Abby and Kellee explore making mistakes in the therapy room, and the shame that becomes very alive and present for therapists. They share their own stories of mistakes with clients, the shame they felt, and ways they have learned to regulated through these moments. They also include an audio clip from a professor at a local university who shares his own mistake as an intern therapist and the shame that followed. Abby and Kellee use an IPNB lens to offer compassion to themselves and all therapists regarding the responses to clients that turn into mistakes.
Topics Touched on:
Bonnie Badenoch: https://www.nurturingtheheart.com
Timothy Wienecke: https://empoweredchangece.com/contact-me/
The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows: https://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Obscure-Sorrows-John-Koenig/dp/1501153641
Practicing Mindfulness: https://www.amazon.com/Practicing-Mindfulness-Essential-Meditations-Everyday/dp/1641521716
Richard Powers: http://www.richardpowers.net
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Topics Touched on:
Abby and Kellee explore healing others and having to hold boundaries with our own families and friends. They express the grief that can be present when healers see their own family or friends suffering but needing to maintain the boundary of not becoming their healer. They also hold the relief that may come for some knowing they cannot be the healer for their friends our family. Abby and Kellee share the difficulty of separating our therapist part from our friend and/or family member part.
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Self-disclosure. What is it? When do we use it? When is it helpful? When can it be harmful? Abby and Kellee discuss the importance of awareness around the intention of the therapist’s disclosure. They ask when does self-disclosure create expansion and joining for the therapist and client? Kellee and Abby give examples of when disclosure has been helpful or not helpful for them as clients, and their own clients.
Topics Touched on:
The Development of a Therapist. Healing Others. Healing Self: Louis Cozolino- https://www.amazon.com/Development-Therapist-Healing-Others-Self/dp/0393713954
A Handful of Quiet: Happiness in Four Pebbles:
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/a-handful-of-quiet-happiness-in-four-pebbles_thch-nht-hnh/877515/item/10429135/?gclid=CjwKCAjwo8-SBhAlEiwAopc9W705o0X71FlTBvaTkQJSrS-Iwo6_kkvnqCvL_6j-wuBATDHNGNkvExoCeeoQAvD_BwE#idiq=10429135&edition=7306409
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Have you ever had that client that “talks at you,” or noticed you yourself “talking at the client?” Do you ever wonder if words in the therapy room may not be the most optimal for healing? Abby and Kellee spend this episode exploring how “talking”, a left brain skill, must be used intentionally to heal our clients.
Topics Touched on:
World Association of Sandtray Therapy Professionals (WASP): https://worldsandtherapy.com
Lorraine Freedle: http://lorrainefreedle.com/sandplay-therapy/
Dan Siegel: https://drdansiegel.com
Bonnie Badenoch: https://www.nurturingtheheart.com
The Development of a Therapist. Healing Others. Healing Self: Louis Cozolino-https://www.amazon.com/Development-Therapist-Healing-Others-Self/dp/0393713954
Marshall Lyles: https://www.marshalllyles.com
Paris Goodyear-Brown: https://www.parisgoodyearbrown.com
Iain McGilchrist: https://www.amazon.com/Matter-Things-Brains-Delusions-Unmaking-ebook/dp/B09KY5B3QL
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Get ready to talk about money! How do we decide our rates? Abby and Kellee explore their personal relationship with money, and how this impacts their relationship with money as private practice owners. While Kellee and Abby focus this episode on those who have private practices the episode encourages all therapists to become aware of their own relationship with money, and how this lives inside their bodies, their epigenetic story.
Topics Touched on:
Robyn Mourning: https://www.ominiralabs.com
Dr. Bukky: https://myrelationshiphq.com
Talking about Race with Dr. Bukky Kolawole: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc8b0I36WeQ&t=2003s
Abby’s contact for EMDR consultation:
abby@beandbelongcounseling.org
Kellee’s contact for EMDR consultation: https://anchorcounselingco.com
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What’s a therapist to do when they feel uninspired? Abby and Kellee use the parallel process of the podcast and being a therapist as they explore the experience of being uninspired. How do we show up for clients when we feel uninspired? Can we trust in our clients’ own process that they will come to therapy inspired and our role is to simply follow them, be with them?
