Giving the best possible care to patients with endometriosis

This week on Health Matters, guest host Kelly Albert speaks with Pascale Charbonneau, an endometrial cancer survivor whose cancer was detected at an early stage thanks to the DOvEEgene test. March is Endometriosis Awareness Month, Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen and Dr. Andrew Zakhari discuss EndoCARES, a centre of excellence to provide more personalized treatments to patients with endometriosis. And, Debbie Ann Vokey’s life changed due to a severe pulmonary embolism but her life was saved thanks to the Lachine Hospital. 

Cette semaine à Questions de santé, l’animatrice invitée Kelly Albert discute avec Pascale Charbonneau, une survivante d’un cancer de l’endomètre dépisté à un stade précoce grâce au test DOvEEgene. Mars est le Mois de sensibilisation à l’endométriose, et les Drs Dong Bach Nguyen et Andrew Zakhari parlent d’EndoCARES, un centre d’excellence visant à offrir des traitements plus personnalisés aux patientes atteintes d’endométriose. Et la vie de Debbie Ann Vokey a changé en raison d’une embolie pulmonaire grave, mais elle a été sauvée grâce à l’Hôpital de Lachine.

Transcript

Kelly Albert  00:00
Hi there. Thank you for joining us. Tarah Schwartz is off this week. I'm Kelly Albert and this is Health Matters on CJAD 800. On today's show, we speak with a woman whose life changed after the unthinkable happened. She is sharing her harrowing health experience in gratitude for the life-saving care she received at the Lachine hospital and the doctor who saved her life. And later in the show, we speak with the co-founders of a new centre at the MUHC designed to treat women with complex health issues like endometriosis. To begin this afternoon, Pascale Charbonneau is lending her voice to spread awareness about endometrial cancer and to share her gratitude for an innovative diagnostic test that was discovered here in Montreal. The MUHC's Dr. Lucy Gilbert discovered the DOvEEgene test; a diagnostic test that aims to discover ovarian and endometrial cancers at an earlier stage when it is more treatable. Pascale is one of Dr. Gilbert's patients. And she joins me now. Thank you for being here, Pascale.

Pascale Charbonneau  00:57
Oh, my God, what a great introduction. Thank you so much. I'm Thank you for having me.

Kelly Albert  01:02
Well, thank you for being here and for sharing your story because I really think that it's something that people can relate to. You were always very vigilant about your health because your grandmother and your mother went through cancer. Can you tell us a little bit about what you knew about their health?

Pascale Charbonneau  01:19
Yeah, absolutely. So I was too young to remember. But my mother told me my grandmother got cervical cancer in her maybe early 60s. Okay. Then my mother got endometrial cancer around the same age. Unfortunately, I got endometrial cancer at 62. You know, not a surprise. But I was lucky enough to be diagnosed at an early stage. So thanks to DOvEEgene test.

Kelly Albert  01:48
Absolutely. You had this knowledge; this background knowledge about your family health. What was going through your mind when you receive that diagnosis at 62?

Pascale Charbonneau  02:00
I have to admit that it was a great shock. It's tough. It's scary. Yet, because I was already participating in the DOvEE Project- you talked about in your introduction. I knew the symptoms already. So when I went back to DOvEE because I have more specific symptoms. So I call them and they saw me very quickly. And when Dr. Gilbert saw me to announce that I had this cancer, I was sure I had this cancer. It was obvious with all the symptoms I had. So I was expecting it. But yet, it's a great shock.

Kelly Albert  02:43
Of course.

Pascale Charbonneau  02:44
But Dr. Gilbert told me right away that I reacted so very well, by coming to see them so quickly. So I was caught at a very early stage. I was confident. I was just looking forward to the surgery. Please take this out of my body. If it's possible.

Kelly Albert  03:01
Of course, that's so understandable. We're in conversation with Pascale Charbonneau who is an endometrial cancer survivor. She's one of Dr. Lucy Gilbert's patients of the DOvEE Project. You mentioned that you had very specific symptoms. Can you tell me a little bit about those symptoms of what you were feeling? And what you were experiencing that you knew it was endometrial cancer?

