Making Sound with Jann Klose
Making Sound with Jann Klose
Tormod Ringnes
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EPISODE 99: Tormod Ringnes is the supervising sound editor, re-recording mixer and sound designer for TIFF '23 feature Songs of Earth. He is based in Oslo, Norway. Songs of Earth is a documentary guided by the director's 84-year-old father and his relations to his Norwegian mountain home. The film travels high and wide for both majestic scenery, symphony, and story, and was recently selected as Norway’s entry into the International Feature category for the Oscars. His past projects also include Pirates of the Caribbean, Maleficent, Academy Award Winning Animated Feature Flee, partnerships with German filmmakers Thomas Aslan and Wim Wenders, video games like Battlefield 2042, Tribeca 2023 selection Laroy (Steve Zahn). instagram.com/tringnes
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Hi, Turmod, and what we're doing is making sound. Yes, we are.
SPEAKER_01And we're in. We're here with Tormod Ringness, who is calling in from Norway, I believe. This is making sound with Jan Klose. Episode 99. We're almost at that big 100. And my guest is Tormod Ringnes. And I'm I'm I'm probably pronouncing this wrong. He's Norwegian. I believe you're from Oslo originally. How are you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. I um yeah, I'm originally from Norway, Norway and Oslo, and uh I'm currently in Oslo now. And it's actually snowing outside.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you're in Oslo right now in Norway. Yeah. I love it. I love it. So let me let me uh just tell uh our listeners a little bit about you. Uh you are a uh sound editor, you're a sound designer and uh and an engineer and a re-recording mixer for a new feature called Songs of Earth, which is a documentary guided by the directors. I want to talk to you about the director, uh, 84-year-old father and his relations to his mountain home. Uh the film travels high and wide for both majestic scenery, symphony, and story, and was recently selected as Norway's entry into the international feature category for the Oscars. So I watched uh this documentary. Uh the uh your publicist or the publicist for the film sent me a um a screener, and it's absolutely mind-blowingly beautiful, this place. Thank you. Thank you. It unbelievable. And uh it's this is it's interesting, you know. When I was uh a teenager, I grew up in Germany as it I lived in Germany as a teenager, and we went on a one vacation to Norway. And I remember uh traveling uh through these fjords as a boy, as a teen, young teen, um, and seeing these it's it's just it's stunningly beautiful. And this uh town, this it's a very small town that is featured in this in this film um called Songs of Earth, Songs of Earth, not the Earth, but of Earth. And you you see this massive glacier massive of flowing into this uh um uh valley, uh if you will, and this uh lake, and then it continues uh down into a uh very sort small town with what looks like not that many people living in it.
SPEAKER_00No, it's more like a couple of families, a couple of families, yeah, extremely small. And and the directors tell tell me the name of the director. Uh uh her name is Margaret Olen. She's done a Margaret Olin. Margaret Olen. Yeah, Margaret Olin.
SPEAKER_01And this is her father who's 84, and her mother, who are featured in the documentary. Is that her mother? Yeah, who's with her? Yeah, and and it it shows a lot of photos from the uh uh the family, and uh the it it kind of it takes you on this sort of very visual um journey. It's very quiet, it's very peaceful, uh, it's very beautiful, and um it makes you kind of remember the it's it's about a return to nature. That's what I got out of it. So, but I want to I want to start uh I want to start with you. Um can you pronounce your name the way that you would say it in Norwegian?
SPEAKER_00In the reason I will say Turmud, Iringus. Turmud. Turmud. Yeah, and uh uh actually my name, my father, father's name was Ture, and that's uh and it's oh it's all from the Vikings, you know. So my name is Turmud, is Tor, and Mood is the courage. So like my name is the courage of Tor. The courage of Tor. That's it couldn't be how to follow up that.
SPEAKER_01That's that's not that's no joke. That's uh that's wonderful. How how cool? What a what a great meeting. Wow, that's cool. So you you are uh you live in Oslo. Where did you where did you grow up in Norway? Which part in Oslo?
SPEAKER_00No, it's like um I grew up uh outside of Oslo, but it's not uh like uh a suburb, like uh three, four miles outside Oslo. So I'm I'm um born around here, but my family came from west northwest of uh Norway.
SPEAKER_01So I've been which is which is where this what is the name of that town where this is this film is is shot?
SPEAKER_00Uh this is uh um oh sorry. Um does it have a name? Uh Udallen, yeah, Udalen is an Udalen, right?
SPEAKER_01Udallen Udalen, and that's O D A, right? Oh O D A L E N. Udalen. Udallen or Udalen. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00And it's so many, yeah. It's uh and it's so many different there's so many, it's a beautiful nature, and that's the thing with Norwegian, like the people from Norway we are so spoiled with the nature. So when Norwegian people see this film, they're like, oh nice Norwegian nature. But when we showed it in Toronto, it was like uh mind-blowing for them, and uh and of course at the Toronto Film Festival, yeah, yeah, and uh it's been around now, it's been in New York and been several places, and it's so amazing traveling around with this film because it's about the life, it's it's uh it's mostly about life, it's mostly about and also the life and the nature together and the meaning of life, and um taking care of of course the family and uh the generation that goes through, but also taking care of uh the nature. But it's not a film about moral moralizing you should do that or be that's not it's just a feeling, just yeah, when you see it, just okay, yeah. I know we should uh take it.
