The Sailor Jerry Podcast
Inspired by Norman 'Sailor Jerry' Collins' Old Ironsides radio show on KTRG, we present THE SAILOR JERRY PODCAST! This is a wild homage to all our favorite things – Music, tattoos, travel, spiced rum, and more. Partnering up with our pal Matt Caughthran, the frontman of The Bronx, we're spilling these tales in our own damn style. Brace yourself for biweekly episodes, dishing out killer interviews with musicians who fuel our fire. Buckle up for The Sailor Jerry Podcast – where the coolest stories come to life.
The Sailor Jerry Podcast
77 - Kat Von D
In this episode, we sit down with legendary tattoo artist Kat Von D to explore her deep passion for music and celebrate the release of her new album, My Side of the Mountain. Kat opens up about her diverse musical influences, from classical to punk rock and metal, sharing her disdain for mediocrity and the importance of authenticity. She also reflects on her evolving relationship with the tattoo industry, expressing her disconnect with its modern direction and discussing the tension between genuine artistry and marketing.
For the encore, Matt and Kat reminisce about the pre-cell phone Myspace era, Linkin Park’s controversial decision to carry on with a new singer, the inspiring career of Depeche Mode, Ministry vs. Nine Inch Nails, The Misfits, The Cure, and so much more! As always, the episode is brought to you by Sailor Jerry!
https://www.instagram.com/thekatvond/
https://sailorjerry.com
Hell yeah, what's up, kat? How are you? I'm doing good. Thanks for having me. Awesome, you know. Congrats on your second full-length album. My Side of the Mountain is out everywhere as of the airing of this podcast. It's been three years since your debut album. Love Made Me Do it. A lot can change in three years. A lot can change album to album. How have you grown creatively and how have you grown personally?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean a whole lot. I think the first album that I released was written so long ago I wrote it, I think, 10 years prior to it actually seeing the light of day and that was just because at the time I was just so just busy with everything else I was doing that I put music on the kind of the back burner and so, um, by the time that released I feel like I had already processed a lot of that stuff. Um, so I was actually really excited when I started writing the second album because it felt like it was more up to date with where I'm at on every level and also, too, it's like I think writing music is. You see the different chapters kind of laid out before you and like I'll use Depeche Mode as an example because I love Depeche Mode so much, but when I listen to like the first Depeche Mode album versus their last one, it's I've really enjoyed growing up with them.
Speaker 2:I feel like yeah they've refined their sound, um, everything from their production to dave gahan's voice, is it just? They just keep getting better, and I don't think that everybody does that. I think there's very few bands that you're like, a lot of people are just like stuck in, like the first few albums that they love, like where they go, whereas, like there's bands like like Depeche Mode, that are just, I feel, like get better with time, and so for me, that's always the goal. You know, when I would do a tattoo, people would ask me, like what's the best tattoo you've done? And I would always say that, you know, the last tattoo should be your, your best one, and we're striving to to, you know, be the best version of ourselves and outdo ourselves. So, anyways, all that to say is that I, I do, um, I do love the second album. I, I appreciate it in different ways. I always love my first album, but I think, production wise, and songwriting wise, um, and then vocally, I really, really wanted to push myself on this. The second one.
Speaker 1:Hell, yeah, you know that being said now that it's out, are you? Are you kind of already looking down the road, like you were after the first album?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, for this last album we ended up writing about like 22 songs, and so not all of them made it. I did want to release a bunch more. My manager was like why are you giving everything away so much? I have so much to say and do. But so we'll probably start rolling out a lot of you know different mixes, as well as new songs, like soon after.
Speaker 1:So probably after this tour. Awesome, cool, cool. Um, talk to me about working with uh Shep Solomon and Fernando Garibay, because uh those are two amazing producers.
Speaker 2:Um, how do these songs come together? Um, yeah, I met Fernando, actually through my husband, I think. Uh, him and his producer team. They were fans of, uh, rafa's music. My husband's name is rafa, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, and his band's name is prayers and, uh, he just makes the coolest music.
