Women have lost hard-won ground during the pandemic -- without swift action, 30 years of labor progress and economic gains could disappear. How can business leaders reverse the damage and capitalize on the opportunity to draw women back into the workforce? PwC Global Crisis Leader Kristin Rivera and UK Inclusion and Diversity Consulting Leader Brenda Trenowden examine the structural issues that led to the losses, the long-term implications of a gender-regressive scenario, and steps business leaders can take to undo the damage.
Women have lost hard-won ground during the pandemic -- without swift action, 30 years of labor progress and economic gains could disappear. How can business leaders reverse the damage and capitalize on the opportunity to draw women back into the workforce? PwC Global Crisis Leader Kristin Rivera and UK Inclusion and Diversity Consulting Leader Brenda Trenowden examine the structural issues that led to the losses, the long-term implications of a gender-regressive scenario, and steps business leaders can take to undo the damage.
Kristin Rivera:
Welcome to our podcast series, “Emerge stronger through disruption.” I'm Kristen Rivera and I lead Global Forensics at PwC as well as our Global Crisis Centre. I'm coming to you today from just outside San Francisco, California. In each episode of this series, we talk with our global colleagues about the challenges facing business leaders during disruption.
Today, I'm joined by Brenda Trenowden, Inclusion and Diversity Consulting leader for PwC UK, for a conversation about women in the workforce. In our last couple of episodes, we explored the return to the workplace and the personalisation of work as global businesses begin to emerge from the pandemic after more than a year of disruption.
And that disruption clearly redefined how, where, and when we work. Today, as data from labor agencies and other sources reveals real numbers regarding employment in the first quarter of 2021, we'll look at women in the workforce and the particular challenges they face — and also how business leaders can address those challenges.
First, though, let me welcome Brenda. Please share a little bit about yourself and your role at PwC.
Brenda Trenowden:
Thanks for having me, Kristin. So I lead the Inclusion and Diversity Consulting practice at PwC here in the UK, and also coordinate a lot of our global efforts. But I also spent about five years chairing a global campaign called the 30% Club, which enlisted the support of chairs and CEOs, leaders in government, and institutional investors to really drive greater gender balance in organisations, from the boardroom and the C-suite down through the whole organisation. And the idea was really to have business leaders as members, publicly advocating for change as a business imperative, not as a social imperative. The work now that I do with my team at PwC is really helping our clients, broadly ranging from data gathering and inclusive culture diagnostics all the way through to behavioral nudges and even using virtual reality to create greater empathy and understanding of others. So it's really interesting work - it's different every day. And I have to say I really love it.
Kristin Rivera:
Brenda, that's great. And I'm so excited to have you here today to talk about the impact of the past year or year and a half on our people. It's clear that people have fared differently during the pandemic. From a professional standpoint, some have thrived, some have merely survived, and there are definitely some who are in a worse position now, professionally.
And so a question emerges for companies as to what is their responsibility to get those who were perhaps disadvantaged back on track. We know that there are a few segments of more significantly impacted people. And what we're seeing in the recent data is that women, specifically, have lost hard-won ground during the pandemic.
In some cases, their jobs were more vulnerable to begin with. And in others, the women had caregiving responsibilities that were a challenge to juggle. And now they're either setback or they may have even left the workforce and are finding it hard to get back. What are some of the trends you're seeing, Brenda, in terms of how working women fared during the pandemic?
Brenda Trenowden:
Kristin, you're spot on. I mean, we're seeing trends, not just women, but ethnic minorities, people who had mental health issues, disabilities I mean, all of them have been really more severely impacted during the past 18 months. But if we focus in on women in particular, our Women in Work Index, which looks across the whole of the OECD, really disappointingly showed that after nine-plus years of progress, we believe that from 2021, we're going to start to see women going backwards because of the pandemic. And we don't see full recovery by 2030, unless we double the rate of historic progress. So, this is really bad. And in terms of women's progress, you know, in all of those countries, other reports like one by one of the Canadian banks last summer showed that it was only a matter of months that the pandemic took to knock women's participation in the labor force down from a historic high to the lowest in 30 years. One of the studies out of the UK showed that 52% of employed mothers said that the lack of childcare they had during the pandemic had a negative impact, not only on how they were perceived by their employers, but also how they were treated by their employers, which, as you say, resulted in many leaving the workforce. And then the IMF, you know, once again had some pretty big numbers, saying that 30 years of gains and economic opportunities for women could be erased if we don't address these things now — you know, companies, governments, society in general. And so really this is centuries of structural social norms that mean that during the pandemic, childcare, homeschooling, other caring responsibilities, domestic responsibilities, were more likely to fall to women than men.
