From the Ashes with Catia Batalha

What if fire isn’t just heat, but a teacher with a memory as old as time? We sit down with Katia—psychotherapist, yoga teacher, and Tantra practitioner—to explore the element that forged our tools, cooked our food, and still tempers our courage. Together we unpack how ceremony, reciprocity, and embodied practice transform fire from a resource we use into a relationship that reshapes us.

We start by reframing fire as a single, living spirit present in every flame. That shift leads to practical protocols you can apply today: how to approach a fire with respect, why offerings matter, and how group ceremony protects the sacred line between each person and the flame. Katia then shares a personal turning point—loss that reduced life to ashes—and how that destruction cleared ground for a new path rooted in yoga, indigenous wisdom, and service. From there, we get tactical. Manipura, the solar plexus chakra, governs will and healthy power; when it’s out of balance, anger and control take over. Katia maps simple, precise yoga postures that help balance each chakra, explaining how long holds act as portals to distinct states and emotional integration.

We also look at why many of us get stuck in trauma talk and how Tantra offers a complementary route: changing resonance. Instead of rehearsing pain endlessly, we train the nervous system to embody courage, compassion, and self-worth while still honoring shadow work. Sweat lodges and temazcals show up as fierce teachers—dark, hot, and profoundly cleansing—capable of catalyzing shifts that talking alone can’t touch. To ground it all, we share a new-moon fire ritual for release and creation, plus a guided transmission you can repeat: light a candle, feel the difference, and meet the spirit of fire with gratitude.

If fire built our world, what world are we building with our fire? Listen, try the practices, and tell us what you choose to feed. If this conversation sparked something, subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more seekers can find the show.

Meet the Guest - Catia Batalha

🌐 Website: https://catiabatalha.org/

📖 Book: https://catiabatalha.org/echoes-of-the-timeless/

🎶Music Credit:
Outro - Tantric Fusion by Merkaba

Chapters

• 0:21 Welcoming Katia & Fire Month
• 4:47 India, Chakras, And The Nature Of Fire
• 10:45 Ceremony Etiquette: Relating To Fire
• 22:08 Reciprocity Versus Use: Gratitude As Practice
• 29:17 Fire As Technology And Transformation
• 37:48 Loss, Renewal, And Inner Fire
• 47:16 Therapy, Tantra, And Changing Resonance
• 56:41 Balancing Manipura And Emotions
• 1:04:10 Yoga Postures For The Chakras
• 1:11:55 Sweat Lodge Initiation And Ego Death

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:21

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to Rainbows Rising, where we ascend together. I'm your host, Rainbow Raja, and as you guys know, this month we've been talking about the fire element and the different ways you can connect with the fire element. And I know we were expecting to have Craig from the Dene lineage join us and talk about the sweat lodges and the different Native American practices involving the fire teachings. But unfortunately, Craig had something come up and he had a slight emergency. But I have Katia here. She was so wonderful to jump in last minute and join me. And she also is someone who I believe is so attuned to the teachings that fire brings to our lives. And I would love to invite her into this space. So thank you so much, Katia, for joining us. Pleasure. So if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about who you are and why you think you have connected with the spirit of fire and what you bring to this month's teachings.

SPEAKER_01: 1:42

Thanks, Rainbow. Thanks for having us, and thanks for offering these beautiful teachings and just making them available to anyone who is feeling the call.

SPEAKER_03: 1:54

That's beautiful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:58

Well, I I started off as a yoga teacher. I started teaching yoga philosophy, yoga psychology, other postures as well. Like and I started feeling like the transformative aspects of it, you know, spiritually, physically, emotionally. And you know, it that became more about like the bringing, you know, calling in spirit, calling in those kind of higher vibrations and frequencies. And then it evolved towards more the grounded, shamanic kind of side. And you know, started discovering the world of you know nature, plant medicines, you know, like those ceremonies, like uh yeah, sweat lodges and you know, all all of those uh beautiful indigenous practices. And yeah, so that's been I also you know live in New Zealand, which is a country with a lot of indigenous influence with Maori people, and uh um yeah, so a lot of the influence of the East and Indigenous and yeah, from that place of like yoga in higher vibrations and now from the place of like the earth and more animistic kind of uh traditions, and that leads me to where I am today.

SPEAKER_04: 3:11

I love that. I I feel like yoga and kind of as as well as things like Tantra that come from the Indian teachings, I don't know a better term for that, but India kind of cornerstoned those practices, correct? I I feel that India is a pillar of fire in how they approach even kind of Ayavet uh Ayavetic medicine, is that am I saying that? Yes, yeah, yeah. A lot of that is rooted in the fire, sacral and root chakra, which I think are our fire, you know, centers. We've got root chakra, which is you know, grounding us, but you need that ground in order to have the passion of the solar plexus and the the inspiration that comes from the sacral chakra.

SPEAKER_01: 4:13

And yeah, absolutely, yes, yeah. There's a huge influence of like Manipura in like the third chakra, the fire chakra. Yeah. If anyone who's ever been to India will probably relate to how much fire there is there, and yeah, and yeah, and really it's this element of fire. I've I feel a deep connection with it, and it's been more and more recently. And the more I go into this kind of more rooted shamanic world, the more I really discover the subtle layers of it. Yeah, I go back to go ahead.

SPEAKER_04: 4:47

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 4:49

I was just gonna say, like, um, I remember this moment where I was in um uh vision quest in Portugal, and there were many ceremonies in Temascala, etc. And at this point there was this big ceremony before we send people out to the forest. And in this ceremony, imagine like um uh a big space, there's a fire in the middle, everyone's around the space, there's plant medicine involved, and we learn about the fire that's in the middle. The first thing we do is connect with the fire, and to the point where no one is allowed to come between people who are in the circle and the fire, because the fire is the representation of the sacred in that space. So if you want to, you know, move around to go somewhere, you go outside the circle and get out. Because you can never cut that connection with the divine that the person has, which is always through the fire. And when anything is given to you in that circle, it's given to you always from the fire as a representation of whatever you receive. It's not a personal thing, it's not an ego thing, it's the divine that's given to you directly. Yeah, so that's the symbolic like representation of it. And as you said the other day, like in in one of your earlier podcasts, you know, the spirit of the fire is one spirit, you know, all the fires of all times. They are all represented in that one fire that's there right now, you know. Whether that fire is in India or Peru or New Zealand, like the spirit of the fire is there, and there's something ancient about it.

