Pointing Toward Hope
Pointing toward hope is for anyone who struggles to find hope in their trials. In each episode, we will have conversations with myself and others, to help you overcome difficulties in your life through applying the atonement of Jesus Christ. We will laugh, cry and learn together how to push through the hard times in your life, and move toward a more abundant way of living. Consider yourself invited to join me on this journey toward a more hopeful joyous life.
If you or someone you know has a trial that you have been able to get through with the help of our Savior, please contact me so we can get you on the podcast.
Pointing Toward Hope
Episode 77 When God's Plan Differs From Ours: Aubrey's Missionary Journey
What happens when your missionary service becomes the catalyst for a profound mental health crisis? In this powerful conversation, Aubrey opens up about her journey serving in Guadalajara, Mexico, and the painful decision to return home after 14 months in the field.
With remarkable candor, Aubrey shares how undiagnosed anxiety and depression shaped her experience both before and during her mission. Though naturally gifted with Spanish and deeply devoted to sharing the gospel, she found herself increasingly trapped in destructive thought patterns following an emotionally abusive companionship that left her questioning her spiritual worthiness.
If you've ever felt spiritually inadequate during mental health struggles or questioned God's presence in your darkest moments, this episode provides a redemptive perspective that will illuminate your own path forward.
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Hey, friends, you're listening to the Pointing Toward Hope podcast conversations to help you endure and overcome the trials of life through faith, hope and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, because with God, all things are possible. My name is Wendy Barton-Ole, I'm your host. This is episode 76. And I have here with me today my good friend, aubrey. Welcome, aubrey. Hey, it's great to see you. It's good to see you too. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm okay, thanks for asking me to be here and having me over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just to get started, can you tell the listeners just a little bit about yourself and maybe a fun fact that people would be surprised to know?
Speaker 2:Okay, Well, it's funny, the surprising aspect of something fun that people wouldn't know about me. I couldn't figure out, but I guess the closest thing I could think of was that we're living the trek backwards. I'm living the trek backwards on accident throughout my life, except for here in Nashville. We live in Nashville, um, but I grew up in Utah, well, was born in Utah, and then I moved to Illinois, so you know there's Carthage and stuff in that area. And then, um, when I was around 11 to 14 years old, we moved to Kansas, uh, which is near. We were at like in Kansas city, that area, and it was like close to a lot of like church history sites. If anybody ever if anybody listening ever goes there, please go to Adam on Dayama and do yourself a favor and please go Um.
Speaker 2:And then we moved to Ohio after my husband and I got married, so we got to see all this stuff there, like Kirtland and all of that. So we figured it might be New York next, but we're in Nashville instead. So, um, but yeah, as far as like where I am right now, I have my husband, will, and I we've been married for over eight years Uh, we have a fur baby. His name is Moose, named after Mike Moustakis from the KC Royals Cause my husband proposed to me there at a KC Royals baseball game. So, oh, how fun. And I teach piano and, uh, just got a new calling and I'm going to school just taking one class at a time because, yeah, I don't have a lot of time for a ton of classes so what is your fur baby?
Speaker 1:is it dog, cat, shilty?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, dog he's. Uh, he's kind of crazy. We love him, though. Oh, he matches our vibe and his name's moose.
Speaker 1:You said Moose, yeah, oh, so fun. So a little tiny dog but big, Big name.
Speaker 2:He's about 40 to 50 pounds. I think, oh, okay, yeah, he's so sweet, he's basically our son.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I never had actually really met a Sheltie, I think before we had him in our last Dogtoto. I I never had actually really met a Sheltie, I think before we had him in our last Dogtoto.
Speaker 1:I love Shelties now. They're great. Yeah, yeah, that's so fun. Okay, well, just to get started. We all know that in life, things don't always work out the way that we planned, and I just want to thank Aubrey for sharing a part of her life that is painful. She's just coming up on 10 years since her experience, which we have that in common, because the reason I started this podcast was because of my own experience, which happened in 2015. So we kind of have that little painful anniversary coming up, but we all have things in life that are really difficult and hard, and I'm just so grateful for her agreeing to share her experience with us today. So why don't we just dive right in, aubrey?
