Pointing Toward Hope
Pointing toward hope is for anyone who struggles to find hope in their trials. In each episode, we will have conversations with myself and others, to help you overcome difficulties in your life through applying the atonement of Jesus Christ. We will laugh, cry and learn together how to push through the hard times in your life, and move toward a more abundant way of living. Consider yourself invited to join me on this journey toward a more hopeful joyous life.
If you or someone you know has a trial that you have been able to get through with the help of our Savior, please contact me so we can get you on the podcast.
Pointing Toward Hope
Healing Beyond Darkness: A Mental Health Journey of Faith with Michelle
How do you find hope when your mind feels like your enemy? Michelle's powerful journey from destructive behaviors and suicidal thoughts to healing through faith is truly remarkable.
Michelle's story explores how proper diagnosis (Borderline Personality Disorder-BPD and PostTraumatic Stress Disorder-PTSD), medication, therapy, and spiritual practices worked together in her recovery. She shares profound insights about the interconnection between physical and spiritual health, the power of priesthood blessings, and how making time with God her highest priority transformed her life.
Whether you're struggling with mental health challenges or supporting someone who is, this episode offers practical wisdom and spiritual encouragement. Michelle's testimony reminds us that with divine help, healing is possible even from the darkest places.
Faith a bond of Trust and Loyalty -Elder Sandino Roman
Spiritually Whole in Him-Camille N. Johnson
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You're listening to the Pointing Toward Hope podcast conversations to help you endure and overcome the trials of life through faith, hope and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, because with Him, all things are possible. I am your host, wendy Bertinoli, and this is episode number 76. I have on the line with me today my good friend, michelle. Welcome, michelle Hi, thank you, I'm so happy that you agreed to do this and just can you just give the listeners a little bit of background on who you are and maybe a fun fact about yourself that people might be surprised to know?
Speaker 2:I grew up in Nashville, which is funny. That's where I met you, but a lot later in life I loved playing outside growing up, and nature has just always been a solace for me, just has brought me solace. I've loved hiking and camping. I'm just really outdoorsy. And I have a wonderful husband. He's truly amazing and we have four kids, two dogs. We met in Johnson City, tennessee, in an institute class and what's funny is I'm now an institute teacher. I've served in many different teaching positions in the church, so I guess I would describe myself as a teacher, but only if the Spirit's with me, because I need the Spirit with me at all times to make a difference.
Speaker 1:Let's just get started with your story. Just take us back to where things began for you.
Speaker 2:Okay. So ever since I can remember, I've had an unstable sense of self or who I am, and I was highly impulsive. I would do whatever felt good in the moment. I made really dangerous and self-destructive decisions when I was young, in my youth, and some of them resulted in traumatic events. This fueled a hatred for myself and a total disregard for my future, and so I tried to drown out all of those feelings with drugs and alcohol. I remember having my first thoughts in an attempt of suicide, actually as a young teenager. So that just just knowing all that and remembering all of that as I was preparing for this, I'm just in awe. I'm often in awe at my life, the life that I have now, knowing what could have been. I know that God has preserved my life and he's been so merciful and good to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is always amazing to look back and just see how God is in the details of everything and he protects us and sends messengers to be there for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't have many clear memories growing up, but I remember there being a time early in my marriage where I could barely remember anything from my past, so it was like my brain blocked it out. I feel like that could have been a tender mercy from God, because I needed to forget for a while in order to move forward and into a new life. I had repented of my sins and was married in the Nashville Temple. I was new to the gospel, almost like a brand new convert. I developed a testimony early on of the importance of daily scripture reading and prayer, but I don't think I realized how crucial it would be for my future and also my healing and my relationships, Most importantly, my relationship with God. So my marriage wasn't great in the beginning. We were both really young and, of course, I had much to learn. We both had much to learn about communication, forgiveness, sacrifice.
Speaker 2:But I wasn't able to handle the stress and react any stress really and react well in any kind of stressful situation. So I would have these extreme mood shifts and feel so angry, even hateful, to my husband. I would act out in anger, say hateful words, slam doors. Sometimes afterward I don't know if you've experienced this, but I would feel like a sense of relief after acting out in anger or having an emotional outburst. If Sean chose to respond with anger and hurtful words, the negative feelings would just intensify. But I would not only experience that anger and hate and rage. Only experience that anger and hate and rage. If he reacted. It would like spiral me into a severe depression and suicidal thoughts as well. I don't think I believed anybody truly loved me for a long time. I know that I didn't feel that I was worthy of love. It took a long time actually to develop trust in my husband and family and everybody and believe that they actually do love me and they want me here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, were there specific moments during this process that really stand out to you like sort of many miracles? Just during that time when you were going through all of that, were there specific memories that you had that reminded you of who you are and how worthy you are of the Spirit?