SPEAKER_04: 6:27

There is. I think that's that's interesting how you kind of brought up how there's all these fires going on, and it's almost like every time we light a fire, excuse me, give me a second, every time we light a fire, there's hundreds of fires all over the the globe that are happening. You know, somebody's got a candle lit, someone has a, you know, fireplace lit. And in a way, when we are lighting fire or when we're sitting with fire, we are connecting ourselves to the rest of the planet. I had never really considered that. That was really beautiful sentiment.

SPEAKER_01: 7:03

Yeah, the rest of the planet and the rest of time, you know, timelessness in it, right? Yeah. I love that. Yeah, and I think that's why this is really important is because, you know, I I know maybe people want to know, you know, that what are the practices and you know, like sided to work with the fire. Um, and I think this is a lot of the Maori in influence as well. Before we use something, I feel like it's really important to connect with it, you know. Like, and this is a bit of the animistic tradition, like, you know, seeing everything as a sentient being or entity or energy, you know. And and understanding that, you know, not even understanding, it's like an experiential feeling of that spirit of the fire. I feel it's so important. Like, I remember this one time in the early days of my shamanic discoveries. I found myself in the in the jungle in Peru in some shamanic retreat. And um, and I had no idea about you know plant medicines or anything, and I just found myself there, just open to experiencing, you know, whatever came from that. And so this this shaman um comes, you know, you know, just explains a little bit about plant medicine. And I'm like, yeah, cool, you know, like that sounds beautiful. And I asked him, you know, what is there anything I should know, just about anything about this process that you think I should know, you know, as a beginner? And he thought a little bit and he told me, you know, when you're participating in ceremonies, consider your relationship with their plants and their medicines, you know, and fire being a medicine as well. Are you using them, you know, to take whatever healing they bring? Or are you like respecting them as sentient beings with gifts to offer? You know, because it like in the Western society, I feel like we have a lot of this spirit of using things, like I need like some medicine, like I'm gonna just take it and use it a bit mindlessly, you know, like no gratitude, no kind of oh, let me connect with this and like feel it and like receive it with gratitude. I'll just use it, you know. And so he said, like, do you do you take these plants or medicines for granted and just expect them to fix you? Or are you grateful for their abundance, their generosity, you know? Uh are you just gonna ignore them or will you acknowledge them? You know, will you be receptive and learn and understand and honor them and integrate their blessings? Or are you, you know, just going to use them essentially, you know? Uh this is as valid for you know big plant medicines as it is for the little piece of mint you have in the garden, you know? Are you just gonna take it without a second thought, or will you connect with the plant, you know, energetically ask for its permission before you take something and express your gratitude. Also that feel that feeling of like with the fire, it's the same thing. Yeah, do you have you ever really, really connected with that spirit before you actually uh go into okay, let me use this, see how it can benefit me in my life.

SPEAKER_04: 10:30

I do, I do. I've ever since I was a young girl, like I always felt that everything had soul in it, like a spirit in it, and that was everything from paper to animals to like literally even man-made objects. And I talked to everything as a kid. I've I've slowed down on that as an adult because you can't go around talking to everything. Yeah, you know, it's it takes up a lot of time and a lot of people think you're crazy, so it it gets a little dicey there, but I do remember being young and it was almost like like a prayer over food and stuff. I remember like having a dialogue with the food I would eat, or having a dialogue with the toys I would play with before playing with them. It was like I would be like, Hey, do you feel like playing with me today? No? Okay. Do you feel like playing with me today? You do? Okay. So so what what you're saying really rings so true for at least my early life experience with making sure that you are building a relationship with something before you expect anything out of it. And I think I think this you know applies to our real relationships in this reality with humans. Like we are so programmed to expect people to help us, to give to us, to provide benefit and value. Even I think it comes from like growing up, like, what do I have to offer you? You know, when you used to like create relationships with people that were unconditional, and then those people took advantage of you, you start to learn how to like, okay, well, I don't really want to be giving my energy to someone who isn't going to bring value to my life. So you get a little bit more protective of that interaction. And it it should be considered that maybe fire and these other spirits of the elements, other spirits of nature, might have also learned that same quality of protection when they are taken advantage of so often. And it's it's really intriguing. I don't know if you had seen the episode, I don't know if it was last week or the week before, but I actually had a candle and I was like dialoguing with the candle pretty much the whole episode because I can I can hear it and I'm like, hey, I don't know. Um, but that's that's how when I'm alone, more so than when when I'm around others, but that's that's how I create interactions with all of the wonderful co-creative energies that I interact with. And I I feel that the medicine of fire, since we talked about how it does connect us not just with its own energy, but it does create almost this portal through time, it creates this portal across space. And if we have the reverence and the respect and the understanding that, you know, fire is bringing us so much, what are we bringing to fire? We used to sing songs around campfires, we used to offer something to the fire, stories, we used to bring large groups of people to enjoy its warmth. You know, when we would make food over the fire, usually we would drop some food in, we'd spread some tobacco in, we would feed the fire. But I think a lot of people have eased out of that ritual, that tradition. Whether it felt like it was unnecessary or people really started to kind of disconnect in general, disconnect from why we started doing that in the first place. Yeah, I feel like it's all of it.

SPEAKER_01: 14:44

Yeah, all of that. Like um, we have deeply ingrained in us to take things for granted. And I can really only see this now in contrast with kind of Maori culture. Like you go to a doctor's appointment, like you don't really care who they are as a person. You go to a business meeting, like let's get to business, you know, and that's not how it really would work in Maori culture. Like, you get to connect with that person and acknowledge, really acknowledge them, you know. They have this beautiful ritual, like the Hongi, where you know, two people meet their foreheads and their noses meet and their faces are together in that moment, and you take in the breath of life. And when you take in that breath of life, you know, you meet spiritually, and it is said that both your ancestors meet in that moment, and in that moment you you really understand who you are and who the other is, and you'd have a coded or you know, a conversation about okay, who are you, you know, who are your ancestors, who what is what is your land, what is your mountain, what is your river, you know, what is your tribe. And only when we really acknowledge each other, yes, let's now have a conversation. Like, as a doctor, what can you provide me? How can I repay you? The reciprocity, very deeply ingrained. And the same for the fire, yeah. It just because this then applies to everything, right? Like uh it's so so deeply ingrained that it applies to everything, so then we just kind of ignore the fire, like let's just cook something. And that's beautiful. I I hear you talk about, you know, as the child, you would talk to anything, you know, so wise, you know. I feel like our as children we had this deep wisdom that often just kind of got a bit lost for so many of us.

