Year-End Retirement Account Strategies (Webinar)

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Year-end is one of the most important windows for retirement planning. Some moves must be completed by December 31, while others can wait until the tax filing deadline – and new rules coming in 2026 will change how much you can save and whether certain contributions must be Roth.In this live webinar, Directed IRA’s CEO, Mat Sorensen, will walk through the most important retirement account strategies to understand before year-end and how to position yourself for 2026.
     
You’ll Learn
- Which retirement account moves must be done by December 31…and which can wait
- How to optimize 401(k), IRA, Roth IRA, HSA, and Solo 401(k) strategies at year-end
- When Roth conversions make sense now vs. pushing them into 2026
- Backdoor Roth and mega backdoor Roth strategies to know before year-end
- Key 2026 rule changes that may impact contribution limits and Roth requirements

his session is designed to help you avoid missed opportunities, reduce taxes, and make informed decisions before the year closes.

Why Directed IRA?
At Directed IRA, we’ve helped thousands of investors put over $3 billion into real estate, private funds, notes, and more, all inside tax-advantaged retirement accounts. Our team of experts and streamlined platform make it easy to invest with confidence.

Directed IRA Homepage: https://directedira.com/

Directed IRA Explore (Linktree): https://linktr.ee/SelfDirectedIRA

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Other:
Mat Sorensen: https://matsorensen.com & https://linktr.ee/MatSorensen
KKOS: https://kkoslawyers.com
Main Street Business https://mainstreetbusiness.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Year-End Game Plan Overview
• 0:47 401k Match First, Then More
• 4:21 Traditional vs Roth 401k Choices
• 6:42 Catching Up On Missed Matches
• 8:41 Roth Conversions And Timing
• 11:46 Chunking Large Conversions Smartly
• 16:37 Backdoor Roth IRA Explained
• 21:14 Spousal And Pro Rata Snags
• 23:07 Real Estate Losses And Conversions
• 26:46 Solo 401k Deadlines And W‑2 Traps
• 32:08 April 15 IRA Moves And Doubling Up
• 35:19 2026 Limits And Roth-Only Catch-Up
• 40:03 Mega Backdoor Roth Mechanics
• 46:22 Kids’ Roth IRAs And Earned Income
• 51:43 Rapid Q&A And Key Reminders
• 57:58 Disclaimers And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:08

We are going to be going over retirement account strategies though and how you can get more money in by December 31st. And then we're also going to go over the things you don't need to stress about right now. It's not till April 15th or later in the year, but we want to talk about how do I maximize my retirement account dollars. There are a number of things we want you to do before year end. Then lastly, we're going to talk about what are some of the new rules in 2026 you need to know about. There's a number of changes happening in retirement accounts in 2026 that could affect you. So we want to go over those so you know how to plan and what to be prepared for. So you're making maximum contributions and strategies for 2026. All right, let's dig in. Okay, first thing before you're in, 2025, you need to match it out of your 401k plan. If you've got a 401k plan at work or you have a spouse that has a 401k plan at work where the company offers a match, which is very common, let's say, for example, the match is we'll match dollar for dollar of what you put in your 401k up to 4% of what you make. So if you make$100,000, let's say, and you put in$4,000, they'll match dollar for dollar up to 4% up to the$4,000. So you want to put in your$4,000 so you get the free money from your employer with the match, which is 100% return on money. You would be a fool to return to, you know, decline an investment that has an automatic 100% return on day one. But that's what you're doing if you're not matching out in your 401k at work. You are being a fool. So go and do it already. Now, if you have a solo 401k, you're the employer paying for the match. We're going to come to that later, not as critical. But if you have an employer with the match, let's at least get the maximum amount of money in to take full advantage of the match. Even if the match is 50%, some 401ks have a match of 50%, or the last 2% they'll throw in is only at 50%. Still get that because that's a 50% return on your investment. Again, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of a 50% return on investment in day one, automatically guaranteed. All right, so that's the match and out. Now, the why we say match and then out is you may decide whether to maximize your 401k contributions of your own dollars that's coming out of your pocket. That's a different consideration. But number one, here, I want to make sure you at least get the match. Secondarily, let's go back to that example. Make 100K, you put in four grand, the company matched and put in four grand. The company's not putting anything more in. So any more money you put into the 401k, which with your employer 401k, you've got to do this by year end. You've got to do it by year end to qualify for the match as well with an employer-based 401. But after that, anything I want to put in, I can put up to the 23,500 max, another 7,500 for any of you who are 50 plus. Now, these are your dollars. This is getting deducted out of your paycheck. Um, but these are tax advantaged dollars you can throw in. So if you're like, well, I need more tax deductions this year in 2025, we'll do traditional contributions. If you're like, I love Roth accounts, that's more me, my style. I don't want to grow and build tax-free wealth. Well, you can only put in so much money every year. So let's make sure we maximize that in that employer 401k, and you can do the Roth contributions up to that 23.5. Again, another 7,500 uh if if you're 50 plus. So, but that's traditional or Roth dollars. This is just your employer 401k. I want you to think about this for yourself. Or if any of you are married, think about your spouse too, and have they maximized it? Now, a common question we get is well, Matt, I've only put in$1,000 in my 401k this year. You know, I've been doing 1%. I've been targeting that. I make 100 grand. You know, I don't have enough paychecks coming through to throw in the other 3,000 to get the full match. What can I do? Most 401ks allow you to put the money in directly to get the match. Now you need to coordinate with your employer because you need to get that money in before December 31st. And they're gonna have to coordinate the match. It's not as it's not the best way to do it, but this is a common thing. Some people are having to do and coordinate with their employer and their plan administrator at year end. Okay, so we got the match. We can also maximize our 401k contributions from our employee side, but remember that is gonna cost you. Okay, next, let's go over Roth conversions. Roth conversions don't have to be done by December 31st, but they do have to be done by December 31st if you want them in the 2025 tax year. So if you want this to go on your 2025 tax return for whatever reason, you need to get your Roth conversion done. A couple of things I want you to think about on the Roth conversion. First is, is this a low income tax year for you? If so, this would be a great year to convert and get it on your 2025 tax return. Maybe you're out of work this year, you're self-employed, you'd have a low income year. You could also be looking at this from another angle of, hey, my my for my IRA, 401k, whatever it is, that's traditional dollars, has been in the stock market and it's gone down and I'm at a lower value. You know, you could also be converting at a lower value. So think of it from a strategic standpoint where are you sitting right now in 2025. I think the number one consideration is what's your year been like tax-wise? The second consideration I want you to think about of whether to do Roth conversions this year is maybe you have a larger amount you're trying to convert. Let's say this is$300,000 in a traditional IRA. Let's say you have$300,000 in a traditional IRA and you want to make it Roth dollars, but you're like, but I don't want to take$300K into taxable income in 2025. That's gonna crush me on my tax bill. I'm gonna be in the 37% highest bracket. That's gonna cost me, you know, almost$100,000 to convert that thing, or it's gonna cost me over$100,000 to convert that thing just on the federal tax side. So how can I be more strategic about it? Well, one thing you could do is just break it up over two years. We call this chunking. It's a throwback to the movie Goonies. If you know, you know. And under chunking, what we're doing is we're saying, hey, let's take$150,000 of that$300K and let's convert it in 2025. The other$150,000, let's convert that in January of 2026 and that'll go on your 2026 return. That way, within the you know, 30 days here, I've gotten 300 grand converted over to Roth, but I split the tax liability up between two years. So if you're someone who has pretty steady income, maybe you're on a salary or your business income is pretty steady between year to year, it's not gonna bump you up to more than a couple brackets. So rather than going two brackets up to hit 37%, I might stay in a 22% tax bracket. Okay, it depends on your situation and your total adjusted gross income. But as a general rule of thumb, you will pay less money in tax by chunking because you will stay in lower tax brackets on the amount you're converting. Now, this could be done over three years. You could say, I'm gonna do it over the next 13 months, 100K now, 100K in 2026, another 100K in January of 2027, and I'm gonna convert the whole 300,000, but do it in 100,000 chunks because of where you fall within the tax brackets. So um just keep that in mind. We've got some resources, and you can obviously Google the federal tax brackets to look where you're at um in terms of the income because this conversion is these last dollars on top. So you know your income already through the year. Let's say you've made 200 grand this year and you're like, well, I want to convert 300 grand. Well, that 300 grand is gonna be taxed at the rate above 200k of income. Okay, so we'll be pushing you into higher tax years. So think about chunking and getting that done by December 31st, 2025, because you want to get some of that chunked into the 2025 tax year. Now, last consideration on the Roth conversion. You may be like, Matt, I pretty much make the same every year, or I'm I'm lower middle income. The chunking doesn't really matter. I'm just trying to convert 50 grand here. It's not going to push me into another tax bracket. Just convert it in January of 2026. If we're already, what do we got, 15 days here left, unless you have an incredible investment, you need to make it with Roth dollars now. Just wait until January of 2026 because you'll at least push it out one more tax year. If you convert now in 2025, remember that's tax return to April 15th plus extensions. But if you convert in 15 days here, that'll won't be due until April 15th of 2027. All right. So that'll push you out another year tax return-wise. Um, any questions yet, Daniel?

