Directed IRA Podcast

The Hidden Secrets About HSAs That Will Blow Your Mind

• Mat Sorensen and Mark Kohler

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In this episode of the Directed IRA Podcast, Mat Sorensen and Mark Kohler unpack one of the most overlooked yet powerful tax-advantaged accounts available—the Health Savings Account (HSA). Often dismissed as a simple medical savings tool, the HSA actually offers a triple tax benefit: tax deductions for contributions, tax-free growth, and tax-free withdrawals for qualified medical expenses—at any age.

Mat and Mark explain how to qualify for and fund an HSA, the contribution limits for 2025 (including catch-up contributions), and why they rank the HSA alongside the Roth IRA as a top wealth-building priority. They also reveal how you can invest your HSA beyond savings accounts and mutual funds, using a self-directed HSA to buy assets like real estate, crypto, livestock, and private investments—keeping all gains in the account tax-free.

Through real-life examples, including ranch cattle investments and rental properties, they illustrate how creative investors are compounding returns inside their HSAs for future medical costs. They also discuss strategic withdrawal planning—why delaying reimbursements can supercharge your tax-free compounding—and review what qualifies as a medical expense under IRS rules, from dental work and prescription drugs to service animals and long-term care premiums.

If you’ve ever thought an HSA was just for paying your doctor bills, this episode will change your perspective and show you how to turn it into a dynamic, tax-free wealth-building vehicle.

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Mat Sorensen: https://matsorensen.com & https://linktr.ee/MatSorensen
KKOS: https://kkoslawyers.com
Main Street Business https://mainstreetbusiness.com



Speaker 1:

Welcome everybody to another episode of the Directed IRA podcast. My name is Mark Kohler aka for today's show, John Dutton, and I'm here with Matt Sorensen, the amazing CEO of Directed IRA and the author of the Directed IRA Handbook, and I'm just going to leave it out there as a teaser why we're talking about John Dutton and Yellowstone, because this topic is about HSAs and you don't even know the hidden benefit yet. It's going to blow your mind.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, if you want to own cows in your HSA, maybe you could do that. I'm just saying maybe you could do that. We'll get to that. So we want to talk about the health savings account. I know you might be like that's not very exciting, guys. This is an incredible tax strategy. It's a way to save on taxes. We all have medical, but there's also an incredible investment strategy you're probably not aware about, which is using an HSA to invest in assets you know and believe in. So we're going to talk about how do I get money in an HSA? Why does that help me on my tax return right now? How do I invest it and grow it? And we got some incredible opportunities for you to think about. We're not just talking about putting in a savings account or even buying a stock, mutual fund or ETF. And then, third, we want to talk about getting money out of that and accessing that, and medical being one of the most common expenses you're going to have later on in retirement.

Speaker 1:

We all have medical through our lives, so we're going to talk about actually accessing that and how we're doing that in a tax advantage manner as well, and I want to give you guys another couple of hooks on this. The number one reason for bankruptcy in America medical expenses. The number one reason people pull money out of their retirement account medical expenses. Medical expenses are growing again at an exorbitant rate. We have the Maha movement. We're hoping the RFK might be able to do something to bring down the costs of healthcare, but we need to take control of our healthcare costs by paying cash. We don't have to rely on the insurance companies. We can control our own destiny with our HSA accounts. There's so many hidden benefits here.

Speaker 2:

Here's what I want you to think about for the HSA. I want to just lay it out there quick. There's a triple tax benefit to the HSA. You get a tax deduction when you put the money in. As you invest it and grow it, you pay no taxes. It's growing, Every penny gets to be reinvested and continue to grow. And then there's no tax when you pull the money out for qualifying medical. You don't need to wait till you're later, at 59 and a half that's at any age and so it's called sometimes the triple threat triple tax benefit.

Speaker 1:

HSA. There's no other account like this. With the Roth you have to pay tax, then put the money in. Okay, I get twofer With an IRA or 401k, I get a deduction on the way in, but then I got to pay tax on the way out. So I get another twofer tax-free or should say tax-deferred growth and then I'll pay tax later. But with the HSA you get all three and then another bonus. There's no AGI limitations. There's no income limitations. It does not phase out, it is on the front page of your tax return. I guess I can't think of a better tax deduction for any American in this country that's on the front page of a tax return than the HSA.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So now let's hit some of the ways you get the money in. You can put 4,300 bucks in a year this is 2025 if you're single, $8,550 for those that are married. This is contribution in a deduction on the front page of your tax return. Like Mark says, you don't have to itemize. You get this deduction on the front page of your return. Whether you take the standard deduction or itemize, you're going to get that.