SPEAKER_04: 16:30

It didn't necessarily get lost, it got beaten out of me. Fair enough. I still do it, I'm just more private about it, you know. I'm I'm not out there at the public park talking to the grasshoppers as much. You know, society is brutal. People are mean, misusing their fire for that's exactly right, yeah. Yeah to oppress That's right. They feel uncomfortable and they're like, I feel uncomfortable because that person is living their truth and I don't know how to live mine. I'm gonna go make sure they question their truth more instead of ask. What are you doing? Why are you doing that? Why does it make me uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_01: 17:17

Yeah. So threatened by other people's beliefs that they don't understand, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 17:24

It takes more energy to suppress someone than it does to just listen and try and understand them.

SPEAKER_01: 17:29

Yeah, and this is a beautiful example of the misuse of the fire. Using the fire to oppress, to control, um to destroy, conquer. And uh I love the examples that you brought, you know, like being around the fire. And for me, that's like fire brings that primal connection to the sacredness of existence and the ancientness of of time and and the connection with spirit, you know, and this is why we would sing songs and you know, be around the fire. And yeah, because there is something so ancient about it. It's almost like if we if we go back in time, just try to try to imagine like the beginning of mankind, like very beginning, like we were a man in a cave, right? There was no fire. Like life was very limited. Fire is the element that brings the transformation, it brings the heat. Like basically, we could do very little. And then through fire, uh, it comes the possibility of warmth, like, so we can survive winters. Like it comes the possibility of cooking cooking foods, so there's much more options. And suddenly we can like uh create more technologies, uh, or not at the time even technologies, but more refined instruments. Suddenly, fire opens up all these possibilities that were not possible before. Like we were, and it's this element that through its heat, through its power, brings that deep transformation that makes everything possible. Yeah, and this, yeah, this is how this is part of the essence of the fire, is that uh it it's it's life force itself. It can bring you, it can transform anything. Like you give anything to the fire, it will be transformed, right? That's how powerful it is. Yeah, and anything we use, like anything from the microchips on our phones, and like uh just pretty much most things around us are built because there is fire, you know. So that transformation in all these possibilities only exists because of this raw element that is really behind everything.

SPEAKER_04: 19:56

Yeah. We wouldn't have had weapons like any any staff, any spear, any sword, guns, you know, even cannons, you know, all of our weapons, all of our means to protect ourselves, to fight for what we believe in, to be able to to be able to, you know, hunt. All of those things stemmed from fire as well. And you're right, everything around us, you look at a lamp, if it's got metal on it, it was definitely made with fire. You've got your computers, you've got your printers, you've got I'm just looking at things in my room, obviously. But you know, ever everything. I think even I think like our cars and stuff too have a lot of the ignition. The ignition is fire. Like, yeah, there's I think we really undervalue the element of fire. Even in our like the spiritual communities, I always hear people talking about how fire you know, oh, we've got these fire circles and maybe the sweat lodges are talked about. But people don't really talk about the the role fire has played in the development of our species, like how fire truly has been a catalyst for our entire species to go from caveman to tech mogul, right? Like we have gone so far, and if the spirit of fire decided, you know what, I'm kind of tired of these guys, and the spirit of fire stopped coming or calling or allowing us to utilize it if it just decided I don't like these humans anymore, we would be so screwed. We won't be able to heat our food, we wouldn't be able to drive our cars. Probably most electricity would go out. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:55

All it would take would be for the sun to just shine more, just go a little bit further out.

SPEAKER_04: 22:01

Yeah, if fire got angry at us, all of our little our little zipper lighter things to you know. Well, I know you had briefly talked to me about some of the things that you've been through that demonstrated your transformation, how you've been through some losses and you've been through some traumas, and that's what led you into starting to do your yogic practices and led you into learning more about Tantra, not the type of Tantra everyone thinks of. Um, I'd love for you to share a little bit more about your journey into these practices that have such a core root in this fire element.

SPEAKER_01: 22:45

Yeah, um, yeah, it's actually, I hadn't fully related that to fire, but actually it's fully related to fire. Um, yeah, I've come from a very difficult upbringing. Um and basically had to put all my hopes and dreams into having a child and the family, and um waited like a decade for that dream to come true, and when it did come true, like it felt like, oh my god, I've got like a new chance at life, and that chance got taken away and I miscarried. And for me, that was the moment of it's okay. It's okay because it was full destruction, absolute, this is the fire destruction, you know. I was living an empty life, I was living around alcohol, because like nothing was nothing had life force in it, like everything felt empty, meaningless, purposeless. I lived a life like I had a job and things like that, but there was no depth behind it, and I just couldn't relate to anything, I was depressed. This kind of life, and I wouldn't have changed anything in that life because I didn't know what to change or that I could change, you know. And then came the fire and it took that child away from me, you know. And in that moment, it burned my entire life to the ground, like really, like everything I believed to be true just got burnt, and I had just ashes. And from those ashes, I found yoga. You know, I found a spiritual path that helped me rebuild life through a more conscious foundation, a foundation that has depth and meaning and made just deep sense to me, deeply resonated. And I think this, you know, is related to previous lifetimes and other things. But you know, through that fire, through that deep trauma that happened, my life could be rebuilt. And this is how fire can like help us psychologically as well as obviously just physically and uh heating up our food or our bedrooms, you know. Yeah, and and then I learned how to cultivate that fire inside, you know, yoga, as we were talking about, you know, brings the wisdom of Manipura chakra, the chakra of the fire that allows us to have that personal transformation, you know, transform old old beliefs into new ones and conditioning into freedom and things that don't serve us, you know, whether that's traumas and things like that, transform them into higher sets of consciousness and more healthy relating, those kinds of things. And this is why, like internal and external work together, right? There's these beautiful fire ceremonies. You've probably been to one or many where you know there's a bonfire in the middle, and you start to relate to the fire, and then you start journaling, right? And you journal about okay, what do I want to let go of? Yeah, and I think this is actually a really beautiful uh new moon ritual, you know. Right? Yeah, new beginning, okay, like reflecting on the last cycle, what didn't work well, what do I want to let go of? Write it in a piece of paper, throw it into the fire. Um so the fire, you know, consumes what doesn't serve, and then okay, what do I want to create in my life? So yeah, that sort of thing. Uh this is how like psychological work with those rituals to power up our spiritual and personal development and evolution, right?

