Roth IRA v. HSA: Which is Better?

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To open a self-directed HSA? Book a call with our team at https://directedira.com/hsa-accounts/

On today's episode of the Directed IRA Podcast, Mat and Mark step into the ring for a debate over two of the most powerful tax-advantaged accounts for building wealth: the Roth IRA vs. the HSA. Throughout the episode, they go punch-for-punch breaking down the key differences, tax benefits, contribution strategies, inheritance rules, and real-world investing opportunities inside each account. Whether you’re deciding which account to fund first or looking to maximize both, this episode delivers practical strategies and actionable retirement planning insights for investors and entrepreneurs alike.

For questions or to learn more about this episode's topic, book a call with an IRA specialist here: https://directedira.com/appointment/

Other:

Mat Sorensen: https://matsorensen.com

Mark J. Kohler: https://markjkohler.com/ 

KKOS: https://kkoslawyers.com

Main Street Business https://mainstreetbusiness.com

Transcript

The Matchup And The Stakes

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome everyone to the Directed RA podcast. This is Matt Sorensen joined by the incredible Mark J. Kohler talking about one of the most critical topics when you're thinking about investing in savings.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Yeah, this is gonna be a fight today. I was like, I'm ready to duke it out. He's like, what? We're gonna we're gonna go hard today. I'm like, yeah, I'm we're going one-on-one. One on one mono on mono. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna which one's better? Many of you ask, well, if I've only got five grand or ten grand, or what should I fund first? Which one's better? Like, what do I need which one for? We're gonna break it all down today. And uh who you take it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Well, we're talking about we haven't even said who's in the ring with us. Oh. I mean, I know we're fighting, but we're fighting for something. And I am fighting for Roth IRA.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah, that's your wingman.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Okay. I'm Team Roth IRA, and I'm gonna tell you why you should have it, why this should be the number one account, the first account you fund before anything else.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Now, take that with a grain of salt, people, because I'm gonna tell you he's wrong, and we are and I'm gonna tell you the HSA is the first one you should be funding, and I got some incredible reasons why. So let's get into it. Because I'm a fair fighter, you know. Yeah, I'm gonna let you go first. You don't take the first punch. The first punch. Yeah. What was it in Yellowstone where Rip and Sony they they he said fight it out and they had to they just punch each other in the face, or maybe it was Beth and that other uh that environmentalist they went at it too. So but no, my dude, I so I you take the shot. Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yeah, all right. Roth IRA, first point here. Um tax free. Uh can we get better than that? You get to pull the money out, tax-free, when you put it in the Roth account. We know I gotta put the money in and contribute. We'll talk about that. But the number one benefit of the Roth IRA, and there's many. I want you to make sure this is not, I got a lot more punches to this. Is it a speech? Are you gonna Okay, go ahead? Yes. Keep going. Yes, this is my time. Okay, get yours.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

How much time are we yielding to the senator from Arizona? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

This is a whole podcast episode. We gotta get a whole episode out of this.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Okay. We got a million, okay. Unbelievable. Okay. So it grows tax-free. I'm ready to follow. Okay, but anyway, go ahead. Okay. Oh, you like paying taxes. I'm just saying, here's the thing. So does an HSA.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

It grows tax-free too for certain things. Okay, the money's gonna come out totally tax-free when you hit retirement at age 59 and a half.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Oh, I can let you take out the HSA anytime you freaking want for a qualified medical expense, and it's a book. Uh number one reason people go bankrupt in America, medical costs. I can take money out anytime I want. I don't have to wait till I'm 59 and a half, and I get tax-free growth too. Pendrob.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

All right, all right. Do I can I point out some negatives at the HDA?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Okay, let's unpack those two first. Okay. So we unpack those a little more. Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Because we're gonna let me beat yours up a little bit. You want to beat mine up?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yes, I won't interrupt you this time. Feel free.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Okay. So I will talk about the negatives of the HSA.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Okay.

