The Boyk Brief
Go into chambers with attorneys Chuck Boyk, Mike Bruno, Zac Shaffer, and the attorneys of Charles Boyk Law Offices on The Boyk Brief, as we talk with interesting personalities from the legal world, celebrities, experts, business & community leaders, and other engaging people about a variety of topics.
The Boyk Brief
Boyk Brief - Episode 25: Meet Jesse Scott
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Attorney Chuck Boyk talks with Law Clerk Jesse Scott about his inspirational journey from High School football prospect in Portsmouth, OH to overseas deployment with a U.S. Army Psychological Operations Unit, a year as a Maximum Security Prison Guard, and onto the University of Toledo Law School.
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We have an interesting guest today. We have Jesse Scott. Jesse is a third-year law student at the University of Toledo Law School. He's the current managing editor of the University of Toledo Law Review. He is a law clerk at our law firm, and he has a fascinating background. He's had a lot of obstacles in his life. And the interesting thing is every one of those obstacles in the short term was bad, but in the long term turned out to actually be an opportunity. So he's a perfect example of if life hands you a lemon, make lemonade out of it. And oftentimes the bad things in our life turn out to be the best things in our life. Jesse, I'm glad you're with us today. Glad to be here, Chuck. Thank you. Okay. So why don't you start out? Tell us a little bit about your background, where you grew up, your family situation and everything, and then get us to high school, and then we'll talk about high school.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it's really a wild ride from the beginning. Um, yeah, I'm from Southern Ohio, Sado County. Um, everybody thinks Joe Burrow is southern Ohio. Well, he's Athens. That's that's still pretty far north by my standards. Um, yeah, I'm right on the um Kentucky, West Virginia, Ohio tri-state area. So you you have a really uh strong meshing of cultures. Um, you think West Virginia, you think of you know coal mines, then Kentucky, you think the same, and then Ohio, you don't really uh associate that too much, but it it's very similar in culture, very similar in socioeconomic status, very similar in economic outlook. Um so as an only child, um, you know, uh parents both went to high school, uh, and that was as first in education as they got, and that's very, very common for that area. Um, most people don't make it out, most people don't have the means or even the uh ability to go get a uh college education or even get out of the area. So, you know, one thing that I always remember my parents telling me the entire time I was growing up was if you want to be rich or you you want to live well, go get a college education. Um, you know, looking back, that's kind of funny because you know you and I both know uh that uh just uh the the college degree does not equate riches and success, but um you know that that that's that's something that was always instilled in into me. Um you know, my uh my mother stayed home to kind of take care of me, um, take care of the house, and my dad would work um as much as he could. And um the entire time growing up, up until you know the last um handful of years, it was a uh not a dead-end job, but it wasn't a uh a job or a career that really provided a vigorating lifestyle. You know, and that that that that's the that's the common theme for a lot of people in that area is you're just working paycheck to paycheck. You know, you you you look at things well in advance, you know. You you know you need to buy a new pair of work boots, or you know that winter's coming up, so you need to buy a new coat. That's something you start budgeting for months in advance because whenever that cold weather rolls around, you just don't have the luxury of walking into the store and buying it. It's something you have to plan well in advance, and then that's the same for a lot of things. Um, I can remember um one year I needed a uh um a pair of equipment for sports, and that was something that had to be really thought about was well, how do we buy this? It's not from a lack of effort, and it's not from a lack of um work, and it's not from a lack of want, it's just the way that life is and the situation a lot of people in that area find themselves in.
SPEAKER_00So um, it sounds like you weren't uh born on third base.
SPEAKER_01Um, no, definitely not. Um my parents will probably end up listening to this podcast, and uh they may get a little upset with me, but um it's it's wow to think about and look at. Um, I I can remember not having um a lot of things, and I I thought that was normal. You know, you you get used to a certain lifestyle, and you think that's the norm, and then you go to a friend's house or you go to an after-school program, and you're like, wow, this person has XYZ. This is so cool, they must be so affluent, and it's just it's just not the case, it's just um you know what you're used to and what's normal for you.
SPEAKER_00It sounds like your parents taught you um, you know, if you were going to become successful, it was up to you.