SPEAKER_04: 26:36

Yes. I love that you brought up the the fire ceremony because I like experienced one for the very first time when I was goodness, I must have been 14 or 15. It's like my best friend's backyard, and her mom was kind of she she was kind of a hippie. So so we all knew she was a hippie, and she was like, we're gonna do this fair fire ceremony. What I want you guys to write down is everything you want to get rid of. And I already kind of was doing altar stuff, so I had an altar and I was I had tarot cards, but I was very, very private about it because my mother raised me to believe that all of your spiritual practices and all of your beliefs need to be kept private. You never bring it up and you never talk about it with other people and you keep it very private. And so I was I remember being at this party in her backyard and just feeling like, what? People do this stuff together? What and I I was so excited. I was like, I'm gonna write down all the things I'm gonna get rid of. And I was going through I had a hard teenage years, horrible teenage years, and I was like, I'm gonna get rid of all the R A P E. You know, I'm gonna get rid of all that. I'm gonna get rid of all the guys that have hurt me. I'm gonna, you know, my mental health problems. We're just gonna write those down. Like, I remember writing down like everything that I was dealing with. Um, problems with my mom. I don't want to fight with my mom anymore. And just I I remember the excitement of being able to do this ritual for the very first time with a group of people. And you don't really notice after if anything happens. But I think the way that fire clears an entire field for new things to grow, and things don't grow immediately. It's not like fire comes in, takes everything out, and the next day there's new growth. That's like that'd be kind of a miracle, but you know, it takes time, and all of the things that I had listed have resolved. There's not a single one that I'm I'm working on. Do I attribute my current state to that one fire ceremony? I'm sure it played a part. I'm sure fire played its part. But like how you talked about like how things felt so empty and lifeless for you. And if it weren't for getting burned by fire, if it weren't for the pain for the loss, you wouldn't have had the motivation to change anything. You know, we almost have polar differences. I kind of had a um I had a miscarriage too at 20 weeks, so I deeply do understand the loss there. But after that loss, I it took a year and I was with someone and and I think I think he was just saying he wanted a family for the sake of it. But nonetheless, I thought he b I thought he was on board with me. So we were like, Yeah, we're gonna have a family. And he he was an alcoholic. So we I didn't deal with alcohol, I wasn't really very involved with alcohol, but he he was drunk all the time. And I had no idea. He was a closet alcoholic. And I only found out after he left. But I got pregnant with my daughter. And where you found your change through the loss, I found my change through the gain. So you know, you recognize that had you had your daughter or son, we don't know, that you would have probably led the same life. And probably wouldn't have had the catalyst to change anything to create a better environment for your child. Whereas for me, I had the loss, and the loss didn't change anything for me because I was used to lose loss. I was used to it was like it was just another another hole in my bucket. Like I already got 50 holes in my bucket. Like, who cares? Another hole, who cares? But once I had something to lose that wasn't like I had the understanding my daughter was her own person, that she had a whole life ahead of her, that she didn't have to end up like me. And once I had the understanding I was responsible for this child, I chose to live my life and how I chose to react to things in my environment. The people I chose to in you know involve my child and me with, I realized, crap, I gotta change. I've gotta shift, and I did. And you know, I think fire, because fire is also it's destruction, but it's also creation. Like we talked about, it's alchemy. From nothing came a human. I think that's pretty crazy. That that's probably fire right there. I mean, we all know what's involved to create a child. That's pretty fiery. But yeah, no, it's it's pretty remarkable how we we kind of have two sides of the same coin of that experience. And how we both I'm sure your your journey was so vastly different than mine, but yet here we both are, we had found a level of balance and a level of gratitude for our experience. And we I would hope both have very full life, you know, life experiences where we do have that depth we were seeking.

SPEAKER_01: 32:30

Right? Yes, exactly. And uh yeah, the the destruction of fire is what strikes me, you know, about what you're describing, but also what it brings, you know, the quality of what it brings and the richness of it is immense. Like just it makes things much richer than they were before. And uh both these examples are around psychological fire, you know, how it how it transforms our psyche. And um, you know, I'm a psychotherapist as well, so I see that a lot in my clients, you know, let's work with the psychological part. But actually, something that is quite missing from that in some way is the actual connection to the physical fire. How can the physical fire actually help us with that transformation? You know, and that example that you gave of the ceremony before, you know, to what extent did that ceremony help, you know, and call in some energies that then bring about that change? And this is not very present in common psychotherapy for sure. Um, you know, let's work with the elements. That would be pretty out there for a lot of people. And yet I don't know if that's board certified.

SPEAKER_00: 33:43

No, that would not be. I might get in trouble just mentioning it.

SPEAKER_01: 33:48

Um but but I do mention it when I have enough trust with clients, you know? Like go and do go into a ceremony. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 33:57

I I'm not a psychotherapist. I'm a life coach, totally different uh realm, I think. But I've been to a lot of therapists. I haven't talked very openly about this. I try and keep my life as private as possible. But when I was 10, I was diagnosed with bipolar and I was put on 400 milligrams of lamicdal, 50 milligrams of abilify, 100 milligrams of Zoloft, um from the age of 10. I tried a bunch of the other ones. The only thing I never touched, I refused to touch was lithium. Oh my god, yes. But from the time I'd started my SSRIs as M A O I's, um, I gained it was like a hundred hundred and hundred-ish pounds. And those really numbed me. And I went to a lot of therapists. I was pulled out of school twice a week from fourth grade to graduation to see a psychiatrist and to see a therapist. Sometimes even to be put into a UCLA research study for prodromal schizophrenia. And I spent a lot of time with I've probably had over 50 therapists in my life. 50. That's like bare like that's that's bottom of the barrel, like I'm sure there's more. If I had had a therapist who had taken less of the and how does that make you feel approach and did more of the transformation work that was really required. Because really repeating your trauma over and over and over again, I've done I became so numb to the actual narrative of the trauma I experienced that when I be you know, when I would tell people about the same things I talked about in therapy, I'd tell people what had happened to me. I would do it almost just so nonchalant, like it's not a big deal. And people were always so shocked by my experiences. They were like, Are you okay? Like, that's serious. Like, are you dealing with that? Okay, I'm fine, you know, just a guy. But the therapy really didn't, it didn't do just it just almost put it on replay all the time. And there was one therapist I had, she was a Jewish woman, and she had a little bit of a different approach. And her approach was hands-on, so she'd have me do lists. She when she found out I was spiritual, she started giving me more practice, not not spiritual practices, but more hands-on practices. She gave me goals. She told me, you don't have to talk about your memories or your trauma here unless it's coming up for you in the present moment. Let's leave the past in the past because you can't change the past. What we can do is we can change your future. And she made me realize that no matter what had happened to me yesterday, last year, ten years ago, those things, no matter how much I talked about it, no matter how much I cried over it, they're stuck, they are there. On my own, I did a whole bunch of inner child, you know, work where you go and you meditate and you go into your your past self and you you you know change the scenario. You you kind of make yourself okay with it, right? You you give yourself that false memory of security. That didn't work as well as the ho-oponopono, but early, early on when I was doing trauma work, I had to do that. But it's really incredible how just somebody saying, I'm sorry you went through all that, but there's nothing we can do. What we can do is we can map you a bright future from today. And I think her approach was more shamanic or more fire-based than any other therapist I had. Any other therapist, because all the other therapists wanted to understand why I made choices the way I did, or they were more interested in satisfying some curiosity they had within themselves versus looking at this person who genuinely needed guidance and genuinely needed a direction to go in that wasn't going to repeat those same mistakes.

