Kim Katre - Leaving Law, Finding Yoga

Welcome to Episode 5 of The Yoga Den Podcast

This week, I'm joined by fellow BigLaw dropout, Kim Katre.

Kim is an ex-BigLaw lawyer who like myself, has worked in both London and Singapore, where she's now based.

Now a yoga teacher and founder of Together Yoga, Kim has a regular schedule of classes and has built up quite a following.

I loved this conversation with Kim. It was great to talk to someone who had also walked the road from BigLaw to yoga.

But as I said in the opening episode, the issues affecting lawyers are in many ways universal and I think that anyone listening to the show will leave with a host of useful insights

Some of the things Kim and I discussed are:

- the lack of autonomy in BigLaw,

- the stress and anxiety of corporate life;

-  and connecting with your inner child.

There's also a story about the time a partner at Kim's former law firm tried to cancel Christmas. But Kim said no.

So sit down, go grab yourself a drink, and let's do this!

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To follow Kim and find out more about her teaching:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/togetheryogasg/

Website: https://togetheryoga.business.site/

Yoga Lab: https://www.yogalab.com/
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Transcript

Kim Katre: 0:01

You know, I think real life is that, you know, we do have to work hard. And the reality is now with international firms that you can literally pick up the phone to different jurisdictions all the way through the day all the way through the night, and there really is no OFF button. And particularly, you know, in light of everything going on now with home based working and accessibility to emails and zoom calls, and whatever it is, you can't, you can't really get away. But yeah, I absolutely encourage people to just put a pause and take a step back and just ask, you know, if this is where they want to be.

Ryan Spence: 0:40

Welcome to The Yoga Den. Are you a stressed out cog in the corporate wheel? Do you find yourself asking, What am I doing? and Why am I doing it? Then The Yoga Den, is the place for you. I'm your host, Ryan Spence, aka, The BigLaw dropout, writer, yoga teacher, and your guide on the path to wellbeing through yoga. Yoga helped me find my purpose changed my mindset, and my life. And in this podcast, I'll share how to live a life of intention not reaction. Each week, I'll be talking to a variety of guests, uncovering pearls of wisdom to help you figure out, if where you;re heading is where you really wanna go. I won't find your purpose for you, but I'll help you plan the route. So sit back grab a drink. I've been expecting you. Hello, welcome to episode five of The Yoga Den Podcast. This week, I'm joined by fellow BigLaw dropout, Kim Katre. Kim is an ex BigLaw lawyer who like myself, has worked in both London and in Singapore, where she's now based. Now a yoga teacher and founder of Together Yoga SG, Kim has a regular schedule of classes are one of the students here in Singapore, where she's built up quite a following. I really love this conversation. It was great to go back and forth with somebody on the issues around big law. But I think that anyone out there really get a lot from this, because the issues are universal. We talk about things such as the lack of autonomy in BigLaw, the stress and anxiety and how that led Kim to yoga and connecting with your inner child. There's also a story about how a partner effectively tried to cancel Christmas. But Kim said no. So sit down, go grab yourself a drink, and let's do this. Okay, Kim. Welcome. Welcome to The Yoga Den.

Kim Katre: 2:39

Thank you. Thanks, Ryan. It's great to be here. I don't stay. Yeah, I'm doing actually really good. I just went to my first yoga class since circuit breaker for myself, so I'm feeling very good. Very relaxed.

Ryan Spence: 2:53

Excellent. Yeah, it's a. I was just saying it's quite difficult to get into a class at the moment with the restrictions. But uh, yeah, even when you're teaching yourself, you practice yourself at home. Sometimes just going to a class. It's quite nice.

Kim Katre: 3:05

It is. Yeah, it's nice to be back in the studio environment. And I think that, thankfully, in Singapore, places that opening up, and there's enough mats for everyone to kind of come back into the studio. So they're still offering the kind of same, you know, online stuff that and it is nice to be back with real people.

Ryan Spence: 3:23

Yes. In real life, more virtual.

Kim Katre: 3:26

Yes.

Ryan Spence: 3:28

So what's interesting is we've we've both made the switch from, from BigLaw to to yoga. And in fact, we were we were in the same building for a period of time and in our respective firms. What, how long we are loyal for and how long has it been since you were since you escaped?

Kim Katre: 3:50

So I was a yoga, I was a yoga. See, there you go. I just kind of get your brain. I was a lawyer for about six years. That was in between Singapore and London. So same as you. And I decided to leave the law when I became pregnant with my sons, I was having twins, and I just kind of felt like it was a natural break in life to just take some time to you know, to raise a family. And so that was four years ago. My boys just turned four in July. And so yeah, six years in the law and four years out a decade and all.

Ryan Spence: 4:32

Wow. Yeah, some time. I think I was. I think I did about 11. So yeah, about half the amount of time is

Kim Katre: 4:38

Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Spence: 4:39

Wow. So twin boys. that's a that's a handful.

Kim Katre: 4:43

Yeah, it is. You know, it's it's amazing. There's never a dull moment. And it's, it's very special. And you know, I'm very grateful that I have the time to spend with the boys and you know, obviously full credit to people that carry on well. In BigLaw, whilst you know, continuing to have young children and my husband is also a lawyer, we actually met at a law firm. So for me, it was the both parents having that role, you know, in work, and then being able to be there at home. And that's kind of what made me make the choice of leaving. And but obviously, it was it was triggered by a lot of other things as well.

Ryan Spence: 5:27

Yes, um, I guess it is, I mean, for a lot of people who leave the law, that there might be sort of a headline reason, but there was definitely the the environment and the culture, which is, which is something that I, I want to touch on. Did you know when you left that, you'd be leaving? I guess, forget, I mean, things can always change? And did you know what she wants to do instead?

Kim Katre: 5:52

I think at the time, at no, my focus was very much on, you know, the boys and, and just kind of personal life stuff. And I mean, even as you say, nothing's permanent. And I can't honestly say now that I won't go back to it. And I don't think I would go back to the type of law that I did before. And, you know, working in the law firm structure, and that, you know, I'm always keeping options and is open for opportunities. And, but no, I didn't know at the time, and I didn't have a clear direction. And I, I try to now I strive to have a clear direction. And, but it's, um, I wouldn't want to say that it's kind of the end, you know, and that's something I'd never want to go back to. I mean, obviously, I have a huge respect for the industry. And I worked very hard to get to where I was in that role. You know, it was a lot of years of education, a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of effort. And so, you know, obviously you want to live your life, kind of thing able to to honour that. And at the same time, it's just trying to make the right decisions for your personal life as well. So it's all a big kind of balancing act, isn't it?

Ryan Spence: 7:18

Yeah, balance is a is definitely a big thing. And as you said, there, yeah, you spend a lot of time working towards getting into getting into the right firm for you and progressing. And, you know, that there's, there's good things about being that but as he touched on earlier, that there are certainly issues that can affect your well being and also affects your your view as to what you thought you were getting into. Do you want to expand a little bit more on that?

