Pointing Toward Hope

McKenna Monson - Even when you can't feel Him, He's there.

• Wendy Bertagnolli • Episode 63

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In this episode McKenna describes her experiences with severe anxiety and panic attacks and how she has been able to grow through her trials.


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SPEAKER_01:

Hello

SPEAKER_00:

and welcome. This is the Pointing Toward Hope podcast. My name is Wendy Bertinelli and I am your host. This podcast is all about healing and hope through our Savior Jesus Christ. I'm glad you're here. My main goal in doing this is to help you know for yourself that you are not alone. Our Savior is there for you even in times that you may not feel him as you will hear from our guest. Today on the line, I have my friend McKenna Monson. I've known McKenna since she knocked on our door back in 2015 when Joe and I were at our lowest. Her willingness to serve the Lord on a mission to Tennessee was the beginning of a miraculous journey for me and my husband. We love McKenna and I know you will too. So welcome, McKenna. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here and talk with you. me too why don't you tell us just a little bit about what you've been up to since you left tennessee

SPEAKER_02:

oh man so i served my mission in 2015 so i got back in 2017 so since then i um i studied behavioral science at school i also um got my floral design certification and i started my own business doing that And then for many years, I've worked as an autism therapist for children. And then I was married three years ago to my husband, who I also met on my mission. And so we live in Idaho Falls currently, and it's been a whirlwind the past couple of years. I've just gone by so fast. So that's a little bit about where I'm at

SPEAKER_00:

with my life right now. okay that's interesting i didn't know i didn't realize that your husband was in the nashville tennessee mission that's that's very cool yeah yeah crazy

SPEAKER_02:

we met in our last area and we just stayed friends for years after so oh that's the lord works in mysterious

SPEAKER_00:

ways so i just wanted to make mention that some of the things that mckenna is going to talk about today are kind of sensitive in nature and may be a trigger for some people. So I just wanted to mention that up front just so if you feel like this is a podcast as we get into it that you need to come back and listen to later, just be aware of that. And I also wanted to just thank McKenna for being so vulnerable because this is such a tender subject that we're talking about but needs to be shared. And so I'm just so grateful for your willingness to share, McKenna. Of course, of course. First of all, just as an icebreaker, what is something about yourself that people might be surprised to know? Oh, that's a good

SPEAKER_02:

question. This is kind of embarrassing, but I'll share it anyway. So I really have learned within the past couple of years that I am like totally a grandma. Like I absolutely love sitting at home and chatting for like forever with people. I'm obsessed with that. I love classic jazz. So like Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Glenn Miller. I just love that kind of music. And then more recently, I started sewing and I taught myself how to use a sewing machine. And now I love doing that. So I'm pretty sure I'm just like an elderly woman in a 20-something-year-old, you know, body. But it's great.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

I

SPEAKER_00:

love it. Yeah, I love that too. So cool. Okay, so why don't we just go ahead and dive right in and just start from, you know, when things started happening for you. And I might jump in here and there, but I'm just going to let you tell your story.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so I never really had mental health challenges until a few years ago. And so my husband and I, we contracted COVID in 2020. And our healing process was fine. You know, we weren't sick for any inordinate amount of time or anything. But shortly after that, I started having mental health issues. And so the first kind of night that I started experiencing um my anxiety was when i was at work and i was working with a little boy who had autism and i had taken him out um in the community and we were working on his goals and everything and and the night was great and i strapped him in his car seat to take him home and i started driving and immediately i just i started feeling really overwhelmed and I didn't know really what was going on. I couldn't breathe. I felt like my vision was blacking out a little bit and I was just shaking. And that was really scary for me because I just had never experienced something like that before. And so I remember like praying and and telling Heavenly Father, help me out. Let me get this kid home. I don't know what's going on. And so I dropped him off. And then I drove home. And I think it's miraculous now that I was able to get home because I just felt so awful. But I did. And this kind of physical manifestation of something that I didn't understand was happening me and i got home and my husband was there and i was just sobbing and shaking uncontrollably and he had no idea what to do either and so we were just kind of there experiencing what was going on um and just in like a in a big state of panic you know like we just had no idea what to do um so that first incident i guess it lasted for about an hour and then eventually i calmed down and i think i slept because i was just so exhausted um but i woke up a few hours later and then the whole thing started over again um but that time i was shaking for probably four or five hours and it was terrible um just all of those emotions again and being there not knowing what to do my husband had no idea what to do and so after this happened for so long we decided to go to the instacare the next morning and so i did um and i i remember sitting in in the doctor's office they had just let me into a room and just thinking there's something wrong with my body. Like there's something really, really wrong with my body. But they took all of my vitals and they said, you're fine. Like we're not seeing anything that's alarming to us on that side. And that was kind of disheartening to me because I almost felt like I wasn't being understood, but I didn't have the skills to really explain like what was going on and why it was so like such a big deal to me um but they sent a doctor in and he sat down and he talked to me and and he said i think that you're having anxiety attacks um and when he said that i was really confused honestly because i just I've never experienced that before. I mean, you hear about people having anxiety attacks and panic attacks, and you kind of think, okay, like, I think maybe I understand what they are, but