Speaker 2:

Now to qualify, you must have a high deductible plan, all right. So if you have a gold plan, for example, or if you have a Cadillac plan a really nice health insurance plan you can't do an HSA, sadly. So you must have what's called a high deductible plan. Now, under the one big beautiful bill, one of the changes was any bronze plan qualifies now as a high deductible plan and there are some rules on that. Most plans, when you have them, they will say HSA eligible. Even here at our companies or our own employees, we have an HSA eligible option and a health plan. Or you have that's usually cheaper or you have a more cover, everything lower deductible type plan, which is typically more expensive.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and another way of approaching this insurance issue, if I may, is don't worry about these metals bronze, gold, platinum plan, whatever. When you're shopping for insurance, whether you're on the state network, the federal network or using an independent insurance agent and we all three are alive and well in the country helping people get health insurance just make sure it's a qualifying HSA plan. That's all you want to ask. Is this a qualifying HSA plan For those out there that like a little extra info? That deductible limit has to be at least $1,650 if you're single or $3,300 if you're married. Now, you may be like, if you're single, or $3,300 if you're married, now you may be like holy crap, I got to come out of pocket for $3,300 with my health insurance plan in order to have an HSEA. Yes, now here's. Here's the okay part.

Speaker 1:

Most people don't even use their health insurance and so if you're unhealthy, you're going to go after a different type of plan. But I think statistics are now 70% of people don't even tap into the full deductible, even with a normal HMO type plan. They buy health insurance for the catastrophic problems. Oh no, I broke a leg or I have to have surgery or I got a terrible disease or some ailment. That's when insurance really should be there for us and we overdo it. We're buying oftentimes health insurance we don't need. So just get the right type of plan and realize that you're putting away money and savings to cover the deductible and if you don't use it, that money's growing for you forever.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and those plans you'll still have, like office visits for smaller amounts and the co-pays, and so you're still getting that coverage and benefit there. It's just for when you are coming out of pocket you'd have to hit those limits Again. $1,650 single, $3,300 or so married it's not that high of a deductible actually so but this is also, we've said, particularly for those that are healthy. Hsa is an incredible option no-transcript money into it because it has such an incredible tax benefit. As we said, it gives you the triple threat is the only one where you get the triple threat deduction tax-free growth tax-free distribution Yep.

Speaker 1:

Now a couple of more thoughts on this first part of just getting money in there. Tax-free distribution Yep. Now a couple of more thoughts on this first part of just getting money in there, because there's a lot here and we've got other podcasts on our sister channel, main Street Business Podcast, where we dedicate almost an hour to the HSA topic every year, especially in the fall when it's that enrollment period. So you want to be choosing the right type of insurance during that time period. But a couple of other thoughts. Once you turn age 65 and are eligible for Medicaid, you can't open a new HSA. You can keep investing the one you started previously, but you can't open a new one or put new money in when you pass go every year in January. But whatever that bucket is, you can continue to invest it and pull it out tax-free whenever you want.

Speaker 1:

Another thought about contributions is is I like what Matt brought up? Is the strategy? The sequence for me is any of you at work that have a 401k matching program, get the match. I mean that's doubling your money. Now it's only going to be 2% or 3% of your salary. Don't shoot for the stars on what you could put in the 401k. Just get the match Double your money. Then get out and sit back and go. Okay, where else do I want to deploy my savings? The Roth IRA and the HSA those two are going to be right up there in the second or third position. Then we're going to start looking at going back to the 401k, maybe putting in more, maybe we're going to look at a rental property. So, with a strategic approach, you're really building these multiple buckets for diversification, asset protection, and this money is building for the number one cost that you're going to face in life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a couple other things. If you're 55 or older, you get to put in an extra $1,000 a year. It used to be kind of clunky how you did this. That was one thing in the one big beautiful bill that was fixed on this, where if you are married and have a family, hsa, and both of you are over 55, you can each put the extra $1,000 in. Before you used to have to both go do single to do that, where you can double up on the on the catch up there for the extra thousand.

Speaker 1:

You can put the 2000 in now in a married plan if you're both 55 or older. Love it. There you go. Exactly One of the things.