Kim Katre: 7:50

Yeah, I mean, I think that the way that, you know, the traditional law firm operates, especially when you're operating at the top level, you know, you're talking about the top five to 10 law firms in the world. And there is a certain expectation, and that expectation, obviously comes through the fact that clients are paying big bucks, so they expect you to give everything and, and obviously, you know, the pressure directly comes down from the clients to the partners and it and it feeds down, obviously, you know, to the senior associates, the associates, the juniors, the trainees, so when you're kind of at the bottom of that pile, it's very hard to see the bigger picture. And you don't even know the bigger pitch, you know, you don't know what the areas are, that we're kind of focusing on as a firm. And so I think that you can feel a little bit lost. And, and I think like anything in life, if you want to be at the top of your game, you've got to work hard, you know, you have to and so, it's not so much about having to work hard and having to put in the hard graft, because, you know, you have to if you want to be successful and to get somewhere, and the more you put in, the more you put out with anything. And but I think that the way that it kind of flows down the structure to the junior years, and it kind of results in just a complete lack of autonomy, and a lack of feeling like you have any control over your direction. And, and that's very unsettling when you've worked extremely hard to get to where you are at that point. And you feel a bit lost. And but but you're working, you know, you're working your ass off, you're not sleeping, you're not exercising, you've got no time for your friends, you're having to cancel dinners, holidays, that that's just normal. You know, that's what people do. And it almost comes with a little bit of like a medal. If you do that. Did you hear you know that so and so didn't end up taking their paternity leave? You know, it's almost like a badge of honour. And that, I think when I got to that point, I think it was one year at Christmas, and most in Singapore, and, you know, away from family and Christmas is no big deal back home. And I was trying to make it as much to feel like being at home was suppose in Singapore. And I've been working so hard over November in December on, you know, a number of deals, and they finally closed on the 23rd of December, and I was so happy, you know, I'm gonna go and do my Christmas shopping, I'm gonna go and see my friends and this. And then the partner came in and said, you know, look, I've got a new deal for you. It's closing on the 31st. And, you know, I literally threw my toys out of the pram. And I wouldn't say that I'm massively proud of the way that I reacted, but I was tired. You know, I was really, really looking forward to just having some time to myself, and I just had to say, No, I can't, I can't do that. But there are so many people in the industry that don't say no. And, and they just feel like they can't. And, you know, obviously, it affected me, I think it affected my grade I was given for that year. And, but for me, I, I, for me, the bigger picture was it was Christmas, I'd worked hard for the year, and I needed that. And that, you know, just a circumstances like that coming and going. And that, yeah, that for me is something that certainly makes it an extremely challenging place to work. And but I wouldn't in any way want to bring down the industry or the people that are still there, you know, it's just Is there a way to kind of make it more beneficial, more more positive for the people that are working really hard?

Ryan Spence: 12:00

I think you've painted a picture there that many, many people can can relate to. So so many things to unpack out of that. And I think the first thing that stands out for me is when you mentioned autonomy, because that's immediately what what came to my mind. having control over over your life over your being is so important. And when you don't have that, and you don't have that for a consistent period of time, it's obviously obviously going to affect you. Because then work does become all encompassing, because you kind of feel like you have to do what's being asked, which then goes on to what you were saying. I mean, the fact that you could turn around and could say no, is fantastic, because a lot of people don't. But then as you said the knock on from that is that it affects you, it affects the grade you get in your appraisal or affects your promotion. And so that's always in the back of your mind, when people are saying to you from outside of the law, I will just say no, just say didn't mean you can't or you're not worried or whatever. But that's always the thing is that what if I want to progress? And the thing is, because you're so inside that bubble, and I found this is that you think that progressing is kind of what you have to do, because you're there, that's kind of what you've done all the work for. And you don't really have any alternatives in mind, because you don't even have the time to explore those alternatives. Because you're just in this bubble with everybody else. And everybody thinks that that's what you should do. And so I think what you said is right, it's not that it's not that law, in and of itself is it is an awful career. Not at all. And we've all been there. We're all very ambitious people, we all want to work hard and do a good job. But the model, the model of big law, is it really compatible with the way the world is now and the way that people want to work? And the things that we know, particularly around physical and mental health?

Kim Katre: 13:51

Yeah, I mean, it's also interesting thinking about it from the the older generations perspective, you know, the kind of traditional, you get a job, you stay in that job for 40 years, and you just kind of get on with it, you know? And I think that there are people that say, Oh, what a shame, you know, all that work, and you've just left and could you not have just like seen it through and you would have got promoted and things will get easier as you get higher up. And that's true. I mean, obviously, you're going to get more autonomy as you work your way up the ranks. But the question is, at what cost in those years and nice prime years, you know, not just of your life, but in perhaps your children's lives, which to me was very key. I want to be there. Now. That's my choice as well. I'm not saying that everyone should feel the same. If you want to put your career first and that is essentially you know, your baby, then absolutely do it. I mean, you meet some people and they just love it. And and you can't really judge them, but it's the It's the people that feel that that lack of autonomy, like they are missing out on key parts of life key moments and, and that feeling of Am I gonna look back and regret not leaving. And, and I guess that's like anything in life isn't it, you don't want to look back with regrets. And but it does come back to the point that it's a balance, it's always a balance and you're going to have busy periods at work and, and that's fine, you know, I wouldn't have thrown my toys out of the pram, if I hadn't had been worked so hard up to that point, you know, literally was the straw that broke the camel's back. So, you know, I think real life is that, you know, we do have to work hard. And the reality is now with international firms that you can literally pick up the phone to different jurisdictions all the way through the day, all the way through the night, and there really is no OFF button. And particularly, you know, in light of everything going on now with home based working and accessibility to emails and zoom calls, and whatever it is, you can't, you can't really get away. But yeah, I absolutely encourage people to just put a pause and take a step back and just ask, you know, if this is where they want to be, and if it's making them happy, and if it is amazing, you know, I'd be so happy for the person that finds that kind of fulfilment. And but if it's not, to just have the confidence in yourself, and hopefully to know that you'd be supported by the people around you to make the changes that you need to. Yeah, I think that's so true.

Ryan Spence: 16:45

And when I kind of first started thinking about this podcast, and I spoke to a couple of people, and so on, I said, Well, you know, everyone can can give a well paid career to go off and be a yoga teacher. And there's like, that's, that's kind of not the point, that's not what I'm trying to get to, is trying to get to what you just said, it's, you, you get onto this train you and you just kind of like cruising along, I mean, each year, you're more qualified to get paid a little bit more, you're a little bit more senior. And then before you know it five years have gone by six years have gone by. And it's just taking those periodic moments out. And I always used to say this to junior lawyers you can speak to me is, every year, every sort of year, sort of kind of times a year, just take a step back and just think, am I enjoying this is this where I want to be is it taking me where I want to get to, and that and that's, that's really all that you want people to do. Because if you know that this is what you want to do, then one, you can work accordingly to kind of like keep you on the path that you want. But also, you can also think strategically about how you can kind of take a little bit more control of your direction, as opposed to just kind of being dragged along by I mean, whichever sort of deal comes in at one time, or whichever partner wants you to do whatever. So it's that intention, I think, which is, which is key.

Kim Katre: 17:58

Yeah. And it might be the case that you say, look, you know, I'm not happy where I am. But I, it's about exactly taking control of the situation and saying, Well, I'd like to do more deals in that area, I'd like to work more with this partner, or, you know, it would mean a lot to me, if the hours could just be slightly shifted around like this, and having the confidence to speak to your, you know, the partner, or the senior in your team. And and say that, because at the end of the day, we cannot point fingers, you know, it's your fault that I was unhappy? Well, we have to take responsibility for ourselves. And an absolutely, if you can find a direction in the law, you know, that keeps you happy, which is something that I still believe I might find, you know, I have visions of working perhaps more in an in house type role for a company that I you know, I truly believe in the ethos of, but helping them with with legal functions, because that's my background. That's my training. That's my education. And, and I think that the perfect job is out there for everyone. But no one's going to come and serve it to you on a plate if you've really got to delve deep and kind of learn about what makes you happy. Yeah,

Ryan Spence: 19:18

yeah, you've got to, you've got to do the work. And I'm going to come back to to law a little bit later, because because I really want to talk a bit about corporate wellness, there's been a couple of things that have come up this week, which, which have been quite interesting. But before we do that, let's let's go to to the yoga. So what's your what's your yoga journey? What brought you to your first class?

Kim Katre: 19:42

stress at work?

Ryan Spence: 19:45

A common common answer.

Kim Katre: 19:46

Yeah. And, you know, I was working in Singapore and I just really needed something to release the stress and the anxiety that I felt and so I started going to some Some yoga classes and I remember how tough it was. I remember that feeling where you're just like, and you're looking at the other people in the class thinking, how are you doing that you don't like a pretzel like, I can't even you know, get like, a quarter of the way there. Yes. And, but I loved it. I loved the way that I felt after every class. And I really looked up to the teachers when I left and and I think after having the boys it's really how I refound my fitness. And my strength, I started going back to yoga classes after having the twins. And just, I just loved it, I absolutely loved it, you know, every single class, I just come out and feel like I was just floating. And, and when we moved to Singapore, and so we kind of ping pong from Singapore, to London and London back to Singapore, three years ago, now, I just thought, Okay, well, this is an opportunity to see, and where I can take this interest and this passion. And obviously, I would have loved to have gone and done a teacher training in India for three weeks. And when we Oh, yeah, you know, maybe 10 years ago, and but, you know, having the boys and having to work around that I found a teacher training programme in Singapore that I could do pretty much in working hours. So I opted in to do that, and absolutely loved it, obviously. And have been teaching for two years since then. Yeah.