SPEAKER_01No, that's a that's a very good description. That's because that's what I was that's that's how I've that's what it it it it triggered in me, you know. It was it was a feeling, and there is a uh you know, I live in New York City, you know. I'm I'm calling you from I'm in Astoria in Queens, and I've lived here for 20 years, and I travel a lot with as a as a singer and songwriter and performer. Um, and I I every chance I get to get out of New York, I I take it, you know, it's it's lovely to come back to New York. I love New York, you know, but yeah, but it it's a big city, it's loud, it's noisy, it's dirty, it's um um, it's dangerous, it's become more dangerous lately. Uh the crime has ticked up here quite a bit, you know. We have uh uh sadly we don't have a have a uh a very highly functioning uh government in New York at the moment. A lot of stuff gets gets put by the wayside. And and so uh, you know, we a lot of us feel like here in in the city that we have to sort of fend for ourselves because there used to be a system in the city that would um be much more involved in our day-to-day problems, you know, like we're having very simple problems that never used to be problems here in New York City, like street cleaning. It's not happening the way it's supposed to. It's it's terrible, it's really terrible. So there's a lot of and there's a lot of construction going on at the same time as well in New York. So you have a lot of of uh debris on the roads, you have a lot of trash because people people just are still very messy and don't care about their environment, which I hate makes me very upset, very upset. So, you know, I'm what I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to illustrate, you know, the this and compared to what I'm seeing in your film. Yeah, and it's it's a very stark contrast to see to live this way, and it's you know, we we also have beautiful parts of New York State, yeah. Beautiful, beautiful park, uh beautiful parks here in the city and uh upstate New York, you know. So it's not all um doom and gloom, um, but uh we need some something needs to happen around here, you know. We have a terrible mayor, it's really terrible. So it was it was really nice to to take in um songs of earth as a reminder of this return to nature, I think that I feel simple, a very simple life, and um I think it's something that a lot of people are thinking about these days. And I think a lot of people are leaving big cities, they're not coming to big cities the same way they used to, and there is a sort of return to nature, so that's your timing couldn't be better, is what I'm saying. Um, now do you do you feel this? And I then I want to get into talking a little about sound and and yeah your work on the film, but when you grew up in in Oslo or near Oslo, just outside of Oslo, how was your relationship with with nature and what were things like then when you were when you were growing up in the 60s, 70s, right?
SPEAKER_00Uh 70s, yeah. 70s, um yeah, 70s. So um no, because I I grew up um in Osat Oslo and in Oslo. So it was uh of course it was in town and we was not that crowded, but and not but uh you know all the people in Norway we we do every we have we don't work Saturday and Sunday, we have four weeks vacation every summer, yeah. And we walk every like every weekend we go out hiking. That's that's how we do it, and of most of the people have uh cabins, and so we are lucky that we can do these things. And for me, I remember um as a child, uh just walking out biking and into the woods. We we were playing deep in the forest, and we of course uh I was early, started shooting uh like small uh films, like short films on eight millimeter and on super eight, like eight millimeter, but yeah, yeah. Oh, I love it. Yeah, do you have did you have sip?
SPEAKER_01Do you have siblings? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, I had a sister, a sister is, but she was uh uh four years younger than me. But we had friends that uh we were uh out playing, and then and uh I remember like now, like for four years ago. Um I've been living in LA and I've been living in London, and we stayed in London for one year working on Maleficent.
SPEAKER_01And luckily we were yeah, the the film Maleficent film Maleficent Disney film, yes, yes, yeah, Disney film with uh uh Angelina Jolie, correct?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it was great fun. But the thing was we stayed we lived in Twickenham and uh Richmond, and that was quite nice. Uh and we worked there for a couple of months, and that was like outside London. But then when we started uh mixing the film we we had to go into Savo and into centre, and we had to commute there every day because I had the family with me. So the stressness of on tube with all those people and all the subway, sorry.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, the tube, they call it the tube in London, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, uh subway and uh um go crowd and um uh the stress to get there before starting work because how I live now in Oslo is like five minutes work from Maryland to my studio, and you can mix there. So that was uh quite stressful, and you know, to for me is and for people to be creative, you have to have um we'll call it um you have to be on top, you have to be not uh overloaded work, you have to be, you know, not not not stressed, not stressed, because then it is impossible to be creative, you have to make space totally, yeah, yeah, totally. So you can definitely do work, you can definitely do sound, you can definitely uh uh uh put uh sound on doors and everything, but to be creative, to go into films, you need to have that space, and yeah, and then go out in nature and go out and and as he does. Uh he's been walking his whole life and he's uh he's kind of uh has this uh sense, uh what I call it, uh has has this calmness and um and yeah, um so um I'm always aiming for make that space, uh yeah, it's called balance, right?
SPEAKER_01I mean it's very, very important uh to to to find that in in your life. And and uh, you know, I I talk about this all the time. I think about this a lot. You know, how do you create balance? Because like you were saying earlier about how us creative people work, you know, we need that kind of space and and and energy, you know, around around us. And um daily life, like you were saying, living in a big city is is stressful to begin with because you're faced with so many challenges. Where if you're in nature in a very simple uh so with simple surroundings, uh there is you you don't have those challenges, but you know, not everybody wants that kind of a life, right? Not everybody wants to live that close to nature. Some people love the city, I love the city, but I want I want both. Yeah, definitely uh me as well, because I yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Because I uh uh when I have um when my daughters was younger, we lived outside Oslo, so that was uh and have to commute into to the studio. So uh I missed the vibe in Oslo and the vibe going out to go to cinema, to restaurant, meet people. Uh I need that to get inspiration. So I need get inspiration both when you go out in the nature, just listen to sound, listen to what's happening, and you need to be where everything happens and work with great people. And uh for me, working in London was amazing and also LA because you meet the greatest people, you work with and you can feel the vibe, you can see, go to theater, you can go to cinemas, and you can do so many things. So it's it's both, but uh uh and we are of course lucky that we can choose, but uh but um yeah, it's so important that you so I'm uh I'm more in I'm more city guy than uh nature, but uh a logo like take with Cation do you go skiing and go out. So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So let's talk about the film um Sons of Earth.