Speaker 2:

if one of you is only over it, then one of you can just do the thousand. If you're both over, you can. You'll get the 2000 into that married HSA.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love. Other thing on contributions that I think is important everybody knows this is not a self-administered account. You're not going to just go open a bank account and say, oh, that's my HSA. This is the one where you have to use a third-party type administrator that's going to manage this account for you. There's companies out there that'll give you a debit card with it if you're going to put the money in and pull it right back out, which is fine. But for those who can let the money ride, we're going to come to part two here, which is investing that money, letting it go. So you're going to open an account. It does not have to be with the insurance company. It does not have to be with your employer. This is totally portable. You can take this account anywhere you go, as long as you have the right type of insurance, you can throw the money in. If your employer throws a little in, great, you can put in the rest up to those limits Matt mentioned earlier.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, man, investing this is your favorite part, yeah, this is the best part of it. And I think so many people miss this step is they think, oh, I've got this HSA and it's just sitting in a savings account at some bank making nothing. What are you doing? You got to be engaged in this. You can invest that money, you pay zero tax on the returns on that and that comes out entirely tax-free to cover your medical which, by the way, I'm going to tell you, don't pay your medical, reimburse it out later, and we'll get to that in a second here. But as you're investing that money, I want to be focused on growing that, doubling it, tripling it, so you have a bigger bucket, because we know this is going to be a big expense as you hit retirement, like long-term care, medicare coverage that you pay for out of pocket, like you can use your HSA for that stuff, of course dental there's so many things you're going to be able to cover for this during your lifetime that you can reimburse yourself backwards to even the stuff that's occurred over your lifetime as you've had an HSA. So we want to get a big HSA at the end of the day.

Speaker 2:

Now let me just cut to the chase here. My HSA owns crypto. Now you're like wait, you can, I own Solana in my HSA. You can own Bitcoin or Solana, you can, actually as an investment asset. Yeah, okay, now we have a crypto HSA directed IRA, which is what we do here at our company. Directed IRA. You can own real estate and other cool things with your health savings account. So we're not just talking about investing in a stock you could or a mutual fund you could. We're talking about investing in things that you believe in and think can grow exponentially to grow that HSA.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was so excited to talk about this today because I and I mentioned John Dutton for fun in my introduction. But my wife and I recently bought a ranch. I call it a ranch. It's a piece of land. Right now You've got to start doing stuff on it to actually call it a ranch, but we're trying. It's land with a trailer. We bought a ranch and in this little valley we've gotten to know other ranchers and farmers, of course, gotten to know other ranchers and farmers. Of course you go down and hang out at the grill or the little cafe on Saturday mornings, Matt.

Speaker 2:

That's the trick. Just want to give you a little pro tip there. That's where you get what's really going on in town.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we hit the county fair, the junior livestock auction, all those goodies. But anyway, I asked this rancher down the street. I said, hey, can I buy a few cows in your herd? Now, this was last fall, right before the presidential election and the Maha movement with RFK was starting to gain more traction, grass-fed beef, hormone-free beef and a little more health-conscious beef consumption around the country, whatever. But he said, sure, it'll be on his land, he'll manage them amongst his other herd. And he's like how many cows do you want? And I go, how much are they? He's like well, you can buy a pair that's a mom and a heifer, I'm sorry, a heifer and a calf, it's called a pair for about $3,500. And he told me how much he would charge to take care of them on the range.

Speaker 1:

And then in the fall and we penciled it out and Patty and I combined our HSAs, created a little LLC and we have been contributing to our HSA the last four or five years. So we have 30 or 40 grand in there and we bought nine, 10 pair and so we have 20 plus cows that we, when we drive through the valley, we can look over and go hey, those are our HSA cows and hormone free grass fed, and we could already sell those pairs for about 4,500 to 5 grand right now, just six months later. Now we're going to go through the fall. They're going to fatten up to about 1,200 pounds each those calves, and we're selling the livestock auction in the spring. But we're going to have a 20, 30, 35% return on these cows inside our health savings account.

Speaker 1:

How ironic is that Maha meat inside a health savings account? We just think it's so fun. And that's just an example of getting creative. You could do notes, you can do loans, you can invest in a small business down the street in a neighborhood that you're excited about, a business. Let your HSA participate in that, and all that profit is tax free. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And your HSA is also on the rental property.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's right I've got. 10 years ago I bought a little meth lab with my HSA. There's the irony there, but anyway, it's adorable for the low-income housing deal out in Chicago area but it's still rolling.