Tax-Free Growth Explained Simply

SPEAKER_00 3:04

All right. You must have a high deductible plan. Not everyone can do an HSA. I'm gonna talk later about how everyone can do an HSA regardless of income. But not everyone can do an HSA because you must have a high deductible plan. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Now, I I I did that. I'll let I'll let that settle in. That hit. Yeah, that landed. Okay. Now, what I will say is I do I do want to unpack our first rapid fire there. It was like two quick punches. Yes. You know, like it went hard. Yes. So if for some of you that maybe don't have a Roth or don't have an HSA, I wasn't kidding, obviously was not kidding here. Both are tax preferred accounts. They are part of the IRS code that says if you put money in these accounts, you can invest them. We're talking about probably that trick here in a minute. You can invest those and you don't pay taxes along the ride. You're boom. I can buy a stock, it goes up in value, sell it, no tax, whatever. We can we think of this with the IRAs and 401ks, but it's just still so odd how so many people are still catching up to the fact the Roth grows tax-free, comes out tax-free, and the HSA was built as a pretty cool thing. We'll get more into that, as the same type of account that grows tax-free, then can come out tax-free for medical costs at any time. So I don't know. Do you want to add to that? I just wanted to slow down. Everybody soak that in. That's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Yeah, I mean, I I think the the nice thing about these two accounts, I will say, is we are getting tax-free growth. These are the two accounts, and you can maybe do a Roth 401k, is the only other one that could come close. But these are the two accounts that I put my money in and I invest it. The government's like, go make money in it, go grow it. Invest it in stock, in real estate, in crypto, in a private fund. You can self-direct these, put them in whatever investment you want. When that's growing and making money, you don't have to pay the IRS. Nothing's going on in your tax return. Even though that that investment has income or you sold it for a gain, it's building up in this account. And then when you want to use it, the Roth IRA at 59 and a half, I can pull it out totally tax-free. The HSA, and this is a this is a benefit at any age I can pull it out. You know, I gotta, you know, I gotta that's maybe a block or something. I know that one's coming, so I'm just like, you know, you're gonna own it. Yeah, you know, you can pull money out of your HSA when you're 20. You know, it doesn't matter if you have qualifying medical. Um, but there's something about the HSA we haven't talked about that that I will that I know is coming and it's gonna hurt.

Who Can Actually Contribute

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Oh, okay, okay. So see. All right. Now we talked about that tax-free growth, tax-free withdrawals. You all know when that happens. And then Matt brought up the the insurance policy. Now I want to be a little more clear on this too, because some people would say, well, too complicated. Uh I have to have a certain type of policy. I don't have time for that. I go to work, we go to the lunchroom once a year, and they give me choices. I get the policy that has the doctor I like, blah, blah, blah. Let me just say it's it's very important you understand that where you have your health insurance does not dictate where you have your HSA, when you fund it, where you fund it. So if you go to work and you go to the lunchroom for that annual enrollment meeting, or you're an entrepreneur getting online. I don't know how many places of employment have a lunchroom, but keep going.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

I like this story. Work with me here, work with me. All right. So where are we?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

