Is there a biological reason that people experience chronic pain?

This week on Health Matters, Tarah Schwartz speaks with Aphrodite Salas about the successful Lyceum of Greek Women of Montreal fashion show that fundraised for the DOvEEgene Project. Pierre-Marc Legris discusses the environmental initiatives at the MUHC and the projects underway to make the Glen even more sustainable. Dr. Irah King shares the early data from a promising study about the microbiome and chronic pain. And, Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze discusses her short film featuring kidney transplant patients. 

Cette semaine à Questions de santé, Tarah Schwartz discute avec Aphrodite Salas du grand succès du défilé de mode du Lycée des femmes helléniques de Montréal pour recueillir des fonds pour le projet DOvEEgene. Pierre-Marc Legris parle des initiatives environnementales au CUSM et des projets en cours pour rendre le site Glen encore plus durable. Le Dr Irah King partage les résultats préliminaires d’une étude prometteuse sur le microbiome et la douleur chronique. Et la Dre Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze présente son court métrage mettant en vedette des patients ayant reçu une greffe du rein. 

Transcript

Tarah Schwartz: 0:00

Hello there. Thank you for joining us. I'm Tarah Schwartz and this is Health Matters on CJAD 800. On today's show, one of the new frontiers in research in infection and immunity is the microbiome. It is an important part of the human body and can influence and impact how we treat health conditions. We'll speak with a researcher who is working and hoping to better understand the microbiome. And later in the show how the MUHC is working on becoming even more environmentally-friendly. But first, this past Wednesday, the Lyceum of Greek Women of Montreal held a Greek fashion show. I had the privilege of attending this incredible event, featuring renowned Greek fashion designers all in support of the MUHC's Dr. Lucy Gilbert and the DOvEE Project. DOvEE is a test that can detect ovarian and endometrial cancers in stage one, while it's still curable, the Lyceum is helping the MUHC Foundation fundraise to make this test, a standard part of women's care. It was an incredible sold-out event. Aphrodite Salas -you'll remember her- she's with the Lyceum of Greek Women of Montreal. She walked the catwalk, beautifully I might add, as part of the fashion show. Aphrodite, thank you so much for joining us today.

Aphrodite Salas: 1:16

Thank you, Tarah, it's so great to be here.

Tarah Schwartz: 1:19

It was such a fun event. It was a fun event to watch. So what was it like to actually be a part of it?

Aphrodite Salas: 1:25

Oh, my goodness. So it was a little overwhelming. Just in terms of 500 people in the audience. And just that scale of it. So our fearless leader Justine Frangouli is the head of the Lyceum of Greek Women of Montreal and worked with a core group of volunteers to put this show together. And I mean, it's really amazing because Justine's been spearheading efforts for years now in support of the DOvEEgene research. This was the latest effort, and it was a huge effort. So more than 500 tickets sold at the Palace Convention Center in Laval -amazing. And so there was the professional part of the catwalk. Obviously, I'm not a professional model. I was there in my capacity in support, and walked as well. But yeah, it was a lot of fun and great energy in the room for sure.

Tarah Schwartz: 2:36

Do you know why the Lyceum of Greek Women has been so behind Dr. Gilbert for the last several years in terms of raising money during their events?

Aphrodite Salas: 2:46

The test that Dr. Gilbert is developing is extraordinary. As you mentioned in the intro, it's the only test in the world that would detect ovarian or endometrial cancers. But what she's also working on, is identifying genetic mutations. So looking at a woman's genes, and looking to see if somebody might be in a danger zone. The kind of the easiest way to explain that, I guess is it's the same thing that Angelina Jolie did with the BRCA gene. She found out that she had these genetic predispositions to these particular cancers, and then was able to do proactive treatment. She chose the mastectomy, I think, and full hysterectomy. The DOvEEgene not only would it identify pre-cancer, but it would also identify these genetic mutations and allow women to have a choice. So this is extraordinary, because if you can imagine what that means for even our health care system. Above and beyond saving lives, which is obviously the most important thing, think of the ripple down effect, right? So if you're saving one life, or if you're giving one woman the knowledge that whatever she needs to do. Let's say somebody gets the knowledge that they have these genetic mutations and can preventatively have a hysterectomy, then that person won't clog the system later or suffer horrible deaths. It's amazing; it's amazing research that Dr. Gilbert is doing and the Lyceum, Justine Frangouli, our fearless leader I mentioned earlier. I know her sister had died of ovarian cancer. That's one reason why she holds the research dear to her heart. But also because this research, this test, this science is life-changing and cutting-edge and can really change the future for women's health care. It's extraordinary what Dr. Gilbert is doing.

