giving back. What do you want listeners to know about the importance of supporting cancer research and of giving back which is what you've done really for most of your adult life?

Eddy Nolan: 13:44

I feel it's very important to give back because again; people have to realize we all know someone who either had cancer, died from cancer, living with cancer. It's a terrible disease. It takes a lot from the person. But when you stand up, you fight back, you give back; the rewards are always there. I've met so many people; inspiring people, that has kept me going. Kids that have kept me going. Kids that want to help. And I've never stuck to anything long in my life. But for some reason, the Cancer Research has been my life's mission right now I guess.

Tarah Schwartz: 14:33

We all have a calling, I guess Eddy and this one sounds like it's yours. It sounds like your first inspiration from Terry Fox has carried you through four plus decades. Right?

Eddy Nolan: 14:44

Yeah, it's going to be 43 years this year. I'll be there again, hopefully.

Tarah Schwartz: 14:50

Even if you're walking, right Eddy? Even if you're walking...

Eddy Nolan: 14:53

Tarah, as long as I'm breathing. I will not miss the Terry Fox Run. I made that promise to my sister in 1994 when she passed away from cancer.

Tarah Schwartz: 15:05

The fact that you were working so hard to raise money and awareness for cancer. What was your reaction when you got your diagnosis?

Eddy Nolan: 15:14

I'll be honest, it was, it was complete shock. I started right away feeling sorry for myself. I said, I'm the guy running for 30 years. This is not supposed to happen to me. And then one of the kids had said to me, Well, how come it's not supposed to happen to you, Mr. Eddy? And I said, this kid is right. Coming out of a small boy's mouth, why not me? It's a disease that at first, we thought it was just people that smoke. But I've known people that don't drink, don't smoke, nothing and have had cancer. It's just a dreadful disease. We all have to come together and fight against it.

Tarah Schwartz: 15:55

Where do you get your optimism? I'm sure it's a day-by-day thing. On bad days, it must be an hour-by-hour thing. But where do you get that optimism to hold on and to keep moving forward and to stay positive?

Eddy Nolan: 16:09

I dig down deep. And I always think that with everything so far that I've been through, I've pulled through. There's a reason for all this. I've got a lovely wife, thank God who's a nurse so that doesn't hurt at all. Because I cannot remember many things from one minute to the next. And she's always, always, always had my back. In every situation and made me get up and keep going. So I guess it's a team effort all around.

Tarah Schwartz: 16:43

World Cancer Day is February 4 2023. We're gearing up for this wonderful campaign that features six patients, including you, Eddy, does World Cancer Day mean something different to you now?

Eddy Nolan: 16:56

It certainly does. It's something that we've got to keep the public and everyone aware of. Look at the people that have being taken away from us too early. Yes, it is. I don't know what to say it's very special to me.

Tarah Schwartz: 17:17

Yeah. And you are a special person, Eddy, I wanted to, I want to tell you that before we leave, I've had the opportunity to get to know you a little bit over the last couple of weeks. And, I think you're one of those really special people. And I wish you so much luck and care on your surgery that I know is coming up very soon. What is going to happen to you once that surgery is done? What is your healing process going to be like?

Eddy Nolan: 17:41

From what I'm told, I might spend three weeks to a month in the hospital. It's kind of the whole new building of the throat area, and I guess a lot of therapy. But I've been working very hard for the past month on the treadmill every day, doing five kilometres. I feel I'm ready for this fight again, and just keep going and just dig down deep. And do my best. Cancer is not going to take me it's not going to beat me. And this is what I have to do with that attitude.

Tarah Schwartz: 18:19

Yeah, we'll be thinking about you. Eddy, thank you so much for coming on the show and for being one of the ambassadors for the MUHC Foundation's World Cancer Day campaign. Thank you so much.

Eddy Nolan: 18:28

You're very welcome, Tarah, very welcome.

