The Sailor Jerry Podcast
Inspired by Norman 'Sailor Jerry' Collins' Old Ironsides radio show on KTRG, we present THE SAILOR JERRY PODCAST! This is a wild homage to all our favorite things – Music, tattoos, travel, spiced rum, and more. Partnering up with our pal Matt Caughthran, the frontman of The Bronx, we're spilling these tales in our own damn style. Brace yourself for biweekly episodes, dishing out killer interviews with musicians who fuel our fire. Buckle up for The Sailor Jerry Podcast – where the coolest stories come to life.
The Sailor Jerry Podcast
76 - Jack Kays
Jack Kays is a singer and songwriter from Cincinnati, Ohio. In this episode, we dive into a whole bunch of cool stuff, starting with Jack's newest album, Deadbeat Disc 1. We also explore Jack's lifelong desire to create music, his evolution as an artist, life on a major label, and the upcoming Deadbeat Discs 2 and 3. Additionally, we discuss his culinary passion, Anthony Bourdain vs. Guy Fieri, tattoo culture, Drake vs. Kendrick, punk rock influences, Van Halen, My Chemical Romance, Nirvana Unplugged, and so much more! As always, brought to you by Sailor Jerry!
https://www.instagram.com/jackkays/
https://sailorjerry.com
yo yo yo check one, check two. Jack k's, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yo hey hey, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yo hey, hey, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yo hey, hey hey, check one, check two, check one, check two. Yo yo, yo, yo yo, what up, man, how are you? I'm good, how are you, I'm good, I'm good. Can you hear me all right?
Speaker 3:yeah, I'm getting a little bit of delay, but I don't think it's gonna matter in the long run okay, cool, cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can hear you. All right, I'm good.
Speaker 3:I'm good on this end, I think, as long as you're good yeah, like I just see your mouth moving and then your voice like starts afterwards.
Speaker 1:But if that's okay, then that's okay yeah, I mean it should record fine on your end and my end as well. So as long as it doesn't fuck your vibe up, uh, you know we should be all good. All right, cool, yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't mess with me, so let's do it. Awesome man, all right, jack k's here today on the sailor jerry podcast. Uh, very stoked to have you on the podcast, my man. Uh, I'm new to kind of the jack hayes phenomenon. So, as a, as a musician, as an artist, uh, it's always a really cool thing when you discover someone new, uh, who you enjoy and who's doing some cool shit.
Speaker 3:So, uh, thanks for being on the podcast today dude, thanks for having me and thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, deadbeat disc one Okay, officially out, released into the world. You know there's always a lot of emotions that come along with releasing an album into the wild. There's a lot of work that goes into it, obviously A lot of stress leading up to it. How's, how's the vibe for you right now? How's it feel to have a record out? How's everything going?
Speaker 3:um, I'm feeling pretty good. It's like, uh, it's the longest piece of work I've dropped in a long time. Uh, and I think I'm not really quite quite there yet with the relief because we have a disc two and a disc three and disc two is wrapping up and disc three is like still like very much in the works. So I feel like disc one dropped and the work finally started. That's where I'm at.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. And you know, the record is incredible, man, man, it's awesome. So congrats on that great work. Um, you know some things that I've kind of taken in from going through your discography and kind of, you know, newly being introduced into your world is that you seem pretty self-sufficient as an artist and as a songwriter. Um, get into a little bit of your backstory in a bit here, but when it comes to writing an album, creating an album, did you have a producer on this album? Did you produce it yourself? How did all the songs come together?
Speaker 3:Okay, so, I write all the songs sitting where I am right now this is my home studio and then, you know, depending on the song, sometimes I feel like I have the ability to produce it myself. So there's a couple songs like throw away, get a job, deadbeat, were recorded here in my studio, like in the chair that I'm sitting on. And then, you know, sometimes I write a song and I think I think this is a little bit out of my realm. I think I need somebody who's a little more experienced to go in and record on this. So, um, yeah, you know that's where another producer comes in, like, uh, matt squire is a producer that I worked with a lot on this record.
Speaker 3:Uh, no, love for the middle child is also on this record. And then um, drew falk, wizard blood, who does like a lot of stuff in the metal scene uh, he's on this record. And then um, drew falk, wizard blood, who does like a lot of stuff in the metal scene uh, he's on this record as well. So, you know, depending on the song, depending on how I'm feeling, I just like decide, kind of where to take it to. Uh, but all the writing happens here in my room that's awesome man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it seems like, uh, like a song by song kind of basis is the way to go, and I think that's a cool approach too, because it's like you have, you know, you have the album as a whole but, um, you know, nowadays especially, you know, there's such an importance on singles so some songs sound great with just the guitar and vocals and, like you're saying, you know when the song needs a little bit something more, you know. Yeah, so that's awesome man.
Speaker 3:I mean it's not necessarily that I know it's like the choice. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Because, like a lot of times, the production of a record just comes down to a choice, like, do you want it to sound more stripped back or do you want to produce it out? So that's kind of what that comes down to, I think comes down to.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, man Dope, and you know you mentioned, you know, disc two and disc three down the line, which I know a lot of people are curious about. Kind of just looking down the line a little bit on that, Is it going to be like like a body of work completely, or are they going to be completely different vibes, or where are you thinking about going next for two and 3?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, ultimately they'll all live under deadbeat. You know what I mean. So I don't know if you've ever seen an album on Spotify or Apple Music that has disc breaks on it. You know what I mean. Like one of the one of the weird like references that I have is like this ray schremer album where like one half is um is sway lee, and one in the other half is what's the other guy's name? Like slim jimmy or some shit like that? Um, yeah I forget.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like they're two halves of the album. You know what I mean. And that's a disc, one disc, two album. Um, so that's how it'll be all like at the at the end of it all. You know what I all. However long down the road that is hopefully not too long.
Speaker 1:That's how it's going to look but you seem like, uh, kind of a prolific writer as well. Are you someone who you know is constantly writing, constantly like in the studio every day, or maybe not every day, but just a very active like creative flow, or do you kind of go in spurts?
