S17 E5: The One About The CTSG Leadership Course

Fiona Moss is back on the podcast to tell us all about the leadership scholarship programme run by Culham St Gabriel.

If you are a leader of RE with a role wider than your school and you want to take the next steps in your career then this is the programme for you

We discuss how and why it started,  who should consider applying, some of the recent developments in the programme. Plus we hear from past and current educators from the programme. They will tell us how the programme has shaped or transformed their development as a leader, what they found most valuable about the programme, where the programme has taken them and why they think people should apply to the Leadership Scholarship programme.

If you want to find out more, sign up for the webinar on 10th February, website

https://www.cstg.org.uk/events/leadership-scholarship-programme-introductory-webinar-registration/

More information can be found at;

https://www.cstg.org.uk/scholarship-programmes/leadership/

In the episode we will give out dates and deadlines.

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

This episode of the Army Podcast is sponsored by Reimagining Education, an organization dedicated to making learning inspiring, relevant, and future focused. Just like this podcast, they're passionate about exploring life's big questions and helping both students and teachers thrive. Find out more at reimaginingeducation.uk. A huge thank you to Reimagining Education for supporting the podcast. Welcome to the R.E. Podcast, the first dedicated RE podcast for students and teachers. My name is Louisa Jane Smith, and this is the RE Podcast. The podcast for those of you who think RE is boring, which it is, and I'll prove it to you. My guests today all have something in common. The Cullum St. Gabriel Leadership Scholarship Programme. Either they lead it or they've done it. And they have come on the programme today to tell you all about it and how much it has transformed their practice and career. We are hoping that some of you listening, yes you, might be inspired to find out more about it and maybe consider applying yourself. So I'd first like to welcome Fiona Moss back on the podcast. Welcome Fiona. Hello. Hello. Could you introduce yourself to the listeners and explain your sort of wider role, but also your role within the Leadership Scholarship Programme?

SPEAKER_06 1:19

Thank you. So I work for Columb St. Gabriel's Trust, and my fancy title there is The Education and Programs Manager, which means I do things like, I'm sure you all go on RE online. If you don't, you entirely should. So I think I'm in charge of what goes on that and running things like the very exciting focus weeks that we put up there, one coming up on the power of story. I also run our programs, the Leadership Scholarship Program that we're going to talk about is one of those. But we have one for doctoral scholars, people who are teaching and doing a PhD, and masters scholars as well, similarly, working as teachers, but studying for a master's. And then just lots of other things about RE. I kind of love RE. Like I'm guessing all your listeners do, Louisa.

SPEAKER_07 2:10

Well, if they don't, hopefully they're beginning to. And I think actually we're all on the call here, like proper RE geeks. Not that that's a requirement for the program, but it might help. But let's just talk about what it is. So can you just tell us what the leadership scholarship program is?

SPEAKER_06 2:25

It is an amazing opportunity. That's what it is. It's a two-year program that you do whilst you're doing your normal job. So you're a teacher in school, and actually you're a person who is a leading RE or R VE or RME, so many names for a beautiful subject. So you might be in Wales, you might be in Scotland, you might be in England, you might be in Northern Ireland, and you're leading beyond your school. You're probably still teaching a class. You're most likely to be the subject leader in your school or the head of department, but actually you're reaching outside your school. So you are perhaps leading across a multi-academy trust in England or leading a local network group. This is for you if you're leading beyond your school. So it's run by Cullum St. Gabriel's Trust, but actually it's a whole community endeavour. And that's one of the things I really love about it. It's a program that has input from lots of different RE organizations and is led and facilitated by lots of different organisations. It helps you to become more research engaged, more curriculum engaged, more politically engaged, and if you possibly could be, more classroom engaged. It's a program that has 12 hours of one-to-one mentoring each year, not in one block, you understand, over the whole year. And then in the second year, because it's a two-year program, a different mentor on another 12 hours. That is such an empowering thing to have and to be given. Note the words there, you're not paying for that. You have a series of structured development tasks. It might be doing an e-learning course, a short e-learning courses, or we have communities of practice. So online we meet up of an evening and we chat about a big RE subject and we find out more about it and we offer our opinions and we listen to one another. You find a really supportive community, a community of your peers. And it'll be really interesting when we talk to some of the other guests later, Louisa, because I think that ends up being such an important part of what people get from this program. And that's not something the program can give you. You have to produce that yourselves. You also have opportunities to reflect. We give you opportunities to write from blogs onto longer pieces, to learn about leading, to reflect, to do some, really looking in depth at some of your own practice, researching some of your own practice in school, and presenting on what you've learned, really understanding the landscape of the subject in your nation, in your area, across all of our four nations. We learn about one another, understanding that landscape of the subject. And as leaders, how can you affect change with the groups you're working with? And when you need it, where can you get support? Where can you get stuff to help you? So you can hear I'm passionate about it, but it it's a program I've been fortunate enough to be involved in for a very long time, and I've seen the difference it makes to people, and I love it as a result of that.

SPEAKER_07 5:57

What's so lovely is as you're talking, all the guests that are here that are going to talk about their experience are kind of nodding. You know, I know that you can't see that because it's a podcast part, that's what I'm sort of telling you. And I know that when they're talking about their sort of testimony and their experience of it, they're gonna support what you've just said, particularly about the community. But let's take it back a little bit, let's think about the history of this. Why did it start? When did it start?

SPEAKER_06 6:19

So it started before this program. This program grew out of another program that was started by the Association of RE advisors, inspectors, and consultants. And they knew that actually it was far more difficult to find those opportunities to lead outside your own school or to be developed to do that. So I'm terribly old, and in the 1990s, the opportunities that I got to work with my local authority to do some writing on my local agreed syllabus or to speak to groups, those aren't there as much. And the people who were in Ariak were aware of that, and so they wanted to develop more opportunities because they knew those opportunities in regions and the different nations had degraded. And so Ariak started it, and then I think there was a realization this was big and was something that the whole community could add to. And Cullum St. Gabriels had provided the funding for Ariak's brilliant idea, and so it became a whole community program that comes out of Cullum St. Gabriel's, and a wonderful woman called Claire Clinton led the steering group as that started, and I was on the steering group when it very first started because I used to have a role with the National Association of Teachers of RE. So I've been there since 1999, which is when the Cullum St. Gabriel's bit of it started. Ariak started a year and a bit before that, and we went on to develop a wider program than that which Ariak had done, but really built on that. And you can still see those roots in what happened. We knew that support was needed to those passionate and knowledgeable primary and secondary teachers that we knew were out there but weren't getting the opportunities. And we wanted to give people opportunity to find their voice, to use their voice, to be heard, to raise their confidence, and to give them even more opportunity to have impact, to develop their vision, to develop their connections, and to develop their careers. So we hope that from when it started, that's what it's continued to build and do. And I'm entirely biased, but I really think it does.

SPEAKER_07 9:02

And you mentioned in the sort of first bit who it's for, which is it's for RE professionals who have already got a foot sort of on a sort of wider level than their school. But is there anything else we need to know in terms of who it's for and who should consider applying and why?