Ryan Spence: 21:38

And for those for those who are in Singapore, where where did you do your training? And who is your Who's your teacher?

Kim Katre: 21:44

As I did my training with Yoga Lab? Erm and they were my main teachers were Jasmine Chung. Yeah. And Betty.

Ryan Spence: 21:54

Okay, I'm sure we can we can find out. So it's hard to remember names. Yeah, similar to you. I mean, I did my teacher training in Singapore, and I would have loved to go off to to Bali. And I mean, really immerse myself. But even without that, just you're still sick, if you're doing the full time training is still within that yoga bubble, even if you're not kind of away from your home space. And you Yeah, you get so much out of it. One thing about when you're talking about your yoga class, it's funny I was speaking to to another yoga teacher this week as well. And she said something similar. And I was like, yeah, this is common theme of people who are experienced practitioners or yoga teachers, they always seem to have hated the first few classes. And you're like, Why? Why? Why did you teach? Why did you keep going and kind of keep pushing through and pushing through? And, yeah,

Kim Katre: 22:48

yeah, I, I don't I I see. It's just that memory of that first class and just really feeling like you came through, you know, you survived, you made it and, and it's a nice feeling. And, and I think as well, that the reason that I enjoy the teaching so much now is I love seeing that accomplishment for other people, you know, that the people that are still in these jobs, or you know, they've got young kids or they're just so busy or maybe dealing with, you know, a lot of stuff, and personal issues, and they come to class and you just feel like you can give them what that teacher gave to you. And it's amazing, you know, you can't you can't beat that feeling of just making somebody's day better. It's great. Yeah,

Ryan Spence: 23:42

yeah. When you when you see students coming in, maybe they're a little bit frazzled to merch or whatever. And then they go through the sequence on them as the moments in the moment when you know that inside this sort of swearing at you because it's really challenging. And then you open that they open their eyes at the end after after a decent reversal. Oh, and they just look so, so relaxed, so calm and kind of float out of the room. I mean, as a teacher, that's, that's pretty amazing.

Kim Katre: 24:07

It is and you know, I was speaking to a student yesterday who said, I think I'd said something at the beginning of the class, like, you know, just just stop and check in with where your mind is at this moment. And she just said, she just never does that. She just never thinks to even do that. And then having Shavasana I mean, what other activity is there, you know, be at work or exercise or you know, even like going out and watching a film, where you just say, Okay, that was great. I'm now just gonna sit. I'm gonna just close my eyes. And I'm gonna just relax, restore, and really process that whole experience. Nothing, you know, not even a top football game at the end where the players absolutely you know, they've killed themselves. Yeah. Do they get the opportunity to just relax recovered. That restore. And you know, yoga is something very special. And then it just gives people that that space and that time.

Ryan Spence: 25:07

Yeah, it's kind of like it gives you permission because life is sort of lived at such high speeds. And we have all the distractions. And I mean, even now, so working at home and notion that people are taking things a little bit slower, because they don't have to commute. But you're kind of always on because technology kind of allows that to happen. So yeah, when you go to a yoga class, it is a different experience almost to, to any sort of fitness class, because, yeah, if you got the right teacher, they will say things like what you just said, like, check in with your mind or focus on your breath, things, which to us, as teachers are quite instinctive. But having come from the corporate world, you know that in the corporate world, you probably weren't thinking that, because you're always in that sort of permanent state of stress, because you're busy, you haven't eaten you haven't slept in. I mean, you're you're sort of trying to get everything perfect. So giving people the permission to take that time to sort of look inwards, and to sort of take care of themselves really, is really valuable.

Kim Katre: 26:08

Yeah, absolutely. I think and, you know, people just take breath for granted. You know, well, that just happens automatically. I don't need to think about that. I need to think about what calls I need to be on, I need to think about what documents I need to update, I need to think about, you know, what meetings I've got, I don't have time to think about my breath. But um, you should, you really should, because it doesn't take long, and even you know, just finding like a five minutes out of a day to meditate. And you can even do it at your desk. And my goodness, do you feel a difference? Just closing your eyes and focusing on your breath for five minutes. You don't even have to do a yoga class. Yep. And your mind is almost like a filing cabinet. It just suddenly sorts everything out. And you open the eyes and feel so much clearer and more focused. Yeah, yes.

Ryan Spence: 27:01

Yeah, the breath. I mean, as I always say, I mean, everything starts and ends with the breath. Yeah, it's, it is a thing which we take for granted. Because you mean, you just wake up in your breathing, right? You're sleeping, you're breathing. But how often do we take the time to actually just think about how how magical that is, and how important that is, and how, how we can control that. And it goes back to that point about intention. Just taking the base few moments to be intentional in, in how you inhale and how your exhale and how your body feels when you do that, what changes happen? And so even people who think that oh, well, I mean, I can't meditate, my mind's too busy, or you mean, I can't do yoga, I'm not flexible enough. If you can start with breathing, then that will kind of take you down that path, you'll start to sort of see, okay, this is how I can feel this, how am I meant to feel it's best to have that balance, and not supposed to be in that high stress state all the time.

Kim Katre: 27:57

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like anything, you know, it's practice. Yeah. And you start, I think, when I first started trying meditation, you know, I'd set the alarm for two minutes, and then three, and then four, and then five. And then I think during my teacher training, I was up to about 20 minutes. And I'm saying, like, you're not thinking of anything you have just purely in that kind of empty, amazing space. And but then, you know, you don't do it for a month, and suddenly, you're back to two minutes again, and it's like anything, and it's like running, you know, you can say, Oh, I used to be able to do you know, 12k no problems. But you, if you take some time off, or you have an injury and wish you could compare to a bit of a busy period at work, then you go back and you know, you build up again. And, and that's fine. Like so everyone can can definitely do it and start from somewhere. Yeah,

Ryan Spence: 28:50

I think if if people, people in big law, like like we were, and people are in sort of high powered corporate jobs, that's that's the thing, you, you're conditioned to be good at everything. I mean, like that. And so when you sort of sit down for that first time, and you're, you're not great, or you go into that first yoga class, and you're not as as good in inverted commas as everybody else, there's a tendency to think, well, this isn't for me, I'm gonna go back to what I normally do, whether it is running, or whether it's playing football, or whatever. But that consistency is, as you say, is what's important. And the thing about yoga is it's a journey, and you never, you're never perfect, and that's the beauty, you're always learning more, you're always looking inwards and finding out more about yourself and the world around you. So it's approaching, it's reframing it and approaching it in that manner. And then you can start to see the benefits of that.

Kim Katre: 29:43

Absolutely. I mean, I just don't bother about the people on the mat next to you, I certainly feel their energy and you know, and you're kind of moving together and that's special. And but one of the big things that I think people just have to kind of get over Is that? And then at the end of the day, it is about your ego, you know, am I better than that person? Or were they better than me? And you're, you know, you're automatically bringing that kind of stress into the yoga. And so yeah, trying to just distil that and say, actually, this isn't about that person. This is about me. And this is not to say it's my journey.

Ryan Spence: 30:20

Yep. Exactly. So you've been teaching for around two years? Yeah. Do you remember teaching your first class? What was it like?

Kim Katre: 30:30

So after the teacher training? And yes, I do. I do remember because one of the, my favourite yoga instructors actually came? And I was like, No, why,

Ryan Spence: 30:43

wow, that's intimidating.

Kim Katre: 30:44

Why? and it was a full class, I think there were about 25 people or something. And, and I remember just being so stressed that I'm gonna forget the sequence that that was my big worry was like, I'm going to forget, I'm going to forget, and but you know, it's like anything I did it and, you know, wasn't perfect. And that I was pretty proud of myself. And the great thing is that, although it was awful, but my teacher was there, during the class, at the end, he could give me some really, really helpful constructive feedback. And, and you grow with it, you know, again, like anything very much the teaching is very much like your yoga practice. And the more you do it, suddenly, you realise actually, you don't even need to have a sequence plans. Sometimes you go in, and you just kind of feel what people want and what they need, or you have a talk to people, and depending on injuries, the class might take a completely different direction to what you planned. And so yeah, if I, if I look back to that class, I've come on a long way since then, and I'm very grateful for having the the opportunity to teach so much over the past two years. Yeah, it's, it's been, it's been busy. And you know, I sometimes look at the calendar, and I think, you know, I got that. So that's a lot. And you know, especially if you're, you're teaching kind of any powerful or vinyasa type and yoga styles, you want to obviously be demoing. So you know, your body is physically doing these these movements every day. And but I have to say that even if at the start of the morning, you know, when I'm up and it's dark, and because somebody wants a session before they start work, and I think I'm feeling a bit tired. And, you know, I've got so much in the diary. And every time I finish the class, I just think that was amazing. I love it. I love it.