Tarah Schwartz: 18:32

And if you want to learn more about our World Cancer Day campaign, you can read about six extraordinary patients including Eddy just head to MUHC Foundation.com/stopcancer. MUHCFoundation.com/stopcancer. Coming up on Health Matters, attracting the world's best researchers to the MUHC is the way to ensure the best care for us all. I'm Tarah Schwartz and this is Health Matters. The MUHC Foundation wants to ensure that researchers are able to push the boundaries of medicine to find better treatments and cures for the multitude of illnesses and diseases that pose challenges to our health. In order to do that, we need to attract the brightest minds and top talent to the MUHC. That's where the Rising Star Program comes in. This program is designed to provide exceptional individuals with the resources they need for their careers to flourish. Cardiologist Dr. Patrick Lawler is the very first awardee of the Rising Star Program, which is funded by the MUHC Foundation. He will be joining the MUHC in the coming weeks. Thank you so much for being here, Dr. Lawler.

Dr. Patrick Lawler: 19:41

Thanks, it is really a privileged to join you today.

Tarah Schwartz: 19:43

So first of all, welcome back to Montreal. How do you feel about returning?

Dr. Patrick Lawler: 19:48

Thanks. It's great to be back. I'm very, very excited to be back. It's been a number of years; I guess more than 10 or so now since we left. So it does feel like a nice homecoming to be back.

Tarah Schwartz: 20:00

So you were last here when you were studying at McGill? Tell us a little bit about that time.

Dr. Patrick Lawler: 20:05

Sure, I went to medical school at McGill. I'm originally from Boston and went to medical school at McGill. I met my wife here who is a pediatrician. And we were at McGill for our internal medicine residency. And then we went to Boston for additional training in cardiology research, that kinds of stuff. Then we moved to Toronto, where we worked for six years. And now we are back in Montreal. We're very excited to be back. It's a great place and we have a lot of fond memories of being here over the years and I'm looking forward to forming more.

Tarah Schwartz: 20:36

Yeah, it is a wonderful city. You mentioned that you were born in Boston, you also trained in cities around the world, Sweden among them. So why did you make that choice to come back here to Montreal and to the MUHC in particular. What swayed you?

Dr. Patrick Lawler: 20:49

Yeah, good question. You're right. I was a Fulbright scholar in Stockholm at one point. Montreal has so many things to be excited about. Both on the life side, and then the academic and clinical side. From the life side, obviously, the city is just such a vibrant, energetic city. We've had the privilege, as you said, of living a lot of great places. Montreal really does stand out. It's just such a great combination of the old and the new and lots of focus on culture and arts and really just a very wonderful, warm culture. And we're really very excited to kind of be back amidst that; that'll be great. My wife is French Canadian, and has strong cultural roots here as well; which I'm really looking forward to introducing our children to more consistently as well. On the academic side of things, obviously, McGill is a top university in the world. It has an extraordinary deep bench of investigators and scientists that span multiple aspects of biology and clinical medicine and clinical research and, biostatistics and applied mathematics. Also more and more, a strong focus on artificial intelligence and an interest in kind of thinking about advanced analytic methods and new ways of delivering medical care. And to understand the complexity of the data that we generate in biomedicine and health care. And then on the clinical side, I just have a lot of fond memories from my clinical training here of really outstanding clinicians, people that really care a lot about patients. It will be really nice to kind of reconnect with a lot of familiar faces and meeting new people on the way, l am show as well.

Tarah Schwartz: 22:23

We are speaking with Dr. Patrick Lawler, a heart specialist and the very first awardee of the MUHC Foundation's Rising Star Program. This award, as I mentioned off the top of this interview, is a special award to bring top talent like yourself to the MUHC. So what is it like to be selected as the very first star of the Rising Star Program?

Dr. Patrick Lawler: 22:41

It's really a privilege. It's a privilege. I appreciate both on the kind of recognition level and then also on the opportunity level. I think we're really going to be able to do a lot of exciting science with the support that it's going to provide. And I think it's great to see that level of initial engagement and support for the science. It really just provides a nice both enthusiastic boost to the science and the support for some of the clinical impact of what we're trying to accomplish. Also obviously, provide the practical way of getting there with some of the funds that it provides and other infrastructure elements. So, we're very excited about it. I'm very excited about it.

Tarah Schwartz: 23:27

Let's talk a little bit about your research, Dr. Lawler. You've been chosen as the first Rising Star. Obviously, there's a big reason behind that, since there were a lot of people who could have been chosen, but it was you. So tell us a little bit about your research and what you're doing and inspire us with what you're doing.