SPEAKER_06 9:18

If you're in Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, England, and you support others other than those in your school, so um, it might be a group of you back in the day, uh when I was a teacher, I got a bit fed up of being on my own in my classroom. It felt like the only person passionate about RE in my big school. And so, this is how long ago it was, I wrote a letter to all the other schools and said, Shall we meet and chat about RE? So if you're the person that gets people together to meet and chat about RE, whether it's across a multi-academy trust if you're in England, an ad hoc group like the one I set up, or you're involved on an executive, so Storm in Scotland, or Natre in England, if you're involved with a Matt, a subject association, or maybe you're the teacher rep on your SAC or SACRA, you're doing something to make a difference in RE. You're supporting ITE in your local teacher training institution. So, what you might be doing is beyond teaching and beyond being a subject leader, this is absolutely for you.

SPEAKER_07 10:36

Now, we've spoken about this before on the podcast, Fiona, and actually, what will be interesting is to think of some of the ways in which the course has developed, because actually, this is a dynamic course that's constantly changing and evolving to meet the needs of the people that are on it. So just talk us through some of the kind of significant changes that have happened recently.

SPEAKER_06 10:54

Well, one of the things we have on this program is we have communities of practice. Sounds terribly fancy, but it's times when we meet up in the evening to talk about some key things that you might be doing in your role or that might be happening in the world of RE. And what we focus on in those communities of practice changes over time. So we've always looked at social media, for instance, but what we do in that session has changed massively because of the ways we use or don't use social media. And actually, we've had to broaden those sessions out to talk about how you get your voice heard, for instance, if you're not using social media. We've also are in a period where there's big curriculum change. So in Scotland, they're absolutely in the middle of curriculum change. In Wales, the new RVE curriculum has actually not been in place for very long. And in England, we're in a really important place when we consider whether we can get RE in the national curriculum. So we're able to talk about those key things at the right time and help people understand what the barriers might be, what we can learn from the other nations. So, kind of being ready to change and adapt the program for who's on it and for the times that we are in would be one thing. I think another thing we've done is we've been really aware of the experience of our mentors and how we match that to our mentees and the necessity to diversify who our mentors are. So that's their background and their experience as a way of showing that this is a program that is for everybody from all sorts of different communities. And then the final thing I think I would mention is thinking about our research reading and our focusing in on your own practice. So you will know, because we've talked about this before, Louisa. For some people, engaging in research reading is probably not top of the list of things they love. Listener, you can't see how much Louisa is not. And that's not your go-to thing to do. So finding ways of making that more accessible and helping people to perhaps hear it rather than read it, going, it's okay. I know you don't understand that long word. Can I just tell you, neither do I? And it's okay to look it up. We have a WhatsApp group, and it's hilarious before the reading group, because we we have this research reading group, and I'll tell you a little bit more about that, but in year one and year two, and and as part of that, there's a short piece to read, so like an article for a publication, and usually the first person goes, I'm not sure what such and such means. I've looked it up. It was often Sarah, actually, who's you're gonna hear from later, and I think it means this, and then that just opens the floodgates for everyone else to go, phew, I wasn't sure. I'm so glad you've asked that. So it is allowing people to, if they feel able, to sort of say this is difficult, and I need to find different ways of doing it. So we're very open to that, and we've tried to be more open. And then when you're looking at your own practice in more detail, so it's finding ways of doing that that are really small but really meaningful, and giving you those opportunities to reflect. And we've tried to scaffold that a little bit more and find ways of people doing that that are individual to them. It's not a cookie-cutter style way of doing it. And similarly, with diversifying those mentors, that allows us to really guide someone through doing that researching practice project. Something you're doing in your own school, and that match is really important, and helping them talk about it and helping them write about it. So I hope that we have improved what we have done there, and we will continue to do that because every year it's a different group of people, and we have to meet their needs and also the needs of the world in which we're working.

SPEAKER_07 15:34

And I think that's something that is so important for people to understand is that you don't have to be a certain type of person or a certain type of learner or really clever. You know, someone like me who did struggle with it, got so much support, but actually the team that I was with, the community that I was with, I think we kind of got through that together. And actually, it sometimes helped them when I said, I don't understand this, they would go, Oh no, I didn't either. And actually, that brought us together and helped us to kind of overcome some of those obstacles and become better at what we're doing and at those skills that we found difficult. So I think it's really important for anyone who's sitting there going, I kind of meet the criteria, but I don't think I'm good enough. There probably isn't as much of a barrier as you think there's gonna be.

SPEAKER_06 16:18

And I think I'd add to that, Louisa, when you come onto the program or when you listen to the lovely people you're gonna hear from in a moment, everybody is different who comes on the program. There's a certain criteria that you're gonna reach to get onto the program. But then once you get on the program, you will see that some of the people on the program are more experienced than you. It doesn't matter. Their experience is different. You will learn from one another and you will all make progress. But you won't all end up at the same place. You won't all end up doing the same thing, and that's jolly good because we don't want everyone to be the same. It's a program that takes you from where you are further along a journey, and that will be different for each of you. We have a steering group that oversees it, and when we were meeting a couple of weeks ago, and I was saying we're recruiting, and one of the things I said was you're gonna have to go and tap people on the shoulder. Because that point, Louisa, you just made, people sometimes think I'm not good enough. And actually, you sometimes need somebody to tell you, well, I hope that happens for you, but it might not. Let's just apply anyway. If you look at it and think this is me, you don't need someone to tap you on the shoulder. But if you're listening to this and it's not you, but you can think of someone else, could you be the tapper, please? Could you just go just go tap on someone's shoulder? Give them that little bit of confidence to have a look at it and to apply.

SPEAKER_07 17:43

And actually you've mentioned a couple of times that there's people here that are gonna talk to us. So your esteemed guests are people that have been on this leadership course, and we're gonna bring them in now so they can talk about that. And Fiona, I'm gonna hand over to you actually. If you could talk to them, that would be really lovely.

SPEAKER_06 17:58

Brilliant. So we have four people, three of whom have been on and completed the Leadership Scholarship program, and one who is in the midst of enjoying it at the moment. So I'm gonna get them all to introduce themselves. So we'll start with Sarah Dennis. Who are you? Well, Sarah, but a little more. And what is your role, Sarah?

SPEAKER_09 18:25

Hi, my name's Sarah Dennis. I'm RE lead at a small one-form entry school in Staffordshire, and I teach RE from nursery to year six every week. I run a local affiliated group for Natre. I am Community Academy Trust's networking lead across my mat. I'm a Natray exec member and I'm an ITT trainer for a different mat, which I did this morning.

SPEAKER_06 18:48

So, Sarah, I'm not sure how you get that on one line. Um, that's a great description. Um follow that, everybody. Katie, could you follow that for me?

SPEAKER_04 18:58

I'm not sure. I have now, after being on the leadership programme, what some people might quite pretentiously on LinkedIn call a portfolio career. So my main role is as a primary curriculum lead for a large multi-academy trust. That role started as an RE-specific role, but now I support our schools across curriculum subjects. I'm just a massive curriculum nerd. I've recently joined the RE hubs team as the lead for East Anglia, in just in January, actually, so I'm getting my head around that job at the moment. And I also do some independent RE consultancy and writing. Thank you, Katie. Jake?