SPEAKER_01:

it

SPEAKER_02:

was so different than what I thought an anxiety attack was. I mean, I felt like I was dying, you

SPEAKER_01:

know? Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and so... So here I am, I'm like sobbing in the doctor's office. It's super embarrassing. And this man is kind of like trying to talk me down and explain what's going on. And in this conversation, he says, I think that probably starting some medication and therapy might be helpful for you. And when he said that, I... I immediately felt a hesitation, which is interesting. And I've thought about this a lot. And I've realized that the stigmas around mental health are so ingrained in our society, so much to the point that here I was someone who has worked with people who have mental health challenges and other disabilities who take medicine and who do therapy. And still, when it was suggested to me, I was very hesitant. And I was just afraid. I mean, I didn't know what to expect about if it would change my personality, if it would actually do any good. We hear about a lot of negative effects of the medicines that people can take. when they have mental health challenges. And I was just really worried about that. But eventually I decided, look, I'm at rock bottom. Like I need to do something because I cannot keep surviving like this. And so that's when I started my medication and started doing therapy. So that was kind of like a rocky road.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think that's so interesting. We were talking, I was thinking about it after we talked earlier, and it's so funny because if we are diagnosed with any type of illness, you know, we go to the doctor because we have something happening like you did. Totally.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

suggest a medication we're like yes yes you know whatever is going to help me you know in any other situation it seems like but when it comes to our mental health because of that stigma we're so hesitant to accept that there's a medication that could help us which is really sad when you think about it because so many people suffer endlessly because they're afraid medication you know and it is it's a hard thing because there are side effects but there are side effects with other medications too you know right so and there's so many people that have good experiences and I think that's what we need to focus on in our society is the good and the people that have positive experiences you know I think it would help some people yeah So after you decided to take medication, tell me about what happened after that.

SPEAKER_02:

So for anyone who hasn't taken medication for any kind of mental health problem that they suffer from, you might not know this. I didn't know this until I started taking medicine, but with usual ssris it takes about six to eight weeks for them to kick in um and that's a long time especially when you're suffering every single day um yes i agree and yeah and you're you're kind of told that the doctor they kind of give you these like scary scenarios and they say um If you start having suicidal thoughts, if you start not feeling yourself, if you start having these negative responses, please call us. So here I was. I'd never taken an SSRI or anything like that before. So I was just so worried. I was like, okay, I need to evaluate every aspect of my life. I need to think about how am I feeling. And it was just overwhelming. So in this period of time, nothing was getting better. I just felt so alone and not myself. And so there were many, many days where I would just plead with Heavenly Father and pray. And I would say, I can't do this anymore. I need you to heal me. I need you to take away my attacks and my depression. Nothing changed. I just remember being really disappointed in having my father because I don't think I had ever been in a situation where I didn't feel like my prayers were being heard. And that was the first time that it felt like that. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

and I think that's a very common feeling when you're taking SSRIs, which is, for those who don't know, it stands for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. And because of the way that it affects your hormones, for some people, it can feel numbing. And I've heard several people say that they felt like they couldn't feel the spirit. when they were on medication. And like you said, it does take a certain period of time for your body to kind of adjust and level out, I feel like. At least that's been my experience. Would you agree? Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

100%. Yeah. And for me, it was almost like nothing happened for six to eight weeks. And then almost immediately, that's when I started changing. And my doctor, he did say to me, he said, you probably won't be able to evaluate yourself. The only way that you're really going to know if you're getting better is by asking the people around you. And I thought that was really interesting. So I think even like six to eight weeks out, I... obviously still did not feel like myself. But my husband could see little changes that manifested that I was more of who I used to be before the challenges.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And that's why I feel like it's so important to have a good support person. And if there are people out there that don't feel like they have a support person, that's where therapy, I think, is so important. And also reach out to others reach out to people like me who are happy to talk and share our experiences um yeah so i think the support person because like you said it there's you have been feeling that way for so long i think it's hard for us to recognize the small changes so that it's nice that loves you that's around you that can say hey no this is you know, this is happening. Give, you know, give us more time. And yeah, that's so