Pascale Charbonneau  03:22
The symptoms I had at the beginning, it could be any kind of problems...of medical problems, and you can have those kinds of symptoms. But when you put them all together, it's like, oh no. I had problems with nausea, loss of appetite. You know, when you feel you feel that you're full quickly when you eat. Bloating, but significant bloating, not just a little bit like all the time and stomach pain, back pain, pelvis pain, and leg pain. And then what added to that was a bleeding. And then it was oh no, that's not normal. So I called back DOvEE and I got the tests right away. And indeed, my endometrium was too thick. They did the biopsy and all the tests. A couple of weeks later, I saw Dr. Gilbert with the diagnosis.

Kelly Albert  04:26
My goodness, but those symptoms are so vague. I'm so grateful that you knew what to expect because I think a lot of people listening might have just said oh, maybe I ate too much or I eat too quickly or I'm not drinking enough water or I stood too long. Those are symptoms that you can kind of really dismiss easily.

Pascale Charbonneau  04:46
Absolutely. And I was going to my osteopath. I was telling him. I have pain all over but I feel that it's not structural. I feel that it's inside of my pelvis. That something's going wrong and he said that I'm Yeah, I feel the same thing. So all that and because I was being followed by the DOvEE Project, I knew the symptoms so it's good that the women know all those instances to be aware and to be vigilant.

Kelly Albert  05:24
Of course we're in conversation with Pascale Charbonneau who is an endometrial cancer survivor. She is one of Dr. Lucy Gilbert's patients for the DOvEE Project. So you mentioned the surgery a moment ago. You had the cancer removed. And so what was treatment like after that once the cancer was removed?

Pascale Charbonneau  05:42
I was lucky enough that the cancer did not spread out of my uterus, so they took away everything. The uterus, the ovaries, the ganglions, how do we say that in English? They took everything. Ganglions is the nodes.

Kelly Albert  06:01
Oh, the nodes. Okay, yes.

Pascale Charbonneau  06:04
Yeah, and they weren't contaminated. I was lucky enough that it didn't spread out of my uterus. So they took everything out. And, I don't have to have any treatments.

Kelly Albert  06:32
Wow, you don't have to have chemotherapy or radiation is wonderful.

Pascale Charbonneau  06:35
Yes, I'm so so very lucky. And I know that so many women do not have the same chance to be taken at a very early stage. So I feel for them.

Kelly Albert  06:46
Absolutely. I'll give a bit of background about the DOvEE Project for those who don't know. This is a test that Dr. Lucy Gilbert invented. And the problem with ovarian and endometrial cancer, which is one of the top four cancers that kill women is that the symptoms are so vague, as Pascale was mentioning, that often it's diagnosed at a later stage. And it is a lot harder to treat at a later stage because the cancer can spread. So the goal of the DOvEEgene test is to find the cancer at an earlier stage when it is more treatable when you can avoid things like chemotherapy and radiation, if possible. And so Pascale, I just want to know, what is it like to be in the care of Dr. Lucy Gilbert?

Pascale Charbonneau  07:25
Oh, God. She's a wonderful woman and wonderful doctor. It's her who announced the diagnosis. She's my oncologist. And I felt so confident and so safe with her. And I was taken care of by her and her team, so well, during the whole process. She's clear, and she's calm, and she's reassuring. I just loved her really, I really felt taken care of greatly. Yeah.

Kelly Albert  07:59
It's so lovely to hear. And, and the DOvEEgene test is in the last phase of the clinical trial, which means once it goes through the clinical trial, it'll be go to approval for Health Canada and the FDA. And this will make the test readily available at your doctor's office for every woman. The trial will end soon so we're hoping that it'll go really quickly and really well. Pascale, you have a daughter, you have a granddaughter. What is it like to know that there is Dr. Lucy Gilbert and this test that is available for women, that's going to take care of them in the future?

Pascale Charbonneau  08:34
It's so so so reassuring for me because the first reaction of my daughter when I told her the news that I was diagnosed with endometrial cancer was, of course, great sadness and fear of losing me. But the second reaction was to say, okay, that that means that I will inevitably be at risk too. But I was able to reassure her right away by telling her about this test going on and that will be available soon. So I'm very, very reassured to know that my daughter, my granddaughter will be able to benefit from this test. And if they develop these cancers or anything in it, it's a legacy to them and it's a legacy to all women behind us. So, yes, I'm really reassured and she is now too.