SPEAKER_02: 8:34

Yeah, I think I think we have a good one here, which is uh we have my wife's primary job contributes 4% to her 403B.

SPEAKER_01: 8:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 8:41

And she does not have to contribute her portion. So she doesn't contribute anything at that job. So we can take the full write-off in our solo 401k. Does that sound right?

SPEAKER_01: 8:53

Okay. All right. Spouse has a 403B at work, probably works for a government agency with state, local, federal, and then that's typically what the 403B is for. It's like a 401k for um if you work for a government agency or possibly a nonprofit. So um that's great. They throw the match in automatically. Um, those typically were government um or agencies that used to have a pension plan, and so they've moved to this anyways. Um so don't worry about the matching out. You got the match for free. Like, so you're good there. Now, in terms of the solo K, I presume that means you're self-employed, the person asking the question here, and you're doing a solo 401k. We're gonna come to that here in a second. All right, solo Ks are a little different. The bottom line here is if you already have a solo K that's already been set up for 2025, don't worry about contributing by December 31st. I mean, I want you to get your money in and start investing now, but your your deadline to get the money in for 2025 contributions isn't until the company return deadline. See, a 401k at work, employers have a certain amount of time when they take money out of your paycheck and they're doing a match and they're holding your dollars, they have to put it into the 401k. And so on an employer 401k, that's basically is happening by December 31st. In a solo 401k, the actual time to get the money in as a contribution is the company's tax return deadline. So if you're an S corporation, most common entity for someone that has a solo K is going to be an S corporation. Um, your tax return deadline is March 15th, plus you get extensions. So if you extend your company return, you also get an extension of when to put in your solo K contributions, which can push you out till September 15th. Okay. Now, if you're a solo K person, the one thing I want to say here, I'm already getting into this. Why don't I just go to the solo case slide?

SPEAKER_02: 10:46

You know, you just I was trying to segue you. I was trying to get you back on the side.

SPEAKER_01: 10:50

Remember, contribution deadline here, March 15th, you get an extension September 15th. If you're a solo prop, that's April 15th, plus extension uh October 15th. Here's the problem though for you, escort boners. If you have a solo 401k already set up, or you're setting one up right now before and you're trying to get it done before December 31st, we can help you. You've got to move like now, okay? Because we got Christmas next week. New Year's, by the way, the IRS shuts down um around uh New Year's Eve or sorry, Christmas Eve. They're gonna be shut down here in like the next couple weeks. So we want to move quickly on getting a solo K set up if you're still trying to do it for 2025. Now, we can set it up next year too, a solo K for 2025, but your contributions can be limited. Here's why. If you have an S corporation and you want to make employee contributions in a solo K. See, a solo K is a 401k plan if you're self-employed. You put money in as an employee, and the company, your company, puts money in because you're such a great employee, and they put in a company contribution. So it's a solo K has a combination of you put money in as the employee because you work in your business, and the company's throwing in a match because you're such a great employee, and it's your own company money. It's coming out of your pocket all at the same day if you own 100% of the business. So, um, but that's what a solo K is. But an employee contribution has to be on your W 2. In an S corporation, you have to have a W 2 for what you're paying yourself. That's what your employee contribution is based on, and it must be indicated on your W 2, which is due on January 31st, 2026. Even though I don't need to put the money in until March 15th or September 15th plus extension if I extend my S corporation deadline, I have to note what I'm putting in on my W 2, which is due on January 31st. So what does that mean? It means you got to be planning. And if you want to make it simple, just put it in now. If you're like, well, Matt, I missed the deadline. What can I do? Well, we can still do employer contributions. Let's say you're talking to us in February or March. If you're a sole prop, you could probably do employee contributions. But US Corp owners, it's gonna be hard to get that employee contribution in because you're gonna have to go back and amend your W-2. It's a lot more work, pain, and headache, and it's not certain you're gonna be able to maximize all your contributions. So, bottom line, if you want to keep it simple, just do it now. Get your contributions in now. If you don't have a solo K yet, being thinking about doing one, go ahead and set it up already. There's a new tax credit, automatic contribution arrangement. If you adopt that, you can get a$500 tax credit that flows down to your personal return over the next three years,$1,500. It'll pay for the cost of setting up a solo K. So we've got an article coming out on that uh shortly. Uh, we did a webinar at our sister-in-law firm, KQS lawyers on it as well. So um solo Ks kind of matters before December 31st. US corporation owners, it's really January 31st. Everyone else, it's kind of the company return deadline. There is a lot of stuff you can do in 2026 to still make a 2025 contribution. Just keep in mind US Corp owners, which is most of you doing a solo K. Your W-2 is gonna be due. And so you might as well start planning and get the money in now. Now, here's another thing you could do. You could, in the solo case, say, Well, I'll put what I'm let's say I decide I want to put in the 23.5 um, 2025 contribution max. Um, Roth or traditional dollars doesn't matter, but I'm not gonna put the money in yet. But I know I'm gonna do it before March 15th or September 15th if I extend my extend my company return. You can just say you're going to do that on your W-2, and you don't have to put it in yet until the cunt contribution deadline as well. All right. Um went down a rabbit hole on that, but we did have a slide. So great question. What other diversions do you have that?

