Pointing Toward Hope
Pointing toward hope is for anyone who struggles to find hope in their trials. In each episode, we will have conversations with myself and others, to help you overcome difficulties in your life through applying the atonement of Jesus Christ. We will laugh, cry and learn together how to push through the hard times in your life, and move toward a more abundant way of living. Consider yourself invited to join me on this journey toward a more hopeful joyous life.
If you or someone you know has a trial that you have been able to get through with the help of our Savior, please contact me so we can get you on the podcast.
Pointing Toward Hope
Mental Health and Divine Connection: Kristen Kartchner's Journey
What happens when God asks, "Do you love me with your heart, mind, and strength?" For Kristen Karchner, this question sparked a transformative spiritual journey that reshaped her relationship with mental health and divine connection.
For anyone struggling with mental health challenges or feeling disconnected from God, Kristen's story offers a refreshing approach focused on stillness, asking questions, and taking the smallest possible steps forward. Her journey reminds us that God crafts unique spiritual paths for each of us, meeting us exactly where we are with endless patience and love.
Hi, friends, and welcome to the Pointing Toward Hope podcast. I am your host, wendy Bertagnoli. This podcast is filled with positivity for anyone seeking to find more hope and joy in daily life. The goal is to reach as many people as possible that are struggling to fill and keep the light of Christ in their life. That pretty much covers all of us, right. We have conversations of strength through adversity and what it means to truly surrender yourself to the Lord. If you or someone you know has a trial that you've been able to get through or are working through with the help of our Savior, please contact me so we can get you on the podcast. This is episode 81, and I have here with me my new friend, kristen Karchner. Welcome, kristen. Hi, welcome to that. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. I'm so excited to share your story. Can you just kind of tell us just a little bit about yourself to start out, and maybe a fun fact about you that people would be surprised to know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd love to. Let's start with a fun fact and get things going. I'm a little nervous, but one of the things that I like to tell people that when I'm introducing myself is I don't really like bacon, because it surprises everybody, and so. But a little bit about me. I am a seeker of truth and so I love, love, love learning, and I've spent my life learning things new, so I feel like I'm a jack of all trades, a master of none, because I love learning new hobbies, new instruments, I just love learning, and so, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how I am too. I love learning and I always have like new crafts or new projects happening and it's just so fun to just learn new things, so I love that. So, to get started today, the reason that I started this podcast originally was because I was diagnosed with a mental illness. I have bipolar 2. And so I wanted to kind of create awareness around that and that's why I started the podcast originally, and then it has just kind of blossomed from there. But you had a little bit of a similar experience where you were diagnosed with a mental illness, had a little bit of a similar experience where you were diagnosed with a mental illness. Can you just tell us a little bit about that and maybe how you have learned to cope with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I was just after I graduated high school. I had gone, my parents had moved and a lot of things had happened in my life and so I went back to college. I didn't really have a landing place and so being away from my family and things is hard in the first place, and then just having so much change, I fell into a depression and I didn't know what it was. It took me several years to to learn what that was and I had people kind of eventually point it out to me and I was diagnosed by let's see what year was it Around 2008.
Speaker 1:Around 2008, and and the first moment that I was informed that I might have it was kind of shocking for me because I had lived on with this idea that I was a good person and because I'm a good person, nothing bad should happen to me and nothing wrong should happen to me. And I don't know where I picked it up, but I must have picked up that idea through experiences that I had. And so I did go seek help and I went to my employment, had an employee assistant program, so it was a super simple way of of getting a therapist and it was straightforward and I was grateful for that, because I was kind of in denial.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I remember, yeah, yeah, I think that's really normal to be kind of in denial with a, with any kind of diagnosis. Really, you know, that's a natural, normal feeling and that's great that you had someplace to go immediately. I, I really think that's valuable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm I'm very grateful for it, because I know when you're in that space, when it's it's really dark and confusing and you don't have much energy, you don't have much focus. Dark and confusing and you don't have much energy, you don't have much focus. It's. It's. The easier it is for me, the more likely I am to do it, and that's kind of the pattern through each diagnosis and each time I slunk is I try to find like the simplest step that would move me forward.
