Speaker 1: Welcome to episode 130 of Project Geekology.
And here we are in.
You know, just a nice pristine.
You know year of 2003,.
You know nothing to worry about , actually, psych.
It is 2023 and we got zombies or we got clickers outside.
We have nothing but the world to worry about.
Nothing but the world to worry about.
I am one third of your host.
Actually, there's only two of us today, so I am one half of
your host Anthony and joining me today is Rich.
Speaker 2: We salute our fallen comrade, Not really.
He's just away on special business doing extra special
timeline research that I'm sure he'll regale us with on his way
back next week.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and you know I realized that I forgot to
say what we're covering today, but Rich and I are going to be
covering the Last of Us.
We're going to really just stick with the first game in the
first season, you know, because there's a you know those are.
I would say those are the more beloved versions of the ip.
So we're just going to stick to that, you know.
But before we hop into the last of us rich, tell us what you
have been up to.
Hey, there, this is anthony from the future.
I'm sorry if the audio is a little different.
I'm recording just straight from the laptop.
I don't have my setup.
But if you are interested in just listening to the meat of
the conversation, go over to 10 minutes and 13 seconds, and that
is when the discussion starts.
Speaker 2: I actually just got back from the state capitol, so
that that was fun.
I went down to washington dc, checked out a couple of uh
museums down there, into the library of congress, the
national archives, the air and space museum.
I accidentally wore a star wars shirt when I walked in there
but then felt like it was appropriate and uh, we.
Of course this might be a shock to all you guys, but I went to
a baseball game.
It felt mean because it was the only game of the series the
Mets won against the Nationals, but it was a drubbing uh.
The Mets won like nine to one.
Their starting pitcher went almost the entire game and I
happened to sit on the third base side in a giant group of
Met fans, so you just heard resounding let's go, mets chants
.
I actually felt bad for the fans there.
There were a couple of them who were pretty good natured, but
they were sitting in the middle of the group and it was kind of
crazy.
So that was a pretty good time.
Speaker 1: Now, did you go to Washington DC just to see that
game?
Speaker 2: I do not.
I would rather not confirm or deny.
No, I mean we were picking a spot for vacation and yes, I
mean there's a very specific reason why we went those days
right Because the Mets were playing the Nationals.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, so you lined up your vacation with that
game so that you could go.
Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
Speaker 1: So not only is baseball something that you live
, it's also a place that you vacation to.
Speaker 2: Well, there's 30 stadiums and we're doing the 30
stadium chase.
Speaker 1: The chase for 30.
Okay, so where have you been out of all 30?
Like number wise, how many have you been to?
Speaker 2: uh, so as a family we've been to seven and then
I've personally been to 10 because I have doubles in new
york.
So I have doubles for the yankees and doubles for the Mets
.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you've been to a third.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I haven't really gone out on the
West Coast yet.
That's going to be.
We're going to have to take a look at that one one day.
Speaker 1: All righty, Anything else.
What else did you do in Washington DC?
Speaker 2: We just went around checked out a bunch of statues,
some architecture.
I just went around checked out a bunch of statues, some
architecture, ate a whole bunch walked a lot.
It was pretty nice, but I'm telling you, there were a lot of
Met fans walking around the Capitol and nobody was scared.
I'm not sure if it was because of all the extra security, but
there were lots of Met fans just roaming around the Capitol.
Speaker 1: They were also chasing the 30.
I think it was the Washington DC DC area that I remember
coming down.
So I was up in New York with Dakota and I came down with them
.
When they drove down one time, uh with uh, it was like his
brothers and I and his dad and I think that we were like in
traffic in the DC area and like there was ice on the road or
like packed down snow on the road and we kind of got stuck.
So Dakota and I had to like get out and like push the car, like
rock it a little bit to help dislodge it.
Dude, that was dude in the middle of traffic.
That was so annoying, that sounds insane, it was.
But I mean, we had to.
You know, we had to do something.
Dakota's dad was, you know.
Obviously he has to, like you know, drive the car forward so
we all had to like get out and like rock the car, to like get
it to move.
But your florida boys in the snow, well, well, by then dakota
and then the the rest of them were used to that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was the florida boy in the snow so, uh,
what did you get up to this last week?
Speaker 1: uh, no, honestly, nothing too insane today as of
recording.
I binge watched a whole bunch of the last of us there was.
There's a couple, there's a few episodes that I still needed to
watch.
So I would say like four episodes and like I just
shotgunned, like binge them for the whole day today.
But yeah, no, I know that I'm probably going to remember at
some point that I did something, but I mean, yeah, no, I don't
think, not that I, you know, obviously, like I gamed, oh, I
did mess with you guys or Dakota yesterday when they announced
in the upcoming Overwatch season that there is going to be a
Persona collaboration, so you don't have to mess with Dakota
with that.
I mean, come on, man, he knows what I'm about that Persona life
.
Speaker 2: Just maybe one day.
Speaker 1: One of these days.
We're going to get him on Persona One of these days, One
day.
Speaker 2: It might be in the near future or far in advance.
Speaker 1: I actually do have a future episode that I would like
to do with you guys and I'm pretty sure it's going to be a
gaming episode and I'm pretty sure dakota would be on board
with this but I want to discuss the og battlefront, the star
wars battlefront games oh nice, did you play those?
Speaker 2: yeah, I did.
And then, uh, what was the last one?
The last one had it was I was very thrown off because the
actress who was like the main villain I think that you fought
against my um, I, I think it's edian versio.
Speaker 1: Yes, the you, so you actually play as her yeah, okay,
she like transitions from the empire over to the, to the, the
rebel alliance she was in the show the league.
Speaker 2: The league was a show about a bunch of degenerates
who played fantasy football together and the terrible things
they would do to each other, and they named their trophy
after a girl they had a crush on in high school, so they called
it the shiva bowl and she was shiva.