Speaker 2:I think just learning about the gospel, having the gospel in my life, has been a miracle for sure. It seemed like the more I learned about the gospel, the more conscious I became of my behavior. So I would feel extreme guilt, though, and I would blame my husband or kids, not fully recognizing what was happening within that was actually causing these reactions, which made it hard to have a stable relationship with my husband, and I'm sure it was hard for him to forgive me when I was blaming him and repeating these behaviors. And, of course, you know, having children made it harder, and I know, I know God had to have been helping me. I mean, his grace has always been there.
Speaker 2:But I know I've said and done many hurtful things as a parent as well. I know the Savior's atonement has blessed my children with healing, and these experiences will be for their good. God doesn't. He doesn't make mistakes, though. He knew what he was doing when he put them here with me. Yeah, I've experienced many miracles, though I don't even know where to start. I know meeting you has been a great miracle in my life.
Speaker 1:Michelle, looking back, what was the beginning of your healing? Where did that start?
Speaker 2:So I was thinking about this and I actually came across a conference talk by. It was in the most recent conference and it's called Faith a Bond of Trust and Loyalty, by Elder Roman, and I can relate so much to what he was sharing about his experience of trying to save his friend from drowning. So when he was saying you know, his friend was, you know, in desperation, he like climbed onto his back when he was trying to save them from drowning and he put him in a chokehold. So they were both drowning and he was trying to reach the surface and prayed with like all his might for a miracle from god. And then, slowly but steadily, the power of god was manifest, he said, as he felt a hand propelling him toward the shallow end of the pool and then they were both brought to safety. That experience that he shared of drowning is just like mine, except drawn out over many years and like maybe my family being on my back instead of a friend.
Speaker 2:But life became so painful to live. Relationships, serving in the church, working all of that was adding to my stress and I just felt like I was drowning. But I know God was quietly propelling me forward. So some days I would just like plead with God to let me die, to just take me. I was tired of fighting. I would beg for help.
Speaker 2:I typically didn't sleep through the night, so during the night one night I woke up and I felt the need to pray and read my scriptures. It was Good Friday that day, so I was reading in Matthew 26 and the words of Jesus really stood out to me like they were speaking directly to me, especially verse 38, where jesus is speaking to his disciples in the garden of gethsemane. It says then saith he unto them my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death. Tarry ye here and watch with me. I wrote this in my journal. About that I put heavenly father knows of my exceedingly sorrowful soul, even unto death. I plead with him often to help me. It's like he wanted me to read these words from my Savior on this night, the day after. I fasted and prayed to have more control over these feelings I get so often, especially lately. I read those words and felt like Jesus was saying to me stay here, keep working at it, focusing each day on the sacrifice and work that is needed of your life. Do it with me.
Speaker 1:That is the only way you will be able to endure. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that you felt him say do this with me. Yeah, that is the only way I could have done it and still to this day, I remember those words that that is the only way you'll be able to endure, and so I need him every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as do we all.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I think that's the key to healing really is knowing that we have to do it through him. It's only through him that we're saved and it's only through him to be able to heal from emotional and mental trials too. Emotional and mental trials too. But there was a quote from President Nelson that really it perfectly describes the beginning of my healing story.
Speaker 2:He says when you reach up for the Lord's power in your life with the same intensity that a drowning person has when grasping and gasping for air, power from Jesus Christ will be yours. When the Savior knows you truly want to reach up to him, when he can feel that the greatest desire of your heart is to draw his power into your life, you will be led by the Holy Ghost to know exactly what you should do. So that is what happened. So during the next few months, that is what happened. So during the next few months, the Lord led me by the Holy Ghost to know exactly what I should do to start healing with him, After I had asked him to heal me with that same intensity President Nelson speaks of so what was the next step that you took after that happened?
Speaker 2:So he answered my prayers in the form of revelations, the next step that you took after that happened. So he answered my prayers in the form of revelations, teaching me what I needed to do. So most of these came in the middle of the night when I couldn't sleep. I knew the Lord was telling me that if I really wanted to be healed, if I really want to be healed, I needed to make time with him. My highest priority wanted to be healed. If I really want to be healed, I needed to make time with him, my highest priority. He wanted me to always use the time in the middle of the night to pray and study my scriptures. So even today, now that I can sleep through the night most nights, I have my alarm set for 5 am every day for prayer, scripture study, meditation, sometimes writing down what I learned in my journal. I do that quite often and I look forward to that time now.