SPEAKER_00So the the the the footage like what I'm when I'm watching this is it looks like they used drones to film this for most of the both not both my uh drones, but also they uh of course the wide shots is drone, but they also uh went into small caves and they yeah, they they're just uh they've um been kind of everywhere, and there was lots of uh close-ups, lots of close-ups, yeah. And it's like uh yeah, yeah, and you have this um what do you call it? Um yeah, hyper realist men, and you uh so you both like white shots, but also go into underwater and overwater, and so it's uh but and it's been a camera team of four people, and um but and they full of uh who are the cinematographers?
SPEAKER_01It was so like there were some of the shots were amazing because you would have these close-ups of like an arm and like someone's skin, and then show the corrosiveness of the ice and the glacier against it, and it it it was beautifully done because it it literally looks like the same thing, except one is a person's and their skin, one is ice. And uh, who were the cinematographers?
SPEAKER_00Uh Lars um sorry, Lars Alan. He's a Norwegian, uh he's done lots of documentaries. Uh, this is the his first kind of uh so wishal, so uh and he's got so many good reviews and uh done it beautifully, and it's uh and for us, and the whole process is quite interesting because we we started uh he uh Margaret has had this idea uh because uh her father has been walking around in the mountain for uh his entire life, and uh when she was a child, he brought uh her daughter up to the mountain and they went into the glacier. And the story is the first kind of her idea of making this film that he she went up with his father up to the glacier and they was went into the cave, and suddenly she heard some sounds uh inside the glacier and inside the cave that uh felt like someone was playing. So she asked her father, uh is there anybody playing down there? And he I he uh replied, Do you also hear it? So uh so that how it started, that she's been so curable curious about the um the feeling of the nature of uh all the visuals that make fairy tales, uh and of course all the sounds that the nature makes. So we started it quite early before shooting. We had so many meetings uh about uh with the editor, with the the DOP, the photographer, and and the composer, and me and the director about who's the composer? Um Rebecca Car. Uh she also she's a musician, uh, done several uh records. Um uh is amazing, amazing um composer. So we started uh okay, how how to approach this. We started uh um to we had this uh recorder on set because I'm sound designer and supervising and re recording. So but I also on this project I went out and did lots of recording, but mostly we had one guy that followed the uh the rec the uh when they shoot the film, shot the film uh all the time. So um he he uh went with them and recorded lots of sound, and we tried to find sounds that are kind of the soul, and this could be but also the rhythm and yeah to you, you know. I have no reason, I can't uh but it's good, you're doing great. You're doing great, yeah. So but it's it's uh the soul, and you know, the rhythm and and all those uh different that makes um like feeling of uh something that are alive, yeah. So so we did all those things, uh and uh and also uh the director had sounds and visual in her mind when he she filmed her father walking around in the mountain. So what we did collect all these sounds, we um um put uh we started to um put them in a system and we picked up all the sounds that were kind of musical, and uh started to make music of it, and then we sent it to Rebecca.
SPEAKER_01So you're that's cool. So you you're saying that the sounds that you collected and and and you hear like this crackling of the ice and you hear the water flowing and you're the wind and yeah, the rain, and and you know, um uh very very intimate, very beautiful, like very texturized. Yeah, and so you so that you you're saying that you recorded that, sent that to Rebecca, uh the composer, and she used that to for as inspiration for for composing the score.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, score. And actually, the old uh musician that came in did improvise, they listened to the sound, they watched the film, and it started just to just to play with it, just to play all so they was like try to make the sounds I sent to her so they try to replicate what they're so the whole idea is for the rector was never to to uh as an audience you should never uh know when the sound stops and the music starts, you know. Like and then you can grow up to a big uh score. So we started with small tickling, small uh uh small wind, small stuff, and the wind suddenly became a fluid, or the drips uh uh was percussion, or uh all those things. So that was and what we did with the editor was like we when during the shooting, and it was we and I've between all those other projects, but uh we kind of did a sequence. Uh the editor did a sequence, he sent it to me, and I started to do the sound and sound editing, and we had this uh this idea of make the the rhythm and all these things, and then I sent it back to him and he re-edited it, and then was for the back, and then we sent it to Rebecca and and the director showed it, and then we get the next sequence, and then sequence of sequence by sequence and by sequence, and then we kind of had this, and we had this kind of red thread, uh, but uh the uh everything was all about uh collaboration from the day one to make this film, so yeah, it's uh so there was like everything uh it's a big collaboration, but so it was so fun because for me uh doing some uh is so important to be a storyteller. Uh it's not about doing great doors or explosion or anything, it's like uh defined the sense of uh things to be as early as possible in the project is so important.
SPEAKER_01How much time did you spend on set at the location?
