{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":8.79,"endTime":11.91,"body":"Welcome to messy but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":8.79,"endTime":11.91,"body":"essential. I'm Rod Stilwell. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":11.91,"endTime":14.88,"body":"this is the weekly podcast about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":11.91,"endTime":14.88,"body":"the people side of project"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":14.88,"endTime":18.87,"body":"leadership. It's where we help"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":14.88,"endTime":18.87,"body":"you improve your soft skills to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":18.87,"endTime":20.13,"body":"reduce hard costs."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":21.48,"endTime":24.72,"body":"In today's episode, we're going"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":21.48,"endTime":24.72,"body":"to be skimming the surface of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":24.72,"endTime":28.2,"body":"the topic of managing"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":24.72,"endTime":28.2,"body":"relationships. Joining me in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":28.2,"endTime":31.38,"body":"studio today is my brother Dale,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":28.2,"endTime":31.38,"body":"who's both my business partner"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":31.38,"endTime":34.11,"body":"and comes with an extensive"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":31.38,"endTime":34.11,"body":"project experience around the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":34.11,"endTime":34.59,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":36.15,"endTime":36.51,"body":"Hello."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":39.3,"endTime":41.73,"body":"That was pretty minimal."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":39.3,"endTime":41.73,"body":"We'll talk about that. And we'll"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":41.73,"endTime":45.33,"body":"get a chance to say a little bit"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":41.73,"endTime":45.33,"body":"more once we get going on this."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":46.74,"endTime":50.1,"body":"Before we jump into the topic,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":46.74,"endTime":50.1,"body":"though, as is customary in these"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":50.25,"endTime":52.83,"body":"podcasts, I want to talk a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":50.25,"endTime":52.83,"body":"little bit about safety. Now,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":52.83,"endTime":56.1,"body":"typically, we think of safety in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":52.83,"endTime":56.1,"body":"terms of physical things, making"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":56.1,"endTime":58.8,"body":"sure that there aren't wires"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":56.1,"endTime":58.8,"body":"that we trip over, or making"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":58.8,"endTime":61.38,"body":"sure that there's nothing"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":58.8,"endTime":61.38,"body":"overhead that can fall on us"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":61.47,"endTime":64.77,"body":"from a scaffolding or whatever."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":61.47,"endTime":64.77,"body":"But when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":64.77,"endTime":68.7,"body":"relationships, we need to talk"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":64.77,"endTime":68.7,"body":"about emotional safety. So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":68.7,"endTime":72.18,"body":"emotional safety is really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":68.7,"endTime":72.18,"body":"creating an environment for the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":72.18,"endTime":76.68,"body":"relationship that allows the two"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":72.18,"endTime":76.68,"body":"people in that relationship to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":76.68,"endTime":80.97,"body":"be authentic, to be real with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":76.68,"endTime":80.97,"body":"each other, not to be judged."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":81.06,"endTime":84.27,"body":"That's truly a safe"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":81.06,"endTime":84.27,"body":"relationship. It doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":84.27,"endTime":86.76,"body":"you don't disagree, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":84.27,"endTime":86.76,"body":"mean you don't have conflict, it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":86.76,"endTime":90.0,"body":"doesn't mean that you don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":86.76,"endTime":90.0,"body":"challenge each other. But you do"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":90.0,"endTime":93.96,"body":"so in a way that is respectful"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":90.0,"endTime":93.96,"body":"of the boundaries and who each"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":93.96,"endTime":94.77,"body":"other is."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":96.12,"endTime":100.23,"body":"So even though this isn't a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":96.12,"endTime":100.23,"body":"podcast about safety, everything"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":100.23,"endTime":103.11,"body":"we talk about when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":100.23,"endTime":103.11,"body":"relationships, needs to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":103.11,"endTime":107.19,"body":"framed with the understanding"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":103.11,"endTime":107.19,"body":"that those are happening in a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":107.19,"endTime":110.16,"body":"safe, emotionally safe"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":107.19,"endTime":110.16,"body":"environment."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":111.32,"endTime":113.63,"body":"Just a quick thought I read a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":111.32,"endTime":113.63,"body":"quote the other day, which I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":113.63,"endTime":119.54,"body":"found was particularly useful."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":113.63,"endTime":119.54,"body":"And that is that a relationship"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":119.57,"endTime":124.28,"body":"without trust is like a phone"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":119.57,"endTime":124.28,"body":"without service. All you do is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":124.28,"endTime":125.36,"body":"play games."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":127.43,"endTime":130.91,"body":"And when you think of it,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":127.43,"endTime":130.91,"body":"relationships that any one of us"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":130.91,"endTime":134.3,"body":"have had that haven't really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":130.91,"endTime":134.3,"body":"been founded on trust, we'll"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":134.3,"endTime":136.91,"body":"talk about that in a moment."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":134.3,"endTime":136.91,"body":"Probably there's a certain"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":136.91,"endTime":140.57,"body":"amount of game playing that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":136.91,"endTime":140.57,"body":"happens there. So I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":140.57,"endTime":143.45,"body":"get Dale to jump in in a few"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":140.57,"endTime":143.45,"body":"minutes and talk to me talk to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":143.45,"endTime":147.32,"body":"us about his experience with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":143.45,"endTime":147.32,"body":"relationships and projects and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":147.32,"endTime":150.41,"body":"so on. But before we do, I want"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":147.32,"endTime":150.41,"body":"to talk about a formula that I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":150.41,"endTime":153.89,"body":"read a number of years ago and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":150.41,"endTime":153.89,"body":"show notes will give you a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":153.89,"endTime":157.19,"body":"reference to the book it comes"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":153.89,"endTime":157.19,"body":"from. But the formula was quite"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":157.19,"endTime":162.5,"body":"simply r equals t plus v plus d."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":164.04,"endTime":170.97,"body":"relationships, equal trust, plus"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":164.04,"endTime":170.97,"body":"value plus dialogue."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":172.23,"endTime":176.43,"body":"In other words, in order to have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":172.23,"endTime":176.43,"body":"a good relationship, there needs"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":176.43,"endTime":181.2,"body":"to be trust between the two"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":176.43,"endTime":181.2,"body":"people, there needs to be shared"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":181.23,"endTime":185.28,"body":"values in the sense of we value"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":181.23,"endTime":185.28,"body":"each other. But we also have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":185.31,"endTime":188.73,"body":"values that we share in common."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":185.31,"endTime":188.73,"body":"And there needs to be some form"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":188.73,"endTime":192.48,"body":"of dialogue, we have to stay in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":188.73,"endTime":192.48,"body":"touch. In fact, studies have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":192.48,"endTime":197.34,"body":"shown that if you do not have a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":192.48,"endTime":197.34,"body":"minimum of five touches a year"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":197.37,"endTime":200.16,"body":"now that doesn't seem like an"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":197.37,"endTime":200.16,"body":"awful lot, but still five"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":200.16,"endTime":203.31,"body":"touches a year that's getting to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":200.16,"endTime":203.31,"body":"see somebody a phone call,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":204.03,"endTime":208.44,"body":"visiting them, not just a quick"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":204.03,"endTime":208.44,"body":"email, but something meaningful."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":208.44,"endTime":210.57,"body":"If you don't have five year, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":208.44,"endTime":210.57,"body":"don't really have a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":210.57,"endTime":212.49,"body":"relationship, you have an"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":210.57,"endTime":212.49,"body":"acquaintance."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":214.07,"endTime":218.6,"body":"So Dale when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":214.07,"endTime":218.6,"body":"trust, especially as the first"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":218.6,"endTime":222.92,"body":"part of the formula. Share with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":218.6,"endTime":222.92,"body":"me a little bit your perspective"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":222.92,"endTime":226.73,"body":"and where Trust has been"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":222.92,"endTime":226.73,"body":"important in terms of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":226.73,"endTime":229.1,"body":"relationships and projects for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":226.73,"endTime":229.1,"body":"you over the years."