SPEAKER_02:

good. Yeah. Yeah. And even, you know, in those periods, especially in the first few months, I, I still felt so awful, you know, and I

SPEAKER_01:

just,

SPEAKER_02:

if I wouldn't have had my family and my husband and being able to go to therapy, I don't know what I would have done. I mean, I wasn't myself. And so that was really challenging. But obviously, because of those struggles that I was going through, there were a lot of aspects of my life that completely changed. And church became one of those things that was really, really hard for me. Within my experiences, I've always gone to church and I've always been able to go there as like, a place for refuge and peace and just feeling happy and knowing that my heavenly father like understood me and that he was there for me um but during those first i would say like three months i really really struggled at church um i I couldn't sit with our congregation during our sacrament meeting for more than like three to five minutes without starting to have an anxiety attack. And so here I was feeling really enclosed and claustrophobic in a place that I used to feel so much peace. And so I just, I would have to leave and I would walk up and down the halls. of our church building every week. I mean, I tried so hard to just sit there, and I couldn't. And that was hard to process for me. I felt like I wasn't getting the things out of church that I used to be able to, which was almost a further abandonment that i felt from heavenly father um because like you said earlier i couldn't feel the spirit i mean i tried everything i tried to like heighten um like the things that i would do at home i would try to read my scriptures more i tried praying more and nothing was working and there's there's kind of a moment that i think about a lot now And it was an experience that I had at church during this time. And so my husband and I, we got into the church building on a Sunday. And that day, I don't think I even wanted to go into the chapel area where everyone sat because I just was not feeling it. I couldn't do it. But I did want to try to sit there and maybe like hear some of what the speakers were saying. And so although I was kind of having an anxiety attack, it wasn't as like overwhelming as usual. And so I tried sitting in the couch in the foyer and my husband is sitting next to me. And I remember looking into the chapel and seeing all of these people who were members of my congregation and they looked so happy and so peaceful and they were just sitting there and listening to the speakers and that was such a contrast to how i was feeling in my heart and in that moment i i just felt so distanced from everyone from heavenly father from the members of my congregation, even for my husband, because I just felt like no one understood what I was going through. And that made me really sad. And so in this moment, I'm looking at the members of my congregation, and I look over to my right, and hanging in our foyer in our church building is a massive painting that I had never noticed before until this moment. And this painting is a depiction of the paralytic at the Pool of Bethesda by Karl Bloch. And in this painting, it shows a man who is paralyzed, and he is laying on the ground. And he almost has this makeshift covering of cloth over him. And you can see in the painting that there are other people surrounding the Pool of Bethesda. And we see in the painting that Christ is near this man and he's almost like lifting up this cloth to show this man that's like laying on the ground underneath. And when I saw that painting, I knew that I should immediately go to the scriptures. And so I did. And I went to this story of this painting. And it's in John chapter 5. And it's verses 2 through 9. And in this story, the man is approached by Christ. And he tells Christ that he's been searching for... more than 30 years for healing and the reason why he was here along with the rest of the people is because it was legend that if you got into this water at a certain time um you would be healed like the first person in the water would be healed and so he had laid there hoping and wishing that someone would help him to be able to get into the water and be healed. He was hoping for healing for all of these years. And he was incapable of going into the water by himself. And as we know in this story, Christ, he says to this man, rise, take up thy bed and walk. And so I remember reading the scripture and I just felt this pain in my heart. And that was the first time I had felt the spirit in months. And I think the reason why is because Heavenly Father was trying to teach me something from this story. And what I kind of grasped from looking at this painting and thinking about my own experience was that I would be healed eventually, just like this man was. But I wouldn't be healed in the way that I wanted to be healed. In that moment, I just wanted everything to be taken away and me to just like go on and live my merry life, you know. But that was kind of the first moment where I realized, okay, Heavenly Father is not going to do that for me. And I need to accept that. And just like this man at the pool of Bethesda, he probably thought Christ was going to help him into the water. But that's not what happened. He was healed in a completely different way. And I realized I will have healing even though I can't feel my Heavenly Father right now. I know that He's there. And I know that eventually I will get better and things will get better. So that was kind of like my first experience where I... I could evaluate my mental health and where I was at in a more realistic way. I think we talked about earlier that I realized that it wouldn't be in my best interest for Heavenly Father to just take everything away. And wow, you know, that's a big thing to realize, right? And I think it takes a long time. to realize something like that, especially when we're in this huge, huge trial where everything has changed in our lives. Just being to the point where you can kind of let Heavenly Father be the director of your life than you trying to have to do it all alone. It's kind of healing, you know? Yeah. It is.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