Speaker 2:I've been trying to think of where to start and I don't quite know because I feel like there's some context to understand what I went through. But, um, before I went on my mission, um, I had gone through a lot of difficult things in my life and it moved around a lot and, uh, I also was um had undiagnosed like ADHD, anxiety, depression, um, because I think back in those days we didn't really talk about it much, like when I was growing up, um, I would hear somebody say ADHD and I'd and I'd think of like um, I don't know, like a little boy who can't keep his hands to himself, um, anywho, but uh, yeah, I grew up and I really struggled in like keeping different things going at school and such Um, so I would do really well in one class and then other classes would be really hard. I grew up never really feeling like I fit in anywhere and definitely noticing that I was different, and then I had some other stuff just going on that I don't think I really feel comfortable sharing on the podcast. But basically, um just really always wondered if I was doing good enough. But where I did find like peace and strength and comfort was like at church and with Jesus. I think I really felt Him in my life, like since I was young, and especially as I got older.
Speaker 2:I got into like the youth program in seminary, like the youth program in seminary, and I remember just feeling my testimony grow during those years and realizing that, like even when there were those feelings of inadequacy or just struggling, that I could find peace in Jesus, and like I really wanted everybody I knew to know that and feel that and have that in their lives, because I knew it had made such a difference for me. It had helped me do things I didn't think I could do and I was just set. I was going to go on a mission. I told everybody I was going to go on a mission.
Speaker 2:Back in those days, missionaries didn't serve until they were 21 years old if they were young women. Back in those days, missionaries didn't serve until they were 21 years old if they were young women. And I was, fortunate enough, though, where the general conference in fall after I got out of high school, they announced there was an age change. I literally was jumping up and down, yelling because I was so excited. It was really exciting, and I called my bishop that night because I just I knew that this is what I needed to do. Took me like a year or so to get my papers in, though, but yeah, I ended up in the mission a year after that.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so cool. I love hearing that story and how excited you were and just calling your bishop right away. That is so exciting that you were just so thrilled to go. So tell me about getting your call and going out into the field. What was that like?
Speaker 2:I was so okay, I got my call, and I remember just this is a fun fact, just fun story. When I opened up my call, I saw there was this really long name and I spoke Spanish to a certain degree. I had taken a few years in high school. I actually skipped a year, Um, cause it just kind of came naturally to me. So I did like years one, three and four. Basically, I didn't take year two. I saw this word, though, and I'm like I think that's Spanish, and I, as I was reading out the call cause that was a big deal back in those days too you had the paper mission call, and you got all of your friends and family to come over, and I started holding it up and I like, in my head, I said I don't think I can go to a place if I can't pronounce it. It came out of my mouth just fine, Guadalajara, Mexico. And I'm like, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:I can do that. Oh, that's so exciting. We talked about on the phone earlier when we were preparing for the podcast, that you had gone to Mexico and my son also went to Mexico, but he went to Tampico. Oh really, so I think that's on the other side of Mexico.
Speaker 2:I'm not entirely familiar with Mexican geography.
Speaker 1:He was by the Gulf is where he was at Gotcha. But that's really exciting. That's exciting. So you got called to serve in Guadalajara, and then what happened?
Speaker 2:Well, I went out. It was. I was really excited, though I remember feeling, as soon as I stepped on the plane, like, oh, this is different. I hadn't lived outside of my own home. You know, I wasn't the one really paying rent at that time either. You know, I was fresh out of high school, basically, and I had all the desire in the world to be the best missionary I could be. I remember, actually and I don't feel uncomfortable sharing this, but in my patriarchal blessing it said to not waste any of your time. It said you can serve a mission and if you go to make sure you don't waste any time while you're out there. And so I'm like, great, I'm going to make sure you don't waste any time while you're out there. And so I'm like, great, I'm going to make sure that I use every moment. I was ready to take it very seriously and I went and did my best and again, the Spanish kind of came easy to me. I definitely had a lot to learn and I had the best trainer ever too. She was great.
Speaker 2:So when you go out to the mission, you have, you know, your mission training experience, which is kind of the amount of time you're in there kind of depends on the people, like where they're going. For me it was. I'm pretty sure it was. Yeah, it was six weeks. So then I went out to Mexico, had a couple of transfers there, which is six weeks each, and so after I got through my training, I was in a trio for a couple of weeks. We were heading out the door when I got a call from our zone leader saying that I needed. They're like Armanda Nielsen Sister Nielsen, that was my name. Sorry, she has to leave now. She has like 30 minutes, I think it was. Thankfully we were right outside our door. My companions went back inside and literally started throwing my things into suitcases because that was apparently the last bus for the night and I had to leave right then so that I could make sure everything was okay where I was going. I remember going in there and seeing my companions throwing my stuff into bookcases. And then I got a call from the mission president detailing the stuff that had been going down in that area.