So, the problem existed before, but it was exacerbated during the pandemic. And also the fact that some of the worst-hit sectors like hospitality, retail, the beauty sector, as well, tend to employ more women than men. And that really exacerbated the problem. So some really stark figures there.
Kristin Rivera:
I have to say, Brenda, that feels like a punch to the gut.
You know, 30 years of gains potentially being erased is a stunning statistic. And it begs the question: Is this a social issue, primarily? Or does this have an impact on the bottom line of companies? And I think the answer is there is a real economic impact to this in a gender-regressive scenario, like we're potentially seeing, there are predictions that global GDP could be up to 1 trillion lower in 2030 than it would have otherwise been but for the setbacks caused by the pandemic. And if you take an inward view of your business, I think it's clear that this will increase costs from a perspective of turnover, rehiring, and retraining, as well as the missed revenue due to the time to get back on track, as well as customer insights that are lost during the shuffle.
Brenda Trenowden:
You're absolutely right. Kristin, I actually have heard from a number of companies that especially women leaving some of the sectors like hospitality and other areas that the cost of wages has really gone up now. And actually companies are having to think about how do they lure women back in, because women who have been juggling and have high childcare costs and things have gone out and said, “You know, I'm really rethinking about going back in and doing what I was doing.”
So not only are companies having to think short-term in terms of these costs, but I think long-term really having to rethink how they cater differently for women and really make it attractive for them to come back to work and make it easier for them — because they need to tap into that talent pool.
So that could be good news. And I think the other good news is that in this crisis, we have more data than we've ever had before. So, more than we had in the financial crisis back in 2008, more than we've had in previous recessions. And so companies can really analyze: where have we lost, who have we inadvertently affected, and what parts of the business and what's happened.
Companies also have more IND or DNI DEI, however you want to call it — officers that are starting to ask the questions and say, “How are we thinking about this? How are we tapping into these wide talent pools? Are we looking at the data? Are we making sure that we don't inadvertently hurt a particular part of the population?”
So we have the information to really build back better if we're conscious about it, and if we really think about it proactively.
Kristin Rivera:
So this really presents a catalyst for change for many businesses. And we see companies embracing these opportunities, either when they're trying to solve for a specific problem with their workforce, or because they recognize that there's an opportunity to embrace the silver linings that have come out of this pandemic, and to make proactive change in order to emerge stronger from the disruption we've all experienced.
Brenda Trenowden:
Absolutely. I'm always a fan of trying to see, you know, what are the positive learnings that we can find that, you know, I love your silver linings. So there have been several bright spots during this period. And I've heard this from women, from companies: We now do have much more flexibility, not just where we work, but when we work, right? So for all of these people that said before the pandemic, “It can't be done. We can't work remotely. These jobs can't be done that way. We can't have meetings this way.” Well, in very short order, all of that has been turned on its head and everybody is having to embrace this. So, that is a huge benefit, not only for women, but for lots of people who want to work in a more agile way.
Kristin Rivera:
In the tech companies that I work with here in Silicon Valley, there was a race maybe six months ago to announce who was adopting flexible work arrangements, whether people would be required to come back to work in a specific location or whether they could live anywhere and continue to work for the company.