Tarah Schwartz: 5:01

We're speaking with Aphrodite Salas and we're talking about a fundraising event put on by the Lyceum of Greek Women this past week for the DOvEE Project. And now Aphrodite, you're one of five, as you mentioned non-models, but you were all also beautiful that got up and walk the catwalk. And each of you sort of was impacted by either cancer, or treated by Dr. Gilbert, or Dr. Gilbert found something that enabled you, as you mentioned, to make a choice about how you wanted to be treated. We discussed this before we came on air to see like if you wanted to share that story, because you actually have a really personal story with Dr. Gilbert, and you said that you would be open to talking about it.

Aphrodite Salas: 5:36

It's really interesting, because what happened with me is I hosted a fundraiser a couple of years ago, just because Justine asked me to. And during the fundraiser, she was like, Okay, now everybody's going to sign up for the clinical trial. And I was like, Okay, I'll sign up. So I just signed up for it and I didn't think much of it and forgot about it. But then Dr. Gilbert called and said, you gave me this information about the gene part of the test, right, like the genetic information, the genetic mutations. She felt that I was in this danger zone because of this genetic information that she found through the clinical trial. And, I had a few choices, she was like, you can do nothing. You can get tested, every couple of months- come into the hospital. Or we can do preventative hysterectomy. That was a tough conversation, kind of thinking of everything. It's not a little thing, it's a major surgery. And so I chose to do the surgery, armed with the information from that clinical trial. And that's the kind of choice that I'm so grateful that I was able to make. Because if I didn't know, who knows what would happen a few years down the road. And she gave me the gift of being able to make that choice to protect my future and my health, which I wouldn't have had if I wasn't part of a clinical trial.

Tarah Schwartz: 7:09

Exactly. Like she saves women's lives. There's no other way to say it, she saves women's lives. And I think it's so extraordinary. And I think it's interesting, because the problem with these cancers, is that they get detected too late. So late that it's too late. And what she is able to say to you is we're giving you the choice to not even get these cancers, because it looks like you would be a perfect candidate for this.

Aphrodite Salas: 7:35

100%. And so the way she explained it to me was; she said- imagine you have a palmful of icing sugar and imagine you sneeze and it gets everywhere. So that's what it's like. And then once it's everywhere, you can't do anything about it. It's over. She said when you can find it on a microscope; it's over. So who wants to have that?

Tarah Schwartz: 8:11

And I think the other wonderful part is you've got two daughters. So you know that this clinical trial that is a few years away from being in doctor's offices everywhere and being accessible everywhere, to everyone. You see that the future is changing for your children, because they will have that test available to them just like going to a doctor's office and having a Pap test. Every woman understands that.

Aphrodite Salas: 8:31

It's so critical for everybody to have access to this test. That's the turning point. And I really hope it happens soon. In terms of the timeframe, you just said a couple of years. Not only in Quebec doctors' offices, but across Canada and around the world, like it should be a standard of care.

Tarah Schwartz: 8:54

I don't have a lot of time left, Aphrodite, only a minute. But I want to get this in. Because what people don't often realize is this kind of research that Dr. Gilbert is doing is incredibly expensive. Millions of dollars, because there's clinical trials that it's got to be data-collection and then it's got to go to Health Canada. So what the Lyceum of Greek women is doing is helping the MUHC Foundation fundraise by contributing what they raise in their events. I want you to talk to the need of philanthropy and things like this so people can really understand how their small donation makes such a big difference.

Aphrodite Salas: 9:24

Absolutely. Even with the Lyceum Wednesday night, it was a fashion show run by volunteers, everything was donated. The final numbers haven't come in yet. But when we were talking right before the show, the organizers were saying in the neighborhood of $30,000. So that's amazing. That's just from people buying a ticket to go see a fashion show. Enough people do that and make that every little bit counts because there's a critical mass. So it's for everybody to pull together and support this kind of research because we're so close that's the other thing.

Tarah Schwartz: 10:05

We're so close. That's a perfect note to end on Aphrodite. It is always a great pleasure to talk to you. You're just a dear friend. I'm so proud of you. I'm so happy for you. And thank you so much for coming on the show.

Aphrodite Salas: 10:16

Thank you, Tarah.