Topics Touched on:
Jaak Panksepp: https://www.asdn.org/wp-content/uploads/1-Motivated-Brain-Excerpt-pgs.pdf
John O'Donohue: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/39025796-walking-in-wonder
Marshall Lyles: https://www.marshalllyles.com
Robyn Gobbel: https://robyngobbel.com
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Abby and Kellee touch on grief, and the ways it shows up for therapists in the field. They share the need to welcome grief again and again; it cannot be box that is just “checked off.” Abby and Kellee explore ways to set boundaries as therapists navigate the hard work they do in this field.
Topics Touched on:
Michael Pollan- https://michaelpollan.com
Kate Bowler- https://katebowler.com
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Abby and Kellee welcome veteran and new listeners to season 3! They share hopes for season 3, and then move into using the parallel process of welcoming clients into our space for the first time, third time, or 100th time. They challenge listeners to be reflective on how listeners show up for their clients when welcoming them for an intake, after a brief pause, after a rupture, after a planned break, and many more examples
Topics Touched on:
Circle of Security: https://www.circleofsecurityinternational.com
Upcoming Coffee and Chat (2.10.22 6pmMST)
Pandemic Parenting: The Alliteration We Didn’t Ask For
Link to purchase ($11) on the website
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Abby and Kellee say goodbye to season two this episode. As they reflect on their own process, they move into exploring process over content within the therapy space. Why would we want to focus more on process over content? What cues let you know you or the client are avoiding processing? How do we move clients into processing when they are heavily guarded?
Topics Touched on:
The Keep Going Song- The Bengons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs-ju_L9pEQ
Epigenetics: Hope and Attachment: https://wholetherapistinstitute.com/store/
Circle of Security: https://www.circleofsecurityinternational.com
IG: Teletherapist.network: https://teletherapistnetwork.com
Rainer Maria Rilke's Letters to a Young Poet:
https://www.amazon.com/Letters-Young-Rainer-Maria-Rilke/dp/0393310396
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Abby and Kellee are beginning to wrap up season two and find themselves recording in a rather silly mood. If you are looking for lightness, laughter, and vulnerability join Abby and Kellee as they explore what their careers would be if they weren’t therapists. Of course, they tie in how this relates to our own security and connectedness to our therapist identity.
Topics Touched on:
Rick Hanson- Buddha's Brain: The Practical Neuroscience of Happiness, Love, and Wisdom: https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/buddhas-brain-the-practical-neuroscience-of-happiness-love-and-wisdom_daniel-j-siegel_rick-hanson/
Frank Wilczek: https://physics.mit.edu/faculty/frank-wilczek/
Dr. Dan Siegel- https://www.attachment-and-trauma-treatment-centre-for-healing.com/blogs/understanding-and-working-with-the-window-of-tolerance
Coffee and Chat: Friend or Foe? Exploring Our Own Attachment Sh*t In The Therapy room:https://wholetherapistinstitute.com/store/
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Get ready to ground into this episode as Kellee and Abby explore dissociation. They talk about dissociations being on a continuum, a natural, and normal part of all our lives. They also discuss the brilliance in the body dissociating after trauma and encourage therapist to lean it not run away. Abby and Kellee end the episode offering basic strategies therapists can use to support clients with dissociation in and outside of session.
