Living Marketing
David Ko has been in the Asia marketing scene for over 30 years, currently working at global agency Ruder Finn managing their digital and branding arm, RFI Asia. Says David, "The thing I love most about people in my tribe is their deep understanding of how branding and communication works, how perceptions are shaped, and their well-honed BS-meter." Conversations with guests can cover any number of topics, but always originate from the distinct perspective of a marketer, or someone for whom marketing is a huge part of life.
Living Marketing
Kevin Huang: Navigating the Future of Media
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We also look into the unique relevance of print media for specific audiences and advertisers, featuring a compelling example of a luxury brand’s strategic newspaper ad campaign. Plus, we examine the transformative impact of AI on storytelling and creativity, offering a glimpse into the future of media.
Hey Kevin, good afternoon. Hey David, good to see you again. Thanks for joining us today at the IAB booth.
Speaker 2Well, I love to be here, thank you for the invitation we're very glad to be able to do this with you on our podcast because, of course, you are one of the founding members of IAB Hong Kong. We're very thrilled and we're very proud to have you here and actually I think a lot of people would be very curious as to what you think of the progress that IAB Hong Kong has made over the past. What is it?
Speaker 1eight years now. It's about eight years ago, I think eight years ago, a couple of us in the industry you know myself, back then I was running a company called Pixels and then Comscore and Comscore, Google, together with SCMP and a few initial founding members we actually had a vision and we wanted, you know, a body, a platform rather, that would represent the digital marketing industry. We looked around in Hong Kong. There was nothing specific on digital marketing. We looked around in the US we saw that there was, and it was literally four people in a room over lunch and said why isn't there such a thing? And so we decided that we would start it. Initially, that initial member base obviously grew to about eight members in total. That were the founding members and we thought that if it was going to be an association, we wanted to be the creme de la creme and we gun for the IAB.
Speaker 1And so, long story short, we actually did not start as the IAB, because that was unavailable in this particular region. We initially started the platform. We were very determined. We started as the Hong Kong Digital Marketing Association, HKDMA. A year later, after its inception, its formation, the IAB Hong Kong licensing agreement was made available. So that's how we made that group, and so that was the impetus. It's very simple. It's a platform to represent the industry. You know, it was tiny, it was growing and we felt that, you know, by getting together, by forming a singular voice, that would be, you know, really, really beneficial as to what the progress is. I wouldn't imagine that, you know, four people in a room over lunch would evolve to what it is today.
Speaker 1Today we have over 100 active members. It's grown from strength to strength. Year after year, we're thinking bigger, we're doing better and we're bolder. And so, as a testament to that, last year was the inaugural launch of the IABC 23 conference. That saw over 500 people attend. That Very successful, Very successful, Very successful, lots of buzz, and that was our first trial. We also did the IAB Digital Awards last year, and that also was overwhelmingly successful.
Speaker 1And so, if I was one of the initial founders, I would say I am absolutely thrilled and happy to see where the IAB has gone, but really I cannot and absolutely will not take credit, because the credit absolutely goes to people like you and the hundreds of committee members who pour their hearts into something that they believe. And, for anyone who is unaware, no one here is getting paid to do the work. We're all volunteers. We're all volunteers and, as a matter of fact, every member pays a nominal membership fee to be a member. You know it gives them some very minor privileges, like being able to attend events and do this, but yeah, I'm incredibly happy and very proud and I hope that the IAB will continue to grow from strength to strength and be the voice for the marketing industry. I think that we've evolved beyond just digital marketing. Digital marketing is the key platform for marketing.
Speaker 2Yeah, you're very modest but of course you know you've, over the years, contributed a lot to the development of IAB Hong Kong and we're very glad to have you back playing a very prominent role this year as well. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about your new role, because obviously you since moved on and you've joined SEMPS, the COO, and this is a very venerated, iconic brand in Hong Kong and you work with a lot of advertisers and brands. How do you approach working with advertisers and telling their brand stories?