So I turned the game on and it's like such a such a crazy
thing where I was like whoa, whoa, wait a minute, that's
shiva.
And now it always weirds me out when, like I mean with sam
whitworth, I think I've done the same thing where his face is
actually in the game.
So I I always find it crazy when we actually have, you know,
not like when they make a movie and then they make the game
after the movie, but when, like, a character is actually just
written for a game and the actor just you know, well, I, I think
, I, I think.
Speaker 1: For me I was off put when I saw him in the star wars
game, because I had seen him in media prior to that, like he was
always casted as like a vampire , you know wasn't he?
Speaker 2: I think he had been in Smallville when the game came
out.
I I'm hoping maybe, but he's definitely in Smallville.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm watching through.
I haven't come across him yet, but there might be a possibility
that he's in that.
But yeah, he's definitely.
I've seen him in a handful of things, but yeah, no, that, no,
that's interesting.
But yeah, no, I definitely I've seen him in a handful of things
, but yeah, no, no, that's interesting.
But yeah, no.
I would say, overall, for me it hasn't been too insane.
I've been playing overwatch, I've been playing world of
warcraft.
I'm kind of like in a routine with, like you know, flipping
between both of those games and actually, after we finish up
recording today, I'm going to be heading out and going to be
playing magic the gathering with some friends nice yeah, just
diving deep into that, that nerdiness man being away, sadly
I wasn't able to game much.
Speaker 2: I did bring the switch one but I ended up.
Not, I've been trying to man, I've been trying to finish out
Breath of the Wild, just getting every shrine that I can find.
So I know I can beat Ganon, but I really just I'm not going to
get all the Korok seeds.
It's too much work.
That's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: You're a completionist, you want to go
the full way.
I generally do?
Speaker 2: I mean, the only game I haven't been able to complete
I think is Red Dead.
Not 100%, because to complete I think is red dead, uh, not come
like not a hundred hundred percent, because part of it's
like you have to.
Let's say, have you know, a certain amount of headshots on
this mission and I don't really play for those things.
So I'll never get a hundred percent but I'm pretty close
with like most of the, the pelts and things like that the
legendary animals.
I'm starting to actually pay way more attention to the birds
this time, so that's been new I'm also, so I kind of feel you
on that there.
Speaker 1: There's certain things in games that I really
just don't care for.
I don't care for racing and games that aren't racing games.
I don't care for time trials.
The only game that I would say that I actually really went and
platinum because I love the game so much, was that first
spider-man game that came out, I think back in 2018 is it?
Speaker 2: was it yeah?
Speaker 1: so I actually platinum that game just because
it was like the definitive spider-man experience and I was
like, yeah, I'm a platinum this I platinum all the spider-man
games.
Speaker 2: I platinum the lego games.
I will not stop with those games.
If it's a reasonable platinum, I will probably do it now.
I have also no compunctions about going online and, like you
know, oh, you need this video.
Where's the next bag?
Like the hidden backpacks and stuff in spider-man?
Like I had no problems looking up where they all were, you know
, but it will sit there and platinum the game if it's
reasonable yeah, yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if you're, if you are ready, but
did you want to hop into the meat of the conversation?
Speaker 2: man, the last of us let's go, let's jump into this
like some quarter steps.
Speaker 1: Is it the last of us?
Or you know like how many?
You know how many of their like ?
There's just the amount they keep on coming out with the last
of us games and there's just more and more people so like who
is the last of us?
Speaker 2: it's very unclear.
I mean and, and also us is such a nebulous word.
So I mean it could be, you know , two, or obviously it could be
many.
I think this is what happens when, uh, you know, we can't use
uh chat, gbt and uh our cell phones to figure out where
people are so, so I I want to know a little bit about, like
your relationship with the last of us.
Speaker 1: Did you hop into the game before the show or did you
just watch the show?
Speaker 2: So I remember when the game first came out, my
friend got it and he said, oh, this game is really cool, you
should check it out.
And I didn't buy it.
And he came over and I remember just being way too afraid when
I was playing it and I think that because I wasn't great at
it, because I was so afraid, I started nitpicking certain
gameplay mechanics.
As I'm watching I'm like, oh convenient, there's always a
plank of wood whenever ellie needs to swim across somewhere.
Or oh convenient, there are always ladders everywhere, right
, like I don't know why I was attacking the game so much, but
I was.
I didn't play it the first release.
I want to say I played it way after, when it became a greatest
hit on PlayStation.
I didn't get the remastered version.
It's like I got gypped out.
I feel like I got the version before the remastered version.
Just before it I had gotten it whatever.
Before the remastered version, like just before it, I had
gotten it whatever.
And I think that because I got it for free from, like the
monthly downloads or something, they didn't let me just get the
upgrade.
So before the series started, I made a point to definitely play
it through and I think I played it through twice before I got
to see the show okay, cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm actually with you on that.
I didn't get it when it first came out.
I actually never owned a ps3 in that era.
I was more into the xbox 360.
I really felt like the xbox 360 was.
I was in the time where I was gaming with friends a lot and I
felt like the xbox live experience was like the better
online experience.
I think that when it came to connecting with friends and like
I just felt like their servers were better, so I hadn't gotten
the ps3.
That was like the one playstation that I never got.
I had the one, I had the two, I had the four and the five, but
I never got the three.
So it was when I got the four.
When I got PS4, they had a version that came out for the
PS4, but it wasn't a remastered version.
I think it was kind of upscaled .
Speaker 2: I think we played the same one because I had an Xbox
360 too, so I think this makes sense.
I think I played that version that you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so I always knew I wanted to play it
because I thought it looked cool and it's a Naughty Dog game.
I like the Naughty Dog games they have Uncharted, they have
Jak and Daxter.
I grew up on those and it just looks really good.
And it just looked really good and so when I finally got into
it, I think I played it, maybe 2017, maybe 2016, 2017 around.