SPEAKER_02: 14:42

I actually I think this is gonna be a good diversion for you. I think a little bit of basis here. Okay, so on the topic of Roth conversions.

SPEAKER_01: 14:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 14:50

Is that assuming pre-tax money andor money that has been generating earnings and therefore taxes could be triggered with a conversion?

SPEAKER_03: 14:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 14:59

I'm guessing this does not apply for backdoor Roth uh that is being funded with after tax money.

SPEAKER_01: 15:05

Am I missing something? Okay, great question. And that is a great segue. Who asked that question?

SPEAKER_02: 15:10

Uh anonymous attendee.

SPEAKER_01: 15:11

Oh, anonymous attendee, come out and get some. Thank you. That was a great question. Um, you're absolutely right. We're talking about pre-tax dollars, also known as traditional dollars. This is what you got a tax deduction in to put in, plus the earnings on those. When you convert those dollars to Roth, you have to take it into taxable income. So when we're talking about that$300,000 traditional IRA or pre-tax dollars that you have in a 401k, whatever it may be, you got a tax deduction to put that money in and there's been earnings on it. Well, I want to go Roth on those dollars. Iris is like, we'll let you do it, but you're gonna pay a toll. You have to take the whole thing into your taxable income. So that whole 300 grand, and maybe you want to just convert a partial amount. Again, you can chunk it up and convert whatever piece you want, but that you'll gonna get a 1099. So to do a Roth conversion, you'll submit a form to us at directed IRA if your accounts here. You get up other accounts other places, and you know, um, but you're gonna have to, you have to make a Roth conversion election form. You have to do that in writing. And then we're gonna send you a 1099 after January 31st, 2026. That's when your 1099s are due for anyone from anyone. But you're gonna get a 1099 R from us saying, hey, they converted 150,000 of traditional dollars to Roth, and that's gonna flow onto your 1040 on your tax return. So that would be your pre-tax dollars. Now let's go to backdoor Roth IRA. That was the segue there from anonymous attendee, which was there's no tax on a backdoor Roth. Okay, a backdoor Roth IRA has a Roth conversion in it, but it is not a taxable Roth conversion because you do something called a non-deductible traditional contribution. Non-deductible means I didn't take a deduction. And in the backdoor Roth, you're not investing those dollars. You're immediately converting. So there's no earnings, so there's no tax due on the backdoor Roth conversion. Now, the backdoor Roth IRA can be done by April 15th. The reason we're noting it here by as a 1231 strategy is some of you may be bumping up on the income limits where you're used to doing Roth IRA contributions, where you put your seven grand in just to your Roth IRA, and you haven't need to worry about the backdoor Roth. We always run into a handful of clients every year who are like, ah, I'm over the income limits. They're doing their tax return in 2026 and they just did regular Roth contributions because they weren't aware of the backdoor Roth structure and the modified adjusted gross income limits. Here's the point if you make more than 150 grand single or 236,000 married filing joint, you need to do a backdoor Roth IRA. You can't just do a regular Roth IRA and make the full contribution. All right. The regular Roth IRA is meant for lower or middle income individuals. They that when they kind of created Roth IRAs, Congress was like, we can't let high income earners use these. So they restricted you from putting contributions into a Roth IRA if you were high income. High income being 150 single, 236 married, these get adjusted every year. Now, the backdoor Roth IRA, the basic concept is where it's a loophole. Okay. That's why it's called the backdoor. All right. We're going around the back and we're coming in the back door to get into the Roth IRA party. That's what's inside. But what you're doing is you're putting money into a traditional IRA. It's a non-deductible contribution. You convert it to Roth on day two, not taxable because it was non-deductible, and now the money's in a Roth IRA. It seems insane, but this is the tax code. And this is what this is like the perfect example of a loophole. You really have to thread the needle through and do the little loophole to validate this strategy. Now I do a backdoor Roth IRA every year. I've been doing it for a while. Many of our clients are utilizing the backdoor Roth IRA every year, getting seven grand in. That's for 2025, an extra thousand if you're um 50 plus. But just know, look at where your income's been at for the year. You might be someone that's already familiar with the backdoor Roth IRA. You're like, Matt, I've already done it. You know, I'm good. But if you're a regular Roth person that's income has gone up, you might need to do the backdoor Roth. Now, what you will do, let's say you messed this up. Let's say you did a Roth IRA contribution, you're single, and you end up making 200 grand this year. You're over that 150 limit. You're like, I had a good year this year, I made more than I'm used to, or I've gotten a raise, or my business did well, or big bonus, whatever it was, you made 200 grand. And you're like, but I already put my seven grand in the Roth. I put it in like in June of 2025. What do I do? We're gonna need to recharacterize that, okay, over to traditional dollars. gonna do a backdoor Roth on it. And then we are gonna convert it over to Roth. Okay. So this is the um this is kind of a fix it backdoor Roth IRA. Not ideal, but there's a way to do this. You need to do that before April 15th, by the way. Um but for any of you that haven't executed yet on the backdoor Roth IRA, definitely something you should be doing every year. Um and just pay attention to where you're at income wise. Again, 150 single 236 married is where you need to worry about the backdoor Roth IRA. Rather than just doing the nice and easy, put your seven grand directly in the front door on a Roth IRA. Any questions on backdoor Roth that popped in?