Kelly Albert  09:26
Amazing. Pascale that was a beautiful thought. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate you sharing your story and chatting with me.

Pascale Charbonneau  09:33
It was such a pleasure. Can I add a little thing?

Kelly Albert  09:36
Of course!

Pascale Charbonneau  09:37
I think this test is so important and this is such a breakthrough because it is created here in Montreal, it will make history and this test is to ovarian and endometrial cancers what the Pap test is to cervical cancer. It will be available, as you said, at your doctor's office one day. It will change the face of prevention. By donating, we really contribute to that. So it's fantastic. I'm so grateful.

Kelly Albert  10:08
Yes, we can change countless lives by helping the DOvEE Project go forward. You can find out more information at MUHCFoundation.com. Pascale, thank you so much for your time.

Pascale Charbonneau  10:18
Thank you very much to you.

Kelly Albert  10:20
That is Pascale Charbonneau; she is an endometrial cancer survivor and she is sharing her story about the DOvEE Project today. Next on Health Matters, a new centre that takes an innovative approach to improve access to care for women. Tarah Schwartz is off this week. I'm Kelly Albert. Welcome back to Health Matters on CJAD 800. Endometriosis is a condition that affects about 10% of childbearing aged women. That disorder has a variety of symptoms that can include debilitating pelvic pain, which often leads to an impairment in everyday activities. Yet studies show that a significant delay of seven years is on average for when the time of the first symptoms happen to the diagnosis, which is much too long. A team of physicians at the MUHC is working to help women living with endometriosis get access to excellent care. Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen is an obstetrician gynecologist at the MUHC, and one of the cofounders of EndoCARES. Thank you so much for joining me, Dr. Nguyen.

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  11:16
Hi, Kelly. Thank you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure to be here.

Kelly Albert  11:20
It's a pleasure to chat with you. So I want to get right from the start. You know what inspired you to go into obstetrics and gynecology?

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  11:28
There's several factors throughout your career that leads you to pursue a specific specialty. For me, it was the people you meet, the patient encounters you have and the teams that you end up integrating in. And over the years, my training has led me to specialize in complex gynecological surgery. And today, I mean, I can't have a more rewarding practice. Where I see patients who are otherwise healthy who come in with a specific gynecological concern. And then once we're able to treat them, then they're able to resume their normal life. That's what's the satisfaction comes from.

Kelly Albert  12:05
I bet. I bet that must be really rewarding, because, you briefly went over, but what are some of the conditions that you see?

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  12:11
I see many basically benign gynecologic conditions. These include endometriosis, fibroids, ovarian cysts, and menstrual disorders. But I would say that my main focus and main interest is endometriosis, especially those that are severe and affect multiple organs.  Yeah, absolutely. So, laparoscopy has taken a big change over the past 10 years. I'd say now the standard has become laparoscopy. The reason is, laparoscopy has much better recovery and outcomes overall. Now patients are able to have the surgery and go home on the same day a few hours after. And you can do almost everything by laparoscopy. And laparoscopy is basically when we do a surgery, using a little small camera and through small keyhole incisions on the skin. Typically, patients have four incisions on the abdomen, each measuring a centimeter or less, and we're able to remove fibroids, we're able to exercise endometriosis. And we're able to do hysterectomy is all through laparoscopy.

Kelly Albert  12:33
And so these are fairly complex surgeries, I imagine. You do them in a minimally invasive way. So in general terms or in laymen terms, can you describe what that looks like?  That's incredible. And the recovery time is so minimal because the incisions are so small?

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  13:40
Yeah, exactly. So when people used to make a larger incision from below, then recovery would typically be six weeks and they stay in the hospital for like two days. But now with laparoscopy they go home a few hours after and they're able to walk and go to the washroom, everything on their own; on day one. And by three to four weeks, they're able to return back to work.

Kelly Albert  14:09
That's incredible in conversation with Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen, who is an obstetrician gynecologist at the MUHC, one of the co-founders of EndoCARES. I think it's so inspiring to hear that technology is improving and we're finding new ways to do these surgeries where the recovery time is so much shorter, where you can get back to where you were, and feel so much better. Has there been vast developments in the field since you started, maybe in the last 5-10 years?

