Handling Difficult Clients Without Losing Your Cool

 summary

In this episode of the Veterinary Survival Podcast, Mark, Jenni, and Chris delve into the complexities of managing difficult clients in veterinary practice. They discuss the emotional and financial toll these clients can take on practices, the importance of setting clear boundaries, and the need for effective communication strategies. The conversation highlights the distinction between entitled clients and those who are simply going through tough times, emphasizing the necessity of compassion and understanding. Additionally, they explore the impact of client reviews, the pitfalls of discounting services, and the importance of fostering a supportive practice culture that empowers staff to handle challenging situations effectively.

Takeaways

• Difficult clients can significantly impact the emotional and financial health of a veterinary practice.
• It's crucial to distinguish between entitled clients and those who are upset due to personal circumstances.
• Setting clear boundaries with clients is essential for maintaining a healthy practice environment.
• Training staff on communication and de-escalation techniques can improve client interactions.
• Discount policies should be managed carefully to avoid financial losses.
• Empowering team members to handle difficult situations can lead to a more positive workplace culture.
• Regular team meetings can help address communication issues and build a supportive environment.
• Client reviews can influence practice reputation, and responding to them is important.
• Practices should be selective about the clients they serve to ensure a positive working environment.
• Compassion and understanding are key when dealing with clients in distress.

Chapters

• 00:00 Navigating Difficult Client Relationships
• 06:01 De-escalation Techniques for Client Interactions
• 11:49 Setting Boundaries and Expectations with Clients
• 18:07 The Case for Firing Clients
• 23:58 Compassion vs. Business: Finding the Balance
• 29:58 Effective Communication Strategies
• 36:47 Managing Discounts and Financial Health
• 41:58 Handling Online Reviews and Reputation
• 46:58 Setting Boundaries with Clients

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

We know that running a veterinary business can sometimes feel like you're fighting your way through a jungle of financial insecurity, HR nightmares, and overall business confusion. Our goal is to give you the ideas and tools you need to not just survive in this jungle, but to thrive in the veterinary industry. By combining over 50 years of knowledge and experience with differing opinions and a little humor, we will help you get the information you need to make the best decisions for you and your veterinary business. Welcome to the Veterinary Survival Show with veterinary CPA and certified financial planner Mark McGon and Certified Veterinary Practice Manager and Practice Owner Jenny George.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of the Veterinary Survival Podcast. Today we have an important topic that not only touches the veterinary industry, headbands to all industries, but we have a unique perspective on how to deal with that, and that's dealing with sometimes difficult clients. I know we love our clients, but sometimes there can be situations that arise that really take all for a practice owner and then also can affect the bottom line as well. So before we jump into that subject though, Mark and Jenny. Jenny, how are you doing this morning?

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Doing good. My uh blood pressure was up really high yesterday from dealing with difficult clients. So this is an extremely timely like I had a migraine when I went home, and I said, I think it's because I was so angry. So this is a very timely, very timely episode. Mark, is your blood pressure up because I haven't gotten you my tax information yet?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I wasn't gonna mention that, but while we're on the topic. Of difficult clients? No, not difficult. Oh, difficult. You can say it. It's okay. You have different priorities.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

True. That is true.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

All right. So um just jumping in there right there. When you're thinking about your practice, Jenny, what does uh a difficult or entitled entitled client actually look like in a veterinary practice?

SPEAKER_02 2:00

So I think in our the ones that I really have a hard time with or that we have a hard time with are the ones that kind of lose sight of the fact that we are a team working on their pet. For the most part, 98% of our clients are amazing. And I can say that because we've weeded out the ones that didn't fit with us. I have no problem letting go of clients who don't fit our culture, who argue with everything that we say, who think that they don't have to pay for services when they're rendered, you know, or threaten. You know, that's that's absolutely not appropriate and it's not allowed in our practice. So for the most part, I would say our we have very, very good clients, but the ones that really give us a hard time are maybe the clients who, you know, just don't take into consideration the fact that we're on the same team as them. You know, without our clients, we can't properly take care of their pets. We they, you know, an animal can't come in and say, hey, this is what's wrong with me. We have to rely on communication with the client. What are you seeing? What are the symptoms that you're seeing at home? What had you concerned enough to come in today? You know, we have to have people who are on the same belief of as we are with regards to nutrition, with regards to vaccines. And, you know, we have a lot of people who not a lot, but some people who do have pushback to our nutritional recommendations and our our, you know, we had somebody who asked for lab results and we gave it to them and they said, Oh, why do you use that lab? I would never believe anything that they say. And I'm like, well, that's the lab that we use, and that's the lab that we're going to continue to use and that we have used for the last 18 years. So if you don't agree with that, then don't waste your money here because that's where we're gonna get our results from. So, you know, it's having very straightforward conversations with them about how we do things and what we expect. And I have no problem having those conversations with clients and saying, hey, you don't get to speak to our receptionists that way. You know, but there is a difference between difficult clients who are entitled and difficult clients who are just upset because of the situation that they're in. And it's very important for us to remember that.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Oh, that's a great distinction right there. Um, Mark, from a business advisor standpoint, how expensive are difficult clients beyond just the emotional toll and giving Jenny those migraines? Sorry about that again, Jenny.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

