Living Marketing
David Ko has been in the Asia marketing scene for over 30 years, currently working at global agency Ruder Finn managing their digital and branding arm, RFI Asia. Says David, "The thing I love most about people in my tribe is their deep understanding of how branding and communication works, how perceptions are shaped, and their well-honed BS-meter." Conversations with guests can cover any number of topics, but always originate from the distinct perspective of a marketer, or someone for whom marketing is a huge part of life.
Living Marketing
Douglas Young: A Unique Creative Journey to Retail Heaven
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Our guest Douglas Young, CEO and co-founder of Goods of Desire (G.O.D.), joins us to share his fascinating journey from architecture student to becoming an icon of the Hong Kong retail landscape. Discover how Douglas' architectural background uniquely influences his design process and the balancing act between maintaining creative integrity and meeting customer expectations. Did he have family support and what were his inner motivations that drove him to success.
Brand collaboration at its finest is showcased in G.O.D.'s successful partnership with Starbucks to create a 60s-70s style Hong Kong café, proving the power of respecting local culture. Douglas talks about the uphill battle against industry copycats and the necessity of innovation to preserve G.O.D.'s integrity. This episode is packed with insights into creativity, cultural marketing, and the courage to pursue unique paths, offering listeners a rich tapestry of inspiration and wisdom.
Welcome, bebos. Welcome to the podcast. Very pleased to have you here as our guest.
Speaker 1Obviously, I've known you personally for a while but, this is the first formal interview or podcast that we've done before, so for our listeners who are not familiar with GOD which there won't be many people in Hong Kong especially but just a very brief introduction. So GOD actually stands for Goods of Desire and this is a very famous iconic retail brand that's founded out of Hong Kong by Douglas and I believe it was 1991 when you founded it and over the years you've built this up into a very well-known brand, very loved as well, and people love the fact that you are able to blend contemporary fashion and beauty aesthetics with certain aspects of traditional Chinese culture, which is a very unique combination. We all know that you don't just do home decor, you do clothing, do accessories, you do lifestyle goods as well. I think, 100% of all my friends, we all have something for.
Speaker 1GOD, which is a sign of your success. And I know that, douglas, you actually studied as an architect before you came back to Hong Kong. So were you ever an architect or did you go straight into founding GOD?
Speaker 2Thanks, david, for the introduction. Actually, we founded the company, my partner and I Benjamin you know Benjamin as well right, of course Needed to make sure that we mentioned Benjamin, otherwise he's not going to be happy because we really did top out the business. We're both architects. I do the artistic side of the company, art direction, and Benjamin does all the numbers and people and things that I don't want to take care of, that I can't take care of.
Speaker 2So, regarding the architectural questions, we are both architects, and architects don't make very good business people actually, which is why our business is kind of small scale compared with a lot of other businesses that have been around for such a long time, small but beautiful, thank you. But we do have great fun doing it and I sort of, in my own private little, I still consider myself an architect, even though I never qualified as such. I mean, we finished university but we never went through the slog of having to get a license and all that sort of thing. But from a design point of view, what I do is kind of like architecture, but at a smaller scale and dealing with different materials. So I guess traditionally an architect will be dealing with concrete, glass, steel, whatnot. I'm dealing with fabrics, paper painting, but the way to design and the thought processes are very similar, so I don't think my training was wasted. I hope my mother is listening, so she hasn't wasted her investment on my education.
Speaker 1That was going to be my next question. Were you under any family pressure when you said I'm not going to do anything professional? Quote, unquote. I'm just going to start a little shop selling things I design.
Speaker 2Did your family say maybe?
Speaker 1that's not a good idea.
Speaker 2My parents are very good at passive aggressive, so on the surface I'll give you pressure, but of course I'm under a huge pressure to at least not fail the expectations and whatnot. I'm hugely grateful for my parents. I'm lucky in that I come from a family that is, I mean, okay, okay, we're doing, okay, we don't have to worry about our next meal, so I am at freedom to do whatever I want. I have their support as well. So I'm really grateful for my parents' support, both financially and emotionally. I'm reasonably well off. I'm well taken care of, but I don't have a family business that I have to enter. I have friends who are a lot more wealthy than I am, but because of their family business, they're kind of tied down. So I'm just at this really sweet spot. I'm very grateful. I'm really very grateful for being who I am and I don't want to fail my good opportunities and chances and I just want to do the best, and for Hong Kong as well, but for myself.