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":231.33,"endTime":234.96,"body":"Yeah, thanks. I I would"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":231.33,"endTime":234.96,"body":"definitely say trust is critical"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":235.62,"endTime":239.43,"body":"to those relationships and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":235.62,"endTime":239.43,"body":"critical to relationships on a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":239.43,"endTime":242.82,"body":"project. And I think that, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":239.43,"endTime":242.82,"body":"know, when we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":242.82,"endTime":246.0,"body":"trust, I think what we're"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":242.82,"endTime":246.0,"body":"talking about is an appropriate"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":246.21,"endTime":251.07,"body":"level of trust or the, the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":246.21,"endTime":251.07,"body":"relationship in question. So,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":251.28,"endTime":253.83,"body":"you know, you're not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":251.28,"endTime":253.83,"body":"going to have the same level of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":253.83,"endTime":259.02,"body":"trust for a co worker that you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":253.83,"endTime":259.02,"body":"have for a family member or a,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":259.17,"endTime":262.29,"body":"you know, close personal friend"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":259.17,"endTime":262.29,"body":"or whatever. And that trust may"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":262.29,"endTime":264.78,"body":"not be founded on exactly the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":262.29,"endTime":264.78,"body":"same things, but you still need"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":264.78,"endTime":269.34,"body":"to trust that that person that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":264.78,"endTime":269.34,"body":"you're working with, towards a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":269.34,"endTime":274.92,"body":"common goal has the expertise to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":269.34,"endTime":274.92,"body":"do to fulfill the role that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":274.92,"endTime":279.12,"body":"they've got, that has the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":274.92,"endTime":279.12,"body":"willingness to, to work on it,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":279.87,"endTime":284.19,"body":"that will honor their"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":279.87,"endTime":284.19,"body":"commitments, that is going to be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":285.0,"endTime":290.43,"body":"you know, accessible and part of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":285.0,"endTime":290.43,"body":"the team. And so you know, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":290.58,"endTime":295.77,"body":"you're, you need to be able to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":290.58,"endTime":295.77,"body":"trust them in order for that to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":295.77,"endTime":302.79,"body":"be able to work and trust can be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":295.77,"endTime":302.79,"body":"a difficult Thing within project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":302.79,"endTime":306.57,"body":"relationships, because often,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":302.79,"endTime":306.57,"body":"the people that we're working"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":306.57,"endTime":309.51,"body":"with, you know, are not"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":306.57,"endTime":309.51,"body":"necessarily people we've worked"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":309.51,"endTime":313.02,"body":"with for a long period of time."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":309.51,"endTime":313.02,"body":"So we're having to try and build"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":313.02,"endTime":318.75,"body":"relationships quickly, in some"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":313.02,"endTime":318.75,"body":"cases. And so you know, where"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":318.75,"endTime":321.48,"body":"that trust comes from, and how"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":318.75,"endTime":321.48,"body":"we build that trust can be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":321.48,"endTime":325.17,"body":"different than it would be in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":321.48,"endTime":325.17,"body":"other relationships in our"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":325.17,"endTime":330.63,"body":"lives. So for example, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":325.17,"endTime":330.63,"body":"sometimes on a project, if I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":330.63,"endTime":335.4,"body":"don't know the person very well,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":330.63,"endTime":335.4,"body":"that person may be sort of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":335.4,"endTime":338.97,"body":"borrowing trust, you know, so"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":335.4,"endTime":338.97,"body":"they're, they're coming to me"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":338.97,"endTime":343.29,"body":"with a recommendation from"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":338.97,"endTime":343.29,"body":"somebody else that I trust. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":343.29,"endTime":349.11,"body":"so I'm willing to extend that to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":343.29,"endTime":349.11,"body":"that person. You know, because I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":349.11,"endTime":351.24,"body":"trust the person who's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":349.11,"endTime":351.24,"body":"recommending them, I trust the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":351.24,"endTime":353.55,"body":"person who's told me that they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":351.24,"endTime":353.55,"body":"have the expertise and that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":353.55,"endTime":356.91,"body":"they're great to work with, etc."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":353.55,"endTime":356.91,"body":"So it's not always trust that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":356.91,"endTime":359.25,"body":"I've developed specifically with"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":356.91,"endTime":359.25,"body":"that individual, because I may"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":359.25,"endTime":363.51,"body":"not have known them long enough."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":359.25,"endTime":363.51,"body":"But I do need to have that sense"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":363.99,"endTime":368.64,"body":"that I trust this person, in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":363.99,"endTime":368.64,"body":"order for us to work together"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":368.64,"endTime":370.65,"body":"and be able to relate to each"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":368.64,"endTime":370.65,"body":"other as we work on the project."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":372.269,"endTime":374.369,"body":"I think that's a really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":372.269,"endTime":374.369,"body":"important point, because"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":374.369,"endTime":379.829,"body":"clearly, we trust takes time, we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":374.369,"endTime":379.829,"body":"have to build a period of time,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":379.829,"endTime":383.069,"body":"but we don't want to go into"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":379.829,"endTime":383.069,"body":"even a brand new relationship"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":383.309,"endTime":387.779,"body":"with zero trust, we want to have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":383.309,"endTime":387.779,"body":"a premise that that trust is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":387.779,"endTime":391.799,"body":"going to be there often until"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":387.779,"endTime":391.799,"body":"such time as it's broken, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":391.799,"endTime":396.149,"body":"something happens that that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":391.799,"endTime":396.149,"body":"causes us to question that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":396.149,"endTime":399.509,"body":"trust. So I think that that's a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":396.149,"endTime":399.509,"body":"really important consideration."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":399.959,"endTime":405.059,"body":"Obviously, as we develop and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":399.959,"endTime":405.059,"body":"deepen relationships, our trust"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":405.059,"endTime":408.629,"body":"grows, if we look at the other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":405.059,"endTime":408.629,"body":"parts of the formula, the value"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":408.629,"endTime":412.529,"body":"in dialogue, one of the things"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":408.629,"endTime":412.529,"body":"that comes to mind is that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":412.559,"endTime":416.429,"body":"relationships that we value, in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":412.559,"endTime":416.429,"body":"other words, those relationships"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":416.429,"endTime":421.259,"body":"that we want to stay in touch"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":416.429,"endTime":421.259,"body":"with. It's often because we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":421.259,"endTime":426.509,"body":"share in common values. In other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":421.259,"endTime":426.509,"body":"words, if you believe in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":426.509,"endTime":430.589,"body":"integrity, if you believe in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":426.509,"endTime":430.589,"body":"getting arriving on time, if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":430.589,"endTime":434.909,"body":"believe in doing things, well,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":430.589,"endTime":434.909,"body":"you're likely to have deeper"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":434.909,"endTime":439.229,"body":"relationships with people who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":434.909,"endTime":439.229,"body":"share those values. And people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":439.229,"endTime":442.499,"body":"who don't share those values,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":439.229,"endTime":442.499,"body":"people who never arrive on time,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":442.529,"endTime":445.709,"body":"if that's one of your values, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":442.529,"endTime":445.709,"body":"people who don't share your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":445.709,"endTime":449.669,"body":"same, you know, convictions"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":445.709,"endTime":449.669,"body":"about family or pets and those"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":449.669,"endTime":455.339,"body":"what we're likely to have less"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":449.669,"endTime":455.339,"body":"trust in some cases in them, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":455.399,"endTime":460.169,"body":"less of a relationship, because"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":455.399,"endTime":460.169,"body":"there's a disconnect at a very"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":460.199,"endTime":463.739,"body":"fundamental level. So when we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":460.199,"endTime":463.739,"body":"talk about relationships,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":463.859,"endTime":468.569,"body":"equaling trust plus value, it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":463.859,"endTime":468.569,"body":"not only is this a valuable"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":468.569,"endTime":472.139,"body":"relationship, in other words,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":468.569,"endTime":472.139,"body":"the things that we talk about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":472.139,"endTime":477.689,"body":"are useful. But also we share a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":472.139,"endTime":477.689,"body":"common understanding a common"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":477.689,"endTime":481.439,"body":"platform, we've certainly seen,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":477.689,"endTime":481.439,"body":"you know, people who can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":481.439,"endTime":484.469,"body":"disagree with each other, but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":481.439,"endTime":484.469,"body":"still have a very good"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":484.469,"endTime":487.679,"body":"relationship, because they're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":484.469,"endTime":487.679,"body":"not disagreeing on fundamental"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":487.679,"endTime":491.219,"body":"values. They're disagreeing on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":487.679,"endTime":491.219,"body":"points of order. They're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":491.219,"endTime":494.669,"body":"disagreeing on opinions. They're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":491.219,"endTime":494.669,"body":"disagreeing on taste, but not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":494.669,"endTime":496.829,"body":"necessarily on fundamental"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":494.669,"endTime":496.829,"body":"values."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":497.55,"endTime":500.61,"body":"Yeah, and I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":497.55,"endTime":500.61,"body":"that's a really good point. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":500.61,"endTime":507.15,"body":"it's, I think that your values."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":500.61,"endTime":507.15,"body":"Sometimes the, when we think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":507.15,"endTime":509.4,"body":"about values, in that context,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":507.15,"endTime":509.4,"body":"we're thinking of things that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":509.4,"endTime":513.72,"body":"are very big and very important"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":509.4,"endTime":513.72,"body":"and very overwhelming. You know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":513.81,"endTime":517.23,"body":"I believe that, you know, I have"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":513.81,"endTime":517.23,"body":"I value fairness, or I value,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":517.23,"endTime":520.8,"body":"you know, these these types of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":517.23,"endTime":520.8,"body":"big philosophical concepts. But"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":520.8,"endTime":523.35,"body":"I think that sometimes it's more"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":520.8,"endTime":523.35,"body":"subtle than that. And I do like"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":523.35,"endTime":525.42,"body":"the fact that the, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":523.35,"endTime":525.42,"body":"way in which the formula lays it"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":525.42,"endTime":528.9,"body":"out, it's, it's like, it's this"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":525.42,"endTime":528.9,"body":"plus this, right. And so I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":528.9,"endTime":532.26,"body":"sometimes, in my experience in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":528.9,"endTime":532.26,"body":"projects, especially"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":532.32,"endTime":535.56,"body":"international projects, working"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":532.32,"endTime":535.56,"body":"with people who you don't you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":535.89,"endTime":539.04,"body":"haven't necessarily had any"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":535.89,"endTime":539.04,"body":"relationship with in the past,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":539.52,"endTime":544.2,"body":"is that sometimes those shared"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":539.52,"endTime":544.2,"body":"values can make up for not a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":544.2,"endTime":548.79,"body":"lack of trust, but a gap in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":544.2,"endTime":548.79,"body":"trust. So I don't know how much"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":548.79,"endTime":551.37,"body":"I trust you because I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":548.79,"endTime":551.37,"body":"I've been, I know your"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":551.37,"endTime":554.43,"body":"credentials are good people have"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":551.37,"endTime":554.43,"body":"recommended you, you know, I've"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":554.43,"endTime":556.92,"body":"talked to people who've worked"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":554.43,"endTime":556.92,"body":"with you. So I have this basic"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":556.92,"endTime":560.46,"body":"idea that, that you're going to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":556.92,"endTime":560.46,"body":"be trustworthy in terms of doing"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":560.46,"endTime":562.83,"body":"the things that need to be done"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":560.46,"endTime":562.83,"body":"on this project. But I don't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":562.83,"endTime":567.96,"body":"really know. And I always used"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":562.83,"endTime":567.96,"body":"to joke that the the most"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":567.96,"endTime":572.58,"body":"important part of a project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":567.96,"endTime":572.58,"body":"kickoff where the drinks and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":572.58,"endTime":576.48,"body":"dinner at the end of the day,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":572.58,"endTime":576.48,"body":"because that's where you sort of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":576.48,"endTime":578.88,"body":"got to know a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":576.48,"endTime":578.88,"body":"the people individually as"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":578.88,"endTime":584.94,"body":"people. And so even something as"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":578.88,"endTime":584.94,"body":"simple as you know, I know that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":584.94,"endTime":588.57,"body":"you like to ski or I know that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":584.94,"endTime":588.57,"body":"you'd like this thing. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":588.57,"endTime":591.96,"body":"recently, we've got a shared"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":588.57,"endTime":591.96,"body":"interest and I know that you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":591.96,"endTime":597.24,"body":"have a you know, a good"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":591.96,"endTime":597.24,"body":"relationship with your parent or"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":597.24,"endTime":599.46,"body":"whatever you've talked about"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":597.24,"endTime":599.46,"body":"something like that, that has"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":599.46,"endTime":605.58,"body":"made you accessible human being"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":599.46,"endTime":605.58,"body":"to me, that can can make up for"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":605.58,"endTime":610.32,"body":"some of the lack of trust when"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":605.58,"endTime":610.32,"body":"something happens. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":610.47,"endTime":612.99,"body":"a month later, when we're on a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":610.47,"endTime":612.99,"body":"project, things are getting"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":612.99,"endTime":616.23,"body":"tense, we're in two different"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":612.99,"endTime":616.23,"body":"cities for communicating over"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":616.23,"endTime":620.67,"body":"email, I can easily miss read"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":616.23,"endTime":620.67,"body":"what you've written to me, and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":620.67,"endTime":623.58,"body":"the frustration of that. But"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":620.67,"endTime":623.58,"body":"having that little bit of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":623.58,"endTime":626.64,"body":"something that I know we share,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":623.58,"endTime":626.64,"body":"allows me to kind of look at"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":626.64,"endTime":629.25,"body":"that and second guess my first,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":626.64,"endTime":629.25,"body":"you know, my first reaction and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":629.25,"endTime":633.33,"body":"not necessarily get all upset"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":629.25,"endTime":633.33,"body":"about it and go, Oh, well, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":633.33,"endTime":635.55,"body":"know, I would have taken it this"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":633.33,"endTime":635.55,"body":"way. But I know that this"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":635.55,"endTime":638.7,"body":"person, you know, I've had time"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":635.55,"endTime":638.7,"body":"to chat with this person,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":639.12,"endTime":643.5,"body":"outside of the project context."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":639.12,"endTime":643.5,"body":"And so I, I kind of give more to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":643.5,"endTime":648.3,"body":"that. Even though we didn't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":643.5,"endTime":648.3,"body":"necessarily have greater trust,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":648.3,"endTime":650.82,"body":"that would have been another"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":648.3,"endTime":650.82,"body":"relationship would have allowed"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":650.82,"endTime":653.52,"body":"me to let that go. Does that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":650.82,"endTime":653.52,"body":"make sense?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":653.82,"endTime":657.3,"body":"It does. Absolutely. And in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":653.82,"endTime":657.3,"body":"fact, it kind of brings to mind"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":657.96,"endTime":664.38,"body":"a situation I had a number of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":657.96,"endTime":664.38,"body":"years ago where the, the project"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":664.38,"endTime":670.11,"body":"that I was working on, which was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":664.38,"endTime":670.11,"body":"a $8 billion project, to senior"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":670.11,"endTime":674.01,"body":"members of the team did not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":670.11,"endTime":674.01,"body":"trust each other. And I would"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":674.01,"endTime":677.25,"body":"even go so far as to say at some"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":674.01,"endTime":677.25,"body":"level, they were sabotaging each"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":677.25,"endTime":683.61,"body":"other. And we had spent"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":677.25,"endTime":683.61,"body":"literally, a couple of years"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":683.61,"endTime":686.19,"body":"back and forth with these two"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":683.61,"endTime":686.19,"body":"people at each other's throats,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":686.31,"endTime":691.35,"body":"they did not value each other,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":686.31,"endTime":691.35,"body":"they really didn't get along at"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":691.35,"endTime":695.85,"body":"all. And, you know, the owner of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":691.35,"endTime":695.85,"body":"the project was needed both of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":695.85,"endTime":698.73,"body":"them, they both brought certain"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":695.85,"endTime":698.73,"body":"expertise to the project. And,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":698.91,"endTime":702.39,"body":"and were critical, they had a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":698.91,"endTime":702.39,"body":"history with it, and so on. But"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":702.42,"endTime":705.24,"body":"this was clearly getting in the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":702.42,"endTime":705.24,"body":"way, I mean, really to the tune"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":705.24,"endTime":708.33,"body":"of hundreds of millions of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":705.24,"endTime":708.33,"body":"dollars that we could kind of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":708.72,"endTime":711.78,"body":"point two is being overspend or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":708.72,"endTime":711.78,"body":"whatever, because these two"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":711.78,"endTime":714.36,"body":"people didn't get along. Now you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":711.78,"endTime":714.36,"body":"might find yourself saying,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":714.36,"endTime":720.03,"body":"Well, why were they still there,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":714.36,"endTime":720.03,"body":"but that's a different topic. I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":720.03,"endTime":723.36,"body":"was working with them. And one"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":720.03,"endTime":723.36,"body":"of the challenges as well as to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":723.36,"endTime":726.9,"body":"find that common point Gail, to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":723.36,"endTime":726.9,"body":"your point, whether it's Maki,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":726.9,"endTime":729.6,"body":"whether it's it's a sports,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":726.9,"endTime":729.6,"body":"whether it's family, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":729.6,"endTime":732.45,"body":"whatever. And I use the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":729.6,"endTime":732.45,"body":"technique I use that actually"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":732.45,"endTime":736.38,"body":"has images on cards, and we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":732.45,"endTime":736.38,"body":"randomly select cards, and etc,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":736.38,"endTime":739.2,"body":"etc, called points of view. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":736.38,"endTime":739.2,"body":"again, there's something I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":739.2,"endTime":744.12,"body":"mentioned in the show notes. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":739.2,"endTime":744.12,"body":"just randomly, the code that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":744.12,"endTime":750.09,"body":"came up was a picture of two"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":744.12,"endTime":750.09,"body":"seasoned, clearly an elderly"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":750.09,"endTime":754.47,"body":"gentleman's hands that looked"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":750.09,"endTime":754.47,"body":"seasoned and worn, and they were"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":754.47,"endTime":757.77,"body":"clasped together, you could see"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":754.47,"endTime":757.77,"body":"this big ring on one of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":757.77,"endTime":763.08,"body":"fingers. And they both stopped"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":757.77,"endTime":763.08,"body":"what they were saying, looked at"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":763.08,"endTime":767.82,"body":"the picture. And almost"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":763.08,"endTime":767.82,"body":"simultaneously, they both said"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":767.85,"endTime":773.7,"body":"those hands remind me of my"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":767.85,"endTime":773.7,"body":"grandfather's hand, though,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":773.7,"endTime":777.09,"body":"that's kind of interesting. What"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":773.7,"endTime":777.09,"body":"was really more interesting was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":777.09,"endTime":780.66,"body":"that what happened next, they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":777.09,"endTime":780.66,"body":"both said, I was really raised"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":780.66,"endTime":784.35,"body":"by my grandfather, my father was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":780.66,"endTime":784.35,"body":"seldom around or not even in the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":784.35,"endTime":788.4,"body":"picture. And it was my"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":784.35,"endTime":788.4,"body":"grandfather who raised me. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":788.4,"endTime":792.54,"body":"the other fellow said, really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":788.4,"endTime":792.54,"body":"mine too. And all of a sudden,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":792.54,"endTime":795.06,"body":"we're talking about grandfathers"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":792.54,"endTime":795.06,"body":"and the challenges of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":795.06,"endTime":797.58,"body":"grandfathers raising you and how"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":795.06,"endTime":797.58,"body":"much they love them, and blah,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":797.58,"endTime":801.51,"body":"blah, blah, blah, blah. And, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":797.58,"endTime":801.51,"body":"know, that was a connection,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":802.08,"endTime":806.82,"body":"that created the value, they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":802.08,"endTime":806.82,"body":"both now saw that they shared a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":806.82,"endTime":812.01,"body":"common value, which was being"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":806.82,"endTime":812.01,"body":"raised by a grandfather. And,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":812.22,"endTime":813.96,"body":"you know, that was the tipping"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":812.22,"endTime":813.96,"body":"point now Could I have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":813.96,"endTime":816.99,"body":"prescribed that could I think it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":813.96,"endTime":816.99,"body":"was no, you know, to purely"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":816.99,"endTime":819.63,"body":"randomly came across the right"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":816.99,"endTime":819.63,"body":"card. And that's the beauty of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":820.14,"endTime":824.37,"body":"using the right brain to have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":820.14,"endTime":824.37,"body":"visual images and so on. But it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":824.37,"endTime":827.55,"body":"was really the fact that they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":824.37,"endTime":827.55,"body":"connected on something that they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":827.55,"endTime":833.13,"body":"shared as a fundamental value"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":827.55,"endTime":833.13,"body":"and experience in that sense. So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":833.16,"endTime":836.94,"body":"again, we come back to you may"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":833.16,"endTime":836.94,"body":"not know them enough to trust"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":836.94,"endTime":840.0,"body":"them. But at some level, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":836.94,"endTime":840.0,"body":"have to have something in common"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":840.24,"endTime":841.56,"body":"that both of you value."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":842.16,"endTime":845.37,"body":"Mm hmm. Yeah, something"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":842.16,"endTime":845.37,"body":"that humanizes the other person"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":845.37,"endTime":849.9,"body":"in your eyes, right, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":845.37,"endTime":849.9,"body":"stops you thinking of them as a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":849.9,"endTime":853.05,"body":"as a role or whatever or a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":849.9,"endTime":853.05,"body":"obstacle or something and puts"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":853.05,"endTime":855.18,"body":"them back in the context of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":853.05,"endTime":855.18,"body":"another human being."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":855.48,"endTime":858.63,"body":"Yeah, that's I like that."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":855.48,"endTime":858.63,"body":"That's exactly what that is. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":858.63,"endTime":861.06,"body":"that really brings us to the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":858.63,"endTime":861.06,"body":"third component within that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":861.09,"endTime":865.47,"body":"equation, which is dialogue,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":861.09,"endTime":865.47,"body":"talking to each other, sharing"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":865.47,"endTime":868.95,"body":"with each other, understanding"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":865.47,"endTime":868.95,"body":"each other. You know, if you're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":868.98,"endTime":873.6,"body":"not having that dialogue, if the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":868.98,"endTime":873.6,"body":"if it's just you know, toasts"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":873.6,"endTime":877.02,"body":"emails or text messages or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":873.6,"endTime":877.02,"body":"whatever, then you know, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":877.02,"endTime":880.53,"body":"relationship and you pointed out"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":877.02,"endTime":880.53,"body":"earlier, Dale has a plus sign"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":880.53,"endTime":883.95,"body":"between each of those. In other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":880.53,"endTime":883.95,"body":"words, in order for that equal"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":883.95,"endTime":887.61,"body":"sign to be valid, you have to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":883.95,"endTime":887.61,"body":"have all three, you have to have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":887.61,"endTime":890.4,"body":"trust, you have to have value,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":887.61,"endTime":890.4,"body":"and you have to have the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":890.4,"endTime":896.91,"body":"dialogue. So when a relationship"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":890.4,"endTime":896.91,"body":"dialog breaks down, there's an"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":896.91,"endTime":900.57,"body":"unequal sign here. You have a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":896.91,"endTime":900.57,"body":"relationship. If that dialogue"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":900.57,"endTime":903.63,"body":"has broken down. So when people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":900.57,"endTime":903.63,"body":"ask me, you know, I haven't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":903.63,"endTime":906.81,"body":"talked to such and such for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":903.63,"endTime":906.81,"body":"years, they don't really have a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":906.81,"endTime":909.75,"body":"relationship. They know them."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":906.81,"endTime":909.75,"body":"Yeah. And maybe you could come"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":909.75,"endTime":912.57,"body":"back really quickly. But at the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":909.75,"endTime":912.57,"body":"moment without the dialogue,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":912.69,"endTime":913.8,"body":"they don't have a relationship."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":914.65,"endTime":918.94,"body":"Yeah, and and that you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":914.65,"endTime":918.94,"body":"can, you know, you can, the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":919.03,"endTime":922.87,"body":"individual components might"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":919.03,"endTime":922.87,"body":"become more important because of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":923.89,"endTime":926.17,"body":"a deficiency in one of the other"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":923.89,"endTime":926.17,"body":"categories. Right. So as we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":926.17,"endTime":927.88,"body":"talked about what the value is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":926.17,"endTime":927.88,"body":"the same thing with the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":927.88,"endTime":932.65,"body":"dialogue. You know, if if"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":927.88,"endTime":932.65,"body":"there's two people on a project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":932.65,"endTime":935.11,"body":"who've worked with us on"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":932.65,"endTime":935.11,"body":"hundreds of projects together,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":935.47,"endTime":939.4,"body":"we we kind of know each what"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":935.47,"endTime":939.4,"body":"each other's thinking before we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":939.4,"endTime":941.74,"body":"even finished the sentence all"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":939.4,"endTime":941.74,"body":"the rest of that stuff, right?"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":941.74,"endTime":944.71,"body":"We know exactly we can, we can"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":941.74,"endTime":944.71,"body":"carve this off, hand it to you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":944.83,"endTime":947.05,"body":"forget about it, I never have to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":944.83,"endTime":947.05,"body":"think about it. Again, I know"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":947.05,"endTime":949.24,"body":"exactly how it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":947.05,"endTime":949.24,"body":"done. I know all those things,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":949.69,"endTime":954.22,"body":"the dialogue may be less"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":949.69,"endTime":954.22,"body":"important. But the less trust"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":954.22,"endTime":957.16,"body":"the less shared values, the less"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":954.22,"endTime":957.16,"body":"shared experiences, the less of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":957.16,"endTime":960.94,"body":"all that we have, the more the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":957.16,"endTime":960.94,"body":"dialogue becomes important. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":960.94,"endTime":964.21,"body":"you need to over communicate"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":960.94,"endTime":964.21,"body":"over dial on keep having the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":964.21,"endTime":966.43,"body":"conversations, keep asking the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":964.21,"endTime":966.43,"body":"questions, all that stuff to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":966.43,"endTime":969.94,"body":"make up for that, that sort of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":966.43,"endTime":969.94,"body":"lack, which we often have in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":969.94,"endTime":973.42,"body":"these project dimensions, and,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":969.94,"endTime":973.42,"body":"you know, updating the the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":974.62,"endTime":977.83,"body":"Microsoft Project, so the Gantt"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":974.62,"endTime":977.83,"body":"chart does not count as dial."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":978.1,"endTime":978.4,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":980.68,"endTime":982.0,"body":"really? Darn."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":983.65,"endTime":985.81,"body":"you know, I think the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":983.65,"endTime":985.81,"body":"project manager too, is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":985.9,"endTime":988.57,"body":"whoever's managing the project,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":985.9,"endTime":988.57,"body":"obviously, because that person"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":988.57,"endTime":991.96,"body":"tends to have the greatest"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":988.57,"endTime":991.96,"body":"amount of vested interest in the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":991.96,"endTime":995.68,"body":"success of the project, and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":991.96,"endTime":995.68,"body":"meeting the various people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":995.68,"endTime":999.97,"body":"involved, you know, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":995.68,"endTime":999.97,"body":"ensuring the dialogue takes"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":999.97,"endTime":1003.39,"body":"place becomes your"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":999.97,"endTime":1003.39,"body":"responsibility. You may not be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1003.39,"endTime":1005.16,"body":"the one having the dialogue, but"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1003.39,"endTime":1005.16,"body":"you've got to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1005.16,"endTime":1005.76,"body":"it's happening."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1006.36,"endTime":1008.97,"body":"Yeah, I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1006.36,"endTime":1008.97,"body":"really important point as well,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1009.0,"endTime":1012.24,"body":"your dialogue often needs to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1009.0,"endTime":1012.24,"body":"intentional, we're pretty busy,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1012.27,"endTime":1015.48,"body":"everybody's busy these days. You"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1012.27,"endTime":1015.48,"body":"know, if you're listening to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1015.48,"endTime":1020.7,"body":"this, in 2021, we're, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1015.48,"endTime":1020.7,"body":"working our way through a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1020.7,"endTime":1024.69,"body":"worldwide pandemic, and people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1020.7,"endTime":1024.69,"body":"are communicating through zoom"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1024.69,"endTime":1028.14,"body":"and teams, and WebEx and in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1024.69,"endTime":1028.14,"body":"Google Hangouts, and so on, and,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1028.53,"endTime":1033.96,"body":"and, you know, people are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1028.53,"endTime":1033.96,"body":"finding that there's frustration"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1033.96,"endTime":1038.61,"body":"or fatigue coming from the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1033.96,"endTime":1038.61,"body":"virtual communications, but it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1038.61,"endTime":1041.61,"body":"still dialogue. And in fact, in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1038.61,"endTime":1041.61,"body":"many cases, I've had clients"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1041.61,"endTime":1048.78,"body":"say, strange as it may seem, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1041.61,"endTime":1048.78,"body":"have more connection today, even"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1048.78,"endTime":1052.32,"body":"though I'm not allowed to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1048.78,"endTime":1052.32,"body":"physically present with them, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1052.32,"endTime":1057.27,"body":"have more connection, more"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1052.32,"endTime":1057.27,"body":"dialogue, more FaceTime, with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1058.26,"endTime":1062.82,"body":"people around the world, with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1058.26,"endTime":1062.82,"body":"colleagues, family, etc, than"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1062.82,"endTime":1065.37,"body":"I've ever had in the past. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1062.82,"endTime":1065.37,"body":"of course, I wouldn't have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1065.37,"endTime":1069.18,"body":"prescribed a worldwide pandemic"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1065.37,"endTime":1069.18,"body":"to get them closer together. But"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1069.18,"endTime":1075.09,"body":"the reality is, you know, those,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1069.18,"endTime":1075.09,"body":"that dialogue is happening. And,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1075.33,"endTime":1078.81,"body":"you know, to kind of close out"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1075.33,"endTime":1078.81,"body":"on the relationship equals trust"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1078.81,"endTime":1082.89,"body":"plus value plus dialogue part of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1078.81,"endTime":1082.89,"body":"this podcast, I want to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1082.89,"endTime":1088.47,"body":"reinforce that relationships"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1082.89,"endTime":1088.47,"body":"happen because we stay in touch,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1088.47,"endTime":1092.43,"body":"because we share the things that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1088.47,"endTime":1092.43,"body":"are important to us and so on."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1092.64,"endTime":1095.37,"body":"And I'm not talking about a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1092.64,"endTime":1095.37,"body":"Facebook post that 500 people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1095.37,"endTime":1099.57,"body":"see, etc. I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1095.37,"endTime":1099.57,"body":"truly the one on one or one to a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1099.57,"endTime":1104.88,"body":"small group of relationship. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1099.57,"endTime":1104.88,"body":"one of the things that I like to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1104.88,"endTime":1110.67,"body":"do is every now and then go back"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1104.88,"endTime":1110.67,"body":"and look at what are the 60 most"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1110.67,"endTime":1116.22,"body":"important relationships in my"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1110.67,"endTime":1116.22,"body":"life. I call it my nifty 50 and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1116.22,"endTime":1120.12,"body":"I literally have a list that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1116.22,"endTime":1120.12,"body":"that changes because you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1120.12,"endTime":1122.7,"body":"you move in and out in my case,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1120.12,"endTime":1122.7,"body":"different clients come in and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1122.7,"endTime":1125.46,"body":"out, they become part of a very"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1122.7,"endTime":1125.46,"body":"important part of my life and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1125.46,"endTime":1128.4,"body":"then they move on to other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1125.46,"endTime":1128.4,"body":"things and so on. But within"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1128.4,"endTime":1132.03,"body":"that, what I call nifty 50, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1128.4,"endTime":1132.03,"body":"actually calibrate those"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1132.03,"endTime":1137.28,"body":"relationships, looking in terms"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1132.03,"endTime":1137.28,"body":"of the depth that I have in the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1137.28,"endTime":1140.79,"body":"relationship and the relevance"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1137.28,"endTime":1140.79,"body":"of that relationship to where I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1140.79,"endTime":1145.92,"body":"am in my life right now. The"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1140.79,"endTime":1145.92,"body":"role or the position that they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1146.13,"endTime":1150.24,"body":"occupy, in other words, I the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1146.13,"endTime":1150.24,"body":"you know, just a gatekeeper, not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1150.24,"endTime":1154.14,"body":"just Are they a gatekeeper,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1150.24,"endTime":1154.14,"body":"somebody who, whose job is to,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1154.44,"endTime":1160.29,"body":"to filter, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1154.44,"endTime":1160.29,"body":"contacts, are they you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1160.29,"endTime":1163.53,"body":"actually the decision maker, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1160.29,"endTime":1163.53,"body":"the somebody who has a strong"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1163.56,"endTime":1167.46,"body":"influence in the outcomes, etc."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1163.56,"endTime":1167.46,"body":"And then the fourth, I look at"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1167.46,"endTime":1171.6,"body":"his influences, it relates to a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1167.46,"endTime":1171.6,"body":"bigger picture. I was recently"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1171.6,"endTime":1175.92,"body":"speaking with a new acquaintance"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1171.6,"endTime":1175.92,"body":"who was going to become a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1175.92,"endTime":1179.19,"body":"trusted relationship, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1175.92,"endTime":1179.19,"body":"certainly hope but new"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1179.19,"endTime":1182.34,"body":"acquaintance, and when they were"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1179.19,"endTime":1182.34,"body":"introduced to me, the person, a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1182.34,"endTime":1187.83,"body":"common friend who introduced us,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1182.34,"endTime":1187.83,"body":"he said, this is an I'll call"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1187.83,"endTime":1192.99,"body":"him James. This is James. James"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1187.83,"endTime":1192.99,"body":"introduced me to Bill Clinton"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1193.23,"endTime":1199.17,"body":"and Bill Gates. And I thought to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1193.23,"endTime":1199.17,"body":"myself, so it wasn't just that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1199.44,"endTime":1203.94,"body":"James knows Bill Clinton and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1199.44,"endTime":1203.94,"body":"Bill Gates, James introduced me"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1203.94,"endTime":1206.79,"body":"to them. So we had to know them"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1203.94,"endTime":1206.79,"body":"well enough to be able to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1206.79,"endTime":1210.63,"body":"introduce this food party to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1206.79,"endTime":1210.63,"body":"them. And I thought to myself,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1210.87,"endTime":1213.93,"body":"okay, there's somebody, I want"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1210.87,"endTime":1213.93,"body":"to develop more depth with."