Speaker 2:With the girl I was going to go backup train because she was in the middle of her training. He told me about some of the circumstances regarding her trainer needing to go home early. It was just a really hard set of circumstances and, yeah, I felt really bad for both of them because it was just really difficult. So the reason they wanted me there is because I had finished my training and I also was nearby.
Speaker 2:But then I also and I think this is really like one of the big reasons Spanish came easy to me. I really believe that is because God needed me to be ready that early in the mission to go help out, because they needed a sister who was a native English speaker, because the girl I was going to go back up train, she was new and her native language was English and so they wanted to make sure that I could talk with her about stuff openly in a way that wouldn't be difficult for her. But they also needed somebody who could, you know, help her train in Spanish and, you know, navigate the area, because we're in Mexico, yeah, so I spent four weeks with her doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is amazing that you were able to just step right in there at just being out in the mission field for four weeks. Is that what you said? Like you were out for a month.
Speaker 2:I was out. No, thank heavens no. So I was with her for four weeks. Oh, okay, gotcha, I mean I was pretty, I guess you could say, pretty fresh out. So you have typically, at least back when I was a missionary it might be different now but you have like two transfers of six weeks, six weeks each where you're getting trained and then, um, so I had that which was 12 weeks, and then two weeks after that when I was in a trio following my training, if that makes sense. So 14 weeks in the mission field.
Speaker 1:Okay, but you were still really pretty new, pretty fresh yeah.
Speaker 2:I hadn't been senior companion or anything yet either. I was supposed to not only go do this, but I was training her. Thankfully, in my last area I had watched my trainer navigate me through opening area. I don't know if you're familiar with that, what that means, but basically, just like you go to an area and neither of you have been there before and neither of you really know it, you go to an area and neither of you have been there before and neither of you really know it. And while this companion I was going to have did know some of it, like I said her, her trainer had to go home early and it's because there was a lot of like difficult stuff she was facing. She was really burnt out and she needed some help. Um, so they kind of I don't know, they kind of had some stuff that they didn't quite get to. I guess. Basically, I ended up opening area in that area too. When I went to be with this companion, I wasn't like absolutely completely fresh, but it was like pretty much right out of training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would be pretty difficult but, like you said, the Lord prepared you. I think pretty difficult but, like you said, the Lord prepared you, I think, by having you know the language really well, which is amazing that I know. My son just really struggled with the language, so I mean it took him a good six months before he felt really comfortable.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Well, and I was going to say too I really feel like God knew I needed to have a language. That came easier to me because I struggled so much more mentally than I realized before I left on my mission. But I saw a lot of other people try and work like three times as hard as I did, so I really can't take credit for it. I think God needs everybody to go through a different experience and in my case he knew I needed that for that specific experience. I really feel for people who it was much harder for I watched them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tell me what it was like training this new missionary.
Speaker 2:It was definitely being like diving in headfirst to the deep end, but it was. It was, um. Basically I had the impression from the mission president as well as just like what I had understood before the mission is that, you know, one of the biggest priorities you have not just like, not just your missionary work and taking care of the area, it was also making sure that your opinion's okay and in this case, they really needed somebody there who could show up in that way and uh, make sure that, like my, like, my biggest job at that point was just to make sure that she made it through the rest of those few weeks and was able to like continue her mission to the end. Ironically, I ended up going home early, several months after that. We'll get to that part.
Speaker 2:But you know, we did our absolute best and I remember having some really, we had some really difficult moments, but a lot of it was just because we were just trying to figure things out and she, she and I are still close. I really I love her. I actually, like I've talked with her more recently Well, I guess it's been a couple of months, but I I kind of got back in contact with her, um not too long ago. Um, we talk every so often and, yeah, we both had the best of intentions, just doing our absolute best while we were out there, though we were both inexperienced.
Speaker 1:Aubrey, can you share with us maybe one experience that you had with her? That was really special.
Speaker 2:While I can't think of any specifics, I can think of just the feeling we had while we were together.
Speaker 2:I do remember some times when we were able to talk about some really difficult things together and just felt so close with her and felt so grateful that things had happened the way that they had happened because, like I think about it, and if I hadn't been in a trio, it would have been a lot more difficult to manage in that last area, because mission rules are, you know, you have two people at least in a companionship, and so I was able to leave that circumstance pretty, pretty fluidly.
