The Sailor Jerry Podcast
Inspired by Norman 'Sailor Jerry' Collins' Old Ironsides radio show on KTRG, we present THE SAILOR JERRY PODCAST! This is a wild homage to all our favorite things – Music, tattoos, travel, spiced rum, and more. Partnering up with our pal Matt Caughthran, the frontman of The Bronx, we're spilling these tales in our own damn style. Brace yourself for biweekly episodes, dishing out killer interviews with musicians who fuel our fire. Buckle up for The Sailor Jerry Podcast – where the coolest stories come to life.
The Sailor Jerry Podcast
81 - Macha Schiavone
Macha Schiavone is a well-respected voice and entrepreneur in the traditional tattooing community. Tune in as we explore the enduring charm of Sailor Jerry's iconic flash designs and celebrate the re-release of the legendary book, Homeward Bound: The Life and Times of Hori Smoku Sailor Jerry.
Macha also takes us on a journey from the sun-kissed streets of southern Italy to the bustling tattoo studios of London, where he discovered his passion for traditional tattoos. We delve into how Macha started the renowned @traditionalstattoo Instagram, the sacred connection between music and tattooing, gatekeeping in the industry, tattoo aftercare, and Macha's must-know list of traditional tattoo artists. As always, brought to you by Sailor Jerry!
https://www.instagram.com/machaschiavone/
https://www.instagram.com/traditionalstattoos/
https://sailorjerry.com
Macha's traditional Tattooers you need to follow
https://www.instagram.com/francesco__ferrara_/
https://www.instagram.com/rafadecraneo/
https://www.instagram.com/pauldobleman/
https://www.instagram.com/bara_madrid/
What's up, masha?
Speaker 2:Traditionals tattoo fucking Tiger's Fit.
Speaker 1:Balm aftercare in the house, Sailor Jerry podcast.
Speaker 2:Long time coming. What's up my man? How are you? Yeah man, yeah man, pretty hyped, yeah excited. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, man, Hell yeah and yeah. It's about time that we get some Italian love on the podcast. You know, what can you tell us about your italy growing?
Speaker 2:up in italy. Uh, what can you tell us about it? Pretty much, I grew up in the south I mean, I was born in rome, okay, so my mother?
Speaker 2:is from my father from south italy, so I was born in rome, grew up in the south um, in puglia, which is the you know italy is like a boot. So I grew up in the top of the hill, you know the boot. So at the last very south. But I can't tell you much because when I was 19, I moved out to England, to UK, and I moved out to London. I've been living like 12 years there and then I moved out to Spain. I can't tell you much, to be honest, because you know like I've been living like 12 years there and then I moved out to Spain. I can't tell you much, to be honest, because you know like I've been. I remember like seven, eight year max. You know I just enjoyed with motorbikes and having fun with that with friends at school, but not much, to be honest you know, when was the real fun?
Speaker 2:when the 19 years old, I moved out, I went to UK and was like I used to grew up in a small village down in Italy and I couldn't see much to be honest, like 10 000 people living here, which now I'm living in. I came back to be honest and so for me it was like a blow on my mind when I went to live in london. Really, then that's when I discovered basically my, my passion for tattoos, you know yeah, awesome, everything came together in london.
Speaker 1:That's sick. How did you know the the, the kind of bigger picture of tattooing, come into your world?
Speaker 2:it was pretty. I mean it's, it's funny. You know, it's a kind of funny, a strange situation, because I used to be I used to be a general manager in a sushi place, in a sushi restaurant in london, and I remember in soho, I was in in Broadway Street in Soho and I remember like every single night there was a guy, was a man, a guy, whatever, he used to come and buy those you know sushi from us and this guy had a unique style. It was so cool. It was, you know, it had that aura that he had. It was amazing. So then I discovered it was. It was Dante, which is. I discovered he was uh, uh, it was dante which is the owner from free street, uh, in london you know the studio, free street.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So it was dante. This guy was coming to. It was, and I wanted to know what is this guy doing. And then, you know, talking and chatting, he said you know, I own a studio just around the corner, blah, blah, blah. So I went there and stefano from free street tattooed me the first flesh of sailor jerry, which is, and then from from that time it was just like no stop. I started getting flesh of sailor jerry flashes all over and I just fell in love, you know, and that's it nice.