SPEAKER_02: 20:39

I do. I have one question on the backdoor Roth. I actually have a couple on solo 401ks too so you get to know if you want to backtrack as well. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 20:46

Let's hit them both.

SPEAKER_02: 20:46

So for backdoor Roth, can I contribute 7K plus 7K for my wife if we're over the limit?

SPEAKER_01: 20:54

Yes. Okay. I love that. You should be doubling that up and if you married you should both be doing a backdoor Roth IRA. Um I'll skip the jokes on that even if your spouse is not working, you might have a spouse that's not working the you can attribute income to them. If you have a nonworking spouse and a married couple filing on a tax return, one requirement to contribute to an IRA is you must have earned income. But the nonworking spouse can get income attributed to them from the working spouse. So um so it's not like you need to put them on payroll for any of you business owners that may have a nonworking spouse. But absolutely you should be doubling up on that. Why the heck not? The only snag I would say on a backdoor Roth IRA is if you have traditional IRA dollars in a traditional IRA somewhere else that you haven't converted to Roth yet. If you have a traditional IRA that could even be just a SEP IRA because those are actually traditional dollars that is um that's that has not been converted to Roth, the IRS makes you convert pieces of that too when you're doing the backdoor Roth. You have to do this pro rata share of your traditional deductible dollars with your traditional non-deductible dollars, which is that new seven grand you just put into the uh traditional IRA to do the backdoor Roth IRA. So um there's just a little more on that we've got articles on that there are some workarounds to it. Your traditional 401k doesn't matter don't worry about that. It's just traditional IRA dollars can sometimes if you have those already that could be a snag to executing a backdoor Roth IRA. The reason I brought that up with the spouse example is I have had clients over the years that are like well I have a traditional IRA with you know 200k in it. I don't want to convert the whole thing yet so that means I can't do the backdoor Roth um true uh but they're like but my spouse doesn't have a traditional account should I do the backdoor Roth for them? Yeah because then we can automatically convert theirs so um over to to to do a backdoor Roth IRA. So just keep that in mind on the uh backdoor Roth IRA if you have traditional IRA dollars.

SPEAKER_02: 23:07

Okay, solo K questions uh I actually one more good uh Roth convert it's a Roth conversion question that uh you may be getting into I'm not sure but it's the Roth conversion uh to depreciation losses from real estate so I have real estate my IRA what happened what does that look like with the Roth conversion on that one?

SPEAKER_01: 23:25

Okay that will not help you okay if you have real estate in your IRA that has depreciation losses is that the question yeah so he's using he's excuse me he's looking for his real estate uh losses and then doing the conversion in his Roth IRA got it okay sorry all right let's say that you have rental real estate you're a real estate investor and you have depreciate you have losses on your real estate which generally you get because you have a depreciation expense like you could be cash flowing the property like making money you know over your expenses on your rental property but you actually have a loss for tax purposes because of depreciation whether you're accelerating depreciation with the cost segregation or whatever your strategy is so let's say I have rental real estate losses personally that are on my 1040 and I say hey but I want to do a Roth conversion. So I've got 100K of rental real estate losses I can go do a Roth conversion for 100K and convert 100,000 of traditional dollars over to Roth and the rental real estate losses will offset the Roth conversion. Well that only works if you are a real estate professional for tax purposes. If you are non-real estate professional for tax purposes your rental real estate losses can only offset other investment or rental real estate income it cannot come over and offset a 1099 on a Roth conversion your W-2 income your business income it's bottled up here. Okay so for example me my rental real estate losses I can use those losses against gains on other properties but otherwise they're bottled up no I'll use those rental real estate losses when I sell the property to offset taxable gain I might have when I sell the property but otherwise they get bottled up here. I'm not a real estate professional I don't spend enough hours I don't do the material participation and my full-time business isn't real estate. Okay even though I might have a number of properties. So the only way your rental real estate losses are going to help you on the Roth conversion is if you're a real estate professional or your spouses. That's a tax classification you want to talk to your tax lawyer CPA. The attorneys by the way at KQS Lawyers can do a comprehensive tax and business consult and get over to kqoslawyers.com if you're like Matt you just blew my brain there I didn't even know what you were talking about. Get over there we can help you um now there are some loopholes to that there for example there's a self-rental rule if you rent real estate to your own business and you own the real estate but you're renting it to your business we can use those losses to offset your business income short-term rental there's a short term rental loophole so there's a number of things to think about there um outside the scope here the point is how can I get tax losses to offset the cost of the conversion okay so that would be more of a tax lawyer question though way too much to cover here today but I love where you're going because that's being strategic and smart about it. But our lot the law firm sister law firm KQS lawyers can help you there.

SPEAKER_02: 26:30

So this is this is a very old one hopefully Richard you're still here they are investing in a working interest oil and gas as a sole proprietor with their spouse uh they've been told that the income next year will be on a Schedule C and SE tax will be due. Does this mean the net income can be invested into a solo 401k?

SPEAKER_01: 26:52

Yes. Okay now that would be contributed into a solo K, not invested. So if you're a sole proprietor this year for 2025, is that what they're saying and they're not going to S Corp? I believe so yes. Okay if you're a sole proprietor for this year then what you're contributing is the net self-employment income. So when you do Schedule C on your 1040 you have your income your expenses what's the net self-employment income that you have let's say it's a hundred grand okay well what can I contribute to my solo K you can contribute$23,500 let's assume you're under age 50 23,500 that is the employee contribution you can choose to do Roth or traditional plus you can do the employer contribution which is 20% of that in the employer contribution you get 25% for S Corps or partnerships or uh for S Corps but for sole proprietorships uh you just get 20% uh again too much detail should I get into I don't even know why I need to say that but there's a reason for it it's just not a good one. So 20% so you can put in 20 grand as an employer contribution. So in other words you made 100 grand on your self-employment as a sole prop. You're gonna be able to put in 235 employee 2000 employer for 43,500 if you want to max out contributions. Now yours there's no W 2 so you don't need to worry about it on even January 31st you don't need to worry about it to April 15th. Now you might as well put the money in if you have it to start investing and growing that money um I'm just talking about when's the deadline to get it in for tax purposes. Uh great question there though.