Speaker 2:

Those are non-prescription drugs. Doctor's not necessarily writing a prescription on those. I might clarify on the HSA here, but I think what we're talking about here is self-directing. If you're new to this show, we're talking about your IRA, your HSA, your tax advantage accounts. When you go and invest them, you don't just have to buy a stock or a mutual fund or an ETF. That's not the only investment option. That is when you have a brokerage HSA or IRA.

Speaker 2:

But if you have a self directed HSA, which you can open a new one, put new money in. You can transfer it from fidelity or health equity or wherever your HSA accounts at. You can transfer that existing money your employer's health savings account. You can always move that, that money that's just sitting there, probably in a savings account or some mutual fund you don't even know what it is. You can transfer that to directed IRA and invest it in crypto, invest it in you know livestock real estate, whatever it is you're interested in.

Speaker 2:

These assets are available to you using a health savings account and the goal here, of course, is we're going to grow the HSA, those returns on the crypto. That goes back into my HSA. It grows it, the return on the livestock when Mark sells the cows. That's putting return and investment gains back into the HSA. The rental income on the property on his HSA, the gain when he sells it, that's building up the HSA account balance. No tax, there's no tax on that. You're going to keep every penny back in that HSA. It's growing that balance, so you're having that those funds available for your future medical. Now of course, we'll talk about using the money here in a second. You can draw it out now if you want to. But why not keep investing in compounding in that tax advantage account? Draw the money out later unless you really really need it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Before we hit this third phase. If it's all right, I'm going to give a shameless plug. If you go to KohlerBritCattlecom that's K-O-H-L-E-R, kohlerbrit, b-r-i-t-t, cattlecom you can pre-buy for a nominal fee the right to buy one of these 10 grass-fed, hormone-free calves in the spring, and we've already got a handwritten waiting list. But we launched the website this week. Actually, it's funny, matt.

Speaker 1:

Matt was the one that wanted to talk about HSAs and I'm like, oh my gosh, I can talk about colibrick cattle, but it's hard to find cattle to buy that you want to have processed and butchered and split amongst family or friends or neighbors, because these are like 600, 700 pounds of beef when you process a cow that big.

Speaker 1:

So if you're interested in that and you want to watch our live roundup in 10 days, we're going to be doing it with webcams and you can watch and see us move the herd about a mile and do some branding, and so if you want to watch us on the live webcam and see the roundup, you can get to the Kohler Brick Cattle Company website. It's going to be a lot of fun. So we'll have a link down there on the page too. But I'm so excited to build the value of the HSA so that I can pull it out when I want to, not when I have to. And this is an exciting thing because, matt, I love how you've talked about this and I kind of learned this from you is that I don't have to go have a debit card to go to the doctor. I can just keep track of my medical expenses and then reimburse myself later and gosh, I think that rule you can collect those receipts for years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, that's the nice thing about the HSA is like, as long as you've had the HSA, you don't have to pull the money out. Now, let's say you have medical in 2025. You have 5,000 of medical and you're like, well, I could pull that out of my HSA and cover that. Why would you do that? Why would you take money out of a tax advantage account? When you invest it and grow it and you pay no tax to go cover a medical bill, you already got the deduction. When you put the money in, you're not paying taxes. You're growing it. Spending it out of the HSA is the last thing you want to do, because just pay for it money out of another pocket of money. Pay for it out of your regular checking your savings account. Don't pull the tax advantage funds out Now. Money out of your regular checking your savings account. Don't pull the tax advantage funds out Now.

Speaker 2:

You might be like well then, how am I ever going to get the money out of the HSA? Take it later, let that money compound and grow in a tax advantage way where every penny of gains and investment returns you have, you get to reinvest with no tax. But the rule for HSA is, let's say, 10 years later. You're like well, now I want to draw up some money out of this thing. I'm in retirement or my income's down now, and I want to start drawing on this HSA. And now it's in 2035.

Speaker 2:

Well, can I only take out medical that I have in 2035? No, all the medical you had in the last 10 years. You just track it. You can pull it out 10 years later, in 2035. That 5,000 in 2025 you had that. You decided to let stay investing, and now that 5,000 represents 20 or 30 grand from all the investment returns and gains. Pull that five grand out later in 2035. And so it's about being a little more strategic about it. A lot of our clients who are tax savvy take that approach where they're like why on earth would I drain money out of this tax advantage account to cover medical? I got the tax deduction already when I put it in.