Speaker 1:What was the first? Uh, sailor jerry flash, you got so from stefano.
Speaker 2:I got like a pilot here, nice uh, and then I have many. To be honest, I got the anya from sailor jerry. I got the eagle. I got, I got two eagle. I got many flashes of sailor jerry. I love sailor jerry yeah, it's, uh, it's.
Speaker 1:It's pretty fucking timeless and we got uh, you know, we got this book right here. That is out, I have it, yeah. Yeah, let's see where you got it where you yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, it's, uh, it's really really amazing. Uh. You know original press here, uh, homeward round. Uh, you know the life and times of sailor jerry and it's out now as of the airing of this podcast. It is out um incredible book uh you know just some amazing stories and photos in here.
Speaker 1:You obviously got a love for, say, the jerry. Yeah. What do you think about his legacy when it comes to traditional tattoos?
Speaker 2:obviously I always like I always talk as a passionate. You know I'm not a tattooer, so I try to respect as much as I can. Like I always talk as a passionate. You know I'm not a tattooist, so I try to respect as much as I can and giving opinion. You know, for for as much as I as I breathe and leave the tattoo world and Sailor Jerry within, I think Sailor Jerry is what made tattoos and traditional tattoos known all around the world. It was that the spark that said, you know, like traditional tattoos are cool and everybody started getting tattooed because you know, when he came up with those, uh, I don't know how many flesh sheets, uh, those were the first tattoos. They were, you know, pretty much aesthetically very nice and liked by anyone.
Speaker 2:I mean nobody could say you know, I don't like it, you know because before that it was different, different style and you know, it was really good at really really good at drawing and painting. So it was like boom. It was like, I think, like he upgraded like a thousand percent what was done before. He made it for everyone and worldwide known. So that was the. That was the thing, I think it's an interesting conversation we're having.
Speaker 1:Like you're saying, you know you come from just kind of an outsider place of artistic respect for the trade and the craft and it's really cool because just artistically you know, from the customer side, so to speak, from someone who walks in and sees that old flash on the wall and sees those designs and see how timeless they are I mean there's just nothing like it. You know what I mean's. It's, it's, it's so fucking cool man absolutely, and I think.
Speaker 2:I think that's the reason why they keep. Uh, you know, like we've seen, like in the last couple of decades, trends, uh, tattoo trends, to come and go, but like, as we always say and everybody says, you know, even stones know that, like, traditional tattoos are there for forever. You know, I mean, you see, like trends come and go, but traditional tattoos are always there because they are like they are forever. You know, like, I don't know, it's just something about it that keeps them alive all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, classics never go out of style, absolutely. You know, let's talk about traditional tattooals. Tattoo the IG, okay, okay, because you know you started that in what? 2017?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 2017. That was the year I started sharing tattoos.
Speaker 1:How did the account come about? And you know it obviously kind of built pretty quickly and now it's pretty much a go-to platform for people to just be able to look at traditional tattoos and tattoo artists from all over the world. Um, so, kind of you know, tell us about the, the account and how it all came together so, yeah, I have much to say to be honest, but I'll try to be quick.
Speaker 2:Um, when I so, when I, when I fell in love with tattoos, I started to, you know, dig in and the only tool that I had at the time you know I was I had no, no knowledge at all. The only tool, the first tool, that was my phone. So I start digging on instagram and, of course, the first things that came up they were those big names of tattooing. You know, I remember chad koplinger and me, mike rubendahl, all those guys, they were killing it already. But then, you know, as I start digging, I've seen so many uh, younger guys and new guys that they were. They were putting like some very cool uh tattoos, but you know they had no fame or you know they weren't known because at the time it was not easy to to, to stand out from the crowd because there was no instagram. I mean, instagram was at those early stages, they were only magazine and it was a different way of growing uh, within the time. So I said you know what I'm gonna? I'm gonna start sharing tattoos.
Speaker 2:And then once I shared a tattoo of a very big, uh, big tattoo, like big, uh, big name and he said you know what? I don't like my, my tattoos to being on other people's page. Just please don't share it anymore. So I said you know what? I'm gonna start sharing tattoos from those guys. They deserve some, you know, like they do they. They put in like very nice work, but they don't have their recognition at the moment and you know that that from that time it just picked up and starting to start growing non-stop. To be honest, nice, you know funny things. At the beginning it used to be I used Nice, you know funny things. At the beginning I used to kind of get, I used to get a lot of hate because at the beginning with me and with my page, there were so many pages that started with me but all those pages they were charging tattooers to post tattoos on those platforms.