Speaker 1:And so the first time I didn't want to go to therapy. I almost turned around several times because it was a commute, but I started seeing a therapist and they started opening my eyes and I began growing and understanding. But I was very, very new. And then, you know, as I, as I felt better and I got on medication, I decided it was a good time to go on a mission and it was around that time period. So I went and then I realized I didn't have the tools that I truly needed to really function, and so my mission was good in some aspects and very hard in others, and I struggled a lot there and I had some very, very difficult experiences that did change who I was and how I view life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, life yeah, so can you share some?
Speaker 1:of those experiences, or is there a specific one that you can share? There's two, especially in this early stages for me. I wondered my value. I wondered my value and so there was a point in my mission. It was nearing the end, I had been diagnosed with gallstones and just had gone through surgery to get it removed. And so in my mind and I was also depressed, and in my mind I was a problem child for my mission president and I wasn't feeling really great about myself and wondered why I was God's missionary, like why am I going through this? Like why is this so hard?
Speaker 1:And we had what we call the mission tour and essentially it was how the mission would get together and give it an area. 70 or 70 come and do a training for us. And so the 70 king and he's giving us, he's teaching us, and at one point he asked for a missionary companionship as volunteers. And the next thing I know my, my arm's up in the air and I'm like why is my arm the air? And I look at my companion because I didn't ask her if she wanted to do it. She's looking at me, like why are you doing? And I was like I don't know. But he called on us and he's like sisters, come up. And so we came up and he was talking about reaching the need of the people that we're teaching and seeing the needs. And so he's like sisters, can you please teach me? The first discussion.
Speaker 1:And in my missionary brain I'm like great role play, my favorite, which is hugely sarcastic. I didn't like role playing but it's like all right switching to role playing mode. So I went into like God's our loving heavenly father and we're his children and he has a plan for us. And in the missionary discussions, and and the the 70s stopped. And he's like sister, sister, stop. He's like how about, let's do this? You switch me and I'm going to teach you.
Speaker 1:And so he, he switched me and he began teaching me and he's like said I am a beloved son of God, I know that he is real and I know he loves me and because I know this truth, I know that you are a daughter of God. And when he said those words, I felt that I felt the power of God's love envelop me and I burst down into tears right in front of the whole mission. But I didn't really care because I was feeling so much Like everything that I had doubted and wondered about myself, was just really sure. It's like Christa, here, I'm with you. It's hard, but know that I'm aware and it was the first time that I felt God's love for me, truly remembered what it felt like and thought that that shifted something inside me, like I'm not alone and he's aware, and that was a massive turning point in my understanding and my belief in God and who he was like. I've always believed in him, but that experience really showed me how personal he is. Yeah, that's really showed me how personal he is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really remarkable.
Speaker 1:I love that. So the the other experience that was not as great is I. I had a difficult companionship at the very end and I was to the point where I I was again severely depressed, wasn't reaching out to my resources. I did have a therapist who was on medication, but that was hard. There were times where I needed to sleep. I was just exhausted and worn out and weary mentally and so I wasn't as proactive.
Speaker 1:My mission president and told him that I don't know actually what she told him. All I know is that he talked to me and he was very unkind and it was devastating for someone, for me at that point, because I was already also hurting and severely depressed, and that actually shut me down and I never knew if I was feeling nothing. But at that point I went into total apathy. It's like, yep, you've confirmed all of my thoughts Like I'm a bad person, I'm not a good missionary, and just confirmed those depressed feelings that we get and so the thoughts that we tell ourselves. It was that confirmation that they were true and that was devastating for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's just interesting. Yeah, that's really interesting, just that you've had that incredible experience. And then you know, know, I think that satan comes in and says, oh no, we can't have that, you know. And just the opposition comes in and wants to destroy everything that you've built and the feelings that you've built about yourself exactly like he seeks to just destroy our peace and he seeks to make us like him.
Speaker 1:And so if he likes to go in those cracks where we have those, those I sometimes say cracks in our foundation, and he likes to seek them out, and then he likes to exploit them. And the beautiful thing about that, as I've learned through my experiences and especially the recent years, is I can flip how I think about those weaknesses and cracks. So, instead of the weaknesses I can, I can be like oh, he just alerted me to something that I'm not good at, he just learned to me some, some thoughts that are not in line with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And so, being able to flip my thoughts around it, instead of like, oh, I screwed up again, it's like, oh, hey, I just got an alert that this is off, so it's an opportunity for me to instead to be like I can turn that over to God and say, hey, I've noticed this thing and I'm going into these patterns, and then so that weakness that was exploited can be now turned into a strength.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. I love that. I love that way of thinking.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting that I've looked through the rest of my life and the mental health. There are peaks and hinge points. So my mission was very hard. The next stage, through a lot of healing.