Ryan Spence: 32:41

Yeah, and I never expected that, because you hear a lot about yoga teachers and burnout. And as you say, because you're doing a lot of classes, and you're totally takes on your body. But the times when I've been really tired, and I'm going to teach a class, and I'm so tired, I'm not sure if I can do this. Yeah, you say without a doubt every single time at the end, I feel more energised. And it's that the energy from the students in the room, there's not necessarily lots of people, but it's just just the energy that they're giving off. And the fact that you're you're holding space to allow these people that time and that permission, as we said before, to just just be be with themselves and be present is really, really gives you a lot.

Kim Katre: 33:20

Yeah, and I think you're probably more in line with where their mental state is, you know, the reason they're coming to yoga is because they are tired, and they've got loads on and they just need some time to themselves. And actually those can be the classes, you know, where where you feel the least planned and, you know, you feel the most tired where you really do connect with the students? Because the truth is, that's how most people feel. Yeah, most of the time. Exactly.

Ryan Spence: 33:49

Exactly. Particul rly the people that come from ur former world. So yeah, so ou set up a company Together Yo a, SG, which is, which is is g od and different in the fact t at for a lot of a lot of yoga is yoga practitioners tend to se their name and you haven't d ne that. What was the story beh nd the name? And what would you ay is the ethos behind behind he compa

Kim Katre: 34:15

So the company kind of came about, through my work with the National Arthritis Foundation. And so I started working with that charity, and, and it's one of the oldest charities in Singapore. And so yeah, they really needed a corporate name. They didn't just want a yoga teacher's name. So it was something quite as simple as that. And in terms of choosing the name, I mean, I think yoga just brings people together. And in any scenario, you know, whether and certainly through circuit breaker, doing the classes via zoom and just seeing the connection that it was able to build between People in different countries on different time zones. And, you know, I just, I just love that feeling of togetherness. And and even if you're practising by yourself, you still feel that kind of presence, and you just feel like a deeper meaning. And, you know, I think the the Sanskrit and meaning of the word Yoga is, you know, to bind to yoke to unionise. And which is very much about bringing things together. So, you know, for me, it's quite an important word. My mom hated it, because she said, She's an English teacher. And she said, together, yoga doesn't actually make grammatical sense. Nevermind that. So, um, you know, but now, I love playing with words as well. And I've just finished my prenatal postnatal, and kids yoga teacher training, and I was just looking at the word the other day, and I was like, oh, and she says, to get her. And I was like, right, okay, I gotta do something with that. So yeah. And it came about from a very simple reason of just having to have a corporate name in order to do work with the charity. Okay,

Ryan Spence: 36:11

and how was? How was your work with the charity? I mean, you're so used to teaching your traditional studio classes? What was different about teaching with the charity? And what did you get out of that?

Kim Katre: 36:25

Yeah, so the charity were amazing, they actually created a studio tight room and event Hall. And so you know, they bought all the yoga mats, and the straps and the blocks, and then members of the charity, were invited to come and, and try yoga out. And, you know, it could be for people that had arthritis, whether it was rheumatoid or osteo. And, or just people that were generally maybe family members of those or people that had a general connection with the charity. And so yeah, I've worked very closely with them, and up until circuit breaker to be honest, and then when that happens, you know, they obviously have people that are, you know, high risk and so so we're not continuing the in person classes at this present moment. But um, you know, the time that I I had with them was very special, and they would always invite me to these, you know, big functions because obviously, the charity world in Singapore, you know, is amazing, it's, it's a very dynamic and open community, and I got to kind of go to lots of trainings on different types of arthritis, different types of, you know, stretching and joint movements that you can do and try and, you know, ease the burden on the person that has it. Okay.

Ryan Spence: 37:48

And you'd mentioned earlier that you just finished your, your prenatal and your, your kids yoga, what, what made you want to do those additional trainings.

Kim Katre: 38:01

I think that the, I've all I knew that I wanted to, obviously continue to learn and to develop my skills within yoga. And I done kind of the odd training here and there, as I say, on kind of anatomy and joints. And, and, I mean, honestly, I think the circuit breaker happened and it was like, right, okay, I keep saying I'm gonna do some more training, but now I really have no excuse. And, and, and to me, you know, prenatal really resonates obviously, not just because I've been pregnant. And but I just think it's like an incredible journey. And, and it's also a time that people can feel quite stressed and anxious and apprehensive and there's a lot of changes going on in the body. And so to try and make that experience for the woman you know, as as positive and if they can come out with this, you know, this deep connection with their baby even before they've met them. And and obviously, you know, using the breath you can go into kind of how to use that during labour Even so, you know, it's, it's a really interesting and that kind of lead naturally to the postnatal stuff because, you know, they say like, what is technically a postnatal body and, well, you've always got it after you've had that child. That's it and you speak to women and it's, you know, hips back issues, SPD shoulders from just, you know, breastfeeding on one side and aches and pains in the neck. And yet they just kind of accept that that's normal. Yep. And they just say, you know, I'm really inflexible, I can't do yoga. So it's really lovely to kind of have space for for those women and to really focus on the parts of the body that you know, they just, they need that that attention. Yeah,

Ryan Spence: 39:59

yeah. So I will focus on on healing as well, I think a lot of focus is put on on Yoga is, and I know as fitness or this sort of glamorous thing that only certain people can do. But actually, the benefits are universal. And it can very much be a healing process for a lot of people.

Kim Katre: 40:19

Yeah. And, and also, I think that, you know, people think prenatal yoga like home, they almost think of it like, it must be a type of Yin, you know, very, and it is, it's restorative, it's relaxing, but also it is hard work, I mean, you are building up the leg muscles in the women so that they can withstand the weight so that they stop shifting weight into their toes, because that's what causes all the issues, you know, when when the belly is growing, and then the back starts to get weak. And then that's really where it all spurs on from. So you, it's hard work, I invite people to come to a prenatal yoga class, and they will be shocked, because it's a lot of standing poses, it's a lot of hip openers, it's a lot of chest openers. And, and, and I think that's great, you know, as you say, it's not about fitness, but certainly functional movement, and trying to make sure that you no risk of injury or risk of long term issues for people, it's just, you know, it's it's not as present, and then hopefully just means that people can move more freely. And, and, and not have these aches and pains so much.

Ryan Spence: 41:28

Yeah, I had a conversation with another guest earlier this week, who is also very much focused on posting prenatal pap. And an interesting point that she made is that women have been given birth for thousands of years. And it's just a natural thing that they do. But in the Western world, it's treated very much as being very delicate, it's very medicalized. It's like, okay, you're pregnant, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that. But actually, you can be at your strongest at that point, if you're just given the sort of the space and the direction the freedom to to do that.

Kim Katre: 42:03

Exactly, exactly. It should be a very empowering experience. And unfortunately, it's not for a lot of women, and, you know, especially that the actual birth as well, you know, it should be as empowering as possible. And it shouldn't feel like a medical procedure. Obviously, sometimes, you know, it is and it has to be, and but even within that, you know, comes back to the kind of autonomy point that you just want to feel in control at that moment. And, and a lot of the time, yeah, that that kind of that strength and that power is taken away. So So Yoga is a nice way to kind of try and give that back. Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Spence: 42:44

Yeah, perfectly. With your kids yoga, do you do teach your boys yoga? And how do they, How do they take it?