SPEAKER_01That's exactly it. Um, yeah, I'm a firm believer in that everybody's life is in their hands. Um, some people have a little bit more of an advantage, some people have a lot more advantage, actually. I mean, let's be frank. Um, and you can kind of make whatever you want out of your life, you know, barring some uh other factors, but for for the average individual, you can do whatever you want. Um, and that's something my parents always told me. Um, you're not limited, you know, just because you're you know born in southern Ohio, uh up a holler in a trailer, that that's that's not what you're limited to. You can do whatever you want. You can go be a school teacher, you can be an attorney, you can be a doctor. You just have to go after it and get it. And that's something that they uh always told me, and it's something I've really taken to heart, and it's something that's provided very well for me um so far in my life. Yes.
SPEAKER_00So in high school, I know you've explained to me that you thought your way out was you're gonna be a college football player and that was gonna pay for your education. And maybe tell our listeners uh what position you played and how big you were in high school.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh that's that's a good question because it gets me uh able to talk on a few things. I knew I wanted to go to college, but I had no way to pay for it. You know, I had no idea what a FAFSA was, I had no idea what student loans were. I mean, hell, I barely knew what college was. I knew that's where you went to go learn something. Um, and yeah, that's what I thought all the way until I was a senior in high school. Um, so you can't really tell on camera, but I'm a I'm a fairly large guy. I'm 6'4, about 280 now. Um, but back in high school, I mean, I was still 6'4, but I was pushing about 300 pounds. And uh, yeah, as I started get entering high school, you know, it was freshman sophomore years. Um, you know, the football coach is like, hey, you're a big kid, you should come play. Um, you might like it, you might get to go to college for it. It's like, oh, great, college. That's where I want to go. So I really invested myself in learning the sport, learning how to play the score and just being big and strong. I was an offensive lineman. Um, that's really that's where they stick us big guys at. Um, just kind of going and fighting those trenches. So I I viewed that as my way of kind of breaking out. If I trained um you know in the weight room, if I trained on the field and truly became a disciple of my sport, my position, that was my way of getting out of southern Ohio to go learn, go experience and grow as an individual. And if I come back, great. If not, awesome too. So that was uh that was the goal, and that really worked out for a while. Um, you know, I was being scouted, um, yeah, ended up with a lot of honors on the field, but unfortunately, um in my senior season, very first game of the year, had a knee injury, um, fourth quarter punt return. It was terrible. And uh, you know, as you can probably speculate, nobody wants to take an offensive lineman with a bum knee. Uh, you know, that's that's one of the first things that goes on us big guys, and to already have that injured prior to college is uh is a real turnoff for an athlete.
SPEAKER_00So were you looking at that time? Do you think you would have been like potentially like a Mac level recruit?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, I had I had it's ironic, I ended up in Toledo anyways. Uh, I took a few visits, uh, the University of Toledo football team uh came there for their junior day and a couple um before and between that junior senior year, um, Akron as well. Uh Marshall down in West Virginia. I had some interest from them. Um, and then I had a couple division two, division three schools reached out uh in that time as well. So, yeah, I would consider myself a Mac level recruit. I wasn't good enough for the Big Ten or SEC. But I mean, Mac football is very competitive. Um, we get a lot of uh athletes from the Mac level go pro anyways.
SPEAKER_00And you're from uh Portsmouth, Ohio, and I know that uh Chuck Ely was from Portsmouth, Notre Dame high school, and he's probably considered the greatest player ever at the University of Toledo.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, he just got inducted with the College Football Hall of Fame a couple weeks ago. Um, so yeah, I mean he's right from Portsmouth, Portsmouth, Notre Dame, very close to where to high school at. Um, very, very similar, very similar area.
SPEAKER_00So um all of a sudden you realized, oh my god, my dream of going to college um is disappeared. Um, and I'm assuming that that was kind of difficult for you for a while.
SPEAKER_01It was uh it was devastating. You know, you you spend, I mean, uh at the time you your your entire life. I mean, I was 17 at the time, so three, four, five years seems like your entire life, you know, banking on this one thing to happen, um, banking on this being my way out, this being my way to pay for this, and to literally see that flash before your eyes and go away is it's really tough. Um, you gotta start thinking about other things, you know, instead of thinking about am I gonna play well next Friday night, it's oh man, how high can I get my ACT score in the next few weeks, next few months? How much can I improve my GPA in the next few weeks, few months so that I can be as competitive for any merit-based scholarships that may be available?