Speaker 1:After my mission I went up to BYU Idaho and I noticed a pattern in my study that it's like I'd read something in the next minute. I'm across the room fiddling with something. I'm like why am I over here? And and it's like I'm studying, it's like I need to read this. And the next thing I know I'm over. Why am I over here? And it's like I'm studying, it's like I need to read this. And the next thing I know I'm over across the kitchen doing something and I'm like what is going on? Like why can't I focus? And so I went into the student center and was like asking about it. And they're like I mean, you think you have ADHD and you should get tested. And so I got tested and I was diagnosed with ADHD. But it was hard because they kind of got a mild ADHD and that was it. And I was like that's it. And so it was that combination of understanding that I had depression and then diagnosis of depression and that diagnosis of depression is actually linked to social anxiety. And then I've got ADHD and I've learned that they're all. They tend to link with each other. If you've got one, it's highly likely you have the others and they all kind of feed off each other. And so I then worked with a therapist at BYU-Idaho and she was very good for me. She introduced me to several researchers in the field of vulnerability. So Brene Brown was really pivotal for me in understanding her research of vulnerability with myself and that also translated to my vulnerability as God. And so I had my ups and downs there.
Speaker 1:And then once I graduated from BYU-Idaho, I had moved down to Salt Lake and had decided not to do the thing that I graduated in, which was a very difficult decision for me, but I had decided that I didn't like what is a very difficult decision for me. But I had decided that I didn't like what I was becoming in that profession and so I chose something else and so I got a job in the medical field. I had a medical license, so I got a job there and with that job and the stresses there and things going on in my life, something again surfaced and I was noticing that the behavior pattern again, where I would go to, I'd go eat out or I'd go to like the lingualongers at church, and I know I noticed I'd hover around food and I would obsess around it and and, and I had weird behaviors around it and so, again, I didn't know what to do and so I went back into the employee assistant program to talk to someone who has better knowledge than me about mental health. And when I talked with them, they're like you've got a mild eating disorder. And I was like there's a scale. And they're like, yeah, there's a scale. We talk about the big ones anorexia and bulimia, but there's others on this scale, and that just never crossed my mind. Yeah, and and again, I was in the bouts of anxiety, depression, depression, adhd, all this stuff too.
Speaker 1:And one thing I had learned through my in and out of therapy is that not all therapists are created equal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I knew how important it was to get a therapist that you could talk to and you could trust, and I was kind of at a crisis point and I tend to do this, and so when I get to these points, it's like I need a therapist. I needed them yesterday, and so it's like I don't know if I can afford to shop around for a therapist, and so this is where I always turn to God, because I'm like God, this is I'm sorry, I'm here again. I'm sorry, I'm here again, but I need help and I need to find someone who's going to know how to help me. And I always and he's blessed me, especially this time. This felt like a very critical point and he just kind of nudged me forward Like it's okay, just go, and whoever is available is going to be the one that you're going to need. And so I got some referrals from the current therapist who didn't have the licensing in the background of what I needed, but she gave me the people that did.
Speaker 2:And so I called around, and the first one available ended up being my therapist for the next six or seven years, and I know God put me in that place. So yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome so he was actually part of my changing for the better and I would say he had a really huge impact. He's a member of the church, but he introduced me to the Arbinger Institute and one of their books that a lot of people are familiar with is called the anatomy of peace, and he was a part of that, that group. He was friends with the guy that kind of wrote it and his name is Terry Warner, and so a lot of my therapist's philosophy came from this book and from these ideas. But the idea is that you can view the world in two ways you can view it from an inward perspective or you can view it in the outward-facing perspective. And it took me years to understand this concept and and that's the other thing, I think the thing of hope as we go through these processes is that sometimes we come across information that we just don't understand. We know it's good and we know it's right, but it's just some, for some reason, can't comprehend it. And I felt like that a lot, where it's like my therapist would introduce an idea to me and then he'd repeat it and repeat it and I was like I know what you're trying to say, but I just don't get it. But as I had the desire to learn it and the desire to heal and the desire to change, it eventually distilled upon my soul and I eventually started understanding and comprehending and changing. And it was part of that willingness to step into that space Like I don't know, but I want to, and so that understanding kept me moving.
