The Past, the Promise, the Presidency

Presidential Crises, Episode VII: The Berlin Wall & The Soviet Fall

November 18, 2021 SMU Center for Presidential History Season 2 Episode 36
Presidential Crises, Episode VII: The Berlin Wall & The Soviet Fall
The Past, the Promise, the Presidency
Chapters
2:39
Interview 1 - Jeff
3:12
What is the Cold War?
6:22
Q: How are other global actors contributing to the end of the Cold War?
8:50
Q: How did President Bush respond to Tianenmen Square?
10:15
How did other powers respond to Tianenmen Square, particularly from the Communist bloc?
10:53
A: East Germans almost do a Tienenmen Square
13:21
Q: How does all this culminate in the fall of the Berlin Wall?
21:46
A: Personal anecdote about 1991 & driving to college
22:45
Q: How much was the office of the president responsible for the Berlin Wall/its aftermath?
23:10
A: I like Bush, and he made a great call
24:14
Interview 2 - Mary
24:26
Q: Can you introduce yourself?
24:57
Q: What are the important contexts to know about the end of the Cold War?
27:15
A: Learning history from the middle
28:15
Q: So what were the sparks that set the powder keg alight?
34:37
What happens in the aftermath of the wall's fall?
36:09
Q: So, how do leaders avoid all these extremely violent possibilities?
36:24
A: Start with the Soviet Union
38:13
A: This is where Bush, Kohl, and Thatcher come in -- what is a post-Cold War order going to look like?
38:44
Q: So what new order did the pursue, and how did that fit with their national strategies?
39:36
A: More radical visions for post-Cold War order, including total pacifism
39:51
A: Debates over German unification and/versus NATO
40:59
Q: Why does the NATO agreement become controversial? What's that scandal about?
45:24
Q: It seems like this crisis shapes our contemporary moment
47:27
End
48:06
Discussion
48:06
Lindsay Q: What's your takeaway?
48:17
A: You'd be a bad mathematician
48:30
A: Work focuses on different scales
49:38
Lindsay: Unique perspectives-- that's why historians who work on the same stuff have jobs
51:22
Linday: Gets to second point : the important nuances of language, and how things can change in a second
51:45
Jeff: The odds were against it
52:06
Lindsay: Bureaucracy is boring til it's not
52:21
Lindsay: No one expected the crisis to happen
52:42
Jeff: Historical irony / archival memo about the problem of travel restrictions
53:36
Jeff: Cuban Missile Crisis -- this was all much scarier than we thought/knew it to be
More Info
The Past, the Promise, the Presidency
Presidential Crises, Episode VII: The Berlin Wall & The Soviet Fall
Nov 18, 2021 Season 2 Episode 36
SMU Center for Presidential History

This week's crisis could have ended with the world in a giant blaze of nuclear flame, but it didn't. In fact, it's an example of how a crisis can be handled so effectively, that most people don't even remember it as a crisis. This week, we are talking about the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of the Cold War. 

It's November, 1989. Reagan famously delivered his "tear down this wall" speech in 1987, but West and East Berlin are as divided as ever. In the summer of 1989, Chinese military forces had mowed down peaceful protesters in Tiananmen Square. Horrified by the images of violence, American leaders, and George H. W. Bush in particular, were eager to avoid provoking a similar crackdown in Eastern Europe. 

The stakes couldn't have been higher. Both sides were armed with enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world many times over, and they had itchy trigger fingers.

Then, unexpectedly, at a press conference, a mid-level bureaucrat ordered an enormous change in policy. He accidentally announced that residents would be allowed to leave East Germany. Word spread like wildfire. Within hours, thousands of residents were lined up at the gates to cross into West Berlin.

Why didn't this moment turn into one of violence and bloodshed? 
What were the repercussions of the collapse of a global superpower and its economic system? 
How might things have gone differently? 

To answer these questions, we have two dynamite guests. First, we have a voice that you will probably recognize. Our podcast host, Dr. Jeffrey Engle. When he’s not hosting The Past, The Promise, The Presidency, Jeff works as the founding director of the Center for Presidential History. He has also written or edited twelve books on US foreign policy, including The China Diary of George H.W. Bush: The Making of a Global President and The Fall of the Berlin Wall: The Revolutionary Legacy of 1989.