Speaker 1Sure, I joined the SMP about a year, 13 months ago. I'm incredibly honored to take on this position. I think the South China Morning Post is one of the most prestigious media organizations around the world, and certainly in Asia and Hong Kong. We're 120 years old. Although we call ourselves a news media organization, I actually tell our clients. We are storytellers and we tell stories every single day For the last 120 years. We are storytellers and we tell stories every single day For the last 120 years, 365 days a year. We go to print, we publish, we're online. So, in itself, the South China Morning Post are storytellers, you know. Yeah, sometimes they're great stories, sometimes it's not so good stories, but we tell these stories. So we are the OG storyteller, if you may call it that.
Speaker 1In response to how we work with clients, we've seen increasing amount of requests from clients in terms of integrating content, marketing or, you know, storytelling into their marketing solutions. So you know and I think the approach that I've always gone to them is number one be authentic. You know authenticity is super important. Yes, you know, we all know no one lives on Peak Road number one all of us and no one flies in a private jet all day long.
Speaker 1So authenticity is important because it's relatable, and also be, you know, have empathy, you know, just understand what's going on around the world. Don't be tone down, sadly or unfortunately. There's a lot of stuff that's not great happening in the world and we don't want to be painting rosy pictures of the world to our tired customers, and just be empathetic and be on the ground is what I tell them. So, and I think you know, you can't run away from those, and there was a session this morning about AI and how that will take on the world. But you know, the key lessons is, whilst it may or may not, we don't know some of the key values about just, you know, being a person to another person, being relatable, being, you know, being a person to another person, being relatable, being, you know, telling authentic stories and just being on the ground. Those things are the ones that work the best.
Speaker 2And I think the South China Morning Post is. It's not just a Hong Kong-based paper, I think it's obviously it has a global circulation and it's very widely known and some might even say that it's a paper record for a lot of large parts of Asia. But I think it's interesting that you were talking about the need to tell authentic stories, right. Are there some examples of certain campaigns for certain brands recently that you're happy with.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely right. The SCMP is Hong Kong's newspaper record. You know we used to be called a newspaper. Many people still refer to it as a paper, but really we're a news organization 35 million unique audience reach every month. They come to the SCMP via thescmpcom and about 45% of our reader base is out of North America. I will draw to you a few examples, examples, and maybe I'll use our example.
Speaker 1So after I joined last year, we launched a marketing campaign to promote ourselves. You know, because it's been a while and you know timing wasn't right. And when the markets reopened, covid restrictions lifted, we said you know, if we want clients to invest in us, maybe we should first invest in ourselves. So that was truth number one. You know, if we want clients to invest in us, maybe we should first invest in ourselves. So that was truth number one. You know, I can't be expected to go and tell clients to pour money into us and we have not invested in ourselves. So that sort of that. You know, just really being realistic, clients want to invest in media companies that invest in themselves.
Speaker 1The second thing is, david, I've been in marketing for a very long time, but I was not a trained marketer. I had not been a client before. I had been very short roles where I played a marketer role, but full P&L. And I basically, in the first hundred days of my role I went around to see customers and they asked all my customers asked me one question Kevin, who reads the SEM and so it got asked to me so often in every client visit that when I said we launched a marketing campaign for ourselves.
Speaker 1It's a very simple campaign, it's called I Read the SCM and we had six personas. We had six real life people that portrayed our readership. And so, you know, the six people were a Singaporean who lives in Hong Kong. His name is Gregory Van. He was from Endowis, he's the CEO, he was born in Singapore, he lives in Hong Kong, he runs a FinTech company. So a very international, asia-based audience. You know, we have a lady called Charlene Martini. She is Hong Konger through and through, you know, but she is, you know, she's over, you know, not a typical Chinese Hong Konger. She reached the SCMP and then we have the typical um personification of scmp, which is expatriate, right, we had alan zeman and then we had a local chinese steve lamb of gogox. We had a student, and so we launched a campaign because, frankly, it was a very simple answer to a question, to a question that I got asked every day, like who reads it?
Speaker 1My view is that you know clients, maybe agencies marketing can sometimes be a bit too far in terms of what you're trying to solve, for In my case, I was just trying to solve, for here's the post that we put out, and these are people who read the essay, and so that was one. We've worked with a lot of banks recently. We've worked with a lot of banks recently. We've worked with a lot of financial services companies. We're starting to work with companies that run events out here in Hong Kong. Luxury watcher juries are big advertisers and they're all starting to tell stories. But I see one thing that's common it's authenticity. So, whilst they will still do very strong above the line, product tactical, you know, they are also now adding a layer of just telling stories.