Speaker 2:It used to be hard, and I mean I even had an experience where I could recognize the adversary trying to stop me from writing down something I knew I should. But I know that one of the most important revelations that I received for my healing was about how I was to treat my body. I had known that my spirit is greatly affected by the way I treat my physical body, but I hadn't realized just how important it really is for me in my life. In fact, I did some studying a couple months ago about how to conquer Satan, and I found that self-mastery, and the word of wisdom, is directly connected to that. Um, but the revelation that really changed my life was when I learned I needed to find a psychiatrist. I knew by then I had a mood disorder and that I needed to change, but I just felt out of control and, um, yeah, so he helped me learn that I needed to see a psychiatrist.
Speaker 2:Interesting enough, I had met you in Nashville when we were living there. We had moved back, and that was some of the darkest times for me. I remember just pleading with God one time in the closet there at my home, just begging for help, and I had turned on my phone and I saw a post you had made or you had shared your experience of your struggles with mental health, and I just thought I need to reach out to her, I need to, I need to talk to her, like I just knew you could help me, and so and I had never met you, so it was hard, but I did. I sent you a message and you I can't remember exactly. I think you pretty quickly responded back to me and then you, but we were in separate services right, and so we did not know each other.
Speaker 1:But I remember getting that phone call. I'll never forget that phone call because I could hear in your voice just the desperation, the desperation of just needing somebody who could understand to a certain extent what you were going through. And um, and I, I just wanted to be there for you and um, so that's why I suggested you know, can I, can I come over, Can we talk more? And so that's kind of where our relationship began.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you were such a help to me. I mean you, you helped me realize, like the brevity of my, my situation with mental health and you encouraged me to see a psychiatrist, although I didn't listen at the time, but I think there was other things happening in my life that I might have been trying to move and maybe maybe just the timing wasn't right, yeah, and that one takes a while too.
Speaker 1:I think, just talking about we had talked about the stigma earlier when we were preparing for this, and I think that is really strong. Not only I mean within ourselves. We carry that stigma with us and so it's really hard to think, oh, I need to see a doctor, I might need to take medication or things like that. That's something that we really need to work on in our society and I think by doing things like this, that will help a little bit. But that is the hard part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean I had horrible experiences. I mean for 20 years I had been trying to find medicines that worked and taking antidepressants and things would just make, or those medicines would make my symptoms worse. I mean it was like pouring fuel on the fire, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and do you think, looking back, maybe that was because you didn't have a proper diagnosis? Because I know with myself, it took me I was 45, I think, when I finally got my diagnosis, my true diagnosis.
Speaker 2:Definitely, I think definitely. I needed to see a psychiatrist to give me the proper diagnosis, to know how to properly treat my condition, but I was just grateful that you were there to support me and listen to me and you gave me life-saving advice, even if I wasn't seeing a doctor at the time. I remember you had me write in a gratitude journal that you had actually dropped off and some cute pens and just your advice to write down every night things that I was grateful for, like 10 things that like completely shifted my thinking and helped me survive. It was truly lifesaving. And also your husband, joe. He gave me a blessing and I really feel like that saved my life. You helped my husband and I both in our relationship as well. So, and you know, we walked and talked and we just became really good friends. So that's definitely a miracle.
Speaker 1:So that's definitely a miracle, yeah, and I think you know it's a testament to me that the Lord really does work in the details of our lives and brings people into our lives that have certain maybe similar things in their lives that can help us get through. You know, maybe there are a few steps ahead of us and so they can help us see what's coming in some ways. And it's really. It was such a tender moment for us, me and my husband, because my healing began with a priesthood blessing when I had my first manic episode and was in the hospital, so for him to I mean we had, I had been through a large healing process. We talk about how you and I talk about how it's a lifelong healing. You don't, it's not like you're automatically healed and you never have to deal with it again. It's a daily. You're dealing with it daily.