SPEAKER_01: 38:52

Yes, yes. And what you're describing there is exactly one of the pitfalls of conventional therapy, or it can be, which is there is a place for you know, dive into your inner child and connect, you know, sometimes. But also there is a there is a line there where it can actually trap you in the resonance of those energies, you know, and bring you more and more into those energies. And you know, if there's anything that Tantra teaches us, and Tantra is actually my main lineage, is that you actually need to connect with new resonances, and that's actually ultimately what's going to really change things is if you understand new resonances, like unconditional love, like true acceptance, compassion, kindness, you know, like it's through the connection with these new states of being and elevated resonances that things will ultimately you will shift your vibration, you know. Sometimes you can't face, you know, shift your vibration because there's a trauma there that you need to work through and there's a place for that. But also you need to be doing light work as well as that shadow work, is my experience. Otherwise, you might just find yourself trapped in the same energies and in a pointless cycle that doesn't actually lead to healing and can re-traumatize.

SPEAKER_04: 40:13

Yeah. As someone who was in constant flashbacks for 10 years, if not more. I even got into a point where like I'd meet new people and just repeat my trauma, like in a just a normal conversation. Like, hey, nice to meet you. By the way, I had all these traumatic things happen. And like I thought that was normal. Why? Because I had so many different therapists, and that was all I did when I met a new therapist. You mean a new therapist, you tell them your whole life story. So I thought that's how we interacted as humans. I thought you met somebody new, uh, and you just tell them your whole life story because they have to know in order to relate to you. Because that was what my therapist would tell me every time I got a new therapist. So that that trained me really poorly because people really thought there was something wrong with me. When really, from the age of 10, that was how I was told you're supposed to meet new people. It was, yeah, there's a I think there's a lot that's broken in in that system. I think what you're describing as re-traumatizing, like I experienced that firsthand, and people really did think I was they thought I was crazy, but I think it was how I was programmed in these spaces that I was spending a lot more time. I was I was spending more time with my therapist than I was with my friends. I was spending more time with my therapist than I was with my parents, and it trained me how to act. And it was not a healthy way to act. And yeah, I think what you're doing where you're bringing more of this transformation, the fire element into those spaces to help people to be able to give them practices, somatic release with yoga or energetic release with tantra, like it's necessary. And I think because those are both more socially accepted at this point, because they've been around for such a long time, like I don't think you would be questioned. Like if if I went and became a psychotherapist and I was like, I'm gonna pull out my drum and I we're just gonna do some shamanic journeying. I mean they'll love it, but it's the board might question me a bit.

SPEAKER_01: 42:36

That is fringy for sure. Yeah. No, but with yoga, I haven't had too many problems. In fact, my dissertation from my psychotherapy degree was around how do you use yoga postures to balance chakras, you know, and each chakra is related to certain emotions, you know, like the fire. If it's unbalanced, it's related to anger and manipulation and control and all those things. If it's balanced, it's related to willpower, determination, healthy self-esteem, you know, like so. Everything lies in the balance of getting your chakras harmonized, activated, you know, and that chakra well-being, you know. And when we go through the chakras, you know, and I talk about this in my book. I have a book called Echoes of the Timeless, you know. And in that book, we go, I don't want to spoil it really, but you know, just to say we go through a journey through the chakras, you know, and as you get to understand each of the chakras, you understand what emotions does it relate to, you know. Are you someone in, for example, just this fire chakra, in relationships, do you dominate the other person? Are you dominated by the other? You know, are you a doormat? You know, how how do you so you we go through all those emotions and realize okay, this is way off balance, or I'm actually quite harmonized in this, like I've actually got really good, you know, like self-esteem or whatever. And so uh yeah, my dissertation was around how do we use yoga postures to balance each of those chakras, you know. So, for example, for Manipura, this fire chakra, it's around uh the postures around endurance, you know, like um, or around like abdominal compression, elongation, and twisting. So, an example is of endurance is for example the boat posture, you know, when you're lying down on your back, imagine on the floor, and then raise your legs to 40 a 45 degree angle and do the same with your arms. Do you know that posture?

SPEAKER_04: 44:45

Yes, I do. Yes, I I would do it, but I don't have much I could do it on my table behind me. You you want me to demonstrate it? I can I can demonstrate it for the do you want to?

SPEAKER_01: 44:57

Sure. Give me a second. Okay, I can I can describe what you're doing for the audio listeners. But we're seeing rainbow lie down. Uh and the no, the legs are forward. Sorry. Arms are in the direction of the legs, like this. Yes, yes, exactly. So the legs are in a 45-degree angle and the arms are on a 45-degree angle as well. So a little bit further up the arms. Man, this is great for the core. Exactly. That is exactly what I mean. So any of those postures that are core postures, it's hard, right?

SPEAKER_04: 45:36

It is very hard.