Speaker 1Yeah, so your family didn't put pressure on you, but did you put pressure on yourself to you know you must succeed. You must be considered a success. Just to prove a point.
Speaker 2No, it's not about success. It's about realizing a certain vision. You see, I don't put pressure on myself to succeed, but I put pressure on myself to realize a certain vision because I get very frustrated if I don't get that. I often wake up with certain ideas, and these ideas have the need to be realized. As a designer, you have certain sort of ways of thinking and certain dreams, and the great thing about design is that you are able, theoretically, to make those dreams a reality. And if you can't, and if you're not getting there, then it becomes frustrating. And then that is where the pressure comes in. I feel that my work is not quite done yet, so I'm giving myself pressure to get it done and get things realized.
Speaker 1And I think one thing that's very interesting is, like you said, as a designer, as a visionary, you have to stay true to yourself and your own vision, your own dreams, right. But a lot of people around you will probably have a lot of opinions and give you a lot of input, in a sense impose their vision on you. How do you deal with that? How do you say no to people? Or do you just ignore them?
Speaker 2As a retailer, we can't ignore our customers or people that have certain needs and opinions. But I think that's the challenge, that's what makes it interesting. It's the way I have to deal with these issues and somehow work out something that is elegant and true and beautiful and consistent with whatever else we're doing. So I find it interesting to having to negotiate restrictions and problems. I think it's less interesting when you're given a black sheet and you can do anything you want. There are no obstacles to tackle. I think architecture and design, it's a performance in solving problems. So I think likewise, the best building, best pieces of architecture are those that are in a difficult site and you see how the architect actually solves situations and turn them into advantages. I think that is what makes an interesting building and similarly with design work. So the more restrictions, the better.
Speaker 1Up to a point, yeah, yeah, limitations actually help creativity, right.
Speaker 2So because you have to be more inventive true, yeah, also through limitations budgetary limitations, time limitations, functional limitations all these things could potentially add to the interests of project and you're famous for being irreverent, right, which is kind of why we love you so much.
Speaker 1You have things like the Delay no More series and all of that, which a lot of people love because it's tongue-in-cheek. And for people who don't know, this Delay no More is kind of like a Cantonese profanity which is very common. Was it scary when you first came out with stuff like that? The people tell you don't do it, don't do it, you'll kill the brand.
Speaker 2It was kind of like accidental. I'm pretty naive sometimes. I sometimes don't know what I'm doing and realize the sort of results, which is probably the thing, because if I was fully aware I might not do it. But I like to provoke. I'm the sort that likes to kind of either create outrage or humor. I like people to react to my work. I don't want to create sort of wallpaper or decorative.
Speaker 1You want to push buttons.
Speaker 2I like to go for reaction Also. I sometimes get typecasted into being the creator of Delay no More, but it is more than that. I guess Delay no More is so strong to a lot of people that people remember it. We also do a lot of other stuff. I think humor plays a huge part in my work. So I think Delano Moore is not about aggression, it's more about humor. It's about the humor of the language Cantonese language and local culture and how local people are able to evolve language and turn it into new things just to avoid official sanction or restrictions. I mean, I remember Delay no More was something that we used to say as kids at school, because I went to a local high school. Of course we were not allowed to say profanity right, but we would say Delay no More and then the teacher would not be able to do anything.
Speaker 1So I think this is that kind of situation is just sort of symptomatic of what hong kong is about, I guess yeah, yeah, you're actually bringing back memories for me, because I also grew up in a local high school and we used to say things like pollen, bang, check, stuff like that stuff like that.
Speaker 2yeah, I guess that's not the symptomatic of Hong Kong. That is what Hong Kong is about, because Hong Kong was a colony and we were under sort of ruled by others. I mean, likewise we're still being ruled by others, so we have certain restrictions imposed on us, but Hong Kong people are cunning and clever and we always get around. We could be like cockroaches that you can never extinguish.