Speaker 2:I think like he created his own genre and I think that's how he got onto fernando's um radar, and then he came over and I feel like fernando didn't really even know anything about me, and then my husband was like, oh, you should check out my wife, she's making music. And then we started rapping about the kinds of music that inspire us, and I just love synth music. I like analog synth sounds and obviously bands from the 80s, and so we were just vibing on that, and so we just said, hey, let's just try and write something together, see how it goes. And and I think we had a really great chemistry um, fernando, I think, has such um an immense amount of knowledge as to the science behind music and or the math behind music. He really understands it as um something more than I do. I just, I just know what I respond to and I know what I want to say. And so it's nice to be able to work with someone who's so knowledgeable in that sense and can guide, guide your sentiment into um, you know the vision you have, so so that was fun. And then he introduced me to some of my favorite songwriters that, um, that I've I've just absolutely loved to work with, like this, this album has made me have like an appreciation for songwriters in a way that I never had before.
Speaker 2:I think that they're the most important part to to music. Um, you know, I think you could be the best producer and you could be the best, but if the song isn't written well, I it's kind of pointless. And so working with people like Sherry short and Faraz and Shep Solomon, um, it just I don't know. I just admire these folks so much because that's my weakest, like my weakest downfall is like I have all the ideas I could do lyrics all day and chord progression, sound design I love all that.
Speaker 2:But when it comes to writing top line melodies and just the structure of songs, I think, because I was brought up in a classical music upbringing, I don't have that in me. Like, I read sheet music, so I'm a little more, I guess, mathematical in that sense. So I'm I'm a little more, I guess, mathematical in that sense, and so, whereas I would, with me and my band, we would write like a sound landscape, and then Faraz would walk in and just breathe life into this song Like I could have never come up with. And I remember when we were writing I am a machine I knew I wanted to write a song to have Elisa White Gloves from Arch Enemy sing on it, and so I had this idea of a theme, and usually when I sit with Faraz or with Sherry, I would just kind of just ramble on about an idea.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's like zooming in microscopically on a moment in time, and that's what I want to write a song about. And then we would play the music and he would just get on the mic and I would just watch something come out. It was, it's divine, it's not, it's not of this world. I don't know how to, and because you know we had I had, on my own, tried to come up with a melody for that song and just failed miserably. And then when he walked in, I was like, oh wow, he just he's everything I wish I could be, but anyways. So I really, I really loved watching that. It's like the closest thing to magic to me to be able to see a painter or an artist of any form, a songwriter, do something where I can understand how you, how you did it. I just don't know how you did it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I don't know if that makes any sense. No, it does. It does. I mean, you know, some people just have that gift you know it's crazy. And songwriters, producers there's so many people out there that connect to music in different ways and kind of see music and feel music in different ways, and you know that's why, you know, being on your own as an artist is a great thing, but I think there's so much growth in collaboration. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Especially with with these folks. I mean, they're used to writing with pop singers and pop artists, so you know, faraz works with people like Katy Perry and, um, you know, dua Lipa and things that are not of my world, um, and so I think it was I. I mean, there were several times where where Faraz would be like oh you know, this is a treat because I get to do something that I normally don't do and I get to exercise a part of my brain in a genre that I don't normally get invited to, and so I was like, yeah, you know, come over to the dark side, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was checking out some of Fernando's stuff.
Speaker 2:And dude, that guy's a trip dude, like I was watching some of his social media stuff. Oh my, yeah, he's what he he's doing and it's it's so interesting how and I think some of it, you know, he's obviously has a very high IQ and stuff, but um, but I also think it's a it's about the experience he's been doing it for so long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that to me it's like I it was easy to trust and he would point yeah, yeah, many props to him for sure awesome, awesome, um, you know, speaking of songwriting a little bit, when you're writing your own song, when you're listening to a song that you love, um, like, what is it to you that connects? Like what, what are the components of a great song to you?