Speaker 2:Really yeah, yeah yeah, and I never done that. So the tattoo industry was a little bit upset. They were hating on those pages. They were benefiting whatever they were making money out of the tattooers. So yeah, I kind of got a lot of hate for that because I wasn't posting like I'm not charging guys, whatever.
Speaker 2:I don't sell posts. I think I did sometimes, but the truth was that people were thinking about my page like everybody else was doing. You know, yeah. But then you know, after you know, after some years, I even thought, like you know, those were the same people that used to pay magazine to be advertising those magazines, you know. So then you know, I don't know, it's a strange world, I can't have a proper opinion about it. But you know.
Speaker 1:There's parallels in the music industry as well, because there's always, you know, you have a platform that's awesome and that is done with style and done with respect, you know. So it's like, whenever there's a lot of eyes on something like that, there's always going to be all different types of people who want to be involved.
Speaker 1:There's people who are like-minded, like you, who get it, and it's all about the art and the trade and the craft and the promotion and the collaboration. And then there's people who might not necessarily get it and promote it from like uh, you know, like the way a major label would pay a radio station to put their band on yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's like. It's like there's people who just don't get it, who are always just gonna try that like hey, maybe I can buy my way into this, yeah yeah, yeah, I mean, I understand.
Speaker 2:I mean, with years I got to understand many things I didn't understand. You know the early days when I start to. You know talking and reading about tattoos, even you know gatekeeping and things like this. Know, with, with time and you know researching and talking to people. Um, then you get it, you get it and you get why you know so many things are like this. They are meant to be like that and are not meant to be, to be changed. You know, and sometimes it's not about gatekeeping, sometimes it's about the love and passion for the craft and you don't want that to go away. The magic behind tattooing, you know, and, yeah, if you know it, you know it. Magic behind tattooing, you know. Yeah, if you know it, you know it. And not many people get to know that and get to understand and they just, you know, they see what they see and they say you know that's gatekeeping and it's not like that. You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an interesting topic. Let's dive into that a little bit, Because the idea that you know I was thinking about this today and I don't even know, like if you had to take a wild guess, how many tattooers do you think there are, like in the world right now.
Speaker 2:Tattooers. I mean tattooers. I don't even know how to define tattooers, but I don't think many people can be defined as tattooers because some people take it in a way, some people take it in another way. There are musicians that take a guitar and read the notes and just play it, and then there are people like you creating music. You know diving into, you know a specific style, loving the style, doing the research of why a style is like that. You know, not just taking it and copying it and paste. You know it's a. It's a very deep conversation, but I think I think it's important to make some differences. You know, again, my opinion.
Speaker 1:It's just tough. It is an interesting thing yeah.
Speaker 2:Nowadays, I think there is no point to talk about Amazon or to talk about you know, however you start, because you know capitalism, or however you call that. It took over. So it you know, for people to be pushed back on that it's I don't know, but that's not the way to approach tattooing, that's for sure. You know the way to approach tattooing. I would think, if I mean if I would have to do, I would do my research. I would think about you know all the, if I have any studio around that I can go and get an apprenticeship or how you call that, and you know I would do things in the right way.
Speaker 2:I mean it's, it's if, at the end of the day, if you want to tattoo, if you want to put a design on the skin, you can do that, you know. But there's much more about that. You know you want to be a tattoo artist or you want to be a tattooer, whatever. But if you really fell in love with tattoos and you it's you can't avoid that, you know. Because if you fell in love with the craft, you're gonna go through the history. It's impossible not to go.