SPEAKER_02: 28:32

All right anything else yeah I there there are a lot of questions I'm trying to keep us on topic though of the of the strategy yeah I appreciate it let's so sorry to the people that we may not be answering questions for does anyone have a year end question because I'm gonna jump to April April 15th issues and then 2026 changes and we're gonna come back and do a final QA here.

SPEAKER_01: 28:53

We'll do a fire round at the end. I haven't seen anything for year end but uh there are some people that are kind of leading into it but not asking it directly and by the way if you're like oh I need to do a backdoor Roth IRA this year ooh I should get a solo K going we do have a discount code right now you can book a call okay holiday 150 is the promo code that saves you 150 bucks if you need to open a new account you're already a customer or you're new to the directed IRA family you can at least save 150 bucks let's get in and get it done now before year end um because that 150 we don't do specials typically are supposed to be 50 bucks maybe 100 150 is the best uh discount we offer and as somebody who helps open up these accounts day in and day out yeah please guys if you're looking to set up a solo 41k do it get it book calls with us today tomorrow because I don't like you guys getting mad at me later on in the year and being like what's taking so long it's like well there's a line in front of you. Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 29:49

There's a lot of people who are trying to do it by the end of the year.

SPEAKER_01: 29:51

You know like at halftime when you're like trying to go to the bathroom and everyone else is too and you're like maybe I should just go a little bit early or let's let's just go a little bit early.

SPEAKER_02: 30:02

Go a little bit early you're not gonna miss anything.

SPEAKER_01: 30:04

It's okay. It's gonna be all right. You know um same thing here. Okay. All right so let's go into some other items for April 15th. Um okay now IRA contributions okay this you can put seven grand in for 2025 an extra thousand for you that are 50 plus so you're putting in eight grand. Now the contribution actually isn't due until April 15th 2026. This is for 2025 tax purposes. So don't stress about just your regular IRA contributions. You can even be doing the backdoor Roth IRA later here. So I I was talking about December 31st just to know whether you need to do regular Roth or backdoor Roth or whether you need to re-characterize but um otherwise any of your IRA strategies can be done by April 15th. Now this does not include plus extensions. Even if you extend your return to October 15th your personal 1040 your IRA contribution is still April 15th. All right so don't miss the tax return deadline if you're trying to get 2025 contributions in. Now for a lot of new people one of the things I like to talk about as a strategy if you're new to setting up a Roth IRA traditional IRA backdoor Roth IRA this is the time of year to double up on contributions because what you're gonna be able to do in January of 2026 is put 7500 bucks in to your IRA okay plus you could put the seven grand in for 2025. So I can put two years of contributions in, right? Because the 2025 contributions not due until April 15th 2026 and I can start making 2026 contributions in January of 2026 once I made the seven grand in that year or the 7500 bucks. So um get the money in early and you can double up on the contributions making two years of contributions that you could be doing as soon as January of 2026.

SPEAKER_02: 32:03

All right now let's talk about some of the changes here um or was there any IRA contribution deadline questions um that's usually pretty straightforward though yeah does the IRA have to exist before 2025 ends even though the contribution is made in 2026 by April 15th no it does not don't worry about that you can set it up next year but if you want to save 150 bucks get it set up now. Yeah I always tell people like if you set setting up the IRA if you're gonna set one up in January get the 150 bucks off today you're saving yourself maybe$30 by waiting January is how the math works out.

SPEAKER_01: 32:41

Yeah and I like the other thing there's a study by Fidelity where they looked at what are the characteristics of people who had over a million dollars in an IRA or 401 and there's like three or four like common themes. One of those common themes was they contribute as soon as they can not when the deadline is okay if you think about that I don't want you to be thinking about when can I put when's the last day to put money into my IRA. Okay because if you think about like your 2025 IRA contribution yeah it's not due until April 15th of 2026 but if you put the money in of in January of 2025 you would have had all this investment growth. You would have had a whole 12 months of investment growth all right and then if you're gonna wait till April 15th we got another four and a half months of investment growth. So we want our money working for us right that's the whole purpose of investing waiting to invest isn't going to grow that money any faster. So um don't think of this like your like assignment in high school that you turn on the deadline all right think about this as an investment that's gonna grow and benefit you. So the earlier the earliest you can get it in the more benefit you'll get out of it. So don't think about when is it due. Think about when can I put the money in. And I will tell you I see I see that in our accounts whether it's a solo K, a Roth IRA, backdoor Roth, whatever it is, they contribute in January and February. They get the money in as soon as possible. They're not waiting until April 15th of next year. Okay. All right shift I know it doesn't matter now because we're talking about year end stuff, but 2026 is around the corner. So be smart about your 2026 contribution get that in so that money can start working for you. All right now let's transition into new limits and new rules for 2026. So the contribution limits did go up for 2026. That was good news coming from the IRS it's rare but it does come every once in a while so here's what it is for 2026 contributions for IRAs is 2500 bucks that went up$500 from 7,000 sorry did I say$2500?$7500 okay contribution limits went up to$500 to$7,500 that's up$500 from seven grand in 2025. The catch up used to be$1,000 extra for any of you$50 plus now it's$1,100 every little bit counts here. And so the total if you're$50 plus by the way would be$8,600 that you could contribute for 2026 into your IRA. That's for traditional or Roth also same if you're doing a backdoor Roth IRA. Now$01Ks the employee contribution amount went up$1,000 the maximum employee contribution was$23,500. That is now$24,500. So you can put over$1,000 more in a 401k this includes solo Ks. The total contributions in last year was$70 grand was the max contributions into a 401 including solo case that is now$72,000 for um 2026 401 contributions. All right now that's pretty standard every year sometimes the the IRS keeps it the same but these are basically inflation adjusted we've had inflation you know obviously we all hear about it in the news over the last year or so the contribution limits go up because they get adjusted for inflation. Now the big change that goes into effect in 2026 is something that came from Secure 2.0 this was retirement account legislation that passed a couple years ago there's a provision going into effect from that law in 2026 that affects catch up contributions in a 401 if you're 50 plus. So and this applies to a solo K as well this applies to your 401 at work or maybe your spouse's 401 if you are 50 plus this is really really important traditionally when you do a catch up contribution and even what you can do for 2025 right now, you can choose and say hey the catch up contribution I want to throw in I want to put in traditional or Roth dollars you could pick. The IRS gave you the choice and you could do 100% traditional 100% Roth you could mix it up but the IRS gave you the choice now in 2026 you no longer have a choice. Ketchup contributions must be Roth dollars in 2026 if you made more than 150 grand on your W-2 from that employer in the prior year. So let's say it's 2026 now you're someone that's 50 plus and you want to make the catch up contributions which how much is that for 2025? Can you look that up if or do you know off the top of your head, Daniel?