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Hello. So my name is Jake Womack. I am a secondary head of department, but also an RE consultant. I do lots of RE networks across the beautiful, wonderful, lovely north of England and seem to keep expanding, not just personally, although that's true too, but across the north of England in the amount of contact and training and networks that we deliver. So I may not have as many accolades as Sarah, but I'm certainly just as busy.

SPEAKER_06 19:59

Thank you, Jake. And Neil, Neil, who is on year two of the Leadership Scholarship programme at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah, I'm Neil Duncarf. I'm the Ori lead in a special school in Cheshire that is primarily for people who have autism and related learning difficulties. I've been there quite a while now, over ten years. Like most people who work in SEN schools, I teach across a big range of subjects. I wasn't an RE specialist when I started. My degree was business and finance. So was my PGCE. So I didn't think I was an expert at RE, and that's just come over time. And I'll talk a bit about that if I get the opportunity, about how that's developed with me personally.

SPEAKER_06 20:55

So Neil, you're what we call a teacher with other specialisms. And so not just RE, but other things as well. Thank you, all of you. I'm gonna go back to Sarah. She has the joy of going first. I might not make you go first all the time, Sarah. So, how for you, you graduated, if that's the right word, you left the leadership scholarship program last year, although you do keep trying to say you're on year three, but there is not a year three. How has taking part in it shaped you and transformed your development as a leader?

SPEAKER_09 21:27

I just can't imagine. Well, I didn't imagine when I started doing it, where it would lead me to. And it has opened so many doors, working with so many different people. It's a huge opportunity. I can't express how much it's transformed, how confident I am, leading training, speaking in public. I'd never written an article in my life, and I've now written articles and for books, and it's not what you expect, but it's what you need that you didn't know you needed by people. Who have got your back and they'll go, try this, see what how it goes. And it was the biggest adventure ever, and it's just been amazing. And I miss it terribly.

SPEAKER_06 22:12

We still talk to you, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. Katie, it's a little longer ago for you. You left in, or you're going to be able to tell me when you left, but for you as well. How has it shaped or transformed your development as a leader?

SPEAKER_04 22:29

Well, I was one of the very fortunate people to be in the very first sort of pilot of the program. So I started in 2018 doing what was just the year of it to start with at that point, and I was lucky enough to be able to get the second year of it a couple of years later when the programme had been developed a bit further. So before I joined the programme, I was, I'd say, a fairly confident primary RE leader. I'd been leading RE across our quite small local trust in our area that I worked in at the time. But there didn't really seem to be anywhere else to go in my career if I wanted to carry on in RE. And I think that's quite a common thing, particularly in primary, that there's no career progression in specific subjects. You have to join SLT to climb the ladder, which just takes people away from their subject specialisms. So one day, out of the blue, I received a golden email from Jan Maguire inviting me to join the pilot for the programme in its first iteration, which was then called Revitalize. And things just changed so rapidly under her mentorship. So I joined our local SACRA, which before that had just seemed like this distant thing that though I was aware of what it did, I didn't think that was for me. Under her encouragement, I was elected to the NATRA executive, and I also worked as the NATRA East Anglian Regional Ambassador. So things kind of changed extremely quickly for me. I was still working in school at the time and just doing all these extra things on top. The different areas of professional development in the program prepared me for the national curriculum lead role that I took on later on, and the writing, which has been really important as well, and sort of the further national leadership, which I now do as part of Ariac, that's the Association of Religious Education, Inspectors, Advisors and Consultants.

SPEAKER_06 24:19

Thank you, Katie. To you, Jake. So, same question. How's it shaped or transformed your development as a leader?

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Gosh, yeah. Well, I remember feeling at the time of applying, and I think I'd listened to it was an RE podcast on this at the time, where it was likened to Alice in Wonderland getting too big for the house. So I was kind of there feeling like I was too big for the house. I can't remember who said that, but it stuck with me. And I didn't really know where I was going, because it's like, all right, I'm too big for the house, but where am I actually going? I don't actually know. And so working with those expert mentors and completing those three six years reviews of our practice were exceptionally helpful. I mean, it's it's few and far between when you do an exercise like that. And that was great for just working out, okay, where are my strengths, but actually where the gaps were in my experience. And so we were able to build on those strengths, pulling people together, running events, networks, those kinds of things that I do, but explore those areas where I had less experience. And I'm sure that those on the course would echo that same sentiment. For me, it was the research where I didn't have that experience, and I remember being absolutely petrified of the thought of it, thinking, like we've said just a little while ago, that this is something for clever people. And yet that ended up being one of the most fun and beneficial things that I did. And the Thinkfest project that I was busy researching, where we had 150 plus kids doing a taste a day in philosophy, looking to see if we could increase sort of interest and impact, get more kids interested in taking it A level and beyond. We're doing that again, and we're actually using the findings from the first project that we did. We're making those changes and seeing if we can increase that impact. So, in terms of the way that it's been transformational, is that actually research now is just something that I do as part of being a leader in RE. I wouldn't have done that without the programme, I wouldn't have felt capable of doing that. So it was through the help of those mentors that allowed me to unlock that, and that's something that I use in my leadership all the time. I love how Fiona was just talking there about being the tapper because that's how it all began, actually. I got tapped, and actually I get to do a little bit of the tapping now as well. So I've just recommended a few people for the programme, and it feels like we've almost gone full circle that we're now replicating what happened to us and hoping that other people will benefit in the same way that we did.

SPEAKER_06 26:29

Thank you, Jake. There's so much on pick from that. That scaffolding that supported you to do the hard thing that you then found the most interesting. And what you've just said about being able to say to people you can do this, that's exactly what we want from the programme. We want to get people to a place where they are supporting and leading and influencing other people in their area. And I hope you can hear from what people have said so far that that's what they are able to do. So for you, Neil, it's slightly different, but you're still on the program. So you're halfway through, or just a little bit more than halfway through. Do you think you can give us any examples yet about how it's changed you, shaped you, transformed you as a leader?

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yeah, definitely. I've changed a lot. I didn't think I was an RE specialist, so I always felt out of place. And I think that's what I got massively out of the first year was that realisation that actually people do want to listen to what I've got to say, and that over time, okay, academically my degree isn't religion or philosophy, but over time I've gained that RE expertise. And for me, coming out of that feeling of that imposter syndrome has made such a massive difference. My confidence in my ability to talk about the subject has changed massively, and that's down to combination of how the course is structured. My two mentors who can't start talking about enough, they've just been amazing people. And that combined with the community of practice and the community that we've formed as a group using WhatsApp, it has become an an amazing group of people who I've found that think the way that I do, talk the way that I do. And just feeling part of that group has been an amazing feeling as well. I've got friends now that are going to be friends for life.