Speaker 2:If you fell in love with the first thing you're gonna do, you're gonna start digging into history and then you're gonna start thinking about coloman, bob, showbert green, you know, like a bar chef and all the sailors, and then it's impossible not to fall in love. And then, when you're gonna fall in love, I think it's like it's mad, it's gonna come, it's. It's a, it's a path that you're gonna. You don't know it, you're gonna take it. You know't know it, you're going to take it, you know. Then there is another way. If you don't fall in love with tattoo, I think, and the only thing you want is to look cool and to get some tattoos and make a couple of bucks here and there. Then, of course, you know your path is the one to go on Amazon, buy a machine and start scratching people inside the kitchen. You know, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:It's organic. You know the good way, the good path. I think it's organic, you don't think about it, and the love and passion I think it will feed your path and you can't avoid that, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. That's well said, man, well said. What do you think about people going under Anastasia? For you know large pieces, you know back pieces have been worked on by, you know multiple tattoo artists at a time. You know a lot of like NBA players, you know football players, stuff like that, that can kind of you know, basically afford to do a process like that. But there's also, you know, kind of going into what we're talking about with gatekeeping. There's that whole kind of old school mentality of you know you should be present when you're getting tattooed, so where do you, where do you sit on on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, those are people that are getting, you know, bodysuit and I don't know to which they run. But you know, as far as I, as far as I like, I think, especially in traditional tattooing, the best thing, I mean, the good thing about it, is to collect it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, you go there and you get a piece from Paul Doberman. Then you go to Spain, you go to Madrid, you get it from Vara, and then you jump to Barcelona, you get it from Rafa, and then you know Ferrara and whatever. So then you collect those. So there is no point for me to each day, but it's no point for me to just sit on a chair and get on the stage and get all the boys because you know that's the good thing is to you know. I can tell you, I remember when I've done this one that I was there and there and there, and then you know when I've done this. So you collect tattoos and at same time, experience, and with different tattoo artists, different experience, know. So that's a good thing. It's not just drawing on your body, it's not that.
Speaker 1:You know, one thing I wanted to get into, which we don't really get a chance to do a lot here, is, I thought, since we have you on, you've obviously got your ear to the ground, you've got the platform, You've got the page. You know, you know a lot of great tattooers out there and you know with know a lot of great tattooers out there and you know, with Sailor Jerry and their platform and the book coming out, I just thought it would be a really cool thing to maybe highlight like five traditional tattooers that are doing some work that you think is great or that people should know about and follow, and if they've got an Instagram, we'll make sure to link it in the episode bio. So who are some some tattoo artists out there that you really that you really like? I mean?
Speaker 2:there are so many tattoos I could need so many, but I mean, there is, my friend Francesco Ferrara was killing it yeah completely killing it. I mean it's just you, friend Francesco Ferraro, who's killing it. Yeah, completely killing it. I mean it's just you know. Go watch on Instagram and see what he's doing. You know he's worth his picks by himself. You know, like Sailor Jerry used to say, he's a badass.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got a little dragon right there and you know what, francesco?
Speaker 2:it's a very, very nice person. It doesn't come across social media the same way. He's in real life. It's a very, very nice person. It's very cute. It doesn't look like he's cute, but it's so cute. So, yeah, people should go follow him and definitely he's a grinder dude.
Speaker 1:He works, he works non-stop dude. He's always, always tattooing um and super, super bold uh, you know colors. Uh, and his, his, uh, you know his. One thing I like about his page is his, uh, his back piece mission man you know, like he's, he's just on he's, he loves, he loves doing back pieces and he's got just multiple uh, you know, multiple things going at once and it's a really cool follow. So absolutely, that's, that's a great one. Francesco is no ipad.
Speaker 2:He calls me like 3 o'clock in the morning 3 o'clock, you know, california time and he's drawing until 4, 5 o'clock, you know always drawing. He makes his own pigments and he tattoos and you know like everything it's like handcrafted, handmade, and I love the Ryan. Then there is Rafa, who's done my neck here, Nice, rafa De Crani. He lives in Barcelona. He owns the studio Chica Pantera. I think Rafa, it's my age, I guess he's 35 years old, and, like Francesco, he already has done so much and he has his own twist of traditional tattooing and it's special man, like he's got something. I mean he's got like an extra. I think he's got an extra. I don't know how he does it. He always comes up with the flesh and design that are like they make you go like whoa. You know where did he come from you?
Speaker 1:know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It just goes growing and it surprised me all the time and the amount of I mean he's producing so much. You know, like the, the guys like my age 35, I think when he's gonna be 45 or 50, he's gonna have like huge amount of work done. So he's definitely someone, uh, um, to be looked at and awesome, awesome. Well, I mean barra in madrid Madrid, I think, is the big boss, absolutely. Do you know Bara from Madrid? No, so I think Bara is like I don't know if it's 50 now, 50 or 48, I don't know how old is he?