Tarah Schwartz: 10:17

Coming up next on Health Matters making the MUHC as eco-friendly as possible. I'm Tarah Schwartz. Welcome back to Health Matters on CJAD 800. We are living in a climate crisis and its effects are being felt around the world. Here in Montreal, the MUHC believes that everyone must do their part to limit the effects of climate change. And that includes hospitals. That's why a plan is in the works to reduce the environmental footprint of the hospital. And that comes in some very interesting ways. Pierre-Marc Legris is the Director of Technical Services of the MUHC and he joins me now to discuss the environmental initiatives that are being put in place. Thank you so much for being with us.

Pierre-Marc Legris: 11:00

Hi, it's a pleasure being with you today.

Tarah Schwartz: 11:04

So what is your job entail when we say Director of Technical Services of the MUHC?

Pierre-Marc Legris: 11:11

I oversee all the activities regarding infrastructure projects, infrastructure maintenance, facility management, real-estate management, I also am in charge of biomedical engineering. And one of our important files now is sustainability. So we are putting a lot of efforts to create a sustainability team to undertake many initiatives. But so in a nutshell, this is what I what I do at the MUHC.

Tarah Schwartz: 11:52

And what is it like to manage a site as big as the MUHC? I'm sure it has a lot of unique challenges.

Pierre-Marc Legris: 12:00

Yes, yes, yes, we have many challenges. Our work at technical services is very diversified. And since we have newer sites like the Glen site, but we also have older sites. It's pretty challenging to maintain and to make sure that the infrastructure are in good shape, and we're able to provide the best environment for patient and staff. So it's very challenging, but at the same time, we're able to really see a difference when we do our jobs, so it's, it's motivating also to be part of the MUHC and having such an important responsibility.

Tarah Schwartz: 12:49

You mentioned that there are a lot of sustainable initiatives that you're putting in place, which I'm sure coincides with environmental initiatives. Tell us a little bit about the reasoning behind sustainability and environmental initiatives that you're working on?

Pierre-Marc Legris: 13:06

Like I said earlier, we were really trying to make a lot of green initiatives happen. We are well aware that the health care industry, globally, is responsible for around 5% of global emissions. So the health care industry has a role to play in helping reduce the carbon emission. So at the MUHC part of the planification strategique or the strategic plan for the next few years, we've identified sustainability as a priority and a value that we want to make very important at the MUHC. So in the last few years, we've put in place a sustainable development committee. We implemented at the MUHC sustainability policy and procedures and we've been investing a lot in recycling initiatives. So we were recycling before but now we're really trying to optimize the recycling activities. We invested in the recycling centers on many of our sites. We are working with the folks at the service alimentaires so the people at the MUHC working in the kitchens to implement some composting initiatives. We will also be working very hard towards reducing the energy consumption of our buildings. We are very lucky at the Glen site. The building was built in 2014 and has a LEED Gold certification so it is already a very efficient building. But we still are looking for ways to improve the footprint of energy consumption. For example, we're looking at ways to reduce the natural gas use for heating. So we're leaning towards programs with Hydro-Quebec to use hydro-electricity more than the natural gas. So we're really trying to figure out how we could you know, make a difference with these initiatives.

Tarah Schwartz: 15:31

Interesting. Those are a lot of really interesting initiatives. We're speaking with the Director of Technical Services at the McGill University Health Centre, Pierre-Marc Legris. We're talking about how the hospital can reduce its environmental footprint. I love that you're talking about recycling, composting, natural gas. But one of the projects that I read about that I thought is particularly interesting, and I'd love you to address that is the issue. I'm sure most people don't realize this of anesthetic gas. So when you consider how many surgeries are done at the MUHC, everyone who has surgery is put under by anesthetic. Tell us a little bit about how sort of that is a negative on the environment and what you're putting in place to try to correct that.

Pierre-Marc Legris: 16:11

Thank you for bringing this up. It actually is a concern, and it is something that we think we can

Tarah Schwartz: 16:17

And I know that like any initiative, these kinds make change quite easily. So the use of anesthetic gas is responsible for... we don't actually have a precise number of carbon emission related to anesthetic gas. But some studies demonstrate that almost 1% of a hospital's impact on climate and carbon emissions comes from the anesthetic gas. So it is something that we are aware of, and we're trying to implement some initiatives. Some gases are more potent than others. For the most part, the MUHC uses sevoflurane with a few exceptions of some doctors still using desflurane, which is significantly more polluting than sevoflurane. So I'm not going to get into too much technical details. But we're looking at implementing a solution to recuperate these gases, and not let them go out in the atmosphere. So I just might say that only 5% of anesthetic gas is metabolized by the patient while the rest is vented up into the environment of changes and environmental initiatives do cost money. How and atmosphere. So we want to work on a system to recuperate all these gases without releasing them. And we could even have them reused in the hospital. So there's a double game there. So this is really something that we're trying to implement in the next few months. does philanthropy play a role in initiatives like anesthetic gas conservation and reusability at the MUHC?