SPEAKER_01: 45:37

How long do I hold that? Well, as long as you can. In my tradition, um, you would hold a posture for you know five, ten, fifteen minutes because each posture is a portal to a to a state of consciousness. Actually, I know in the West we just brutally do random postures one after another, no idea what chakras that heals or you know how it affects us psychologically. But actually, each posture is designed to awaken a certain state of consciousness and balance a certain chakra or more. And through the work of doing that posture, you balance out your emotions. You know, I had a client who told me, I went to this, um, went to the gym and then God, I was I started feeling so angry, so angry, like out of nowhere. No one told me anything. I was just starting feeling so angry. And I was like, what were you doing? And she said, I was just doing like um I was twisting my torso like left and right, like that's what I was doing, you know, warming up, twisting left and right, left and right, you know, and that's the you know, the compression of the abdomen that I'm talking about. And I'm like, yes, that's exactly what happened, you know, you fully activated your Manipura chakra, but it's really unbalanced. So therefore, like all these emotions started to come up, you know. So exactly my um my dissertation was about that. How do you use those postures to balance out those chakras so that you can be in harmony, you know, and just to bring this back, you know, those are the kinds of tools that you we can use for our own personal healing and and balance in our lives, you know, how to use the body to maximize that psychological work, you know, the shadow work or whatever. How to use the elements around us, you know, how do we do a fire ceremony, you know, like so many beautiful fire ceremonies. My god, like the my first Damascal, my first sweat lodge, I experienced uh an experience of death, like death of the ego. I was in this festival in Portugal called Boom Fest. I don't know if you heard of it. I think I have actually. Yeah, big festival, like very like natural, beautiful, just really incredible. Anyways, uh I see this kind of structure, you know, looks like a little cave. I'm like, oh, what's happening here? Oh, this is a Temascal. I'm like, oh what's that? Oh, you just go in and you know, they put some very hot stones inside, and it's like a sauna, but more like a spiritual experience. Okay, well, let's let's have a look. I go inside, they tell me, Oh, you know, you crawl in this direction and find a seat. I'll do that. And in the beginning, I was like, you know, I sat down and there was like just earth, but beneath me, I'm like a bit like, oh, like I'm gonna get a bit dirty, you're like, uh, but that's okay. And then there was lots of people in there because obviously it was a festival, and like there was uh you know, two people, you know, on either side of me, and I was like, Oh, I you know, I don't want to touch them. This was just ages ago. I had no clue of spirituality or anything. Uh okay, well, I just stay here, see what happens. And they start bringing in the stones, right? It starts to get hot. I'm like, whoa, okay, well, this is this is interesting. Um, again, no idea what to expect, you know, and they just bring in more stones, and more and more, and then there's the different doors, you know, and I think, oh, maybe this is over. No, no, it's just another door. Okay. And it starts to get hot, and in that heat, like this ego just vanishes. Like I was on the floor, my head was on the ground in the ground, like my like I was touching everybody, like my body was all over the place. I was just focused on surviving that experience. I was looking around, seeing, okay, no one has died, so I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna die either, as long as no one else has. But this is just like something in me is definitely dying. And at one point, just everything disappeared. I didn't pass out, but just that kind of ego experience, like I'm this in little individual, you know, with these problems. Everything was gone, you know, through that medicine of the fire that came in through the you know, the grandmother stones. And when I got out of there, I felt cleansed. Just an incredible cleanse, physical, psychological, spiritual. And this is the power of these medicines, you know, they and these elements, you know, that they they can sometimes cleanse more in an hour than years of therapy. Not I'm not undermining therapy. No, no, I'm a therapist, but really, like if we can work with all we've got, you know, the elements, the medicines, the moon, the psychological talking therapy, postures, uh, you know, all of that, it really maximizes the healing process.

SPEAKER_04: 51:00

I strongly believe in that. I I do a lot of integrative therapy, like I said. So, like I started with massage therapy, and then I went into like Reiki and crystals, aromatherapy, and then shamanic healing and life coaching. So I realized that all of these things address different parts of us, but not all of us. And when people go into a massage, they're there thinking they just have this one pain, but that one pain is connected with like five fk sources that caused it. The body only responds to something that's been held for so long, and it's more on a mental, emotional, and spiritual level than it is on the physical level. That's where we're, you know, you get into somatic therapies, right? But I wanted to speak on the hut that you went into. It was almost like a sweat lodge in a way. Yeah. It reminded me of there was a book. The kin of Ata Are Waiting For You. It was something I actually read in a mental hospital, believe it or not. I'd found it at the mental hospital, and the whole two weeks or whatever I was there. I I was reading that book. I think I got through it in a couple of days, to be honest, because there's nothing really to do besides go to groups and play the piano in the in the common room. But um, I read that whole book, and it's about a dude who kind of gets poof. He he's in a bad spot and he gets poofs into this like utopia, but he doesn't speak their language at all, and their their customs are very strange. But the customs that are described are very similar to Aboriginal Australian, like they do a lot of dream dancing, they have those little huts that they go into when they have made a mistake, or if they need help with something, they go into the hut in the dark with the heat, and they just sit there until they have their revelation and they come out. And how you described you were in this hut, and you, you know, even though you felt like you were dying, you looked around, people weren't dying, you stayed there. Um that's that's kind of what a lot of us in society are doing in like our careers or in you know, like in society, like we are all feeling the pain of a broken system or a broken society. And even though we all want to escape, we all want to do something about it, we look around and we're like, oh nobody else is dying, I can endure this. But that's I think that also kind of plays into that fire. It's like if you have everyone together, you have a movement. If everyone is is aligned on a mission, it's a movement. If everyone is aligned in their suffering, you know, then we all are comforted by, you know, misery has company. Right? And you can almost be stagnant in that. And I think we are getting that that tippy point as a society where we've all been dying for so long that now there's a bit of a we're almost our we've we're having an ego death as a collective, as a society. Our species is having an ego death.

SPEAKER_01: 54:31

And we are and you know what concerns me about that is that most people are not aware of that. And you know what happens when we're on a destructive course and we are not aware of it or willing to do anything about it is the fire has to intervene. And who knows what that might look like.

SPEAKER_04: 54:52

For the individuals, I mean, the thing about life is even if you know, life will give you so many chances to make the shift on your own. They will open 10 plus doors, they give you all these different corridors to walk. They're like, hey, we see that you have these problems. You can take door A, door B, door C, which would you like? And if you're like, I don't like any of them, I don't want to do that. I know what's best for me. You don't know me. And then and then the universe is like, you don't want the prizes behind any of these doors. And you're like, no, I want something better. And then the universe is like, you want something better, huh? You think these these doors don't offer you opportun okay. Alright. Yes, for something better. Alright. And then it's like a trap door opens up from beneath your feet, you're like, okay, bye! You know, weird game show analogy there, but it's it's kind of like that, where you're being offered all these avenues, and if you don't take one, life is going to make the decision for you. And you might not like as somebody who who fire has had to intervene with. I'm a Sagittarius. Fire's fire is my path. Like that. I I grew up in the Mojave Desert. Like, you want to talk about the stone room place that's hot, like every day was 115. You can't escape it. You just breathe. It's like dry heat constantly. You're in a pressure coker 24 or 7. You're like, there is no snow. That the rains are hot. We got hot rains there. It was just like the nights are the only times that are pleasant. You got seven degrees five degree evenings, you're like, uh, it's only four in the morning. I can I can just lay out. But it's really interesting. I have watched so many people who have been given opportunities to change their perspective, to change their ways. They have excuses, they have every reason under the sun why they don't necessarily want to do that. And it's like nobody can make anybody do anything. And it's like those people don't understand when they're giving excuses or they're like, you know, it's my life, I can do what I want. It's like, yes, it is, and you will. And you'll also have to live with what that looks like to you. And I think fire really is a part of that. I think I think fire is if you want to be stubborn and you wanna you wanna feel like you're in control of your life, fire's gonna teach you how completely out of control you really truly are in your life. You can either go with the flow like water, or you can fight the power and get burned like fire.