Speaker 2:And then it made sense of why Spanish had come so easily to me and I felt really humbled by that, because it's just like that was nothing I did, I just showed up, and that was like one of the biggest things throughout the mission, not just with her that you come to realize as you serve a mission and I think this applies to so many other church callings too where it's just like you have those moments where it's like this is absolutely not me doing what's happening, Like I'm just here, I'm, I'm a vessel and um, and God is really taking over and making this happen. Um, I think you know. To sum it up I guess that's the biggest thing I took away from that experience with her is that somehow we made it, even though we were so new.
Speaker 1:I can totally agree with you on you know the Lord stepping in and just being there and kind of filling in the gaps where you know you don't feel like you're actually the one speaking or you know working. It's the Lord working through you and I just think that that is just so cool that you were there at the right place at the right time and were able to probably really help her through some difficult things. So let's just talk about your mission in general. What were some specific things that happened in your mission that were especially touching for you or maybe like turning points for you?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, in order to go into that, I have to give a little bit more context as well about what happened right after that. So, following that four-week transfer the shortened time I had with her I got this companion who I was really excited to have. I idolized her. I wanted to be just like her. She was a leader in our area. It seemed like she knew everything that she was doing and was really, really good at it, just being a missionary and a disciple of Christ. And so I wanted to do that and be like her and learn from her. I wanted to just take it all in so that I could be more efficient and effective.
Speaker 2:And then she came in and it was really hard to come to the terms with that. She wasn't anything like I expected. She tore me down a lot and it wasn't just, you know, because you have to. You know, in these kinds of situations you have to be able to take criticism and hear feedback and implement it, which, admittedly, I don't think I did as well back then. But a lot of what she said had happened was just like not true. She's like you've completely disregarded your area and I have to retrain you and, um, I don't want to focus too much on all of that because I don't want to like I don't want to make it seem like I'm angry with her or anything like that, but it's it's important context because that experience kind of made me dive down, pretty it.
Speaker 2:I went to a really dark place. She would tell me I needed to be more humble, that any struggles I had with insecurity which I had a ton of was automatically sinful, because she would say that it's like not letting the Lord in enough. And I mean I was doing my best to I'm sure that I didn't let Him in enough, because that's something we all struggle with. We all struggle with pride to a certain degree and in certain ways.
Speaker 2:But she was making it seem like it was something I was doing almost on purpose and it shook me to my core because I was doing my absolute best and though I really do feel like I needed maybe a bit more experience before I went into that training situation, I know that we had been giving it our all. So hearing that from her was really devastating. So the rest of the mission I spent trying to prove myself, not for her or anyone, I really just wanted. The whole point was to just do my best by God. I wanted to make Him proud and do what he needed me to do, because I knew I was there for a purpose and I wanted to share the gospel with everyone. It was really hard to come back from that, but there were definitely moments that kept me going.
Speaker 1:So how long were you with that companion?
Speaker 2:I was with her for six weeks, okay, and then I got to go train in another area. We were opening area again. It was a very difficult area too. It was a very difficult area too To give you a picture of what—there was very, very low morale in that area because some things had happened with prior missionaries in that area.
Speaker 2:I got to that area in our first lunch there, because that's in Mexico what they do here in the States we'll give missionaries dinners, but in there it's lunch, cause that's when everybody comes home Like it's so great to see and I kind of wish we had that here in the States where, like, husbands and kids will come home from work and school and they'll all get together. But yeah, so we got to I'm pretty sure it was like our first lunch there and they set our meal in front of us, like out on the patio, and then they went back inside to go eat with the rest of the family and I'm like, okay, that's how this is going to go, okay, so that was kind of we had our work cut out for us and there was also really low attendance. This is actually something I struggled. We struggled with a lot in all of my areas they actually had us not teach any lessons unless we had a member present thing, we didn't go tracting, and all of that was because they had had like a spike in baptisms, but then the overall attendance had completely took a nosedive. So they were trying to do their best to make sure that whoever did come in and get baptized was like really ready.
Speaker 2:But in that area, when I was training with that companion, um, in that new area, it was again another like being thrown into the deep end, but this time I was more ready and, uh, we um, just got our our feet on the ground and just started going and going and going. But unfortunately, at that point again, I had just really low morale Before my mission. More context is that when the Spirit would speak to me, he would kind of smack me up the side of the head. I would feel Him very strongly and have those, like you know, people talk about like the burning in the chest or like the like just crying and feeling like shaky and stuff.