that waiting place is the hardest place to be when you're going through something hard, you know, is wanting to be healed or wanting the situation to change and knowing that it can, but just having to be patient and let the Lord work on his timing. I think that's such a hard lesson to learn.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Agreed. So kind of moving forward from that point, eventually my medicine did start kicking in and I was feeling okay. I wouldn't say that I was totally myself, but I was feeling much, much better than where I started. And it was summertime. It was like my last week of work. And I worked at a school and obviously the last week of school is always like the most fun, right? Like the kids are just partying all week and it's just, it's like such a fun time, you know? So I think that like, that was really fun. It was a mood booster for me. And I think for the first time I really felt like, okay, things are getting better and they're going to keep getting better. And I, I was like, just really happy. And so, that week that last week of school for my job i think this was early june and i received a call um and and in this call i was told that one of my closest best friends had passed away from suicide and that was life-shattering. I just had no idea how to even handle that information. When I was told that, it felt like a lightning bolt had gone through my body. And there was no crying. There was no sadness. It was just complete shock for probably the first hour after I had heard that news. And obviously after that point, after I'd kind of processed that a little bit, my mental health went downhill. And I think it's easy for me to look back and say, not only did it go downhill, it was much worse than when I started off because I was having anxiety, I was having depression like before, but I also had these huge amounts of grief and regret and everything that comes along with when you lose someone from suicide. There's just so much to unpack with all of that. And so during that time, I remember my prayers reverting back to how they were before in my earlier moments of dealing with anxiety. And I just Heavenly Father to take it all away. I didn't want to feel what I was feeling. I didn't want the pain anymore in my life because it was so heavy and it was so encompassing. And during this time, I was looking back in my journal and I found that I kept writing about this scripture that I had come across in some way. I don't know how. But this scripture was in Matthew 8, and it's verses 1 through 3. And in this very short story that we read in the Bible, there's an instance where a leper comes to Christ. He says, and behold, well, the verse starts and it says, and behold, there came a leper and worshiped him, speaking of Christ, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And we know in the story that the Savior heals this man and he goes and he starts his new life as a healed person. And The reason why this scripture was so impactful for me during the time was that this man used the phrase, if thou wilt. And that signified that this man had faith to be healed, but that it was Christ's decision to heal him or not. And that was a big turning point for me because I think I was reminded again that We, in our very limited view of our lives, can only know a fraction of what the Lord has in store for us. And if Heavenly Father at that moment had just taken away my pain and my grief and my anxiety and depression, I would not be the person that I am today. That's so good. Yeah. And I think it takes a lot of struggle to kind of realize that when you realize that I don't have a lot of control that Heavenly Father does.

SPEAKER_01:

So

SPEAKER_02:

this scripture, it impacted me because it kind of showed me, okay, here I am. with these struggles and heavenly father, he's in control, but what can I do right now to kind of live with this? And that was the first time that I had thought about that. I mean, before I was just so consumed with my own struggles that I didn't want to think about anyone else. And that sounds so selfish, but I think that's really common for people that have mental health issues, you're just

SPEAKER_00:

overwhelmed. Well, because you're in so much pain all the time. Yeah. So it's hard to think of anything else. But I think that that is a huge turning point for people when they realize that they do have an ounce of control, you know, in this situation. So I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. It was a big deal for me, for sure. And that's when I started doing some things to kind of look outside of myself. With the passing of my best friend, with her death and with the way that she died, there was a lot of loose ends, just in a lot of people's lives that knew her. And I... I went to her funeral with my husband, and the overwhelming feeling that I had at her service was that I needed to reach out to her younger sister. I had known her whole family for a really long time, and I felt especially close with her youngest sister. That was when I decided to start writing letters to her. We wrote letters back and forth. We still do to this day. And it was a time where both of us could just talk about how we were feeling and we could process those emotions that we had about the situation and about the after effects. And that was so healing for me. I mean, here I was trying to do a service for her and trying to provide her with a place where she could talk openly about what she was going through. But it was such a benefit to me. And I think that's kind of what service is. Ultimately, we can try to give ourselves and try to help other people. But in the long run, I think we're the ones that get blessed from serving. And so she was really helpful to my family. to my healing. And I don't think she realizes that. I should probably tell her that. But that was the first kind of thing that I did to try to focus on other people. And so during this time, I'm trying to look for ways to serve. And so I decided I can be a better ministering sister in our church. have a system where we reach out to members of our congregation. And so I committed myself to being a better person to reach out to those people that I was assigned to. And I gained some really great friendships. And by doing these things to think about other people, I received the healing that I needed. I still... struggle at times and I still have issues. There are days that are hard and there are days when I just, I have to take a second and just stop and collect myself and then move forward. But I can honestly say looking back that I would not be the person that I am today. without the struggles that I've experienced in the past. And I feel so grateful for my struggles now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, isn't that interesting? Because I have gotten to that point too, but like you said, it doesn't happen overnight. And it's not until we can look back and be able to see that God's hand was weaved through the whole thing, it was just really difficult for us to see during that time. So yeah, what would be your advice to someone who is maybe experiencing some of these feelings for the very first time or going through something really difficult? What would be your... your advice or your counsel?