Speaker 3:um, you know, the past couple of months, I think, production like when I'm producing stuff like disc two, I have a lot of, I have a lot of production on like um I think, like half the songs are produced by me on disc two or something like that.
Speaker 3:So on that, you know front I'm in the studio every single day kind of tweaking stuff and adding things here and, like you know, my drummer will send me things and my little brother plays bass on all the tracks and he'll send me stuff and I'll you know, see how it fits Like oh, add a harmony here. You know like just kind of fucking with production and stuff. Sorry, can I?
Speaker 2:curse on here Is that okay. Oh yeah, okay, let it fly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just kind of messing with stuff and like and you know, working out kinks and trying to see if I can add anything to the record. That's different. But as far as writing goes, I would say, like you know, in a good period where I'm like really feeling it, like I'm really feeling good, I'm probably writing like two songs every couple of months, like I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't write that often and normally when I write something, it's I don't. I'm not like the kind of guy that, like, takes a hundred shots and only you know puts one of them out, like basically every song that I write ends up coming out yeah, okay, cool, cool, that's dope, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:That's good to know, because it's like it's. You know, sometimes it's either one or the other. I feel like there's because some of your stuff, honestly, it feels like so, uh, you know, cathartic and like, uh, just like, lyrically speaking too, a lot of it just feels like just something you just have to like spit out so you never know, as as a fan, like how that's coming out, if it's, if it's like, you know, a labor process where it takes a while to get it just right, um, or if it's just something like you're saying, like you're just you know, okay, boom, that one's out of my system. On to the next one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I will say like I've been writing songs for 10 plus years now, um, and it took me like six years to get one good song you know what I'm saying, and so that early six years was writing a lot of songs. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It was like getting in the studio every single night and trying to write something like no matter what, because I was just trying to like figure out who I was. But now that I'm kind of there and I like kind of know who I am and what I want to sound like as an artist, like um man, it's like it's pretty infrequently that I write a song and it's actually that's kind of scary, because sometimes I write a song and I'm like I don't know when the next one is going to happen.
Speaker 3:If it's gonna happen like it's this weird like every time I write a song I feel like it's my last, but that's never been the case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a trip and I know you know, as you progress and you put out more albums and more songs, songs and kind of. You know, life happens, you, you know you move this way, you move that way, it's always kind of, uh, it is scary to think, like you know, like fuck, like you know, I know I'm not out of music, but what if I am? You know like what, where's the next? So where's the next song gonna come from?
Speaker 3:uh, what's it gonna sound like, or what?
Speaker 1:chord progression.
Speaker 2:Is it gonna sound like, is it? I get all existential about it.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean yeah, awesome man, on, uh, on. You know mixed emotions, that ep, uh, you know you kind of dabbled in a lot of the hip-hop production that I know you know you're very comfortable with disc two, disc three. We're gonna see a little bit of that come back into the mix.
Speaker 3:Honestly, no man like um, that first six years that I'm, that I was telling you about.
Speaker 1:I was like that's it that I was only making hip-hop music.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. And those are like that. Those four songs or whatever that kind of like lean in that direction, are the only like in my opinion, like those are the only passable records that came out of that period of my life. Um, and I've always been the type, like I don't want to, like lie to people and like act like I'm not something or like act like I'm something that I'm not like. I want people to be able to look at my discography and see the progression and see where I came from and see what I used to talk about, what I used to sound like, versus what I talk about, what I sound like now. Um, so the purpose of mixed emotions was to kind of show like you know, how did I get from from track one to morbid mind, which was at the end of the project yeah, man, that's.
Speaker 1:That's really cool and I dig that. Um, you know, the evolution that you've kind of gone through as a songwriter is always an exciting process as an artist and as a fan to like listen to and like dive into. So it's cool that you aren't hiding that.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean it's like, hey, this is, this is where I was at, this is where I'm. I'm at now. It seems like I want to rap about songwriting real quick, because you have a lot of authenticity in your songwriting, a lot of emotion and a lot of melody, and those are the things that, obviously some of the major components to me as to what makes a great song. When you're kind of sitting down to write a song, or when you hear a song that you love, what is it? What makes a good song to you?
Speaker 3:Oh man, to me this is going to be a weird take. Okay, to me, the most important part of songwriting is phonetics. Do you know what I mean? How do the words sound next? To each other. Sometimes I hear a song and somebody is saying something that means a lot and it hits hard, but the phonetics are too clunky and it just doesn't come across good. You know what I mean. So, like when I'm writing a song, like if the phonetics aren't coming, like the song's not going to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so phrasing is a big deal to you, because I mean you can tell, not phrasing though, like the way that the words sound coming out of your mouth. You know what I mean got you, got, you, got, you got, you know like, is it easy? Is it easy to say them is?
Speaker 3:it something that you want to say over and over again, like I don't want tongue twisters and I don't want syllables that like happen in my in the front of my mouth to be right next to syllables that happen in the back of my mouth. I don't know if that makes this is like a weird this, like that's really fucking scientific. You know what I'm saying, like, but that's like something I think about when I saw that stems from?
Speaker 1:yeah, do you think that stems from like, like hip-hop style phrasing and phonetics, or like poetry, or like how, like, how, cause that's not really necessarily like? Uh, I mean, it is, you know, a music thing. It is, it can be a rock and roll thing, it can be a punk rock thing. But when I hear you, I do hear exactly what you're talking about, you know, I hear, I hear the focus and the attention to detail on that. Where, where did you kind of pick that up? Where does that come from?
Speaker 3:I think it's something that comes from like a hip hop background. You know what I mean. Like I learned how to write songs by rapping and when you're like, when you're going fast and you're rapping, like you don't there's not enough room to like to stumble over clunky syllables and stuff like that. And it's not something necessarily that I do purposefully Like. It's not like I go into a line being like all right, this has to sound phonetically good. But you know, if I write a line and it's not quite good, the first thing that I look at isn't you know, the actual like the meaning of the line. I always look at like what can I change phonetically about this?