Speaker 1:The other thing that he taught me that's been really pivotal in my life, especially around that time when you know you get so overwhelmed by these dark feelings or just life in general. He, he kept repeating this phrase it's like what is the smallest thing you can do today? What is the smallest thing you can do to take a step forward? What's the smallest thing you can do to move in a direction. And he taught me how to take these giant, what I thought was a giant thing, and think about it in small steps. And that phrase has helped me move forward.
Speaker 1:And especially in the darkest, when I'm like I can't move, I am tired, I am weary, I can't see my hand in front of me, I don't know where to go and it's like, but it's like, kristen, what's the smallest thing you do? And some days it was like I can get up and I can feed myself, or it's like it's you can you can make it as small as you want and that gave me a lot of help and a lot of hope. And it reminded me of God's, the scripture of the line upon line. He never says how big the line has to be, he just wants something. And that just reminded me that in my progression I don't have to take leaps and bounds, I just have to do a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point, I think, because we do feel like we, you know, we look at other people and we look around us and we think, oh, we have to be this way or we have to be that way, and we don't realize that the Lord doesn't expect that of us. The Lord just expects us, like you said, just one little step at a time, one little move at a time. I love that so much. Thank you for sharing that Exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly so after. So I saw this therapist for about eight years and there had been ups and downs, there had been, I mean, crisis points where I attempted suicide, so so many things and so many things that I was taught. But it came to a point, to where I got to a point where I felt pretty good God, and through therapy and through medication and study, I got to a point where I'm like I think I can try this on my own. So I stopped seeing my therapist and I was at a job that was really good for a while. I had a really good mentor and he left and someone else came in. So there's a, a new manager came in. I again was struggling at the time.
Speaker 1:Some anxiety and depression has crept in again and I was. I was working in a manufacturing field and that can be a rough environment and I was. I was feeling a lot of field and that can be a rough environment, and I was feeling a lot of negativity and things around me and I just wanted to change jobs and I wanted to. I was feeling burnt out and so again trying to look for jobs and nothing came up. I didn't feel right about it and I had a family member say, kristen, maybe you just need to quit your job and not get another one. And that just lit up inside me. It's like I can do that.
Speaker 1:And and I had been following, trying to follow the counsel of God, and he told me to get completely out of debt the year before, and so I was debt free. I had just the living obligations of food and cell phone and things like that. So I quit my job and I slept for quite a while. I didn't realize how burnt out I was. And as I began thinking about my life and things, I began seeing patterns If I choose something and I do it and I get burnt out and I'd fall into depression and I'd fall into anxiety, and I and and I looked at my life going forward and it's like I really don't want to keep repeating these patterns. And so I I turned to God, and I've always turned to Him as often as I could in the best way that I knew how, and sometimes it wasn't the best, but it's what I knew.
Speaker 1:And so this time around I turned to God and he asked me a question and he told out a scripture. And he asked me a question and he told out a scripture and he asked me Kristen, do you love me? And he said do you know how to love me with your heart, mind, strength? And I sat there and I was like, I love you, but I don't know how to know. I don't know how to love you with my heart, mind and strength. And he's like, would I don't know how to know? I don't know how to love you with my heart, mind and strength. And he's like would you like to know? And I said yes, and he's like, great, I'll teach you. And so that's what I've done. The last year and a half of my life is I quit my job and I have been trying to learn what God meant and what he's asking of us to love him with our heart, mind and strength.
Speaker 2:And and it's been an incredible journey- Tell me, kristen, what that looks like, what is a day like for you?
Speaker 1:well, at the beginning of this whole journey, christ and God were trying to teach me a lesson of stillness, and so a lot of it was like Kristen, just sit. And I was like what, what do you mean sit? Like, sit, sit, what do you mean by sitting? And they just say sit, and I was like I don't know what you mean by that. So sometimes I took it literally where I just I just sat, and I sat without distractions, I sat without my phone, I sat without you know, reading a book, I just sat and and it was almost like you taught me how to sit with my thoughts and how to sit with who I was, and so there was a lot of that and there was a lot of me being like I can't do this, I'm gonna go do this other thing, and then the next day I'd be like this reminder of Kristen. Then you just said, like what do you mean by that? And asking these questions.