SPEAKER_02: 37:30

Uh the ketchup contributions for 2025 no I'm not I don't have that right here.

SPEAKER_01: 37:35

All right I think it's like it's like eight grand.

SPEAKER_02: 37:37

Yeah I was gonna say 7500.

SPEAKER_01: 37:39

Yeah 7500 I think goes to eight grand for 2026. Okay so let's say um we're sitting in 2026 and you want to make your catch up contribution of eight grand or so um and in 2025 you made 150 grand or more from that employer. Well your catch up contribution must be Roth dollars okay is 7500 for 2025 what is it for 26 though 26 I thought it was just an extra 1080 85 okay I'm double checking that all right we'll clarify that. Yes um so that's the big change. Now the there's been a lot of confusion about this rule because a lot of people say if you made more than 150 grand a year this is only about that W2. You can have a side hustle your spouse can have income your adjusted gross income could be 300 grand for that year. But if your W 2 from that employer where that 401 exists is 150K, that's all we're looking at. Okay. Um so if you made you know 120 grand at that company cool you can still do a traditional catch up contribution if you want it. Now the why behind this, I know you're thinking like Matt, I thought you said Roth accounts are not for the rich. Now Congress is making those people who make more than 150 grand, if they want to do ketchup contributions, they have to do Roth contributions. How do you make sense of that? This is part of the One Big Beautiful bill. In the One Big Beautiful bill one of the things they didn't secure 2.0 is they made more tax cuts. They had to raise revenue by forcing people to do Roth contributions instead of traditional it raises revenue for the government. Congress loves that so there's this whole concept in DC right now of Rothhification is what they call it, which I actually love, where the government's like we should stop letting people do traditional accounts because they take a deduction and the and the government takes in less money now. Congress doesn't care about their revenue in 10, 20, 30 years. The House members and senators won't be there. They can't spend that money that's some other Congress's problem to worry about. So the Roth they don't care about that. They care about tax revenue they're collecting now and next year that they get a spend. So that's the concept on this they wanted to raise revenue that's why they force you to do Roth contributions because you don't get a tax deduction on this this is for high income earners making more than 150K a year. They're typically in a higher tax bracket so their deductions are more value As well. Okay, 2026 catch up amount is it was 8,000.

SPEAKER_02: 40:04

What I was getting confused on was the super catch-up.

SPEAKER_01: 40:07

There you go.

SPEAKER_02: 40:08

Which is 11,250. And that's for people who are over the age of 60 in the 60 to 63 range.

SPEAKER_01: 40:14

Okay. All right. So 8,000, that's the 2026 catch up contribution amount in your 401k, solo K or employer 401k. Um, and there is that super contribution. If you're in that was four years, 60 to 63, where that's your age, um, you actually get to put over 11 grand, 11,250.

SPEAKER_02: 40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 40:33

11250. That's the super ketchup contribution. That's another new thing that came about. But again, that will be subject to the Roth requirement too. If you're more than 150K W2. Yes. All right. Now let's come back and I want to summarize all these pieces here, and then we'll take any questions you guys might have. If you're thinking about year end, I want you to think about the matching out of your 401k at work. Make sure you're getting the maximum deduction from that 401k. Second, then let's look at the employee contribution. Is there more employee contribution dollars I can get in? Third, maybe you need to do a mega backdoor Roth 401k. I actually didn't talk about that one yet. Let's pin that. I'm going to come back to that. Okay. Backdoor Roth IRA or regular Roth IRA. Where are you at income? Did you make more than 150K single? You need to be doing backdoor Roth Ira. More than 236 married adjusted gross filing joint. You need to do backdoor Roth Area. You can't do a regular Roth IRA contribution. One other note here we have in just the checklist here is HSA eligibility. You need to have done that by December 1st to have a qualifying healthcare plan to be able to make a 2025 HSA contribution, not due until April 15th, but your eligibility, that HSA high deductible plan needs to be in effect by 12.1. There's also, by the way, if you can make a four-year contribution if you had that plan in effect by 12.1. Next, Roth conversions. Remember chunking. Let's break this up. Do I want to get this in on my 2025 tax return to split the tax burn up over multiple years? And then another one here that we didn't talk about is for any of you that have kids that work in your business or on your rental properties, any of you business owners, you should be paying your kids for that work, taking a tax deduction, and then you can open up a kids Roth IRA for them. Okay. We have kids Roth IRAs at directed IRA. They could be crypto Roth IRAs, they can be self-directed into real estate or other deals. Um, but you can be doing kids' Roth IRA accounts. Now, a kid must have earned income. So you must be paying them from the business or from a rental property, whatever it is. So they have earned income. Um, they could have a summer job or even they have a part-time job. They might work at the mall or a restaurant or whatever. Yeah, I don't know, some of these like uh teenager jobs. And um, they're spending that money, but that's earned income too that you could actually then let's say they made five grand through the year at their part-time job, they're in high school, whatever it is, and they spend all that money. Well, you could drop five grand into a Roth IRA for them because that is earned income still. So it doesn't have to be the five grand they made, they just have to have the earned income through the year. Okay, so those are some uh things to worry about by year end. I'm gonna come back to the mega backdoor Roth. That's a big one. Can't believe I skipped that. Okay, April 15th deadline. Remember that's your traditional IRAs, Roth IRA, even the backdoor Roth IRA. You don't get to file an extension and get an extension of time to do the IRA contributions. Those are due on April 15th. Um, for any of you solo K owners, you can still make those contributions. You may not be able to maximize, but you do get the tax return deadline extension as well. It's based on your company return, not your personal return, your company return. So if you're an S-corp, that will be March 15th plus extension up to September 15th, of when you can get solo K contributions in for 2025.

SPEAKER_02: 43:51

I have a question in there from an anonymous attendee to talk about the matter backdoor, right?

SPEAKER_01: 43:55

The same anonymous attendee? Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 43:56

I mean, they have the same name, so I assume it's the same person.

SPEAKER_01: 43:59

Okay. Um, well, anonymous attendees just like a default if you click the button to say, I don't want to say my name, you know. Okay. All right, which is fine. Same last name, attendee. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, we need we need there's like I think there's like an AA meeting for anonymous attendees. Oh, okay. There's a meeting. All you guys need to go and attend to and say, Hi, my name is Matt. I'm an anonymous attendee. But then you're not anonymous anymore.