SPEAKER_00And and one of the things that you and I have talked about is if you had been a successful football player um at even the Mac level or Division II level, um, realistically, that's a full-time job. And academically, you would not have had the time to really concentrate on academics.
SPEAKER_01Right. You know, it's at the time, I'm 26 now, so you know, eight, nine years ago, it uh it was really, really unfortunate. But in retrospect, I I'm glad it happened. I really am. Um had I went and played four years in CAA level, I would not have learned as much as I have. I would not have had the life experiences that I've had because I would have been a full-time ball player, part-time student. And that's great if you want to make it to the NFL. Um, that's great if the your only aspirations are to play college ball, college ball, and then go out and coach. And I knew I probably wasn't on the NFL, and uh I had no aspirations of being a coach. So for that to kind of falter and go to the wayside worked out really well for me. Okay, so uh why don't you tell us how did you end up paying for college? I enrolled at Shawnee State University, which is the uh State University right in Portsmouth, Ohio. It's a relatively new uh university, it's fairly small. You know, let's be honest, it was cheap, very cheap. So I enrolled there. Um I find out real quick what student loans are, uh, find out real quick, you know, what those interest rates are, and um, I had no idea how to apply for scholarships, had no idea how to negotiate with universities, try to get more financial aid and uh scholarships. So I I start my first semester and I'm working. Uh I'd worked at a local fast food place from sophomore year of high school all the way to now, you know, just trying to pay for gas, pay for you know license registrations, pay for the things that you you need as a an adult, even when you're in high school. And I realized that it's not going to cut it. You know, rent's expensive, food's expensive, textbooks are expensive. So in in these impoverished areas where there's not a lot of things to take advantage of, and there's not a lot of job prospects, and there's just not a lot, a lot of resources, you know, what do you do? Well, you go to the local armed forces career center. Um, ironically, there was one about two blocks away from Shawnee State University. Um, so I walk in, um, and there was only one recruiter present from any of the branches. Uh, it was an army guy. So I sat down, I talked to him. And at this point, I'd already completed my first semester of undergrad. Um, you know, and I had my transcripts with me. I was like, hey man, I gotta figure out how to pay for this. Here's my background a little bit. Here's my transcripts, what can we do? And uh pretty shortly after that, I found myself signing on the dotted line and enlisting the Army Reserve for a total of eight years.
SPEAKER_00That's something. I mean, you signed away eight years, that's uh that's a long time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, it's funny you put it like that. At the time, you're just trying to find like how do I pay for this college? How do I put a little bit of money in my pocket at the time? And you don't really think about well, in eight years from now, what will I be doing? I can tell you what I was doing because that eight-year mark just hit a year ago for me. So I I was uh two years through law school, I was working and it already had a couple deployments under my belt, a couple overseas trips. So yeah, it it is kind of a while to think about signing away for eight years. Um, but when you want to do something and it's a means to an end, that's just what you do.
SPEAKER_00So explain um a little bit uh for the audience about your military experience and then your school experience. And uh it sounded like you know that it it turned out somewhat different than what you originally thought it was gonna be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um it's a it's a it's a fun collection. Um you know, when you think of the military, you think of Call of Duty, you think of the video games, you know, running and gunning, kicking indoors, um, doing all the cool guy stuff. So when I enlisted, um, as I mentioned, they I I had brought the recruiter my transcripts. I had already taken the um ASVAP, which is uh kind of like the aptitude test you take to even get in the military. I had taken that back in high school, uh, to be honest, just get out of class for an afternoon. Um and I I scored really high. Um I trained, I had a 4.0 on my transcript in college, my ASVAP scores really high. So he was like, Hey, have you ever thought about psychological operations? Man, I've never even heard of psychological operations. You know, I I don't know what to think about it. And you know, he um the recruiter explained to me this really interesting thing. You know, you're gonna play in with these ranger teams, you're running, you're gunning, you're kicking indoors, uh, you