And this was driven for a number of reasons. One, people want to live where they want to live and perhaps take advantage of lower cost of living, or be able to have more space. But also many workers, some who perhaps had never really had the opportunity to see what it was like to be home with the kids, or to spend time during the middle of the day doing something that they enjoy, like taking the dog for a walk or a bike ride or spending time with the kids. They've realized that they were missing out, and so they're looking for more flexibility. And so companies are realizing that they need to provide a different experience. And that is going to be a key ingredient in winning this war for talent that we seem to be in the middle of.
Brenda Trenowden:
Actually you're right. Holding off the losing talent, absolutely. More men are seeing a view into that work-life juggle that women disproportionately manage. The number of men that I've been on calls with, that have kind of said, “Oh my gosh, I had no idea” — what they thought their wives were doing during the day that they thought was this wonderful, easy life.
But in most cases they really understood it much more. So, I think that's really helpful. I think there are a lot of men that have enjoyed increased time with their families and they don't want to give that up. Once again, I've heard so many colleagues saying, “I actually like my family and my kids. I enjoy having dinner with them.”
And a lot of people not wanting to travel as much, have the same kind of presenteeism. So I don't think that we will necessarily go back to a gendered sense of how people want to work. Previously, when you talked about flexible or part-time, or agile, there was always a sense of a woman with, you know, she had a baby on one hip and she had maybe a number of clothes on the other hip or something.
And that was what everyone thought. And now people think about, it's all these guys that are like in their Lycra out wanting to cycle at lunchtime or something, or have a run or depending where you live, maybe get on their paddleboard, spend time with their kids in the park. So, I'm really hopeful and optimistic that this is a shift and that this is going to be really positive and it's not going to be a gendered thing anymore.
Kristin Rivera:
So the challenge to business leaders is how do you play this from here? The brewing war for talent that many industries are experiencing presents a compelling reason to make more deliberate efforts to bring back those who stepped away during the pandemic. Our own Global CEO Survey reported that 67% of CEOs expect to add headcount to their businesses in the next three years.
And 36% of global CEOs believe a diverse and inclusive workforce should be a priority. In the US that climbs to 67%. And in the UK 47%. A recent Forbes article detailed a Prudential study that found that one in three American workers would not want to work for an employer who required them to be onsite full-time, and a quarter of workers, according to the study, plan to look for a new job when the threat of the pandemic subsides.
And this is just further evidence that the war for talent that many are already experiencing is something that is here to stay for at least some time. So, Brenda, how do business leaders unleash the potential of a greater talent pool? And what deliberate steps can they take to create a level playing field for everyone as the world returns to the workplace?
Brenda Trenowden:
It's a really, really good question. A lot of the work that we're doing with companies now on thinking about hybrid working and new ways of working is really bringing this out, because as you say, people have really thought about things during the pandemic and they don't want to go back to the way that we used to work.
So in terms of leveling the playing field for everyone, I think as people are designing these new systems of work, they do need to go out and ask their employees, like that Prudential study, you mentioned, find out: “How do people want to work? How do they want to collaborate with their colleagues? What type of work are they doing?
We talk about often personas, you know, think about what are the different personas in your business, and what challenges do each of those personas have, and what are their preferences? Make sure that when you're thinking about these things and designing this new hybrid way of working, that you have true diversity around that design table.
And I call it being inclusive by design. So, you know, in particular, make sure that women are at the table when making those decisions, and make sure that their voices are being heard and that they can help debunk some of the myths about hybrid work and flexibility for women, because not all women are the same and not all women want the same things.
So we need to take into account intersectionality. Also, as people start to trickle back into the workplace — and you know, we're seeing a lot more of that now — really track who is coming back into the office. Once again, think about that data. And are we creating a new form of presenteeism? So those people that are rushing in, are they getting more face time with certain people than others? And maybe that's creating an unfair advantage.