Pierre-Marc Legris: 18:22

I think philanthropy is an important part of making these initiatives happen, because of course, the budgets are always limited for these initiatives. So it's really important to have some alternate sources of funding. So it is very important to and very appreciated to have these fundings that come from the foundation or from philanthropy. So really, it's going to allow us to implement initiatives faster, and position ourselves as leaders in in sustainable development in the health care sector.

Tarah Schwartz: 19:05

Just one final question. I don't have a lot of time left. But in terms of timeline, like you mentioned changes with composting, recycling, anesthetic gases, lots of projects. Are they already in the works or is this something that's going to be rolling out over the next year, five years, 10 years.

Pierre-Marc Legris: 19:20

We're actually in the process of making a five-year plan, but some of these initiatives are ongoing right now, like the recycling are projects that are occurring right now. Composting has started with a pilot project right now. For the anesthetic gas, we're looking at implementing this technology in maybe three to six months. So really, we're trying to build something for now but also to have a plan to implement initiatives as we move forward.

Tarah Schwartz: 19:50

Pierre-Marc Legris is Director of Technical Services at the McGill University Health Centre. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate your time today.

Pierre-Marc Legris: 19:57

It was a pleasure. Have a nice day.

Tarah Schwartz: 20:00

You too. Next up on Health Matters understanding that microbiome is one of the next big frontiers in research and it is being led right here in Montreal. I'm Tarah Schwartz and this is Health Matters. The McGill Interdisciplinary Initiative in Infection and Immunity, also known as MI4 has just celebrated its fifth year anniversary. One of the big priorities moving forward will be research into the microbiome. It is a fascinating field with a lot of room to better understand how it can impact and influence our health. Dr. Irah King is the Associate Professor of Microbiology and Immunology and the Canada Research Chair in barrier immunity, His research focuses on the microbiome, thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Irah King: 20:48

Great to be with you again, Tarah.

Tarah Schwartz: 20:50

All right. Now, Dr. King, we have spoken about it before on the show. But for those who don't know, or may not remember, because it is sort of a complicated field. How do you describe the microbiome?

Dr. Irah King: 21:00

As simply as I can put it, the microbiome is a collection of micro-organisms, whether it be bacteria, viruses, fungi, even some parasites that live on or in us.

Tarah Schwartz: 21:21

And you have mentioned in previous talks that we've had, that we're talking about in the trillions. Is that we've said?

Dr. Irah King: 21:29

Yeah, in the trillions. In fact, there are more, we are more microbial than we are human. So there are more microbial cells that influence our function than actual human cells.

Tarah Schwartz: 21:42

Wow, that's it's hard to wrap your brain around, that one. I've never heard you say that one before. That's hard to wrap the brain around.

Dr. Irah King: 21:51

It sure is. And I think that because we can't necessarily see them or feel them. It's difficult to appreciate. But I think that it's quite now becoming very clear that in so many different diseases, and also in healthy states, that the microbiome is absolutely central to how we function as humans, and even in between people. Our microbiomes are very similar to who we live with. More than how genetically related we are to people.

Tarah Schwartz: 22:29

And where is most of the microbiome in our bodies? Is it mostly in one place? Or is it all over our

Dr. Irah King: 22:36

It is all over our bodies. But particularly on bodies? our skin, in our mouth, in our nose. But the most densely concentrated and abundant population of our microbiome is in our intestine; particularly our lower intestine. So this is really an area of intense investigation simply because that's where most of our microbiome resides.

Tarah Schwartz: 23:06

Now, you're working on a study that I've heard you mentioned a couple of times, and it never ceases to amaze me, every time I hear about it. It's about the microbiome and chronic pain. So tell us, I know you're still in sort of early stages of this research. But tell us the story of this research and how impactful it's been so far.