What is are we at Google? There are people. See, you're an entrepreneur, you don't realize this. There's lunchrooms around here. Okay, so all right. So entrepreneurs online or calling their agent or you're an employee, you're gonna make a choice for your health insurance. And oh, I want an HMO, I want a high deductible, low deductible, and all that. I just want to um like you know, it's not that hard to say, you know what? I don't go to the doctor a lot. I don't mind having a high deductible plan. So if something really bad happens, I got a plan to protect me. But with that higher deductible, I might even have a lower premium. And once you have that type of policy, you're in. That's the that's the key to the party. I can now get in the past, the whatever. I've got a ticket now into the party, and I can go and start investing money in an HSA account wherever I want to form it. It does not have to be at work, it does not have to be at the same insurance company. In fact, most insurance companies they don't even have an HSA plan, they just have the insurance plans. Then you go to like directed IRA and say, hey, I want to set up an HSA. So that's you know, punch there was you know, it was a little hard, but it wasn't that heavy of a punch. I think you all need health insurance anyway. And if you don't go to the doctor a lot, just get a high health plan. You're in the party.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yeah, and even the bronze plans now. If you're self-employed or you're buying health insurance on the individual market, bronze plans now qualify for HSAs. That was part of the one big beautiful bill. So they're more and more common that you can find them. And um, so that is actually, I mean, I I wanted to throw the punch, but yeah, yeah, you can, and I've had an HSA, had high deductible plans. And so let's say you put the money in. I think you made a really good point on the HSA. And I want to just pack it just a little bit more for a second. A lot of employers, particularly if you have health insurance through work, will say, Well, okay, I got the Blue Cross Blue Shield high deductible plan that qualifies for an HSA. And even my employer puts, they incentivize me to get that plan because it's cheaper for them. And they'll tell me they'll put$500 a year in my HSA for me. Great. But it's in this HSA savings account at a bank. And I got a debit card. Cool. Well, what is that invested in? Most of those are in banks getting you a terrible return. They're paying you like interest on it. It literally is a savings account. When you think of an HSA, do not think of a savings account. Think of it as an investment account. They should freaking call it a health investment account instead. Yeah. Okay. You can invest that money. Why would you go let it earn 1% or less? Just like a bank account is a deposit. Let's go and invest it because that grows and comes out tax-free.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Okay, now I'm going to set the stage here. We're right up close to the bell on round one, and I got to get in a punch here. Okay. So, because we're going to finish round one tied. Okay. All right. So you're saying you can't put money in an HSA unless you have the right type of insurance policy. I'm going to tell you, you can't put money in a Roth IRA unless you have earned income. So if you're trying to fund a Roth IRA for your kids, if you're an entrepreneur, it might be able easy to you might be able to, and it's easy to generate some earned income for them, paying them out of the business. But, you know, I've got a grandma, she's on Social Security now, and passive income from investments. She can't put new money in a Roth. Social Security does not count for a Roth contribution. Passive income, like rental income, stocks bonds, whatever, dividends. You gotta have earned income. So I mean, there is a little barrier there. Yeah. That's true. Can you live with that one?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

That that hits that lands. Okay. It's like battleship like B14. You smoke my battleship.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

You suck my battleship. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Okay. That commercial. Yeah. Okay. So that that is true. Now I want to hit a couple things to make sure everybody understands that. Generally, the Roth IRA is for people making money, anyways. Okay. Like we're making money and investing it. Sorry for those out there not making money. I'm just saying if you don't have a job, I don't think your first priority or earned income from a business or employment, your first priority is like getting money in a Roth IRA. It might be getting a job.

unknown 10:42

Okay.

How To Set Up An HSA Right

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Fair enough. Now, you might be uh, let's say you're a married couple, you've got kids, or you have a non-working spouse. Well, actually, that non-working spouse can still contribute to an I a Roth IR, even though they don't have income, because they can count the working spouse's income. So there's a workaround in a couple scenarios. That would be one, the non-working spouse. Now you brought up the kids' Roth IRA. We love kids' Roth IRAs. You can, especially if you're a business owner, because you can pay your kids, take a deduction in your business. They pick up the income, they're in a zero tax bracket, and then they can drop that money into a Roth IRA. We would have all loved that Head Start as teenagers, right? Like it.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Bing.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Okay, into one.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

But here's what here's what I here's what I'll say on this. Oh, you're getting a little punch. I'm Rocky going to my corner, and you're like, yeah, Apollo Creed, you're taking a cheap shot. Okay, go ahead. Actually, I don't know the answers. Can you do a kid's HSA? No, if you're dependent on someone else's insurance plant, then you're in the family. I just let you hit yourself. Set you up. Damn you. What did I fall for that? I don't that was the sucker punch. Okay. You're like, I know the answer. But it was after the bell. It was after the bell. That was that was I tripped on the way. Okay. Yeah. All right. Isn't round two yet? Okay. Yeah, round two. Now, this is this is a good one because you brought up that there's might be a deduction if you were to pay your kids to put money in a Roth. Do you do you get a deduction when you put money in a Roth? I'm sorry. No. Are you stuttering? Is there a Niner in there? Okay. Oh, so this is zero in there. Run back now, everybody. You're watching this on camera. Okay, so if you put money in a Roth, that's great. You got to pay tax on that money before you put it in. Yeah, it grows tax-free. So is the HSA. Oh, you can pull it out. Yeah, we already went through that. But you don't get a deduction when you put money in that Roth IRA. Spoiler alert, with the HSA this year, 2026, if you are married, you can put in up to$8,750. That's head of household as well. So I should say, yeah, if you're ahead of household with a dependent in your home, or you're married with no kids, just have to have this more than one. More than one. Yeah. Then you're a kid. If you're single, it's$4,400. That's a tax deduction on the front page of your tax return. Your AGI does not matter. Who cares about earned income? Does not matter. You get that right off if you put money in the HSA. But there's more. If you're between age 55 and 65, I can put an extra catch-up of$1,000. If you're ahead of married, that's$1,000 each. So you could put up to$10,750 tax deduction on the front page of your return. Now it's growing tax-free, coming out tax-free. That's a that's a trifecta. I just hit a triple. You're only hitting doubles over there. Sorry. Okay.