Speaker 1Yeah exactly I don, and we'd always get around it could be like cockroaches that you can never extinguish.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly, I don't want to get too political here It'll get me into trouble.
Speaker 1The resilience of Hong Kong people, I think, is something that kind of crosses all our boundaries. Right, that's something that we will always celebrate. I'm more of an optimist about Hong Kong, but yeah, let's not go into politics. You mentioned people associate you with delano moore and the tangential humor and all of that. Do you feel that you were typecast because people were starting to expect the same things from you over and over? Did that feel restrictive?
Creative Inspiration and Cultural Marketing
Speaker 2not really. I'm not always conscious of what people expect of me. So far, I don't think I've run out of ideas, so I'm always reinventing the brand. So hopefully I don't think people are bored with us yet because I still have so many ideas.
Speaker 2The other day I literally woke up with a complete product idea when I got to the office. It was like all in my head and I'm just like wishing to completely put it out on the table so we can have the physical thing in front of us. When I showed my colleagues they thought wow, this is crazy. We never thought that you'd be doing something like that. Actually, just the day before I never thought that I'd be doing something like that, but I think it's exciting to go to new places. I don't feel that I have this sort of need to come up with new things for the sake of my customers. I naturally do like to explore new things. That's my nature. I'm the sort that likes to do stuff that's not been done before. If I know that I'm good at doing something, then I'm probably bored at doing that thing and I wouldn't be able to make myself do it.
Speaker 1You said you woke up with a new idea, right? Do you know how they come to you? Is it because you read something in a magazine, somewhere and it sparked a train of thought, or did you just wake up in the morning and maybe you were dreaming it during the night? What is your creative source?
Speaker 2So I did dream it during the night. But what happened the night before was I was in this fork with some family members and they were saying what can we do to help Hong Kong? Somebody was saying they went to this ABBA concert in London where everything was hologram. And if only somebody brought back the holograms of Danny Chan and Leslie Cheung and people like that and do a hologram concert, that would be so amazing for Hong Kong and this and that. And I was thinking that would be amazing but it would be so difficult to do because I don't know who has that sort of technique. That was dinner and then I went to bed and then I was sort of dreaming and thinking that I was kind of frustrated by this challenge, the challenge of creating something for Hong Kong that would people to Hong Kong. And somehow, when I woke up I had the idea, I had the solution that it is something that even I could do with my meager resources. That's how it happened.
Speaker 1That's so interesting. That sounds crazy, doesn't it? No, no, no, I want to say very doable, but it's certainly technically possible now, right? So I used to work with a company one of my ex-clients actually was the company that created a series of concerts where they held Teng Lai Kwan as a hologram.
Speaker 1Oh, really I think that was a very famous video of Chang Geun-lun doing a duet with Teng Lai Kwan. Oh right, we were even talking about bringing out some of these other icons and I think we went as far as having a call with one of the very large entertainment companies in Macau to talk about bringing one of these hologram concerts At entertainment companies in Macau. To talk about bringing one of these hologram concerts. At the time, I think we were looking at Tanbakur. We actually had to go and look for who has the copyright to Tanbakur and Dany Chen and all that. So we actually went that far, and then we also talked about Excellent, I need to pull you up with my.
Speaker 2I'll tell you offline. I'll send you some information offline, but it's very interesting because especially in China- so, just to sum up, my ideas come from the need to solve problems and certain frustrations. I get frustrated if I see that this is a problem and it needs to be solved. I'm more thinking about the ways to solve it through design. That is my drive.
Speaker 1So I think one thing that's very interesting is and I know we said we wouldn't talk about politics, but this is kind of a different angle, which is a lot of your design aesthetic is based on Hong Kong culture, right or lifestyle in Hong Kong, but I think, whatever you call it, the Hong Kong brand on a global scale has really changed over the last five years. Has that changed your desire to blend Hong Kong things into your design or has it made it stronger? How has it affected you?