Speaker 2:I got to the mission, though, and especially after that, the companion I had where she was just really abusive. When I went to that next area, I realized that like I was kind of a shell of a person at that point and the spirit didn't feel as close to me. For some reason I felt like I had jeopardized my exaltation, didn't know how, but like, especially because that companion had told me I needed to humble myself and that I was proud. I'm like, okay, maybe, like especially because that companion did told me I needed to humble myself and that I was proud. I'm like, okay, maybe that's, maybe that's the problem, I don't know, but I was going to make sure that I did everything I could and training with that companion was it's it's so interesting because I really enjoyed the missionary work and I don't think I was a bad missionary, but at the same time I was very caught up in my head about everything.
Speaker 2:It grew more and more difficult. So I trained her and then I had another trainee after that I guess I had. After I trained that companion, we had like a six week period where we were together just as companions and companions, and then I trained again, um, and that after that was when I uh had to leave the mission early.
Speaker 1:So Okay, aubrey, so tell me, kind of catch me up on the timeline how long had you been out at this point?
Speaker 2:At the point where I trained after um when when you left.
Speaker 2:yeah, when you left trained after, um, when, when you, when I left, yeah, when you left, um 14 months to the day actually, okay, um, the hardest decision I've ever had to make. And I also, like anybody who's gone through this kind of um, I guess it put a trigger warning on this episode because, um, I, just I, I, I didn't really realize what was going on, because I would, I would have what I thought were just like temptations, I guess, but like of hurting myself or like stepping out in front of a car, and that went on for months, but I didn't really realize that that was like, I don't know. I figured it was just like the adversary trying to give me a curve ball, but at the same time, I, like you know, was struggling a lot. I had highs and lows and what ended up happening was there was just this really difficult day where we found out somebody we were preparing for baptism wasn't going to be able to be baptized and it turned out it was something I needed to do better.
Speaker 2:I don't know exactly why to do better. I don't know exactly why, but that just broke me. That was like the point where I ended up having like a panic attack where I just couldn't leave bed and couldn't stop crying, and it was really difficult. I just felt again like I was kind of living in the mindset that I had jeopardized my exaltation and didn't know how. And then there was this, for me, what felt like an absolute massive failure because I, you know, this person wasn't going to be ready the way that we thought we were going to be ready. And I just felt so bad because I felt like I had done it wrong and for some reason that kind of just made me, I guess my body, just it was the last straw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that had to be really difficult, aubrey. So take us forward now, 10 years and looking back, well, we obviously know the adversary was involved in the situation, because those feelings don't come from the Lord.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So you left the mission you came home and then kind of all the pain you had to deal with, all that pain that you had been bottling up throughout your mission. So talk about that a little bit yeah.
Speaker 2:So, especially again from the mindset that I had of that I had already jeopardized my exaltation somehow. It felt like the ultimate failure to come home early, and I actually had had nightmares for I don't know how many months every night that I would end up coming home early, and so this was literally like my worst nightmare. Coming home was really difficult, because I really just wanted to be back out there. I figured my plan was you know, hey, I'm going to get the help I need, whatever is going on here. You know, apparently I need to talk with a therapist. I talked to I actually did talk with a therapist on the mission a few times, but I don't remember why we just stopped talking. I guess I thought I was okay. I didn't even realize what was going on that much until it just kind of all went down. But anywho, I got home and I figured I'm like I'm going to talk to a therapist, I'm going to get the help I need, and then I'm going to go straight back out, and I was going to do whatever it takes to get there. Um, and yeah, that did not happen, but, um, Looking back, that wasn't supposed to happen. It was really hard to let go of that, though. It's definitely an interesting experience to have to release control of what you're going through and especially of expectations you have, because you know it's everything I wanted and everything I couldn't have because I wasn't in a good place. But you know, looking back years later it all makes sense Like being on the mission at the exact time I was out and the circumstances I was in, because frankly, I think if I hadn't served my mission, I may have attempted to take my own life at some point. I really feel like I was the kind of naive and immature that wouldn't have handled this well if I hadn't been so protected.