SPEAKER_00I was because I was on and off, and I actually didn't follow them, I just went the week after or like months after uh and recorded. But we had this idea of all the sounds in the film should be from that part of Norway, yeah. The part of uh nearby. So I didn't use anything from my library because I've I've done so many films, I have so many libraries of water and flowing in, but uh yeah, but we try to record everything, and the thing is like when you record stuff, uh especially when you record waterfalls and nature, it it often gets into noise because it's uh the sounds like when you listen to like um waterfall or yeah, it's um it it be often became uh becomes uh like noise, pink noise. So you need to get in uh you need to get into details, you need to go much closer, and then you build you can listen to so what kind of Andreas uh who they recorded the set recorder, he went with the people that was on set when uh so he recorded everything, he was like on and he did lots of recording. So what I mostly did was like listen to what he had recorded. That was like uh more like a like a drone shot kind of overview of what and then I kind of okay. I can and then I took that apart and I recorded all those details and I just build it up again. So and then and then you can start uh do that with mix that with music and sound. So you have all these elements that you have in kind of an orchestra orchestra, yeah, and then you can build all these things together and make it like a big piece. So that was the idea, and that's what we did.
SPEAKER_01So I love the fact that the uh the sounds of nature inspired the the score, and that you're you're working directly with the composer in that way. It's that's it's a wonderful. I love that. Um, yeah, and I've been collaboration, I say this all the time, is is key to success. Because we have to because we have to work together, we have to communicate, you know, you have to find compromises, you know. If uh I you know, I wish we would be better uh in politics when it comes to that. Um definitely you know what I mean. Um so so so can you can you talk a little bit about what kind of equipment and what kind of microphones you would use in a situation like that? How how big is that equipment now? It is it I'm so I'm assuming it's all digital. Or do you use any kind of analog, do you mix it in with any kind of analog equipment at all?
SPEAKER_00Or mostly the digital, but uh we do um I'll try to find another English name, but when you put on focus, you use Hydron mic, you do you do this? Describe it, describe it. Yeah, you um you you use different type of special uh microphone. You have a contact microphone, you put on the glacier, and you so and and you you use um microphone that works outside when it's very really cold, and you use uh hydrophone underwater.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, but yeah, this underwater record okay. This is very interesting to me. So the because there are several shots underwater, yeah, and it's beautiful, you know, and the water is like crystal clear, yeah, you know, and you just know you can like there's a scene where where he the the father where he he just picks up the water with his hand and puts it to his mouth and drinks the water, and you can just see it's like probably delicious and clean, you know, and and um and and the sound is you you can you can hear it, you know, you can hear that kind of contact. And this it's it's it's very visual, right? You if you close your eyes, you you imagine it, you know. It it's kind of like it's a lot like podcasting, you know, like when you you're hearing you're hearing the voices of the people talking, having the conversation, and your mind puts together the rest, your mind starts imagining, well, what what do these people possibly look like? You know, and then usually it's they're very different in real life, but you know, with with sound, um, it's it's the same thing, you know, your imagination gets gets a chance to work, yeah, and and be a part of of the of the film. It's like a great movie to me is the kind of movie where you are watching it and imagining what will happen next in your mind. You know, if a director can do like Hitchcock was genius at this, yeah. Hitchcock was fantastic at creating environments where you started imagining what was going to happen next. Of course, most of the time would be slightly different, which is which adds a twist to it, and that's the entertainment value. But you you get involved, like you know, and that's that's how you and that I've I was feeling the same with with this, you know. I was like trying to imagine how it smelt, you know, being there and how it felt being there, how cold was the water when I saw the water, I'd be like, Well, it looks beautiful, but I'm sure I wouldn't go swimming in there because it'd you be a massive and I I'm into cold plunges, believe me. I just I uh I I drove out to to Jones Beach um last week on Saturday last week. It was very warm here, very warm. It was 27 degrees Celsius. It was it was like 80 degrees um close to 80 degrees Fahrenheit, and uh I went for a long run uh several miles and then um went into the ocean uh last Saturday. Oh nice and of you know it fell it's it was a little on the cold side, but it felt amazing, you know. And I I won't say where exactly I'm going because uh you know what I don't want people to know. So but but it's you know Jones Beach, it's very very beautiful still. Um but you know that kind of feeling like when I saw the these um these waterfalls and these pools, it makes you want to go in there and and and swim, but I'm sure it was very cold. But uh so the the microphone that you use to collect and record the sound underwater, how does that work?
SPEAKER_00Uh it's often when I do like hydrophones, like you get little you get uh it gets too clear and it gets not that what you expect expect what is the sound underwater. So does the microphone get plunged? Yeah, and what surrounds it? Like how does that what are those called? It's called hydrophone microphone, so it's uh hydrophone microphone. Okay, so it's you can uh actually use it on the water, but uh but we often I use different kind of microphones, but um so we have to always take those sounds and start creating them because uh I'm I'm I I'm I'm a of course I love microphones, I love to do recordings, I don't do too much processing or EQing, or like of course eqing, but not too much kind of uh plugins. I don't want it to be real recording, but of course but for me everything is about as as you say, is like storytelling, it's like it's not what you actually uh uh Peter is what you hear, it's more about how he feels, how he hear or feels at that time. So that's always my approach when I do films. Um when I'm sitting with a director, I'm often try to be the dumbest, uh like not the dumbest, but uh not so clever audience. I had to so I ask him, okay, I can see they are kissing, but what do they actually feel, or what are they actually uh what's going on in their minds? What are they thinking about? Yeah, so and sometimes the the some directors get a little bit scared because are he not uh given enough, skilled enough, but uh mostly we get into conversation, it's not about sound, it's not it's about the story. Yeah, then we get a really interesting conversation about what we and then I said okay, then I could do this and this and this. So for me on this film, it was mostly talking about uh her feeling from her childhood when she walked around with her father and have a conversation with the father, and of course being theirself, your own feeling, um try to make as you said the water delicious because he senses it. He is he's uh it's not about uh actually water uh flowing through his hand, but it's it's about the feeling of being there. So that's um so that's how uh I like to so I I I do so many different things. I don't I'm not so into like doing surround recording or doing technical stuff. I'm more into I can use uh one or two microphones, yeah, and I go, but I'd go all I like uh you and I when you do photographing, you go into fine details, if you go to find those small things, you you collect all those sounds that are especially you're listening. Oh, that was a tree creaking, or there's something. And what we wasn't really uh fun thing when we uh was what just we just lowered a microphone like 60 meters down in a glacier. Uh oh wow, yeah, down there. And we talked okay that's the same.