Speaker 1:damn dude, that's rad. I like that. That's not something that, uh, that you hear a lot, um, you know, usually it's like you know some, you know chord progression or you know, uh, you know melody or lyrics or something like that, and all those things are important to you, obviously. But I like how detailed and specific your answer is on that question yeah, I mean like lyrics.
Speaker 3:The meaning of the lyrics is important. You know what I mean. But, like, when I go into a song, I'm not always thinking about what it's about. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, the, the substance is already there. Like, as long as I talk about my experience, you know, I know that I'll end up writing something that resonates and is important to me, like I never be. I'm never like, oh, I want to write a song about space and then, like, the song comes out shit, because I'm talking about something that doesn't matter to me or that I don't know about I'm only ever writing about my experience.
Speaker 1:I do think I'm only ever writing about, like my personal experience.
Speaker 3:So, like you know, it's never like um, never been a thing where I'm like oh man, like I like this song, I like everything about it, but what I'm talking about isn't, isn't good, like I've never felt that way yeah, do you ever?
Speaker 1:uh, you know, personally speaking from my experience as a songwriter, I'm very much as a lyricist, in the same vein as you, where it's mostly 99.99% about personal experience, because I feel like I have to have some sort of attachment to the lyrics and to the song itself, um, to for me as an artist, and also I feel like that translates when people hear it, that they know you're connected to it as well for sure do you ever worry?
Speaker 1:do you ever worry about like um, you know like, only like, only being that type of artist you know what I mean like, do you ever worry about that? You might be relying too much on um. You know having to to write about your own experiences and sometimes artists can go down tricky roads with that, because it can be crazy. Sometimes it can be hard to feel satisfied. Sometimes, if you're writing a song or writing a record, sometimes it feels like you're always kind of reopening yourself up, so it can be kind of an exhausting process. How is that for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I'll talk about like a song off disc two to try to answer this question and forgive me if I'm not answering the question correctly and feel free to correct me on the question.
Speaker 3:So there's a song on my there's a song on disc two about one of my friends that passed away from an overdose, right and for, and it's been you know six or seven years since he passed away. I think it was six and I think it'll be seven in september. Um and uh, and I've like went and tried to write a song about him like probably 20 times you know what I mean and it just wasn't happening. And every single time I would like reopen that can of worms and like be fucked up for the rest of the day, like just like super sad and like don't talk to me. You know what I'm saying, what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I definitely feel like there is like there is a line to toe where, like, you want to write about something, you want it to be fresh, you want it to sound angry and bitter or sad and remorseful or whatever those feelings are. Um, but I think, like trying to write about something when it's not fully processed yet and when, like, you don't fully understand the feelings, just isn't going to work out and you're going to end up putting yourself in more pain than if you would have just not written at all. You know what I'm saying. But, on the other hand, if you like, fully grieve those feelings, if you feel the feeling and you're done and you've like processed that in a healthy way or whatever, and then you go and write the song. That's like when something cathartic happens. Does that answer the question?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I know like I went through kind of the same thing trying to write a song about my dad when he passed. It's like it's one of those things where you want to express it so bad.
Speaker 1:But like you're saying, the time has to be right, all the things have to kind of align for that song to come together, that moment to come together in a way that's real, because I think you want to. You know, you know it's inside somewhere, at some point it's going to come out, uh, and, and you just, uh, you just want it to happen, but you can't really force the process.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but especially with grief, dude, that's such a complex feeling, you know yeah there's so many stages and there's so much death to that emotion. Like I'm somebody that handles death in a really weird way, like I've never cried out of death, you know, friends, family, dogs like I just I just don't cry for, so it doesn't hit me right away for some reason. It's like something that takes years and years to settle in and it takes like life events without that person for me to like fully understand the weight of the loss.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying, so yeah, for sure or like in the in the context of my friend, like I didn't fully understand the weight of the loss until I until I like became really close friends with his brother, like two or three years ago, and like we started talking every day and then I was like holy shit, you know what I'm saying like the weight of it really started to set in um and the idea that that person like that we both have memories with, like you know, he's not here anymore. It's, it's a, really it's a. It's a very, very deep feeling. So to write about something like that you can't just like that's not a raw emotion to write about and my like, in my experience, the way that I write songs, it's not something that I can write about when it's fresh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, absolutely, experience the way that I write songs. It's not something that I can write about when it's fresh. Yeah, man, absolutely. Um, that's awesome. Thanks for sharing that. That's really cool. Um, insight too, just about, like you know, the creative process and about being able to, you know, kind of transform something as complicated as grief and loss into, you know, a song that I, you know, I'm stoked to, to be able to hear and check out one of these days. Man, excited to hear that, of course, I'm excited to have it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sick are you. I know you got some shows coming up here. You got riot fest coming up. Uh, which is going to be sick. Shout out, riot fest, awesome festival. Are you going to be sick? Shout out, riot Fest, awesome festival. Are you going to be doing like kind of heavy touring on this record? Where are you at with touring? Are you like a guy who loves being on the road? Do you like being more in the studio at home? Where are you at with that?
Speaker 3:I'm a homebody, but I love doing shows, so it's weird.
Speaker 1:You know like I don't love being on the road.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:But when I'm home, I do want to be doing shows. So there's a little bit of a trade-off there. We're doing these shows in the fall, just because I thought it was kind of cool to surround Riot Fest and we had this other festival planned but the festival canceled so we ended up having to pull that off. But, um, so we were just like, oh, let's do some like shows in some of these you know sea markets that we hadn't really been to yet. Um, but yeah, when? Um, I'll, I'm I don't know how much I can say I'm doing a lot of touring, but I just haven't announced, okay, I haven't good, good good, all right.
Speaker 1:Good, I like that. I'm doing a lot of touring, but I just haven't announced. Okay, I haven't. Good, good, good, all right. Good, I like that.
Speaker 3:I'm definitely gonna be on tour a lot and, like you know um, I'm gonna cross the motions and and do all that good stuff oh hell yeah have you?