Speaker 1:

I love your example, but I will say why in the world would you do it? There are a few listeners who don't have another pocket full of five grand. Obviously, obviously Some people are like, I need it.

Speaker 2:

The other pocket and I've done that and I think that's kind of the even my own HSA. You know, when I was in my late 20s and 30s and I had an HSA, I only put money in to take it right back out. Right, I had a $2,000 medical bill or something like that, or my kids needed braces. I put the exact amount into my HSA and I took it right back out because I need the deduction. That's the way you have to do it. You got to launder the money that way if you want the deduction. But that was coming right back out. But then my mindset shifted because I'm like I don't need to draw it out. I can start saving and investing my money. Yeah, would I do that?

Speaker 2:

in a brokerage account no, use the HSA no tax.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so, so powerful. Now let's answer what can you take it out for? Now this has actually gotten broadened with recent legislation, but let's just start with the baseline IRS publication 502. You can Google it, put it on your desktop on your laptop. You can Google it, put it on your desktop on your laptop, print it out. It's kind of thick but it's got a great index and it goes through every possible medical expense Dental, eyes, physical therapy, chiropractic, prescription drugs and everything that could or will not be allowed to be reimbursed. But the list is much, much broader than you may think.

Speaker 1:

I had some clients that had an autistic child and they were doing special education, therapy for speech therapy and all sorts of things all covered under the HSA or deductible under an HRA, a 105 plan, a whole other concept because they were a small business owner, because they had even more expenses than their HSA could cover. But what you can pull out for is just a laundry list and in 2020, with the CARES Act, it allows now over-the-counter drugs and even teletherapy and all sorts of non-prescription expenses that you can get reimbursed through your HSA. So that's really exciting, because I would just make this recommendation, as Matt referenced have a spreadsheet somewhere or a file or a folder of your paper mindset or paperless mindset, whichever one it is. Have somewhere where, at the end of the year, you get a report from all the doctors or pharmacies you may have visited. Maybe estimate what you spent at Walmart or Target on over-the-counter drugs aspirin, advil, tylenol, whatever Kind of do a little schedule. Here's what I spent in 2025.

Speaker 2:

Just put it somewhere Done and that's like a tax-free ledger that someday in the future you can just go grab it and done so yeah, and I think even with us at directed IRA, you know we're not saying you have to use the debit card to spend it out, so many people are used to that. No submitted expense submitted submitted distribution request. Tell us that it was for qualifying medical expenses and we send you the money. We report it as a you know that it was a distribution to you to reimburse you for qualifying medical, not taxable.

Speaker 2:

Now, one big thing that happened in the one big beautiful bill that was a buzzkill was they stripped out of early provision that said gym memberships would be able to be an expense in your HSA and that was going to qualify as a medical expense. Sadly, in the final bill that was snuck out. I thought it was a lame move but because that would have been cool, you could have covered your HSA, could have paid for your gym membership, which makes sense. We need to get people, you know, focused on that and a healthy lifestyle. But that was pulled out. So if you see any in there the commentary on that, even my own videos or any of the stuff like that just know that the qualifying medical expense for a gym did not make it into the final one big beautiful bill.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, now there is some strategic planning here, kind of gray area planning. I don't want to say gray, just interpretive planning. Let me reference a couple other publications you'd want to consider Publication 969. The IRS website has so many resources on this Code, section 213D, which is going to allow for long-term care coverage insurance. Your HSA can start paying for long-term care expenses or insurance and there's a lot of case law out there that the courts have said the tax court has said if a doctor prescribes a certain therapy, like you need to go swim every day for physical therapy. There's cases and we've had clients that have put in a swimming pool, one of these Michael Phelps-type lap pools for physical therapy and their HSA has paid for it or they've deducted it as a medical expense. So that's something you need to work with your accountant on and make sure you understand the rules and having a bona fide prescribed method of rehabilitation or therapy.

Speaker 1:

And it can be deductible under this as well.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely yeah, they call it letter of medical necessity. So if your doctor, physician, healthcare provider gives you a letter of medical necessity saying this is medically necessary for you for physical therapy, you could have. A gym membership is definitely something that you would be eligible for because of some type of illness or disease or I don't know. It could be a weight issue. Even that could be causing some medical problems. So you can doctor then, but it's not an automatic gym membership qualifies right now.