know, you're uh basically special forces. You know, for anybody in our audience who has a military background, you're probably chuckling at this um typical recruiter lines, and uh probably most importantly, PSYOP is not all of that, it's much more. Um so kind of get back to your question, Chuck. Um, I enlisted and I went to basic training very shortly after signing. So you the the training pipeline for the army is you spend 10 weeks in basic training, um, usually in Fort Benning, uh Georgia, uh Fort Littlewood, Missouri, or even uh down in South Carolina at Fort Jackson, uh, I went to Missouri. So I was there for 10 weeks, and that's just where you learn basic soldiering skills, how to wear a uniform, how to march, uh, how to do a lot of push-ups and sit-ups and running. Um, just your basic training, it's exactly what it sounds like. From there, based on what job you signed for with the recruiter, you go to your advanced training. So since I enlisted as a psychological operations specialist, I went to uh Fort Bragg, North Carolina for an additional 12 weeks to receive uh PSIOP specific training. So I do all that, you know, it's essentially a semester and a half off of school. Uh I finish my training obligations, I come back home, I'm in a drilling status since I'm a reservist. So that just means I um I would go to drill once a month for usually two to three, four days, a couple weeks here and there. And then I'll just continue on with my civilian job or civilian education, whatever I'm doing. So for a couple years, that's what I'd done. Uh yeah, I went to class, worked on my degree, um, then I went and drilled, trained um on the weekends a couple times a month, and like I said, a couple weeks here and there throughout the year. And the first big thing came. Um I was just starting my junior year of undergrad. You know, so that's when you start getting into your uh major specific classes, things start getting a little bit more intense, interesting in your degree studies. Um I get a phone call saying, hey, we have a rotation going to Germany. Um, we want you to go. It's like, okay, cool. Like, what are the dates on this? You know, is it over summer break? Um, you know, what's that look like? Um, so it was not over summer break because right in the middle of the semester. So I went. Um, so I spent some time in Germany, but I did not stop going to school. I just started the semester several weeks late. So by the time I came back to uh the United States and kind of got back in Ohio and at Shawnee, I was several weeks behind at classes. And yeah, I can just remember the existential crisis I felt going to class and being so far behind and realizing, you know, oh man, how am I going to catch up and you know learn everything and then get current. Um, so that worked out. Uh still ended up getting on keeping my 4.0 at the time. And the the real big, I don't even want to call it a clash, but conflict between the military and my school came right when I was getting ready to start my senior year of undergrad. Um, I get another phone call saying, hey, uh, we're deploying, we're going overseas, uh, you're on the rotation, we're gonna be gone for approximately a year. So it's like, man, years a long time. Uh, I want to deploy, I want to go serve the country, I want to um go do PSYOP in practice, but I also don't want to delay my education any further because I've already kind of pundited it off for a year to go through basic and AIT um and other things. So I started talking with university, I started talking with my advisor, I started talking with um you know the deans over there, and you know, keep in mind this is pre-COVID. You know, this is pre-Zoom, WebEx, um, everything being available online. And I asked, like, what if I do this? What if I complete my degree online? I have two semesters left, I'm in completely electives. This is something I can do. Will you be flexible with me and allow me to do this? And thankfully, um, my advisor, or actually two advisors, really, really fought for me and made that happen. So while I was overseas in East Africa, you know, I would do my job, you know, a job, military job, all day, evening, night sometimes, and then whenever I could catch a few hours to um kind of distance myself from that, I would go and do school. You know, I remember one time I was in cultural anthropology class, um, my very last semester, you know, cultural anthropologies, you know, studying how cultures work and communicate. And it is really interesting. And so I'm reading this uh this online excerpt about East African cultures, and I'm like, I I'm in East Africa right now. I can just go outside. You know, why would I read this from a textbook? You know, online excerpt. I'm I'm here, I'm living it. Um, I can just walk outside my door and talk to a foreign national. Um so you mean it it it clashed a lot, you know, and that that's something that really any reservists, any national guards then faces. But you you make it happen.