That time was when I actually sat down and played it.
My mind was blown, like I was so drawn into the story I I was
like man, this is a story driven video game like this is like
you're playing through a movie or you're playing through a tv
show.
So I was really blown away and I absolutely loved it and so,
yeah, man, like, and then, obviously, when the second one
came out, like I was a day one, like, that was a day one acquire
for me, I went for it because I was like, I love this game, the
story is amazing.
I need to get the second one.
You know we'll, we'll keep the second one for I think we'll
talk about it, because there's still more to be told as far as
the show, because there's another season that has to cover
another aspect for the second game.
So, but we have a completed first season, you know, for the
first game.
So when the show came out, you know, I was really, I was a
little nervous because I was like, you know, I really hope
that they do well with this, because this is a game that
means a lot to me and the story is really good.
And I was pleasantly surprised that they kept with pretty much
like All the major story beats and then they filled in
information that was not in the games.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then even I don't want to do spoiler stuff,
but I will just say that I mean we can, I mean the Last of Us
Season 1.
What I mean is for there were things from the first game that
were missing from the first season In terms of Interacting
with the environment.
That then is addressed from the first season right in terms of
interacting with the environment .
That then is addressed in the second season.
So it made my kind of, because there was one of the few things
that made me angry was just one of the environmental changes
that occurs in the first one in terms of the spores.
So it was just kind of one thing that I thought that was
weird.
They left out of season one, but then I thought they did a
good job of incorporating season two oh okay, yeah, no, no, I
know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: I do like that.
The first season of the show does a really good job at
explaining the cordyceps and I did, I like like right, right,
and was just like, oh wow, this is really cool because you know,
the existence of cordyceps exists and the ones that he was
talking about, the zombie ants that's a real fungus, it's like
you know.
And in his explanation that it's like you know, the world got
warmer and so it had to adapt and then it adapted to where it
could, like you know, take over a human's body.
You know or not that it could.
At that point it was like I think in the 1960s was that clip
?
He was saying that that's where it's headed, that it could end
up in that, you know, at that point, and I mean, that's
exactly what happened, that's exactly what happened.
So I really liked that they had those clips that explained
cordyceps and then you know, kind of like where the start of,
of where it happens, and then adding that whole Jakarta scene
where and then, like the lady is like no, we got to bomb
everybody, or this is going to get out of hand.
Speaker 2: I loved the little.
What is it that?
I think it's that, joel, he wasn't on a diet, he's
gluten-free and that's why they hadn't been getting bread Right
Like that little, because they're kind of explaining that
it's kind of in the bread right and all that kind of stuff and
he's gluten-free, so they get the gluten-free stuff and that's
not affected.
The cordyceps didn't get into the flour or whatever.
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, like there's like no yeast or
yeah and I thought that that was such a little tiny.
Speaker 2: It's just a.
I love that kind of little background stuff that you can
hear that later.
You're like, oh okay, right yeah it's, it's, it's not in
your face, right?
It's just such a casual little thing like I think his daughter
complains about it or something, and you know he's like, oh,
whatever, you know, and he makes up, you know, he, he defends
himself to an extent and I I think that that's just a smart
way of showing us how they may have avoided it when everybody
else was exposed to it right, right.
Speaker 1: And then something that that's different between
the game and the show is the time gap.
So in the game it came out in 2013, so the outbreak happens in
2003, and then it jumps up to 2013, and then, you know, this
is where the main game happens.
But in the show it jumps up 20 years to 2023, which is the year
that it aired.
So I mean, we had a pretty massive, like time skip.
So, like, instead of having like a joel in his 40s, we have
a joel in his 50s, so he's a little older yeah, and I I mean
I think it works.
Speaker 2: I mean pedro pascal does a great job.
I mean he was fantastic casting for joel.
I don't remember if there was any discussion about other
people doing it.
I can't think of any actors off the top of my head that I would
have rather had in this role.
I mean, looking back on it now, obviously there's a little
Pedro fatigue.
I love the man, but I'm sick of him being.
We talked about this on the Fantastic Four episode, but I'm
a huge Last of Us fan.
He's in Last of Us.
I'm a huge Game of Thrones fan.
He's in Game of Thrones.
I'm a huge Marvel fan.
He's in Marvel.
It's like, come on, buddy, I need you to be one person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe take a little bit of a break and let
somebody else, I guess, take the spotlight, yeah, but yeah, I
agree.
What are your thoughts on Bella Ramsey?
She was also in Game of Thrones .
There was a bit of a pushback because of you know that she
doesn't look as much like ellie.
I mean, pedro doesn't look too much like joel, but he's close
enough, I guess.
But bella, her face I mean you know very much, so it doesn't
look like ellie you listen.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you and I both know why there was
so much backlash, right, it's just like people were crushing
on her in the video game and they were like that's not my
crush, you know, and it's you know.
There was also, I mean, I remember, in witcher they
changed, you know, jen's character.
I think looks very different the actress in the in the show
than does in the game and it doesn't really have any impact
on the story at all for me, other than you know that I was
crushing on on her in the video game, you know, and I was like,
hey, that looks like that looks different than my crush, you
know.
But I take to the internet to be like this is absurd.
I wasn't that upset about it and in this case you, I know her
as the badass girl from Bear Island.
You know who, or sorry, she's, I think it's Bear Island, the
Mormont family.
So she's the last of the Mormonts when they're kind of
going to battle against I think it's Cersei's army at first, but
then the White Walkers and they have like 12 men but she like
very fiercely pledges for them.
So when I saw her being cast I was like, well, she plays a
little badass really well, you know, I mean, you know, I mean,
I think she even goes to battle in the show like she's a pretty
big badass.
So I thought that, in terms of, can the actor handle that type
of like being a badass?
Yeah, I thought that that was going to be the really easy part
.