Speaker 1:But there does come a point, I feel like, when you can look back and you can see how far you've come. And that's kind of the point we were at when I offered that blessing to you or to have Him come and give you a blessing, and so it was kind of a full circle moment for us, because that blessing that we had was what kind of started my healing. So we just felt so, um, I can't just humbled to be able to do that for somebody else because it was such a a turning point in our lives. So it was really cool for us and I I will never forget that time in your home, sitting with you and your husband at the kitchen table after the blessing and just kind of talking through some of the experiences that you had had and that we had been through and kind of comparing back and forth, and the spirit was really, really strong. I remember that day.
Speaker 2:Yes, I always remember that day. That was a wonderful day, yeah, to have hope. You gave me hope. Yeah, I also have had many experiences with blessings not just the one from Joe, but from my husband as well Just being exactly what I needed to keep going. Um, I remember being in a really, really bad place, um, I can't remember what year, but Sean gave me a blessing and I think the Lord actually prepared me, by blessing me with him as a husband because of his priesthood gift, to be able to heal, because it allowed me to keep going, even though I didn't feel like I could feel the spirit at that time, I knew that I needed to keep reading my scriptures and praying, and it gave me the strength to just keep doing that, and I really think that was instrumental in just doing those small things. Even if we can't feel the Spirit, the Spirit helps us and those things just bring the Spirit into our lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you talked a little bit about faith. How does that play into? You know just how you endure this challenge.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that no one else but God and His son, jesus Christ, knows how we feel. No one can understand the pain and the torment that comes with these trials of mental and emotional disorders, and I know that. I've always believed that they were the only ones that could understand that, and so I've always prayed um. Even though I didn't have a, a testimony of of the gospel until later in my life, um, I always believed in them, um, and their healing power, so I've always prayed to them, prayed to my Heavenly Father, to know what to do and to beg for help. So just believing in Him, believing in my Savior and His ability to heal, has been life-saving, yeah, life-saving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, michelle, looking back even before, maybe you started having symptoms. Well, first of all, can I ask I don't think I know this about you, but did you grow up in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day?
Speaker 2:Saints? I did. I've always grown up in the church, but I think, beyond just going to church, I didn't have you know, my testimony wasn't there. I didn't really understand what it was about and so, obviously, because of my youth, my childhood and the experiences I've had, I just that wasn't my focus. Yeah, but I'm grateful that my parents took me to church and that that was the teachings that I grew to love. Yeah, and that I know are true. Yeah, and that I know her through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so do you feel like the Lord was helping prepare you for the trials that you would go through? Looking back, can you pinpoint things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that he prepared me with everybody that I have in my life right now my parents, my friends, my family, but just the places that I've lived. He's led me to the places I've lived, I think in part because of the people I needed to meet that played a role in my healing. You in particular, and also even small things like the YMCA is a block away from my house right now, but just having that routine of exercise and knowing that I need that in my life to balance my hormones and my emotions, it just makes it so easy and or easier to have it a block away from my house. I mean, just small things like that are miracles for me too. But, um, I know that he led me, um by his spirit to know what to do, and so when I was told to see a psychiatrist, the psychiatrist diagnosed me with borderline personality disorder and she prescribed me a medicine that was life-changing. It helped me so much.
Speaker 2:For about a year I took it and then, you know, it didn't work as well. After that. It might started getting the symptoms. They came back and but I prayed and asked God what I should do and the spirit led me to to know that I needed to get off of it at that time and that he would help me after that and I know that's not everybody's experience, you know that's kind of unique, but I don't know why that's what he led me to do, but it's been good for me to rely on the Lord.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. Another blessing I received was when, well after I knew I needed to see a psychiatrist, I was really scared, of course, because I had had bad experiences with medicine and I just knew, okay, they're just gonna prescribe me another medicine and I'm gonna have all the negative side effects and it's just going to be horrible. But I did trust the Lord and I asked my husband for a blessing and his blessing gave me the strength to accept the direction that I received from the psychiatrist to take medicine and to go get therapy, actually from an intensive outpatient program treatment center or a treatment center that had an intensive outpatient program and, yeah, so getting that blessing really did prepare me and help me to accept that direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can you tell us a little bit more about the outpatient program that you did?
Speaker 2:Sure, sure um, we, so we met for about probably six weeks. It was three hours a day, um, I think three days a week, and they, they did a lot of wonderful, like art therapy and mindfulness practices. Um, I got to meet so many wonderful people that were struggling with the same thing that I was. They talked about self-talk and how to use acronyms to remind you of how to turn those thoughts into positive thoughts, or how to recognize at least the negative and to nurture the good. There was a few things, though, that I discovered, and it was to um, or they had a focus on healing by yourself, basically, or with people, but I can't explain this, really. I think, um, it was a focus on self, and, and there wasn't spiritual, there wasn't a spiritual aspect of it.