SPEAKER_00So you were in Somalia, you get back from Somalia, explain what happened next.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so while I'm overseas, yeah, I I get pretty dead set on that. I want to go to law school. Um it's something I had thought about at the time, and it was time to put that into effect. So I get back um roughly around July, but it's too late to start to take the LSAT. You know, LSAT being the the entrance test that we all have to take. We go to law school. Uh it's too late to take that, it was too late to tour law schools, it was too late to really start for that year. So I knew I had about 12 months before I could really go to law school. So I knew I had bills to pay, I knew I had rent to pay, I knew I had financial obligations. And being back in southern Ohio at that time, it's well, what what can I do to provide for myself and my family and still try to get ready to go to law school? So anybody back home uh may maybe may be listening to this. You know, you go work at the hospital, uh, you go work with your dad or uncle, or you go out to prison. Um, and I went out to the prison. That prison being Southern Ohio Correctional Facility. Some people listening to this may recognize the name. Uh, it was home to the nation's longest prison riot back in 1993, Easter Sunday. It's still up and operational in Sider County, uh, Ohio, and Lucasville. And uh I was a correctional officer there. You know, it was a state job, state benefits, and for Southern Ohio, it pays pretty well. Um, there's not too many places that you can walk in um with no experience and potentially make 40,000, 60,000, $65,000 a year.
SPEAKER_00So you were working at a maximum security prison as a as a prison guard, a correctional officer, and I'm assuming on a daily basis you got to um meet with the bloods, the crips, and the Aryan nation.
SPEAKER_01Uh much more than that. I mean, we have the C Dubs, uh, Cincinnati White Boys, uh, Aryan Brotherhood, uh, we have the Black Gangster Disciples, uh, we have the Latin Kings, uh, we have the Black Gorilla Gang. Um, let's see, the convicted felons, the or excuse me, the convicted family, the heartless felons. It the list goes on, Chuck. You come up with uh a catchy name and there's a gang named after it.
SPEAKER_00And and you indicated to me that you were saying that um on a daily basis people would try to why don't you just describe what what would you encounter on a daily basis?
SPEAKER_01It uh it was never good. You know, prison is it's a wild place. Um like you mentioned, this was a maximum security facility. So so this is really doing it the worst of the worst. You don't automatically go to Lucasville, you you get there by offending and digressing and forcing yourself into that upper uh security classification. So at the beginning of my I work second shift most of the time. Um, you know, so my day would start around 1 30 p.m. and I would go in. And the first thing you notice when you walk in one of these blocks is it's hot. It is so hot. You know, you're in your uniform um and you're walking the range is you check and look in the cells and make sure that nobody's dead. You know, that sounds you grotesque, but that's the first thing you want to check on because uh the the suicide rates high, the assault rate is high, the drug overdose rate is high, and the first thing as soon as you come on shift, you you just you you do a ring check, make sure that nobody's dead. And just just even in doing that, you know, walking and looking in these cells, you would see some wild stuff. Um you know, self-mutilation, um, just contraband, uh drug usage. And yeah, I want to be clear that that this isn't happening because of lack of effort from staff or prison administrators. It's just the the type of inmate that we dealt with at SOCF. Um, even looking at recreational periods, it's so common to hear across the radio or um get told that, hey, there's a 12-man fight down in the rackyard. You know, there's a 10-man fight, gang fight in M1 gym. It's just every day. Um you know, I've I've had um uh fecal matter thrown on me, I've had urine thrown on me just because I'm a correctional officer and they're an inmate. It's just uh it's the wild west, except not as fun. You were there what approximately a year? Just under a year. I I put in my two weeks' notice because you know I got accepted into law school here in Toledo.