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1214.56,"endTime":1218.49,"body":"This, somebody, if they travel"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1214.56,"endTime":1218.49,"body":"in those circles, I want to get"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1218.49,"endTime":1222.72,"body":"to know them better. So I looked"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1218.49,"endTime":1222.72,"body":"through each of those, and I use"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1222.72,"endTime":1225.84,"body":"a formula again, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1222.72,"endTime":1225.84,"body":"an acronym and the project world"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1225.84,"endTime":1232.38,"body":"is so full of acronyms. D, RPI."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1225.84,"endTime":1232.38,"body":"So D for depth, RF irrelevance,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1232.56,"endTime":1237.15,"body":"p for position, and I flew for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1232.56,"endTime":1237.15,"body":"influence. And I have a point"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1237.15,"endTime":1239.82,"body":"system and so on. And I'll share"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1237.15,"endTime":1239.82,"body":"that and I'm not going to go"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1239.82,"endTime":1242.58,"body":"through that all right now, but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1239.82,"endTime":1242.58,"body":"I will share that in the show"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1242.58,"endTime":1246.93,"body":"notes. But the point is simply"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1242.58,"endTime":1246.93,"body":"that if I don't have the depth"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1246.93,"endTime":1250.74,"body":"of relationship with somebody,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1246.93,"endTime":1250.74,"body":"but do incredibly relevant to my"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1250.74,"endTime":1255.36,"body":"success, I'm not likely going to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1250.74,"endTime":1255.36,"body":"get much value, because I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1255.42,"endTime":1259.59,"body":"haven't deepened or haven't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1255.42,"endTime":1259.59,"body":"created that trust in a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1259.59,"endTime":1263.97,"body":"relationship. Stephen Covey says"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1259.59,"endTime":1263.97,"body":"that, you know, you need to make"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1264.0,"endTime":1266.49,"body":"life as an emotional bank"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1264.0,"endTime":1266.49,"body":"account, you need to make"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1266.49,"endTime":1270.96,"body":"deposits, before you're allowed"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1266.49,"endTime":1270.96,"body":"to make withdrawals. You need to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1270.96,"endTime":1274.41,"body":"build the trust with them before"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1270.96,"endTime":1274.41,"body":"you can ask them for something."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1275.1,"endTime":1279.12,"body":"I remember, I think it was 18 or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1275.1,"endTime":1279.12,"body":"19, when I had a position to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1279.12,"endTime":1283.65,"body":"sell me life insurance. And you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1279.12,"endTime":1283.65,"body":"know, what struck me most wasn't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1283.68,"endTime":1286.86,"body":"all of the program, etc. It was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1283.68,"endTime":1286.86,"body":"that at the end, first time I've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1286.86,"endTime":1289.35,"body":"met this guy selling me life"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1286.86,"endTime":1289.35,"body":"insurance. At the end of it, he"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1289.35,"endTime":1292.56,"body":"says to me, so do you have three"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1289.35,"endTime":1292.56,"body":"friends you could refer me to?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1293.31,"endTime":1296.46,"body":"And I'm thinking, why would I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1293.31,"endTime":1296.46,"body":"want to inflict you on three of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1296.46,"endTime":1301.05,"body":"my friends, you haven't earned"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1296.46,"endTime":1301.05,"body":"my trust with me to them, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1301.05,"endTime":1304.62,"body":"know, transfer you. Now I will"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1301.05,"endTime":1304.62,"body":"tell you that literally 30 years"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1304.62,"endTime":1307.41,"body":"later, when that same individual"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1304.62,"endTime":1307.41,"body":"was still following me."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1308.0,"endTime":1312.41,"body":"And he was in well into his 80s."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1308.0,"endTime":1312.41,"body":"And he was calling me every year"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1312.41,"endTime":1316.43,"body":"to find out what my status was,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1312.41,"endTime":1316.43,"body":"etc, I had no problem referring"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1316.43,"endTime":1320.39,"body":"him because he had become a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1316.43,"endTime":1320.39,"body":"trusted advisor. But the first"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1320.39,"endTime":1324.83,"body":"time we met, so I think this,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1320.39,"endTime":1324.83,"body":"there's you know, when we talk"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1324.83,"endTime":1329.6,"body":"about trust, trust also demands"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1324.83,"endTime":1329.6,"body":"a level of vulnerability. and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1329.6,"endTime":1337.52,"body":"building relationships means"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1329.6,"endTime":1337.52,"body":"disclosing things about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1337.52,"endTime":1341.48,"body":"yourself, that make you a little"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1337.52,"endTime":1341.48,"body":"vulnerable, but that increases"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1341.48,"endTime":1344.84,"body":"the value. So you know, if I go"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1341.48,"endTime":1344.84,"body":"back to those two gentlemen, in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1344.84,"endTime":1347.96,"body":"the project, who had a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1344.84,"endTime":1347.96,"body":"grandfather in common, if they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1347.96,"endTime":1352.31,"body":"hadn't been vulnerable enough to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1347.96,"endTime":1352.31,"body":"disclose that the relationship"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1352.31,"endTime":1356.12,"body":"would have stayed the mess that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1352.31,"endTime":1356.12,"body":"it was. So trust is also about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1356.12,"endTime":1360.23,"body":"being vulnerable. So I look at"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1356.12,"endTime":1360.23,"body":"how deep a relationship do I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1360.23,"endTime":1364.22,"body":"have? how relevant is that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1360.23,"endTime":1364.22,"body":"relationship to my business and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1364.22,"endTime":1367.55,"body":"personal goals? You know, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1364.22,"endTime":1367.55,"body":"mean, you can look at your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1367.55,"endTime":1370.1,"body":"LinkedIn profile, or your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1367.55,"endTime":1370.1,"body":"Facebook profile, or whatever"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1370.34,"endTime":1373.04,"body":"social media you're on and see"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1370.34,"endTime":1373.04,"body":"that you have four or 500"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1373.04,"endTime":1377.12,"body":"followers or 1000 followers or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1373.04,"endTime":1377.12,"body":"whatever. But when you start"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1377.12,"endTime":1382.07,"body":"looking at them, how many of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1377.12,"endTime":1382.07,"body":"those followers would respond to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1382.07,"endTime":1384.38,"body":"your phone call at three in the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1382.07,"endTime":1384.38,"body":"morning, if you call to say that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1384.38,"endTime":1389.21,"body":"your car was broken down? And he"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1384.38,"endTime":1389.21,"body":"needed help, right? Where are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1389.21,"endTime":1393.23,"body":"they in terms of relevance to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1389.21,"endTime":1393.23,"body":"where you are today. And again,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1393.86,"endTime":1397.55,"body":"doesn't mean you need to drop"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1393.86,"endTime":1397.55,"body":"them off the list. But it might"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1397.55,"endTime":1399.77,"body":"mean that you're not staying in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1397.55,"endTime":1399.77,"body":"touch with them as often as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1399.77,"endTime":1403.7,"body":"those who are more relevant to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1399.77,"endTime":1403.7,"body":"you achieving your goals and so"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1403.7,"endTime":1408.26,"body":"on. The other is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1403.7,"endTime":1408.26,"body":"position at the end of the day"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1408.29,"endTime":1411.89,"body":"in the project world, especially"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1408.29,"endTime":1411.89,"body":"understanding who the sponsor"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1411.89,"endTime":1416.24,"body":"is, who the client is, who, who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1411.89,"endTime":1416.24,"body":"influences some of those"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1416.24,"endTime":1420.62,"body":"decisions. You know, I remember"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1416.24,"endTime":1420.62,"body":"in a volunteer role, many years"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1420.62,"endTime":1424.01,"body":"ago, we had two key people, one"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1420.62,"endTime":1424.01,"body":"who was kind of invisible, and I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1424.01,"endTime":1426.95,"body":"remember thinking, gee, who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1424.01,"endTime":1426.95,"body":"actually makes the decision,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1426.95,"endTime":1429.95,"body":"like, does he go home and talk"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1426.95,"endTime":1429.95,"body":"to his wife? And she really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1429.95,"endTime":1432.95,"body":"tells them what to think and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1429.95,"endTime":1432.95,"body":"what to say, in which case, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1432.95,"endTime":1436.13,"body":"really need to be talking to her"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1432.95,"endTime":1436.13,"body":"because he's kind of useless."