Speaker 2:but he's definitely older than me, pretty much. So it's an absolute master. Really, go check him out, because that guy it's a, it's a I don't know. I love what he does and uh, you know that when you told to people like, at least in europe and even in um in the states, when I told to my friend, if, when you go like, tell me one tattooer who, I mean if you would have to say one tattooer at the moment, like that's traditionally they all go like barra, barra, barra, barra, barra. So, and you know what, and it's um, as rafa, and uh, and francesco barrett's another guy that is always charming, he's always smiling, he's always happy to help. It's like an amazing person. So I consider that too. When I, when you know, when I have to name someone so and I got tattooed with him, it's always an amazing person. So I consider that too. When I, when you know, when I have to name someone so and I got tattooed with him, it's always a nice experience too. So, yeah, top.
Speaker 1:Awesome, give me two more, masha, two more that there are not many like I mean paul doberman, you know, you have uh.
Speaker 2:You have annie jorgensen, you have uh you know, you have um chanka Julie.
Speaker 1:Mondi. Hell yeah yeah, I got tattooed by Doberman Doberman's the best man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's another guy that you know you can't avoid to love him, because it's such a great person and always, always available for anything, and he's so cute and he's very nice all the time. He's just a sweet guy, you know like yeah, absolutely, there are many man like, especially in Europe. You know, traditional tattooing used to be something that people considered to be American, you know like.
Speaker 1:American stuff.
Speaker 2:But you know, like I think in the last couple of decades we had Spain, italy. They just exploded with those old traditional artists. They're doing some very cool shit, man like a lot. I think most of the reason why, for example, in.
Speaker 2:Italy, like in Italy, it's full of art. And then people like, for example, rome. You go walking in Rome and you see angels, you see eagles, you see stuff, and then, if you're a traditional tattooer, it's impossible not to get inspired by that. You know like people go walk in Phoenix and they see I don't know skyscrapers. If you go walk in Rome, you see everywhere like art. You know, angels, eagles, you name it so so yeah uh, you name it.
Speaker 1:So so, yeah, yeah, awesome. Well, that's uh. We appreciate your, your, uh, your insight there, and we'll make sure to tag uh all of these great artists in the uh in the episode notes so people can follow them on instagram. Uh, what about uh? What about music? What kind of music? You fuck with you.
Speaker 2:Uh, you cut with everything I listen to everything like dire street, pink floyd, queen and stuff like that too. Oh wow, two-pack biggie and uh, you know harry klepton, and I listen to jazz, the blues. I I'm not an expert but if I, if I had to go with uh, with the band, I would go with dire street and queen. You know I actually got a tattoo from uh the Queen logo when I was 16 or 17, I don't remember, I was um, I was pretty in love with Freddie Mercury and Queen. But I listen pretty much everything you know, even like Italian shitty music. You know, at the end of the day I they put it. You know they push it in my head with radio and when I go to the gym and then you know I like it, I listen. And then you know you, if you go through my phone, you're going to go from music from South Italy like popular music to, you know, lady Writer on Dire Street, to Tupac.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I always loved about getting tattooed and this kind of maybe goes back a little bit to us talking about when you collect tattoos and you get the experience is the shop experience too.
Speaker 1:The shop experience is such a cool thing to be aware of and present of. Along with that is the music aware of and present of, and along with that is the music Like I always love when you go into a tattoo shop, how music plays such a big role and it's like you know whoever's, whoever's fucking phone is playing or whoever's got you know whoever's taking turns, djing, or this person's playlist is going today, or they have one big playlist for the shop that everybody adds to. Music is such a it's such a cool part of the tattooing experience for me. Uh, I always just love what's playing in the shop and there's, you know, sometimes it's classics and sometimes like you're saying it's, it's, you know shit you haven't heard before, and that's like a double whammy for me, where I can go in and get a bad-ass tattoo and come out and be like fuck, like what band was that that's?
Speaker 1:awesome yeah, you know because tattooers have great taste in music, usually because they listen to it all fucking day, so they hear. They hear a lot of stuff. You know whether it's like oh, that sucks, change it, or that's awesome. You know who is that. So I like how music and tattooing merges that way, you know absolutely.