SPEAKER_01: 57:58

Hmm. Yeah, exactly. And that's the that's the medicine of fire, isn't it? Like whether you want it or not, if you're off balance, it'll come, you know, and you might as well work with it consciously and with intention. Because, and I'm sure I've been one of those people, you know, how many signs have I had in my life that I didn't listen to before I had to lose my baby, you know? Probably many. I didn't even know how to listen, but then the fire came. So it's like um, you know, Kali, you know, a powerful mother and teacher, and she will always um be kind, you know, she'll be kind, you know, just as an archetype, not necessarily like a deity, but you know, but uh it'll be kind if it can, but sometimes it'll just be destructive because that's actually what's needed. It's not what's wanted, but it's what's needed.

SPEAKER_00: 58:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 58:56

Yeah. Well, you had mentioned your book and how you didn't want to give away too much about what's in there. But you did kind of talk about how the book takes you on a journey through the chakras. And correct me if I'm wrong, it sounded like you had different positions, yoga positions that they can try in the book to activate these chakra centers and balance them. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01: 59:23

So the book is it's more of a journey, like it's the journey of uh gradu, you know, awakening of this young woman, you know, that knows nothing about anything, and then her life gets kind of destroyed through a miscarriage, and suddenly she finds yoga, and this mystery yoga school takes her through a journey of those chakras, you know. But the journey doesn't include so much of like technical things like okay, do this posture, do that posture, but more so like her own journey. Journey of awakening and becoming aware of these realities, of you know, what are the laws of the universe, you know, like what what are the factors at play? What is each chakra about? You know, what emotions does it involve? More the psychological and philosophical aspects that she keeps learning, and then of course she runs into like the different situations in life that relate to that chakra, like failing miserably, etc. Uh so more of her.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:26

I know this sounds like you wrote it as a novel, but it sounds more like a memoir. And I I have a similar thing I'm working on. I definitely I honor, I would love to be able to leave the link for your book. Could you send that over to me and I will include that in the description?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:45

Sure. I can't confirm or deny whether the book has my life story, though.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:50

Alright, it's we we will not go there. Uh I it's it's inspired by true events. Yeah, well, let's say that, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:00

It's inspired by a true story. Yeah. But I would love to leave people with like just a bit of uh just a moment, if you like, of like how can we connect with this fire just in a very simple and deep way? Would that sound Yeah?

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:17

I would love that. I know you talked about wanting to do a transmission. I'd love for you to share that. But if we all know you told us the boat posture for 15 to 30 minutes is for our solar plexus. Um are there any other postures you'd like to share for the other six chakras that if people are curious and they want to do it, they can go just look up the posture and do it for 15 to 30 minutes. Each of the chakras. Yeah, just one posture per chakra. I mean, I'm sure there's more than one for each, but you could just throw in one and they could all balance their chakras.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:59

Yes, I don't know how well I can describe them, but I can show you. Sure. Yeah. Um, okay, let me just point for those on the main podcast.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:10

Please go check out Rainbow Raja's YouTube for these postures. I will timestamp this moment.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:18

What a lovely space. Thank you. Uh okay, so first uh chakra, like let's see. Fruit chakra. The first chakra. Okay, so first chakra is around postures where you can bend the sacral, like the the bottom area, the perennium, perennium area.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:41

So, like for example, this one. Okay. Forward bend is what I'm doing. Forward bend.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:48

So forward bend works well for first chakra, you know. Uh so the second one, second chakra can go more towards this sacral area, so anything that extends or contracts the sacral area. So, for example, the half moon. All right, half moon, half moon, like bending backwards essentially.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:11

I feel like I should do these with you. I'm just gonna join you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:19

I mean, normally I would do these for like five minutes each, you know, but I just yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:25

Then the third one, the boat, we've already seen. We did the boat, we got the boat. Yeah, and if you hold the boat, you'll see that immediately you start to warm up.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:36

Like the fire instantly starts to get activated.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:40

If you do it for 30 seconds, you already see that, right? Start vibrating. Exactly. The vibration is a good sign.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:52

Then for the heart chakra, posters that open up the chest area, for like the the slate cobra cobra is what we call in English.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:01

I'm more used to the sunscreen script names. That you know that one exactly. Uh okay, then the throat chakra.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:15

Throat chakra is around intuition and um so postures that and communication postures that yes, postures that involve the neck contracting or elongating the neck, and a really good one for uh that chakra is the you know the upside down posture.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:40

I will show it now. Okay, I think I can do I could do that one. We'll see. Where our shoulders are on the ground, it's called the shoulder stand. Our shoulders are on the ground and our feet and legs are up.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:54

Man, you go higher than I do. This is hard.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:58

Yes, and you're meant to be like a candle, you know, on the straight line.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:03

I can't. Hold on, wait, wait, wait. I need a little more support to my lower back. Am I doing okay? I'm a little afraid of falling off my massage table. Hold on, wait, oh there we go.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. All right, bro, chakra.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:30

Then for Asna, you know, it's just about inner vision. Then it's postures where you're upside down. Like um, an example is there's a posture where you're like bending forward and you have your fists with the thumbs out, and you put them in your shins, but really any posture where your head is lower than your waist.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:57

So like this.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:00

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:02

And then for the crown chakra, which is really a portal that opens up to you know break spirit, you could do the headstand, but I probably won't do the headstand because I don't want to encourage that if people don't really know what they're you know doing because they might get hurt. But an alternative to that is something that like you can make a triangle with your arms when you're in the ground, which I'll do.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:31

And then just yeah, like but with your knees on the floor, uh you can make a triangle and then go down.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:42

Well, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:45

If they work on that one, they can get the knees on their elbows.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:49