SPEAKER_0160 meters that would be like uh uh oh my god, like I'm gonna uh blank on this, but like um uh times three would be uh uh like a hundred and hundred and eighty feet, something like that.
SPEAKER_00200 feet, yeah, like in like what called a crack or uh down there, and we thought okay, then we're gonna be uh totally silence, or it's gonna be uh some wind, or we didn't know what to expect. But suddenly it started to make this tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick a strange rhythm. It's like the oil was and there was constantly, it was not changing, it was like it was not dripping, it was something else, and that sound it's so many that's kind of oh, this is uh Mother Earth, this is uh this is the heartbeat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Mother Nature.
SPEAKER_00Mother Nature. So we that this uh sound is uh in several places in the film, and we uh we yeah, so that was that's what happened when you uh kind of go in and explore.
SPEAKER_01Did you ever figure out what it was that sound? No, that that no no clicking never no no.
SPEAKER_00Wow, it's wild. Yeah, it's wild, it's crazy, and it was not yeah, yeah, it was was like I'm not sure. It's not water, it was uh and it was not river, but it was like quite uh close to and was uh there were these, it was not like dick dick, and then was like not crack.
SPEAKER_01It was a rhythm, there was some kind of a rhythm. Yeah, yeah, there are there are these moments where you hear the sort of cracking of the ice, you know how uh you know, I'm sure everyone remembers what it was like when you walked on snow, yeah, on like dry snow, which just goes, you know, you have that like crackling sound, and um it's very uh it's very intimate and it and it immediately causes us to you know it triggers a memory.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01For me, it does, you know. When I listen to that kind of a sound, it triggers a memory of me being a child, you know. I mean, I grew up in Africa, we didn't have much snow there, but when I was when we were living in Germany, we did, you know, and and uh I mean every every winter is gets here in New York, every winter. I've been living in New York for 20 years, and every winter it gets a little milder, you know. So uh for better or for worse, it is what it is. And uh, you know, we have uh there are there are a lot of changes happening on the planet. And um, but I mean when we uh as as teens we would um I remember uh one holiday we uh we were up at uh a uh um in Sankt Peta Oding. It was uh it's a small um town in the north of of of Germany, like near the I think it's near the Den Danish border. And uh it it was uh very cold. And uh I remember you know walking on the the snow and hearing that sound and and sort of being entertained by it and and listening to to that sound and like getting lost in it. And it it you know it it kind of listening to the to the watching the film, it it it kind of triggered that it triggered all these memories of the of the cold and the quiet and um the sort of you know time of time of year where you just kind of want to be in in a quiet space with you know just a few people of choice and uh and enjoy the enjoy that it's warm inside and and um you know cold outside. Um so when um when you were at this town or this area, if you will, do you did you it that was that your first time there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in that area was the first time, but I but I've been in Fjord around and uh uh there's some places nearby that you can ski, that have been you can ski at summertime as well. So, but that was the first time uh being there, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and was it was it as overwhelmingly beautiful as it as it shows in the film for for you? Like, do you remember what what it felt like?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, definitely. There was uh and for me they've been there like uh both summertime and wintertime. It was uh it's amazing, it's um it's just but uh as I told you, we are kind of spoiled with the um yeah with uh nature like this. So we kind of um yeah, but uh it it was so beautiful, and but it's cut, but it's beautiful and it gets so wild as well, you know. It can be so dangerous and can be so can turn from beautiful to yeah, like and what in what way?
SPEAKER_01For instance, for what in what way?
SPEAKER_00No, it could get uh the weather can turn around in kind of and you go up in this the mountain are beautiful and it's a beautiful day, and you walk up and and suddenly just everything changed, and you get uh wind and storm, and then you get uh and it's quite dangerous. And um so it searches so uh there and for them, like for like now it's better, but uh if there anything happened, they need to get uh they need a helicopter to get out, and they they earlier they had to walk for three days if someone gets uh got sick. And yeah, so it's it's been tough for them. It's they've they've been living in this beautiful nature for like many generations. Many generations, yeah. Yeah, but it's been so tough because it's been uh in the film it's uh it's been um call it when like mountains falls apart, you know. Oh, like a like a lavine or like what's yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Snow lavine, but also rock. Oh, you have rock, yes, right, yes, right. So yeah, no, that's dangerous.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So it's you can call them that it's uh thank you and good night. Yeah, so it's actually easier to live in New York, uh uh when it comes to this point, but um for me, like sitting like in the winter time there, because it's so far away from uh the city, sitting there, it's so dead quiet. And you can when it starts snowing, you can listen to all the snows that falls on your jacket, and it's like uh it's like so uh yeah, it's good for me.
SPEAKER_01Talk a little bit about uh your discovery of sound. You were mentioning earlier that you when you were a boy, you had a super eight camera, yeah. And uh you've you shot on on film. My dad had a my dad had a super eight camera that you know he would he would he would use, and you know, and then like later we had like VHS and you know when we were when we were kids. Um but he had a super eight camera in the film, and I uh it always fascinated me, yeah, you know, that you could and it it was a bit these cartridges were uh uh you know uh short, so you could I think you could only shoot about four minutes or something like that. Is that about right? And um, and then you would send out the film, it would get developed, they would return it as a little reel, and then you would put it on a projector and screen it in your house onto uh uh you know, I mean, Mike, my dad had all the things, yeah. Yeah, it was fabulous. He had all this stuff, and uh, and I was I loved it, you know. I loved the technology and the and and playing with it, and you know, it was fabulous. Like it was and you could edit the films and cut it together and that was the film. You know I mean it was like it was amazing, yeah, it was amazing, you know. And then I mean uh I I then had you know, I switched to to video video, like you know, digital very, very relatively quickly, but I remember it, you know, and I I had those experiences, and I'm really glad I did. When I was very young, I had these uh experiences with uh film, yeah, and and um analog and and understanding the technical aspects of it, I think still uh help me now understand you know uh editing, the the process of editing, you know, it's putting one two pieces together and and turning it into one. Um so when you when you had this uh um this camera and what what was it about sound? Like what what kind of music did you guys listen to at home? Was it no?
SPEAKER_00I'm mostly uh what I did was like uh I was of course as all the sound designers, we kind of started uh in a band, you know. Yes, yes, come on. So kind of a band, a band. So uh but I also did it, but I would uh uh I started in um a band with some uh friends and we played heavy rock. Heavy metal, heavy metal, uh heavy metal, but I was more like a white snake or maiden or okay, stuff like that. So, what did what instrument did you play? That's the thing I played bass and I still played bass, but I seldom but that I was I'm uh playing in heavy rock band playing bass quite boring afterwards, so I got into more like uh um um putting up uh setting up the sound, uh started to recording the sound, and then we did like the tapes, and I started to producing the songs. I love it, and at the same time, of course, uh worked. We we did all this uh we um eight super eight. Um we of course we did the we cut it, and but the sound wasn't good there. And so what I did was like uh cut the film, we cut the film together, and at the same time I had this tape recorder with the four tracks. So I made it, I remember four tracks. Yeah, so so at the first I had uh I just had two cassettes cassette player player and the recorder, and I did some so I tried to make all the sounds in sync with the film that we had cut. So when we screened it for the uh for School or for the class. I actually play on both at the same time and hope that was to sink it. I got very good at it. That was like seek it and then uh so for me it's like uh to start in that area uh in and of course later we got uh we uh like video and we got uh I started working on Amiga Commodore Amiga is a computer, yeah, sure. Commodore sequence, yeah, Commodore.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well who made those who who made Commodore computers? Was that the company? Was it Atari? Was that not Atari?
SPEAKER_00That was a different so Commodore company. Yeah, so it was uh C64 was the first one, and then Amiga, yes, and Amiga was what we could actually start doing sequencer, and we yeah did music and of course sound editing afterwards.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, my brother had this one, he got a computer, but I got a stereo. I remember those it was yeah, it was uh awesome.
SPEAKER_00And I did some VFX and we did everything, you know. When we were yeah kids, we kind of we wanted to do all those things, so yeah, that was quite fun. So yeah, so I used to do that with the limited, the limit of kind of plugins and limited of tracks. You had all yeah, you get into then you have to be more creative and more uh into story, you know, instead of sure just doing lots of stuff. You had to be plan it, you have to uh focused on the story and uh and uh be clever. So that's the same thing.
SPEAKER_01So you were you were pulled into you were pulled into into more of the visual aspect rather than musical. For you, it was more like about making creating something that that was was film rather than rather than music.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I were drawing films and what I did kind of. I also started working when um uh was in uh preschool, like Ike preschool, but uh in gymnasium, what you call it? Uh high school um high school. Uh high school. Uh I worked on a local TV station, and we can stay there every night and do stuff there for our own project. So yeah, that how but for me because I loved seeing films and I saw what films did, like sound did with me, uh of course music as well, but uh what uh the the force and what what sound could you inspiration? Inspiration, yeah, definitely. So that that's I like inspiration is like uh watching, of course, Martin Scotchess. Uh okay, I was just gonna ask you that.
SPEAKER_01Who who was so who who some of the first what's the first movie you remember watching going, I want to do that?
SPEAKER_00Uh what is uh it's like for me, it's like uh um uh seeing Martin Scotch, the film like uh Raging Bull, Taxi Driver. Oh wow, wow, wow, yeah, that was like Robert De Niro, right?
SPEAKER_01De Niro, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, early on, young De Niro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that was for me mind-blowing, but of course, later with all films um with um Steven Spielberg, of course, with ETE and because I love the fantasy of getting into something, and of course, Star Wars, and to to go into something that are uh not real but could sound real, you know. Yeah, you because in you that uh the ships in Star Wars are just models, or but you just accept it, you just got into the story because it sounds so great, and uh so that was inspirational. So that's that's for me was like okay, this is yeah. What is it?