Speaker 1:have you crossed? Have you crossed oceans before?
Speaker 3:I've never been to like, not for a show.
Speaker 1:I've crossed oceans for personal reasons, but never to make birds play music oh, hell yeah, dude, that's exciting congrats man yeah, we got a lot of questions on the internet about people wondering if you're coming to uh, uk, australia, all those places so it's good to know that uh hell yeah, awesome, man, awesome, and are you? Are you when you're playing, uh, when you're headlining, are you doing full band?
Speaker 3:yeah. So, um, we're doing a full band. My little brother plays the bass and then, um, my buddy will's playing. Uh, you know he's gonna be playing guitar as well as me playing guitar. I always play guitar on stage. And then my good friend Brandon is a sound guy out here and he's in a couple bands. Everybody that's in my band is also in, like other bands, but my good friend Brandon, he will also be on the road and he'll be playing drums. So, full band set up four piece.
Speaker 1:Hell, yeah, awesome. And you know, to give our listeners a little bit of background on you, um, you know, I know you've been playing music for a long time, uh, multi, multi-instrumentalist, um kind of you know taking us way back a little bit. Um, how did kind of it all get started for you know, was there any sort of, uh, you know, musical influence in the household or anything like that? Like, how did you kind of first get turned on to music?
Speaker 3:yeah, my dad plays, uh, plays the bass and guitar. Okay, you know he dabbles in the drums too, like he's just kind of he's. He's like really fucking good at the bass, like a really really good bass player, one of the best that I know. Um, he's like a prog rock guy, if that gives you any insight to how good of a bass player he is.
Speaker 1:And, um, does he play it? Does he play up here? Does he play? No, he holds it down low but, like his face, like he has like a.
Speaker 3:He has like a rush band that like plays a bunch of yeah, so he's like super technical perfect all of his friends play, play instruments.
Speaker 3:My uncle, uh, is like a, is a guitar professor and owns a music school and uh teaches kids guitar and he's an incredible guitarist, you know, went to school and studied classical guitar and, um, you know, so I grew up around that they're both in they're both in different bands my whole life and, um, we had instruments laying around the house and so, like, I started uh banging the drum kit when I was three years old.
Speaker 1:Oh dude, that's sick.
Speaker 3:And I think I wasn't good at much, I wasn't an athlete at all, I wasn't good in school, and so as I got older, I think my parents just kind of kept encouraging me to to play music, and my dad would have me at his gigs and help me set up the show, and so I understood, um, you know, inputs and outputs and monitors and like the technical side of music and yeah, what microphones are good for what and like so on. And then you know he would have me on stage and, um, it started off as me just playing guitar in his band sometimes and then me getting on the microphone or drumming or singing and playing guitar, you know, playing during their their set breaks or whatever it was. So, um, I think like having access to something like that, learning how to sing into a microphone on stage really early on, is like something that I'm really grateful for because I think it set me up for what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely man. And at what point did you know kind of the desire to you know, write your own music come along.
Speaker 3:You know, dude, dude, I wanted to write my own songs forever and it just wasn't happening you know, I'm saying like I wanted to so bad.
Speaker 3:Like you know, I remember my dog died when I was like in fifth grade and like I tried to write songs about that and they were just garbage and like like fucking unspeakably garbage. You know what I'm saying. So bad is like disrespectful to my dead dog. How bad those songs were and uh, you know. So I wanted to write my own songs from like a really young age and I love performing and, um, I don't know, it just didn't come to me like until until I was like until I was.
Speaker 3:I remember I was like 17 or something and I was making beats on my laptop and I spilled water on my laptop and my laptop broke and then me and my buddies like got pulled over with a bunch of weed and we got in a fuck ton of trouble. They put my buddy in handcuffs and like it's like scared the shit out of me and this girl that I liked didn't like me back and, uh, my best friend fucking went to like like was like gone all summer and I was just like had the worst summer, um, and I just like hated my life and then, um, I like that was when I wrote my first song.
Speaker 3:I think it was called like Locked Up or something like that, because I just like spent my whole summer in my bedroom making beats you know what I'm saying and I wrote it on a ukulele because it was like the only my laptop wasn't working because I spilled water on it and I didn't have money to fix it. So I was just like strumming a ukulele and that was my first song Pretty garbage, but it was fix it. So I was just like strumming a ukulele and that was my first song pretty garbage, but it was the first time that I wrote something that was passable. Yeah, that had to feel fucking great, man, I thought I was.
Speaker 1:I thought I was in I was like wait till they hear this shit that's awesome, man, and you know, I know, uh, you know, I know you're a punk rocker as well. How did you kind of discover punk? How did that come into the mix? Um, and just you know, around that same time too, around you know, the the worst summer ever, and you just kind of kicking off as a songwriter. What were some bands or some artists around that time that were kind of, you know, having an impact on you?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean. So, like you know, my dad uh took me to concerts when I was young. Um, like when I was in third grade, he took me to a van halen concert. So I was exposed to rock music really, really young you know what I'm saying and I had kind of an open mind when it came to music. And then, you know, like I'm trying to think like the musical path I got, like in seventh and eighth grade I started teaching myself guitar and I got really into folk music, like you know, fleet Foxes and the Head and the Heart stuff like that, bob Dylan too, like just kind of anything that was acoustic, that I could learn to play on the guitar I was, I was messing around with.
Speaker 3:Then, you know, high school came along and everybody at my high school was listening to hip hop, and so to kind of fit in with the popular kids, I started listening to hip hop. I liked how aggressive it was and I liked how how it was like kind of made in protest. I thought that was really cool and I thought that spoke to me. And then, um, you know, I started dealing with some mental health issues and I was in marching band at the time and the marching band at my school was interesting because you know the, the group that I hung around with was like super into a day to remember and motionless and white and attila, um yeah you know kind of like super heavy stuff.
Speaker 3:So I went from like listening to folk music to listening to like heavy metal um you know, just because like that was what the older kids were listening to, and I was like I gotta, I gotta think this shit's hard. You know what I mean? I gotta be, I gotta fit in. So I started listening to all that type of stuff um got really heavy like cannibal corpse and like bands like that like started started breaching my inner matrix.