Speaker 2:Before you go on the mission, you receive your endowment, and I also had a companion with me 24-7 who was just right there, and so that kind of helped with those thoughts a little bit. But I also just really felt the Lord carrying me in those moments, which is funny because again it felt like somehow I had completely jeopardized my exaltation. But then there would be these kind of like rainbow moments I guess you could call it, I don't know. We're just like, just enough to sustain me. And that became more and more the case after I came home from the mission where just I would need him desperately, in those moments where all I wanted to do is be back out in the mission.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I think I mentioned when we were talking about all of this before we started the podcast that I really felt like I was cradled. It was just the right amount of pressure for me to have to go through because my mission I had a lot of other difficult experiences in the mission on top of all those things and then just the mission experience itself physically exhausting, and then, yeah. So I guess just the right amount of pressure and just the right amount of like, just the right circumstances made it to where I was able to figure out what I needed, what I had always needed, Because I needed help so much earlier than I got it Growing up with all of those things that I struggled with without realizing what was going on you know, the ADHD, anxiety, depression it just made it to where, at some point, I would get the help I needed.
Speaker 1:That is so difficult going through things like that and being so far away from home too, and there's so many people that come home early from their mission for various reasons. But I think they all have that same feeling that you did, where you know your biggest goal is to go back on your mission, and I would say for the vast majority, they don't end up going back on their missions for whatever reason, but I think it's also part of God's plan. You know that he puts us in the right place at the right times, and we had talked earlier about you having like a focus shift. Can you talk about that a little bit, and when that happened?
Speaker 2:So I would say that focus shift isn't one specific moment, but it is something I constantly have to remind myself of doing, like just, I guess it kind of comes back to you know, the gospel is boiled down. The like steps of the gospel are faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism by immersion, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost and enduring to the end. And that involves your covenants and basically just like rinse, repeat. Even after you're baptized you go and take the sacrament and that's just like you're getting baptized all over again Anywho, but enduring to the end. It's the just kind of again just having to release expectations. And I don't know if I can really pinpoint the moment where that happened, where I kind of realized this just isn't gonna go the way I want it to. But I do remember what I do remember kind of helping was the church released a lot more resources around this time for people struggling with mental health, one in particular. I remember reading it. It was exactly what I was going through. I found it actually while I was preparing for this and you know what Is it okay if I let's see here I have to get to the right place here, but basically it was like somebody had been reading my diary. So the church has this really great resource called Life Help and they have this section on mental health source called Life Help and they have this section on like mental health. And underneath that section and the like help for me section, it's kind of like a question answer, kind of frequently asked questions, kind of things for mental health.
Speaker 2:And this one it says at times I have difficulty feeling the spirit because I feel numb. Does this mean I'm doing something wrong and have lost the Spirit? And that was like one of the biggest things I struggled with in the mission and that's why I felt like I had somehow jeopardized my exaltation because the Spirit wasn't nearly as loud anymore. And looking back, that isn't just a result of my mental health deteriorating, it's also. I feel like God knew that I needed more of like a stronger witness. I guess before I left on my mission he knew I needed like more guidance, more obvious guidance, more obvious guidance. But as you grow older and especially people who struggle with decision making, I feel like sometimes he lets you just kind of take the reins. He's like okay, you need to step out here, kind of the Peter walking on the water. He didn't hold his hand the whole time. He's like you can come and do this, so the spirit will kind of, depending on your circumstance, just maybe shift in how he speaks to you, but I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Reading the response to that and again I'm just reading here it says an inability to feel the Spirit or a general feeling of apathy or numbness is often a symptom of poor mental health. God has not forsaken you. Consider for a moment that the Spirit may be communicating with you in a different way than you have experienced before. When you struggle to feel the Spirit or to feel anything at all, try combining these suggestions with prayers. You are able Then it outlines, to counsel with others.
Speaker 2:Remember what you knew. Fill your home with light and check in with yourself, especially like where it talked about. Remember what you knew that really came in clutch, like I knew that I had those experiences before. I knew God had, like, made himself known to me. I knew that he was still there, even though at this point, what I was realizing is that I might just not be feeling him the same way. At this point, what I was realizing is that I might just not be feeling Him the same way, and while that was a difficult reality to cope with, it's much more normal than we talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that is so true. We have so much more in common than we think we do. We have so much more in common than we think we do. Mental health is such a prevalent issue, not just with missionaries that come home from their mission, I mean just in general, not just in the church, but outside the church too. Mental health is such a sensitive, prevalent issue in our society and we need to talk about it more, and so I love conversations like this, where we're able to talk about it openly and speak to some of the things that are happening and how and so let's just speak to that, aubrey how, how are you now, and how have you been able to overcome some of those things that you went through on the mission?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. I'm still talking about these kind of things in therapy and I hate saying that because again some people might see that as like you're just not over it, but some things just stick. But what I'm learning is that it's okay as far as mental health goes. A big thing that helped me out years ago, hearing from a therapist, is that when we experience an emotion, it's just a physiological response to an internal or external stimuli and, whether or not it's even based in reality, it's what your body is experiencing. It's telling you, hey, something's up. This is what it means.