Kim Katre: 42:52

Yeah, they're amazing. I mean, the thing I love about kids yoga, is that you can plan anything, but you have no idea what's going to happen, you just don't know. And you need to have, you know, backup backup backup backup plans, and just in terms of the way that the the kids that direction that it's going and, but but they come up with the most amazing things, you know, things that you hadn't even imagined, and the different names for shapes or, and, you know, actually, this looks like a giraffe. But you know, exactly, and it's very enlightening. And then it kind of brings you back to the playfulness that yoga should be experienced in and, you know, again, when you get onto your mat, if you're looking at the person next to you, a chart doesn't do that, you know, that they get onto their mat, and they move however they want to what, what however they feel like it, and they're not worried about the judgments from others. And that's extremely, you know, amazing to be around and say, Yeah, I do teach the boys and I tried a couple of weeks ago for the first time and, you know, it's not easy, therefore, to four year olds, they don't follow instructions all the time. And as I say, things take in a different direction sometimes, but a lot of the time that's about me, you know, learning to go with the flow, so they'd probably Teach me more. And so yeah, it's it's a very interesting and new area. I love coming up with the themes of the classes, but you know, underwater theme or going on a trip to the zoo, or stuff like this. There's lots of things to play around with and, and you know, the mental health of kids. I think a lot of the time people think, oh, kids don't get stressed and how can they experience stress in the same way to adults to say you know, they need this time and school is hard and this this virus stuff, you know, the kids are just hearing that word being thrown around and wash your hands and what mosque and you know, be careful of the virus. And that takes its toll. And so I think that the, you know, the meditation time and the breathing for children is is just as important. You know, they they really do need that time as much as adults do.

Ryan Spence: 45:17

Oh, yeah, definitely. I just started my kids yoga training as well. And for similar reasons. I have two boys as well, three and three are nearly three and five. And, yeah, this whole period, you you, you hear so much about the mental health of children. And I think the yoga is a great tool for helping them build confidence, their resilience. And like I said, just moving freely in their body, because you look at children move. And I mean, they, they don't care, they just do what they fear any given time. And at some point, we seem to lose that. And one of the things I'm trying to encourage people is to kind of look back, look at your inner child, I mean, so leave the inhibitions behind leave the limitations behind and think about when you were a child, like, what did you want to do? How did you want to be? And try and explore that rather than confining yourself to Oh, well, I'm a corporate lawyer now. So I have to be this way. So well, you can be more than one thing, right?

Kim Katre: 46:12

Absolutely. Yeah, just let go of those roles. And the way that you perceive your, your kind of role in life and just be a bit free, have a bit of fun. Absolutely. And, you know, happy baby posts, for example, because you know, you do just feel like a child, as soon as you're there, and you're gonna rock, people just naturally kind of rock from side to side. And it's such a fun movement. And it's something that you would never do. Adult well, could you imagine in the corporate office, if somebody got down and, you know, if you don't know what happy baby poses go and google it now, because you can imagine, you know, the partner, just, you know, is just a ridiculous image. But it's so freeing when when you have the time to the space to do that. And it's and it's okay, and you can connect with that inner child is great. Yeah, picture.

Ryan Spence: 47:02

Now, I imagine it now. Yeah. I mean, I was fortunate that for a period of time, I had my I had my own office, I could show, so I wouldn't quite get to have the baby. But I would get into child's pose sometimes just to kind of like work it out. But yeah, you can sort of see though, you're sort of there. And because I've walked into someone's office once before, they weren't doing yoga, but they were kind of just laid on the back on the floor. Like the worst. They're asleep. They're just really tired. And that was a bit odd saying, Yeah, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it could it could have been faster. I didn't want to ask. So one, one thing, which is, I guess it's not really a recent thing. There's always a back and forth. And and as I've spoken with a couple of people about it this week, I'd be interested to get your take is yoga teachers and social media and how is yoga teachers? We use social media, how active we are in what we do on there. what's what's your view? You're not someone who is literally posting photos every day of fantastic poses on the beach, or anything. So is that a deliberate thing? Or do you have a,

Kim Katre: 48:05

I don't know, I guess I'm in the same space as everyone right now with with social media. And it's great, it's an it's an amazingly powerful tool. And, and then that can't be denied in terms of being able to reach out and communicate with people. And but I very much put more emphasis on my real person interactions. And so it's not something that I prioritise. I think I've read a lot about, you know, people becoming a little bit wrapped up in the, you know, the post likes or the the analytics of it all, and I just don't really want to go down that route. And but at the same time, it's probably to my detriment, and you know, I could certainly market more, I think not many people know about what I do. And then the different types of yoga that I do, I'd very much rely on word of mouth, and at this present time, and but I also feel a little bit like, you know, I want to learn a bit more and kind of develop myself a bit more before I start really, you know, I guess if you don't have a clear direction, or have something that's really important for you to say, then don't say it. Yeah. I and that, that can be quite, I think there's this expectation to, you know, post every day or, you know, say Say something, and sometimes it's a bit like, but did you did it have real meaning behind it? And if it does, you know, absolutely share it, spread it and connect with people and that's great, but if you feel a kind of obligation to do it, and it's not coming from the right place, and so yeah, that that's my kind of feel on social media, but I'm probably a bit outdated. I probably need to sort my skills out in that area. So

Ryan Spence: 50:05

Well look I've been, I've been muddling myself through Instagram since since April. And looking back, there's definitely some real houses of mistakes I've made there, which are elementary mistakes. But I think you're right. It's so it's a balance. And it's, it's difficult because on the one hand, you're your yoga teacher, and you're, you're sort of one you want to help. That's what you want to do. You're out there trying to help and to hold space for people to kind of get through them through whatever they want to get through. But in order to help people need to know who you are, and that you exist in what you do, yeah. And so how do you do that? Yeah. And definitely in the, in the beginning, for me, as I say, I started I think I start my Instagram account A while ago, but I only really started using it. You agrico in April. Yeah. And I was kind of reading obviously, about marketing and branding. And, yeah, you got to do this. But what about the algorithm and you have to sort of post every day and you have to do this, you have to do that? And then had to take a step back and say, but that's Yeah, like you say, that's kind of not what I want to do. I have things to say, and I want to say them, I want to say them when I feel that I want to say them. Yeah. Because I feel I have to keep up with this constant churn? If

Kim Katre: 51:12

Right. I mean, if your aim is to become an Instagram influencer, then absolutely, you know, and again, it's very much like, well, if that's your aim, if that's your purpose, then do the hard graft, and you know, and you'll get the results. But you know, if that's not the direction that is important to you, then don't feel that that pressure, and I think things tend to happen very organically, actually. You know, like I say, just through teaching and word of mouth and meeting people, and you kind of you build this community. And, you know, together yoga, I mean, it started out as me and five other teachers, so I had this vision of kind of, you know, being able to offer classes with with different teachers. And, but it, it didn't kind of take that direction. In the end, you know, that the other people had other jobs. And there weren't that many classes available with the National Arthritis Foundation, I started teaching with Yoga Lab, which is very did my teacher training. So, you know, I was able to work and kind of practice my teaching through through that, which was amazing. And so, you know, Together Yoga, is Kim Katre, essentially, and, but it's, um, yeah, yeah.

Ryan Spence: 52:34

Okay, that's, that's fine. Because everyone, everyone has to do themselves. And that's the thing, you have to be authentic. And is you say, if, if you feel like you're like, Instagram is, is your thing, and you feel that that's where you can be your most authentic self, then that's fine. But it's being met and not sort of looking and doing what everybody else is doing. Because she feels that that's what you should be doing. Because at the end of the day, you've got to go out there and teach students and you've got to teach from from within yourself, not from, not from people who you've sort of seen on Instagram, and you feel that that's what you should be doing.

Kim Katre: 53:12

Exactly. And and so, so coming back, I lost my train of thought it was fine, it happens, it happens. But you know, Together Yoga is Kim Katre, that's one person, I can only teach a certain number of classes. So I'm not really in a position to be, you know, marketing in the same way as the big studios here. Yeah. And so you know, you have to keep that in mind, I think you have to look after yourself as a yoga teacher as well. And, you know, I think, three maximum four classes a day is a lot, especially depending on the type of yoga that you're teaching. And it takes time to prepare these classes. And, you know, especially if you're working with the same people, and you know, there's they've got injuries or, and, you know, it's a specialised type of yoga. So, you know, it's not just those four hours of teaching, it's the prep work, and, and kind of getting there early and setting up and, you know, having time afterwards to talk to people. So, yeah, I think, you know, if you're looking at using Instagram as a way to market, you have to make sure that you've got enough resources to kind of, you know, benefit people. Yeah. And I have recently applied for a card so that I can get Google reviews. Now, I didn't even know how to do this. But you have to register your company with Google, and then they send you a card in the post. Yeah.