Deductions And Contribution Limits

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Now I've got a counter for this. If we're talking about contributions, that is correct. No tax deduction on the Roth IRA. And that that is owning that. That's true. I mean, I can't republic. You can't dodge that one. That's just you're just done there. Okay. But now Mark talked about you're maybe a married couple. Um, you can be doing, what is it,$87.50 for 2026? Um, how much could I do a married couple put into a Roth IRA in 2026? Bell's over. Okay. So you don't get danced. Because each person can do$7,500 a year as a contribution. So between a married couple, you could be doing$15,000 into the Roth IRA. If you're age$50 or older, you get an extra$1,100 per person that's over$50,000. So you could be doing$8,600 a year. That's over that's$17,200 if I did the math right there. For a married couple, that's both contributing to Roth. So I don't get the deduction, but I can get more money into it. And if you're single, it's$7,500 versus what is it,$4,300.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

But man, I make too much money. I can't I can't put that in my Roth. So okay, forget it. That doesn't even count because I make too much money. I can't put money in the Roth anyway. Okay. Now this is a punch that missed.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah, that missed it. Yes, that was my fake little punch. Yeah. Now you might have heard that before. Your financial advisor. Maybe you have a crappy accountant that told you that instead of a good one. And so there is an income limit that the IRS has set to say, hey, if you're over this income limit, it's around 150 single, 200k Mary approximately. Yeah, you can't just drop 7,500 bucks into your Roth IRA. But you can do what's called a backdoor Roth IRA, where instead of putting$7,500 into a Roth IRA, you put$7,500 into a traditional IRA. It's called a non-deductible contribution, which means you don't take a deduction, and you simply convert that$7,500 to a Roth IRA. There's no income restriction on a Roth conversion. That was removed in 2010. And so it's in these, in the end, you get the same$7,500 a year. Now we've got other podcast episodes, videos on that. There's a little more detail on that. But the bottom line is if you're a high income earner and someone's told you, like Mark just, you know, threw a wimpy punch there. Oh, ow, ouch. I was throwing you off.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Sometimes you got a jab. It was a jab.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, that was. You remember um Mike Tyson's punch out, Glass Joe? Remember, he was like the first guy you fought in the video. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was a glass joe punch. Okay. He was kind of a wimpy. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. It was not Soda Popinski or what were the other? Those are good ones. Holding those out. Yeah, I can't remember those.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

You know, that's most boxing as I know. Yeah. Okay. So Tristan, into round two. I think we're tying here again. I think we're we're tied. Okay. Okay. Now I've got I've got a new one. Are we into round three? Yeah, we're going round three. Okay. You need more time in the corner?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