Speaker 2:Even anger actually that was one of the most interesting things I took away is that it's just like you experiencing pain, having a boundary violated or a goal blocked, and when I heard that, I'm like, oh okay, so it's obviously like what you do with those emotions can make a difference. We hear about that a lot, I think across the pulpit. But I think it's perfectly normal for people to experience what's happening around them and it shouldn't be stigmatized. And I think it's perfectly normal for people to experience what's happening around them and it shouldn't be stigmatized. And I think when we talk about anger in the church especially, we need to remember that we have these bodies for a reason, and listening to what's going on isn't a sin, but just what we choose to do with what's going on is way more important than what actually happens, because in my case, I'm just much more prone to feeling anxious about everything.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because we were talking about our kind of pre-conversation that we had.
Speaker 1:We talked about Alma the Younger in the Book of Mormon, and we both. I love the story of Alma the Younger too. He's my favorite character, I guess you could call him in the Book of Mormon, and probably because I relate with a lot of what he went through. But it was interesting because I went back after we had talked and do you mind if I share? Yeah, go for it, I got it out too. Okay, you can share with me the parts that you liked, but one, one of the parts that I like when he and there's a couple of parts in this. This is chapter 26.
Speaker 1:Things will hit me at different times, but one of the things that I noticed in let's see 26, verse 15, it says, yea, they were encircled about with everlasting darkness and destruction, but behold, he has brought them into his everlasting light, yea, into everlasting salvation. And they are encircled about with everlasting darkness and destruction, but behold, he has brought them into His everlasting light, yea, into everlasting salvation. And they are encircled about with the matchless bounty of His love, yea. And we have been instruments in His hands of doing His great and marvelous work. And I just loved that part of that, how it described the everlasting darkness, because that's kind of how people with depression feel, and I had made a note in there that this is kind of how mental illness is like. This is what people feel like that it's this everlasting darkness. When he says he, he's brought them into the light, I just love that so much.
Speaker 1:And then there's another one that I caught at another time when I was studying that says let's see, it's verse 7. It says but behold, they are in the hands of the Lord of the harvest, and they are His, and he will raise them up at the last day. Blessed be the name of our God. Let us sing to His praise, yea. Let us give thanks to His holy name for he doth work righteousness forever. Let us give thanks to His holy name for he doth work righteousness forever. And I just love that because it just made me feel like, you know, when I was struggling with still struggle with mental issues, it just made me feel like I'm His. You know he's got me. And so it's just kind of become like a scripture that I fall back on because I know that he's got me no matter what. So what did you? What is something from that?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and I love that verse I'm so glad you read that that they're in the hands of the Lord. It's interesting too, the Lord of the harvest, and that's a good reminder for people struggling with mental health too, and missionaries, because you don't get to control what the outcome is really. I think sometimes we think that we have too much control over our lives than we actually do. We just don't. But the lord is the lord of the harvest and, like, whatever happens is his will, if we are just doing what we can. But yeah, so what had caught my eye like I I think about this occasionally, especially with that um In my head, just like thinking about like godly guilt versus worldly shame is Alma 36. So in this account, alma's talking with his sons about his experience, about his conversion experience, and I felt I remember a while back reading this and being like, oh my gosh, this is exactly what I think we need to talk about more often, because you know they were visited by an angel basically telling them hey, this is really awful, can you stop it? Like what you're doing? Because they were trying to lead people away from Jesus and there were a lot of people fasting and praying that that wouldn't happen anymore. So an angel responded and said yeah, you know what, it's time that they stop.