SPEAKER_01So you know, this is a great question for you, I think, because you know you you you are you appeal to that part of our imagination that makes us think, yes, this is really happening. And of course, when you're sitting in front of a computer or a TV screen or you know, a a movie theater, you're you hear the sound of water, you hear the sound of wind, you hear the sound of ice cracking, um, and you you your senses start reacting, and you know that it's not really happening. You're you know that there is no water around you, there's no ice, but we imagine that there is, and we're so we're so easily uh uh, you know, we we we're very we're we we click with it, you know, we we make it our brains kind of do the work for us. Now there are ways to to make that easier for our brains to do. And can you talk a little bit about that? Like what do you what kind of thought process goes into that to make it sound so that, and I don't mean necessarily like the quality of the sound, but maybe how you use it, when you use it, um, you know, maybe timing, what what what kind of tricks do you use there to to make us think I'm there with the character, I'm I'm feeling, I feel the wind, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's sometimes because I always always say that there is four places where you can do great sound design. And that and that uh is the first place is the script, so you have to be uh sitting with a script and uh um think about sound already there, but that's gonna make great sound later because you think about it, you uh then you because uh then uh if you want to believe in sound you uh the actor should react if there are a lot big noise or something that they are in uh so you should plan it from the script, and then of course before shooting, you should if you are if you want to have win, you should also see it visually visually. So and uh and then during the shooting you should be aware of that uh all the dialogue and everything is in good shape, so you can play with all the sounds, uh all the other sounds, and you can but you should you and then of course I think the last place that the fourth place is actually when you edit the film. So for me to be together with the editor uh um build this film because everything is about storytelling, so it's uh it's not like we do know editing and then we do sound and then we do music, and then it's all a part of uh a film and the storytelling. So for me it's so important. So to make you can do fantastic um abstract um sounds and that doesn't fit to the what you see, but you need to connect with something. You need to start at some point place, you need to feel as uh he is you can have uh just foley or something, or anything that you should connect it to something, and then you can go wide they can go into his head or you can go uh as music because music is not music, it works uh really good, but uh it works because it's just emotion and you can use that in sound as well. You can really go out there and um but you need to start someplace that to connect it with what you uh with the film, and then you can I love that just yeah.
SPEAKER_01So makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_00Makes a lot of sense because if you don't have an idea and you don't have a a story, then then how are you you know then there's no way to tell that story, and you the first thing is like if the director has this uh direction and the sound, the sounder editor wants to do this because it sounds good. Something else then it's uh so it's so important that you are on the same track, but then you can challenge him. And the same comes with music, you know. Music is a tricky thing because uh you have this okay, you have the director that has or uh a writer that has made this script and had and had this, and he has or her has this feeling of a scene, you know, and then they start shooting, and we they want to keep that same feeling or L uh that and then with the actor and anything, and then it goes to the editor, and they want to move that in into the editor, and then and at some point when after like six months of editing, and you have few ten uh test screenings, you kind of lose that first feeling you had, so you want to compromise it, you or you want to be um push it even more, and then it comes to us, and you tell the composer that yeah, I want that feeling, uh and then you tell the sound designer I want the feeling, and the the grader that or the colorist that make the color.
SPEAKER_01That's the other thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00The color yeah, so we do if you don't call collaborate, you can uh end up with all the all the like all of us trying the same, so you kind of tip over. Um like life, isn't it? It's a lot like life and like relationships, yeah. You're trying to hard, yeah. But uh it's uh and but uh the also thing the thing is like you want it the worst thing is like you if you push the audience the feeling instead of uh so you the composer are telling, or the sound designer or whatever are telling the audience this isn't how we're gonna feel here. That's not good. So what we're always trying to do is like uh a scene, make it as clean as possible, the audience feels it, and then you push it with music, or then you push it with feelings. You just and you just uh enhanc it, you just make it stronger. But if you and some films are always pushing the feelings because you know everything, you have no one's gonna be uh happy, nobody's gonna be sad, nobody's gonna but but that's not good. You should kind of let the audience feel it, and then you can push it to the next level. So yeah, I think that's I think that's a very uh current you know contemporary problem that that uh it's like laziness has taken over, and everything sometimes it doesn't trust your first kind of idea you had because the idea was so clean and so good when you write it, and it should stay there, it should trust you, and you should uh don't try to get that same feel. We never get that same feeling, and that's why how I often if I I never if I haven't been with the editor or uh from the first time if I the first time I see a offline, I often sit down and write down all the feelings I had when I watched the offline. You know, the offline before we start offline is like after you have edit the film before you start putting in effects and mu the right music and sound and everything. Okay, so I try to uh write down all the feelings I got when I saw the uh offline because it's some even if it sounds like crap or because it's just uh rough cuts, yeah, it has a rhythm, it has something some has a feeling that you should not um try to make it sometimes you make it too good, it's getting high fidelity. Get you are too too clever to get rid of all those things, but too clever. I love it. That's great.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's like songwriting is the same, you know, music production is the same, you know. I mean, I'm I've been making records for a long time, and for me, at the end of the day, really it is about the song, and it's that first nucleus when I write the song with you know, by either by myself or with a writing partner, I it's I I always go back to what did that feel like and what was I doing, and then you know, you add and then you subtract again, yeah. You know, so you you build it, build it, build it, and then you go, that's too much, and you bring it down and you change it.
SPEAKER_00And uh because you get tired of what you have done, so you get just put in more and more things, and then yes, yeah, it's so mixing is a good thing that yeah, because that mixing is a good thing, because mixing is all about taking away things to you uh build up so many things, you have done so many things you have been tracking, and sometimes like six people have done lots of things. So when you sit down the mixing, you just that then you just make choices.