That one I'm good at.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:50

I can do that one.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:51

Your feet are on the floor, your bums up, and your head's on the floor essentially. Yeah. And just I wouldn't get up too quickly from that position. You guys work your way up to that one. Yeah. The only yoga move I'm good at.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:04

Sitting on my head. I would spend like I would spend probably a week teaching each of these postures, you know, they're not to be done lightly, you know. I'm just showing for experienced yoga practitioners who already know the postures what chakras they activate. But not necessarily, you know, don't just do random things, but you might get hit.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:26

All of you guys, if you are interested in activating your chakra full potentials, please follow the links in the description. Go to Katya. Katya.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:43

She will teach you the ways of the chakras. Or there's just lots of like videos people are offering and they're different literature. Like, this is this is wouldn't say it's common knowledge, but it is decently widespread.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:57

Well, thank you so much for joining, and I would love for you to close out today with that the fire transmission. I think what you brought to the show and to the listeners is transformative.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:14

You ignited a fire in all of us.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:18

Oh, that's beautiful. Yes, I think each person really is like responsible for their own ignition, but I'm happy to offer whatever I can. We're very grateful. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for doing this work. It's beautiful. Yeah. Okay, so ideally, if people had, we're not gonna do the candle exercise that you did last time, don't worry. That was beautiful how you talk to the candle, by the way. That's so so uh original. Never seen it done that way. But if if people have any fire in front of them, this would be really ideal. If not, just imagine it and you can just imagine it in your mind. It's just it's take about taking a moment to connect with that fire. And if you have a candle in front of you, just look at that fire and feel the timelessness of it. This fire is ancient, it's been with us from the beginning of times, and it will be there till the end. This fire doesn't belong to this place, it belongs to all places, and through it we can experience all the fires in the world. So, what is the spirit of that fire? And this is something I cannot answer for you. It can only be felt inside. And what I invite you to do, whether now or later, is put out that fire and feel what the room feels once the fire is out, and then ignite it again and feel what it feels like when the fire is lit. And you might notice that it's not the same room. Now, once you have this encounter with the fire, feel as if you're doing a hongy with the fire, you know, like your forehead against and your nose against it. How does it connect with you? Not physically, obviously, because that would be dangerous, but yeah. And when you when you feel its spirit, just take a moment to show your gratitude or just to feel gratitude inside, or it's medicine for what it brings to your entire reality. It's huge, it's too much to be grateful for almost. So thank you, fire, for your medicine. And this world would just not be the same world without it. And then at another point, if you felt like it, if you had some herbs at home, you know, as Rainbow said, like some tobacco which is traditionally offered, or some sage, some incense, you could offer it to the fire as a show of gratitude. Or if you know a fire song, could or any song really you can offer from your heart will be beautiful. Sing a song to this fire. We won't do that now, but just anything that expresses gratitude for its medicine, for its warmth, for its cleansing transformation, for its power, and for all the attributes that it activates inside of us. We would just not be the same without fire. Thank you, fire, for all that you bring. And that's it. When you're ready, can come back.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:38

Thank you. That was so lovely. I I really liked even though I don't have fire present, being able to visualize the spirit of fire, even in my mind's eye, lighting the fire, putting it out, and reigniting it, like it changed the terrain inside my mind. So it was really cool. I haven't usually when I do any elemental work, I'm working with the element like hands-on. I haven't done a lot of visualizing the spirit of the element and meeting them there in the astral and cultivating a relationship with them there. But it was a unique experience because you can uh place your forehead against fire, you can give fire a hug in that space without being burned. And um I know we did a really quick meditation, but while I was in that space, fire also showed me a time when people would communicate through fires. Like they would light a fire and their you know, who they wanted to send a message to would also light a fire. And they would have a certain time of day, like when the sun went down, people would like light their fires and like through intention work they would communicate, they'd send messages, they'd speak to the fire, the fire would send the message to the other person like like a telephone. And I don't know if that's true, but that was just something that came through long you know the it was like showing me a lot of Europe. It was like a lot of Europe of doing that. So it was it was very interesting because I had never considered that fire may have been like the first form of communication because we have all these these different traditions and and belief systems that are all over the globe that are during the same kind of time, but they were all like very similar practices, but they were all on different edges of the globe. It's like, well, why why did they all is it just universal consciousness? Did two shaman just happen to sit at the fire and fire communicated what they were doing to each other so they were able to share this technology, the spiritual technology? So that's just really interesting how fire just kind of showed me this little like tidbit of historical fire wisdom. I don't know if it's real, could be not real, but I don't know, it came out of nowhere. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:16

What I love about that is how fire showed you something, you know, like you connected with it and it actually gave you some grounded wisdom that it had to share with you in this moment, you know? That's beautiful. Yeah, that's such a beautiful example of what you know this element or any element or any medicine can do for you, really.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:38

Thank you. Yeah. Well, I just I just want to thank you once again for making time in your very busy schedule to show up last minute, like literally last minute, for this episode. And I'm so deeply grateful to you. Um, and I want to thank all the listeners out there for showing up time and time again, for having patience with me and my schedule as I juggle a billion things at once. And thank you guys all for joining me on this journey of learning, like spiritual development, psychic development, learning about the different practices of the world, learning about from these wonderful teachers that are all over the world. I I don't spend enough time thanking all of you for being part of this. And like if it if there weren't viewers, there would be no show. If there weren't guests like you, uh, I mean there might still be a show, but the show wouldn't have as much dimension. It wouldn't have as much passion, as much diversity. And so I'm so deeply grateful for your willingness to join me on the show today.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:54

Thank you so much. And and what you bring.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:02

Well, I hope that you'll join us again in the future and that you'll become a part of the community because I th I think you have a lot to offer. So once again, thank you guys so much for tuning in. If you're interested in meeting with Katya for a one-on-one session or reading her book, I'm gonna make sure that I include all of her information down in the description below or wherever the description is found, if you're on like Spotify or Pandora or wherever you're listening or watching this. And I am so excited to enter our our new month next month. I don't really know what element we're gonna be working on just yet. It's I'm just letting the elements unveil themselves to me as we go at this point. So we'll find out. For those of you, you know, happy, happy Halloween. I normally do a Halloween special today, but I did not.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:00

Uh, this is your Halloween special. Surprise! That's the fire. Transformation. Um, I'm gonna play myself.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:11

Anyway, I hope you guys have a wonderful rest of your day, and I'll see you guys next week. Bye.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:52

I feel uh come to some conclusions with some understanding for our own sexuality within us. And how far and how deep do we want to go?