Speaker 1:But what I learned from that was that God works in stillness, like the still small voice is still for a reason, and that we need to learn stillness inside, because that's where we're the chaos ensues from. That's where I I have learned through this process that our thoughts are so powerful and that when we are chaos inside, we cannot hear the word of god, we cannot feel his spirit as clearly. And so he taught me that how, when we calm ourselves and when we can be with ourselves, is when he can enter in more fully and begin changing us. And so I spent a lot of time sitting because I'm stubborn and I just didn't know how. Yeah, and this, this world, is so full of distractions that that cut into that stillness, um yeah. Actions that that cut into that stillness, um, yeah. And so that that was the first part of it. Let's begin. And it was also part of it was me just starting to explore, okay, how do you work with god on a very intimate and deep level? And so he began teaching me about the word, all what he means by all. And he took me to President Nielsen's talks, and they're amazing If you want to come to know God. President Nielsen has given us so many hints on what we need to do to know him as a person. And so there was one point where I got this inspiration. Like Kristen, I need you to print off all of President Nelson's talks, since he's the prophet, and I want you to read through them. And then it's like and then he gave me parameters of what to look for and he said I need you to look for promises, blessings, warnings and then anything that stands out for you. And so I read through them all and what came out to me is president nelson is trying to teach us how to have a relationship with god, and that's essentially.
Speaker 1:When someone gave me a years ago, I listened to someone. I couldn't find it, but we talked about what the word righteousness means and sometimes we do think about righteousness as just right works and right to follow the commandments, doing your scripture study, stuff like that, and that's part of it. But if you want to go down to the deep core of it, righteousness is all about having right relationships, so a right relationship with yourself, with others, with god, and we find out and we get defined by that relationship. God defines what a right relationship is and that's a relationship full of charity and hope and gratitude and faith and and kindness and things like that. And so god, through this process, began teaching me how to have better relationships and healing my heart of this turmoil of depression, anxiety and the ADHD, and teaching me that it centered around my thoughts and what I understood, and so part of this process was me getting to the scriptures and asking questions about. It was like god, what do you mean by all and? And he taught me what he meant by all and, and he taught me so that another interesting thing that kind of shaped my direction and what I did is he talked about.
Speaker 1:In the Doctrine and Covenants we have the house of order, house of prayer, house of learning, house of God, and I thought about the idea of the house of order and what I had made it like. What I understood of it was how to organize, how to clean house. No, and it was more on an organizational basis, right. But as I sat with him thinking about this, he's like Kristen, let me give you another thought about what order is. He's like what are the order of the commandments, the 10 commandments?
Speaker 1:And I was like okay, well, I know this. Like first one love God. Second one love your neighbor. Third one well, love your neighbor as yourself. And he's like great, stop, that, you don't need to go any further. He's like what is the order of that? I was like, oh, god is first, that's the order you're talking to me about. So then he's like Kristen and when they took me to the top things celestial and President Nelson stated in that, saying anything that you put before God is an idol, and it kind of was a slap in the face of like he didn't say this thing or that thing, he said anything. So there are times where I put my thoughts before God, there are times that I put distractions, or you know my hobbies, there's just things that I put um destructions, or or you know my hobbies, there's just things that I just put before God and and so he's right, we do, and it's a very natural thing to do.
Speaker 1:And so he asked me he's like, christine, I want you to hunt down everything you put before me. And I was like, oh, okay. And so it was a little bit overwhelming, but I was like, okay, I'm going to do my best. And through this whole process, he's always promised to walk with us. And so he did. He walked me through, he'd enlightened my mind with things that I needed to look at. He'd walk me through, he'd enlighten my mind with things that I needed to look at. And then he'd walk me through the process of how to get through it, how to understand it, how to let it go.
Speaker 1:And so this whole process, and the day of doing this, is essentially learning how to understand how God speaks with you on a personal level. And that starts with, if you don't know, you ask him, say, god, I don't know how to hear you, I don't know how you speak to me, I don't know if it's me or you. There's so many questions that come up with it. But the best thing is, he loves being asked to help. So it's like God, I don't know how to hear you, but would you teach me and he loves that space, and so a lot of my days started with that. It's like God, I'm struggling with this. Would you teach me about it? How do you view it? I know lots of ways, how science views it, I know how I've been taught it, but is this how you view it? And sometimes it's like yes, and sometimes he was like no. This is how I see it, and so, through this process and through really learning how to step in that space where God is, first altered who I was and what I thought and who I am, and I can say that the darkness and the depression and the anxiety and the ADHD is manageable now, and I'm not even a meds or seeing a therapist, and I only know that because God has taught me.