Speaker 2I think what has happened to the world culturally over the last five years was completely unexpected by myself. I never thought that there would be so much headwind against Chinese and Hong Kong culture over the last five years. I thought during my lifetime we were going to be more accepted by the world, by global culture, whereas I feel that there is now a resistance to the extent that, say, you mentioned that we're doing clothing that's based on modern Chinese traditions and style. There was a time when Chinese clothing was hip and cool and whereas now there's a bit of a pushback. It's been challenging. We're getting less visitors coming to Hong Kong because, you know, as a Hong Kong brand, we have a following with visitors from Turkey. We have less of them coming to Hong Kong, especially Western tourists. It has been a big challenge for us, but I'm glad to say that we're still sustainable and it's getting better.
Speaker 2Since COVID has ended, again, I don't think I'm going to let this bring us down. I still have tons of new stuff to put out. Maybe I'll focus more on even mainland Chinese tourists or market Even Greater Bay Area. I think it's a really exciting opportunity because, you know, the government's been opening up gradually. I'm able to drive my car all the way up to anywhere in Guangdong province and I find that the people all along the Greater Bay Area share with Hong Kong a similar kind of cultural background. So I think our market could be more than just Hong Kong. So I think with global challenges comes local new opportunities too. So we need to explore all those?
Speaker 1Yeah, definitely agree. In fact, I was in Zhuhai last weekend. It was very interesting because I went to a few malls and in many of the malls you can find Hong Kong food right. You can find dim sum, you can find gai dan cai and stuff like that. So there's a great love for Hong Kong things, hong Kong culture on the mainland, which is very interesting For you. That's an untapped market because there's a lot of love for Hong Kong things. Like you said, you're not just marketing to the Western world, right, you're marketing to Hong Kong people and Chinese people as well. Is there a difference in how you position the brand towards these two very separate segments? When you're marketing to Westerners versus marketing to mainland Chinese, is there a difference in how you present the brand?
Speaker 2I think we are essentially a local brand and essentially I'm actually targeting people like myself, somebody who's local but with an international outlook. I think with marketing to Westerners, we would need to spend more time to explain what the concept is about, whereas with locals, we don't have to explain as much. Everybody sees it, and I think it's important to keep our one foot firmly on local ground, because I don't want to be perceived as a Westernized brand, a brand that just markets to overseas. I want it to be authentic. I want it to be for Hong Kong people something that they could be proud of. Sophisticated Westerners can see that and then they would appreciate what we're doing, and it's up to them to make that extra effort to understand us, and there are many of Westerners who love Hong Kong culture anyway.
Speaker 2They do love Hong Kong, and so I think Ah yes, and they want to learn more, they want to know more.
Speaker 1So you have an already established base there. What about crossovers? Have you done crossovers with other brands and which are some of the more memorable ones?
Brand Collaboration in Hong Kong Culture
Speaker 2We've been doing a lot of crossovers. I mean things that you would probably not expect, from Hello Chizzy to Starbucks coffee, to Alfa Romeo, to Catholic Pacific, to HSBC. I mean it's just the things that people will find surprising. Actually, we want to give you a brand list of things, that brands that we've crossed over. Each time we cross over, we insist that it is about Hong Kong. It has to be about Hong Kong Because some brands do want to work with us, but they are probably not so interested in the Hong Kong aspect.
Speaker 2Some brands do want to work with us, but they are probably not so interested in the Hong Kong aspect. They're just interested in oh GOD, seems to be a popular brand, so they just want to work with us, but they're not interested in really what we're trying to do. Unless they pay us handsomely, we're not keen. But on the fifth side like, for example, the Starbucks project that we did, which was to turn this Starbucks into a localizer that turned out really well because Starbucks genuinely wanted something different. They wanted something that's true to Hong Kong and they were willing to risk their brand to do it and the result turned out really well because it surprised everybody and it gained so much media attention, and those are the best projects. The ones that risk big are the ones that succeed the most.
Speaker 1Yeah, I would agree and I love the starbucks. So for people that don't know, you actually created a specific starbucks outlet on duttle street in central. That is style. How would you describe it? 70s hong kong cafe I guess.
Speaker 2Yeah, 60s, 70s, that was many years ago. I mean, back then all Starbucks in the world were Koshikata. They were all the same. They had a bit of pushback from the one in the Forbidden City in Beijing because they were criticized for not respecting Chinese culture. And then the Global Chief Executive back then decided to experiment with something they call extreme localization, which is to have a Starbucks in every big city. That is about local culture.