Topics Touched on:
Janina Fisher: https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/healing-the-fragmented-selves-of-trauma-survivors-overcoming-internal-self-alienation_janina-fisher/13534321/?resultid=a934f9b1-41d6-4aab-9c3d-a871b62be645#edition=13201579&idiq=26946741
Bonnie Badenoch: https://www.nurturingtheheart.com
Dr. Dan Siegel- https://www.attachment-and-trauma-treatment-centre-for-healing.com/blogs/understanding-and-working-with-the-window-of-tolerance
Coffee and Chat: Friend or Foe? Exploring Our Own Attachment Sh*t In The Therapy room:
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Abby and Kellee talk about curiosity in the therapy room from an IPNB perspective. They explore how compassionate and respectful curiosity looks and feels different in the therapy space versus curiosity where we have an agenda; a path we are wanting to follow. Abby and Kellee go on to discuss how we must know we don’t know something to truly be curious with our clients in the therapy space.
Topics Touched on:
Yalom: https://www.yalom.com
Hold Me Tight: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/2153780.Hold_Me_Tight
Circle of Security: https://www.circleofsecurityinternational.com
Bonnie Badenoch: https://www.nurturingtheheart.com
Dr. Dan Siegle- https://www.attachment-and-trauma-treatment-centre-for-healing.com/blogs/understanding-and-working-with-the-window-of-tolerance
Coffee and Chat: Friend or Foe? Exploring Our Own Attachment Sh*t In The Therapy room:https://wholetherapistinstitute.com/store/
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Have you ever found yourself in a season reaching too far, too fast, too soon regarding a clinical skill or training? Have you worked in a setting where there wasn’t space for a learning curve, or tolerable doses of new clinical skills? Using a plant analogy Abby and Kellee explore the impact of reaching too far, too fast, too soon with trainings, with clients, and with supervisees
Topics Touched on:
Coffee and Chat: Friend or Foe? Exploring Our Own Attachment Sh*t In The Therapy room:https://wholetherapistinstitute.com/store/
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Abby and Kellee explore differentiation. How do we begin to enter our client’s pain without making it our own? They spend time talking about how growth happens at the edge (the space between). They share times they have made a client’s pain their own and discuss strategies to maintain differentiation.
Topics Touched on:
If Women Rose Rooted- Sharon Blackie: https://www.amazon.com/If-Women-Rose-Rooted-Celtic-ebook/dp/B01AKBFTMW
Circle of Security: https://www.circleofsecurityinternational.com
Cole Arthur Riley: https://www.instagram.com/blackliturgies/?hl=en
Bonnie Badenoch: https://www.nurturingtheheart.com
Dr. Dan Siegle- https://www.attachment-and-trauma-treatment-centre-for-healing.com/blogs/understanding-and-working-with-the-window-of-tolerance
Elephant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWhyGI7q8Xk
Coffee and Chat: Friend or Foe? Exploring Our Own Attachment Sh*t In The Therapy room: https://wholetherapistinstitute.com/store/
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Have you found yourself feeling rejected by a client, or attempting to rattle off multiple solutions for them? Abby and Kellee explore how clients who cannot accept care and trust in the therapy space may be showing you a wise part of themselves, a younger part that developed block trust out of childhood maltreatment. They discuss what this can look like with adults and child clients, what it might feel like for the therapist, and how easily the therapist can recreate attachment ruptures from early on by falling into blocked care.
Topics Touched on:
The Neurobiology of Attachment-Focused Therapy- Jonathan Baylin and Daniel A. Hughes: https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393711042
Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy: https://ddpnetwork.org/about-ddp/dyadic-developmental-psychotherapy/
Louis Cozolino: https://mindgains.org/resources/advisory-board/louis-cozolino-ph-d/
Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT): https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/dialectical-behavior-therapy
Dr. Dan Siegle- https://www.attachment-and-trauma-treatment-centre-for-healing.com/blogs/understanding-and-working-with-the-window-of-tolerance
Coffee and Chat: Friend or Foe? Exploring Our Own Attachment Sh*t In The Therapy room: https://wholetherapistinstitute.com/store/
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Are you listening to your body? Do you know when you need rest? What narratives are you holding about who you are or your worth when you rest? Abby and Kellee explore the lack of internalization that many of us have around rest.