Ryan Spence: 54:31

Oh, yes. Google My Business. I think I noticed the so I mentioned that to me. Okay.

Kim Katre: 54:35

So I I didn't even know so and my husband said to me, You should really get people to write a review for you on Google. I was like, good idead I'll just sort that now And then, of course, it's like, oh, it'll take eight to 10 days to get the link before I can even set it up. But you know,

Ryan Spence: 54:49

I think it's good. I mean, particularly for you and I guess the slight the slight difference is that because you are in Singapore, Singapore's relatively small teacher, you teach regularly at Studio. You've got your You've got your students who are your clients. So you've kind of got what you kind of what you need a certain extent. As opposed to somebody who maybe doesn't have a regular studio gig or is living somewhere where there aren't that many sort of students around, or they're still in a place where there's a lockdown, and they can't get out and about. So yeah, again, it comes back to what works for you and the situation that you're in at that given time.

Kim Katre: 55:24

Absolutely. And just not feeling you know, the pressures of social media use it to your advantage that that's what it's there for. Don't use it to your detriment.

Ryan Spence: 55:32

Yeah, no, indeed, you got to look after you, yourself. And yeah, your own sort of physical and mental health, which, which brings us on to to another thing I wanted to talk about. So obviously, as we talked about, your former big law lawyer, you're married to a lawyer. And so like me, you're keenly aware of the issues that lawyers face, some of which we touched on them early on in a conversation. What do you think law firms and companies can do to better support, support their employees, particularly, in the current situation, where we talked about they're always been on culture, even though working from home and having to commute? There was still this expectation that you I mean, you're, you're effectively on call for a lot of people.

Kim Katre: 56:15

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, corporate wellness programmes are great. And, you know, and they're everywhere. And, and, you know, you'd have the kind of like, green Mental Health Awareness Week, and, but it sometimes can feel like it's just a tick in the box. And it's the kind of removal of liability. And so I guess, it's just trying to really, you know, be be honest, and as a, as an, you know, company, and are you really bringing those values down into everyday working life. It's not just about one week, you know, it's every day. And, and so it's finding ways to really give people that support on a daily basis. Now, I'm not saying that companies are going to be able to hold everyone's hands and there are going to be late nights, you know, and it goes back to the older generations would say, wow, you know, it's just hard work, get on with it. And but there was no recognition of mental health, you know, 50 years ago. So, I think that, um, you know, I, I'm happy that it's something that's out there, and it's recognised as extremely important. And I think now, it's about trying to translate this kind of wider, wishy washy stuff into actually more applied techniques that that help people. And, you know, so just, for instance, having a catch up meeting with someone to just see how they're getting on, and to not actually talk about work, but just to see, you know, what's going on in your life, because people might have, you know, lost loved ones, or, especially right now, you know, there's so much going on so much stress that people are taking on. And a lot of the time, in the work place, you don't feel like it's appropriate to talk about that. And so a lot of it's just not even known. And if you don't know, as a, as a boss, how can you make that person's life better? Because, you know, it's the unknown. And so it's definitely a two way street. I think that it is about, you know, companies giving you opportunities for people to talk about how they're doing, especially if they're not doing okay. And but people also have to get better at talking, and being honest, and just kind of opening up and not seeing that as a weakness.

Ryan Spence: 58:53

Yeah. I think that there is definitely that thing of from from people who are more senior that, well, this is how it was for me. And so what are you complaining about? Not necessarily recognising that times have changed. And there was also the thing where it's been talked about, there's now a conversation, which is great, but like with so many things, the conversation is kind of the starting point, the conversation and the sticker and the programme. I mean, it is all well and good. But is there really that support for it, you know, is somebody who kind of leaves at six o'clock to go to a yoga class that's paid for by the firm going to be looked at as someone who's not committed to their job, because that happens. I mean, there's conversations I had, and you may not be set to to the individual. But there are definitely people who are kind of keeping an eye out and sort of talking behind your back. Yeah, I've seen it. So any support

Kim Katre: 59:50

and it works both ways. Because I think sometimes you have people in managerial positions that would absolutely celebrate that. Yeah, but people are worried about how it will be perceived. So I guess it's just about getting a little bit of an open discussion going in terms of you know, this is okay. But obviously, don't take the Mick you know, and that's the other problem that when when you when companies start to say, you know, of course, we want to support you, and if you want to go, you know, to an exercise class and take some time for yourself, what if someone goes off down the pub, you know, for three, four hours and comes back and isn't able to do the job? It's very hard, then, you know, to find that line. So I think that the more that and the actual discussions on a day to day basis, what does it mean to look after your mental health for you? And it's a very personalised approach, and you know, what works for one person might not work for another, like, some people were better in the mornings, some people were better at night. And so, yeah, I think it's, it's about kind of, I think that people in, in, you know, in the law, firm context, in partner roles, should probably be aware of, on an individual basis, how their team are doing, at work, and outside of work. And I imagine that a lot of the time, you know, there's a correlation, you know, if someone's having a hard time at home, productivity is going to drop at work, and you know, efficiency is going to come down, and then suddenly, you know, you're being, you've got it from both sides, you get a lower grade, you get a lower bonus, you suddenly feel worthless at work, you've got all this stress going on at home. And that's really where the, you know, the downward spiral starts to happen, and can really have, you know, quite damaging effects on people. So, so just being able to pick up on, Hey, I know what's going on, I see you, and I want to help you. That's extremely powerful.

Ryan Spence: 1:01:57

Yeah, it's recognising the individual as a person and not as a resource that they someone who has it has a life who has issue will have their own issues going on and things they need to deal with any given time. And it's being empathetic and supportive of that. Because that's, that's sometimes what people need. I mean, yeah, salary is obviously good. And the odd perk here and there, is also good, but to feel valued. Sometimes. That's what people need to start sort of like that checking in that, okay, somebody is actually recognising me as an individual. I'm not just some, it's an interchangeable sort of pawn in this way, oh. And then that, that that will then give us individual the sort of confidence to feel that you can speak up when you have things going on, or when things aren't quite right for you, or you need some additional support. Whereas at the moment, there's still a lot of fear that well, on the one hand, the the messages, you mean, were great, we've got this one, or she can do this, you can do that. But if I actually do that, really what's going to happen didn't mean how is that going to affect me? How are people going to perceive me? So it's getting to the position where there's that there's that support from but there's also that mutual respect and trust.

Kim Katre: 1:03:14

Yeah, yeah. training on you know, how to actually use these. And opportunities, you know, whether it's the wellness through exercise, or I don't know, some people can take like career breaks, and then take time off. And again, some people do that. And then they come back and feel like, you know, they've lost in the ranks. Yeah. So then they don't do it. So yeah, I think just having a more open discussion, because there certainly are the tools out there to look after people. It's just making sure that you know, that they're being used in a way that's actually benefiting everyone.

Ryan Spence: 1:03:53

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm sure the the corporate wellness debate will be rumbling on for a while. was really interesting is that I I shared a meme that I saw on Instagram earlier this week. In relation to this, which I just thought was quite funny. I didn't say anything just said, I'll leave this out there. And I was amazed by the number of people that replied back to me in that story, just either saying, Yeah, I recognise that or with a laughing emoji or whatever. So obviously, there's a there is a big thing out there that employees don't necessarily feel always feel that that the wellness, the wellness support that's being offered is necessarily a real offer. Should I say?