Speaker 2:I think going to the, the intensive outpatient program, was good for me, though, because it helped me to realize that, which I I had already known, but it confirmed to me that healing is really through the savior. There's all these different um therapies and and tactics, or what is it? Um I can't think of the word these tools that we can use that are prescribed by man, really, but god is really. The only way we can heal is through faith in him and he helps us. After that intensive outpatient program, though, I saw an individual therapist for quite a while almost a year I would say and he helped me a lot too. He was wonderful in helping me believe that all of these things in my life happened for a reason, that they are to work for my good and that I can learn and grow and that really is the purpose of life. And he just helped me love myself really and see that God loves me and that I'm worthy of love. So that was an extremely helpful time in my life to see Him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Lord definitely puts people in our path that are specifically catered toward us. I feel I had several of those experiences as well as well, and I would call them evidences of His love for us.
Speaker 2:You know that he puts people specific people that are meant just for us.
Speaker 2:He also actually used to run the ARP, which is the Addiction Recovery Program for the church in his area, and he told me me or he suggested that I should go to to arp, and I did. I started attending once a week, which is like a group therapy and it's a 12-step program, and he told me it would help me to connect with god. And that's exactly what that program does. It helped me connect with God and really it teaches you that you have to humble yourself and give your will up just by that practice of going there every week and working on it throughout the week, of just praying to heavenly father in those moments of weakness and you know, if it's not an addiction, it can. It could be any character, weakness and and even mental and emotional struggles and whatever it is that we struggle with. If we just pray in that moment and give that will, our will, to God, he promises help and he promises to help us heal. So it really is through Him and I learned that in that program help us heal.
Speaker 1:So it really is through him and I learned that in that program. Yeah, michelle, you have given us so many good things to do, but for anyone who is going through something similar it it can be difficult to keep going, and I know for you you've said mentioned several times just today that it was difficult to keep going. Um, are there specific strategies that you use now to be able to cope when things come up?
Speaker 2:Um, I definitely think you have to listen to the spirit for your, for your life, um, for my, for my life, I know it's keeping a routine. Exercise is huge for me. I have struggles with my hormones and the things that I put in my body and the way I treat my body extremely affects my body and my spirit, because I feel like they're all connected. Everything is connected spiritual and physical and emotional and mental, and so I try to keep the routine of exercising in the mornings and also focusing on what I eat and avoiding sugar, and also sleep. For me, I need to be in bed early and not stay up late, especially since I am waking up at 5 am in the morning to get in my scripture study and prayer and meditation. Those things are very they're crucial for me, so that I would say that's my, my coping skills.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree with that, and those are some of my coping skills as well. But as you were talking, I was thinking the Lord has given us the word of wisdom, he's given us these, he's given us prophets that tell us and teach us these things that we need to be doing and working on, and he's basically laid out this plan for us, and we even talked earlier about how, like you said, the physical affects the spiritual the more spiritually strong you are, the more physically strong you are, and vice versa, and so they just work in tandem, I feel like, with each other, and I love that. That is part of what we believe as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that our physical health affects our spiritual health, and the closer that we come to the Spirit, the more that that affects us physically. So it is really kind of a neat little circle.
Speaker 2:Definitely, I agree.
Speaker 1:Last question, michelle, I love everything that you've talked about here, and there's so many good little nuggets in there, but what have you learned about having hope in your daily life?
Speaker 2:What I have learned about hope is that waiting on the Lord is worship, or having hope every day that I can heal with the Savior is worship, and so continuing every day doing what I can with my Savior that's what it means to keep our covenants.
Speaker 1:Thank you, michelle, for being so vulnerable and sharing your experience with everyone. I know that there are people out there that are going to be especially touched by what you've shared with us today, and I just thank you so much for being here. Thank you, wendy. The Lord has a specific way of just making things work out for our good. As Michelle said, when we were preparing for the podcast, she had mentioned to me that God did heal her, that he actually rewired her brain, and I love the way that she said that, and I was thinking you know how much. She mentioned that you can't do it without God, and that's what this podcast is all about, and so I just am so grateful for her and for her sharing her experiences. If you want to get in touch with her or have more questions for her, please get in touch with me and I can put you in touch with her Because, like I said, the Lord puts people in our paths for a reason. And that's all for this week, my friends. I hope you will join us again next time.