SPEAKER_06 28:42

Thank you, Neil. You've really picked out some of the key things there. I think you heard Neil talk about voice. I think you heard Neil talk about the building of his confidence and the expertise that he realizes he's got. And actually, Neil knows this but didn't say it. You know, he's quite unique in having a special needs experience and RE experience and being able to talk about that. Your voice is so valuable. And what I hope is this programme will continue to give you those opportunities. And great shout-out for the mentors. We have an amazing team of mentors that are individually matched to people.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

I think you just give me the clue then that there could be a year three for some of us.

SPEAKER_06 29:30

Yes. Two-year programme, everybody. Two-year programme. These hangers on, we've we've got to move them on to something else. So, Jake, you're going to answer this next one first. So Sarah doesn't steal all the good answers. Um, what if you could pick out one or two things that you found most valuable about the programme, what would they be?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Do you know what? It's really hard, isn't it, to whittle it down to just a few things because the whole programme was just absolutely fantastic. And I agree with Sarah that it very much was an adventure, and we we don't want the adventure to end, and in some ways it hasn't. Jumping off a little bit of what Neil said, I really, really loved the friendships that we made with those people that we were studying with, and that is something that continues. We're still all in contact on WhatsApp, and actually, I've booked Azan for my network when we're in summer. So actually, it's not only, I think, provided friendships who are supportive, who encourage you to do things, but also you can utilize their expertise in delivering high-quality RE as well, and draw on each other's strengths. So I think that's a really lovely thing to have drawn out of the programme. I will say that the reading groups were absolutely brilliant fun. Real challenge, certainly didn't find them easy. It's not something that I would have naturally gravitated towards, but the understanding that they gave me of the RE world, the bird's eye picture that they gave me of what's going on have been invaluable in the way that I deploy support in the areas that I work. I can't say I've continued to do reading in such depth, but I feel that I'm quite confident and would be capable of doing it should I need to.

SPEAKER_06 31:15

Jake, you've only just left the programme. There's opportunity to do more reading. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

You could email me some.

SPEAKER_06 31:21

He'll be after everybody. I think you're enabled to do it yourself, Jake. Katie, same thing for you. Couple of things you found most valuable about the programme.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

I'd certainly reiterate that there are absolutely so many things which were valuable about it. My top two, I would say, were having a professional mentors and the community of practice. But in terms of mentors, I just didn't know what the RE community had had to offer until my mentor opened my eyes. So the introductions, the wise words, the encouragement and the occasional reminder to learn how to say no, which really, really is such an important skill for all of us. Having said that, when you asked me to be on the podcast, obviously I said yes. The community of practice, really, as Jake said with the reading groups, is just brilliant for encouraging me to read things that I wouldn't otherwise have made time for, or probably been able to engage with on my own. It's also that place to make those connections and those friends and colleagues that are all over the country that you just wouldn't necessarily have an opportunity to meet in other circumstances.

SPEAKER_06 32:33

Thank you, Katie. Sarah, have they left you anything? Yeah. What for you are the most valuable things on the program?

SPEAKER_09 32:40

You've got to admit that everything is valuable on the whole program. So to pick out the most valuable is really hard because there was nothing in the program that I haven't learnt from. And that's really important that people understand that if they're going to join the program, nothing is dull or everything is really exciting and learning from. I really enjoyed shadowing people because I'm quite isolated where I am geographically and my role. And I went down to Hampshire to work with an RE advisor and learnt so much from what they do in Hampshire and from her. I spent a day in London with Claire Clinton looking at all the amazing projects she does down where she lives, and it just opened my eyes to what can happen, and it was brilliant. And I I miss my peers and I miss the reading group, and I never thought I'd say I'd miss the reading group because I did find it challenging, but I learned so much. My mentors were brilliant both years. So can we ask an easier question, please?

SPEAKER_06 33:39

Because it was just fantastic. So Sarah refused to answer the question, and it was just everything. Thank you, Sarah. I will ask you in a moment, Neil, only part way through, but I just thought it was a good time to point out all those things. It was actually quite helpful, Sarah. So the mentoring, the community of practice, the reading groups, the e-learning modules, the visiting different groups, whether that's Sacray or whether that's national groups, the doing a little bit of looking into your own practice, research reading groups, shadowing, writing blogs, although no one said that was their favourite thing. But Sarah loved everything, so it's okay. Writing blogs, speaking to groups. I've probably missed something out, but all of those are opportunities that you get across the two years. And I'm not sure there's another program in another subject that offers all of that. So Neil, you're part way through this, and I hope you've had kind of a sense of the excitement of some of the other things that are to come in your second year. But if you could pick out, I'm only allowing you one thing, Neil, because you're only part way through. If you could pick out one thing that has been most valuable so far, what is it and why?

SPEAKER_00 34:58

I can sum it up in one statement, and I can quite honestly say that in my career as a teacher, this has been the best CPD I've ever done.

SPEAKER_06 35:09

Thank you, Neil. That'll do. So the next question you've kind of hinted at actually, you've already answered this, but I think it would be good to sum it up a little bit. Where has your journey taken you since you've completed the programme? So I'm gonna let you off this one, Neil. So, Jake, how have you taken your next step in your career? Are you doing exactly the same role as you were two and a bit years ago?

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Do you know what? Didn't anticipate that I would be where I am presently. So still doing lots of networks, though I've expanded and I'm doing lots more. I'm nearly gonna need another hand to count those. Advising on additional sacres, and now I'm co-directing an educational consultancy company. So that is very exciting. I'm learning all about running businesses and contracts and things like that, but the work is superb. I love our values, and I just love working with teachers to get the best out of them. So never saw that coming in a million years, but here I am. I feel like I've arrived. Although, actually, I will say that I'm very much open to doing lots of other stuff as well. So I think that's part of the programme, isn't it? That you think, I don't know what's going to come next, but let's have it.

SPEAKER_06 36:25

So, Jake, are you still in the classroom as well?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

I'm still in the classroom as well, so I get around. Just a couple of days in the classroom running a department and PSHE and all the usual stuff, and this as well. So, yeah, running an eight-day week.

SPEAKER_06 36:36

So, Jake is where he was and is far beyond where he was. And actually, I think that's a nice example of sort of still doing something that is similar, very much with your feet in the classroom, but actually being shown there's a way of doing more than one thing. Katie, I'll go to you next. Again, you've spoken a little bit about this, and it's been seven or eight years since you started, and you've made some steps too.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

I think I would say that I've probably said it too many times, that I would have left education altogether if a leadership scholarship program hadn't shone a light really on a career path that I just couldn't see. I didn't know it was there. So eventually my path led me out of the classroom. That um, although that's obviously not the case for everyone. The program made me consider national policy and the politics behind a lot of the very unusual structures in the RE community and made me really think about the history and to start to question things. It also really made me think much more deeply about curriculum and what a great RE curriculum looks like in the classroom and as a design and to think much more strategically about the RE community as a whole. So I'm now working with numerous people across the country and I genuinely love my job. There's very few days when I sort of don't want to get out of bed in the morning because I'd rather just turn the alarm off. And we are now on the cusp of a national curriculum, which was actually the subject of one of my very first blogs while I was on the programme. So it feels like, although I'm not one of those people who are up there with my sort of name on the things necessarily happening at the moment, I feel like I have had a role in that and I'm still part of that consulting process, and it's really exciting. I'm also at a point where I feel I owe a great deal to the whole RE community. And one of the ways that I'm sort of paying that forward is by supporting others in their careers now and in my co-vice chair role in ARIAC.