Speaker 2:um, I mean, it really depends. I think there's I, I I got. My first introduction in music was punk rock. Well, I mean, that was my second. My first introduction was classical music, but then, um, I think that was kind of forced upon me, right, like cause, as a kid no kid really wants to train two hours a day on piano but then I absolutely fell in love with it and um, and I love like the romantist era, so I like beethoven, japan, mozart, that kind of stuff. And then I discovered metal and I, well, I got into punk rock music and I think I that that to me was more just the, the attitude behind um, like you know, it kind of it was exciting to have something to fight for yeah it wasn't necessarily about the, the talent or the skill, because I don't believe there's a lot of punk rock bands that that had that.
Speaker 2:I mean, um, just like a lot of power chords or you know, and it has its own charm. I'm not putting it down, I still like that music. But then once I I discovered metal, that's when I, like the light bulb went off because I could, I could admire the, um, the technical ability, you know, and maybe I understood that the scales on a piano are translating to the same guitar scales.
Speaker 2:And and then there was the, the vocal, vocal aspect. Like these, you know, these, these guys are operatic. And and then it wasn't until, um, I graduated into like the post-punk era that I really was like, oh, this makes my heart sing. You know, like listening to bands like Susie and the Banshees or Depeche Mode or the Cure. There was all of those things. There was the technical ability that they were playing their instruments very well, there was the ability to sing very well, and now there's this poetry, and that's what makes my heart explode, I think when, like, if you can make me cry, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I like to be moved, and so I think it takes all those three things, but then at the same time I like the disco kiss era, so sometimes it feels good too. But yeah, I I just don't like. I think mediocrity is a big turnoff to me. I don't understand, um like, I don't like. I don't like when we're celebrating something based on marketing.
Speaker 2:I think, marketing is a big part of it and I like marketing too. I think there's an art form to that and I appreciate that, but I don't like. There's certain pop bands that I don't understand what the response is to like, why there's this response to it you know, and it's not for me to judge, it's just. I just accept it as it's just not for me. You know, I just don't, I don't listen to it yeah, no, I get that, I get that.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, as a writer and singer myself, I was really stoked to kind of hear you bounce back and forth on the album lyrically between sort of uh, you know, painting a visual picture, telling a story and kind of the classic like personal vulnerability that you see from a lot of the music that you love. You know, what do you enjoy most about the lyrical process?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love storytelling. I don't know if I've just since I was a kid, I've always liked writing. And then I think, once I got on TV and understanding production, um, you know, I, I I was never a big TV person, and then when I, when I got on on television, I was working with these producers and we would lay out each episode, um, and. And then that's when I understood oh, you know, there's, there's, this isn't just organically happening.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously there's things that happen naturally, and then we focus on that, but we're we're telling a story, there's a there's a problem there's an arc and then there's a solution and and so I think you get into the mindset of of that and so, like I love, I love starting to film documentary style and then it only made sense that it would translate into music. I like to tell a story in that sense, but I think with music what's cool about that is that you're not. It doesn't have to be so literal. I think that's one of the things that I love about some of my favorite songs. To me, I think they're love songs but then come to find they were about something else when the person was writing. So I think that's cool to be able to like. A lot of my songs are about addiction or drugs and overcoming that, but they can be translated into a love song or dysfunctional the challenges of a dysfunctional romance.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Is there a particular song or moment on my side of the mountain that you're especially proud of or that holds like significant meaning to you?
Speaker 2:I mean, all of them have sentimental value? None of them are, you know, don't have anything to say. I think Set Myself on Fire is one of my favorite songs and it's not one of the singles, but I wrote that one with Faraz and I think I don't know if I want to get too much into what the lyrics are, because I think it is nice to allow the listener to to make that up for themselves. But, um, I think, in this period of my life where I'm torn between two worlds, uh, that that song just really explains where I might be at.