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  14:37
As I said the landscape has changed a lot. I would say that before 10 years ago, the majority of surgeries that were done open and laparoscopy was rather new. But as time progresses, I'd say 90% of hysterectomy is can be done laparoscopically. In the past when uteri were very large because of fibroids, and most of them would require an open incision. With increasingly even with fibroids that reach all the way up to the belly button; we're able now to perform these through laparoscopy. Also, the picture of how we treat endometriosis has also changed significantly over the past few years. Now we know that the more complete the surgery years in terms of removing all the disease, that you see inside the abdomen, the lesser the risk of recurrence and the better outcomes in terms of pain and quality of life for women is following a surgery for endometriosis. Increasingly, imaging has also improved our possibility of seeing the disease before the surgery is even performed, which helps us remove this disease that is very, very deep, that affects areas in the pelvis that we might not be able to see properly even by laparoscopy. So a combination of the advances in imaging modalities and in surgery is now improving care for women significantly and patients overall. So I'm very, very happy to be in this time where you're seeing all this advancement lead to actual better patient outcome.

Kelly Albert  16:23
I can imagine because the stat that I read off the top where it can take up to seven years sometimes for women to get an endometriosis diagnosis. With these advances that are being made, is it helping to reduce that time of discovering that this condition is impacting the patient?

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  16:38
We do think so. We don't have studies that have looked into this specifically. But it is a good topic to look into. But definitely that in the past, a lot of people were doing laparoscopy to diagnose endometriosis. Versus now, the great majority of women we're able to know whether they have an issue with it or not beforehand. And so whether that's through an ultrasound and or MRI, in the case of advanced disease, we're able to counsel patients way better. We're able to start them on medical therapies without even need for a surgery eventually if they respond well. And so all of this decreases the amount of unnecessary surgeries that also leads to patients receiving an earlier diagnosis. In the past, if they have a large ovarian cyst with endometriosis; most ultrasounds would pick up. But now more advanced ultrasounds are able to look at what we call soft markers of endometriosis. So little signs of endometriosis that then we can tell patients actually, it seems that the endometriosis is involving the bowel, or attaining your bladder or your ovaries. Based on that we can manage and give a diagnosis to patients more readily. And so it's always...

Kelly Albert  17:57
And tailor the approach a little bit better to the specific type of case that they have.

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  18:02
Exactly.

Kelly Albert  18:03
We're running a little short on time. But I would love to talk about EndoCARES, which is this new centre that we're hoping to open. The MUHC Foundation is fundraising to help EndoCARES. So what do you hope this centre will bring to the MUHC and how do you hope it'll help women?

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  18:17
EndoCARES is a project that we've had at heart. And it really stems from the collaboration of multiple sub-specialties who are specialized in endometriosis. And the goal is that we're able to have one centre that has all the specialties necessary for women with endometriosis. So if a patient presents, for instance, with a difficulty getting pregnant. Then we have a team of specialists in infertility and in gynecology to take care of that. If women present with significant debilitating pain and also have a bowel symptomatology related, so large bowel lesion or bladder lesions and we have a team of gynecological experts but also bowel surgeons and a urologist. All of us really work as a team to be able to offer patients with the best surgery that is the right surgery for them. And the hope is that with this, patients have more timely access to care. They receive the proper treatment, and they can undergo one surgery with a full team of people who know exactly what the best treatment is for them. And hopefully this will allow them to have one surgery in their lifetime that will be the right one for them and also done at the right time.

Kelly Albert  19:31
I really love what you just said. Because it takes on... it's sort of a key word that we're using these days, a multidisciplinary approach. There's a bunch of people from different specialties that are working together to help treat patients. So was that important for you? When you were coming up with the idea for EndoCARES to have this multidisciplinary approach of all of these doctors working together to give patients the best care that they can have?