Kim Katre: 1:04:33

Yeah, yeah. It kind of becomes a bit of an elephant in the room. Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Spence: 1:04:40

So the people who are listening in I've seen some of them will be listening in to be in position that the urine that I was in, some of them may think that I mean, I do like being a lawyer, but there's this aspect that I don't or may actually be thinking well, I don't but but what else coming My day, what three sort of tips or pieces of advice, would you give someone who sort of been in that position,

Kim Katre: 1:05:08

I think just taking some time to stop. And like really stop. And, and sit back a bit, and just see if you if you're really happy. And, and then depending on that, you know that that the next piece of advice would be, well, if you are, then then stay there and that you're going to need to make some changes in terms of you know, what stressing you out. And, but, but if you're really not happy where you are, and at work, then, you know, obviously, you have to do your research, and you have to see what alternatives there are. Because, you know, at the end of the day, it sounds great. Give up the law and, you know, become a yoga teacher, but it's hard work. And, you know, and it's not big money. And, and you know, there are some some very big realities with that kind of choice. And so sometimes when you get to that junction, you say, Well, actually, I prefer the stability. And, and, and having the direction of the career in law, even though I know that it comes at a sacrifice of maybe being able to do something that I'm passionate with. And, and, and yeah, and I guess just, you know, talk to other people just just talk, don't, don't think that you're alone, and talk to others, get their feedback, see what they think, you know, a lot of the time, it can surprise you, you know how much others can can help you when you feel like you're you're at this junction, and in life, and it shouldn't be something that's as bottled up and seen as a problem. And you know, it's just something to kind of sit back, take a look at, assess and see if you can see if you want to make a change. And if you do then make it

Ryan Spence: 1:07:05

sound advice. Yeah, take a step. Have a think and assess the situation don't just then just kind of rumble along from day to day without any direction. Because then that's that is a sure recipe to, to unhappiness and to and to burnout as well.

Kim Katre: 1:07:19

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Ryan Spence: 1:07:22

So, your yoga, obviously, we talked about you, you kicked off with the National Arthritis Foundation, you know, you're posting a prenatal you're doing kids yoga. Would you say that you found your purpose? And how would you define that? If you have?

Kim Katre: 1:07:42

Yeah, I think I have, I mean, for me, it was about just sharing this love of yoga, and that I found and sharing that with others. And so on a daily basis, I get to do that. And, and I get to do that, and also just really enjoy it whilst I'm doing it. So, you know, certainly, in that sense, I feel that I found my purpose, but I think we have a lot of purposes, you know, I just I don't think there's one single purpose. And you know, we're all balancing or spinning a lot of plates, whatever the saying is, and, you know, we've all got a lot going on. And I think that you constantly have to reevaluate, you know, what is your purpose, My children are young now. So I want to have time to be there for nursery pickup, and, you know, to spend time with them in these years. But as they get older, and you know, they get their friends and they're going to be busy after school, maybe I want something that takes up a little bit more of my time. And I might want to go back to something, you know, like law or maybe something different. And I guess, to say that, you know, you found your purpose. And, and that's it. And it's just quite a stress in itself. Like, you know, yeah, I'm really happy teaching. I'm really happy sharing yoga with others. And for me, that is, you know, that's good enough right now, and and with each day, and yeah, kind of new challenges and new questions. But

Ryan Spence: 1:09:22

yeah, yeah, I think that I think you're right, we are always changing and we are always evolving. And if we're not growing, then we're, we're sort of, we're regressing. So. You, you, it's fine. I think you want to have an idea. I want to have an idea. And even if it's for now, like, Okay, this is what I'm working towards for now. But also be flexible enough to adjust and adapt. If, if that isn't working for you, it isn't serving you for whatever situation could because circumstances change. I mean, just look at this year, for example, you have all the plans in the world and, you know, for a lot of people that's it's been one of their worst years. Yeah, for the people, it's been their best years. And for both sets of people, they may be doing things they didn't think that they would be doing. But, you know, you just adapt to that situation. So I think keeping, keeping purpose in mind is helpful. I think that what I struggled with, towards my latter days in law was, I was taught to ask myself, kind of what am I doing? Why am I doing it? Kind of what is the purpose for what I'm doing? And I couldn't find one. When I did find one, in terms of what I'm doing now, I just found that I was a lot more energised, there's a lot more energy, and I had a clear vision of where I wanted to go. Will that still be my purpose in five years? I don't know. I mean, I don't know where it will take me. But by having a goal now at least, I'm going along the right road? And if there's a turn that says that that kind of makes sense to me, take that turn. But

Kim Katre: 1:10:50

yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you know, you want to have direction, you also want to have the flexibility to as in yoga, we say, you know, go with the flow. Yeah. And because that's something very freeing as well, in life, I think, you know, sometimes we can become so, and pigeon holed and obsessed, you know, with one particular thing, and we kind of miss something, you know, we just miss a moment, or we miss an opportunity, because we're just so focused. So, you know, again, coming back to balance, but it is about finding that balance between having direction. And but also, you know, being you're recognising that some things are in your control and some things on for instance, yes. And there's no point in beating yourself up over the things that you can't control. And the things that you can control, take responsibility for them and and try and find direction. And sometimes it's the things we can't control that change that direction. And that's okay.

Ryan Spence: 1:11:48

Yeah, I think responsibility said there is a key one, like you'd say to students in class, I mean, listen to your body take responsibility for yourself. Because at the end of day, as a teacher, you're there to guide them, but only they know what's going on within themselves. And they have to sort of know, or you Yeah, take responsibility for how they deal with that. And so it's the same for sort of in life, generally, you rather than putting the onus on everybody else, and things aren't working, because somebody did this or that. It is taking that responsibility, accepting that the bad things or negative things will happen. But then it's a case of how do you how do you deal with that? Yeah. How do you reframe that? How do you? How do you move on from that?

Kim Katre: 1:12:31

Yeah, and you know, as you know, yoga teaches us a lot about how to deal with this stuff, you know, yamas, and the arm is how you deal with things internally, how you deal with the outside world, and, you know, even just something as simple as just listening, you know, how do you listen to someone? Do you listen, but you're preparing what you're going to say before they've replied, and it's something that everyone does. And but you know, just really stopping and listening and can can just have such a huge impact and, and can make you see so much more. And so yeah, we can all strive to be, you know, perfect. Everybody, nobody is perfect. And that, yeah, I think that that yoga really gives a lot of tools for people to, to kind of find direction, and also find a flexibility if they need to kind of be open to things being different to how they imagined.

Ryan Spence: 1:13:31

Exactly. It's not about how flexible you are in the body. It's about, it's about all the other things, it's about using that as your foundation to kind of help you just figure out life basically. Exactly. So coming to the end, but I have a few I have one more question, then we have a few, a few quick fires. Is there a quote or any words of wisdom that you that you sort of live live by, or that you refer to regularly? You can be a famous quote, can be your own words, just just any sort of?

Kim Katre: 1:14:04

Yeah, I, I mean, I really have a big thing about time, I just think that time is so valuable. And, you know, and I think I've always had that from from a young age. And so I think that just just being aware of of time and how you're spending your time and, you know, if you're if you're kind of happy within that, and then the other one is just to be happy. So you know, be happy in the time that you have Yeah. It just kind of

Ryan Spence: 1:14:42

Yeah, you want to get that on Instagram.

Kim Katre: 1:14:43

Absolutely. There you go. That's my next post. I'm going to do it tomorrow.

Ryan Spence: 1:14:47

Be happy with the time that you have, prefect, very perfect, okay, let's get through a few few quickfire a little a little less deep, um, a little bit of fun to to sort of end off so, favourite yoga pose and why

Kim Katre: 1:15:00

Ooh, okay. I'm gonna have to have a think about that, oh my god, I love a lot of yoga poses, and I think I'm gonna have to go with Child's Pose. And it's just, it's a great way to start a class, it's a great way to end a class, it's a great way to counterpose a tricky pose, it's a great way to just catch your breath. And in it's quite a humbling pose, you know, to be in. And I always find when a class stands up, and, you know, there's different egos going on. And there's some people that it you know, more progressed in their practice, and you put everyone in child's pose, and it just brings it all back down to the same level. Yeah,

Ryan Spence: 1:15:46

yeah. Big fan, big fan of the child's pose. And I'm really pleased that you didn't say, wrestler, because that's what's been said so far. So it's good to have something else. Perfect. Zoom class, or live class,

Kim Katre: 1:15:59

live, live. I just love you know, and I'm very grateful that that the zoom community is still going on. I mean, I teach live classes now at Yoga Lab, and I have a headset, and we're streaming it live for the people as well. And and that's great, you know, to see the people there at home, you say, Hey, you know, and you kind of have a quick chat with them. And then you turn and you look at your real people. Like, I'm so happy to have real people here. You know, that the energy, you just can't replace that ready? Yeah. Okay.