SPEAKER_01It's sort of a reminder about how how obsessive we are as a species. You know, perfect example is is uh a Billy Jean, Michael Jackson's Billy Jean, uh Quincy Jones uh produced uh producer. Um, and they uh they ended up doing uh dozens of mixes, I think some 80 mixes or something like that of the track, and they kept trying to make it better and better and better because you know, and then what the the mix that you actually hear that is now you know became a huge worldwide hit and is still gets played all the time, is the second mix, as far as I know, it's the second mix. So they did 80 mixes and went back to number two, and that was the that was the record, you know, like it's so often in in life it's the same, you know. We uh we think we need to fix something or make it different or better, or you know, and then we realize it was already there. It was already there, it was already there. So um we have to wrap it up. It's been great talking to you. Um, you know, I I love all this. Uh I I learned so much in these in these conversations, you know. It's it's really it's really fun. So thanks to your your uh publicist, I think it's impact 24. Is it you guys were yeah? So yeah, they've fed us a lot of a lot of guests. So uh thanks to Impact 24 for for contacting me about about you when they wrote me the email. I I was like, oh yeah, I gotta I gotta talk to this guy. And I mean you had and also it's your it's your background, it's the other films that you worked on, some very big movies. I mean, didn't didn't you work on on give us some of the names uh of other films that you like you've worked on several Hollywood films and in addition to Maleficent, right? Maleficent, right?
SPEAKER_00Uh owl is promoted promo sorry, pronounced uh but uh uh uh um I was lucky because I've I've been lucky uh working on a couple of um films because we mostly with Norwegian directors, uh but this I worked on Pirates of the Caribbean, Pirates of the Caribbean. I think I remember that movie. Yeah, I saw a few of those Maleficent, and then and no, it's not it's not released yet, but uh beautiful film called Young Woman and the Sea. Young Woman and the Sea? When is that coming out? Hopefully uh sometime next year. I can't is it's no, it's not there's another film.
SPEAKER_01There's another film that I saw that uh either is out already or that is coming out called Flea.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that you worked on. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. There was a documentary, and that's a great thing for me uh from Norway that I work on so many different projects. That was actually a Danis documentary, it's a beautiful it was three times Oscar nominated. I saw that the preview looked fantastic. Uh you have to see it. It's that's a film, it's so heartbreaking, and it's so beautiful, and it's so nice, and it's also about uh uh the life, but uh and it's uh I was really fun working uh with that uh documentary. It's so sound driven as well. Um uh and it's uh about uh a refugee that had to flew from Afghanistan to Moscow and had to lie and then uh ended up in Denmark, but he's been living on his life whole life, his life is still he's still running because it's he's he has the secret. Wow, so it's um uh it's uh it was uh it was great. So and then that was fun. Um was uh Oscar nominated three times, so that was yeah, yeah good. But uh yeah, so you guys are in the running.
SPEAKER_01You're you're in the it's the uh Norwegian submission for uh uh best documentary feature, Oscar. Yeah, and so it's uh Sounds of Earth is the film. And where can people watch this? Uh do you know if it has a distributor yet or not yet?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it's um US distributor, but uh I think it's gonna be really released next year. So it's gonna be on festivals now, and of course, before uh the Oscars, all the Oscar screenings, but uh it's gonna be released next year. So yeah, so still yeah, congrat congratulations.
SPEAKER_01It's it's it's beautiful, and what I love about it is it's so simple and quiet, you know, and it's like the opposite of uh you know Hollywood in a way, you know. Not there's anything wrong with that, too. No, no, you could do that, it's great, but we need balance, you know, and I like balance. Um, so great. And if if people want to find out more about you, Tormod, where can they find you? Can are you on on Instagram or do you use social media?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we had more uh Instagram, and my name is T Ringness there. Um R-I-N-R-I-N-G-N-E-S- Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Tormod T-O-R-M-O-D R-I-N-G-N-E-S, folks, if you want to check that out. Great, yeah, man. It's it's such a pleasure to to have you on. Thanks for taking the time to uh to talk. I'm gonna uh oh yeah, my pleasure, man. You're welcome. So, yeah, folks, uh that was episode 99. Uh Tormod Ringness. I I'm pronouncing it wrong, I'm sure. But that was good. No, but you know, it's totally I'm doing my best. Um being German, it should be easier, but there's it's amazing how different the languages are, you know. It's um I can I can pick up some of it when in the in the film, uh the Norwegian, you know, I can pick up some of the phrasing. It's it's um it's nice to hear it's a beautiful language. Um so yeah, thanks folks for tuning in. That was episode 99. And we have episode 100, our big anniversary in uh special, is being taped next week. And uh we're gonna have uh it's a special episode, so I'm gonna have some special guests, and that is gonna be Matt Cuson, singer-songwriter Matt Cuson. We're gonna have, I believe we're gonna have Mark Farner from uh Grand Funk Railroad. We're gonna also have Mark Andes from Hart, um, Canned Heat. Uh he's been in several other bands, bassist, uh super nice guy, friend of the show. And I'm trying to remember who else. Simon Kirk. I think Simon Kirk's also gonna come on from uh Bad Company, uh drummer of Bad Company. So so we're gonna have four uh folks, four different peoples on the show next week for the 100th um episode of Making Sound with the Unclose. And uh hope you guys will tune in. If you want to send us, we've received several of these already. If you want to send a short video, a short real-sized video, so upright on your phone. Um, if you want to send that video and just say where you're tuning in from, where you're listening to the show from, because we have listeners in like a dozen countries at this point. And uh, so it's it's a lot of fun. Uh, a lot of international folks. If you want to send us a video of that, just saying, hey, I'm so and so listening from so and so, and uh whatever else you want to say, send it over to us. And uh, you can support the show at making soundpodcast.com. And my guest is Torm Tormod Ringness. Thank you for being on the show, and uh yeah, man, it's a pleasure. Hello to uh I'm waving to Oslo. All right, nice, nice, uh, nice to see you, nice to meet you, and uh thanks everybody for tuning in. Bye, I'm gonna get it.