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  19:58
Absolutely, I think you nailed it. This is really the most important part of all of this. The fact that multiple people who have expertise are together. I know of a lot of specialists who might offer a certain part of the care. But here really the goal is that patients see a gynecologist who knows the disease well; and who not only that, but has the backup of an entire team to be able to take care of all the facets that are associated with endometriosis. And so, yeah, I think the entire program is based on not only the fact that we're five OB-GYNs, five gynecologists who are specializing advanced surgery and endometriosis, but that's not sufficient. The need is to have an entire team of people who understand all the different parts of endometriosis to be able to help patients.

Kelly Albert  20:53
It's really fascinating. It's a really fascinating subject, and I'm going to definitely have you back on the show because I think we can continue this conversation. Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen, thank you so much for joining us on Health Matters.

Dr. Dong Bach Nguyen  21:06
Thank you so much, Kelly.

Kelly Albert  21:07
That was Dr. Nguyen, an obstetrician gynecologist at the MUHC. Coming up we continue our conversation about EndoCares. Tarah Schwartz is off this week. I'm Kelly Albert and this is Health Matters. March is endometriosis Awareness Month and as we heard in our previous segment, about 10% of women of childbearing ages have endometriosis and face sometimes debilitating conditions, and infertility is another one of them. But a team of physicians and surgeons are dedicated to offering a centre of excellence for women who have endometriosis with EndoCARES, a centre that promotes a collaborative research initiative and standardization of clinical practice to help women improve the care they receive. The MUHC Foundation is fundraising to help get the centre much-needed resources. Dr. Andrew Zakhari is an obstetrician-gynecologist at the MUHC and one of the cofounders of EndoCARES. He joins me now. Hello, Dr. Zakhari.

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  22:01
Hi, Kelly, thanks so much for having me on.

Kelly Albert  22:02
Thank you so much for joining me. I always love to hear the background story of the doctors that work at the MUHC. So what inspired you to get into obstetrics and gynecology?

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  22:12
Well, thanks for that question. I remember rotating as a trainee to OB-GYN like we all do in medical school. And we worked with so many great mentors in the field. Many of whom are now my friends and colleagues. Seeing these physicians having such a big impact on patients’ quality of life, whether it was removing masses, or cysts, or helping women with their pain or fertility, I found that overall, it's a really positive experience. And I thought there was so much growth in the surgical field of gynecology, and that really piqued my interest. I see now that the kinds of operations we're offering has evolved so much over the last two decades. So it was really exciting to join the field and become a part of that.

Kelly Albert  22:48
We talked about it very briefly with Dr. Nguyen, just how much advancement has been made in the last decade or so in treating these conditions. Is it fun to be on the front lines and see all these new treatment ideas or new surgery ideas come into fruition in your practice?

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  23:05
Absolutely. And when we talked to some of our senior colleagues who have seen evolution over the decades, it's amazing how growth seemed to be sort of very slow. There wasn't much change until the last about maybe 15-20 years where things really shot off between laparoscopy and now there's this new surgical approach called vNOTES, which offers totally scarless surgery for women in gynecology. And we're actually the first center in Canada to publish on vNOTES, which we're really proud of. So it's a ton of fun to stay up to date and to innovate, if we can say and be a part of that growth.

Kelly Albert  23:40
We're in conversation with Dr. Andrew Zachary, who is an obstetrician gynecologist at the MUHC, and one of the co-founders of EndoCARES. I like that you just mentioned on the front lines, because I think maybe sometimes we don't always think about how the MUHC and the Research Institute of the MUHC. They're some of the top hospitals in Canada. Like they're really advanced centers that are working on innovative new solutions and things like that. When it comes to women's health, do you find that there's more attention being put on the different conditions that impact women and different approaches to help get them the best care?

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  24:13
That's a great point, I think we're lucky that the spotlight is slowly shifting a bit more towards women's health than it has been in the past. I think it's less of a taboo topic than perhaps it used to be. And what helps a lot too, as we have more and more celebrities are openly discussing their conditions. Like Angelina Jolie who discussed her high risk genetic condition or Lena Dunham who had a hysterectomy for endometriosis. This opens the door for more conversations in the public forum and it really helps with awareness. And I think that's really, really helpful. Endometriosis is still I think, in general, poorly understood by the public, if it's known at all. Even among physicians, it can be a tricky condition. It's invisible and ultrasound or MRI. Sometimes it's the symptoms and science can be very subtle. So I'm very optimistic that with more initiatives like EndoCARES, we're going to keep them moving in the right direction as far as awareness goes.