So, over time we should be monitoring — how is that playing out in terms of promotions about work assignments and things like that? There was one particular big UK retailer that said they wanted to make sure that post-pandemic, 80% of all their meetings are done by zoom and 20% are in person. And even if people are in the office, for those 80% that they say are whatever types of online meetings, they really wanted everyone to be dialing in so that it's a level playing field. And we all know what it feels like if everyone's sitting around the table and you're the two people dialing in and everyone forgets about you or you can't raise your hand because no one's even looking at the screen. One chairman told me last week that he was at a board meeting two weeks ago, and I think eight people were sitting around the boardroom table and three people were dialed in, but every person around that boardroom table had a screen in front of them and had to dial into the platform and speak into the screen, so that the people that were dialed in from home were not disadvantaged.
Now, I haven't heard of many companies doing that. And I think, once again, that is really consciously inclusive and companies need to really think about that.
Kristin Rivera:
I think we've all experienced a little bit of that during the pandemic. And I've seen it even in my children in their online and in-person school experience, like many kids, they returned to a hybrid model where some were in the room and some were on Zoom.
And in fact, the school has been referring to them as the Roomers and the Zoomers. And I noticed that for some classes, my son would talk about the teacher as not being focused on the people in the room, as teaching to the computer for those who were online. Whereas other teachers naturally seem to focus on the Roomers, you know, those who were there in person.
But what was really interesting is that my son and his friends seem to really almost have anxiety or definitely have a different experience, whichever group they were in. And it was a mixed bag. Some were doing online school and some were there in person when the teacher was not accommodating them, or was favoring — or seeming to favor — the other group.
So it's a real issue and it's something that we're going to have to deal with for some time to come.
Brenda Trenowden:
You're absolutely right. It's something we've never done before. And so once again, the companies that are in touch with their staff, and they're listening and they're hearing this and they're continually iterating, I think are going to be the ones that really come through in a more competitive position. A CEO
I was speaking to yesterday, who's very thoughtful about this, said, “I've said to my team, ‘This is how we're going to come back. These are the kinds of days. I think there are a couple of core days that we think everybody should be in.” And then you have to look at it in terms of who you work with, and work it out in terms of collaboration days and at-home days.
But she said, “I told my team, we're going to try it for a few months. And if it doesn't work, we're going to have to rethink it. And there's no shame in coming back and saying, this hasn't worked, we're going to have to try something new.” Maybe it's not a coincidence that she was a female CEO and that she was that open and agile in her thinking.
But she said, you know, “We just don't know until we've done it for a while.” And so once again, being really thoughtful, being in touch with your staff, listening to people and iterating, I think is going to be really critical.
Kristin Rivera:
So as business leaders, I think we all know the power of being data-driven and collecting and using data effectively to make decisions.
Brenda, can you share some of the data that you think people should be tracking around this issue? What should we be capturing? What should we be tracking and using in our decision-making?
Brenda Trenowden:
It's interesting you asked that because in the UK, most people know that we track gender pay gap, and that's something all companies with a certain number of people have to report publicly.
And it's not about equal pay for equal work. It's that structural gap. So on average, how much do men get paid more than women — typically because there are more men in higher-paid roles than women. So during the pandemic companies didn't have to report. Some of them still did, but they didn't have to because they had so many other things they were doing.
And this year the date's been pushed back a bit. So companies, instead of reporting in April will report in October. And what we expect to see, conversely, is that the pay gap will go down. Not because women are getting paid more or are in more highly paid roles, but because a lot of the low-paid women on zero-hour contracts or lower-level pay have lost their jobs — and really weirdly, that will improve the gender pay gap. So we've really got to be careful with numbers. And certainly our teams at PwC are all ready to dig in and analyze that data and make sure that companies aren't claiming credit for sacking the women. But I guess it's really thinking of those metrics of looking at how many people are in jobs at certain levels.
Looking at hiring rates, looking at promotion rates, looking at mentoring programs and things. I mean, we have something here that's very popular around returnships, as well. So, you know, how many people are coming back into the workforce who’ve had career breaks? We actually create all these returnships, which are just like graduate internships, to encourage women back in if they've had a break for looking after children or caring responsibilities, whatever it might be. And people are starting to look at which companies even have those programs and how many women are coming back in through them. And it's really about making that on-ramp accessible and not too steep. So looking at ways you can measure that.