Ryan Spence: 1:16:31

For books, fiction, or nonfiction, fiction, yeah. Any particular one you'd like to recommend? Or Yeah,

Kim Katre: 1:16:40

I'm kind of going through like a, a very old kind of classics style of reading. Right now influenced by my mom, as I said he, of course teacher so yeah, I'm reading David Copperfield right now. Oh, wow. And which is really good. I always looked at Charles Dickens and thought, like, Oh, my God, you know, like, I think I tried to read GCSEs and I was like, No, and but it's mum kind of said to me that it will resonate a lot with the fact that you know, having the boys and it's so much about childhood and, and about his innocence. And, you know, I think I'm about halfway through now. But it's, it's a really, really lovely book. And before that, I read The Count of Monte Cristo that I'm very proud of, because it's the biggest book I've ever read. And I did it. I got through it. And it was amazing. It was incredible. You know, that's fast.

Ryan Spence: 1:17:31

Yeah. I've seen that. I've seen the film and read the book once, I've seen the film

Kim Katre: 1:17:34

numerous times. There was a film. Yeah, I

Ryan Spence: 1:17:37

think if I'm not mistaken, it may have been Guy Pearce, who's in the film, but I can't remember, I try to find the link. And then I'll put it in the show notes for anyone who hasn't seen it as well. But it's a great film. And the book is the book is good, very long.

Kim Katre: 1:17:49

Oh, it's very long. And then it was a real you know, I speaking to my granddad a lot. He said, How far are you now? It's like, well, I've read another 200. But I've still got another six. It's it's a real mountain, but

Ryan Spence: 1:18:00

Indeed, indeed, but some great lessons in that book. Yeah. Okay, so in your class music or no music, music, music. Interesting. There's lots of debate back and forth about whether having music in classes is the right thing or the wrong thing. At the moment, I think you just do what you want to do.

Kim Katre: 1:18:15

Yeah, I mean, obviously, teaching a class yesterday, as I say, it was split between people in the studio and people on zoom, and there was an issue with my headset, and the mic was not picking up my voice. So I had to go to the laptop sound. And so I was trying to play the music. And of course, the guys on zoom just said, we just can't hear. So I switched the music off. And you know, there was a brief moment where I was like, ah, I really planned that playlist, and you know, and then it works. The the movement really goes with the flow of the music. But then when I that was my issue, you know, it wasn't a student's issue. And when I kind of let that go, we had an amazing class and it was very, you know, it's beautiful to hear the breath. And in everyone and and to have that, you know, that silence and in some parts of the class, so, you know, I, I love classes that don't have music, but for me, I would always choose music just because I like the way it feels to move with that kind of rhythm.

Ryan Spence: 1:19:18

Yeah, so a lot of times as teachers, we get into our own head as to what we're doing, and actually for the students there, they're fine. I when I first started teaching, I used music, and then one class for some reason, I just found it really distracting. So for the next class I didn't, and I asked students the end Oh, I didn't need me. And then I didn't even

Kim Katre: 1:19:38

have to say actually from I remember when I first started teaching, and I was talking to my teacher, and I said a habit, the music, the music, and they said, don't do music. When you're first starting out. You got to focus on the teaching and then when you become confident with the teaching, and it just becomes second nature, then In the music, but that that's not the point people haven't come to the class to listen to music, you know, they've come to do yoga. So, yeah.

Ryan Spence: 1:20:08

Key one for, for teachers that I like to ask self-practice or lead practice.

Kim Katre: 1:20:15

Ooh, I think I enjoy lead practice and again, very much to do with the energy. And I really love presence of others. And I find that quite special. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes self practice is important. And, you know, for instance, I still practice by trying a lot of my poses that I'm working on at that particular point by myself. And but in terms of the kind of, you know, vinyasa style stuff I really like to be with other people. Yeah,

Ryan Spence: 1:20:53

yeah the energy in the room. Yeah, it's good. That's really adds to to the sequence. Yeah. Coming to yoga apparel, yoga pants, Alo or Lululemon or none Lululemon

Kim Katre: 1:21:09

Lululemon so far, it's so soft, and it was so well and you know, I sound like a salesperson, but it is really, really good yoga.

Ryan Spence: 1:21:20

It is. Yeah, I'm very much I mean, I think I mean, wearing Lululemon today is kind of taken me through lockdown. So

Kim Katre: 1:21:28

I am in Marks and Spencers right now currently, so you know, I am doing it for a brand.

Ryan Spence: 1:21:33

Yeah, represent. Exactly. And what would be your dream retreat? destination?

Kim Katre: 1:21:41

Oh, um, I think probably Sri Lanka, okay. Just when I went that not for yoga, but years ago, I went there with my husband, my husband's from India. And, and we went to Sri Lanka for just about four or five days. And we just remember we felt so I didn't know it was very wholesome feeling place and I think it would be a very special place to go and to do a retreat or Yeah, to do some yoga. Yeah.

Ryan Spence: 1:22:12

Yeah, I haven't been yet still. But I'm I really, like really like to go there.

Kim Katre: 1:22:15

It's beautiful. When the people were just so lovely. Yeah, he just kind of get off the plane and feel like you're being hugged straight away.

Ryan Spence: 1:22:21

Yes. Amazing. Well, whenever we can get on the plane again. Cool. Okay, so what do you have coming up in soon? Or in the future? Any events? Or do you want to tell people where you're teaching? or?

Kim Katre: 1:22:36

Yeah, I'd love to get the word out about my prenatal classes. And so I'm officially qualified. And I'm just looking to I guess, build a bit of a community and possibly do some M series work. So you know, for women that are just in the first trimester. And we can practice together and then be together through your second and your third. I would really like to try and get that kind of community going so that that's where I'm be focusing some some energy. And and yeah, you know, my usual classes, I teach Ashtanga and vinyasa, and then gentle flow, and then beginner. So just just the usual schedule and of teaching those types of classes and then trying to build up that this presence in the prenatal community. Because I yeah, I think it's a very special type of yoga. So that's what I'm going to be doing in the near future. Yeah. Great.

Ryan Spence: 1:23:40

So a lot of stuff going on there. I should connect you with one of my my previous guests. She's also in the prenatal space. Yeah. She's also in Singapore. So yeah, I think he could could do some good things together. Great. Cool. And finally, where can people find you?

Kim Katre: 1:23:56

Ah, okay. My Instagram. Okay, so you can find me on Google as Together Yoga. I'm on Facebook Together Yoga SG. Same thing with Instagram Together Yoga SG I'm pretty sure if you just search my name Kim Katre on Instagram. It also comes up with Together Yoga. And and yeah, you can find me in the East at Yoga Lab and most weeks usually around the kind of lunchtime classes and and I'm anywhere around in Singapore. So yeah, wherever you need me to be you know, I like to do kind of private classes as well. So go to people's houses and you know, that in the online world together yoga,

Ryan Spence: 1:24:46

yeah. Perfect. Okay, and winner will stick all that in the show notes as well and people can follow you and see, see when you do have something to say on Instagram.

Kim Katre: 1:24:54

Yeah, exactly. Just Just wait.

Ryan Spence: 1:24:57

Okay, well, thanks Kim is for me to great talking to you. I think that we've gone through some some really interesting issues and the committee help out the listeners who are trying to figure out what they want to do and where they want to go. And

Kim Katre: 1:25:11

yeah, cool. Thank you so much, Ryan. Thank you for having me. And yes, it's just such a lovely experience to come and just talk about yoga. It's like my dream. So um, yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Ryan Spence: 1:25:22

No problem. And um, yeah, as I say, so I guess I'm sure that in a year or so time would be good to kind of come back and see, see where where things have taken you and, and what you're up to then so. So yeah, thanks again. And yeah, see you again soon. Cool. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Yoga Den pPodcast. If you like the show, hit subscribe, and leave a review on Apple podcasts. That really helps to get the shout out to others, and lets me know to keep creating new episodes. If you'd like to get on the show yourself, or there's someone you'd like to hear on the show, drop me a line on Instagram@theyogaden_podcast and@ryanspenceyoga and if you'd like to find out more about me one about what I do, check out the website. RyanSpenceyoga.com but for this week, all that's left to say is eat plants. give thanks, do yoga. Peace