SPEAKER_06 38:40

Thanks, Katie, and just a brilliant story that you're still here, that we would have lost you. And you might not actually be teaching children regularly anymore, but that leadership role that you have stepped into in lots of different ways, but particularly as you say, leading in Ariak, I think is so important. So, Sarah, you had the longest list of things when we when we started that are all things that you've moved into, but I think it's really important you're still in the classroom.

SPEAKER_09 39:09

Yeah, I still do my day job and still love it. And I was a bit worried when I left the leadership program that everything would disappear. It hasn't at all. So I've been able to write a chapter for an international ebook. I've developed a load of resources for a different map as well as my own. I'm speaking at strictly RE, which I'm excited about, also quite scared, but I'm up for it. I actually got to meet with my MP, which was really huge for me because I've been asking him for a meeting for a very long time and being able to talk to him passionately about nationally what we need for RE. I'm writing for professional reflections. If you've got your RE Today magazine for this term, my article's in there about helping with the process of spirited art, and I got to help write case studies for a book that was for lots of different subjects. So it was nice to work with people outside of the RE community as well. But it's been absolutely fantastic. And I don't know what's coming next because who knows? But it'll be fun.

SPEAKER_06 40:12

Thank you, Sarah. The connections you make allow you the opportunity to do all sorts of different things, and they won't be the same for everybody. Not everybody gets to write a chapter in a book. Although Neil is, even though he's uh only just finished year one of the programme, he's done that already. But there will be different opportunities, and opportunities that sometimes you might want to say no to, although, as Katie says, some of us are really bad at that. But again, it's about developing you to the next stage. It's about finding what your strengths are, and the areas where you need a bit more development, giving you that, but giving you those connections, giving you the voice, giving you the confidence, giving you the opportunities. Now, my last question, and Neil gets to start on this one first. Why should people apply to the leadership scholarship program, Neil?

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Multiple reasons. I can't think of a valid reason as to why not to. Even if you're one of those people who don't think you're good enough, apply for it. I myself applied twice. So the first year I didn't get selected, but I did ask for feedback and I had some fantastic feedback from Clum St. Gabriels, which meant I could act on that feedback during the following year to then reapply again. So even before you're actually on the course, Clum St. Gabriels will provide you with support to get on it. So it starts way back before you're even on the course in my mind.

SPEAKER_06 41:49

Thank you, Neil. Katie, uh why should people apply to the Leadership Scholarship Programme?

SPEAKER_04 41:55

Again, why not? There are very few fully funded, subject-specific long-term CPD opportunities in education, and this is unique, I believe. The programme is absolutely what you make of it, and it's designed to fit around your interests and needs. The steering group on the programme actually saw things in me that I didn't even recognise in myself, and you may not recognise yourself or your career when you graduate from it. Thank you, Katie. Sarah, why should people apply?

SPEAKER_09 42:24

Well, I felt a little bit like the hobbit leaving the Shire when I applied because I didn't know where I was going, and I just felt like I didn't know what was out there. And for anyone who thinks they know the RE community, you do. We're wonderful. And there's so much out there, and if I can do it, anyone can. I'm a little primary school teacher in a little school in Lichfield. It shapes your life in a way that you could never imagine, opens so many doors, extends your learning into things you would never do. And I really miss the leadership programme. And if I could apply again, and Fiona still, I'm asking, can I apply again? No. She's saying no, everyone. But I'm thinking that's not a solid no. I'll work on it.

SPEAKER_06 43:08

We have an alumni group as long as we do. That WhatsApp community is very powerful. They still all talk to one another. Jake, you get the final word on this. I'm not sure whether that's wise or not. Why should people apply? Come on.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

So I I think if you if you feel like you've got more to offer, if you're ready for an RE adventure, if you want to make some great friends and some great connections and find your place in the RE world, then this is the programme for you. And I feel like I've found my place in it. I think the other members of the course have found their place in it. Brilliant. And there's a place for you too.

SPEAKER_06 43:50

Finding your place, finding your voice, finding your community, finding your way out of the Shire as a hobbit. Whether you're a primary school teacher. Teacher or a secondary school teacher, apply now.

SPEAKER_07 44:04

It's so lovely listening to all of you because I think what it really highlights is the diversity of pathways into RE, pathways onto the leadership course, and pathways out of it. And so I think that's the beauty, I think, of the RE community anyway. And I think it's really celebrated here. So it was really lovely to listen to all of you. Thank you so much. And I I love that point that this is so unique. And I think we've said it a few times, this doesn't happen in other subjects. This is something that is so unique to RE, and it makes me so proud to be part of this community and part of this network. So thank you for sharing. There are some people that have done the course that weren't able to be on this recording today. So they've just voice noted us a little summary of their thoughts. So we're just going to listen to those now.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

Hi, my name's Charlotte Newman, and I'm the trust lead for religious studies at Archway Learning Trust. My work focuses on curriculum development, leadership across multiple secondary schools, and supporting high-quality religion and worldviews education across the trust. The Clumb St. Gabriel's Leadership Scholarship Programme has fundamentally shifted how I see myself as a leader. Through the mentoring, networking and research, I gained the confidence to move into multi-academy trust leadership. I became more open to engaging with research, more skilled influencing policy, and more confident in leading curriculum change at scale. The mentoring in particular helped me clarify my career direction and supported my transition into a trust-wide leadership role. The mentoring provided me with challenge, guidance, and a critical friendship. This one-to-one mentoring really meant that I was able to share my ideas about my curriculum development with somebody that was going to be able to offer insights and ensure that I could make the best decisions for my trust. The community of practice sessions enabled collaboration, sharing, and professional support amongst the other people on the leadership programme. Through the research project in my second year, I was able to continue to curriculum develop through looking at a religion and worldviews approach and its engagement in our trust. I also was able to get more involved with networking and advocacy. This included engagement with MPs. Through the leadership programme, I was lucky enough to be invited to represent Nature at the Labour Party conference a couple of years ago, and this allowed me to gain confidence in speaking to MPs and lobby for our subject. It also meant that I've since invited many MPs into our schools in my trust. One in particular was somebody that was quite hard for us to reach, someone that my principal in the school has been trying to engage for many years. And we finally got him into school to speak to our sixth form students and have now begun fostering a brilliant relationship with him that we can ensure that he sees brilliant religion and worldviews education as well as support our school. I've also been able to take part in national debates, such as the debate about the inclusion of RE in the national curriculum. I was invited to write a blog post on this for RE Online as a part of their spotlight week on the national curriculum to give my perspective as a math lead. I also set up my own local group as a part of the leadership programme in my first year, which helped me to develop the skills that I needed to facilitate cross-phrase CPD, which gave me the confidence to apply for the role that I am in now. I also was able to write a blog on this for RA Online. So these experiences gave me both practical leadership skills as well as the confidence to share my work more publicly. Since completing the programme, I secured my post as trust lead for RS at Archway Learn and Trust. And without this, I really would not have had the confidence to ever apply for it. I've therefore led major curriculum development, which is now having an impact on thousands of children across Nottingham and Derby. I've spoken at many national conferences, such as Strictly RA, about my work on teaching contentious issues. And I've also struck up a partnership working with the Princess Trust Institute, who are now introducing RE courses for the first time, and I've delivered CPD for them up and down the country. I've also written a professional reflection article about how I've developed my curriculum, which is coming out in the January edition of RE Today. I was also asked to contribute to a book on secondary RE in action by Joe Kennerd coming up in a few months. I've joined My Sacray in Nottingham and has been a part of the working party to write our next local agreed syllabus. And I've been involved in discussions with the Religious Education Council for England and Wales about GCSE and A-level reforms on the back of the curriculum and assessment review. Therefore, the programme has directly enabled my progression. It has enabled me to develop leadership skills, contribute to professional networks, and give me the confidence to influence beyond my own classroom or school. I really believe people should apply for this because it is subject-specific CPD that we just don't often get. As leaders, I believe that we often neglect our own development to look after the others in our team. And often school leadership doesn't meet our subject-specific needs. So if this is you, the leadership scholarship program is perfect for you. It provides high-quality mentoring and professional challenge. It builds confidence to engage with research policy and curriculum reform. It opens doors to career progression and leadership opportunities. And also I've come away with a great network of like-minded professionals. We still have our group chat after the programme has finished. We're always sharing with each other what we're up to and sharing best practice with each other. And it's been brilliant to come away with people that I can also lean on who have gone through this process with me. It genuinely is a transformative experience for anyone serious about developing as a subject leader and wanted to make a wider impact in our RE community.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