If anything, I was worried about whether she would hit the
emotional beats, because I hadn't seen her do that before
right, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: So I didn't really get upset when I saw the casting
.
For me it's just like as long as she looks close enough to the
character but if you get the that, you have to get that
personality down right, and I think that she does a really
good job at getting ellie's personality.
So does pedro with joel's personality.
Even the actor that portrays tos, tommy, does a really good
job at portraying his character.
So, yeah, like, let's talk a little bit about, like you know,
the beginning of the story.
You know we get where it starts us off, in 2003, in both the
game and the show.
And Joel he's just living his life out with his brother,
they're contractors, and the outbreak happens and then we get
something really tragic that happens to joel.
Speaker 2: That really builds up for what happens throughout the
game, you know, in the show yeah, I think they do a really
good job of kind of setting, sending the in both versions.
They they do a good job of world building and, you know,
kind of quickly getting you to understand what it was like
before you're going to get flash forward into what it is.
I think that, like, the fallout series did a really good job of
that too right, because it's still kind of our world.
But they have to establish the parameters and I thought that
they did a good job of that with the 1970s video and the jakarta
stuff.
And then joel's you know his daughter and everything and kind
of the tragedy that he goes through with her and how he's a
different man.
Speaker 1: You know he's a very he just seems like a regular dad
who's trying to protect his kid .
Speaker 2: You know he doesn't seem like he's a badass, I can't
remember.
Does he display some gun skills at the beginning?
But either way, it's nothing like you know, nothing that we
know of him in the future right, right, yeah, no, it's.
Speaker 1: It is both like heartbreaking in both the game
and the tv show you know to see his daughter being.
You know she gets shot, I guess like the army's just trying to
like fend them to get away, but I mean it's still sad to see
that she gets shot in that that whole process and then she gets
killed.
And so, yeah, like you know, we flash forward and, yeah, joel,
the world is hardened.
You know he's in, he's in a Boston kind of DMZ kind of area.
You know it's everything's kind of locked down.
You have this militaristic group that has taken control of
this area and, yeah, I mean Joel has been hardened by life.
You know, obviously grief did a lot and then just going through
dealing with the zombies and then dealing with raiders and
the fireflies and everything, so there's just a lot that goes on
in this world that really would harden somebody.
So, yeah, no, I really do like feel for joel.
I understand why he's kind of you know, just kind of on edge
and so, yeah, like I really enjoy seeing how his character
evolves throughout the show and and the game yeah, I mean, I
think obviously the game is able to do it a little bit
differently, so that's because you're experiencing it as if
it's you.
You're playing this character.
So in a way the story might be the same for everybody, but the
experience is different for each person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's.
I think, like you know, his daughter dying at the beginning,
you know, is obviously sad, but because of the nature of the
way the story is being told, you feel I mean, as a parent, yeah,
I feel bad for him because I can, I can sympathize, but I
don't truly know his daughter well enough to care particularly
.
And I think that when you're playing as the character, you're
like oh no, that's me.
You know there's a little bit more.
You know, not, I'm not, I don't have a dissociative personality
, I'm not like, oh yeah, that's uh, you know, that's my daughter
.
I can't believe she died, you know, but but you do feel more
of a connection, I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do like that.
They expanded her a little bit more, I guess, to develop a
little bit more of a connection, because you didn't get too much
of her in the game, you know.
But they try to add her a little bit more and I think that
I think that there are certain aspects that they wanted to
improve upon from the game and then that's why we got those
clips of, you know, about the scientists talking about the
cordyceps and then the whole jakarta thing, and so I I really
do appreciate those additions to the show that really, like
adds to the lore, we have Ellie, who you know she's an orphan,
she has no family.
You know she's got these people the Fireflies that they want to
transport her to another group of scientists within the Firefly
organization.
You know there's different groups, there's different sects
of fireflies, and so the one in boston, you know joel, kind of
gets wrapped up into being somebody that you know he gets
to the point to where he has to deliver her, and so yeah, like
you know, ellie is just, you know she's hardened, she's,
she's gone through a really hard time in of her life too, and so
when you kind of get to know ellie and joel a little bit you
get to realize that they're kind of like they're two sides of
the same coin.
They're very similar.
You know joel sees her as this little girl but she's been
hardened.
You know he tries to put some comparisons.
You know that you know with his daughter but she's very
different from his daughter.
She has been kind of battle-hearted a little bit in
life.
I mean, she's grown up in like a really crappy world yeah, I
know it's completely different.
Speaker 2: You know I mean we joke about it here.
We live not far from a little harbor and uh, we, whenever I
think about I'm like you know, zombie apocalypse.
You know I talk to my family about it.
You know my wife's like look, you're gonna have to make the
hard choice and you can't take me with you if you want our son
to live, because I'm gonna be useless.
And uh, you know, like he's not gonna be the little boy who, uh
, just likes to go to met games.
He's gonna be the little boy who just likes to go to Met
Games.
He's going to be the little boy who watched his dad have to
take his mom out before they left the house and tried to live
amongst the zombies.
So I just think that she's going to be a completely
different person than his actual daughter because she's grown up
in a completely different time period.
What's really danger and what you can do, period, uh, you know
what's really danger and you know what you can do and how you
can experiment with growing up, all righty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you hear some, if you hear some thunder
in the background.
Yeah, we got some uh thunder going on, man it's.
It's kind of crazy.
Right now florida is being florida.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, florida is just being, florida was being
florida.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, florida's just being florida man.
So what I was talking about was that the show added this whole
section.
They added like that whole section where they meet this
group in one of the cities that they go through and joel ends up
killing the son of the I always forget her name the lady that's
in charge of this group oh yes, I can't remember her name
either for some reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's a little.