Speaker 2:It played a big part in tattooing as well. You know like it was underground tattooing and music always been a huge, a huge and then for for the experience thing it's like. I think it's music you once put. Music is that thing that puts memory on a map, on a brain map. Yes, I don't know if it makes sense what I'm saying, but for me a memory is always connected to like. The best memories are always connected to music because they just complemented the experience. Funny enough, I've never been to a proper concert and next year I'm going to offspring concert. My mother just give me the tickets and you know what? As I said, you know we talked about dire street queen, you know italian music and now I'm going to the offspring concert, yeah, so I like everything yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's. It's so true what you said, like I, I just you know, I, you can imagine, everyone has those moments where you know if you're, if you're getting tattooed and you know bohemian rhapsodies on or whatever songs come on like you're gonna remember that, you know you're, you're gonna remember that. It's gonna be a moment that you won't forget and and that's what it's all about, you know, absolutely, I mean yes, it's you.
Speaker 2:You go back in time when you listen to, I mean, every song, many songs that I like. They're always related to a piece of memory I have, you know, and I can go back in time and I can smell the same smell that I smelled that time and I feel the same feeling and it's unbelievable smell that time and I feel the same feeling and it's it's unbelievable. But it's true, you know, like I listen to a lot of kind of music, but there are some, you know some bands and some song that whenever I listen to them it gets me, you know like you go like, wow, you know, that's, that's what I really like. You know that, what really gets me, you know yeah, yeah, uh, tell us about tiger spit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what? Uh? When did that come into uh existence and and how did you dream that up so um?
Speaker 2:yeah, as a, as I told you before, I was in london doing, uh, I was general manager for, you know I was doing hospitality and stuff and, uh, as the page started to grow, grow, I started to get to, you know, many tattooers that became my friend and I was like man.
Speaker 2:Everybody, all my friends, they were like man, you should do something, you should try to, should do something and try to work and do something that could be related to tattoo. Because you're doing it already, supporting so many projects, because at the time I was like supporting any project I could within my page. You know, I'm giving my platform to whatever was at the time a good idea to do so. Then I said you know what? I was very shitty at drawing and I said tattooing is not gonna be my thing. So I was with with my wife, andrea, we, we talked about creating an aftercare and it's been really tough because it was self-funded we never borrow money for anyone or bank and stuff.
Speaker 2:And then you know, slowly, slowly, I remember I, samuel preganti, drew my logo. I said I got in touch with him. I said, man, I need to. I want to make an aftercare cream, a tattoo balm and stuff and I need a logo. So he sat down there and made a logo and I was ready to start working on it. It's been tough because it was very difficult. I mean, I didn't know anything about cosmetic and stuff. So I started studying, me and my wife. We studied a lot and then slowly picked up, and thanks to the help of all my friends you know all the friends I made within tattooing I was able to get to this point. You know, and I give that's why I'm trying all the time.
Speaker 2:I feel like I own tattooing something and I always try to give back to tattooing because thanks to tattooing now I can make a living, you know, and I try to make it in a respectful way, not to cross the line. I keep in mind all the time I'm not a tattooer, someone outsider, and I live off tattooing.
Speaker 1:So anytime I can support project anywhere around, I always do it, you know yeah, that's awesome, man, that's awesome, and, and and in turn, you know it, it's cool that you are getting, you know, the love and support and respect back Everybody you know, if you can, if you've got the means to go support, you know, tiger Spit Aftercare Definitely want to keep, you know, promoting people within the within the industry man who give a shit about what's going on. So, absolutely, um, let's do a little, uh, a little flash battle here, okay I'm gonna name.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna name some, uh, some kind of traditional flash, uh, and you tell me which, which image you prefer. Okay, uh, let's go. Let's go. Snake versus dragon Dragon Dragon. What about tiger versus panther? Tiger Wizard versus Grim Reaper.
Speaker 2:Grim Reaper, absolutely 100%.
Speaker 1:Horseshoe or lucky dice Horseshoe, Ooh nice Skull. Or flowers Skull all the time. Yeah, I love skull. What about spiderwebs? Or pinup girl?
Speaker 2:I love pinups, but I love spiderwebs as well. What about you?