I have one right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Me? No, not you. Um, I I think they create a lot of angst and excess concentration when an advisor such as myself thinks about clients, kind of depending on how you deal with problems, makes you overanalyze things that you probably shouldn't go down to that rabbit hole and you should just focus. I think it takes the focus away from people's day. If you're dealing with a difficult situation during your workday, even just being interrupted, they say it takes 20 minutes to get back to the right train of thinking to renew your workday. So if a whole team is involved in in a veterinary hospital, you know, wayward pet owner and their situation, it takes 20 minutes for each of those individuals. If you have 15 employees, that's 20 minutes out of every person's day that's wasted. And and that's just on one wayward pet owner. So I think if your pet owner responsibilities is listed on your website and in your front reception area, here's what we tolerate and what we don't tolerate. And maybe that may set the stage for either culling out your patient base, just purely you love the dog, you just don't love the owner because of the way they interact with you and your staff. Some people are entitled. I mean, I live in a town where a lot of people are entitled. I mean, crosswalks are a suggestion not to hit pedestrians because people are so busy. I mean, you've got to take your kid to karate, and who cares about the person walking their dog in the crosswalk? If those are the people that that are in your practice and the rules don't apply to them, they apply to everybody. Sorry. It's gonna create extra angst on the behalf of the front desk CSR person, the veterinarian, the technician, kennel staff, whoever it may be. And they just don't need that. There's enough stress in in a veterinary hospital during the day with patient care, let alone pet owner care. And I'd rather have people devote their time to pet owner care or pet care than pet owner care.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

I think when you talk about cost, turnover is a big one. If you have team members who deal with abusive clients and your practice owners are not backing them. And, you know, I remember I had, we had, this was the practice, the practice that I used to work at doesn't exist anymore, but we had a client who was so just gross, you know, he would drop stuff and be like, Jenny, can you bend over and pick that up for me? I mean, like, totally inappropriate. And it takes, I can handle a lot. I have pretty thick skin, but I finally went to my boss and I'm like, look, this guy's really making me uncomfortable. And my boss just went, ha ha, yeah, that's how he is. And that was it. And, you know, now, I mean, this was, you know, 25 years ago. So a lot, you know, people got away with a lot more then. But now that kind of stuff will get you a lawsuit from your team members and have a lot of turnover. So it's very important to to remember that right, the rule rules have to apply to everybody. And if you don't have your team's back, you're just you're gonna be walking out the door constantly, which is a huge cost.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Yeah, that's terrible. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Um hopefully I know you you wouldn't stand for that for your team today. And that's why culture is so important for you, Johnny, uh protecting your people. Um but I what's on one thing just harken back earlier. You said there's a difference between a client that's going through something, um, as we all have. Like one of my best friends was my dog passed. I was obviously in a very emotional state. But um, what's your status or how what's your go-to um um for when someone's escalating at the front desk or in the exam room? What's your your process? Do you not react emotionally? Do you try to de-escalate? What what's your for dealing with that difficult client? Or maybe they're just going through a difficult time, as you mentioned earlier.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Yeah. I mean, I think again, there is a very it's funny because sometimes when we're all really upset, we're like, fire that client, fire that client. I'm like, tell me why. Give me a good reason. If you give me a good reason, I will 100% consider it. But if it's just because they're being dumb, you can't fire somebody. We fired everybody for being dumb. We might not have, I mean, I'm not saying this about my personal clients because we have great clients, but sometimes you wonder if you'd have any clients left. I, you know, I had to have a conversation with a client yesterday about the fact that they really shouldn't mail cash. So these are people that we we assume uh common sense and sometimes we can't, but also it's very important to remember that nobody wants to be here, right? Nobody wants to go to the vet. Yes, their pet, you know, I just before coming on, I had a lab downstairs whose tail was wagging. That lab is very happy to be at the vet. He knows he's gonna get treats and a cheese mat and lots of lovin', and he could care less. But what the owner sees is money, time spent coming here, you know, and making sure that their pet is, you know, that underlying worry is there's something wrong with my with my dog, even though his tail is wagging and he's eating treats with a lab, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. They could be dying and still want a piece of chocolate cake. So it's important to remember what that there are jerks and then there are people who are upset, and we've all been in that, you know, like Chris, what you were just saying. We get very emotional when, you know, we have a lot of animals that come in here and they think my pet just hasn't been eating for a couple of days. We throw that ultrasound probe on them and we find a big tumor. And so here we are having to give this, they thought everything's okay, and we're going, we have to have that conversation about quality of life. And the client is very unprepared for that. So, one, you have to handle that properly in the first place. Make sure that your team is trained properly in how to deal with grieving clients, how to have difficult communication, how to de-escalate, lower your voice, make sure that your body language is not saying I'm closed off, but I'm open to hearing what you say. You know, we try really hard to not say, I understand where you're coming from, because we don't. We all have very different experiences, life experiences, and so we don't understand. You know, what my dogs mean to me might not be the same thing as what Mark's dogs mean to him, which might not be the same thing, you know, that Chris, you know, everybody's pet relationship with their pets are different. So, yeah, when clients start to escalate, we have myself, my husband, my veterinarians, you know, probably not my newest veterinarian, but my veterinarians that have been here for 10, 11, 17 years, you know, are able to go in and have a conversation with them. I have an office manager, I have a head road tech, you know, all of these people that we've kind of gone through communication training on how to not rise to that level, which is hard because we're being emotional too. You know, we feel attacked. We feel like, oh, you're questioning the medicine that we practice, you're questioning our our procedures and our policies, but it's just removing yourself from that and just bringing it down a notch. So my team is very aware that they can come and get us if they need to. You know, they're not ever by themselves. And I also believe in empowering my team to say, hey, you don't get to talk to me that way. You're not welcome here. And it doesn't happen very often, but it's really in empowering your team and having a very strong culture so that your team knows what is accepted and what isn't. I don't, Mark's point, I don't have it listed, but we have slowly weeded out those clients over time. And our clients treat us with treat us with respect because we treat them with respect. But I do always say we have to remember that I don't really want to be here. So if it is something emotional or a normal good client is acting really out of character, you don't know what happened in their day. Maybe they had a flat tire on the way. Maybe their mom just got, you know, went into hospice. Who knows? So just having compassion in all that we do.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