Kelly Albert  25:05
I think that's really interesting that you brought up that sometimes the symptoms can be subtle or vague. Because I feel like there's so many conditions where, unless you know that you're susceptible to some particular disorder or disease, you might not necessarily think that it's something important that's impacting your health. You might just be like, you know, I ate too much. Or maybe I didn't move as much as I should. Or maybe, I'm just tired today. Is building that awareness, slowly bringing it to the forefront of, if you have the symptoms of this, you might have endometriosis? Is that helpful to bring patients towards you?

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  25:44
Absolutely. I think you bring up a really good point that it's definitely important for people to be health conscious and keep an eye on symptoms that could be signs of something happening. It's tricky with endometriosis, in particular, because pain with periods is almost universal experience. So trying to distinguish what is endometriosis and what is sort of primary dysmenorrhea, we can call it or just painful periods from any other reason is tricky. But at least knowing to get checked out can help a lot of women figure out that they have endometriosis, as opposed to just saying, Well, you know, everyone has painful periods. I'm sure I have nothing happening. So definitely, awareness is super helpful to get diagnoses up.

Kelly Albert  26:22
That's a really important point, I think. So we're in conversation with Dr. Andrew Zakhari, who is an obstetrician gynecologist at the MUHC, you're one of the cofounders of EndoCARES. So in your words, tell me what you find very special and innovative about EndoCARES.

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  26:37
We touched upon it a little bit, and that women's health and endometriosis, particularly, they don't get a lot of airtime as much as they deserve. And so I'm really happy to be doing this with you right now. That could translate down to getting less resources in the field of OB-GYN or less access to the operating room, less access to high-quality imaging, even research funding, everything in the domain of women's health and endo like we feel is still lagging compared to other fields like cancer research or general surgery. And so, with EndoCARES, we're very optimistic that it'll help in two big ways. First of all, it's a nice one stop shop for patients dealing with complex endometriosis, which can affect multiple organs and sites in the body. And these patients really do need access to a full team, because no one specialist can manage endometriosis that affects the bladder and the uterus and the bowel and the diaphragm. So just having this team in place is a huge plus for the patients because they're getting the benefit of expert input from so many specialists in one centre. So I think that's really great. But the second way, which EndoCARES can sort of be a game changer for us is that it gives us a platform to advocate for women's health and for endometriosis. So it creates a banner behind which all of these stakeholders in women's health can rally behind. This includes patients, other physicians, even industry partners, allied health care workers, like physiotherapists, psychologists, pain specialists. So all these people now have somewhere to get behind and petition for more resources. And so we really hope that with time, this could be a stepping stone to getting more state-of-the-art equipment for our patients, improved access to the operating room, shortening wait times for surgery, and also helping us push research forward in the field, which is something we're all very passionate about at the MUHC.

Kelly Albert  28:19
Dr. Zakhari, you're very passionate, I can see, I can feel it in this conversation with you about how much you want to help your patients. At the MUHC Foundation, we talk a lot about big dreams. Do you have a big dream for what you hope to solve or what you hope to accomplish during your career?

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  28:36
I'm really happy to be working with this team, because I feel everyone is very engaged. And the other co-founder, Dr. Nguyen, he was really a driving force behind this initiative. So right now EndoCARES is still in its infancy. But I'm really excited to see how it'll grow and reach its full potential. And how I see that happening is I think we need more dedicated nursing and administrative staff who would help us run this like a well-oiled machine. We need to make easy access for patients to all the resources they need, like physiotherapy and pain clinics. I think the next step after that would be to have collaborators and other institutions across Montreal and even across Quebec to really make this a provincial network, which would help serve these patients. So I think it's all about access to care, like streamlining care, and it'd be really cool to see.

Kelly Albert  29:23
Absolutely, the MUHC Foundation that's fundraising to help get EndoCARES off the ground. Philanthropy- we talk about it a lot with the physicians and surgeons that we have on the show. Just how impactful philanthropy can be to help projects like these. The government does subsidize health care in the province so we do have that benefit. However, if we want to go above and beyond to help patients we really need philanthropy to help kick-start these projects. So, in your opinion, how important is donations, philanthropic contributions from the general public, it could be $5 or from corporations that are listening to the segment.