Speaker 2:so I like it also, I think, production wise it's really. I like the intro that just starts off at a really slow beat and then just ramps up and yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, as someone who has such a massive following, uh, creatively speaking, do you ever feel like you have to like censor yourself? Or do you feel like truly free when you're, when you're creating music, when you're writing lyrics, or do you, you know, does something come out and you're like truly free when you're, when you're creating music, when you're writing lyrics, or do you, you know, does something come out and you're like, oh, I can't, I can't, I can't put that out.
Speaker 2:I gotta reel that back in no, I think being sincere is so important and especially with music, I definitely don't write with the intention of other people listening to it. I guess I don't know how to describe like I'm not going oh my gosh, do I need to, like, curve this a little bit in order for people to like it? My goal is to come at something from from a the standpoint of a fan. Like I'm such a fan of music, Like I'm the one that buys a t-shirt and I buy the tickets, and so I just want to make something that that that excites me. And then, if it excites me, you know, I know that I'm not alone in this journey and there's going to be other people that it'll excite too. But I think once you start making things like forcing them to be something in order to succeed in a way, I don't know, I don't.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm sure that works for a lot of people, but I think also there are those that gain, you know, love from just being yourself. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was curious on you. Know, like, how critical are you on yourself as a musician? You know, like, when you sit down to write a song or record an album, is your creative process like more loose and free, or serious and intentional?
Speaker 2:uh, I think I'm a pretty serious person all the time. My husband is the fun one I feel like in the relationship. I'm always very like. I don't like small talk. I just, you know, always get intense very fast, but yeah, so, yeah, I would say I would be more on the serious, intentional side.
Speaker 1:Awesome. You know a lot of artists love to kind of obsess over the creative process. You've always had like a super cool, dark, immersive style that seemed to sort of define your process, you know, with drawing and writing by candlelight, things like that. You know, in this stage of your life, are you still all in when it comes to establishing a creative space, or have you kind of have you kind of caved in and turned into cold brew and a laptop like the rest of us?
Speaker 2:Never. No, I still do things the hard way. I I don't know. I like traditionalism, I like um. I think there's something important about that. You know, I'm homeschooling my son right now and he's learning how to read and write and um, and I know a lot of public schools have removed cursive from um the curriculum and for me, like that type of stuff is very important. I feel like having a signature is like a human fingerprint and I want to hand down that to my son and so, yeah, I still, I still love writing with a quill pen when I'm writing my thank you cards or happy birthday cards. You know I I love technology. I own a laptop.
Speaker 2:I'm on one right now but as you could tell how difficult it was for me to sign on. I'm not, I'm, I am a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to technology and I'm okay with that, I think, you know, as long as I have somebody to help me. But even with the music stuff, like I think that's one of the reasons I love analog synthesizers is that it's like you still feel that, that, um, that human imperfection. Uh, and I like programming. We did, you know, we obviously programmed a lot of drums and things like that, but as far as the, the, the synth sounds that you hear on the album, that's, that was all we created, that None of that was preset. So, um, I don't know, there's something, there's something cool about that. I like the old schoolness of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome. We got a couple of questions here from the internet.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, of course, of course. Of course. The first one is Kat. What advice would you give to young women looking to break into traditionally male dominated fields, whether it's tattooing, music or business?
Speaker 2:um, I feel I used to get the ask that question a lot. I, um, I feel like nothing is male dominated anymore. Very, I feel like, yeah, we're doing everything. Um, I don't know, I also suck at advice. I think I I always liked to come from the standpoint of not making gender an issue. I think something about that is very annoying to me. I feel feel like when we're like, yeah, girl power, like it's like I should, I shouldn't get a gold star because I'm a girl doing something that typically a man was known for doing, especially when it comes to art, I feel like it's like, not like I'm doing manual labor. You know women are fully capable of being great artists and I don't think it's, you know, necessarily, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I always liked my work to speak for itself. You know, I never wanted to Like. I remember there was this tattoo artist named Corey Miller that was that ended up being on my show for for a short time or for a time, and he was from the era before me or the generation of tattooers before me, and I looked up to him for a long time and I remember the first time that I met him and he just thought I was, um, like a tattooers girlfriend or something. But then he like looked at my, my portfolio and he was like, oh, you're pretty good for a girl. And I just remember going, ah, I just wanted, I wanted, I would like people just to be like, oh, you're good, you're great, or good job, you know, and not make it.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know my estrogen levels. It's weird. I think that's more admirable when, when, when women can just just be and not not make it such a. You know, sometimes we tend to victimize like it's easy to victimize yourself and, um, I don't know why we do that. I think it makes us feel like we're I don't, I don't know, I don't know why we do that you know where.