Speaker 2And I think it's interesting that you say who are the readers, but it's also where do they read it, right? And of course that means the distribution channels right, and obviously it's not just print. These days it's online as well. How do you balance between the priorities of a print edition versus an online edition? Is there a difference?
Speaker 1absolutely there is a difference. So the way the south china morning post looked at it is we are a news organization and we will publish news and make our news accessible to the reader wherever they want it. So, to give you some context, the SCMP publishes roughly 300 stories on a daily basis. Wow, every day we have 300 stories. They could be some lifestyle stories, some news stories, entertainment, hong Kong, china, and all that. And we do all that because we have a very simple mission to tell the international story of Hong Kong to the world, as well as to mainland China, and all that. And we do all that because we have a very simple mission and to tell the International story of Hong Kong to the world, as well as to mainland China, all that. But you know, and so that is our central repository, and those stories online get published, obviously on our website, on mobile, and on social media and within social media. We have Facebook, instagram, linkedin media and within social media, we have facebook, instagram, linkedin. We're trying to get into podcasting, youtube with video, and so on and so forth. So then you go, but, kevin, you guys still publish your paper. How does that work? The paper today is about 16 to 18 pages on a daily basis. Now there is no way you can put 300 stories in the paper. So the paper for us is a curated product from the lens of our editors. They will go.
Speaker 1If you did not have time to read the 300 stories we published, you pick up tomorrow's paper. Our editors, through their lens, through what they feel is most important to Hong Kong and to our reader base, these are the stories that you actually need to read and they get published in print and so that's how we sort of work around the different formats. Each plays a different role and we're all very busy people and we don't have time to read multiple publications and that's how we play that role. You know, from a marketing perspective, we feel each has a role. You know people love picking up magazines on weekends. They still do. You know it's a leisure read and all that. But yeah, you know, let's be realistic, david You're not getting your breaking news in the paper. Tomorrow the breaking news happens on your phone. Give you a push notification, you can read it. You know if that's a traffic jam or you know there's something important that you need to know.
Speaker 2But would you say that the print edition is still pretty important?
Speaker 1The print edition is important to certain types of target audiences. It really depends on who you're talking to. I've had readers come to me. I've had customers come to me and say, kevin, the SCMP print paper is an absolutely must routine. Kevin, the Post Magazine is my Sunday must do right, it's a ritual to them and they do that. And I've had readers who say I haven't picked up the paper in decades. So it really depends.
Speaker 1We've chosen to obviously continue to maintain, you know, our platform of products, including adding on social media, your formats like videos on YouTube and so on. It really depends on the audience and from a marketer's perspective, we see it play one of the many roles within our platform and you know like digital will have a certain role social and then you have print as a part of it. It's very funny, it's no big secret. We had a luxury brand who launched a brand new product and it's not just on SMP globally announced a set of new watches exclusively on the newspaper. It ran in the Financial Times. It obviously ran in South China Morning Post. It ran in New York Times and so ran in South China Morning Post. It ran in New York Times and so I went to the client and I go.
Speaker 1Mr X, why have you only ran this in the paper for your launch? They go because we actually want people to know this and in the digital and social world, in the endless scroll, my attention will be gone in one second or less. But with print, you're going through, you're flipping. They actually ran, they bought six consecutive ads in every newspaper in a row and so that really got their attention. So in some cases, like this luxury brand, they saw good use for it. What happened after is that they wanted to drive sales so that it went digital right. It went social right. You know, click here they started with prints.
Speaker 1The start of it they had a big, massive launch and they only bought a bunch of newspapers. And I go newspapers and, uh, you know, they obviously have that creative format with six pages, right, right. So that was uh, yeah. So yes, there is a role. A role I mean, yeah, digital has a role too, print has a role, tele has a role, and print is something.
Speaker 2it persists right, so it's something you can hold in your hands.
Speaker 1And they wanted to make a statement. I wouldn't say print is the only thing that people make a statement on right. A lot of people buy out billboards in particular areas in Hong Kong, in New York, in Times Square. It costs a lot of money but people buy them out just to make a statement that we've arrived.