Oh, that's awesome. Um hearkening back to something I think you both said too just a little bit earlier when um not having those expectations. So, Mark, you mentioned having that that set rules in there, like this is what we'll accept, this is what we'll not. Jenny, you mentioned training your staff on this. Um, for other for practice leaders out there, again, I feel like I'm sometimes a surrogate for our listeners that are other practice leaders want to know about these topics. Um do practices sometimes unintentionally train clients to behave this way by being overly accommodating and doing anything to them? Mark, what would what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

So, I mean, some people are constantly available 24-7. They don't have a shut-off button. So they take calls on their cell phones from special clients after hours, nights, weekends, during kids' basketball games, hockey games, dance recitals, parent-teacher conferences. I've heard all of them. Is it right? It's great to be available, but some people that's when they always call. It's not during normal hours, it's always after because it's just a quick question. Years ago, I used to give my cell phone out to everybody, now just Jenny has it. No. And a few other people. But some people will will if if you give them an inch, they'll get they'll take a mile. Is that right? No. I mean, if you want to do that for a few people, fine, but if everybody's doing it, it's gonna encroach on your life and then they're gonna expect more things from more team members and they're gonna push the boundaries. You know, I go to a restaurant where I can walk in and my table's ready because that's, you know, we're friendly with the the owner. But if I went in and I was an hour late and I started yelling at the sushi chef because, you know, they didn't have uni, I mean, that's what I feel that happens at a lot of veterinary hospitals where people just demand special treatment and do they deserve it? Every dog, I think, deserves special treatment. Does every pet owner deserve special treatment? I think they deserve excellent treatment. Do they deserve special treatment that nobody else is going to get and they really don't deserve it? Probably not. Unless they're at a concierge veterinary practice where they're one of a hundred unique clients and that's all they're seeing, and nobody else is gonna walk in and demand anything because it's their time to be there. But when you have a busy veterinary hospital with the packed waiting room, people are already running behind because of they've seen a couple of emergencies or urgent care cases during the day, it's not really the most opportune time to offer that special care because somebody else is gonna be impacted and then their day is gonna be thrown off and then they're gonna feel less special, which we don't want everybody feeling less special.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Right. It's interesting that you brought that up, Mark, because we had a client and Chris to the point of do we train our clients? We absolutely do. We absolutely it's the same like you know, our dogs train us, right? Our dogs train us that I, you know, oh, you're my in my house, my dogs love ice cubes. So if I get an ice cube for my cup, they're right there saying, Well, you know, give me an ice cube. So they have me trained. We train our clients the same way. And we had a client once that she was this little old lady, and she came in, she was switching to us from another veterinary practice because she didn't like their care. And she came in and she wanted to get thyroid medications for her dog. We had not seen her dog yet, and we didn't have a prescription from her previous veterinarian. So my receptionist said, you know, I'm really sorry, that's illegal. Like we can't, this is not a choice. This is illegal. We cannot sell you prescription medications without a client, veterinary, patient relationship. Okay. She lit in, this little old lady lit into my receptionist, just up and down, called her nasty names. I can't believe you don't care. All the things. So she leaves, my receptionist comes upstairs and she was shocked. I mean, she was literally in shock. Jenny, I can't believe that this person said this to me. And I said, okay, let me give them a call. So I called her and I said, Listen, you're not even a client here yet. You don't get to speak to my team that way. And her response was, that was the only way I could get things done at the vet practice I was at before. They wouldn't listen to me until I started yelling. And then when I started yelling, they would cave and they would give me whatever I wanted. But before that, if I just asked for something, they ignored me. And I said, Well, I'm going to tell you we do things differently here. The nicer you treat my receptionist, the more they they run everything. They run our schedules, they run our doctor's lives, they run my life. Like they run everything and they can either make your life really easy or not. So the nicer you are to them, the more they'll give you. That woman turned out to be for the time that she was on this planet, was the nicest client we have ever had. She brought us fresh flowers from her garden. She would make us fresh brownies and bring them still warm in the pan for our team. And we gave her everything that she wanted. So if you're only if you're so busy that you can't respond properly, then you can expect people to lose their temper more often. But if you take your time and speak to them, it can make all the difference in the world.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

I love right there too. So you didn't avoid the difficult conversation and had it early. So sometimes, too, if you let those things fester, it's not, it's gonna get to a breaking point where you can't have that come to an agreement or hey, let's make this thing better. So yeah, and really going at that early, setting that expectation so that people and then that was great to hear her side of the story that it wasn't just uh being entitled that she that's the only service she got from her old place. All right. On the flip side though, Mark, as an advisor to all these CPAs, and let's just say they have um a client, I'm gonna I'll hearken back to when I was 12 years old and I was running a pay per root, and this guy told me he'd get me back next week, and that turned into, I think I was$2 a week and got up to$36. And I was 12 years old. So I didn't know about sending someone to collections, but I had to fire my first client um from my pay per root because he just refused to pay. Um is there a financial case for firing a client that you'd advise to your um to other one that you advise or and those the veterans listen out there?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

I hate dealing with payments. Just absolutely hate it. I'd rather just do the work, not get paid. But oh, good to know. That was just a note to self. I didn't say that out loud, did I?

SPEAKER_01 19:08

No.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

So some people don't mind dealing with payments, and I had an 89-year-old office manager that she loved collecting money. She loved talking to people, but oh, in the midst of a conversation, now let's talk about settling up your bill, and she would not get off the phone until they did something. So she was a great collection agent. But I think it stands that every vet hospital needs to be paid, not purely because they need to charge somebody for something, but those dollars pay staff, pay the lab, pay your vet suppliers, keep everybody happy. It's a machine that needs to keep running, and it doesn't run on free will. So I think 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, that's the cutoff. If there's something that can't be done by then, and I've seen lots of hospitals' accounts receivable reports, you know, for the past 25 years where there's always a breeder on there that's gonna pay and they owe$12,000, and they're carried because they're good clients. Well, my partner Alan used to say, every client is a good client. And I said, the right client is a good client. The right client values your time, they'll pay you willingly, some will even pay you more. We have a client that sends us a tip every year. I don't know why, but he sends us a tip. He runs up.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

I was gonna say this on me. I love you, but no.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

I tip my plumber, so he'll come back and chime quick.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Right, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

But I think that those Jenny said that she didn't have expectations written on her website or or somewhere formally, but a lot of people put it uh in standard language and people kind of gloss over it. But if you had a deal breaker, you know, yelling at my staff, kicking the door when you leave, peeling out in the parking lot, you know, yelling at dogs in the waiting room, and not paying us.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

It's funny, mine's 120. Mine's 120 days.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

120.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

But I have a series of things that I do up until then, right? Like I call the and now we have text-to-pay options and all this kind of stuff. And I mail them, you know, so they I love when people are like, I didn't know I owed you money. I've texted you, I've called you, I've emailed you, I've mailed you letters, and I've mailed you statements. So are you really off the grid? Because that's I haven't Facebook messaged you.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

But I mean, even the IRS has made it easy to pay. You used to have to register. Now they have a direct pay website where basically you say, Here's how much I owe and here's my bank information, take the money. Everybody makes it easy to pay. So if somebody hasn't complied with that request, then they don't value your service and they can go somewhere else. We have a hospital in northern Massachusetts that basically they'll call if somebody owes money and they won't pay and they know their dog needs vet care, they'll call the three surrounding hospitals around them and say, hey, guess what? They're coming to you next. It's kind of like a chat group, and they'll warn each other. Is that legal? Yeah. You're like, I don't know. They're not disclosing confidential financial information or personally identifying information. Name, age, social security, birth date. They're just like, watch out. They're coming in. Get paid up front. Get a security deposit.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And I here's what I'll also say to that.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Don't there are people, I'm a sucker. We own our own practice. We're privately owned. I had a guy who 10 years ago he owed us a couple thousand dollars. We had to put his dog down. I still had his dog's ashes down because I never I swear it's like karma to get rid of ashes that people haven't picked up. So I have this room downstairs with boxes of ashes of people. This guy came back 10 years later. I did not send him to collections for whatever sob story he had at the time because I'm not heartless. I try to be, but I'm not. And he came back, he paid the total. He has been a great client since. I gave him his dog's ashes. So I mean, it's amazing how the people who you think will never pay. You know, I had one guy pay$25 a month for nine years. Is that ideal? No. But he also, you know, there was a huge circumstances. Fine. I can be patient, but it's the people who disappear, don't call. Those are the ones who really tick me off.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Those are the ones who give me migraines.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

Jenny, on the inverse of earlier, so with the with the lady and that guy, that's a great story as well. Have you ever had to learn the hard way and regretted keeping it longer, uh client longer than you should have?

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Absolutely. All the time. I mean, I think the veterinary space is filled with very compassionate people. We are here to help, right? And we want, and you know, to Mark's point, we want to help every animal. That's just in our nature. I don't care who says, oh, veteran it for the money. I had somebody tell me how much vets get paid. And I'm like, have you seen my minivan outside with like holes in it? I just, okay. But I think that we're very compassionate people. We want to take care of all the animals. And we do want to take care of the clients too. So, yes, have we kept clients too long and not put our foot down? Absolutely. Have we allowed too much, you know, of that entitled behavior? Absolutely. And then eventually we have to have that conversation that, hey, you want us to be on call 24 hours a day. You want excellent team members who are willing to work for you in the middle of the night when you're when your horse gets a laceration or your dog gets into porcupine quills. And I have to pay them appropriately and right. We have to all of our our fee, you know, our our the prices of all of our pharmaceuticals have gone through the, you know, I've had this conversation with people like, look, you want us to offer these services. We have to pay our team so that we can continue to do this. And so to go back, the earlier you can have that conversation, the better. The earlier you can have the conversation with somebody who steps out of line. You know, and I've said to people this, I had a client that I was like, this is the last time I'm going to talk to you about this. If you are nasty to my team one more time, we're done. And then I fired him because he just couldn't help himself. But, you know, uh the earlier you can have the conversation, the better. The longer you let it go, the worse it is. But we all do it. You know, we do it with our team members. We have toxic team members that stay on too long because we're suckers and we want to give everybody a second and third and fourth and fifth chance. And the reality of it is it's hard, but it's the conversations that have to happen for your team and for your other clients and for patient care and all of that. So the earlier you have it, the better. But yeah, I can probably list right now five clients that I would love to fire. And I'm just waiting for them to step over that invisible line so I can be like, okay, we're done. But until then I just deal with it.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Well, if it's causing you great pain right now thinking about it because you're clenching your teeth, why don't you just do it?

SPEAKER_02 26:41

I know because I love their animals. That's why.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

That's really it. Is I I fear for the fact that, and this is this has always been my thing is I'm like, this might be a difficult client to deal with, but they do what we recommend. They take good care of their animals, they pay their bills. Like those are the really tough ones, right? They're paying their bills. They, you know, they might argue with us a little bit, but in the end, they almost always do what we want. But when they call, you're just like, okay, who's gonna pick it up? Because I don't want to touch the phone.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

I wonder how many people have that feeling when I call them.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Mark has that feeling when I call him. No.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

No. So, Mark, for these clients, is this a common thing because people are dealing with their pets and they're so co they're so comfortable with them, or are sometimes price sensitive or combative clients a symptom of underpricing services? So you're attracting like you're not, I don't know, going for those people that are maybe more difficult.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Are you are you meaning that you should bill higher amounts to drive people away?

SPEAKER_03 27:46

Yes, I guess that's a nice I'm being uh coy a little bit, yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Mark's just straight on, rip off the band-aid.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Well, I look on some of the Facebook sites where, you know, how do I deal with this? Double their bill and they'll go away. Well then they're gonna be somebody else's problem. Can you coach them up a little? Say, you know what, you're being difficult, you're always arguing about the bill, here's why it costs this much, like Jenny said. Give them an opportunity to reform. And then if they don't take that, you know, first strike, you know, it's not baseball, you don't wait for them to have three strikes. Give them one strike and just say, look, it's not working out because of these three things. We'll be happy to send you records somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

I have tried that coaching them up, and one time I did have to let go of a client and she was like, I don't understand. I said, You are you with everything. Everything that we say, you are you with, and we feel it has to be mutual trust, and we don't feel like you trust us, otherwise you would, you know, listen to our recommendations. And she was like, But the uh Nope. We haven't seen her since it was great. Felt really good.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

And then Jenny, I know you're you've already mentioned this that you coach your team, but for the listeners out there, how do you coach your team to handle this conversation and make sure that they feel supported? So for um, a practice owner out there listening to this, what are some tips for that?

SPEAKER_02 29:08

I think there's a lot of continuing education out there for communication. We did disc profiling, disc training within our team so that we could start to learn our communication styles and other people's communication styles. And it makes it a little bit easier to start to say, I see that Mark is a C on the disc profile. He likes charts and information. And so I know when I speak with Mark, I need to say, This is what it is, this is, you know, why we want to do what we want to do. Here's where you can get more actual information, not Dr. Google. Right? Here's where here's here's a pamphlet for this. And she's probably the person who's going to read through all that. Now, his wife Kathy will probably just be like, oh my God, just do whatever. Fix my dog.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

Right. And so you start to learn the personalities and how I need to adapt my communication style so that what I say gets heard. Because I think that's a lot of it. We really blame the other person. Well, they didn't hear me. Were you communicating it in a way that they can hear it? I'm a very, I'm a D on the disc profile. I'm a very direct communicator. So if you tell me something, you better tell it to me straight up. I don't want you to dance around the, you know, bush about it. I need to know right now what am I looking at and what am I dealing with? And then I can make make a um an educated decision on that. But I'm not gonna read. You give me a spreadsheet, I'm not gonna look at it. And so I think communication is one of those, they call it a soft skill, but it's not. It's the hardest thing that we do. We are never taught it in school. We're taught to read and we're taught to write, but we're not taught how to communicate and how to de-escalate situations and how to, you know, what's that? Uh, how to make friends and influence people? It's a great book. It's a great book. And I read it and my oldest was like, Mom, you don't need to make friends. I'm like, that's not what this is about. This is about how to communicate with people and get them to hear what you have to say. We might all be saying the same things, but if we're not getting our message across, it's not gonna do any good. So I think team meetings are important to talk about communication. You don't need to be talking about at team meetings, you don't need to be talking about, oh, this is our new blood analyzer and this is how you use it, or oh, we're gonna change this policy. All of that stuff can be used for Slack. Team meetings should be for culture building, working on communication, how to have direct communication with each other, with our clients, and things like that. But you have to put time into it. And if you're not gonna put time into it, then don't get mad when you have entitled clients, when you have angry clients, when you have team members who are leaving because you didn't want to put the time into it. I mean, uh, we go to conferences and I send my CSRs and my texts. They want to, my texts want to go to all the, you know, new dental stuff. And no, I'm gonna teach you, you know, we're gonna go in to that one class that is how to have a difficult communication. So it's important to put time and energy into it. And there are so many resources out there. Anything by Brene Brown. You know, uh with my leaders, we read Dare to Lead and we read it together, you know, and so it talks about communication and being empathetic. So I think that you can do stuff like that with your team, but as an owner, you have to participate and you have to make it a priority.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yes, Mark. I raised my hand, so I have a comment.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

I never raise my hand, just go.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

I know. So dental practices have a morning huddle, or the good ones do. It's kind of like being in a trade show where you'll see like care credit, and everybody that works at care credits in a in a circle, and they're talking about who they're gonna see and what their expectations are, or the number of people they're gonna talk to. In a dental practice, it's here's everybody that's coming in today. Here's what we're doing, here's the advanced dentistry we're doing, here's what we need to look out for, here's somebody whose insurance we may not take, et cetera, et cetera. The problem is, I don't think veterinary hospitals do this enough. What they could do is here are the three people that could derail our day today that are coming in with their animals. The animals aren't going to derail it, the people are. Who are the best communicators for that individual and put them with them? Whether it's front desk CSR people, is it the right tech? Is it even the right assistant? Maybe they have a relationship with the assistant and not with anybody else. And what can make that appointment go smoother during the day? So those three patient encounters are not in fodder for a podcast. But I I think it would pay tremendous dividends just to, like you said, you know, I'm a C, pair somebody up with that's a C. Yeah. If that's the right communication style. Maybe somebody's very adaptable and they can talk to anybody. I mean, my brother who worked at the FBI used to he was an interviewer. They brought him into the room because he could talk to anybody. He was a bartender before he went in the FBI while he was getting a couple master's degrees. But he could talk to anybody, still can. So if there's somebody at your hospital that's like that, put them in the room. Have them discuss pricing, have them discuss care. You know, to the nature of their abilities, but I think it would just do a great service for the hospital during the day. And and this is every day. Every day you're open, have a patient huddle and do those discussions. The the resort I used to go to in the Caribbean every year, they would have a morning meeting. Here are the guests that are coming. These people have been here 15. If anybody, you know, is off but want to come in and say on their day, you know, their day off, come in and say hi, and we're so glad you're here. I mean, people used to come in in their street clothes to see us because we went there every year. And we're like, how do you know we were going to be here? Oh, they talked about you yesterday morning. I'm like, oh my God, isn't that so nice?

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Even if we don't have huddles, you can put alerts on client and patient accounts. So this is we, you're right, Mark, we do not huddle enough. That is a huge issue. But I could say, oh, Mark's a client of mine. You know what? He loves Dr. Britney. We're always going to put him with Dr. Britney, unless it's an emergency, obviously. But we know that he and Dr. Brittany communicate really well together. I am never going to put him with Dr. Kim because Dr. Kim is a very direct communicator and she will, you know, kind of turn him off. So we do that where we we put alerts in what technicians do good with what pets, what technicians and doctors do good with what clients. We have some of those difficult clients who are not bad people, but just are high energy. We have one, and I I'm not gonna say I love her, but she's something else. Dr. Kim and I are always the ones who go in with her. And that's just easier for everybody. We communicate well with her, she listens to what we have to say. We can work around whatever issues she's having at the moment, you know, whether she's medicated or not, whether she brings her crystals with her or not. I mean, it's it's something else. But make alerts on those clients and patient notes so that you know who they do better with. And whenever we set up as a as a CSR, whenever we set up an appointment, do you have a doctor that you prefer? We'll do our best, but do you have a doctor you prefer? Because some of them, right, can communicate with anybody, some of them really like a specific doctor. Fantastic. So that's kind of a a quick way that you can meet those needs to a certain extent. A huddle is better. A huddle is always better.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Awesome. Mark, on the flip of that though, so we talked about earlier the patient that she thought that she had to um communicate harshly to get her way. Some people just think that they need to, they can get a better deal if they always are difficult or ask for discounts. When you're advising practices, what are some of the difficulties or hidden dangers of if you default to discounting every time someone asks for uh or fights their bills or discount creep that can affect their whole financials? Discount equals oi.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

That should be a t-shirt that you wear.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

It's we had I had a client that I looked at their financial statements on my first meeting with them, and they had$300,000 in discretionary discounts. And it was listed on their financial statements. They recorded the full fee, but then showed the discount. And I said, What is this? And like, well, every doctor gets to discount how they feel the charges should go. So if the technician puts in the correct charge, the doctor can use their discretionary discount. I said, is this like senior discounts and veterans discounts? And and they said, no, this is over and above that. And I said, Oh my golly.$300,000 is real dollars. That's staff raises, new equipment, all paid for in cash. It's it's just vaporized. So I I think, you know, if it's warrant, a discount is warranted and it should be a policy, like Jenny would say, should have a hospital-wide policy and that everybody knows the policy. And doctors, if they feel they need to have a discount, they should have a set amount of discounts. It's like if they get$2,500 worth of you know, CE and dues, et cetera, a year, why wouldn't they get a set amount of discounts that are discretionary? But if it was unlimited, it's kind of the willy-nilly method and it's a free-for-all for the hospital. And I think it becomes so random that, you know, I think it may dishearten the staff. Oh my God, they're this person got a$2,000 discount, and maybe that's why we're not getting raises this year, or why can't we go to Western or you know, VMX because the patients are stealing our conference fees. So don't do it. Manage it. Don't have generic discounts, have a number of discounts under the sun. I I worked at a car wash when I got out of college because it was fun. A friend of mine worked there and they had free birthday washes, they had free senior washes, they had I mean, but they kept track of everything. Every single discount had a code, every type of discount, and they were looked at. Somebody would analyze the discounts, like, oh my God, I can't believe they're giving this discount. Let's coach them up so that they're not giving that discount. Turned out every one employee was giving every one of his friends a birthday wash. So some people had 52 birthdays a year.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yes, it was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

It's like the opposite of the leapier birthday.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Yes. So I think I think that a policy would help manage client expectations if you were going to give it. This is a one-time thing. It's not unlimited. We're not going to do this every every visit. We may do the it because of this and have it approved if it has to be by the practice manager and the veterinarian and the owner if if it's substantial. But just the random discount policy is just a wayward, you know, mode of operation for the hospital.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

I'm going to jump into a I'm going to keep you on your toes, Jenny. You ready? Bring it. All right. So we've seen this in the restaurant industry a lot where they sometimes have to bend over backwards because they're worried about Google reviews. Do social media reviews change how you deal or you've had to handle difficult clients at all?

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Not at all. And here's how I handle Google reviews. I respond to every single one of them personally. I know that there are bots out there, AI, you know, all these different things that can handle them. I handle each one of them individually. The nasty reviews that are on there, and we have some. I mean, I if somebody is a five-star place, then they either haven't been in business long enough or somebody's lying about something. Like they're but I think that when somebody leaves me a support review, and we you can go on my website and read them. I will say half of them still use us but couldn't figure out how to take down their negative reviews. But I will put on there, I really wish you had brought this to our attention. Dr. George and Jenny tried to reach out to you. You did refuse to answer. So if they're really nasty, I'll hit them right there. And I don't have any qualms about it. That's fine. What I have found as we have built up our clientele and and you know, really tried to be part of the community is when there is a bad review, if it's like on, you know, the town page of Deerfield and somebody says, You wouldn't shouldn't go to Deerfield Vent, they killed my dog. I don't have to say anything because my clients take care of it for me. Oh my God, I can't believe you would say that. I love Dr. George, blah, blah, blah. But I think in this, in this time, my opinion, and I understand that we take negative feedback horribly, right? It's very personal. You know, Mark, you were talking earlier about it takes 20 minutes to get your brain back in, you know, into sync when somebody says something negative. I think it's longer than that because that one client is who you take home with you. That's the one client that you go home and I'm gonna yell at my kids because I'm in a bad mood because Mark yelled at me today, and I took it and I'm so angry with myself. And so I think it lasts even longer. Those negative reviews online have the ability to do that if you allow it. I think that there's something to speaking to your good clients and saying, hey, can you leave me a positive review? And your good clients will. And they'll leave them on Yelp, on Google, on Facebook, all of these places for you. So one, you can ask for that. But I think that if we ignore the comments and just let them go, yeah, they're all gonna build up on each other. So I try I personally, that's one of my jobs as a practice manager is I respond to every single one of them and I get alerts every time there's a new Google response and I or new Google review, and I'll respond to it. But I respond to it in a very I try and respond to it in a very professional way. But my other thought process is if a nasty client or somebody who my favorite is the people who give you bad reviews and they've never even used you, I'm like, how is that even? How can you, you don't even know, you know, well, I'm not gonna go there because I didn't like their prices and you shouldn't go there either. Okay. Anyone who's gonna listen to that person, I don't really want as a client, anyways. And I think you have to change your perspective around that and say, does this one nasty person and anybody who wants to listen to that nasty person, I don't like, I don't want them. Am I really gonna let them affect us? I don't want them. So pay attention to the good. And I'm not saying ignore the negative. If you're hearing the same comment over and over and over again that's negative, then maybe right, you need to start looking at what are how how are we doing this? What can we do to change this, how this is perceived? But if you're living your life walking on eggshells, worried about what everybody else is going to say about you, that's a pretty rough way to live. And um you have to let that stuff go. And you have to, you know, reach out to your good clients and say, hey, you know, every time there's a bad review, maybe you have three good clients that you can reach out to and say, hey, you know, call them. Do you mind leaving a review? We just got nailed. This person is upset. I can't I talk to Google and they won't review or won't remove it, you know. I I have a I have a nasty review on ours and they've not they're not a they use Deerfield Vet Clinic in Massachusetts and it's on ours. But they live in New Hampshire, but because of the border, so Google wouldn't re remove it because they're like, no, no, it's clearly for you. I'm like, they live two hours away. It's not, but you just can't let that stuff get you down. Respond to it, let it go. If you need to make changes in how you do something, do that. But don't live your life worried about what other people are gonna think in general.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Well, we also get held to a perfection standard, which is very hard to live up to. Try as we may.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

It's impossible, actually. It is impossible. You will never be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

I mean, when I was a college gymnast, I saw a 10. Somebody that did a 10 performance, and I'm like, yeah, they got a 10, but I saw something. It wasn't a 10. 995? You're picking it apart.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

I was better.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

No. But it's very hard to live up to.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

Very, very hard to live up to. Pick up on something Jenny said there, um, Mark, for you, is there a mindset shift that practices need to make from we can't lose anyone to we choose who we serve?