Dr. Patrick Lawler: 23:46

We have a lot of different kinds of things going on. Obviously, COVID has totally changed a lot of people's trajectories and every aspect of life. So we were in a privileged position and leading up to this pandemic; in the sense that we were really interested in sort of the intersection between cardiology and severe infections. We recognize that when patients are hospitalized for severe infection, there's an increased risk of heart attacks, an increased risk of stroke. And one of the things that we recognize that some of our work and others is that that risk actually lasts for a long time. And so when patients in the hospital, cardiologists sometimes get called to come up to see someone with an infection who secondarily develops a heart attack from the stress of the infection and what the infection does to the body's response to the infection. Sometimes it's more harmful than helpful. In this case, it can sometimes increase the risk of heart attacks or heart failure, stroke and heart rhythms and these kinds of things. But what was a big insight over the last five to 10 years or so, is that that risk does seem to stick around for a while. There's a relatively high risk early on. But then it seems to still be detectable even for years after patients leave the hospital for a severe infection. In other words, it's a severe biology-changing moment where people start this trajectory that's gets recalibrated by the severe infection experience. And we've known for a while that inflammation causes heart disease, and changes in metabolism, oxidative stress. These pathways that are all perturbed during an infection, the body responds to them. Acutely, we have to fight off the infection, but then the body also keeps a lot of those response elements in place, because it says, we don't want it to have another infection so that we're now trying to prevent ourselves from getting infected again. In the process, there could be some secondary risks to the cardiovascular system that we're looking to more favorably modify. When COVID came, we were interested in events and blood clots and those things and infection. So we were really well-positioned to pivot a lot of that to studying COVID. We had a number of clinical trials and other work that helped clinicians understand what the right way to treat patients with COVID who are in the hospital, and either critically ill or moderately ill on the ward with a real focus on the cardiovascular complications, but also some of the broader complications in ICU care.

Tarah Schwartz: 26:17

It's interesting to me -so COVID actually made you pivot your research to look at how that was going to impact your research with regards to cardiology?

Dr. Patrick Lawler: 26:30

You got it. That's exactly right. We were interested in the idea of infection generally. And it's an infection with cardiology system. And then with COVID, we said, COVID seems to really have a lot of that. You've probably seen it all over the news- blood clots, and patients having heart attacks and lots of stuff. So we did really have an opportunity to pivot a lot of our previous focus, and also just the infrastructure of our research program to study that and randomized thousands and thousands of patients. We were able to come up with some practice-changing findings. And now what we're doing is not completely moving away but also broadening the lens quite a bit more. Back to where it was before COVID, which is now focused on other infections; bacterial pneumonia, or other viruses that cause respiratory infection, these kinds of things. We're continuing to keep that thematic focus on the intersection of infection and cardiology complications. But we're broadening it a little bit beyond COVID, to just look at lots of potential infection. So that's one part of what we do and that's the part that the Rising Star Award is supporting. And we have a broad array of other interests that reflect the clinical practice and other things. But that's where we really wanted our focus to really shift toward what the Rising Star is supporting.

Tarah Schwartz: 27:47

We are speaking with Dr. Patrick Lawler, a heart specialist, and soon to be an employee of the MUHC; recently back to Montreal. Now you do research, which I find is interesting, but you also care for patients. And I've heard you say that you really looking forward to getting onto the ward and being with patients. Does doing both help elevate each aspect of your work- the research and the clinical patient care?

Dr. Patrick Lawler: 28:09

It absolutely does. I think there's some spectacular scientists that focus only on the science and unhesitatingly has a huge part of how we've discovered important things over the years. But I do think the role of the clinician-scientist is really important in the whole equation. And it really helps us to design trials, ask questions, do things in a way that really is going to help patients. Above all else, we really want our impact to be on the actual patients. The idea is to start at the bedside and we take them into the lab, and the trial-setting and other places. We learn something important then we pivot back to the bedside and that process can take years. We have the privilege of watching it unfold pretty quickly during COVID because it was such a fast moving time. But absolutely right, that clinical practice/ research interfaces is really important. And a lot of my research is very much focused on the patients. Without a doubt, a lot of the patient experiences that I've seen firsthand have been part of care journeys for patients that really does become very specific questions in our research. We hope to learn from each patient's care and can tip it back in a way that helps future patients.