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1436.46,"endTime":1441.44,"body":"Right? Now, that's maybe unfair,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1436.46,"endTime":1441.44,"body":"but again, influencers? Who are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1441.44,"endTime":1445.25,"body":"people behind the scenes often"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1441.44,"endTime":1445.25,"body":"do we know who they are? Have we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1445.28,"endTime":1449.81,"body":"been bold enough to ask that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1445.28,"endTime":1449.81,"body":"question? You know, or you just"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1449.81,"endTime":1452.99,"body":"spent 25 minutes trying to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1449.81,"endTime":1452.99,"body":"convince somebody to do"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1452.99,"endTime":1456.05,"body":"something, to discover that they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1452.99,"endTime":1456.05,"body":"didn't have any power to make"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1456.05,"endTime":1460.73,"body":"that decision anyway. And then"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1456.05,"endTime":1460.73,"body":"the last is overall influence."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1460.73,"endTime":1464.0,"body":"And that is, you know, from a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1460.73,"endTime":1464.0,"body":"perspective of do I know someone"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1464.0,"endTime":1469.64,"body":"who knows someone who can help"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1464.0,"endTime":1469.64,"body":"me build the relationship. So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1469.64,"endTime":1472.73,"body":"the example that comes to mind"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1469.64,"endTime":1472.73,"body":"in a book I was reading"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1472.73,"endTime":1477.59,"body":"recently, about Bob Iger, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1472.73,"endTime":1477.59,"body":"President, and now chairman of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1477.59,"endTime":1482.66,"body":"Disney, when he was looking for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1477.59,"endTime":1482.66,"body":"Disney was looking to buy George"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1482.66,"endTime":1487.58,"body":"Lucas Films. He didn't really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1482.66,"endTime":1487.58,"body":"know George Lucas very well, but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1487.58,"endTime":1492.77,"body":"he did know Steve Jobs from when"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1487.58,"endTime":1492.77,"body":"they had acquired Pixar. So and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1492.77,"endTime":1495.47,"body":"Steve knew George Lucas very"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1492.77,"endTime":1495.47,"body":"well. So there was this kind of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1495.47,"endTime":1499.58,"body":"triangle where Bob could talk to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1495.47,"endTime":1499.58,"body":"Steve, who could then talk to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1499.58,"endTime":1505.97,"body":"George And connect them back to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1499.58,"endTime":1505.97,"body":"each other. But the strength of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1505.97,"endTime":1508.82,"body":"the relationship with George was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1505.97,"endTime":1508.82,"body":"built on the strength of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1508.82,"endTime":1512.93,"body":"value of the relationship that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1508.82,"endTime":1512.93,"body":"Bob Iger had with Steve Jobs."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1513.32,"endTime":1518.36,"body":"And so again, when we come to,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1513.32,"endTime":1518.36,"body":"you know, looking at projects"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1518.36,"endTime":1522.02,"body":"and so on, one of the big"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1518.36,"endTime":1522.02,"body":"challenges is, we have to deal"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1522.02,"endTime":1526.07,"body":"with a lot of people who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1522.02,"endTime":1526.07,"body":"influence others. Do we track"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1526.07,"endTime":1529.34,"body":"who they are? And I guess that's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1526.07,"endTime":1529.34,"body":"my point, when, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1529.34,"endTime":1532.28,"body":"terms of wrapping this up, when"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1529.34,"endTime":1532.28,"body":"we think about relationships,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1532.85,"endTime":1536.45,"body":"how are we being systematic"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1532.85,"endTime":1536.45,"body":"tracking, figuring out who we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1536.45,"endTime":1539.0,"body":"need to be talking to? So let's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1536.45,"endTime":1539.0,"body":"just talk for a moment about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1539.0,"endTime":1542.18,"body":"those influencers, Dale, those"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1539.0,"endTime":1542.18,"body":"people who don't come to the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1542.18,"endTime":1547.1,"body":"meetings, but we need to know a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1542.18,"endTime":1547.1,"body":"little bit about them. was your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1547.1,"endTime":1548.15,"body":"experience been with that?"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1549.89,"endTime":1554.12,"body":"Yes, I think you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1549.89,"endTime":1554.12,"body":"have, you know, people in that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1554.12,"endTime":1556.4,"body":"role in, in a variety of places,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1554.12,"endTime":1556.4,"body":"obviously, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1556.4,"endTime":1560.54,"body":"sponsors, and sponsors are, are"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1556.4,"endTime":1560.54,"body":"often a big part of your"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1560.54,"endTime":1565.49,"body":"influencer group, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1560.54,"endTime":1565.49,"body":"often a senior person, and often"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1565.49,"endTime":1571.22,"body":"someone who multiple people on"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1565.49,"endTime":1571.22,"body":"the project reports to in some"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1571.22,"endTime":1574.19,"body":"way or another. So those people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1571.22,"endTime":1574.19,"body":"obviously, and their opinions"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1574.19,"endTime":1578.15,"body":"have had an enormous amount of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1574.19,"endTime":1578.15,"body":"influence. But there's also"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1578.15,"endTime":1584.18,"body":"other people that are"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1578.15,"endTime":1584.18,"body":"stakeholders, and those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1584.18,"endTime":1589.25,"body":"stakeholders, you know, may have"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1584.18,"endTime":1589.25,"body":"may not be formally defined"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1589.25,"endTime":1592.43,"body":"within the project may not be,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1589.25,"endTime":1592.43,"body":"you know, it may not be clearly"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1592.43,"endTime":1596.54,"body":"articulated, that they are part"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1592.43,"endTime":1596.54,"body":"of the project hierarchy in one"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1596.54,"endTime":1603.53,"body":"way or another. But they feel"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1596.54,"endTime":1603.53,"body":"they can exert an off an"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1603.53,"endTime":1606.11,"body":"enormous amount of influence"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1603.53,"endTime":1606.11,"body":"over the various people on the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1606.11,"endTime":1609.38,"body":"project and over the success of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1606.11,"endTime":1609.38,"body":"the project, if they feel that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1609.38,"endTime":1613.7,"body":"they have some kind of a stake"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1609.38,"endTime":1613.7,"body":"in this. And so sometimes, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1613.7,"endTime":1619.31,"body":"know, we, we don't go to the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1613.7,"endTime":1619.31,"body":"trouble of identifying those, we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1619.31,"endTime":1621.41,"body":"never really know, to your point"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1619.31,"endTime":1621.41,"body":"that there's someone in the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1621.41,"endTime":1626.21,"body":"background, who is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1621.41,"endTime":1626.21,"body":"maneuvering the project, or"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1626.21,"endTime":1630.05,"body":"ensuring that the project never"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1626.21,"endTime":1630.05,"body":"actually is successful. Because"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1630.05,"endTime":1632.99,"body":"that person has a stake in the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1630.05,"endTime":1632.99,"body":"project not being successful or"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1632.99,"endTime":1636.35,"body":"has a stake in something else"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1632.99,"endTime":1636.35,"body":"happening, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1636.35,"endTime":1640.97,"body":"whatever that is. And if we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1636.35,"endTime":1640.97,"body":"don't have it kind of looked for"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1640.97,"endTime":1643.46,"body":"those places, and haven't tried"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1640.97,"endTime":1643.46,"body":"to think about, okay, who's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1643.46,"endTime":1646.55,"body":"going to be impacted by this"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1643.46,"endTime":1646.55,"body":"project? Are there organizations"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1646.55,"endTime":1649.73,"body":"that are going to be impacted"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1646.55,"endTime":1649.73,"body":"that aren't at the table? You"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1649.73,"endTime":1652.13,"body":"know, and who are the people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1649.73,"endTime":1652.13,"body":"that move those organizations so"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1652.13,"endTime":1654.56,"body":"that people have large"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1652.13,"endTime":1654.56,"body":"influences? Because if we don't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1654.56,"endTime":1657.35,"body":"do that work, to your point,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1654.56,"endTime":1657.35,"body":"when I intentional about it,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1657.65,"endTime":1660.5,"body":"oftentimes those things can be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1657.65,"endTime":1660.5,"body":"overlooked. We can have those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1660.5,"endTime":1663.83,"body":"situations occur. And we're"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1660.5,"endTime":1663.83,"body":"blindsided by them. You know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1663.89,"endTime":1667.31,"body":"and we never really know. I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1663.89,"endTime":1667.31,"body":"mean, I remember working on a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1667.31,"endTime":1672.92,"body":"project where we were working"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1667.31,"endTime":1672.92,"body":"with outsourcing partner, and we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1672.92,"endTime":1675.26,"body":"had requested something from"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1672.92,"endTime":1675.26,"body":"that outsourcing partner, and it"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1675.26,"endTime":1679.79,"body":"just, it was not happening. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1675.26,"endTime":1679.79,"body":"I had a, you know, there were"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1679.82,"endTime":1682.37,"body":"people I worked with on the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1679.82,"endTime":1682.37,"body":"projects, who were I was gotten"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1682.37,"endTime":1684.71,"body":"quite close to belt, build good"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1682.37,"endTime":1684.71,"body":"relationships with and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1684.71,"endTime":1687.83,"body":"eventually one of the people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1684.71,"endTime":1687.83,"body":"called me up and said, Look,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1688.34,"endTime":1691.91,"body":"this is totally off the record,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1688.34,"endTime":1691.91,"body":"you know, I'm not allowed to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1691.91,"endTime":1695.27,"body":"tell you this. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1691.91,"endTime":1695.27,"body":"we've been told by this person"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1695.27,"endTime":1697.4,"body":"in senior management, we were"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1695.27,"endTime":1697.4,"body":"told by this person, senior"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1697.4,"endTime":1699.44,"body":"management that under no"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1697.4,"endTime":1699.44,"body":"circumstances where we could"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1699.44,"endTime":1703.04,"body":"give this to you, you can ask as"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1699.44,"endTime":1703.04,"body":"much as many times as you want"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1703.04,"endTime":1707.6,"body":"it, this was never going to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1703.04,"endTime":1707.6,"body":"happen. And so, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1707.6,"endTime":1710.06,"body":"person, there was some"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1707.6,"endTime":1710.06,"body":"personality issues, there were"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1710.06,"endTime":1713.78,"body":"some things and that person was,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1710.06,"endTime":1713.78,"body":"was interested in this not being"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1713.78,"endTime":1719.03,"body":"a success. And that couldn't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1713.78,"endTime":1719.03,"body":"come out formally. Because there"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1719.03,"endTime":1723.11,"body":"was no mechanism for that to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1719.03,"endTime":1723.11,"body":"happen. You know, but if I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1723.11,"endTime":1725.6,"body":"wouldn't necessarily have known"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1723.11,"endTime":1725.6,"body":"that that's where this was"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1725.6,"endTime":1727.97,"body":"coming from. We just got to get"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1725.6,"endTime":1727.97,"body":"it kept getting these delays and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1727.97,"endTime":1730.31,"body":"kept wondering what was going"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1727.97,"endTime":1730.31,"body":"on. Because none of the excuses"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1730.31,"endTime":1735.02,"body":"really made sense, after a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1730.31,"endTime":1735.02,"body":"while, but it certainly can't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1735.02,"endTime":1735.41,"body":"happen."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1738.83,"endTime":1740.96,"body":"Nothing, I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1738.83,"endTime":1740.96,"body":"really good point. And it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1740.96,"endTime":1744.92,"body":"something that we need to keep"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1740.96,"endTime":1744.92,"body":"in mind is, and it takes courage"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1744.95,"endTime":1748.46,"body":"to ask the question. So is there"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1744.95,"endTime":1748.46,"body":"someone else behind the scenes"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1748.46,"endTime":1752.72,"body":"that I need to be aware of, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1748.46,"endTime":1752.72,"body":"know, is there a silent partner"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1752.72,"endTime":1756.77,"body":"here that is coming to the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1752.72,"endTime":1756.77,"body":"table? You know, I can remember"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1756.77,"endTime":1761.15,"body":"many years ago dealing with a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1756.77,"endTime":1761.15,"body":"large aeronautics company, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1761.87,"endTime":1765.53,"body":"it was very clear that one of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1761.87,"endTime":1765.53,"body":"the big shareholders was the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1765.53,"endTime":1770.69,"body":"president's wife, and he would"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1765.53,"endTime":1770.69,"body":"be sitting in a meeting and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1770.69,"endTime":1775.16,"body":"somebody would, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1770.69,"endTime":1775.16,"body":"present a $50 million project."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1775.46,"endTime":1780.95,"body":"And you know, he would say,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1775.46,"endTime":1780.95,"body":"Well, I'm, I have to think of it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1780.95,"endTime":1785.84,"body":"in terms of whether Helen is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1780.95,"endTime":1785.84,"body":"going to like $50 million less"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1785.84,"endTime":1790.43,"body":"than to push this year. You"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1785.84,"endTime":1790.43,"body":"know, and, and he would be very"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1790.43,"endTime":1793.85,"body":"open like that, and but we knew"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1790.43,"endTime":1793.85,"body":"Helen would never like Helen was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1793.88,"endTime":1798.29,"body":"invisible, but Helen was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1793.88,"endTime":1798.29,"body":"important. And she was a you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1798.29,"endTime":1801.26,"body":"know, a key shareholder. So I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1798.29,"endTime":1801.26,"body":"mean, I think that those are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1801.26,"endTime":1806.9,"body":"legitimate parts of any project"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1801.26,"endTime":1806.9,"body":"and any relationship is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1806.9,"endTime":1812.6,"body":"understanding either other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1806.9,"endTime":1812.6,"body":"people in play here that we need"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1812.6,"endTime":1815.21,"body":"to work with, that we need to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1812.6,"endTime":1815.21,"body":"develop a relationship with,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1815.33,"endTime":1818.48,"body":"even if that relationship ends"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1815.33,"endTime":1818.48,"body":"up being a bit of a vicarious"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1818.48,"endTime":1824.45,"body":"one, developed through a third"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1818.48,"endTime":1824.45,"body":"party, are we at least aware. So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1824.51,"endTime":1828.8,"body":"to wrap up, when we think of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1824.51,"endTime":1828.8,"body":"relationships within projects,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1829.07,"endTime":1834.74,"body":"a, it doesn't matter how"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1829.07,"endTime":1834.74,"body":"quickly, the cement cures, it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1834.74,"endTime":1839.09,"body":"doesn't matter how quality the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1834.74,"endTime":1839.09,"body":"steel is, at the end of the day,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1839.09,"endTime":1846.14,"body":"projects fail or succeed on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1839.09,"endTime":1846.14,"body":"people on relationships. And the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1846.14,"endTime":1850.94,"body":"more we can develop, grow, build"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1846.14,"endTime":1850.94,"body":"that trust, the greater the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1850.94,"endTime":1855.8,"body":"likelihood that the project will"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1850.94,"endTime":1855.8,"body":"work out. So relationships are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1855.8,"endTime":1858.2,"body":"critical to projects. They're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1855.8,"endTime":1858.2,"body":"critical in other parts of our"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1858.2,"endTime":1860.3,"body":"life, as well. But this is a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1858.2,"endTime":1860.3,"body":"podcast about project"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1860.3,"endTime":1867.68,"body":"leadership, so and so keep in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1860.3,"endTime":1867.68,"body":"mind, that how we develop grow,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1867.89,"endTime":1872.75,"body":"our vulnerable, create trust in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1867.89,"endTime":1872.75,"body":"those projects, will have a big"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1872.75,"endTime":1877.76,"body":"bearing on the success of us as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1872.75,"endTime":1877.76,"body":"leaders, and of the project that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1877.76,"endTime":1881.21,"body":"we're leading. Dale, I really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1877.76,"endTime":1881.21,"body":"appreciate your insights today"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1881.21,"endTime":1884.66,"body":"and joining us, I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1881.21,"endTime":1884.66,"body":"forward to more podcasts with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1884.87,"endTime":1888.2,"body":"you on them. We've taken a bit"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1884.87,"endTime":1888.2,"body":"of a departure from how I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1888.2,"endTime":1892.22,"body":"started out this podcast, which"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1888.2,"endTime":1892.22,"body":"was just me, and I'm finding it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1892.22,"endTime":1895.43,"body":"much more interactive and much"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1892.22,"endTime":1895.43,"body":"more exciting, quite frankly,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1895.43,"endTime":1897.8,"body":"having the dialogue. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1895.43,"endTime":1897.8,"body":"looking forward to moving that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1897.8,"endTime":1904.25,"body":"forward. You're very welcome."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1897.8,"endTime":1904.25,"body":"And again, I would encourage you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1904.25,"endTime":1907.1,"body":"as listeners have a look at the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1904.25,"endTime":1907.1,"body":"show notes. There's a table in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1907.1,"endTime":1909.92,"body":"there that gives you an idea of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1907.1,"endTime":1909.92,"body":"how I calibrate if you wish"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1910.1,"endTime":1913.31,"body":"relationships. There's a little"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1910.1,"endTime":1913.31,"body":"bit more information on the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1914.06,"endTime":1917.96,"body":"relationship of course trustless"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1914.06,"endTime":1917.96,"body":"value plus dialogue formula, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1917.99,"endTime":1920.6,"body":"a few other tidbits in there"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1917.99,"endTime":1920.6,"body":"that I think you would find"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1920.6,"endTime":1925.49,"body":"helpful. So thanks for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1920.6,"endTime":1925.49,"body":"listening, be safe out there and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1925.49,"endTime":1930.74,"body":"develop those relationships in a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1925.49,"endTime":1930.74,"body":"emotionally responsible and safe"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1930.8,"endTime":1932.99,"body":"environment. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1930.8,"endTime":1932.99,"body":"listening"}]}