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  30:02
I think it's vitally important. As you said, even if it's just $5. If everybody were to give $5, then we would have more than enough money to meet our health care needs. But that's not realistic. So whoever will be giving, we're really, really appreciative, we'll make sure that this money goes to good use. Any and all amounts, they all add up; every dollar counts. So it's extremely important. And we're really happy the foundation behind this on this.

Kelly Albert  30:26
Well, I have to say with people like you and Dr. Nguyen at the forefront of this project, I think we're in very good hands, I have to say.

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  30:32
Thanks very much.

Kelly Albert  30:33
Thank you so much for your time. Dr. Zakhari. I really appreciate you joining us on Health Matters today.

Dr. Andrew Zakhari  30:38
Thank you so much for having me. And thanks for everything.

Kelly Albert  30:41
That's Dr. Andrew Zakhari, who is an obstetrician gynecologist at the MUHC. He is also one of the cofounders of EndoCARES. March is Endometriosis Awareness Month, so it's important to talk about these conditions. Next up on Health Matters, her surgeon said that he had never seen someone with her condition survive, but she did. And now she wants to help. Tarah Schwartz is off this week. I'm Kelly Albert, and you're listening to Health Matters on CJAD 800. It was a regular day for Debbie Ann Vokey when the unthinkable happened. She had a severe pulmonary embolism and was rushed to the Lachine hospital. Debbie Ann thankfully is doing much better today and is sharing her story because of her profound gratitude for the care she received at the Lachine hospital. Debbie is joining me now. Thank you so much for being here.

Debbie Ann Vokey  31:27
You're welcome. My pleasure.

Kelly Albert  31:29
So let's go back to this day. It was just a regular day for you. Did you have any indication leading up to this moment that there was anything wrong with your health?

Debbie Ann Vokey  31:39
Not at all.

Kelly Albert  31:41
It was really out of the blue?

Debbie Ann Vokey  31:43
Completely. We were walking on the waterfront. For about 30 minutes, when all of a sudden I couldn't breathe, and I kind of collapsed.

Kelly Albert  31:54
Oh my goodness. So it was just one moment to the next you had difficulty breathing and collapsed?

Debbie Ann Vokey  31:59
Exactly. And then there was like this massive chest pain that was stopping me from breathing.

Kelly Albert  32:07
Oh, my goodness, that is terrifying. Were you conscious while it was happening? Did you know what was going on?

Debbie Ann Vokey  32:14
So I was conscious. But I didn't know what was happening. I thought maybe an asthma attack because I do have asthma. But I never had an asthma attack. But in the end, it was totally not an asthma attack.

Kelly Albert  32:29
So you were rushed to the hospital. And what happened in those first few moments of you arriving at the Lachine hospital?

Debbie Ann Vokey  32:37
So they the ambulance was headed to Verdun. But they had to stop at Lachine hospital because I was getting worse too quickly. So I just wanted to mention that. Then fortunately, Lachine was closer by. When I got there, I think they brought me into the code room. And then it was just screaming and yelling, they were going left and right that I was crashing. And they were trying to figure out what was wrong with me. And yeah, so it took a short time. But then they finally passed the test and determined it was a pulmonary embolism and it was severe.

Kelly Albert  33:27
We're in conversation with Debbie Ann Vokey who, as she just mentioned, suffered a pulmonary embolism one day without any previous symptoms. What was going through your mind, as you said, screaming and running around? What were you feeling in those moments? You must have been terrified.

Debbie Ann Vokey  33:46
My memory is, is not that I was terrified, maybe because I've had a serious accident in the past. But I was just like they're looking for what it is and they're going to figure it out. For sure anxious. But I had confidence that they were going to find what it is and fix it.

Kelly Albert  34:13
And when this happened to you COVID protocols were still in place. So your family couldn't be with you at this moment. Did you speak to them about what they were experiencing while you were in the hospital?