Speaker 3:and then, yeah, yeah, but like I, I liked the music, I thought it was cool, I thought it was like I think, like heavy metal is like modern day classical music, like those instruments are like the the musicians are so skilled, oh for sure. But I was looking for something to like, to like emote to, and so I found, I found this band, 21 Pilots. And then I found my Chemical.
Speaker 3:Romance. You know I started finding bands like Pierce the Veil and then you know, I was like this is kind of where it's at, like emo music was like my fucking thing.
Speaker 3:I don't think I really found punk music like real punk music. I don't think I really found and understood it until I was like 21. Um, and I was working at this kitchen and there was this dude there named Johnny his name was Johnny and he went by Johnny Terror and he had like fucking, he had a rat tail and face tattoos and he had crust pants and like a leather jacket with studs and everything. And you know, I was like. You know, I was like this guy is the fucking shit. You know what I'm saying. He was so cool and we would drink and smoke after work and stuff like that, and he started putting me on a folk punk music, just like people in the in the Ohio scene because that's a big Ohio thing into like uh, black flag minor threat.
Speaker 3:you know, fugazi like started like finding like some more, like some real punk bands, not like uh, not emo bands but like, um, yeah, you know bad brains, shit like that. And um, yeah, he kind of put me onto that and it also made me realize that, like a lot of dudes that are punk dudes end up being like handlebar mustache salvage denim folk dudes and I was like oh yeah, there's, a crossover in my two favorite genres.
Speaker 3:And so that's kind of where the morbid mind sound came from. I was like I can blend these two genres seamlessly. Yeah, it's funny dude. People turn from like fucking like Coke sniffing, beer drinking delinquents into like fancy coffee dudes with like nice leather boots, like in the blink of an eye. It's such a weird pipeline, oh it's crazy it is.
Speaker 1:It's a very, it's a very weird pipeline but you've seen it right. Like you know, it's there oh bro, I've seen it, I've I've.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've seen it I I can't say I'm like a victim of it because I haven't gone like I'm a sober guy now I don't, I don't use anything and I have, like this insane coffee set up in my kitchen and I'm like I'm, yeah, becoming one of them yeah, it's, hey, it's happening, it's happening right before our eyes I don't know what to do.
Speaker 3:Awesome man, and shout out to uh, to johnny terror dude shout out to johnny terror he's still making music too he's like, he's a real one, that's yeah, that's, uh, that's, that's the vibe right there and uh, you know you, you talked a little bit about the kitchen.
Speaker 1:I know you're a culinary guy. Um, you know, we're at the whole time you're writing music. Were you working in?
Speaker 3:kitchens as well. Yeah, I got my first kitchen job when I was like 15.
Speaker 3:Not kidding, I was bussing tables, saw the line cooks, thought they looked cool and made it a goal of mine to be on the line. And a couple years later I was a line cook. And then I was pretty heavy into drugs and my parents were trying to get me to pick a career because music just wasn't working. And so I went to culinary school, um, and like just kind of thought about it as like, uh, I didn't think about it as a backup. I was like this is what I'm gonna do until music works out. And luckily music did work out. But, um, yeah, so I've. You know, I'm a certified chef. I don't call myself a chef because I haven't worked in a kitchen in five years and I'd probably fucking get fried on the line and just like completely blow it up, but um, yeah, I can't handle that anymore what about, uh?
Speaker 1:who do you think is bourdain? Is bourdain the goat? Who's who's who's the goat?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean bourdain is the same way.
Speaker 3:He was the same way that I was and I actually learned that mentality about not calling my chef from myself a chef from him, because you know he was working in kitchens and owning kitchens and he was a head chef for a while and then he got famous after his book came out and he started being like a traveling food guy with a tv show and people would call him chef and he'd be like don't call me that.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, I'm not a chef anymore and I just like I just loved that mentality you know what I mean like I loved how matter of fact and how blunt he was as a person and I've read his books and stuff and so I'm, you know, I love the guy I have. I have kitchen confidential and it's it's highlighted and notated and all of the food that he talks about is in there and I've made every single recipe that's in the book, like even the one there's not like recipes in the book, but he talks about dishes and stuff and I've always, you know, done my research and tried to recreate them. So I'm a huge fan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, kitchen confidential is. Oh man, it's such an incredible book and I I uh somewhat recently, like a year or two ago, uh, I went back and listened to the audio book and it's, it's his voice, obviously, and it's so fucking good man.
Speaker 3:It's really good dude. He's an incredible writer. You know it's funny. Why do you sit on the? Guy fieri scale the guy fieri scale, kind of similarly to where I sit on, like the salt bay scale, like it's a little too showy for my taste. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like yeah, yeah yeah, I'm like, I'm the type of guy in music and and and in cooking I think these are like these are supposed to be humble jobs and they're mistaken for glamorous jobs, and so I don't really love when people do it very, very like you know, glitzy and showy.
Speaker 1:I don't love it that much yeah, it's like, uh, it's like the equivalent of the. Uh, like the sizzling fajitas like that you bring out to the table and it's just like. You know. I have a buddy of mine who used to order. You say, can I get the fajitas minus the show? You don't need, you don't need to parade it all over the restaurant bucket. You know, do this that, just just bring it out. I think there's a?
Speaker 3:yeah, man, there's an idea, but guy fieri is the one at his restaurant. He has the trash. Can nachos? Have you seen these? It's like I've heard about the trash can nacho yeah, and you like, pull the paint, can the can up and it's all like almost inedible because it's so big and so messy. It's like, dude, give me something I can eat.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying yeah, yeah, have you heard about prison nachos, where they just, uh, they put like a bunch of weird shit in a bag and and it's like it's? I saw, I saw this one guy cooking it, it was. Oh, you're talking about Rick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, when they like, put the ramen noodles in like a bag with crushed up flaming hot Cheetos and yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've heard about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what, where? Where do you sit with Skyline Chili? You're a Cincinnati dude, right.