SPEAKER_00You moved to Toledo, the big city, um, and you start law school, and then you indicated that you decided to go back into the military.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm uh I'm glutton for pain, Chuck. Um, so I I leave the prison, uh, moving to, like you said, Toledo, which is not that big of a city, but it was a really big city to me when I first moved here. Um, I got lost almost every time I left my house for the first year. Lots of GPS usages to get to Walmart. Um and my first year of law school, which is undoubtedly the hardest, uh, one of the more challenging things I've done. Um, I was still in the Army Reserve. Like I said, I signed that eight-year contract. Um, so I was fulfilling those obligations. And then my uh my time came up, and I had uh left the military. I was out for probably a total of two or three months, maybe. And I missed it. You know, you you do something for so long, and something that's um really special to you and provided so much to you, and something as interesting, great as serving our nation. That's hard to put to the side. And that's something that's hard to completely get yourself out of. So by this time, I completed my undergrad degree. I was halfway through law school. Um, so I started looking around what programs are available for me to come back in um that I can utilize my education, my uh previous military experience, and even my life experience. And I got really, really lucky, and I had a friend who uh was also well, he's a med student here in Toledo, and he was looking um of going into a direct commission program to help get some of his med school debt paid for. And I'd went with him uh talking to a recruiter, and I was it was like a light bulb. I was like, oh wow, like why didn't I why didn't I think about this? You know, well, can I take advantage of this opportunity? So a few phone calls later, a couple days later, um, I get in touch with a uh naval uh talent acquisition group out of Detroit. And you know, I'm talking to this guy. He's like, Yeah, I think you'd be a great fit, uh great candidate to apply for an intelligence off intelligence officer position through our direct commission uh program. So that's a little bit different than how most military officers get their commission. Um, it the most common route is going through an ROTC program or even OCS. Uh ROTC being you do it while you're going through your undergrad for four years. OCS being you apply and you go do about three weeks or excuse me, three months um in this pretty rigorous program and hopefully get accepted at that point. Well, I I got I kind of cut through all of that. You know, I submitted a package um and after several interviews, several board evaluations, um, that that was all I had to go through, and I received my commission. So that happened in July of 2021. Um, since then I've had been serving as an intelligence officer in the Navy Reserve. Um, it's been great. You know, I get to take all these life experiences that I've had, um, all my educational experiences, and most importantly, my experiences working overseas with troops uh on the ground and actually lead sailors now. Um, actually lead mission sets to make sure that we are being as effective as we can and as efficient as we can to achieve the mission, and more importantly, looking after my subordinates, um, looking after those appointed under me to ensure that I'm being the best leader as I can uh while still serving my nation, my branch, and accomplishing the mission.
SPEAKER_00So, what what's your rank and how long is your commitment currently?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I'm an ensign right now. Um, so you come in the Navy as an officer, that's that's that's where you start out as. Um, you know, I I should promote, you know, fingers crossed, nothing bad happens uh within a couple years. Um so I'm will be in the Navy Reserve for at least six years. Um that's my uh minimum commitment with them, but I have no doubt that I'll um be well past six years. Uh I'll probably eventually retire from one of the armed services. I hopefully I don't make another branch switch, uh, probably retire out of the Navy uh in another 20 years.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, one of the things once again, um if you hadn't needed to pay for college, you wouldn't have had any of these adventures.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's exactly it. You know, I always make the joke, and you know when I interviewed here, Shuck, I think I said it in our interview, and at the time uh I really questioned it. Um, and it was I grew up poor, I never got over it. It's true. Um you you you grow up always wanting something, not not having something. And don't get me wrong, I was always clothed, I was always fed, I was always taken care of, but you know, it it wasn't equitable to things around me. And because I didn't have those things, and because I didn't have a way to pay for college, I just I went after things. You know, I I get made fun of by my friends all the time because I'm always committing to things, I'm always throwing myself into things. I I don't say no enough because I don't want to pass up on an opportunity because I never know what that opportunity may actually manifest manifest itself into later in life. You know, had had I said no to um want to even play football in high school when I was a freshman and when I was a freshman, it who knows where I'd be at. You know, I never would have saw that as my way out, I never would have hurt my knee, I never would have had to go enlist, I I wouldn't be here. You know, it's and really what you make out of it.
SPEAKER_00Right. I think it's impressive that um you create your own opportunities. And so the example is um we didn't have an ad out, we weren't looking to hire anybody and explain how you got the job here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh my previous firm, um uh the work kind of dried up and I got let go from there um right before Christmas, which was really, really not a great time for that to happen. Um and I I I knew that I wanted experience and I knew that I wanted to work for a firm that could utilize me and what I bring to the table. So, you know, updated my resume and I just started emailing firms. I I hadn't didn't know anybody that worked here. I had never spoken to anybody at Boyk Law Offices, I didn't care. Uh I just emailed the the main main email, said like, hi, I'm looking for a job, would really like to come in sometime. And within an hour, um, I had an email back sending up an interview time. It's just like you said, it's a good example of you can get punched, you you can take it on the chin and sit there and wait a while, or you can go make something out of it. Um and it's it's really up to you. It's really up to the individual. What do you want to accomplish and how how hungry are you to achieve that?
SPEAKER_00Thank you very much, Jesse, for telling uh us your story. Um I think you're just uh at the beginning of your adventure, and uh I think there's going to be nothing but uh success in the future for you. So thank you very much. Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Chuck.