Topics Touched on:
Coffee and Chat: Friend or Foe? Exploring Our Own Attachment Sh*t In The Therapy room: https://wholetherapistinstitute.com/store/
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We only exist and have a beginning because of cooperation. Abby and Kellee reflect on the readings, podcasts, and trainings they have done over the last year and how they all discuss survival being dependent on cooperation. They stress the importance of creating community in our field, and how we each must surround ourselves with support as we support others.
Topics Touched on:
Suzanne Simard: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/602589/finding-the-mother-tree-by-suzanne-simard/
Dan Siegel: https://www.mindsightinstitute.com
Trauma Stewardship: https://traumastewardship.com/about-the-authors/
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How do we maintain connection even in the midst of being fired? Abby and Kellee spend time talking about how important it is to become even more relational when we therapists are in the midst of being fired. They explore the many ways therapists can spiral into negative self-talk and shame when they are fired by a client. Self-reflection is brought in, and they talk about our therapist part, our human part, and how we honor both
Topics Touched on:
Cloe Madanes- https://cloemadanes.com
Lisa Dion- https://lisa-dion.com
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“My client said they wanted to do deep trauma work, and then they never returned.” Does this sound like an experience you’ve had? Abby and Kellee discuss modalities and interventions like: EMDR, parts work, expressive therapies, etc. and how to use these to titrate work with clients who want to process trauma. Even when clients push for fast and intense work Abby and Kellee discuss therapists’ responsibility to assess what part(s) of the client is asking this (protector part?), and what part(s) truly need the titration to heal. They explore the benefits of titrating for both the therapist and the client.
Topics Touched on:
The Development of a Therapist. Healing Others. Healing Self: Louis Cozolino:https://www.amazon.com/Development-Therapist-Healing-Others-Self/dp/0393713954
Ana Gomez: https://www.anagomez.org
Marshall Lyles: https://www.marshalllyles.com
Debra Wesselmann & Dr. Ann Potter P-A-C EMDR Model
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Abby and Kellee have the pleasure of interviewing Bridgette Black, licensed esthetician, and celebrity/professional makeup artist. Listeners will feel the authenticity and warmth come through their speakers in this episode with Bridgette as she explores many of the layers that come with being an entrepreneur. While Bridgette does not identify as a healer or therapist it is clear in this episode, she encompasses so many of the identities Abby and Kellee ask listeners to consider bringing into the therapy space to support clients’ healing.
Topics Touched on:
Bridgette Black- https://www.bridgetteblack.com
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Are you an in-home therapist, school-based therapist, a therapist in a correctional facility, or a therapist with your own office space? Abby and Kellee attempt to explore all the spaces a therapist practices in, and then discuss how the energy you bring into this space impacts clients. They discuss things from coffee mugs to couches that are brought into our work with clients, and how these objects may offer us delight in whatever space we are in, and this in turns provides delight to our clients.
Topics Touched on:
Robyn Gobbel- https://robyngobbel.com
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What percentage do you think you are talking in sessions with clients? Abby and Kellee explore how important and needed silence is for our clients. Abby and Kellee touch on the difference between being silent and present versus being silent and disconnected. They also give tips to help therapists practice using silence in sessions as well as phrases to use with clients so clients don’t feel dropped.
Topics Touched on:
Rumi- https://www.britannica.com/biography/Rumi
Erica Bonham- https://avoscounseling.com/about-menu/about/
EMDR Tool Box- https://www.springerpub.com/emdr-toolbox-9780826172556.html
Michael Hamm: https://www.integrativebodyworkeducation.com
Deb Dana: https://www.thescienceofpsychotherapy.com/deb-dana/
Louis Cozolino- https://mindgains.org/resources/advisory-board/louis-cozolino-ph-d/
Lisa Dion- https://lisa-dion.com
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Topics Touched on:
Abby and Kellee touch on reflective functioning and why this is so important for us to assess and support our clients around, but also why it is imperative for us as therapists to have the capacity to do so as well. They share two reflective functioning interventions during the episode, and how and why to utilize it with clients. Abby and Kellee discuss therapists not being able to increase clients’ mentalization if they do not possess this ability themselves and call for therapists to do their own deep work.