I just didn't know if you wanted to cheat between rounds and two.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Let me make sure. I need some. All right. Okay. I would. There's another interesting point. Because the HSA is built for life. It's like life happens. And what is super cool about the HSA that you do not get with a Roth is I open up my HSA and I put some money in it. And I'm like, oh, I have some medical bills. I guess I just better pull it right back out. Now, did you just manufacture it right off? Absolutely. You got your money in your HSA, you got a tax deduction, you want to pull it right back out for some dental bills, some surgery, whatever, go feel free. Or you can just let that money ride. Keep investing that money. Let it grow tax-free, but keep that receipt from that medical bill in the drawer. Put it in a scan it, put it in a digital file, and that's my future medical reimbursements. Because there is no time limit on reimbursing yourself for medical expenses. So once you open up that HSA and you start feeding the meter and it's growing and you're building it, and maybe you bought some real estate in there, maybe you bought some XRP and you're like, man, I want to write, I don't want to sell my XRP to go reimburse myself for a brute canal. I'm going to just put that receipt in the drawer. And once my account hits a critical mass and I'm going to just go grab some tax-free ATM money, you can turn in that receipt to yourself or the HSA company and get reimbursed for that medical bill. So you I got some flexibility. I mean, I'm sorry, how long do you have yet? You've heard you have 59 and a half? There's no oh what?

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Nope. Okay, all right. Now that is a true, that is true. Those are the great benefits of an HSA, but the Roth IRA is commonly misunderstood. The Roth IRA is the one account in all of tax advantage planning where I can drop my$7,500 in and next year, next month, 10 years, doesn't matter the age, I can pull out$7,500 whenever I want. The only amount that's locked up in a Roth IRA is the investment returns and growth that I have to wait till$59 and a half. So if I want that$7,500 back next month because I got in a car accident or next year because I lost my job, great. Take the$7,500. Maybe the account's worth$10,000 now because of investment growth. The additional$2,500 has to stay in the account. I can't pull that out without a penalty. So the Roth IRA is actually very accessible at any age. No medical expense necessary.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

What do you think about that? No, no, it's good. I mean, man, we're exchanging blows here. This is this it's getting it's gonna go to the cards. Is that what they're saying? That's true.

Backdoor Roth And Early Access Rules

SPEAKER_00 19:28

There might not be a knockout. We're gonna need the judge's decision on this. Okay. Now I want to throw a caveat in there. Okay. Because we did bring up the backdoor Roth IRA. Now, the backdoor Roth IRA, pulling the money out early at any age, you have to wait five years because the the a backdoor Roth IRA isn't a regular Roth contribution. It's technically a traditional you converted to a Roth. Tax lawyer geeks speak, what that means is you have a five-year window after you did that conversion of when you can pull that converted amount of$7,500. Just want to throw a little caveat in there. Some of you more advanced people, that's helpful. If I lost you, well, all right.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

I'm gonna throw out another unexpected blow here. Just a little duck and roll. Maybe just something over? I don't know. I'm reaching, I'm reaching, I'm reaching on that. So uh I fund my HSA, and I maybe I had I'm doing a married plan. We're doubling down, we're putting in extra money, we're growing it. One of you's gonna die before the other. And guess what? Your spouse inherits that HSA, and they can keep pulling out for medical the rest of their life tax-free. And if your spouse says, ah, I'm I'm like you know, I'm like George Burns here, I'm gonna smoke two cigars a day for the rest of my life and live until I'm 105. And you're like, I never go to the doctor. You can actually go to that HSA and pull it out money after age 15 and a half, like an IRA. No penalty. Pretty cool. So, and if I die, the second spouse, it goes to the kids' IRA. So this thing's gonna say tax preferred into the next generation, to the surviving spouse. I think it's pretty pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yeah, I I this this is actually a really I'm glad you brought that up because let's contrast that with the Roth IRA when you die. And I actually think the Roth IRA wins on this. When you die, which one's better? The Roth IRA.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

I'm I'm not gonna answer that.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Okay, because here was what happens. When when you die, we will all this will all happen. Yeah, sorry. Okay, spoiler alert. Yeah, we're growing and building wealth, and if you want to leave leave an account on to your family, what's the number one account to leave? In my opinion, it's a Roth IRA. Here's why. Your spouse can get it and it just turns into a Roth IRA in their name. If you don't have a spouse, no limits, it's good. Whatever. They can pull the money out, access it, it's tax free, can continue to grow and invest, it's freaking awesome. Let's say you don't have a spouse or your spouse's Already pre-deceased you, it goes to your kids or other heirs. Well, they're going to receive it in what's called an inherited Roth IRA. And they basically have a 10-year window where they could keep investing it if they want or they could withdraw the whole thing out. But it's still tax-free, whether they take the whole thing immediately once they get the account or they want to invest it for another 10 years and maybe double it. It's very easy for them. I shouldn't say easy. At an 8% rate of return, they will double it in nine years. So if they just keep investing it, that$500,000 Roth IRA you left them will be a million dollar Roth IRA that then they'll pull out totally tax-free. Now let's now let's contrast that to the HSA and your kids inheriting it. I get your spouse gets it and they can use it for their mouth. But if your kids inherit it, it is a Mark said an IRA, but be careful what he didn't say. You picked up on the Roth IRA. It's taxed like a traditional IRA, which means it's taxed on the training. I was ready for this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

You know, you're like little. So I I'll I'll own it. And what Matt's saying is if you don't use it for medical, you will pay tax when that money comes out. Now, if you're after age 59 and a half, there's no penalty, but if you pull it out before 59 and a half for something that's not medical, not good. Tax penalty. Well, and so is the Roth. I mean, you can't for earnings and same thing. Right, excuse me. So, all right, okay, fair.

Inheritance And Which To Spend First

SPEAKER_00 23:24

I've got one more. Okay. So let me put like one little bow on that. Is like if I've got both accounts, just think of you now planning, and you're like, which account should I spend down first? They're both tax-free, so none none of them, neither of them hit my taxable income. I can pull on the HSA or Roth. I would be draining the HSA first. Leave the Roth last because that's the one you want to have the balance for at the end for your spouse or kids to inherit, rather than the HSA. Yeah. Well, I totally concede there for sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah. Always pull from the HSA if you have the medical expenses and you're ready to do that. Now, um Okay, I've got a new one. I don't I don't know if you're gonna pick you heard this one recently. So for US corporation owners out there, what one of your main objectives is to keep your salary as low as possible, to keep that FICA expense down, and then push everything out as dividends and draws. That's your goal. So many people listening, you have that S-corp strategy down. So when you're crafting your W-2 at the end of the year, you can elevate your payroll amount for compliance with the IRS, but minimize the FICA on that payroll with two or three techniques. For example, health insurance. If your S-Corp pays your health insurance, it is compensation for the payroll assessment, but it's not subject to FICA. Well, my friends, the HSA is the same way. So if you're an S-corp owner, you want your S-Corp paying that HSA contribution. It's added to box one on your W-2, but not to box three and five. So now you're saving FICA on top of getting the tax deduction on the front page of your return. Take that. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

I learned something every day. Wow. I learned something from you all the time. That is a good one. That one was like punched to the gut. So I wasn't ready for it. I was like, that's a good one. That's cool. I mean, that's 15% could be in a lot of scenarios. You know, that's uh that I like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Okay. Okay. Now, if we're sticking with kind of the metaphors, let's say if there's the fight going on, we're getting into the fourth round. We're kind of tired. So what do they they start hugging to rest a little, you know? Yeah. So we're both kind of in that mode right now. I want to point this out to remind everybody. Both accounts again, you can self-direct, you can invest in whatever the hell you want. So kind of, you know, bro hug there. Yeah, Roger, I see where you're going.

S-Corp HSA Hack And Self-Directed Investing

SPEAKER_00 25:59

The Robin HR say, hey, we can we can agree on that. Let's take a break. Yeah. You know what? And I think that that's there's let's let's have some common things they actually do have in common. And I think that's that's one where there's there's unity, you know, in that we can invest it and grow it. And and the IRS has said, go use that account, make money in it, invest it, grow it. You don't have to pay us any taxes on it now or when you pull the money out later at retirement for the Roth or for medical for the HSA. And and your options could be stocks, it could be ETFs, it could be mutual funds. That's what most people think about. And that's if you're having it at a brokerage IRA or HSA. But we do self-directed IRAs, Roth IRAs, HSAs at directed IRA, where you could buy that stuff if you want. But most people use us because they want to buy real estate, invest in crypto, a private company. These are all things your IRA can buy. Like we're talking about when we say real estate, like the duplex down the street. So that's what this podcast is all about. The directed IRA podcast is how spoiler alert. Yeah. If you're new here and we caught you on this episode, um, but you're using these tax advantage accounts to do it. And Wall Street's just told you no, invest in this stuff. It's easy. We got it on the shelf here. You type in a ticker, it's in your account. They don't like all this other stuff. It's more of a pain in the butt for them to do. We love it because we're entrepreneurial. We've been doing it with our own accounts for years. Mark's bought cows in his HSA. We've both bought crypto. I bought rental properties. We both bought rental properties, private lending. I've invested in startups and private funds, all these with our retirement accounts, which most people are like, I didn't even know you could do that. Yeah. Yes, you can. And you could use either one of these accounts to do it.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