My name is Saima, and I'm a full-time RE lead at a five-form entry junior school in Surrey. I'm part of the Surrey Sacray and I'm the local groups officer for Natrey. Taking part in two years of the leadership program has got to have been the most instrumental and the best thing that I've ever done. It's really helped to shape my role as a leader. Believe it or not, I used to be shy, and I don't think I had much faith in myself. So by taking part in the leadership program, I developed a greater self-belief and it helped me to push me out of my comfort zone. I've since spoken at numerous national and global conferences as well as local events. And this is something that I would never have done before. I loved being mentored on the leadership program because I had two of the best people. In my first year, I was mentored by Claire Clinton, and in the second year, I was mentored by Jan McGuire. And there are two amazingly powerful women who are just powerhouses in the world of RE. It was an honor to have the most amazing people guide me and offer great advice as well as to push me and help me develop that self-belief that I think I always needed. I loved going to Ariac events, conferences, and I loved meeting new people and expanding my network. I loved the chance to conduct school-based research in the second year of my leadership program. And Jan was brilliant at giving me the boost that I needed. She was always at the end of the phone, giving me advice and giving me positive feedback on how I was doing. And I never previously thought that research was something that I could do. But at that point in my career, I had been teaching for about a good 20 years. And I thought research wasn't for me, it's just something that academics do in universities. I was a school teacher. I had enough work to do. I didn't need more. But it was a blessing in disguise that I had the time during the second year of COVID to do some school-based research. And I had a lot of reading time. And actually, it's made me love research now. And I never ever thought that I would say that. But I think one of the biggest things that the leadership program did for me was to give me a real boost at my age. And in my career, I've now been teaching for over 30 years. And I'm a certain age, I'm not going to say what. And I thought that I would see my career out by, you know, staying in the classroom, you know, dipping in and out of leadership through being in the the SLT here and there, leading my subject, that was enough work. But no, it this has helped me realize that I've got a brain in my head and I'm gonna use it, and I'm gonna use it to the benefit of the pupils that I teach. I can get quite emotional when I think about this actually. Since completing the leadership programme, I've co-founded a race in education film club with another two teachers and an academic. And it's now been running for five years, and we've dipped in and out of research. We're actually thinking about putting a paper together at the moment. And again, that's something that I never would have done before. Being part of this, I'm invited to speak at global conferences, and again, that's something that never ever would have happened before. I think people should apply to be part of the leadership program because it's an absolutely fabulous way of developing your confidence. It can help to shape your future. It gives you opportunities to work with some of the best RE people in the country, as well as giving you opportunities that you wouldn't get otherwise. I would say you would be crazy not to take up the opportunity to be part of this leadership program because it's definitely without doubt 100% being the best thing that I think I've ever done in my career. So if you're listening to this, definitely give it a good thought and sign up. Good luck.

SPEAKER_08 54:32

Hi, my name is Ruth Marks, and I work remotely now in the world of RE and PSHE in supporting schools, mat chains, sacras, local authorities in all things to do with religious education. And at the moment I am the co-vice chair of ARIAC, which is the Association of Religious Education Inspectors, Advisors and Consultants, as well as part of the conference planning team for that. I'm also one of the writers for the Oak National Academy at GCSC, Key Stage 3 and currently core RE lessons, as well as other different roles that I do as well. I trained as an RE teacher in Durham University, and then I continued teaching in London, in Wortham Forest and Tower Hamlets, so in total I taught for about twenty years with a couple of breaks for different things in the classroom, in religious education and other subjects, and then I got involved with my local sacrate through the introduction of the wonderful Deborah Weston, who saw something in me and wanted me to get involved with the borough. So through being involved with the Tower Hamlet Sacrate, I saw kind of how RE was just beyond my classroom and in the borough. And I say this because it was because of that really that happened all about ten years ago, that I started to think about wanting to be involved with RE more broadly than that, and bigger than kind of my school, bigger than Tower Hamlets, and sort of what national things or what other areas could I help support religious education in. So I'd been involved with that by setting up the Islam at A Level GCC and more Facebook group and teach meets with the wonderful Shami Rahman. And that was something where I saw that there was a need, because we needed it in our school where we were teaching Islam at A-Level, but it also kind of gave me a taste of networking with RE teachers beyond my borough across the country and the sort of need and where I could fit in doing something in a kind of bigger sense, where I thought that my passions and some of the things that I could do could be handy for others. And then this also coincided with me needing to move countries, because I promised my husband that we would move one day and that day kind of came for different reasons. And I was a little bit heartbroken that I was having to say goodbye to this amazing, wonderful subject that I love dearly with my heart. There's no religious education in France and I can't yet speak French. So I was kind of heartbroken, but then saw the leadership programme advert, and it just seemed to chime with me that it could possibly show me a way that I could continue doing what I was doing, and that I had already sort of started but didn't quite know like what direction or who to speak to or how to find out. And that's really what appealed to me about the leadership programme was that you know, you know, some people give that advice of like if you want to do something, look at the people who were already doing it and see what are they doing and how are they doing it and sort of get to know them and how did they do that through their pathway. Surround yourself with those people. That's really what I saw the leadership program being a possibility for, because of the people who are advertising it, the people involved with it, were people I like looked up to, already mentioned Deborah Weston as somebody, but there were all these people who I was thinking, well, how could I do that? Maybe there's something for me. And the leadership program really helped me do that, but not only just the mentoring part of it, which is obviously a big part of it, but also the fact that that's then coupled with the readings and the kind of understanding policy, understanding all the kind of political things, understanding the history of our subject again, going back to those texts that you may have done when you did your PGC if you've come through that route, and going back to like learning about the kind of history of our subject, where it has come from, where it may be going, and what role you might be able to have in that. So that's something that I really valued through the leadership programme. And it completely transformed, in a way, what I was doing, or it helped me to see what I could continue to do in a remote way. And I know many of the different positions that are available now could work remotely, but at that time we were just coming out of COVID and I could sort of see that it might be a possibility, but I didn't quite know how, and I didn't know who to turn to or how to find out how to do this. And so having my mentor, Jan Maguire's my first year, and the second year was Ed Pawson, was just absolutely life transformational. I call them my mentoring mum and dad because they really looked after me and really helped me see, like from my strengths, they saw something in me and what I could give and have really helped me to grow, I believe, and flourish. And I hope I am managing to give what I wanted to give to the RE community, even though I'm quite a few miles away where I am in France. So the thing I found the most valuable in the programme was it's kind of three parts. It's the mentorship, obviously, my mentorship, mum and dad, Jan and Ed, again, big shout out to you. Thank you so much for everything you've given me and continue to give me. Secondly, it would be the reading and the actual programme of what we did. Yes, it's hard, yes, you get to the evening and you're knackered and you you've got marking to do or you've got washing up to do, but you join the reading group, and oh my goodness, just carving out that time to have to like get back to what the subject is about and setting that time aside to read and talk together. But thirdly, it's the other people on the cohort with me who are continue to stay friends with me and we continue to have our WhatsApp and speak to each other and meet up at conferences. And yeah, it's like seeing old university friends almost again, you know, you've been through this experience together. So it really does give you the sense of community. Since I completed the programme, I've found ways and had the confidence to apply for certain roles and positions and get involved with many, many different projects. One of them being, I have to mention the Antaves Barnet Syllabus project, which is kind of still ongoing at the moment, different opportunities I've had to do with that, and I really love her approach to religious education as well, religion and worldviews. And also that then gave me the confidence to do things like Write for United Learning and then Oak National, and then do projects that have impacted Tower Hamlets, and I'm also involved in another project with Harangay. Yeah, so I think it's really transformed some of the things I had the confidence to go and apply to do and ways to like look for how to make things happen. I think you should apply to the leadership program if you are already doing some bits and pieces. Maybe you're already thinking a bit beyond your school, you're already thinking a bit beyond your borough or your mat. And seeing that there's a need out there, seeing that there's things you could do, you've got a passion for something that you know maybe needed or wanted in the climate we've got, particularly at this point, I think it'd be such an exciting time to be doing this programme when we've got the biggest change ever just on the horizon. So I think this would be a really powerful moment to be part of the leadership program and to be guided through whatever changes may come with a mentorship, mum or dad, and with that community of others around you. I think it could be an amazing time to do this. And I think if you are already doing some bits and pieces or connecting with people beyond your local area, beyond perhaps your setting, and you want to see how to branch out further, what need there might be and what you could give, then you would be the perfect person for the leadership programme. And please get in touch if you've got any questions, and I hope to see you at a conference or in an online meeting soon.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:19

Hello, my name is Debbie Yeomans. I'm a national RE advisor for RE today and the East Midlands hub lead for the RE hubs. I genuinely see the leadership program as the catalyst that enabled me to step into these roles. The program has completely transformed my development as a leader, mainly through the confidence it gave me to stretch myself. Because of the programme, I now work as an advisor and hub lead, roles that I would never have imagined myself growing into without the knowledge, drive, and the self-belief that the programme helped me to develop. The most valuable aspect for me was the exposure to both national and local contacts within the RE world, alongside a much deeper understanding of national development. Being connected to the wider professional landscape helped me to see where I could contribute and where I could grow. Since completing the programme, it's been fundamental in helping me take the next step in my career, moving from being classroom-based to advising on a national level. It gave me the confidence and the credibility to step into those spaces and to have a voice. I would really encourage people to apply for the Leadership Scholarship Programme because it offers far more than leadership training. It gives you contact, support, knowledge, and real opportunities to find your voice within the RE world and develop in the direction that's right for you.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:05

I think what we've done now is really celebrated the course in itself. I think what is going to be really helpful if it's to sort of do the sort of practical side of things in terms of like next steps. If there's someone listening that's been inspired by what people have said, what they can do. So I'm just going to ask Fiona some questions so that people are really clear of what they can do next. If there is someone listening who is interested in just finding out a bit more, what's the first thing they can do?

SPEAKER_06 1:03:32

Well, the first thing they can do is go to the website. You can get at it through the arionline website, www.reonline.org.uk, or on our front page, we've got a little click-through. Or you can go directly to the Cullum St. Gabriels page, www.cstg.org.uk. Have a read because on there it has a participant booklet with all the details in. But it also has details of a webinar that we are running on February the 10th between 5.30 and 6.30. There may be voices you get to hear again there, but there will be space for you to come and hear about how to apply in more detail. Hear from people who are on the programme. We've got some mentors speaking, we've got some alumni speaking, some year one people, some year two people. We've got all sorts of different voices that come with your questions. When you look on our website, as well as putting a place on the free webinar, you will find case studies. There's about 12, I think, case studies, some lovely little images of people. And just them talking about what they thought was important. And you might find that inspiring as well. Information for your head teacher on there, all sorts of different bits of information.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:58

So once they've done that, let's just talk about the deadlines first and then we'll talk about the application process. When is the deadline for applications for this round of the Leadership Scholarship programme?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:09

4 p.m. on Friday, the 27th of March. Okay. So you've got a while, but don't stick it to the back of your head because actually you need to sign up for the webinar to find out some more. You need to read, you need to have a chat to your head teacher in order to get it in by four o'clock on Friday, the 27th of March.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:30

Brilliant. And I'm just going to put all of these links and all of this information in the show notes. So if you aren't in a position where you can write any of this down because you're in the car or whatever, it will all be on the show notes, so you can go to that to find out the information. So you've talked about there there's an application form and you have to get permission from your head teacher. Is there anything else we need to know about the application process?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:52

Yeah, so a form, you can get at that from the website. Your head teacher has to sign up to say you can do it. The reason for that is, do you know what? We're investing quite a lot in you. And we want them to know about what's going on and to understand what the commitment you are putting into this program as a leader. And as a head, they're going to get lots out of you as a result of what you learn on this program. So application form, head teacher agreement form, one reference. And then this year we're asking for a lovely extra thing. So what we've found, the way we decide who's going to get the 10 places on the program is, of course, as a steering group to look at all the applications. Well, there's only 10 places, and we're going to get more than 10 applicants. And not everybody's best way of expressing themselves is on an application form. So we're also asking for a short film clip. Now, you don't have to be Steven Spielberg for this. You just use your phone. It can be as well, I'd rather it wasn't wobbly, but it can be as wobbly as you like. We're not looking at how good you are at creating a film clip. We're looking at hearing your voice. We're looking at seeing how you are. You've heard the enthusiasm of this group of people here for the program. And we're asking you to answer a question. All this detail is on the website, but it's what excites you about potentially being on the Leadership Scholarship Programme. And how does it fit with your RE journey? You can't be Steven Spielberg because you've only got a couple of minutes to do that in. Any longer than that, we won't have time to listen to them all. So all of those different things by 4 p.m. on Friday, March the 27th.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:44

Amazing. Once they've done the application, when will they be informed in terms of whether they've been successful or not?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:51

So you might have noted that that application date for some people is the beginning of the Easter holidays. It will depend, Easter holidays are different in all sorts of places. After the Easter holidays, the steering group meet up together. Having had the Easter holidays, to read all your applications and to watch little video clips. And then we meet towards the end of April and make the decision. And so that means we can tell you whether or not you have been successful. So everybody will hear by early May. And we will have to let some people down because there are only 10 places. But as Neil says, we will give you some feedback and let you know why you weren't able to be selected. And if there are things that you might be able to develop that mean you could come on the program next year or in five years' time, then we will try and tell you about that.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:46

And then if they are successful and they're here back in May to say they've been successful, when will that actually start?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:52

Oh, and it feels like such a long time because it doesn't start till September. But we need it to be that much earlier because once we have accepted you, then we've got to look at our entire mentor group and go, right, who's going to be the right mentor? So the programme officially will start in September, but you will have a one-to-one meetup with me in late June, early July before the end of school term, in readiness for when you begin the program and meet your mentor and meet the rest of the group, which happens in early September. And although most of it all happens online, one of the most exciting things is that, and poor old Katie didn't get this, we do have a day face to face in the first term in London, which I think really cements the group as a group. So that's a lovely thing that happens in that first autumn term that you're part of the program.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:48

That's so lovely. And actually, I know there is somebody listening, and the one concern that they have is the time commitment, and they're worried about having to fit this in with all their other commitments. I know it's impossible, but can you give us a ballpark in terms of how much time they'll need to commit to?

SPEAKER_06 1:10:07

So in year one, you get 12 hours of mentoring. You have five communities of practice, and so that's about seven and a half hours. So we've reached 19 and a half hours if my math is any good. In the first year, you also have a series of reading groups that roughly adds up to another seven hours. So we've got 26 and a half hours so far. As well as that, you will need some time to do some reflecting and thinking and prepping for some of those meetings. You'll need to read the thing we're discussing in the reading group. In year one, you'll do some e-learning courses as well, and you'll have the opportunity to go to a couple of groups to present. So I think I'm talking about 40 hours. But the trouble is, it depends. Some people will do more, some people will do less. But it's not 40 hours in one go. It is very much spread over the year. And important to say that almost all of it is outside of school time. So it tends to be in the early evenings, which can be equally difficult because we have lives, it turns out, as well as working jobs. So that is something that you have to consider, with the exception of sort of the day when we are all together in London. When you get into the second year, and most people, but not all, go on to the second year. There is slightly more reading group time. You don't do the e-learning courses, and you're doing that research project. And as Sarah mentioned, there's that opportunity to do some shadowing. Nobody did quite as much shadowing as Sarah, though. Normally that's a little less than Sarah described. So I think it's a little more in the second year, I would say. Does that sound about right from those of you who've they all nodded listeners at that point?

SPEAKER_07 1:12:10

So it almost works out around an hour a week on average, but not necessarily an hour every week, but just on average, you're looking at between sort of 40 and 50 hours over the year. And from experience, because I've done the course, it's completely manageable. It doesn't feel like this big onerous drain on your time at all. And because it's so impactful, actually, that time that you spend it helps you do your other roles more efficiently. If that's the only thing that's stopping you, please don't let it, because I think in reality it's really manageable to do. Although you have to be committed and you have to be disciplined. So I think that's kind of everything we need to know about the course, unless there's anything else you want to say, Fiona, that you haven't said already.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:54

I think I want to say, go and look. Go and look and see if this is you. And if you're listening and you're thinking it's not, go and look and work out who else you should be telling that this is them. There'll be somebody, if you're a head teacher, if you're a governor, there'll be somebody you can say this is for you. So take a look.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:18

Amazing. Thank you so much. Just as we close, what I'd like to do is to ask all of our guests just to their final thoughts, so just something they'd like to leave the listeners with. So I'm just gonna go around clockwise on my screen. So, Jake, can you start?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:30

So I've got to honestly say, reflecting on the course, it's one of the best things I've ever done. It felt like a bit of a big risk to be taken. It felt like it was gonna be a lot to deal with. It has been transformative, it has been brilliant, and I'd do it all again and again and again.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:47

Thank you, Jake. Neil.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:50

Don't think about it too much, just go for it.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:54

Thank you, Neil. I definitely need to hear that because I'm such an overthinker. Katie.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:59

I'm gonna finish by saying thank you so much to Callum St Gabriels for offering such an amazing opportunity for people in the RE community. There are so many of us who just would not be doing the roles that we're doing without you.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:12

Brilliant. Thank you, Katie, for saying that. Sarah. I'm just glad I found my voice and I found this role because it's been a huge adventure and just lovely and just such an experience to be part of and still be part of and still chat with people all the time. It's just amazing.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:32

I reiterate that. I'd like to thank all my guests. So Fiona Moss, Neil Duncalf, Jake Romax, Sarah Dennis, Katie Gooch, thank you so much for giving up your Friday night to talk to the RE podcast. And thank you for being so passionate about something which is such a wonderful opportunity. And obviously, if you've got any more questions, if you're listening, listeners, please get in contact with me and I can put you in contact with Fiona Moss or you can contact her directly. My thanks to all my guests. My name is Louisa Jane Smith, and this has been the RE podcast. The podcast for those of you who think Hori is boring, but it's not. It helps us to be research engaged, curriculum engaged, politically engaged, and classroom engaged so that we can reach our full bespoke potential. But thank you so much for listening to us bore the life out of you. That was so cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:18

Hi, my name is Charlotte Newman and I am the Trust Lead for Religious Studies at the Archway Learning Trust. One of our schools, Alviston Moore Academy in Derby, are currently looking for a teacher of humanities. We are ideally looking for a religious studies specialist who is up for the challenge of helping the department transition from short course GCSE for all to full course GCSE for all. The department has a new head of humanities with exciting ideas and a passion to see religious studies succeed, which is shared by the whole senior leadership team at the school. I am currently rolling out an ambitious and refreshing curriculum across the trust that follows a religion and worldviews approach, ensuring all teachers receive subject-specific CPT to deliver this confidently. The closing date is the 9th of February. If you'd like more information, please email me on cnuman at archwaytrust.co.uk or check out our website www.archwaytrust.co.uk forward slash vacancies.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:17

This podcast is supported by reimagining education at reimaginingeducation.uk