Speaker 2:It's like um, we had to work extra hard, so it makes us extra better, and I'm just like, ah, just just work hard, yeah, yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that I don't know if that's good advice or not. Tbd, tbd, all right. Next one here. Uh, kat Lincoln Park recently announced a new singer. Uh, if you would have gotten the call, uh, what would your answer have been? And please God, let it be no that's what he asked.
Speaker 2:I don't know, to be honest, I think it's dumb, I think it's it's. Uh, I knew chester and I think he was. He was so awesome and I just feel like okay, well, first of all, I don't. I don't like it when bands reunite without a singer. I think it's, it's it. I think it's dumb, like I like when the doors came back with another, like get out of here, it's not jim morrison.
Speaker 2:I very very few bands have been able to switch singers seamlessly, and I think most of the time it has to do with almost like a um, like a trend, a transition that was approved by the one prior to like do yeah, yeah like um acbc, you know, but it's like I feel like why? Why this?
Speaker 2:is a gimmick first of all, you're having like a girl replace a guy, like it's not. That's just strange to me and I think people want to want to use that as a way to be like, oh no, this is like we're paying homage. Then you're a cover band and you're doing karaoke. But like, at this point in time I'm like, why can't we have the technology to like, make a a damn hologram. Like, make a hologram. If you're gonna do it, you know, and remaster some live vocals. I don't know that. That to me as as a like, if I was a hardcore lincoln park band, that's what I would want to see. The original singer, I don don't want to see some girl pretending like, like she's, she's doing a caricature of something you know.
Speaker 2:And then and then, when I saw the statement of his son saying, like he does not approve, original members not approving this isn't cool.
Speaker 1:Is this a money grab? Like I don't know. I don't.
Speaker 2:I questioned the sincerity of it and so you know. If that offends Linkin Park fans, I'm sorry, but that's just my personal take on it. I'm just like just change the name of the band. Start a new band if you want to do that and cover some songs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of people who feel the same way. You know, I agree with you. It's always an interesting thing because you know, it would seem that it wouldn't be a money grab, but maybe it is. And then it's like, okay, well, obviously it's horrible, Chester's not here, but the band probably. You know, at some point they want to continue on making music. But then, you're right, it just feels like just start something else.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, I mean I just yeah, Like people do it all the time, Bands break up and then other bands and that and that that makes the next band cool. I don't know, I just it, just uh, I just think it's silly, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:Uh, dear cat, you are an absolute legend and I love you. Are you still connected emotionally to the tattoo world or is it starting to feel like a past life?
Speaker 2:Um, I'm not emotionally connected and I don't. I don't think I was, even when I was tattooing full time. I think that when I got on TV, um, it created this weird dynamic where some tattooers like me and others were just straight up haters and I always just wanted to try my best. And I know I wasn't the best. I don't, I don't even. I'm not the best at tattooing. I don't, I don't even know if there is such a thing, um, but I know there's a lot of, lot of tattooers that are better than me. Um, but, but I was given this opportunity. I just wanted to to represent tattooing in the best way that I could at the time and at the age that I was. I was very young and so, yeah, I don't know, I feel like I always felt a disconnection from the tattoo world and that's why in my tattoo shop, I never had flash on the walls. I just collected fine art or things that inspired us as a tattoo team and we kind of were just like lone wolves and did our own thing and focused on us just being as good as we could possibly be and not really engaging to the drama of tattooing. I think. I think tattooers tend to be very egoic driven, and I come from the era where, you know, I'm I'm older now, so I remember my when my portfolio was made up of actual photos and not not Instagram accounts, and so I remember back then it started. You know, people would do tattoos for the photo versus for the person or for the. You know the art and and so, yeah, it's it's a tough line to walk, I think, for tattooers, but yeah, I just don't know, I'm not. I feel like I kind of got out of it at the right time now and and and now I'm going to probably piss off a lot of tattoos, but you know, I see the, the, the, the direction that it's taking now.