Speaker 1:

Now what I love about this, matt, too. I just want to add another interpretive issue, and that is service animals. The CARES Act did not specifically address emotional support animals as allowable medical expenses that can be reimbursed for through a flexible spending account or health savings account. But there is clear guidance about service animals therapy animals, guide dogs, hearing dogs, mobility assistance dogs, seizure response dogs all of these types of animals that are specifically trained for a medical condition tax deductible and some people go well, I've got to itemize, and then my AGI comes into play and blah, blah. That's why you use your HSA Put the money in your HSA, let the HSA pay for the service animal, and so that's another little loophole or workaround. That's pretty interesting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that makes sense. I mean, those dogs, those animals have costs to them and that's part of your healthcare spending and for those of you that have those, those medical conditions where you need that type of service, that totally makes sense. I love that little little tip there. So so let me just summarize here. Of course, the HSA. We love it because you get a tax deduction when you throw your money in immediately on your tax return. You're saving money.

Speaker 2:

Now you can invest it in things you know and believe in. You can grow it. It doesn't have to just sit in a savings account somewhere you don't even know it's making nothing, or invest in a stock or mutual fund. You can do invest in. You can invest in cool things you like. It could be crypto, it could be a private fund, it could be real estate, it could be livestock, even maybe even you buy some livestock from Kohler Britt cattle company who knows? And for more ideas on what you can invest in besides stocks, bonds and mutual funds, come to our AltAsset Summit. By the way, that's October 16th and 17th, altassetsummitcom. From all these different things we've talked about real estate, multifamily oil and gas Maybe we'll even have Mark Kohler talk about livestock. President of Kohler Britt.

Speaker 1:

Cattle Company. Maybe we'll do a barbecue, a little speech and some ribs could be good. Some little filet mignon steak skewers could be good. Anyway, yeah, no, I get this conference is so good. I really recommend any of you that are looking for greater returns inside your retirement accounts than just a 5% to 8%. Maybe you get lucky with a 10%. After all of the administration fees, let's be real. The beauty of self-directing is administrative costs are oftentimes far, far less because there's not an investment manager over your money. It's you directing. Get the word Self-directing where that money goes and the ROIs can be incredible. So please come to that Alt Asset Summit, either in person or get the remote link. It's every year. It's just awesome. Patty and I walk around and go to the different booths and it's been amazing what some of the people are doing out there, investing, making money that we didn't know we could participate in with just our retirement accounts as a lay person, if you will.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then I'll be in Scottsdale, arizona Beautiful time to be here middle of October. Lots of other like-minded investors and incredible experts too, speaking, so we'd love to see you guys there Then. The last tidbit, of course, on just this HSA topic is remember, on getting the money out. You can use it for qualifying medical. We talked about a lot of the stuff that is qualifying but you don't have to pull it out now. Let the money ride right. If you have good investments and opportunities, let it compound and grow in that tax advantage account. Pull it out later when you do need the money to actually live on for your own lifestyle, or maybe because you've sold your business or you're not working anymore, you're in retirement or your financial situation changes, whatever the case may be. But just know you don't have to pull the money out immediately when that medical expense is incurred.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, I want to just say thank you to all of you, our listeners, that hopefully find this a little entertaining as well. We try to bring unique perspective to these topics and I want to say thanks to Matt, who's really been a leader in this industry and helped so many people understand what they can do with their retirement accounts. And Directed IRA, the trust company, the team there, is amazing. You can always get to the website, click on the live chat, give us a phone call. Your employees right here in the United States, right here in Phoenix, you'll get on the phone and talk with and they're just great people too.

Speaker 1:

So we would love to be of help to you. Please take control of your destiny and your future. It's yours for the taking and you can do it even with your health savings account. Thanks so much for everybody listening and we're going to see you next week for another episode of the Directed IRA Podcast. And thank you everyone for listening. A quick disclaimer and reminder this presentation does not constitute an attorney or CPA client relationship and it is always in your best interest to consult competent legal and tax professionals when conducting your own personal transactions.

Speaker 2:

We also want to make sure you know this is not investment advice or financial advice. We're just trying to give you education, ideas and strategies you can take to your professionals or conduct your own research on. We'll see you next time.