SPEAKER_02: 44:30

But then you're not anonymous anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 44:31

Well, amongst amongst other AA members. Okay, okay. Because it's a circle of trust.

SPEAKER_02: 44:35

You know what I mean? Yeah. Are you a part of it? No. All right.

SPEAKER_01: 44:39

Okay. That might not have been funny at all. I don't know. Daniel's maybe giving me some courtesy laughs here. Okay. I thought that was pretty good. Okay. We'll we'll edit that for the recording. Okay. Um, mega backdoor Roth. Okay. Great question. And that is something you want to be making sure you are hyper-focused on by year end. A lot of our clients that do mega backdoor Roth to do it with their employer 401k, or maybe it's their spouse's 401k. You can do it in a solo K as well. The mega backdoor Roth is something you're going to do if you're trying to get a lot of money in. You've already maxed out your regular employee contributions. You've gotten your match from the employer 401k where you work, or this could be your spouse's. And you're like, hey, I've got 30 grand in for my 401k through the year, through my own contributions, through the match, I've got 30 grand in, but I still have another 40K to go to get up to 70, but the company doesn't match anymore. And I can't put in any regular employee contributions anymore. What else can I do? Well, you can do the mega backdoor Roth. Okay. The next thing you can do, over 60% of 401k plans allow for something called an after-tax employee contribution. This is a this is not a deductible contribution. Okay. This is not a Roth contribution. It's an after-tax employee contribution. So let's say that I had already put in 30 grand through the year. I have another 70, sorry, I have another 40K to go to get me to the total 70K max that you can put in a 401k for 2025. So I could drop 40 grand in after-tax employee contributions into the company 401k. That money is not hostage in the 401k. You can roll after-tax employee contributions out to a Roth IRA, where that's a directed IRA or a brokerage IRA, doesn't matter. But that is the mega backdoor Roth. It essentially is enabled by doing an after-tax employee contribution, as long as your plan allows for it. Most of them do. There's still some that don't. You've got to do this by year end because your plan administrator and an employer 401k at a job that you might have is not going to let you execute on this in 2026. So we got to get this done now. Now, again, this is not going to get withheld from a paycheck. You might be thinking, well, Matt, my regular 401k contributions, I had it scheduled out. So it was withheld from my paycheck and I was getting the match, and yeah. So how do I get this in now? Most 401k providers allow you to send money into the 401k. It's not getting deducted from your paycheck. You're ACHing, or if you're doing it this time of year, wiring the money to get it in as a contribution in for 2025. Now, the rollout part to a Roth IRA is what most people will do. In a Mega Macdoor Roth, the concept is why would I let that money stay in my 401k where I have some target date funds or some mutual funds? I'd rather that money get out to a Roth IRA. Now in 2014, the IRS put out some guidance on this and said, hey, after tax employee contributions can leave the 401k and they can get rolled directly into a Roth IRA, no conversion, no Roth conversion, and they are Roth IRA dollars. Now you never took a deduction on it. That's because it's after tax. Pre-tax would mean you took a deduction. So it's after tax. You didn't take a deduction to put the 40K in. It has to hit the 401k in an after tax bucket of dollars, and then it can get rolled out to a Roth IRA account. All right. Now again, that's a December 31st thing because your employer 401k, they think in terms of we've got to get everything done by December 31st, and they do. So you're not executing on the megaback to a Roth in an employer 401k in 2026 for 2025 contributions. However, solo K owners, you don't need to worry about it by year end, okay? Because you can get your contributions in later. Now, if you're an S-corp owner, I'd still try to do this by January because even your after-tax employee contributions, your regular employee contributions, these are all going on your W-2 to be recorded properly. Uh so don't be delaying on this strategy, even if you're a solo K owner. But that would be the mega backdoor Roth. Um it requires these after-tax contributions. Check with your plan administrator on that. Um the I've probably were I've worked with a lot of clients over the years on this. Um, what I will say, the first thing you're gonna encounter is a lot of no's because that's the easiest answer. And the and and I know you know some people talk to so-and-so in HR. They don't know. They don't know. You know, okay. You've got to go through and break through to a few people. The first thing to ask for is say, I want a copy of the summary plan description. It's called SPD. That will say what type of contributions are allowed. There's usually a box for after-tax employee contribution. If that box is checked, that means you can do it. Okay. And in fact, that's probably the first thing you should do is say, hey, I want a copy of the summary plan description. It's typically available from your plan provider or whoever the administrator is of your plan. And that'll give you the answer of whether it's allowed. Then you got to go through logistics of doing it. In a lot of bigger companies, this is kind of an executive thing that a lot of them do. So they will be used to it. If it's a smaller or mid-sized company and they haven't done this yet, sometimes you might be the pioneer doing it for the first time and it will be a little more painful. Okay. So just know this is not like the 101 retirement account contribution that your plant administrator or HR department does. This is definitely advanced, um, but is a very viable strategy and it's something very common for high income earners to execute on. So that's the mega backdoor Roth. This is done in a 401k. And those after-tax contributions you drop in can get rolled out to a Roth IRA, even though you're not 59 and a half, even though you still work at that employer. After tax employee contributions are not hostage in the 401k plan, all they have to be contributed there, but they can get rolled out. Okay, I'm hoping that made sense. It made sense to me. So if I lost you, well, it is my fault, but it is tricky. We'll do it next year. Yeah, if I lost you, it's an advanced strategy. Don't worry about it. If you're like, Matt, I made a lot of money. Okay, I want to execute on this, I love Roth accounts, I want to maximize this, great. Get to our law firm, KQS lawyers, one of the tax lawyers can consult you through this. This is not something any retirement account company is going to be able to give you enough advice. Now, if you've got a good CPA or account and you're fine, you'll be okay. Um, but if you're doing your stuff on TurboTax or you know, you're using Chat GPT to try to figure this out, um stop, drop and roll, and get someone who knows what they're doing that can walk you through this because it's definitely more of an advanced strategy. So we're here to help. If you need a solo case set up by a year end, a kids' Roth IRA account, you want to pay your kids through the business, you've got to pay them by December 31st. If you want a tax deduction for your business, um, remember the backdoor Roth IRA. We can certainly help get those set up. Any of these accounts, I mean, we're here. We want to be a resource. Daniel's, you know, you can book a call with Daniel.

SPEAKER_02: 51:50

I'm here. Matt, trust me, he brought me in.