Speaker 1:I go spiderweb, I go spiderwebs. Spiderwebs are hard dude. Spiderwebs are awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even because they're always done in very, very painful spots, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never, you know, I've been wanting to get a pinup girl. That's one thing that I don't have, that you know there's so many great. You know, specifically Sailor Jerry flashes of, but yeah, I just haven't gotten there yet. What about if you had to go back piece battle, if you had to go battle royal or rock of ages? What do you go? Rock of ages, yeah, yeah, yeah, rock of ages is tight, uh, okay, just a couple more questions here. Uh, let's do a hypothetical for you, masha. Uh, a time machine, okay. Uh, we're gonna have a time machine show up outside of your place. Uh, you know, someone awesome gets out of it and says hey, you know, here's the deal, masha, you go anywhere in history, okay, anytime. Where are you going to go first and why?
Speaker 2:Let's be romantic, let's not think about money, because if I would go back in time, I would go back in time, you know, when Bitcoin first started. You know I would buy like 10K of Bitcoin. I would go back in time. I would go back in time, you know, when Bitcoin first started. You know I would buy like 10K of Bitcoins a million today. But you know, to be romantic, I think I always get so. I'm always fascinated. When I saw those movies, you know like I remember when I watched, you know, john Dillinger, the Public Enemy with Johnny Depp, and have you watched that movie? Yeah, when I see those kind of movies, when I see all this style and you know those years, everything was different, even music. When you went to the pub or you went to listen to music, it was a different, you know, a different environment. Everything was a little bit more chilled.
Speaker 2:You were taking time to enjoy everything you know, a different environment. Everything was a little bit more chilled. You were taking time to enjoy everything you know and there was not. This now you have. I mean, the input of content and music and imagery is like pushed into your mouth and your head constantly. At the time it was everything had a time. You went to the pub, you enjoyed your drink and you listened to the music and you had this conversation and you were on the spot every time. So I wish I could have tried that kind of living and see what's the difference, because as far as I'm concerned for myself, I'm never in one place at the same time. You know, I'm always like two phones, speaking with someone reading this, thinking another thing, and you know I wish I could ever try that one. You know the way they picture it in the movie even uh, it's, it's different, it's like romantic, I don't know it's. Uh, it gives me.
Speaker 1:You know, I wish I could try that yeah, yeah, you want to slow down and and enjoy the moment a little bit. Yeah, I like that. I like that absolutely, man. Uh. Okay, uh, last question here, masha, uh really appreciate uh your time today, my man. Uh, this has been awesome rapping with you. What to you is the meaning of life?
Speaker 2:I think the meaning of life is to learn to be a better version of yourself and be prepared for what's coming next.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think we come here to learn. You know, even when the shit hit the fan, there is always a reason. That means we had to be, we had to learn something and be and grow within those experience. And yeah, I think the meaning of life is to learn and to grow within yourself and to be a better person or a better version of yourself. You know, in Italy we say I'm going gonna translate it be good and forget about it, be bad and think you know. In other words, you know, be kind to people and just don't expect anything from others and be bad and always remember what you, what you've done, you know. So I think that's the mission try the best version of yourself awesome man.
Speaker 1:Can you say that in italian?
Speaker 2:let's get some italian on the podcast you want some italian, but you want the italian yeah, give me the, give me the italian I don't know what the fuck man. There is this thing. My TikTok is full of those shit that people I don't know there is this kind of love for Italian American people. We don't talk like you think, guys. We don't speak like we don't have spaghetti meatball.
Speaker 2:It doesn't exist, man, it's not. We don't have it in Italy. They, I don't have it in italy. They, they like, I don't know, like even the, the accent, you know, they, just you know, I think it's something, it's something different. You know, it's true, we talk with our hands.
Speaker 2:You know like I'm listen, this man I'm managing in london used to. When I first went to london manager I had manager. So this manager used to do this to me. It was coming to me blocking my hands, like that, and it was like speak now and I couldn't. I felt so wrong man, because if I couldn't move my hand I couldn't talk. But yeah, they did this thing like forget about it.
Speaker 1:That's fucking great man. Awesome, masha. Well, we appreciate your time here on the Sailor Jerry podcast. Thank you for having me Homeward Bound is out now, ladies and gentlemen, traditional tattoos, go get the book, give Masha a follow, support everything he's doing. Yeah, man, just thank you so much for your time today, really appreciate it, brother, thanks for having me.