Speaker 2:And there's a. There's a lot of really great, amazing artists that are just blowing my mind. I mean, there's some portrait artists that I'm just like oh, I'm just I, I'm not worthy, you know, they're just really amazing. And then there's just like marketing people that are really good at marketing, and you start seeing just like, um, the, the, the how do you say? The lo-fi or dumbed down version of art, and uh, and I just can't back that, like, like, like you're doing bad tattoos on purpose and that, and you know, if that's what people like, it's what they like and you should get what you like. But I, but as as far as art goes, I don't respect that. Like it's the same thing as a what is that that? The guy who does the splatter artwork? I'm just like you're not real Like. Like that's there's not. The value is in the name and not the art, and I think there's a certain technical ability that makes you good and a lot of people don't have that now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, I agree, I agree. All right, a couple of pick-ems here. I'm going to name a couple of bands and you tell me which one you like better. Let's start with uh, ministry, or nine inch nails ministry nice, yeah, hell yeah. Uh, tom waits, or nick cave, nick cave, oh nice. Frankenstein.
Speaker 1:Or dracula, dracula, oh, depeche mode, or the cure death is not an option no, you gotta choose yeah, you stumped me, I can't, I can't choose what about uh, street art or fine art, finer misfits or dead kennedys misfits, love and rockets, or jesus and mary?
Speaker 2:Love and Rockets.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, they're the best, the Grim Reaper or the Angel of Death.
Speaker 2:Huh, grim Reaper, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the Shining or Silence of the Lambs.
Speaker 2:Silence of the Lambs. I love Anthony Hopkins. I'm pretty fresh on him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice Basquiat or Andy Warhol Ugh, neither, neither, really yeah.
Speaker 2:I want Rembrandt. Yeah, all right, all right.
Speaker 1:Coffee or matcha Coffee, nice. Stay up late or wake up early.
Speaker 2:I do both. I don't sleep.
Speaker 1:Nice, Awesome. Just two more questions here, Kat. Really really appreciate your time Hypothetical. Here we're bringing out the time machine, Bill and Ted style. If you could go anywhere in history, where would you go first and why?
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh, Now I'm getting so deep into my head right now I want to say like the resurrection, but then that would be crazy.
Speaker 2:I don't know if my heart could. I don't, I don't even know. I feel like my mind would explode. I was thinking about that the other day. I'm like so much art until this day is still affected by the trauma of that one event, like so that could be. Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean, we have such a history of so much suffering. It's I don't know if there's an era that I would want to go back to, maybe pre-cell phone era. I like to my space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that, I like that, I like that. All right, last question here what to you, kat Von D, is the meaning of life?
Speaker 2:Dude, these are like the hardest questions. I don't know how to answer that one. That one, I feel like it's going to make me cry. You know, I don't put meaning into like like, I think the things that are happening on this earth are there's two parts to life and a lot of the stuff that's happening here is is meaningless, you know. But at the same time that I look at my son and I go, okay, well, there's purpose here, but I don't know if it's my, it's meaning, you know. So, yeah, I don't know, I think I just I want to be a good Christian. I think that's that's like a a good deep part of meaning and repentance, but, um, but I don't know how to articulate that in a good way.
Speaker 2:It's all good, it's all good, I'm too serious, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:It's good. It's good. That was, that was beautiful, that was perfect. Uh, appreciate your time today, kat. Thank you so much Congrats on the album. It's amazing and it was really cool talking to you.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. This was some of my favorite questions asked, so thank you.
Speaker 1:Of course, take care, peace Bye.