Tarah Schwartz: 29:22

All right. Dr. Lawler, I want to thank you so much for joining us on Health Matters. Welcome back to Montreal and congratulations on being the MUHC Foundation's first Rising Star.

Dr. Patrick Lawler: 29:31

Thanks, it's a real privilege to be back and looking forward to chatting again. Thanks very much, Tarah.

Tarah Schwartz: 29:35

Thank you so much. Next up on Health Matters. She was in her early 40s when she suffered a heart attack- what she wants everyone to know about their heart health. I'm Tarah Schwartz, you're listening to Health Matters. It was shocking to hear of the passing of Lisa Marie Presley at the age of 54. The cause of death was cardiac arrest. And while her father Elvis and her grandmother both passed away from heart attacks, women don't necessarily think of their risks of heart issues, heart disease is still more associated with a man's illness. Susan Rodrigues knows how heart issues can change your life. She was a healthy, active woman who was waiting in line at the bank when she had her heart attack. Susan is with me now to share her story. Thank you so much for being with us, Susan.

Susan Rodrigues: 30:17

Hi, Tarah. Thanks for me.

Tarah Schwartz: 30:20

When did you first suspect that something was wrong with your health? Take us back to that day.

Susan Rodrigues: 30:26

Actually, I didn't suspect anything was wrong. I was feeling tired. Getting extreme fatigue, I went to the doctor. We did some basic tests, hormone tests, thyroid tests, everything's fine. So I didn't think anything was wrong.

Tarah Schwartz: 30:42

Wow. So what were the symptoms you felt at that moment when you were standing in line at the bank?

Susan Rodrigues: 30:48

I went to the bank. We have a number of businesses. So I was heading to the bank to take care of that. I had my list- dry cleaner's, groceries, pick up my son, the rest of it; regular mom-life stuff. And then I started to get ear and jaw pain. Severe, like someone was looking at a knife or a screwdriver in my ear. And I thought, Oh, I must be getting the flu. I better hurry up and get my list done. Because I probably won't be able to do it tomorrow. So I kept going. It just didn't even pause. I just got in the car; it happened again, I actually had to pull the car over; I was in so much pain and discomfort. I still went to the bank and then I got to the bank...

Tarah Schwartz: 31:26

Oh my gosh...

Susan Rodrigues: 31:26

I know, right? You know, thinking, Gosh, if I'm getting sick, I better get that list done. So I went to the bank, while I'm standing at the bank, I started to feel sweaty, really sweaty. I can run 5km not break a sweat, not even need to redo my makeup. But I'm dripping at this point. And I'm tired, and I feel nauseous. And I think this has got to be the flu. I got my banking done, and then went outside and almost lost consciousness actually.

Tarah Schwartz: 31:54

Oh, my goodness. So what happened then? Did someone call an ambulance?

Susan Rodrigues: 32:00

I called my husband. And you know, I never call for stuff like that. He dropped everything, came and got me. He took one look at me and said, you need to go to hospital. Of course, I said no, I've got a list to do. I got stuff to do. You know, let me finish my things. And then I'll go to bed when you get home. And he was like, no, you need to go to the hospital. And still I am arguing. But I went to the hospital. And sure enough, with some tests and whatnot, I had had a heart attack. And I was 40 at the time.

Tarah Schwartz: 32:29

Were you shocked at that diagnosis? Did you ever think, I could be having a heart attack?

Susan Rodrigues: 32:35

No, not like Not at all. Because, I think that in most cases, women symptoms are different than men. And we've all been educated that a heart attack is somebody clutching their chest. Somebody who can't breathe. Somebody who has a left arm that's numb. I didn't have any of those symptoms. I didn't have chest pain. I wasn't having trouble breathing in the way that you would think. So it was very, very different. So no, I didn't think I was having heart attack at all. It was very shocking.

Tarah Schwartz: 33:10

We're speaking with Susan Rodrigues. And we're talking about heart health and her experience with having a heart attack at a young age. Having that heart attack, has it changed the way you look after your health?