SPEAKER_02:

I think there's a few things I would say. The first thing is you need to get help right now. And I think sometimes that when people are experiencing these challenges, they feel so paralyzed. They don't know what to do or they don't want to do anything because it's scary. And I have totally felt that before. But my advice, initially would be, if you're going to do anything, get help right now. There's a hotline for people who are experiencing suicidal thoughts or feeling overwhelming mental health struggles. You just dial 988 and you can be connected with people who are trained to talk to you and help you kind of process these emotions. That's initially what you should do moving forward. You can talk to your doctor, talk to people that you care about, a family member, a friend, a church member, anyone who you can reach out to and express to them that you're feeling these things. And I guess the second thing that I would say is that don't be afraid to make changes in your life that can possibly help you. For me, I was afraid to start therapy and medication, but I wouldn't have become myself again if I hadn't done those things. I guess the third thing that I would say is this moment in your life, no matter how difficult, how deeply alone you feel, it will not last. There will be a time eventually where you will feel better and you need to choose right now in this really difficult time that you're gonna stick with it and that you're going to choose to stay and push through because I know that things are going to get better because they did for me, they did for Wendy, and they have for people that have gone through these struggles. So please don't feel like things are never going to change because they will.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so good. I love that. Yeah, this is a difficult subject to discuss, I think, because people carry it. with them that that's the tendency is to hide this mental illness that you have you know because people don't want to feel like they're different i think is is one of the main things is they don't want to feel like they're broken and like mckenna said it's so important to reach out and i would say also if you in those small moments like when mckenna seen the picture in the church hallway or the scripture or things like that that happen write them down in a journal keep track of the moments that you do feel the spirit even if it's brief because i feel like that's so important to be able to look back and say okay there are There are things that are happening. No, I'm not being healed right away. No, I might never be healed in the way that I want to be healed. But the Lord is there, even when I can't necessarily see or feel him.

SPEAKER_02:

That's great advice. I totally agree. We only have so much control, and we can't control everything. It's not our job.

SPEAKER_01:

But

SPEAKER_02:

it's hard to let go of that control, especially if you have mental health struggles. But it's so worth it. It's worth it to just give it to Heavenly Father and say, I'm willing to do what you need me to do. So that's kind

SPEAKER_00:

of where I am right

SPEAKER_02:

now.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you, McKenna. I feel like this has been so beneficial, and I think it will help so many people. and their struggles with their mental health. And it's so, so, so important. So thank you so much for giving up your time and your service to share your experiences. Thank

SPEAKER_02:

you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00:

Isn't McKenna amazing? I am so grateful that she reached out and was willing to be on the podcast and share her experiences. I loved the part where she said, when people feel these challenges, they feel so paralyzed. And when I listened back to the show, I saw that parallel between where she talked about how she saw the picture in the church of the paralytic man from the pool of Bethesda. And so I looked up Karl Bloch's picture and I will post it on my blog. And it says that it portrays Christ both as a healer and a comforter. And I love that so much because we are not always healed in the way that we hope or the way that we expect, but he is always, always there to comfort us. I hope that if you are struggling, that you can feel the spirit that McKenna brought to the show today and know that he is there. And if you have the eyes of faith to see that he He is working in your life and he is doing the things that are going to benefit you in the long run. Thanks for listening today. If you or someone you know has a challenge or you're working through challenges, please reach out to me. I would love to have you on the show. Thanks, you guys. I really love and appreciate all of your support. Have a good week and I'll talk to you again soon.