Also looking at which firms are actually even disclosing these policies. Which ones are even talking about it. We often go through and look through annual reports and company reports, and we'll look at how many times they mentioned these things in their reports and whether they even cover it at all. And so if a company isn't talking about it, I think the question is, well, why not?
Is there a reason they're not? So, you know, the date is going to be different by industry and some companies will disclose more than others, but I think what we tend to look for is who is actually tracking the progress and how are they measuring it, and how are they actually showing us that they're doing something. And the pressure isn't just coming from those of us that are interested. The pressure's coming from ESG investors. They're all asking for this. I spoke to a law firm yesterday that has hired three people in I and D just to respond to all the client requests about gender and race. Because the general counsels that hire them want to know how many people do they have, how many women do they have, and at what levels? How many ethnic minorities do they have and at what levels? And they want to know about what they're doing and they want to start measuring progress. So, it's coming from all angles, and I think companies can't avoid it. So data reporting, transparency — it's not going away.
Kristin Rivera:
I agree, Brenda, it is definitely not going away, and it feels like we're really at the beginning of a new era. So the question is, where do we start? In many ways, this requires a broader transformation for many business leaders. What steps would you recommend that companies take today to get them started on a path forward?
Brenda Trenowden:
So, earlier we talked about the fact that some of these issues that we've seen come out in the pandemic are really due to centuries of structural problems, right? So, you know, I do think some of those age-old issues around thinking about caring responsibilities, thinking about shared parental leave, for example, I've been amazed to see a number of big investment firms, global firms. Who've come out recently offering shared parental leave. One of them entitles all of their staff to 26 weeks of fully paid leave for each employee within the first year after a child is born.
And even if you have the husband and wife or the partners, whatever those partners may be, it can be same-sex partners, both working at the same firm, they both get that leave. And so there are some real pioneers out there trying to shift some of these in-built structural challenges that we have. Other companies — and actually the same one I just mentioned also offers a week of general caring leave for everyone. So, whether that's caring for aging parents or distant relations, whatever, just being very mindful about what are those barriers, what are those issues that we've seen in the past? I mean, I mentioned returnship programs.
We at PwC have done a lot of work on this and what people perceive to be some of the challenges for women to come back into work when they've been out for a while aren't really there. You hear women saying, “I'm worried, I won't be able to manage the technology.” Well, most of us now have better technology at home than we have at work.
So that isn't really a problem. And that doesn't last very long. And what we've found ourselves is that we bring some of these women in through returnships. And we think that they'll need six months of shadowing, some of our client-facing teams, and after six weeks they're doing as well or better. So I would encourage companies to really think more broadly and find ways to tap into those wide talent pools. Find ways to reduce barriers, have much more diversity in thinking about designing systems and designing programs. Benefits, as well — traditional benefits need to be much more bespoke. Think about employee value propositions. All of those things have been turned on their heads through the pandemic, because everybody that has had more time outside of the office and at home has really thought carefully about how they live their lives, how they want to live their lives, and about their social contract with their employers.
And so once again, the companies that are more thoughtful and more pioneering I think are really going to succeed and are going to have a competitive advantage in that war for talent. And when you think about talent, women are 50% — in many cases, more than 50% of the workforce. So let's not forget some of the biggest talent pools that we have out there.
Kristin Rivera:
And I will add since you mentioned that, that women are 50% of the population, we focused our conversation today on women. But Brenda, I think you'd agree that many of your recommendations and insights apply to other categories of people who may have been disadvantaged during the pandemic, as well. I want to thank you for joining me today, Brenda. This was a great conversation and I really appreciate your time.
Brenda Trenowden:
Thanks so much, Kristin, it's really been great to be with you today and I really enjoyed the conversation.
Kristin Rivera:
In our next episode, we'll continue with our workforce of the future series. I'll be joined by Suzanne Fisher Roski, a PwC partner who led the architecture and adoption of PwC’s new ways of working.
Remember to subscribe to our podcast series, “Emerge stronger through disruption,” wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to connect with Brenda and me on LinkedIn. Until next time, thanks for listening.