Debbie Ann Vokey  34:27
Yes. So they were contacted by Dr. Angelopoulos and were told that I wasn't doing great and to prepare for the worst. And that if I would make it, then there's a big chance that I could have brain damage. And then my family had to wait an hour and a half before he called back to say well finally, she seems to be doing good because she's making jokes.

Kelly Albert  35:03
That's a true testament to your character. I think to be going through something so terrifying and you're cracking jokes with the team.

Debbie Ann Vokey  35:10
Yeah, exactly. That's, that's me.

Kelly Albert  35:14
And so the thing I heard about your story was that the physician actually said to you that he had never seen someone with this severe of a pulmonary embolism survive. So what is it like to know that?

Debbie Ann Vokey  35:29
Yeah, so that is, that is scary. And I did suffer from Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome. At first, anywhere I'd go, I'd check where the nearest hospital was. Because there was no sign to tell me it was coming. Anytime that, I feel anything wrong, slightly wrong, or potentially wrong. My first thought was to rush to a hospital. So that was hard for the first year.

Kelly Albert  36:05
I imagined. I mean, that makes sense. You went through something very scary and traumatic very quickly. It has a completely life-changing effect on you.

Debbie Ann Vokey  36:15
Correct. Yep. And so I'm more wary of anything that I feel that is not normal.

Kelly Albert  36:23
Understandable. We're in conversation with Debbie Ann Vokey. You mentioned very briefly, Dr. Angelopoulos. So tell me what it's like now that you're a little bit further removed from what happened to you. Tell me what it's like to have been under his care and to know that he was the one who was taking care of you.

Debbie Ann Vokey  36:43
He and his team are really great. He was good at keeping me up to date on what was going on, what were my options. At no time did I feel that I wasn't aware of what was going on. But I didn't know at any time that there was a chance that I wasn't going to make it though. So they kept encouraging me and stuff, which I think was a good thing.

Kelly Albert  37:17
Yeah, I'm glad that you had that support when it was a very scary time. And now, you're so grateful for the care that you received at Lachine Hospital, you're lending your story to the fundraising campaign. The MUHC Foundation is fundraising for the Lachine hospital to help further along that modernization project and help get them state-of-the-art equipment to help patients. This is a really harrowing story. Why did you feel it was important to share what happened to you and advocate for this hospital?

Debbie Ann Vokey  37:47
My example of not being able to continue on to go to another hospital, like Verdun or another one makes it important that Lachine continues to offer all kinds of services. And, they did save a life. And I think that it's very important for our community to have a hospital and as many services as they can. So I was hoping to raise awareness by doing this.

Kelly Albert  37:48
I think it's incredible that you're sharing your story, because it had such a life-changing effect. You mentioned you're doing better today. How are you doing today now that you're a little bit further removed from what happened?

Debbie Ann Vokey  38:39
For sure, I'm on anticoagulants because they don't know the source. So I just need to be careful not to cut myself. I always need to be aware, if I hit my head, I need to get it examined to make sure there's not internal bleeding. So I still have like, although I'm over the major, post-traumatic stress syndrome; I'm still were wary when I do like new things that I haven't done or new activities, you know, what if? What if? Especially since I'm anticoagulated, what if I cut myself? But mostly I'm back to my regular stuff. And I started downhill skiing and going cross country skiing and stuff. So I'm really glad about that.

Kelly Albert  39:08
Yeah, I'm really glad to hear that too. I'm glad to hear that you're on the road to recovery because it is something that can have a long standing effect on you. I'm so glad to hear that you're doing better, Debbie. I really appreciate you sharing your story with me on the show today.

Debbie Ann Vokey  39:46
Thanks so much for having me.

Kelly Albert  39:47
That's Debbie Ann Vokey, who suffered a pulmonary embolism and was cared for at the Lachine Hospital. She's sharing her story to raise awareness for the hospital. If you would like to donate to the Lachine hospital campaign. You can find out more at MUHCfoundation.com I'm Kelly Albert, thank you for tuning in. What would you like to hear about on the show? You can write to me at health matters at MUHCfoundation.com. You can also follow the MUHC Foundation on social media, sign up for our newsletter or hear episodes you may have missed at MUHCfoundation.com. Tarah is back next Sunday. Thank you so much for listening to Health Matters and stay healthy.