Speaker 2Earlier on, you mentioned technology like AI, right? Do you have a sense of? Apart from AI, obviously, which everyone's talking about, even here, what are some of the other emerging technologies or ways to tell stories that could be interesting, that you might want to explore a little bit more?
Navigating Future Technology in Marketing
Speaker 1I think AI is interesting and I think it's the talk of the town. But I was just having a conversation backstage If AI did all the creatives and every single ad would look exactly the same, save for the logo. Yeah, there'll always be someone walking by the beach and say, you know, buy a phone, buy a car, buy something. So I think AI. I love one of the AI companies, the way they call it, the product. It's called Co-Pilot. Right, you know you need to fly that plane. Yeah, we will assist you, but don't think that you're going to just wheels off and that plane's going to fly. We shouldn't adopt that with AI. Don't let it do your thinking.
Speaker 2Don't let it do your thinking for you and we will assess you.
Speaker 1Yeah, In advertising we sometimes have to do research. We have to do post-editing, like the folks here later with this video. Yeah, that may ease out a little bit, but that adoption has to be moderate and it needs to be unique. As to other technologies, I think that would be one of the big ones, but I think there might be opportunities for wearables and, in particular, things like the Vision Pro. I have never tried it. I've seen it online. Understandably. It's not the biggest. It's the biggest, but it's not the greatest in terms of format.
Speaker 2It's still in its early stages, it's still in its very early stage.
Speaker 1What if that becomes a size that is reasonable? I look around, right, a lot of people wear glasses I do and what if this was something that I could tap and say call Paul, yeah, on my wrist, or something it will call Paul, he shows up. I think wearables is an opportunity. You are on an Apple Watch and it tells you many things already, so I think consumers aren't going to be resisting it. I think the issue right now is the format. Yeah, so I think wearables could be interesting.
Speaker 1Ai, but you know, mixed reality, mixed reality but I obviously you know I'm a big fan of storytelling and you know yes, you're gonna call me old school for saying this, but you know, just back to 101. Tell stories, the way humans have always reacted to them, our emotions get into play, right, and how you you know the ties tell the best stories. You know the commercials are like four minutes long, but and you know, sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's sad, but it touches people. So I think it's good old storytelling. I think those are principles, like you know, just empathy, just being down to earth. They don't change.
Speaker 2Last question, sure, what advice do you have for marketers as they face the future? What's your observation and what's your? What do you think they should watch out for?
Speaker 1Don't drink the Kool-Aid. Yeah yeah, you know, I know people love talking about new shiny new toys, as I call them. Yes, and it's great, right. But be realistic, you know. Is that shiny new toy the right thing for your business, right? Is that what you need?
Speaker 2Yeah, Don't change the trends.
Speaker 1Don't change the trends. Is that what you need? Don't change the trends. Don't change the trends. Is that what you need? Does this shiny new toy work for you as a business? It may work for them, but it may not work for you, and it's okay. You know you'll adopt another shiny new toy. So, I think, just be realistic. Just don't drink the Kool-Aid. Think about what you really need. I think that's number one. I think number two is always be learning. Just be super, super curious is what I say.
Avoid FOMO, Learn and Expand
Speaker 1Yes, go try out the new Vision Pro. Go try out the latest toys, go try out Generative AI, but you know. And then go find out for yourself. Does it work? For me? It may, or it may not. And just don't be afraid. Don't break the bank, don't lose the house, right? But yeah, you're gonna try a few experiments and if it works, it works. If it doesn't work, you've learned something that, at minimum, it didn't work for me. You know, good luck to the next guy. He may be smarter than me or do something, but I think that's important.
Speaker 1Don't give in to FOMO right, Don't give in to FOMO. Give it a bit of time learn, learn about it. You know you don't want to put everything in and you don't want to be talking about it all the time because everyone's talking about it, but yet you also want to know and find out for yourself whether this is the right thing to be or not. So, yeah, just you know, expand a little bit, give your team that creativity, Let them learn and be curious.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly, kevin. Thank you so much. This is amazingly insightful. I've learned a lot and I'm sure the viewers will learn a lot as well.
Speaker 1Thank you very much, and it's always great talking to you. Yes, thank you. Thank you All right.