Peter Fonagy- https://www.ucl.ac.uk/psychoanalysis/research/reflective-functioning-questionnaire-rfq
Louis Cozolino- https://mindgains.org/resources/advisory-board/louis-cozolino-ph-d/
Peter Levine- https://www.somaticexperiencing.com
Lisa Dion- https://lisa-dion.com
Ana Gomez- https://www.anagomez.org
Robyn Gobbel- https://robyngobbel.com
Circle of Security: https://www.circleofsecurityinternational.com/members/cosp-videos-and-handouts/
Dan Siegel: https://www.attachment-and-trauma-treatment-centre-for-healing.com/blogs/understanding-and-working-with-the-window-of-tolerance
Marshall Lyles: https://www.marshalllyles.com
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Abby and Kellee explore how they have each evolved and transitioned between theoretical orientations. They discuss how shame can show up when we find a new orientation that brings deeper healing than we have previously provided. Abby and Kellee use IPNB to bring in compassion as they normalize this experience around growing up the field. They conclude that no matter the orientation you use as long you are grounded in it safety will be present, and treatment can begin.
Topics Touched on:
Marshall Lyles- https://www.marshalllyles.com
Anna Gomez- https://www.anagomez.org
Robyn Gobbel- https://robyngobbel.com
Dr. Stephen Porges: https://www.stephenporges.com
Dr. Chaitra Wirta-Leiker: https://www.growbeyondwords.com
Debra Wesselmann & Dr. Ann Potter P-A-C EMDR Model
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Abby and Kellee explore relationships in the therapy room, drawing inspiration from an unlikely pair in the documentary "My Octopus Teacher". They use the film to reflect on the many parallels of the client-therapist relationship: the struggle with our own agenda, when to take charge, when to sit back, how we all truly have everything within us to heal, and most importantly, how relationships are developed through a felt sense of safety (not with words) in the therapy room.
Topics Touched on:
My Octopus Teacher- https://www.netflix.com/title/81045007
Mateo’s Salsa-https://mateossalsa.com
The Development of a Therapist. Healing Others. Healing Self: Louis Cozolino- https://www.amazon.com/Development-Therapist-Healing-Others-Self/dp/0393713954
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Therapists Make Mistakes: Exploring Shame and Compassion
38:52
The Healer's Dilemma: Holding Boundaries with Family and Friends
14:45
Monitoring Self-Disclosure in the Therapy Space
28:34
Talking Heads: Using Talking Intentionally in the Therapy Space
19:40
The Financial Dilemma: A Therapist Journey
24:26
The Uninspired Therapist
25:42
Grief. Not Just a One Time Topic
23:09
Season THREE: Welcoming Clients Back
19:53
Process Over Content
26:52
Daydreaming About a New Career
15:57
Leaning into Dissociation
28:13
Curiosity in the Therapy Space
25:37
Growing Clinical Self-Confidence
16:46
Maintaining Differentiation with Our Clients
24:10
Meeting Blocked Trust with Care and Connection
18:52
Therapists, Resting Is HARD
19:50
Therapists unite! Cooperation vs. Competition
22:15
When the Therapist Gets Fired
27:11
Titrating Trauma
20:09
Entrepreneurship: An Interview with Bridgette Black
41:52
The Energetic Powers of the Couch
19:12
Silence in Session with Clients
22:13
BONUS EPISODE: What is Reflective Functioning?
20:22
Growing Up in the Field
21:47
Navigating the Therapeutic Relationship
26:22