We then spoke to Dr. Mary E. Sarotte, who is the Kravis Professor of Historical Studies at Johns Hopkins University and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. She is also the expert on the expansion of NATO in Germany at the end of the Cold War and the author of Not One Inch: America, Russia, and the Making of Post-Cold War Stalemate, The Collapse: The Accidental Opening of the Berlin Wall, and 1989: The Struggle to Create Post-Cold War Europe.

Show Notes Chapter Markers

This week's crisis could have ended with the world in a giant blaze of nuclear flame, but it didn't. In fact, it's an example of how a crisis can be handled so effectively, that most people don't even remember it as a crisis. This week, we are talking about the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of the Cold War. 

It's November, 1989. Reagan famously delivered his "tear down this wall" speech in 1987, but West and East Berlin are as divided as ever. In the summer of 1989, Chinese military forces had mowed down peaceful protesters in Tiananmen Square. Horrified by the images of violence, American leaders, and George H. W. Bush in particular, were eager to avoid provoking a similar crackdown in Eastern Europe. 

The stakes couldn't have been higher. Both sides were armed with enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world many times over, and they had itchy trigger fingers.

Then, unexpectedly, at a press conference, a mid-level bureaucrat ordered an enormous change in policy. He accidentally announced that residents would be allowed to leave East Germany. Word spread like wildfire. Within hours, thousands of residents were lined up at the gates to cross into West Berlin.

Why didn't this moment turn into one of violence and bloodshed? 
What were the repercussions of the collapse of a global superpower and its economic system? 
How might things have gone differently? 

To answer these questions, we have two dynamite guests. First, we have a voice that you will probably recognize. Our podcast host, Dr. Jeffrey Engle. When he’s not hosting The Past, The Promise, The Presidency, Jeff works as the founding director of the Center for Presidential History. He has also written or edited twelve books on US foreign policy, including The China Diary of George H.W. Bush: The Making of a Global President and The Fall of the Berlin Wall: The Revolutionary Legacy of 1989.

We then spoke to Dr. Mary E. Sarotte, who is the Kravis Professor of Historical Studies at Johns Hopkins University and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. She is also the expert on the expansion of NATO in Germany at the end of the Cold War and the author of Not One Inch: America, Russia, and the Making of Post-Cold War Stalemate, The Collapse: The Accidental Opening of the Berlin Wall, and 1989: The Struggle to Create Post-Cold War Europe.

Interview 1 - Jeff
What is the Cold War?
Q: How are other global actors contributing to the end of the Cold War?
Q: How did President Bush respond to Tianenmen Square?
How did other powers respond to Tianenmen Square, particularly from the Communist bloc?
A: East Germans almost do a Tienenmen Square
Q: How does all this culminate in the fall of the Berlin Wall?
A: Personal anecdote about 1991 & driving to college
Q: How much was the office of the president responsible for the Berlin Wall/its aftermath?
A: I like Bush, and he made a great call
Interview 2 - Mary
Q: Can you introduce yourself?
Q: What are the important contexts to know about the end of the Cold War?
A: Learning history from the middle
Q: So what were the sparks that set the powder keg alight?
What happens in the aftermath of the wall's fall?
Q: So, how do leaders avoid all these extremely violent possibilities?
A: Start with the Soviet Union
A: This is where Bush, Kohl, and Thatcher come in -- what is a post-Cold War order going to look like?
Q: So what new order did the pursue, and how did that fit with their national strategies?
A: More radical visions for post-Cold War order, including total pacifism
A: Debates over German unification and/versus NATO
Q: Why does the NATO agreement become controversial? What's that scandal about?
Q: It seems like this crisis shapes our contemporary moment
Discussion
Lindsay Q: What's your takeaway?
A: You'd be a bad mathematician
A: Work focuses on different scales
Lindsay: Unique perspectives-- that's why historians who work on the same stuff have jobs
Linday: Gets to second point : the important nuances of language, and how things can change in a second
Jeff: The odds were against it
Lindsay: Bureaucracy is boring til it's not
Lindsay: No one expected the crisis to happen
Jeff: Historical irony / archival memo about the problem of travel restrictions
Jeff: Cuban Missile Crisis -- this was all much scarier than we thought/knew it to be