SPEAKER_01: 51:52

Yeah. I mean, you know, so we want to make sure we can help you. Um, because this is one of the greatest ways to grow and build wealth using retirement accounts that have tax-advantaged funds in them, whether it's Roth account, growing and coming out, no tax, or it's a traditional account, you got a tax deduction for it's growing tax deferred. These are tax-advantaged accounts. There's$45 trillion in U.S. retirement accounts. It's been a staple way for people to grow and build wealth in America. And we let you invest it in what you want to invest in. You want to buy a stock or mutual fund? Knock yourself out. But most clients here, they're investing in real estate or a private asset or crypto, a fund, whatever it is. That's the um open architecture investment we allow here at directed IRA. Um, get over here to book a call, directed IRA.com slash appointment. Remember to use the promo code HOLIDAY150. That'll save you 150 bucks. Daniel would love to talk to you.

SPEAKER_02: 52:45

I love talking to everybody.

SPEAKER_01: 52:48

All right. Any other final questions? We got maybe one minute.

SPEAKER_02: 52:51

Yeah, let's uh can I can I try and get as many as we can and I'll just I'll stop you. I'll be like, Matt, you're you're going into the weed. Stop it. Okay. Uh can I tax, can a tax-deferred annuity I earned before I participated in it in my def defined contribution IRA be converted over to my self-directed Roth?

SPEAKER_01: 53:10

No.

SPEAKER_02: 53:10

Next question. Solo 401k, can the company, either a C or S Corp, take an expense for tax purposes?

SPEAKER_01: 53:19

The company's contributing to the 401k?

SPEAKER_02: 53:22

Yeah, that's what I believe.

SPEAKER_01: 53:24

If it's traditional dollars, so if the company match that you did as traditional dollars, actually let me say this either way, the company takes the tax deduction. There's a new rule. This is again secure 2.0. This went to fact two years ago, actually, this one, where the company can do a Roth match. And in that case, the company does take a deduction, but 1099's you, so you pick the income back up if you did employer contributions that are Roth. Generally speaking, though, if the company does traditional contributions, they are taking an expense to that um contribution.

SPEAKER_02: 53:56

Okay. Can I pay kids earned income in 2025 if my rental properties are not part of any business?

SPEAKER_01: 54:03

Um, I don't know how they're not. Your rental properties are gonna be on your 1040 as a rental property. You have expenses, you can pay people to work on the properties and help manage them. So that's where you would pay your kids if you have a rental property. That is a business. Now, that's to make a Roth IRA contribution form. Yes. Okay, we're not justifying a solo K. It's not a business in terms of like 401ks are you to in order to do a solo 401k, you have to have a business that provides goods or services. Rental real estate is rental income, but you can pay your kids for services they're working on your properties to get them earned income to do a kid's Roth IRA account. Okay, like I mowed the lawn at my dad's duplex when I was a kid. I got 20 bucks for it. That was pretty good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 54:47

I got well, especially back then. Whoa. Exactly. Soda was a nickel, right?

SPEAKER_01: 54:52

Yeah. So it went 20 bucks went a long way. So it was a fight to who, you know. Now it took a day because you had to get out on the other side of town to go do it. And then my dad was there dinking around at the property, you know, all the time. So dinosaurs moved real slow back then. Yes. So what I'm saying here is is that work that's happening at the rental property, you may already be paying your kid. You might need to pay him more in order to make a meaningful Roth contribution.

SPEAKER_02: 55:19

And I think last one to wrap it up, is there a minimum age for a kid's Roth IRA?

SPEAKER_01: 55:23

There's no minimum age, but they have to have earned income. So if I got like a three-year-old that has a Roth IRA, I'm like, what did they do? Okay. I I did Roth IRAs for my kids about when they were 13. And they would come, they literally came to my office every weekend and then cleaned the office for years. Okay, my kids were the cleaning crew. My staff didn't love it, they didn't hate it. You know, it was cute. They would come play office for a little bit too, and you know, the the stapler would be in the wrong place on someone's desk. But um, but I liked teaching them how to work. I would go do some work on Saturdays too. It was a it was for many years we did that routine. But I now had they now had earned earned income and I was paying them out of my business, taking an expense that reduced my taxable income. They now had earned income. They didn't even file a 1040 because they were below the standard deduction. And but they had justifiable earned income to make contributions to a Roth IRA. So I open up Roth IRAs for them. So now some people will do it at a younger age, seven and eight, but they've really got to be working in the business. And you can't just pay them seven grand, the max contribution amount, unless they really did seven grand worth of work. But even if it's a couple thousand bucks, it's a great way to like teach them investing, get them a couple grand if they have worked in your business or on your rental properties, wherever it may be, and um get them started.

SPEAKER_02: 56:43

Especially if you're already doing self-direction, you can show them what it looks like. Exactly. You can start helping them. I mean, that's what Mark does with his kids. I mean, they're older now, but yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 56:53

And just teaching them the principle of investing and growing and building wealth. And I know one of the things we've all seen as investors and savers is if you had a Roth IRA when you were 17 years old, you and you know, now you're 60 and you just put the minimum contribution up, it'll be worth six million dollars. And that's true. But most people read that article and hear that and understand that when they're 40. And they're like, I need a DeLorean, some plutonium, and I need to go back in time to go do that. But you can start now with your kids. Help them, give them a head start.

SPEAKER_02: 57:25

Don't make them be the 40-year-old that looked back and says, I wish I would have done this. I wish I had this.

SPEAKER_01: 57:30

Yeah, yeah. Help them, you know. So um, all right. Well, that's it for us here today. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thanks for those that asked the questions. Thank you, Daniel, for um being an amazing co-host over there. He looks so good. Look at that cinematography there. You look like you'd be on between two ferns. Like Zach Galfinakis could be right next to him.

SPEAKER_02: 57:48

A little bit skinnier, less beard, but yes.

SPEAKER_01: 57:50

No, you're the guest. You're the start. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll take that one. I'll take that one. I'm not saying you look like Zach Galfinakis. I'm saying, but you could be on the show with him.

SPEAKER_02: 57:57

Yeah, my other fern is missing. He just can't see, but it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 58:01

So, all right. Thanks everybody. Enjoy the holidays. Uh thanks for being on. See you next time.

SPEAKER_00: 58:06

And thank you everyone for listening. A quick disclaimer and reminder: this presentation does not constitute an attorney or CPA client relationship. And it is always in your best interest to consult competent legal and tax professionals when conducting your own personal transactions.

SPEAKER_01: 58:23

We also want to make sure you know this is not investment advice or financial advice. We're just trying to give you education, ideas, and strategies you can take to your professionals or conduct your own research on. We'll see you next time.