Speaker 2:So he goes and visits Alma and the sons of Hosein, and then they all have their experience there, and then Alma's gone like out for a few days. I don't know if we would—I wonder if medically they'd call it a coma. I don't know. Yeah, so he says he fell to the earth and it was three days and three nights where he couldn't open his mouth or use his limbs. The verbiage here is, for me, what I I really relate to. It says I was racked with the eternal torment, for my soul was harrowed up to the greatest degree and racked with all my sins, and he talks about just feeling tormented with the, as he says, the pains of hell man. He even says that he wished he could be banished and become extinct which is that's really, yeah, that's pretty deep, very deep.
Speaker 2:And then, after that, though, what really catches my eye is not just that he went through that. He says that he was wracked with torment, heralded by his sins. And then here's where that focus shift happens in this account. I'll just read it Behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one, jesus Christ, a son of God, to atone for the sins of the world. And then this is like what really caught my eye, like he's in the middle of this anguish and he thinks about Jesus. And it says now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, the thought of Jesus, I cried within my heart oh Jesus, thou son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death. And then he says and now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pain no more. Yeah, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more. And oh, what joy and what marvelous light did I behold? Yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain. And then he says that there could be nothing so exquisite and bitter as his pains were, but that, on the other hand, there could be nothing so exquisite and sweet as was his joy.
Speaker 2:The truth is that the adversary doesn't want us to feel capable or loved. He doesn't want us to feel like, if we mess up, he wants us to feel like that's the end and there's no way to come back. And I think, for a variety of reasons, I'm fairly susceptible to that kind of thinking. But God doesn't want us to feel that. He wants us to feel the potential that he knows we have as divine sons and daughters of God, especially as we make covenants with Him. He promises access to His power as long as we need it, in every moment of every day, as long as we just do our best. And so, like I wish I looked this up, but like the scripture talking about I think it's in the New Testament about like basically like godly guilt versus worldly shame Shame will invite us to give up, or to like focus on the wrong things, like if I can just make up for it, if I can just do better, whereas like just realizing that God is on our side, we can always come back from whatever it is, as soon as we look at him.
Speaker 2:That's, that's, for me, one of the biggest reasons. I love that, that specific way he talked about what he went through, that it's like as soon as he caught onto that thought he couldn't even remember what he was going through. He couldn't even remember the pain. And I'm not saying that everybody's experience is going to be exactly like that. I don't. I don't know, but in my case at least I've. I've definitely had moments like that, um, where I have that peace that defies understanding, the peace that passes understanding. I think that's from Philippians four. You know, just it doesn't make sense, it shouldn't make sense, but then it's there and it yeah, just kind of yeah, I think that's just how the hand of God works.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to look back and just realize how he's always in the details and he always knows, um, what we're going through and where we're at and how to help us, and a lot of times it is us just needing to be like Peter and reach out our hand to him. You know and this has been such a good conversation, Aubrey, with you I appreciate you so much. Is there anything that you would, any advice that you would give to, maybe, um, somebody who's going through an experience like this? What would your advice or counsel be to them?
Speaker 2:When you feel like you're at the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on, because I mean, I've been in recovery from my life before the mission and life during the mission for like 10 years now and I can honestly say like while I've come a long way, I still have a long way ahead of me. I usually have found over the course of this time that if you ask God what he thinks of you, he's going to tell you. A lot of times it's come much quicker than I would realize. I've had so many moments where that's happened, where I'm like are you still there, do you still love me? And then he'll say yes, and remind me that I'm his daughter and that, no matter what's happening, I can get through it.
Speaker 2:As far as, like you said, what I would give to missionaries going out one of the biggest things I can think of I remember this, actually while I was in the car on my way here.
Speaker 2:We got this bookmark while I was out on the mission. Faith is the power, obedience is the price, love is the motive, the spirit is the key and then Christ is the reason. So I think that is fairly succinctly how I would help people know what's most important and especially like love. We were actually just talking in church today about charity, and the moments where I felt the most capable on the mission and really felt God the closest were when I was remembering the love I have for Him and the love I have for the gospel and the love he has for me and everyone around us and the love I have for him and the love I have for the gospel and the love he has for me and everyone around us and the love I have for those people. And while I really really struggled with a lot of different things on my mission, I really loved the work and I really loved the people and I miss them. Yeah, just love God, love others and love yourself. It's hard to do all of those things, sometimes Great.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, aub. Even you know just people. In general, those words are very helpful to just keep us looking forward. I think that's the biggest thing is we just need to keep looking forward and not back and not let Satan get in our heads and keep us from looking toward the light. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you, and that's all for today. Thank you, my friends, for listening and we will talk to you all again soon.