Speaker 2So they picked Hong Kong, because Hong Kong is the sort of city that is not first tier, shall we say, not like Paris or London, where if it fails then it will be very conspicuous. So Hong Kong is a big city, yet we are not quite as conspicuous as those first stations. So it's great for experimentation. And they picked Hong Kong and they picked us as somebody who would be able to carry out something authentically local. So they picked this spot, which was kind of not the most convenient one either. It's halfway up this sort of flight of stairs down the top of the street and it's one of these spaces that they have amongst a lot of other property deals. You know a big company like that. When they do property deals they get given 10 properties that probably over the 10, eight are prime and two are added on that they are obliged to take on. So, anyway, they picked a small spot. They asked us to do something and they really wanted us to do something. That's very GOD.
Speaker 2So we imagined, as a kind of joke actually, what if Starbucks started in Hong Kong rather than Seattle at the same time, and what would it be like. So that was the premise. I came up with this idea of a bingsu, which was bingsu literally means ice room, ice shop, because back then ice beverages were luxury drinks in Hong Kong and I wanted to create something that I remember seeing as a kid, that kind of quasi-Western Chinese style drinks place. I even have to explain to people what a bingsat was, because that was a term that was completely lost to Hong Kong. People.
Speaker 2A lot of Starbucks fans wrote in and complained that we ruined the brand and it's so ugly. Really, yeah, it garnered a lot of media attention. I mean it was great. I mean we didn't do any advertising. The people that flooded in and took pictures and all that and then really proved to Starbucks that concept was a success and they proceeded to repeat it, the same concept, all over the world. So now you have Starbuckses that are a little bit more different than what they were before, but what I got out of it was the great association and also the revival of this idea of Bing Suck, because since then there's been a lot of Bingzhat around and they're not by us, of course and all of this sort of Hong Kong-style eateries.
Speaker 2But unfortunately, a lot of the ones that followed were kind of a bit cheap copies and I don't think they did the concept justice. But unfortunately for us, we were also lumped in with that style. You know, once you establish a certain style, there will always be those that will try to emulate, but they would not have the same kind of energy or passion that you would have started with, so they would always do it on the cheap, they would cut corners, thinking customers would not know, and over time that style becomes ruined by these people and over time, that style becomes ruined by these people. So, which is why for us, people at the forefront, we would always have to innovate and move on, do something different, because we get always ruined by those that copy you?
Speaker 1Yeah, but you got to do it first.
Speaker 2I can't find the best way. Yeah, I don't want to appear kind of bitchy about these copyists, but unfortunately that is the case. That's why we also need to just keep moving.
Speaker 1They say imitation is the best kind of flattery. Right, you mentioned there were probably some crossovers that you wouldn't agree to because they would not be true to the Hong Kong essence of the brand. So what would that be? Would it be like I don't know, jewelry, or what would you say no to? I guess?
Speaker 2I don't like things that pretends to be something that it's not. I mean, that's a very sort of generalized thing. I mean, the reason why GOD is what it is is because we are an authentic Hong Kong brand and we are inspired by Hong Kong stuff and we don't. Our name is very Hong Kong in Cantonese and we wouldn't want to pretend to be, say, from Italy or you know. It's about honesty and integrity, so it's a very sort of abstract. I can't pinpoint exactly. What is it that we would not do? When I see something that's phony, I would sort of shy away from.
Speaker 1I think the reason why I picked jewelry is, you know, obviously I'm just. I have no background about this Brand like Tiffany's, for example, little silver trinkets that are like waffles cut outside, whatever stuff like that. I know that's stuff that they've done before with other brands. Would that be considered counter to your brand? If we're talking about high-end accessories like that? That's where I was coming from with that.