Speaker 3:I worked at Skyline for like four years, brother, you did what? Yeah, dude, I was in the kitchen making the chili, making the spaghetti, doing the dishes for a while. Hell yeah, for like two years full-time and then two years part-time while I was doing other jobs.
Speaker 1:So is it one of those things where you work there to a point and you're you can't even like think about eating it?
Speaker 3:oh no, every single time I go back to cincinnati I I eat it for breakfast I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude it. Yeah, because I've only been able to have it like twice in my life and I got. I got friends in louisville who are like fuck that they put cinnamon in their chili and fucking you know whatever uh, people who say that don't have a developed palate, that shit's delicious oh yeah, it's so good, dude like cinnamon is so much more than cinnamon toast crunch people write it off, but it's like one of the most powerful seasonings. Shout out skyline. Yeah man, I love me some skyline chili, that's great man.
Speaker 3:I love me some Skyline chili.
Speaker 1:That's great man. Yeah, you know, I used to work in this pizza shop called Frantones and I had two jobs. I was the main dishwasher, which I loved. It was just like a heavy metal video. I'd just be in the back with the radio and just washing dishes forever. And the other one was I was like the official, like sauce boy, like sauce stirrer, and they had this wooden ore and they had this huge vat of, just like you know, marinara sounds a lot like the chili at skyline it's like the same huge vat but we had a metal ore and like me and the homies used to get super fried and sword fright with them and get in trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got fired from Skyline eventually. Yeah, yeah, Well you know, those, those types of those types of jobs are usually just to stop and not a full. Not a full stay, just to stop along the way. For sure.
Speaker 1:For sure, let's talk real quick about, just real quick. I want to touch on Columbia Records. Okay, you know you got signed to a major label. Congratulations, my man. Thank you. That's an incredible thing. You seem, and you know, forgive me if I'm wrong, but from what the little I've seen, it seems kind of like as an artist you kind of just want to be able to focus on the art. You know what, what? What is your kind of take on, you know, the music industry as a whole right now it seems like a pretty cool time to be a young artist doing their thing.
Speaker 3:How's your experience been so far as a signed artist man? I mean, I want to start by saying like I'm incredibly grateful and, you know, I think I think right now is a really great time to be an artist. I think it's a hard time to be an artist, but I think it's a great time to be an artist. I say that because you know, a lot of the promotion lies within you. It's not the. The labels don't have as much power as they used to as far as marketing music and getting people listen to it. So, you know, if you, if you're willing to work hard and you're willing to to go on social media and post a lot and you know, maybe swing and miss miss, but maybe swing and hit every once in a while then like, then, this is the perfect time for you.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of people, yeah, have a had this opinion that, um and I don't I'm not one to say if it's valid or not, but I'll, I'll say my thought on it um, I think a lot of people have the opinion that right now there's a lot of, there's some good stuff and there's a lot of bullshit as far as like music coming out, and you know, to that I say that's how it's always been. You just don't hear the bullshit that was coming out of the 90s. You know what I mean. Like there was definitely really really bad music that came out of, you know, oh yeah, out of the late 19th or late 20th century, 19th century, late 20th century, 19th century, late 20th century. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It just didn't rise to the top and I think we're going to look back on, like you know, the 2020s, you know, maybe 30 years from now. We're going to look back at some of the records that came out at this time and we're going to, you know, we're not going to see all the bullshit TikTok records that came out out. We're gonna see, like, we're gonna see the really good albums that got dropped and, um, you know, I think we'll look back on it and I'll say, wow, that was a lot better than I thought it was, so I'm grateful to be alive and making music during this time.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I think it's fucking cool that's awesome, awesome dude, yeah, and well said. You know, I think it's always kind of. There's always people who you know like when I was, you know, going to high school and shit like that, I was the older generation talking shit on on you know the music that was coming out at that time. I think everyone's going to be critical and everyone's going to say their shit. But it's like there is now and this is one of the cool things I love about doing this podcast is, you know, as you know too, as a musician, it's like sometimes you get so wrapped up in your own shit you don't necessarily have the time to listen to music, like you once did, or you kind of go on back and forth. But I tell you what man I've been like. I've made it a point to be like more focused on listening to what's coming out right now, and there's a lot of fucking great shit coming out, say, oh my God, hip hop was so much better in 2016, 2014,.
Speaker 3:2015 was the golden era. Everything coming out right now is garbage and I'm like you sound like your grandpa. Like your grandpa, you know what I'm saying. Talking like oh, the music these days is trash. You should have heard what they had back in my day. They had Kiss and it's sound like you sound like an old person.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, so you know feel free to have that opinion.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. But, like you know, understand that that's the exact same opinion that, like that you know, older people had and like judged us as kids for, like you know how fucking weird my dad thought my chemical romance was when I started playing that music? Or 21 pilots, you know what I'm saying. Like yeah he was like what the hell is this? I took you to van halen when you were in third grade and you're listening to this like what.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying, so you know if you're gonna say like the music was way better when I was a kid. Just know what you sound like and then move with your day yeah, there you go, nice.
Speaker 1:Uh, all right, man, this is the uh say the jerry podcast here. Uh, norman collins, of course, one of the godfathers of traditional tattooing you. Uh, you know you're a tattoo guy, I know know you tattoo yourself, yeah.
Speaker 3:Traditional tattooers might not like that, but I do do it.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's awesome. Man, what was your first tattoo?
Speaker 3:My first tattoo was like this was my first real tattoo at a shop like this compass, which I don't love anymore, but I would never get it removed or covered up because it's like a part of me. You know what I mean. Yeah, um, it's like pointing to a star in the north, like it's the north star. You know what I mean. It's something to guide you. But, like my first actual tat, my very first tattoos, um, me and my and my wife when we were like 16, we ordered a tattoo gone off amazon and we did some bullshit on my thighs so I got some like random scribbles on my thighs. That were my first tattoos.
Speaker 1:What do you think about you know the kind of old school, because you're right, there's like a very kind of you know angry type of.
Speaker 3:There's an angry gate. Kept part of the community, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's like okay, you bought a machine on amazon, you know whatever, you know. What do you think about kind of that side of things? Is it just too, you know? Is it just an old idea? Is it just?
Speaker 3:boring and I think it's too judgmental, coming from a community that's made up of outcasts that makes sense, my man I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think you see that a lot like, especially in like a lot of tattoo tattoo shops, um, that kind of specialize in like and traditional work, which is great. You know what I'm saying. But like there's a, I think it's mainly in the american traditional tattoo community, and I'm sure I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but I'm sure I'm gonna that I'm gonna get a lot of love for it too. But I think in the american traditional tattoo community, and I'm sure I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but I'm sure I'm gonna that I'm gonna get a lot of love for it too but I think in the american traditional tattoo community, which I love.
Speaker 3:By the way, a lot of my designs are based off american traditional stuff. Um, I think in that community there's this mindset that, like a, american traditional is the best and like b, if you're not covered in tattoos, like, uh, you don't know shit. You know what I'm saying and you know I'll. I'll address a first. Um, there's so many different types of tattoos and they all come from different cultures and so, like saying american traditional is like the best kind of tattoos, or I've heard people say it's the only kind of tattoo that matters is writing off, you know, like the ignorant style that came out of berlin. It's writing off tribal tattoos that came from, you know, southern america or native american stuff. It's writing off traditional japanese work.
Speaker 3:It's like it's writing off other cultures and I don't think it's a, I don't think it's a good thing to say. And then you know, like the whole, like you're not. Like when you walk into a tattoo shop as a not tattooed person trying to get a tattoo, there's like a level of judgment there and you know who are you to judge. Like getting tattooed is fucking expensive and it's a big commitment. Yeah, like, I think people who aren't tattooed should be met with a lot more love and embrace when they walk into a tattoo shop. For, you know, for making an effort and trying to be a part of the community. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:They shouldn't be shunned out for not knowing much about what's going on. They should be, they should be, they should be loved and they should be taught yeah, man, I agree, I agree 100 with that.
Speaker 1:Did you, uh, did you finish the deadbeat tattoo on your, on your feet?
Speaker 3:no, so I'm waiting for the for the other ones to heal, because I know I'm gonna have to touch them up when I go back in. So I'm just gonna wait for them all to heal and I'll do the the last three letters and then I'll, and then I'll like finish touching, touching up the uh, the first, whatever, however many, it is five letters, just because I want it to look really good. And if it's like all scabby and I'm going back in there, I'm gonna fuck it up royally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right, let's, uh, let's go. Some questions from the internet here, let's do it okay, uh, a couple questions from the internet. Jack, will drake ever recover from his battle with kendrick?
Speaker 3:oh, this is a good one, dude. I honestly drake is a pop star, you know what I mean, and I think a large portion of his fan base doesn't know anything about the rap beef that he had with kendrick. You know what I'm saying. So, like, in the eyes of like people who are like, really hip hop heads, I don't think Drake will ever, like, fully get away from this. You know what I mean. Like it's not necessarily fair. You know what I mean. The same way that, like MGK never got to fully get away from the M and M battle, I think that's.
Speaker 1:I think, that's what's going to happen for Drake, but there's going to be a very very large group of people that continue to listen and continue to support him, because they either don't know about what happened or they just don't care. Yeah, I mean, I think you know obviously Drake's going to be fine, yeah, but you know, it's crazy how, you know, I think, speaking a little bit to what you're saying, dude, it got pretty big, like it got pretty outside of hip hop. It got pretty big and the accusations were pretty crazy.
Speaker 3:I'm a really big hip hop head so I watched all the breakdowns and all the subliminals and all the stuff that's not really on the surface that you might miss Like I kind of dug deep on that. So some of the stuff that was mentioned and some of the stuff that was talked about is pretty irredeemable and you know, in the eyes of like I don't think he will ever ever recover. In the eyes of like a joe budden, you know what I'm saying yeah, yeah yeah, that'll never leave now.
Speaker 3:That's gonna be a stand on his career for the rest of his time. But then again he fucking retire right now and still live very comfortably. He has more money than all of us, so I can't say anything.
Speaker 1:He was. You know, he was kind of he was winning for like the first couple weeks of that.
Speaker 3:You know, and this is something me and my wife talk about- you know, when there was a rap beef starting with Kendrick and Drake, I didn't think Drake would be able to even you know participate.
Speaker 1:So the fact that he got deep into the rounds.
Speaker 3:he got deep in and I think a couple of his punches landed, and so for even that, yes, that's fucking impressive and I'll and I give it to him. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. Let's see here, uh, what has been the most challenging part of gaining popularity for you oh man, social media can be so so, so hard on your brain.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying. Yes, even the good parts. You know what I'm saying. Like even when good parts you know what I'm saying. Like even when a video blows up and does really well and it and it's and it correlates to streaming, it's hard dude, and like having that many people be able to comment on you and have opinions on you can be really really weird and really difficult, and you know it can get really existential really fast. Um, and you know the way the algorithm is now is is interesting. Like some videos do really well, some videos do really poorly. It's just like the way that it goes. Um, so, trying to not look at it as like, oh, this did really well and this did really poorly. Um, I, I try to not look at it like that. I try to see it as like one thing you know what I'm saying. Like these are my videos, this and I'm just trying to reach people in whatever capacity I can. Um, so kind of adopting that mindset has been really difficult, but when it works, it works really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, awesome man, and all right, we got a good one here. Jack, list these Ohio cities best to worst, okay. Okay, we got Dayton, columbus, cincinnati, akron and Cleveland, okay.
Speaker 3:I'm going to say Cincinnati at top. Of course I'm going to say Cincinnati. At top, of course I'm going to say Dayton, number two.