Dr. Irah King: 23:24

This is this is just one of the projects that we have ongoing at the McGill Centre for Microbiome Research. But it really started through collaboration with incredible people at the world-class Pain Research Centre at McGill. And in fact, now it's expanded to work being done at the Jewish General Hospital, the MUHC, McGill, and even through an international collaboration in Israel. And basically what these investigators at our centre asked was- look, chronic pain is a very, very common problem. And a particular devastating disease for that affects women more than men is a chronic pain syndrome called fibromyalgia. These individuals are very sensitive to pain. And because it's so common, but yet unexplained, it's been somewhat stigmatized in society. Like it's all a figment of people's imagination. So the group at the Pain Centre here started to work with us at our Microbiome Centre to say- is there a biological reason for people that experience fibromyalgia or chronic pain? And they postulated that it could be the microbiome, because the microbiome shapes so much of our health, that maybe it plays a role. And so they started to do some experiments to investigate whether this could be the case. And we've done some many experiments investigating this, both in animals and humans. But I can tell you that right now, there's pretty compelling data that is soon to be published that demonstrate that the microbiome is a central player in pain sensitivity. We've demonstrated in animal models of pain. And we're only beginning. But it's very exciting data, that we are starting to treat patients with healthy microbiome and this is reducing the pain of these individuals.

Tarah Schwartz: 25:34

I want to make that super clear, because I find that so interesting. So you're putting the microbiome of, for all intents and purposes, healthy individuals inside are giving this pill to patients that have fibromyalgia. What happens sort of take us through that? Because that's so interesting.

Dr. Irah King: 25:52

This is what we call fecal transplantation. So it's FMT or fecal microbiota transplantation. And this actually started this whole idea started with bacterial infections in the intestine. People that had went on antibiotics, and developed a severe bacterial infection from an antibiotic resistant bug called C. difficile or C. diff infection, and some people may be more familiar with. And they were finding that if they essentially encapsulate fecal samples from a healthy individual, and give that as a drug to these patients with C. difficile infections, that they are able to essentially cure that C. diff. infection. By reasons that are still not entirely clear. And then they started to say, Okay, if it's FMT, works for C. diff. maybe it works for other inflammatory diseases. And so now it's being tried in lots of different autoimmune diseases, infections, etc. The natural or maybe it was a bit unorthodox; but it was quite out of the box idea was that maybe the microbiome... maybe we can use this FMT to treat patients with chronic pain. Again, this is a collaborative effort between a group in Israel and here at McGill. And it was starting to treat patients, only a handful of patients using FMT. So basically taking stool of healthy people and administering it in a pill form to patients with fibromyalgia. And like I said, it's only the beginning of this; we've done in a small number of people. But the results are just incredible. I mean, we have seen, up to a 50% decrease in the pain sensitivity of these people. That seems to even be lasting months at a time the effects. So this is incredibly encouraging. And so right now what we want to do is ask two main questions. Number one- how does this work? We need to have much more precise studies. We need to perform much more precise studies to know exactly what is in the fecal samples from healthy people that make the pain go away. And the second question is- how long are these effects last? And so we need basic studies, fundamental research being performed, we also need more broad clinical studies to really address these two key points. So we can really move forward and help a greater number of patients.

Tarah Schwartz: 28:49

It must be very exciting to see these initial results because the impact could be, as you said, enormous on multiple different health care problems.

Dr. Irah King: 29:00

At our centre, we're looking to solve some really difficult medical questions and really transform how we think about patient care, and how we treat disease. And this is one of just a number of projects where we think that we can start to really target the microbiome to either mitigate disease or even in a preventative approach to hopefully decrease the incidence of these diseases; from cardiovascular disease to inflammatory bowel disease to even some neurological diseases, which is just so exciting. So, I think that this is just the beginning. And we have this incredible, critical mass of world-class scientists here at our centre that I think could really put us in a position to change the face of medicine.

Tarah Schwartz: 29:59

Incredible, Dr. Irah King, always really exciting to speak with you and hearing about your research. Thank you so much for joining us on the show.

Dr. Irah King: 30:06

My pleasure, Tarah, thanks so much for having me.

Tarah Schwartz: 30:10

Thank you. Next up on Health Matters, establishing a community of patients after life-altering surgery. I'm Tarah Schwartz, you're listening to Health Matters. There are many health care workers, surgeons and researchers who are working diligently to ensure that life-altering operations like kidney transplants go smoothly. In fact, one researcher also wants people to understand the challenges of such a surgery by making a short film about it. Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze is a clinician scientist and a transplant nephrologist at the MUHC. She specializes in kidney transplant research, and she joins us now. Thank you so much for being with us.

Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze: 30:49

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Tarah Schwartz: 30:53

Let's start with what inspired you to pursue this kind of medical research, Dr. Sapir-Pichhadze.

Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze: 30:59

Thank you so much for this question. I can share with you that as a transplant nephrologist, I've become acutely aware of health-related challenges that my patients face on a day-to-day basis in the context of kidney disease when awaiting transplantation and following transplant. Through my clinical work, I tried to address some of these concerns with individual patients. But I decided to complement my clinical work with research to ensure that I contribute to the generation of knowledge that would help me try and improve or further optimize the care provided to both the patients in my practice, as well as beyond my practice- patients facing these health concerns at large.

Tarah Schwartz: 31:52

What does a nephrologist do? I mean, we come across so many different titles in the show, but I can't seem to remember nephrologist. Can you explain what a nephrologist is and does?

Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze: 32:03

Absolutely So nephrologist specializes in kidney related health concerns. So when the kidney stops working and the kidney is in charged with getting rid of a variety of toxins that would accumulate in the body. Again when the kidneys fail, or access fluids, for example, so patients with kidney disease might experience swelling throughout the body and consequently difficulty breathing and so on and so forth as an example. A nephrologist supports patients through medical treatment and/or what we call renal replacement therapy. So in the context of kidney disease, a renal replacement therapy would involve dialysis. So dialysis can be done in a couple of ways. One, where blood is being accessed and cleaned by a machine removing these excess toxins or excess fluids. That's called hemodialysis, some patients undergo peritoneal dialysis so fluid is instilled in the abdomen and the blood is cleaned this way through the abdomen. Similarly, excess fluids and toxins are being removed this way. Or alternatively, what is considered to be the best renal replacement therapy is called transplantation. So where a generous donor, either a donor who passed away or a living donor, donates one of their kidneys to a patient whose kidneys have failed. And through this generous action, a patient may benefit from kidney function subsequent to their own kidneys having failed.

Tarah Schwartz: 34:02

Do you enjoy working with kidney transplantation or in transplant in general? I guess I would say.

Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze: 34:08

So I would consider it a privilege to contribute to the care of patients as complex as patients with kidney disease. Those who are awaiting transplantation and post-transplant. I mentioned that our patient population have a variety of health concerns that come together with their kidney disease. So the management is challenging, and at times consequently also involves various difficulties that the patients face. But this being said, there's much effort and much interest in supporting patients through these difficulties. And again through clinical work, dedicated teams who are there to support the patients through their struggles, and research that tries to not only handle or manage health concerns that patients face but also trying to prevent some of these concerns from occurring. Again, I feel very fortunate to be able to contribute to the care of these patients.

Tarah Schwartz: 35:27

We're speaking with Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze and we're talking about kidney transplants, that's her specialty. But you made a short film, which I find super interesting about the patient's experience with kidney transplants. Tell us a little bit about why you wanted to make that film.

Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze: 35:45

Thank you for this question. I'm very thankful for the patients. I call them the heroines in the short film we produced for sharing their transplant journey. Ms. Mary, Beaucage and Ms. Teresa Atkinson share their stories, both awaiting transplantation and the challenges of being matched with compatible donors; as well as the struggles that they face subsequent to transplantation. One of our patients experienced multiple events of transplant rejection. With regards to your questions about why communicate through a film, through this kind of medium. I really believe that patient stories are most impactful in sharing the patient's experiences and the challenges that they're faced. But also highlighting the hope that they feel and thanks and appreciation that they want to share with regards to generous donors, allowing them another chance at life so to speak, allowing them to through transplantation; experience and contribute participate in day-to-day living much more than would be possible as they depend on dialysis, for example.

Tarah Schwartz: 37:35

And if people wanted to see this video, is there a place where they could they could take a look?

Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze: 37:40

Absolutely. The video was acknowledged at an international level through the International Society of Nephrology and was a finalist in competition through the ISN. So, it can be found on the twitter handles of the MUHC. As well as, as I mentioned through the website of the International Society of Nephrology. The film is called Kidney transplant research provides hope for transplant patients.

Tarah Schwartz: 38:25

That sounds like an absolutely beautiful title. I want to thank you for your time and for the work you do. It really is very, very important and I'm glad that you're sharing it with us. Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze, thanks for being on Health Matters.

Dr. Ruth Sapir-Pichhadze: 38:37

Thank you so very much.

Tarah Schwartz: 38:40

Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Tarah Schwartz. What would you like to hear about on the show? Write to me at healthmatters at MUHCFoundation.com. You can also follow the MUHC Foundation on social media or sign up for our newsletter at MUHCFoundation.com. I hope you'll join me again next Sunday. Thank you so much for listening to Health Matters and stay healthy