SPEAKER_00 46:38

I think the people that you're lying awake at night worrying about tomorrow or the previous day, what transpired, I think those are the people that you should probably create a list and maybe in your morning huddle or afternoon huddle or a Friday night huddle somewhere else for dinner. Rate them and see, you know what, would your workday or life go better if they weren't here and they were somebody else's issue? And more often than not, I I I think if you were if you got rid of the five clients that gave you heartburn and that nobody wanted to see, and that people were secretly just wishing that they wouldn't come, that they would cancel their appointment, those are the people that probably should be on the naughty list and go to somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

I have a friend who worked at a practice that their practice owner every Christmas would say, I want you all to give me a name. That you cringe when you see them call, that you don't want to, you know, and inevitably it would be like the same people, right? Your receptionists don't like the same people your texts don't like, which are the same people your doctors don't like. And the owner would call and say, Hey, we have to let you go. You have made it too difficult. Nobody wants to pick up the phone when you call. And he would be very now, I don't know that that needs to happen. But that's what he did every Christmas was he would ask pull his team and get rid of one or two clients that did exactly that, Mark. That they were lying awake going, Oh God, Mrs. Smith is coming in tomorrow. So an idea.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

Well, everybody says that work should be fun. And maybe it's become maybe it's become less fun, and that would make it swing the other way.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

All right. Lots of good information this episode on how to deal with difficult clients. Um also I loved in the beginning, Jenny, a difficult client that's going through something difficult versus an entitled client that's just treating everyone poorly. Um, very big for practice managers. Mark, having those set policies of hey, these are things we'll accept slash things that we won't, and having that right in and out there for practice management for veteran practices to follow, training your staff on that, having those morning huddles. And so I'm gonna ask you both a final question, and it's an A or B. You can choose either one. So we're having a little we're we're making work fun today, Mark. Um I'm ready. What's the most important boundary you've learned to set with clients and then or what's the one mistake practices make that helps attract the wrong clients? So Mark or Jenny, I will let you who wants to jump in first.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

Any client who threatens a team member is gone immediately. Immediately. Any client who harasses a female team member is gone immediately. Any I would say that that applies also to salespeople who come in. If they give your team and I am saying this in a female predominant industry, as a female who has worked, you know, that one, that one instance that I talked about earlier, the gross client, that is not the only time that I've had bosses that treated me, like give you the heebie jeebies. I don't want my team to ever feel unsafe or uncomfortable at work in that way. No woman should have to feel afraid to walk out to their car at night. So any client that ever threatens or harasses team members, gone immediately. And that is a boundary that I, if you're not doing that and you're allowing it, you might as well just start putting money aside for a lawsuit because it's going to come back to get you at some point.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Well, don't you have a Viking working there that could handle that?

SPEAKER_02 50:31

You know, the funny thing is when somebody gets really bad, they do not go to my husband. They go to me. And I have put myself in very dangerous situations firing men that are much bigger than me. And like one time I was like, this guy might actually hit me. Like he was so angry. But, and I'm like, well, my husband's around someplace. But no, they will, I will definitely be far, I am the protector of the group. He just looks scary. Like sometimes, sometimes I'll be like, Can you just don't, you don't have to say anything. Just stand here and be all big and muscly. Just stand there. But no, for the most part, that's my job.

SPEAKER_03 51:13

So, Mark, what's the one mistake practices wouldn't, and Jenny, that was all great, and I 100% agree. Zero tolerance across all of your trees. Not even, well, your vet, yeah, 100% ours. That that stuff doesn't fly. But um Mark, what's the one mistake that you see practices make that may compound this problem or that they could put in place to stop um some of these declines?

SPEAKER_00 51:36

I don't know if an a good intake process would cure this. I think you have to finally have people go through your first exam process or first intake process, and you don't really learn about them until meeting them once or more. So it's not a set of questions that you can ask people. I mean, have you how many veterinarians have you been to in the past three years? If they say six, is that an indicator that maybe maybe they're not going to listen to us or pay us or be nice to us? I don't I don't think you can determine that.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

They might also lie.

unknown 52:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Well, see, that's grounds as well. We recently had an interaction with one of our own clients where we didn't like the answers they were giving to me and staff. They were all different and they were blaming the staff for things that wasn't their fault and wasn't true. So they were immediately let go, which was a surprise to them. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

Awesome. All right. So thank you, Mark and Jenny. Again, we talked about some of the key takeaways from here. Having those difficult conversations early to set the how the relationship's gonna go, making sure that your teams feel supported, that you have those policies in there, that you don't let discount creep put$300,000 off your books. Um again, if you're listening to this, reach out to Mark, reach out to Jenny. Um, you can find us on socials, you can find us on the website if you have any other questions. But also the next episode, I'm gonna do a little preview. We have a lawyer coming on that only practices, not only, but specializes with dogs. So we'll have a dog lawyer on. So get ready for that, everybody. And have a great rest of your week. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Veterinary Survival Show. If you have any questions for Mark or want to learn more about how LGA supports veterinary practices, visit our website at lga.cpa. Again, that's lga.cpa.