I think it's a little easier to understand in the game because
you're reading, like you're reading some of the missives and
you're you know, I think you're getting a little bit more about
the groups and why joel might be distrustful of them right,
right, yeah, because the group that that is in charge of boston
is they're called fedra and you know they're a little bit more
of like the remnants of like the old worlds, but not everybody
likes that.
Speaker 1: You know, you have groups like this one that Joel
and Ellie come across, and then there's also Raiders and you
also have like cultists.
You know there's just so much going on and so, yeah, like this
is a new group that was added to the show.
One of the cool things is that the lady's name was Kathleen and
this happens in Kansas City.
That the lady's name was Kathleen and this happens in
Kansas City, and so her right-hand man, perry, is played
by Jeffrey Pierce and he actually does the voice of Tommy
in the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did that a couple other times, I think,
later in the series.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was really happy that they snuck in a good.
Well, they didn't sneak them in , they did sneak in one.
But like you have um later in the series, you have ashley
johnson that cameos as ellie's mother and she's the voice of
ellie.
You also have Troy Baker who plays James, and he's in like
that cultist group, troy Baker is the voice of Joel.
You also get Laura Bailey, which Laura Bailey doesn't come in
until the second game, but she cameos as one of the Firefly
nurses later in the show.
But it's really cool that they incorporated all of these
characters that were in the game , that they incorporated their
voice talent into the show.
You also had Merle Dandridge, so the leader of the Fireflies
in Boston is Marlene.
And so she plays a role.
She's the one that does the handoff of Ellie to Joel, and so
she she's actually the voice in the game and she actually plays
her character in the show.
So I was.
I thought that that was really, really cool yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we've also seen, like you know,
in Star Wars, I think, boca tan, uh, the voice actress was able
to be in the show.
So I mean, sometimes it doesn't , you know, sometimes maybe just
for I mean, obviously ashley johnson's older than they want
lx to be portrayed in the show and everything, so I'm gonna go
that way.
But to find a spot for them, I think is it's a really nice way
of them acknowledging the importance those people had,
because if the voice actors hadn't been as good as they were
, maybe the game doesn't take off the way it does right, right
, no, no, I agree.
Speaker 1: And so, dude, let me tell you one of the episodes
that like and these characters are in the show, I think it's
sam and henry that they come across.
That episode always wrecks me, dude, that episode is really
hard to watch.
Yeah, and I, I can imagine you as a father like that must be a
tough watch, and I'm not a father myself but, like you know
, I have, like, young family members and you know just the
interaction, the relationship that is built throughout.
You know they have it in the game and in the show.
They make him younger yeah he's a little bit older in the game,
but they make him younger in the show and so, ellie, you know
how it's almost like a young brother kind of dynamic with
ellie and sam, and you know sam the, and let me tell you, the
actor that portrayed sam was so good yeah he was so good and
like he was adorable and he was really like.
You know, they made him deaf and so and he, the actual actor
himself, was deaf, and so I thought that was like a really
interesting dynamic that they added.
Yeah, man, that episode is really really tough because,
yeah, you see that that friendship that grows, that
blossoms, that relationship, they, you know, they go through
some.
Especially, they added that whole scene with the stand down
between Kathleen and her group and then, all of a sudden, a
bunch of clickers come out of nowhere with a bloater.
That scene is so insane that they had added that scene
because I thought it was like a really great addition.
Speaker 2: The one scene that I think it was a weird addition is
I'm pretty sure it's this season, it's the I mean Tess
gets kissed by the Cordyceps, like the Cordyceps comes out of
her mouth.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Earlier in the season .
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: That was like, and she just like sits there
horrified and doesn't move.
I was like, all right, I mean you know definitely something
made for the show, that you know obviously this is all
make-believe, but there's still stuff that you're like what, why
doesn't she move?
That's so weird.
She just kind of like accepts him as her prom date.
But some, some of the scenes are really true to the game yeah
and you know, I think season two , I think, has a couple of
things that are really I was really happy that they.
They got it kind of I'll say right, and it looks like they're
right they're building.
Obviously I think they're getting more money a little bit.
So the second season seemed to have like a kind of more
grandiose set pieces and yeah, yeah, no, of course, of course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, if you have a successful first season,
you're definitely gonna get a bigger budget on the second one.
So but yeah, no, no, yeah.
So with sam, you know sam gets infected during like that whole
like kerfuffle with the walkers, and then you see that sam gets
bit and a dude let me tell you that.
And then that that interaction, dude, like I like my heart
freaking broke when he wrote down if you turn into a monster,
are you still you in the inside ?
Dude, I was just like you know, like, because there had been
some distance between the last time I played the game and when
I watched the show.
So I remember the characters, but I didn't exactly remember
how things went down.
And so when that whole thing went down, like dude, it it
broke my heart.
Sam turns into a walker, and then henry being the one to
shoot him and it all happened so fast, you know like it's all
reactionary.
And then the crushing guilt of what happened falling on Henry
and then him turning the gun on himself.
That episode, like dude, is such a hard watch because you
grow to like these characters, especially Sam, you know,
because you have, you know, ellie doesn't really have that
many people that are close to her age, but joel has that all
around him.
You know, like he he can kind of he connects a little bit with
henry, even though henry's a little bit younger, but henry is
still like a father figure to his brother, whereas joel
becomes a father figure to ellie it's tough, man, you gotta turn
those you.
Speaker 2: Once they get infected, you got to they're not
your family anymore.
That's the hard truth in kind of this world and you know.
That's why for such a long time Joel had no attachments, you
know, because life was way simpler.
I mean, you got to remember that everybody can be your worst
enemy in two seconds, and I think the addition of making him
deaf even goes to show that.
Like I mean, think about it, clickers right, being able to
hear them is a defense right.
So you don't have that.
Speaker 1: You know henry has to be extra vigilant for both, you
know right, right, yeah, and and honestly, like on the topic
of clickers, like they nailed, oh yeah so good and like the
interactions and the things that they do.