Susan Rodrigues: 33:22

Oh, absolutely. I think as women we get busy. We're business owners, we're executives, we're wearing many hats. And we have kids and we're always putting our needs below everybody else's. But the best thing we can do is to put our needs first and start to think about our health in a different way. Because the last thing we want to do- I have a 19-year-old son now- I don't want to leave him alone. He needs his mom still; even though he's an adult. We have to think about that. Like if we're not there, my home life blew up. When I wasn't there to keep everybody organized, everything blew up. And so, the best thing I can do for myself and my family is to take care of myself. So I treat my health as a priority now. I get lots of rest; I make sure I eat well. I make exercise a priority. And not a lot of exercise by the way, I just go for a walk. You know, these things are all a priority now and they weren't before. I eat well, I tried to keep my weight down. It's not easy, especially going through menopause. I had my heart attack 10 years ago. Now I'm in menopause. And this is not an easy time. We have a lot of weird things happening to your body and it's difficult for us to take care of ourselves.

Tarah Schwartz: 34:40

I think this is something that we've talked about on the show multiple times, Susan. Saying exactly what you said that women are busy and we tend to think a bit of a man's issue and we ignore our symptoms, which is exactly what you did. And you know, right before you had no choice but to listen in effect. So what is the advice that you give to other women into terms of paying attention to those critical symptoms.

Susan Rodrigues: 35:04

You have to advocate for yourself. I think as women, we go to the doctor and we say we're tired and they chalk it up to being a woman. Chalk it up to having your period, chalk it up to menopause, chalk it up to all these other things. And we have to advocate. We have to push our doctors because everything that's studied is always about a man. It's never about a woman's body and we're really different. You can't ignore things that we think are normal, like getting tired. That's not normal if it's prolonged. The things that we think are normal about going through menopause, not all of it is normal, we have to go get checked. And if you're young, if you're under 40, it can happen to you too. And if you're not taking care of yourself, and you're tired, it's not normal. So go and ask your doctor about it. Ask to get your heart checked today. That's the best thing I can tell you. Go to your doctor and ask them check your heart. It's important.

Tarah Schwartz: 36:01

I love it. I love the advice. Susan Rodrigues had a heart attack at 40 years old. Now she's advocating for women to listen to themselves and to take care of themselves. When you spoke to your doctor about the fact that you'd had a heart attack, what did they tell you about whether or not this is common among women of that age group?

Susan Rodrigues: 36:18

I was I'm 53 now. It was almost 13 years ago, and there wasn't a lot of information about heart disease in women at the time. And so it was shocking. So I was just 40. So they didn't know what to do with me. They really didn't know what to do with me. And they didn't know why. I was getting questions like, Are you a cocaine user? Like, no!

Tarah Schwartz: 36:42

Oh, my goodness!

Susan Rodrigues: 36:43

So, it's really interesting. It's evolving, but not fast enough. So you don't feel well, you have to go get checked. It's not normal to not feel well for an extended period of time. And when I say extended period of time, I mean a week or two. If you're going on three months, and you don't feel well, you have to go get checked.

Tarah Schwartz: 37:04

You've waited too long. How are you doing now, Susan? You mentioned it's been almost 13 years. Does it sort of stay with you or have you moved past it or have you compartmentalized it? How are you processing and have processed it?

Susan Rodrigues: 37:16

Well, here's the problem. I now have a chronic disease. It's with me every day all the time, and it's changed my life completely. So if I get the flu, it takes the average person maybe a week to get over it. It's going to take me two weeks. If I drink a little too much champagne, we've all done it. And the next day, you're hungover takes the average person or a young person that day to get over that. It's going to take me three. Those are the things that once you have a chronic disease, you can't give it back. So do something before you get it.

Tarah Schwartz: 37:49

Wonderful advice. And, and a great point to end on Susan Rodrigues, I want to thank you for your time, for your inspiration, for sharing your story on the show today. We really appreciate it.

Susan Rodrigues: 37:58

Thank you very much. Have a great day.

Tarah Schwartz: 38:01

You too.

Susan Rodrigues: 38:02

Okay, bye bye.

Tarah Schwartz: 38:04

I'm Tarah Schwartz. Thank you so much for tuning in. What would you like to hear about on the show? Write to us at healthmatters at MUHCFoundation.com. And another reminder, join us for World Cancer Day at triple W dot MUHCFoundation.com/stopcancer, you can read about six extraordinary patients and learn about our wonderful fundraising campaign for World Cancer Day. That's triple W dot MUHCFoundation.com/stopcancer. I hope you'll join me again next Sunday. Thanks so much for listening to Health Matters and stay healthy.