And Mark and I have done it. Yep. In fact, I talked to Chris Albin last week, my little meth lab rental in my HSA.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Did I say that out loud? Um, it is uh many of you that are regular listeners.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

You don't know for sure where the cash rent's coming from. They're great guys, lots of bling, but it's cash, it's got rubber bands on it. So I don't know where the rent's coming from. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

But it's in my HSA. Regular rent. You know, we just leave it at that. No, but it's in so uh Chris is my property manager out in um Elgin, uh outside Chicago, and he's uh found a buyer, so I'm selling that. Yes, and take that cash and invest it in the range.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

By the way, so the rent was going into the HSA, the gains going back in the HSA, no tax, growing and building the account. Tax-free. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

So, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna bring us home here and say, we're going to the cards, we're going to the judges. Wasn't a clear winner here, and I'm gonna tell you who I think wins. It's a draw. And my admonition for all of you is do both. If you can figure it out with your health insurance plan, if you can figure it out with your earned income and you get the right accountant involved, both of these strategies are freaking amazing. I think it's a draw. I don't know. Yeah, I do both myself.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Yeah. So I'm doing the backdoor Roth. I've done the HSA many years, I've floated between years where I do hide it up the ornot. And so, um, but I'm a huge fan of both. And and both of them have the commonality of tax-free, these are tax advantage accounts. You can be in control of investing in it. Um, so we want to make sure everybody understand the the differences though between the two, because they are different. Yeah, but they're both great. Yeah, and they're both winners.

The Verdict Do Both Plus Wrap

SPEAKER_01 29:23

And see, and when someone says, Well, I'm limited, I can only put$7,500 a year in my HS in my Roth IRA. Well, are you married? Double down. What's your age? Maybe a little bit more. Have you even thought about the HS? Oh my gosh, I could do the HSA. Gosh, if you're a married couple, let's do, I mean how to add this up. If I'm a married couple and I do both the Roth IRA, and I'm over age 50, 55, and I do the HSA, we're at 10, we're over 1007 plus the 17. Yeah, you're you're almost 25 to 30 grand. Yeah. A year. Around 28. Yeah. So you're putting away 28 grand. Almost half of that, which is a tax write-off, and then it's growing tax-free, and you've got different buckets, you've got different ATMs going on. You're being strategic.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

You're like, you're in the ring. Yeah, and this is where you, when you're gonna hit 65, the most normal retirement age, when you can at least get Medicare, right? You can think about these buckets and like the safety and like the peace of mind you get of knowing these buckets of money you get to draw on is massive. And the government incentivized you to grow and build wealth that way. Your money will compound faster in these accounts than they will in just a brokerage account or some taxable account where you've got to pay the IRS and they eat into your gains every year. So we're huge proponents of it. We think it gets you to your retirement goals faster and it'll make your money last longer as well. Yeah. Well, fair fight. All right, fair fight. Yeah, we'll both champs.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

It was just where we we we uh bump the gloves. Yeah. So thanks everybody for uh listening today. Hopefully that was uh entertaining to I mean, you can't make this any stretch. We're trying here, folks. Thanks for listening. Please give us five stars, two thumbs up, share it with your friends or family, and we hope to see you on a regular basis here on the Directed IRA podcast. See you next time. And thank you everyone for listening. A quick disclaimer and reminder this presentation does not constitute an attorney or CPA client relationship, and it is always in your best interest to consult competent legal and tax professionals when conducting your own personal transactions.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

We also want to make sure you know this is not investment advice or financial advice. We're just trying to give you education, ideas, and strategies you can take to your professionals or conduct your own research on. We'll see you next time.