Speaker 3:And that's going to be controversial because Dayton has a really fucking cool punk scene and I went to a lot of really cool house shows in Dayton. I'm going to say Columbus, number three, because Columbus is where Raising Cane's started. A lot of people don't know that, but when I was in high school school there was only one raising canes in all the us and it was in columbus, and we would road trip up every weekend oh yeah, that's a deep cut. Everybody thinks that's just some big chain, but it's not, that's an ohio bred thing.
Speaker 3:um, I don't really know much about akron, so I'm going to say Cleveland at number four. Mgk is going to hate me for this, but I just think Cleveland is a it's not a good place. You know Cleveland kind of looks like you almost said.
Speaker 1:You almost said sucks. I almost no.
Speaker 2:I almost said it's a shithole, but I decided to be nice.
Speaker 3:You know I just like nice. You know I just like you know I've been to cleveland a few times. I think it looks like a scooby-doo ghost town. You know, like I like where, like the fucking bad guy in scooby-doo has just like completely ruined the entire city and everybody's in their house and nobody wants to come out. That's like what cleveland is like. Um, maybe I'm just bending the wrong parts. Like downtown cleveland is a bad place. Um, I'm gonna put akron at five because I don't know much about it. Um, I'm pretty sure it's like a steel milling town or some shit like that I don't know, yeah, yeah, I don't really know much about akron either.
Speaker 1:We've had a couple days off in cleveland over the years and it's always just kind of like and you know I do want to clarify.
Speaker 3:It's not like cincinnati has that much going for it either. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Like I I the only reason I think number one is because I'm from there and I have a lot of memories and I love everything, like I love the city, I love the people, I love the restaurants, like there's a special place in my heart for it. But I'm sure if I was from cleveland I would have the same feeling about Cleveland and I would be able to talk shit all day about Cincinnati. But it's a little bit of a rivalry, nice, nice.
Speaker 1:Okay, a couple pick-ems here to kind of get close to wrapping this up. Thank you for your time. We're going to name some bands here. Just tell me which one you like better. A couple food things in here as well. Okay, let's go with Ramones or Sex Pistols Sex Pistols. Bad Brains or Bad Religion, bad Brains, descendants or Green Day Green Day.
Speaker 3:Black Flag or the Misfits Black Flag, Black Flag for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, street art or fine art, street art, tacos or sushi Sushi Nice dude. Yeah, I saw you posted some shit about what you ate on the record release day. It looks so good. Dude, dude, I love sushi, I love it. So what's your interesting?
Speaker 3:it's one of the only culinary professions that people study specifically yeah, yeah, what's your do you have?
Speaker 1:if you were to put together, let's say you know, let's, let's say you you're putting together like a romantic evening for you and your lady and you're gonna cook what's like your, what would be your signature dish?
Speaker 3:and I'm gonna cook yeah oh man, I'll tell you right now it's not gonna be fancy um doesn't have to be yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull up the grill and I'm gonna make, and I'm gonna make hamburgers, but like, yeah, not a shitty hamburger, like the best hamburger you'll ever have. That's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1:What makes it the best hamburger you'll ever have. What is it? The bun? Oh is it. We're talking about brioche.
Speaker 3:I'm talking about martin's potato roll is the only bun. That's the only acceptable bun. That's the only acceptable bun. Get that brioche shit out of my face. You know what I'm saying? Definitely get that wonder bread bun out of my face. That is garbage you know, yeah, wonder bread.
Speaker 1:You know what's crazy about wonder bread buns? Like, if you like, we were at a campfire, like every year I go do this thing with my buddies and you can put those like in a flame, like in a fire, and then like won't burn yeah, dude, those buns are like, they're garbage, and you know.
Speaker 3:And no disrespect to brioche I love the bread, but I think you kind of shit on brioche a little bit.
Speaker 1:You, I did shit on brioche a little bit, but listen, listen, listen, I don't like fancy hamburgers.
Speaker 3:You know I think every fan like that's like the fancy hamburger bread. I don't like that. I don't like big thick patties with a bunch of toppings, like I like mustard onion american cheese with a smash patty on a Martin's potato roll. Yeah, that's the burger. That matters, right, yeah. Like. I like that Anything else can kind of, can, kind of get going.
Speaker 1:I like that, all right. Uh, last two questions here. Jack, uh, let's do a kind of a bill, and ted's uh, you know, time machine, hypothetical right here, okay, okay, after the interview's done, you go outside, time machine comes down, rufus, bill and ted, they're all in there say hey, jack, come on in anywhere in history you want to go. Where are you going to go first and why?
Speaker 3:anywhere in history you want to go. I'm going to the nirvana, unplugged live oh, that's a good one yeah, I'm gonna be in that crowd. That's where I'm gonna be. I don't need to even explain why. You know what I'm saying. No, you don't that's awesome yeah, that's a good one, man there all right.
Speaker 1:Last question here uh, it's a little bit of a doozy, but I'm sure you got this. Uh, what to you, jack case, is the meaning of life?
Speaker 3:oh, the meaning of life is to form meaningful relationships. Without meaningful relationships, everything else will be worthless.
Speaker 1:Absolutely my man, you know, Jack, thank you so much for your time. It's been an honor getting to talk to you about music, my man. Dude, thank you so much, congrats appreciate congrats on the uh on the record deadbeat disc one is out now. Uh, everyone go listen to that shit. Oh, you know, are you? Are you pressing vinyl at any time? Have you ever done that when disc?
Speaker 3:two comes out, we'll press some vinyl okay because we got a lot of questions about that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And if you have you ever thought about doing like pressing like singles, like seven inches of all those singles you got, I haven't but um you know like you should do a collection dude like I have all these cds right here and I'm basically gonna burn.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna burn disc one and two onto the CDs and I'm going to give all these away before disc two comes out. So some people are going to get an extra special. Look, that's sick.
Speaker 1:If people are really fiending for physical stuff, this is how I'm going to do it for a little bit. Nice, awesome man, awesome. Well, yeah, everyone go check out Jack live. Support the art, support the artists. And man awesome talking to you, really appreciate your time. Thanks again, nice to meet you Awesome. All right, cool, I'm going to turn this off and then we'll make sure everything's good to go. All right cool.