Speaker 1:Because God has taught me, and the beautiful thing about my journey is that it was so uniquely crafted to me through my experiences and my understanding, and what I love about that is it teaches me that other people have a handcrafted journey and the more that we invite God into it and the more that we let him be a part of it will blossom into this beautiful path. It's not easy, but it is beautiful and it's joyful, and that's one thing that I have sought for my whole life is I'd ask these questions of you. Know, I'm doing the things, god. I am going to church and I'm saying my prayers. And I'm doing the things, god.
Speaker 1:I am going to church and I'm saying my prayers and I'm trying to do my visiting, teaching at the time or ministering, and I'm trying to do all these things and I am dark and I am miserable and I would call it my black hole. That would suck everything dry and I would wonder. It's like you promised joy and you promised happiness. What am I doing? Doing wrong? What's wrong with me? He has now taught me why I was there and why I'm here, and he has shown me what that joy looks like, and it really the joy is just having a relationship with Him and seeking for one. Yeah, I love that, and he just wants those little steps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that so much and such a good exercise to take all of President Nelson's talks and go through that process that you went through. I think about that and I'm like, oh, I want to do that. That sounds like such a good start for somebody who is really struggling with their relationship with the Lord.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's been insightful, and I was even looking through some of my notes from it today and realizing that he's given us so many keys and so many blessings in it. And it reminded me of, like, one thing he's been teaching me recently is that when we step into a place of fear, it's because we have faith in the wrong thing that we have more faith in the painful outcome than we do in the promised blessings of god. Wow, and so that's powerful. Yeah, and it was. It kind of rocked my world a little bit, being like, oh, I don't this, oh that was hard for me. Yeah, but he did it in such a tender way of, like Kristen, let me show you this. And now I'm like, well, thank you for letting me know. And so it's like I can choose to have faith in the fear or I can have faith in those promised blessings. And those talks of President Nelson are riddled with blessings, like blessings of power, blessings of revelation, blessings of insight, and we are all God's children, so we all have access to them, and that's powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really powerful. Thank you for sharing that Just in closing. I think you've done a beautiful job of describing how we can come closer to our Lord and Savior and develop relationship with Him. On this moment, on this last year and a half that you have really walked with the Lord, what have you learned about hope?
Speaker 1:That's such a good question. Hope is powerful, but hope is a tender mercy from God. I was thinking about an experience, especially when I was in the darkest depressions. There were some nights where I'm like God, will you just take me home for tonight, can I just dwell with you tonight? And it was just being able to try to touch eternity every once in a while, giving you the strength and the hope to keep going.
Speaker 1:And and so, through prayer and through those little things, those little brushes with god, gives us the strength and the power to keep going one more day, and that that hope does become brighter and brighter as we turn to christ and we seek for his, his guidance and care and his love. He just wants to love us. And that brings me hope, because sometimes I felt that I'm not lovable and and that, you know, these small, simple things do bring to pass great things in our personal lives, not even the world, but within us, and that god is willing to come where we're at, and and I've been led by that, and that keeps me going and keeps me having hope that my day will be better, my life will be better.
Speaker 2:I love that. Thank you so much, Kristen, for sharing your story. It's amazing and I know it's going to touch a lot of lives, so thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate it you for having me.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate it. Kristen's story is such a testament to the way the Lord works in us and with us. He is always, always there. Even when we can't feel Him, he's still there, working His miracles. We all need each other, especially in our darkest hours. We are the Lord's hands. So, as you're thinking about your relationship with the Lord today, I hope that you will take some of the things that Kristen talked about and implement them into your daily practice of becoming closer to the Lord and also just thinking about being the hands of the Lord. I am asking you that you will take the time today to reach out to someone that you haven't talked to in a little while. It might just be the thing that picks them up and gets them through the day. That's it for today. Thanks for listening, and be sure to follow and leave a review so that we can reach as many people as possible. Have a great week everyone.