Hong Kong Culture and Creativity
Speaker 2I see, actually I've not worked with a jewelry brand before and I would be keen to Say, if we were approached by a jewelry brand, I would explore what is Hong Kong jewelry and what has not been done before. I think you mentioned gai dan zai and all those Chinese charms and things. I think those have been done to death. So I don't think we would like to do that. I guess that's something else that I would say is that we would like to do stuff that's not been done before. So what I consider in the jewelry world that's not been done before, so what I consider in the jewelry world that's not been done before, is Chinese jewelry, like things like jade and gold and that kind of aesthetic, because that's traditionally associated with the Gordian kitchen and all that. And I would want to take on the challenge to turn that around and give that a kind of cool vibe. So I would work on kind of that direction. Stuff that people go. What Are you serious? Show people how it could be done.
Speaker 1That's very interesting, also because that's something that's traditionally considered quite legacy, heritage, old style, whatever you choose to call it. So when you add a contemporary twist, I think it's unfair.
Speaker 2I think it's unfair in Hong think why is it in Hong Kong that we have to accept that our traditional cultures have to be kitsch and old style? And that was to ask local designers to turn our history and our heritage around and pass it on to future generations? Because if we allow it to be old style and kitsch and irrelevant, then the tradition will be lost and that would be a terrible shame. What I've learned from Western education is that the West is constantly evolving culture so that it's passed from generation to generation. Say in Hong Kong. I think we treat heritage and history as something sacred and we're not allowed to touch it, or we just accept that it's just old fashioned and out of date and we just accept it as that and we don't evolve it, and I think that's a mistake. I agree, that's why we've lost so much telephone as well.
Speaker 1The things that I lost forever. You've done, you know, phone cases, watch bands and stuff like that right. So you're very open to kind of bringing that sensibility to just different formats as well I'm changing stuff that's not that we've not done before.
Speaker 2That nobody's done before.
Speaker 1A lot of people would say Hong Kong is so modernized now A lot of the old cultures are dying out beyond science and so on. Has the well run dry for new things to identify with Hong Kong? I don't think so.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think Hong Kong's always evolving. I'm constantly waking up with new inspiration, so for me it hasn't been bad. I don't know about others. For me, hong Kong remains exciting and full of inspiration, but that's because I see things in a certain way I think a lot of people would overlook. My ideas come from just the street, just walking around, and I pick up ideas.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean things like letterboxes, right? So I think that's a box we're not associated with, oh, being able to build something out of that or make something out of that.
Speaker 2I think that's very interesting when we first started to use letterboxes and inspiration, people thought that, oh, why is so ugly? You know why are you that is? But then again you see it being repeated. Now I'm picking up on the next thing. I'm working on something else.
Speaker 1You are very closely associated with Hong Kong, but some people might say what you've done with Hong Kong culture you could probably replicate for Singapore culture or Malay culture or Taiwanese culture. Is that something you would consider, or are you very, very tied to Hong Kong?
Speaker 2I'm very tied to Hong Kong because I grew up here and a lot of my ideas come from my youth. I know all cultures Taiwan culture and Singapore culture. I mean, these are places that I really respect and they have great heritage but I don't think I have that degree of understanding, so I wouldn't know how to do it and I don't know if it's the same circumstances either.
Speaker 1If I can change gears a little bit, you've been doing this for a while, right? You founded the company in 1991. I mean, the longest I've ever worked in a company was probably, I think, eight years. And especially when you've been doing the same thing for a long time, how do you stay motivated when you've been doing the same thing for a long time.
Speaker 2How do you stay motivated? By being frustrated, I suppose, by not being successful but not achieving what I wanted to achieve and, as you think, the destination is still within grasp, but I'm not quite there yet. So every day I have to strive to get there. So that gives me that energy.
Speaker 2I was just saying to Pat the other day I'm so surprised by myself, by my energy, because, as I was explaining to you, I come from a relatively well-off family and my mother keeps saying oh, why don't you just sort of stop what you're doing and do some investments and stay at home? I could easily do that. So why bother going to work and having to struggle and work on my knees and workshop and getting my hands dirty? Why and I think it's because I do have this frustration to get some of my dreams realized and I'm not getting there. So I'm just like struggling to get there, and that is what gives me that energy To find passion. I guess the word I'm looking for is passion. Encourage people, youngsters, to find what they are passionate about, and it could be something that they are angry about too. It doesn't have to be something that they love. Some sort of frustration.