They even like use some of the methods of of like navigating
around them like they do in the games, like you know, tossing
bottles and stuff.
So, yeah, I thought that that was yeah, they did really great.
They did really good with the bloater too.
Just the some of the practical effects that they had in this
show were really really good.
I am really really glad when I start to see more practical
effects.
I understand that cgi is more cost effective, but practicality
looks a lot better sometimes, not all the time.
If you could do it right, then yeah, but like, if not, then
just go the cgi route.
The walkers look really really good, especially the clickers
they added.
So they changed bill a little bit, bill and frank.
They added like a whole episode and kind of expanded a little
bit more on them.
What were your thoughts of like that addition from the game to
the show?
Because I mean, that was pretty much like a whole episode of
something that we didn't even have in the game.
We had Bill.
There was Bill and Frank, but I think at the point where you
get to the game I think Frank was already gone and you don't
know the nature of the relationship in the game I
thought it was really well done.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it gave us a slice into what normal
life looked like at a certain point during the outbreak, you
know, and how the stress of that world can impact relationships.
And I think that, if I remember the pacing of the season, it
came in a good place where it kind of allowed the audience to
take a breath between the next series of events and I guess
like it also allowed them to kind of like travel from it.
Speaker 1: There's like travel time in that period of time.
And then it explained their characters and then explained
kind of why Joel went to this place, right, you know, because
like if he would have popped up there and just been like, yeah,
you know, this is my buddy.
You know it's Bill and Frank's place, but you don't know who
they are.
Right, you know it's Bill and Frank's place, but you don't
know who they are.
Right, you know he's not dead in the game when you meet him,
but he's dead when Joel and Ellie get to that point.
You know that Frank gets sick, and so they kind of go out
together.
Essentially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was really well done.
I mean, I know some people complained about that episode,
but I thought it added more to the story so I didn't have any
issue with it and so, yeah, we're kind of like hopping
around, which, I mean, is the nature of our podcast.
Speaker 1: We always hop around, but then, you know, we get
there.
There's that point where joel gets injured in in a scuffle
with some raiders and ellie kind of has to like take care of him
.
That's in the game, you know.
I remember that in the game and this is where you kind of like
navigate.
Uh, you play as ellie for a little while and, yeah, you know
we have these cultists, you know, and then troy baker, which
is kind of facing off against his real life counterpart, like
you know, like he voices the character, so like he's facing
off against the character that he voices.
For what did you think about that interaction?
You know that that how they did that whole sequence.
Speaker 2: I thought it was really good because I had
forgotten why I should be scared .
I think at first had forgotten why I should be scared, I think
at first.
So you know it doesn't.
I don't think it quite hits the same because I think in that
portion of the game you're pretty freaked out by that point
in the game you know how dangerous everything is around
you.
And now you're not joel, you're ellie.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, a little bit more vulnerable.
They always make the smaller characters a little bit more
vulnerable.
Speaker 2: So I think that that was really.
I don't think there's any way they could have kind of made it
the same, but I thought the interaction was really good and
I thought that the cabin scene or the lodge scene when it's
burning, I thought that was super well done and I actually
thought that bella ramsey came off to me as see, this is where
I think her casting works well, because I don't think I was ever
I never was scared of ellie.
Like you know, she started doing darker things, but I guess
the character model is always so cheery looking I mean still
has sad face sometimes but just when Bella is able to kind of
escape Troy and as she's like going crazy on him, there's
something about you know the way the character is like
unraveling, right, you could see the actor.
You could see Bella Ramsey unraveling and kind of see the
actor.
You could see bella ramsey unraveling and right kind of
kind of going into madness, right where I don't think there
was ever a time where and I mean , we've seen ellie do some
things, but I don't know.
There it's something about the, the way the hair is poking up
and and the way the blood is spattered and and I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's something to be said she was in true like
fight or flight mode.
And like in that instance, like she knew that, like she was,
either she was going to die if she either did not get out or if
she didn't fight.
She was at a point where she had no choice, she had to fight.
You know, and really think I mean obviously there's been a
build up to this point, obviously there's been a
build-up to this point.
But I feel like it's after this where you really feel joel and
ellie lock into that father and daughter dynamic.
There's always kind of been a dynamic building up to it.
Speaker 2: But like you really really feel, because he embraces
her and he calls her baby girl yeah, and I think that the show
was more effective in getting us to see that Ellie's going down
a very dark path.
Because you're killing so many people in the game, you have to
kill people, right?
I feel like I play tons of games where I kill people, but
if I keep the killing to a minimum, I feel better.
Right, like in Red Dead, I generally don't kill random NPCs
.
I don't really rob the trains unless I'm forced to.
I don't rob the stagecoaches unless I'm forced to.
But, like, if I do something and somebody's going to go rat
me out like they're an eyewitness, I'm like, well'm
gonna have to kill them, you know, and I and I try and I
don't even feel too bad about it as I dump their body on on a on
a campfire, like savagely, to make sure there's no evidence.
Speaker 1: Oh man, so you're taking snitches.
Get stitches to the whole new, new level oh yeah snitches get
roasted oh, no, uh.
Speaker 2: I, if I, if I have to kill somebody in red dead, I'm
going to burn them.
You don't bring them to the alligator.
I will do that.
I really don't want to turn this into how many.
Speaker 1: The Red Dead podcast.
No, I get it.
Speaker 2: But when you're playing as Ellie and you're
playing as Joel, there's nobody really in the game that I feel
like you kill and you really terribly feel bad about, because
even in the game, when you get to the last, you know when
Joel's about to break her out, right when he figures out what's
going on, you're like I gotta get Ellie right, like that's
what you're thinking as the player.
So I'm not.
I'm like, yeah, I got some AKs.
Now you know I'm excited about that.
So, yeah, I'm not.
I'm like, yeah, I got some AKs.
Now, you know, I'm excited about that and I don't, I didn't
feel bad about killing everybody in that facility
Because by that point in the game I'm so connected to her and
, right right, the show does a really good job.
I think of kind of demonstrating how dark both of
them are in a way that I don't.
I think of the nature of you being the player.
You don't feel that way right, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: So when you're experiencing it it's easy to
kind of glaze over stuff, but when you're an actual like
observer, you can always pick up , like you know, any subtle
nuances or anything that like just the very smallest of like,
just detail.
And that's why I say like joel and ellie are very much so two
sides of the same coin, except one is a 14 year old girl and
the other is a 36 year old man, or in the show of 56 year old
man.
So it's we're no, he's 46 in in the in the game, because it's
it's 10 years later, yeah but yeah, I really feel like one of
the biggest things.
So this game takes place in the zombie apocalypse.
You have zombies, clickers, everything going on, but it's
very much so like a backdrop to this game.
I feel like the biggest thing about this game is that it's
like found family ellie finds a father figure and joel and joel
almost gets like a second chance in a way with having a daughter
because she's about the same age as his daughter when she got
killed yeah, and I mean I've always argued on both the show
in the game that if the fireflies had just talked to her
beforehand, things would have been wildly, wildly different oh
, right, right, yeah, I guess they didn't want to tell her the
truth of the fact that, like you know, she's gonna be killed.
Essentially she's going to be killed.
Essentially she's going to be a Guinea pig because they need to
figure out, like, why her blood is immune, like that.
The whole point, pretty much the game and the show, is you
playing as Joel and sometimes Ellie, you're bringing her to a
group of scientists with a group called the fire flies, because
Ellie is immune to the virus or to the cordyceps, she's been
bitten, she has not been turned, and so you know, essentially
she can be a little, she almost can kind of be a little reckless
.
I mean not too reckless in the sense that you could still get
killed, but like it doesn't matter if she gets bit, because
she's not gonna, unless she's get she has a jugular torn out.
If she gets bit on the ankle, nowhere serious, I mean she's
not gonna turn yeah, and I mean it's.
Speaker 2: I mean I've always obviously that they need to
structure that way so that she has a reason to be angry at joel
, you know.
But I won't lie, I've never thought that joel made the wrong
decision right.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I was actually gonna ask you like at
the end of the show and end of the game, yeah, you bust in
through the firefly hospital after turning her over, after
you know you find out, you know he's on his way out, you know he
gets everything he wants.
He's got his car, he's got his supplies, he's about to head out
, but then he finds out that ellie is going to get killed in
this process and so, yeah, he goes in guns blazing, you go in
guns blazing.
I like I said I personally don't think.
Yeah, like I understand, and it's a, it's like a
philosophical conundrum, you know.
It's like are you going to save the one, are you going to save
the many?
Speaker 2: right, but the thing is, see there's a moral thing,
yeah, but there's.
There's no guarantee that that's even the case right,
right, like there's no guarantee .
Look, I don't want to tell you that I would easily subscribe to
my son being killed for medicine, right?
But if I knew, if I knew they were like you know, this is a
thousand percent sure they were killing her so that they could
possibly like, why didn't you run some tests, like I mean, you
know it, the I think also, and I mean it's, you know, due to
video games and timing, right?
Speaker 1: yeah, that that was my thought too, in a way like,
why is it she runs?
Did you really have to take all the blood?
Yeah, like to like figure this out.
Could you not like, dude, you can take enough blood from
somebody.
I mean, if they could take bags of blood off of you to like
donate to people, they could do the same process, to like figure
out a you know, I guess like figure out a way to like build
up this immunity or this cure, and it doesn't happen.
It doesn't have to happen all at once.
Like take a bunch of bags, give her some time to rest, you know
obviously, build up her blood again and then just like, do you
know, do it again.
Speaker 2: Maybe look for more people who are immune I think,
if I remember it had something to do with them, like needing to
, like, split her brain apart.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're right .
Speaker 2: I think that might have been the case, but I'm sure
that like it's been a while, but I'm sure that they, like you
said could have you know spent some days analyzing blood,
because yeah you know, our immunity and our white cell
blood count is in the blood, right.
So maybe in synthesize right there could have been something
like that.
But that's always been a point of contention I had with the
game and obviously the show followed suit because they can't
do anything differently, but that's always been one thing
that just bugged me.
Speaker 1: It's like if they just ran tests or, you know, if
it was just presented in a slightly different way yeah, I
agree, I think that blood tests would have saved a lot, but then
something that happens at the end of the show and game sets
you up for pretty much the entirety of like the next game
yeah, I mean yeah, and you know we'll talk about that another
day, because that's a whole yes, that's yeah yeah, we're, we're
waiting for we.
We got the the last of us, season two.
That pretty much played out like exactly like the game you
get ellie's point of view and then you're gonna get the other,
I guess, protagonist point of view for season three and then
that'll wrap up that whole thing .
But yeah, man, the last of us.
I really do think that they did a really good job on this first
season just portraying the characters building the world.
You know it's really important, right?
You know, if you have a game that's really story-driven, that
builds the world, you have to do a really good job if you're
going to rehash that.
And then it's okay that they took some liberties to add to
the lore.
Right, we got some of these extra scenes that explained a
lot of the background stuff and the origin, just a lot of this
extra stuff that was added.
I really enjoy that.
Speaker 2: I think it's Naught naughty dog that makes this game
yes, um or or.
Speaker 1: There's a you know, are you?
Speaker 2: talking about the last of us.
Well, yeah, I was thinking about another game.
Uh, days gone by, I don't know if you ever got a chance to play
it basically.
So it's sam witwer.
To reference him again for the second time, he's the main
character and it's basically a zombie apocalypse.
But it's a guy in a motorcycle and you can upgrade your
motorcycle and stuff like that, and there's hordes and it's
crazy.
And seeing how well this show was produced, I would almost
hope that at some point, uh, we could see something like that,
because that game has some crazy set pieces with hordes coming
after you, and I think it would be really cool to see the minds
behind this show dabble there.
Speaker 1: But that'll that probably won't happen so that
that was developed by bend studio bend, all right so so
yeah, no, not naughty dog, naughty dog games have kind of
similar gameplay, not not so much jack and daxter, but I
don't know if you see like the similarities between uncharted
and the last of us.
I love some of the gunplay is very similar, although the
difficulty in the last of us is tweaked a little bit more
because you know they want things to be scarce and then you
have to kind of like build things.
And I like that whole dynamic of like building and improving
your weapons.
Speaker 2: You know, like with mix shifts, silencers and
whatnot yeah, no, I really enjoy that part of the game as well.
I mean, I do play it on a fairly low difficulty because at
this advanced stage I don't have time for the anger stress
you know like dude, I mean honestly at this point, like a
lot of people, if you just want to enjoy the story you don't
really have to like worry about that.
Speaker 1: Like dude, you know, achievement hunting and trophy
hunting, man, that's a young man's game.
Yeah, no not all the time.
But you know, I know some older folk that actually like to
trophy hunt.
But you know what?
Speaker 2: I mean my son is gonna play.
Nobody's judging my son's about to like try to play Ghost of
Tsushima on.
Like you know, he beat the game , so he's into like a new game
plus on like harder difficulty and I was like, all right, man.
Speaker 1: God bless, there's like no UI or anything on that.
Yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 2: I'm like good luck, buddy, good luck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not something I do anymore nice, but
yeah, I mean I think that that we're essentially at the point
of the podcast where we can kind of unwind.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you had any more, uh, anything else
you wanted to add or whatnot well, I guess the only thing I
would add is, I know everybody was very excited that we got a
last of us 2 video game and we got the matching show.
But I think there's such wildly different experiences, part,
you know, the first game I, I you know didn't want to keep
playing the second game, so I'll leave it there.
Uh, there, you know, I was kind of like, oh, I don't want to do
this and it almost felt like a chore, but I kept going anyway
and it'll be interesting to me to see how the fandom reacts.
That's not the game player, because you know the as you
talked about.
You referenced the shift in protagonist.
I was like, no, but there was, there was nothing to do, right,
if you wanted to finish the game , you had to play as a
protagonist.
And I think that, because it's a video game, you kind of just
choose to keep going, right, right.
I don't know what happens if people tune into season three
and they get this new protagonist who they would
presumably dislike well, I mean, I think they kind of set people
up for that a little bit towards the end.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll definitely get to that when you
know, we'll cover the last of us too and we'll talk about the
seasons, that kind of like connect with it and how you know
.
I mean, yeah, the second game, it was definitely controversial
and so it was interesting.
It was like, you know, knowing that, it's like how are you guys
going to set it up, because there's a lot of people who
don't play the games, who don't even go to watch the games.
Like how are you going to react ?
Because, you know, coming in five years later, like you know,
we I knew this happened.
You know a lot of stuff happened five years later or
earlier.
Speaker 2: So, and that's the other part of it.
Speaker 1: It's the weight, and so that was my thought with the
first game too was like I knew some of the story beats and I
was like man, I wonder like how people are going to react to
this, because to me I enjoy the story bet of the last of us more
than the walking dead.
But then again I only stopped at like season four.
I just I couldn't go any further.
But yeah, last thoughts on the Last of Us game and TV show.
Speaker 2: Both highly recommended.
I would do the game first.
It's a different experience.
I'm always a sucker for the original, so I don't think
there's anything they could have done in the show to get me to
tell you that the show is better , that it's just not going to
happen.
I love the game, but they did a really good job of adapting it
and, uh, I think it's highly.
It's better.
It's definitely better than naughty dog's other adaptation,
because I did not like the casting of uncharted, so I
thought they did a much better job here right, yeah, no, no, I
agree.
Speaker 1: And then just one last thing before and this just
kind of popped up into my head before I I put my two cents
between the game.
Something else that they added to the show that was originally
dlc to the game was the left behind the um, the relationship
between ellie and riley yep and so like that.
You know they made that a whole episode and that was pretty much
dlc for the game, so they they incorporated that story into the
show also yeah, I thought they did a good job with that too,
because I think it just fleshes out the world a little bit
better no, yeah, no, I agree, I agree.
And then the minor little scenes on the background that I have
for me this week is the scene with ellie and joel and they
come across some giraffes.
They had that in the show.
I like it when they add even like the minor scenes that are
impactful to the relationship.
It really helps with that gradual build that they have
between ellie and joel as pseudo father and daughter.
But, yeah, no, I, I agree with you.
I I definitely agree with you with the show.
It's a great watch.
The game is a really good experience and it is, I would
agree, with playing the game, because you go from becoming a
casual observer to being an actual participant when you play
the game.
So the dynamic is different, the experience is different, but
I do feel like a lot of the emotional impact remains because
you still have those major story beats that are important.
But I give a double thumbs up for the game and a double thumbs
up for the show because they do a good job for both.
And then, yeah, you had the showrunner and the game director
working close together, so you know that that's important yeah,
definitely agree, and I give them high marks for both all
righty well.
Thank you for joining us here for episode 130 of Project
Geekology and, if you want to check us out any further, our
socials they're going to be in the show notes below and, as
always, whether it's juicy or crunchies, give us a five-star
review and, if it allows you to comment us your thoughts, we
would love to see and read them.
We do enjoy interacting with our fans, so definitely follow
us on on our socials, because we do announce when we drop
episodes and you know we do interact whenever you all speak
with us.
So I hope you all have a great rest of your week, and we don't
know what our next episode is going to be, so keep an ear out
for that.
Thank you, bye, the Wolverine.