Speaker 1You can turn frustration into some sort of fuel that powers you throughout life Is respect or self-respect also a factor, as in if you don't do something that you own and that it's exclusively yours, you lose respect for yourself yeah, I, I guess I don't want to be ashamed of having copied someone or not being honest to myself.
Speaker 2I want my things to last and be able to withstand the test of time. So I think I need to be honest, I need to be truthful and virtuous. That's the only way that they will last, because eventually people will see through a sham.
Speaker 1And I think it's really interesting what you said just now about passion being fueled not just by love, but it can be fueled by anger or discontent and those other emotions. Yeah, frustration.
Speaker 2I did half my high school in Hong Kong and the rest in the UK boarding school. You know, at boarding school people will tease you about your culture. You learn stuff about Western history and how glorious everything is in the West, and to the extent that you think what is your own history is somehow inferior. Then it took me all this time coming back to Hong Kong, to realize that, wow, you know, we also have a great history and heritage. It's just that it's never been taught. I was never exposed to it. And once I managed to know a little bit more and delve deeper, I realized, wow, we need to let the world know about this. That again is also some fuel for energy to do stuff. Again. That is kind of frustration as well, because you feel why you need to do it and you frustrate it that the world doesn't know about this and you want to show the world. So I think my energy really comes from sense of rotation yeah, which is probably more motivating or energizing than love sometimes.
Speaker 1So I completely understand, yeah. So for some fashion designers, for example, you know, having their dress on the red carpet at the mad gala is they will say oh, I have arrived, that's my success. What is your moments of success that you are driving towards?
Speaker 2I. I guess I have moments of success. I created dresses for people going to the Venice Film Festival and things like that, so those are like momentary successes. Starbucks collaboration was a moment of success, but those are little steps towards an overall body of work. I suppose Of course you have ups and downs, but I don't think I've achieved what I've set out to do. That's why I don't think I'm successful as such. It's such an abstract term.
Speaker 1What is success, or does it even matter?
Speaker 2No, I don't think it matters, I don't think it's the final destination. In fact, I think it sounds kind of depressing to be successful. I mean, it sounds like you've done everything and there's nothing else to be done. Which is just depressing. There's so much to be done and there's nothing else to be done which is just depressing. There's so much to be done.
Speaker 1So, in a sense, are you saying that the journey itself is maybe more important than the destination, absolutely?
Speaker 2I hope I will never reach the final destination and just keep going and have the energy and health to keep going Wow.
Speaker 1That's a very refreshing take on business and life right. Sometimes it's about valuing the journey versus what are we driving towards?
Speaker 2Yeah, I don't see myself retiring. I don't see myself going public and then realizing a lot of cash and then the rest of my days traveling and relaxing and all that. I see that. I've seen people doing that and I think that really turns them into. I hope these people are not listening.
Speaker 1Yeah, I actually know a few people that after they retired they kind of lost themselves yeah, you really do see them age and lose memory and their life becomes meaningless.
Speaker 2I mean, these are rich people, these people have retired with a lot of that, very comfortably well off, but they're just planning to go from place to place on holiday and I find it really kind of sad.
Embracing the Unbeaten Path
Speaker 1Yeah, it is a bit depressing, so ending on a high note. So my last question to you is, knowing what you know today, if you could talk to the Douglas of 13 years old, what advice would you give yourself as a kid?
Speaker 2To take the unbeaten path, to always go where nobody's gone before and allow your instincts to take you places. You may find it difficult. It will be a lot more difficult actually than to go along the highway, but it will be so much more rewarding.
Speaker 1And you say this to your 13-year-old self. Is it because when you were 13 years old, you were a little bit too much influenced by other people and you were afraid to step off the path?
Speaker 2Yeah, when I first started I didn't think I would have the courage to do what I just said I should be doing. But I would love for somebody to actually pat me on the back and say that don't do it, or you may not succeed, but you wouldn't disappoint yourself or you won't regret it In 30, 40 years time look back and say I wish I did that. I think to have regrets is really terrible.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's very wise. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for your time, Douglas. This has been super amazing and so interesting. I'm so glad we got to talk to you, to your vast experience. Thank you, david, I really enjoyed it Great. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot.