{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1.77,"endTime":5.4,"body":"Welcome to messy but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1.77,"endTime":5.4,"body":"essential. I'm your host Rod"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":5.4,"endTime":9.45,"body":"Stilwell. And then this is the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":5.4,"endTime":9.45,"body":"podcast about the people side of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":9.45,"endTime":12.63,"body":"project leadership. It's where"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":9.45,"endTime":12.63,"body":"we help you improve your soft"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":12.63,"endTime":15.87,"body":"skills to reduce hard costs. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":12.63,"endTime":15.87,"body":"when we talk about the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":15.87,"endTime":20.76,"body":"challenges of leading people to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":15.87,"endTime":20.76,"body":"deliver successful projects. In"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":20.76,"endTime":23.28,"body":"today's episode, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":20.76,"endTime":23.28,"body":"be talking about getting team"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":23.28,"endTime":28.53,"body":"members on board with decisions"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":23.28,"endTime":28.53,"body":"are committed, and knowing who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":28.56,"endTime":31.26,"body":"isn't in agreement with you, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":28.56,"endTime":31.26,"body":"the rest of the team."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":32.08,"endTime":35.59,"body":"Joining me in studio today is my"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":32.08,"endTime":35.59,"body":"brother Dale, who's my business"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":35.59,"endTime":38.17,"body":"partner and comes with extensive"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":35.59,"endTime":38.17,"body":"project experience around the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":38.17,"endTime":43.96,"body":"world. And Ela is our producer"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":38.17,"endTime":43.96,"body":"and sound engineer. Before we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":43.96,"endTime":48.25,"body":"jump into this, we typically in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":43.96,"endTime":48.25,"body":"these podcasts, start talking"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":48.25,"endTime":52.3,"body":"about some level of safety and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":48.25,"endTime":52.3,"body":"depending upon where you are in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":52.3,"endTime":55.54,"body":"the world. And depending upon"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":52.3,"endTime":55.54,"body":"where you might be in the midst"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":55.54,"endTime":58.69,"body":"of this pandemic. I just like to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":55.54,"endTime":58.69,"body":"remind each and every one of us"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":58.69,"endTime":64.66,"body":"that safety isn't something that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":58.69,"endTime":64.66,"body":"we can ever take for granted. In"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":64.72,"endTime":68.26,"body":"the case of COVID-19, and so on,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":64.72,"endTime":68.26,"body":"we're obviously talking about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":68.32,"endTime":72.01,"body":"health safety, and being in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":68.32,"endTime":72.01,"body":"proximity to people and social"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":72.01,"endTime":74.65,"body":"distancing, and all those good"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":72.01,"endTime":74.65,"body":"things. But I just want to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":74.65,"endTime":80.17,"body":"remind us, every one of us that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":74.65,"endTime":80.17,"body":"safety is not a any an optional"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":80.8,"endTime":84.46,"body":"part of a project, it's a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":80.8,"endTime":84.46,"body":"critical key element in every"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":84.46,"endTime":87.85,"body":"single project, whether that's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":84.46,"endTime":87.85,"body":"physical safety, making sure"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":87.85,"endTime":92.86,"body":"that we are not on, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":87.85,"endTime":92.86,"body":"not in a compromised situation,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":92.86,"endTime":96.31,"body":"or where we're, you know, in a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":92.86,"endTime":96.31,"body":"position where we can actually"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":96.43,"endTime":99.58,"body":"control the environment so that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":96.43,"endTime":99.58,"body":"we're safe, or whether that's in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":99.58,"endTime":103.84,"body":"the emotional side. To be fair,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":99.58,"endTime":103.84,"body":"most of the time in these"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":103.84,"endTime":107.38,"body":"podcasts, we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":103.84,"endTime":107.38,"body":"relationships with people, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":107.38,"endTime":110.68,"body":"that creates that emotional"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":107.38,"endTime":110.68,"body":"safety. So just to remind you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":110.68,"endTime":113.83,"body":"out there that safety isn't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":110.68,"endTime":113.83,"body":"something that's optional, it is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":113.83,"endTime":116.71,"body":"truly something that we have to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":113.83,"endTime":116.71,"body":"focus on. And then we have to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":116.71,"endTime":117.85,"body":"intentional about."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":119.43,"endTime":124.23,"body":"Having said that, not everybody"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":119.43,"endTime":124.23,"body":"agrees with us all the time. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":124.23,"endTime":129.27,"body":"that can create some level of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":124.23,"endTime":129.27,"body":"emotional insecurity if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":129.27,"endTime":133.62,"body":"wish, or potential feeling that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":129.27,"endTime":133.62,"body":"we're not safe when we disagree"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":133.62,"endTime":136.41,"body":"with someone. So in today's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":133.62,"endTime":136.41,"body":"podcast, we want to talk about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":136.41,"endTime":140.31,"body":"that whole issue of how do we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":136.41,"endTime":140.31,"body":"get commitment, even though we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":140.31,"endTime":144.27,"body":"may not be 100% on board with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":140.31,"endTime":144.27,"body":"what everyone is saying?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":147.21,"endTime":150.69,"body":"Dale, you and I have both been"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":147.21,"endTime":150.69,"body":"involved in a wide variety of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":150.69,"endTime":154.2,"body":"projects over the years. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":150.69,"endTime":154.2,"body":"certainly we've had our"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":154.2,"endTime":159.81,"body":"opportunity to, you know, to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":154.2,"endTime":159.81,"body":"in meetings where there wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":159.81,"endTime":164.82,"body":"clear consensus or certainly not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":159.81,"endTime":164.82,"body":"unanimity in the decisions we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":164.82,"endTime":168.6,"body":"were making. And when those"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":164.82,"endTime":168.6,"body":"happen when the tensions high,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":168.6,"endTime":171.21,"body":"because, you know, things are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":168.6,"endTime":171.21,"body":"really important to us, and we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":171.21,"endTime":174.0,"body":"want to make sure that we do"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":171.21,"endTime":174.0,"body":"them, right. What are some of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":174.0,"endTime":176.52,"body":"the things that come to mind"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":174.0,"endTime":176.52,"body":"about where people have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":176.7,"endTime":179.46,"body":"disagreed, but we've still"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":176.7,"endTime":179.46,"body":"managed to move forward"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":179.46,"endTime":180.33,"body":"positively."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":180.0,"endTime":187.56,"body":"Wwll, I mean, I think, in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":180.0,"endTime":187.56,"body":"my experience, you know, I,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":187.62,"endTime":190.26,"body":"especially on technical"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":187.62,"endTime":190.26,"body":"projects, I don't know that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":190.26,"endTime":196.08,"body":"you're ever going to get 100%"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":190.26,"endTime":196.08,"body":"agreement on everything, I can't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":196.08,"endTime":201.45,"body":"imagine a situation where you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":196.08,"endTime":201.45,"body":"have enough resources in a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":201.45,"endTime":204.57,"body":"project to kind of read"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":201.45,"endTime":204.57,"body":"everybody's wish list. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":204.57,"endTime":208.29,"body":"everybody's when the list, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":204.57,"endTime":208.29,"body":"know, in terms of and oftentimes"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":208.29,"endTime":212.31,"body":"technical people are, are very"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":208.29,"endTime":212.31,"body":"particular in the way they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":212.31,"endTime":215.28,"body":"believe things should be done."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":212.31,"endTime":215.28,"body":"They have strong beliefs about"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":215.28,"endTime":219.87,"body":"the right way to do things. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":215.28,"endTime":219.87,"body":"so, you know, oftentimes, you're"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":219.87,"endTime":223.2,"body":"not going to be able to meet all"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":219.87,"endTime":223.2,"body":"of those expectations of your"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":223.2,"endTime":227.79,"body":"project team members in a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":223.2,"endTime":227.79,"body":"project. So I think it's common"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":227.94,"endTime":230.76,"body":"to have at least some level of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":227.94,"endTime":230.76,"body":"disagreement about specific"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":230.76,"endTime":234.93,"body":"details or specific"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":230.76,"endTime":234.93,"body":"deliverables. In a project, even"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":234.93,"endTime":238.02,"body":"if everybody agrees on the big"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":234.93,"endTime":238.02,"body":"picture, everybody's 100% on"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":238.02,"endTime":239.97,"body":"board with the big project, they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":238.02,"endTime":239.97,"body":"know where they want to go with"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":239.97,"endTime":242.16,"body":"it. And even if you've got that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":239.97,"endTime":242.16,"body":"level of agreement, I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":242.16,"endTime":245.07,"body":"you're still going to have a lot"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":242.16,"endTime":245.07,"body":"of disagreement on individual"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":245.07,"endTime":245.67,"body":"details."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":246.72,"endTime":251.16,"body":"And I think as a project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":246.72,"endTime":251.16,"body":"manager, it's important that,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":251.4,"endTime":257.1,"body":"you know, where those sources of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":251.4,"endTime":257.1,"body":"disagreement are in the first"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":257.1,"endTime":260.34,"body":"place, because I don't think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":257.1,"endTime":260.34,"body":"that's always all that Oh,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":260.34,"endTime":262.86,"body":"there's there's plenty of times"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":260.34,"endTime":262.86,"body":"where people on projects don't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":262.92,"endTime":266.46,"body":"say they disagree. But that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":262.92,"endTime":266.46,"body":"doesn't mean that they agree."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":268.32,"endTime":270.36,"body":"You know, we've talked, you and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":268.32,"endTime":270.36,"body":"I in the past, and I think, on"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":270.36,"endTime":272.61,"body":"some of these podcasts about how"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":270.36,"endTime":272.61,"body":"sometimes there's a cultural,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":272.91,"endTime":276.48,"body":"there's cultural differences,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":272.91,"endTime":276.48,"body":"where, you know, people in from"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":276.48,"endTime":279.63,"body":"one culture may assume that if"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":276.48,"endTime":279.63,"body":"you don't emphatically disagree"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":279.63,"endTime":283.47,"body":"with me, or you kind of make"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":279.63,"endTime":283.47,"body":"encouraging noises, that that's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":283.47,"endTime":287.85,"body":"agreement, and people in other"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":283.47,"endTime":287.85,"body":"cultures may not share that at"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":287.85,"endTime":290.61,"body":"all. There may be a politeness"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":287.85,"endTime":290.61,"body":"thing that we don't, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":290.61,"endTime":295.77,"body":"say something or, or whatever."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":290.61,"endTime":295.77,"body":"And so, you know, especially if"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":295.77,"endTime":297.93,"body":"there's there's cultural"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":295.77,"endTime":297.93,"body":"differences and geographic"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":297.93,"endTime":299.76,"body":"differences and time"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":297.93,"endTime":299.76,"body":"differences. I think those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":299.76,"endTime":303.48,"body":"things It all play havoc with"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":299.76,"endTime":303.48,"body":"some of those those projects."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":303.48,"endTime":305.79,"body":"And so I think as a project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":303.48,"endTime":305.79,"body":"manager, the first challenge is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":306.48,"endTime":311.22,"body":"make absolutely certain, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":306.48,"endTime":311.22,"body":"know, where everybody stands on"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":311.22,"endTime":312.12,"body":"these decisions."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":313.32,"endTime":315.78,"body":"I think that's a critical"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":313.32,"endTime":315.78,"body":"point. And I really like that,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":315.78,"endTime":321.63,"body":"because certainly I have been"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":315.78,"endTime":321.63,"body":"guilty of times, assuming people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":321.63,"endTime":326.31,"body":"were on board, when really, it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":321.63,"endTime":326.31,"body":"wasn't that they were not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":326.31,"endTime":330.12,"body":"totally on board, but they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":326.31,"endTime":330.12,"body":"weren't really committed to the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":330.12,"endTime":335.67,"body":"solution. And I just assumed the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":330.12,"endTime":335.67,"body":"silence meant acquiescence. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":335.67,"endTime":339.42,"body":"they must be, you know, these"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":335.67,"endTime":339.42,"body":"are intelligent, capable adults,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":339.42,"endTime":343.14,"body":"if they disagree, they'll speak"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":339.42,"endTime":343.14,"body":"up. Not necessarily."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":343.78,"endTime":346.09,"body":"And I think part of the thing"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":343.78,"endTime":346.09,"body":"that I've discovered over the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":346.09,"endTime":351.28,"body":"years is that when you as a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":346.09,"endTime":351.28,"body":"leader, pause for a moment, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":351.28,"endTime":354.58,"body":"literally go around the room,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":351.28,"endTime":354.58,"body":"whether that's a virtual room,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":354.58,"endTime":358.57,"body":"which is where we spend a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":354.58,"endTime":358.57,"body":"time these days, or a physically"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":358.57,"endTime":362.44,"body":"together room, when you go"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":358.57,"endTime":362.44,"body":"around the room, and person by"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":362.44,"endTime":365.8,"body":"person, attendee by attendee,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":362.44,"endTime":365.8,"body":"you basically put them on the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":365.8,"endTime":370.15,"body":"spot and say, Bob, where are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":365.8,"endTime":370.15,"body":"your Sue? Where are you? You"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":370.15,"endTime":375.1,"body":"know, Shahir, where are you? It"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":370.15,"endTime":375.1,"body":"doesn't really matter what the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":375.1,"endTime":378.85,"body":"question is, when you take the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":375.1,"endTime":378.85,"body":"time to go around the room and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":378.85,"endTime":382.63,"body":"get everybody's input. It's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":378.85,"endTime":382.63,"body":"often in those instances where"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":382.63,"endTime":387.61,"body":"you discover that the consensus"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":382.63,"endTime":387.61,"body":"you thought was there through"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":387.61,"endTime":391.75,"body":"silence is, in fact, not a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":387.61,"endTime":391.75,"body":"consensus at all. And you may"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":391.81,"endTime":393.97,"body":"actually end up with some"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":391.81,"endTime":393.97,"body":"significantly better"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":393.97,"endTime":398.32,"body":"suggestions, because you've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":393.97,"endTime":398.32,"body":"allowed people to have a voice."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":399.01,"endTime":401.23,"body":"I think the other thing that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":399.01,"endTime":401.23,"body":"I've discovered over the years,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":401.26,"endTime":404.74,"body":"and and I'd certainly be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":401.26,"endTime":404.74,"body":"interested in your experience in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":404.74,"endTime":410.17,"body":"it is the order in which you as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":404.74,"endTime":410.17,"body":"the leader, express your views"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":410.17,"endTime":413.41,"body":"on something. So there are two"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":410.17,"endTime":413.41,"body":"schools of thought on that. One"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":413.41,"endTime":416.62,"body":"is, hey, you're the leader weigh"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":413.41,"endTime":416.62,"body":"in, get your views on the table,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":416.89,"endTime":420.31,"body":"and the other, which tends to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":416.89,"endTime":420.31,"body":"the one I favor, which is, as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":420.31,"endTime":424.27,"body":"the leader, I want to go last, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":420.31,"endTime":424.27,"body":"want to allow everyone else to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":424.27,"endTime":430.57,"body":"weigh in on where things are, so"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":424.27,"endTime":430.57,"body":"that my leadership doesn't put"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":430.57,"endTime":435.73,"body":"people at a disadvantage, if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":430.57,"endTime":435.73,"body":"wish, or have them basically say"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":436.3,"endTime":439.57,"body":"They agree with me, as opposed"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":436.3,"endTime":439.57,"body":"to expressing their own views."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":439.75,"endTime":443.29,"body":"And, you know, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":439.75,"endTime":443.29,"body":"cultural, but they're also one"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":443.29,"endTime":447.13,"body":"of the reasons a big corporate"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":443.29,"endTime":447.13,"body":"culture may dictate that the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":447.13,"endTime":452.05,"body":"leader once he has or she has"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":447.13,"endTime":452.05,"body":"spoken, the rest of us just fall"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":452.05,"endTime":455.89,"body":"in line. But that doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":452.05,"endTime":455.89,"body":"we really committed, we just"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":456.19,"endTime":459.25,"body":"fell in line, what's your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":456.19,"endTime":459.25,"body":"experience been in terms of that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":459.25,"endTime":459.88,"body":"sequence?"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":459.9,"endTime":462.48,"body":"No, I think that that's,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":459.9,"endTime":462.48,"body":"that's very, very valid. And I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":462.48,"endTime":466.26,"body":"think it probably depends a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":462.48,"endTime":466.26,"body":"little bit on your relationship,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":466.29,"endTime":469.68,"body":"right to the people on the team."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":466.29,"endTime":469.68,"body":"So you know, if you were if"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":469.68,"endTime":473.37,"body":"you're just the project leader,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":469.68,"endTime":473.37,"body":"but you don't have a specific"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":473.37,"endTime":475.98,"body":"expertise outside of that, and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":473.37,"endTime":475.98,"body":"you don't have a functional"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":475.98,"endTime":478.47,"body":"relationship with the people on"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":475.98,"endTime":478.47,"body":"the project, then it may not"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":478.47,"endTime":480.69,"body":"matter when you express your"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":478.47,"endTime":480.69,"body":"opinion, the same way, you may"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":480.69,"endTime":487.35,"body":"not have that, that, that you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":480.69,"endTime":487.35,"body":"know that that reverence or"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":487.35,"endTime":489.39,"body":"whatever that people give to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":487.35,"endTime":489.39,"body":"your opinion, right."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":490.41,"endTime":493.08,"body":"But if you do have those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":490.41,"endTime":493.08,"body":"situations, then I think we do"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":493.08,"endTime":496.68,"body":"absolutely have to be very, very"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":493.08,"endTime":496.68,"body":"careful about that, and allow"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":496.92,"endTime":501.45,"body":"the team to do that. And I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":496.92,"endTime":501.45,"body":"it's, it's even true, not just"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":501.45,"endTime":504.3,"body":"with yourself, but with the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":501.45,"endTime":504.3,"body":"other people on the team. So if"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":504.3,"endTime":508.11,"body":"there is one person on our team,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":504.3,"endTime":508.11,"body":"who you happen to know, has that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":508.11,"endTime":511.89,"body":"louder voice and other people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":508.11,"endTime":511.89,"body":"have a tendency to give into,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":513.09,"endTime":516.72,"body":"but you're not 100% sure that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":513.09,"endTime":516.72,"body":"you know, they have the best"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":516.72,"endTime":520.89,"body":"solution for that, then, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":516.72,"endTime":520.89,"body":"know, they don't always use that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":520.89,"endTime":523.86,"body":"voice just to express the places"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":520.89,"endTime":523.86,"body":"where they are truly the expert."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":524.22,"endTime":527.82,"body":"Sometimes they override another"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":524.22,"endTime":527.82,"body":"expert in the in the project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":527.82,"endTime":531.39,"body":"team, because of their force of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":527.82,"endTime":531.39,"body":"personality or whatever. But I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":531.39,"endTime":533.73,"body":"think part of the product, being"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":531.39,"endTime":533.73,"body":"a leader, part of it is not just"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":533.73,"endTime":535.92,"body":"managing it for yourself, but"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":533.73,"endTime":535.92,"body":"also managing your for the other"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":535.92,"endTime":540.66,"body":"people on the team. You know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":535.92,"endTime":540.66,"body":"and maybe directly calling out"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":540.69,"endTime":545.79,"body":"the person asking for the input"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":540.69,"endTime":545.79,"body":"of someone who is the expert, or"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":545.79,"endTime":548.37,"body":"you believe how's that that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":545.79,"endTime":548.37,"body":"information that you're not"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":548.37,"endTime":554.52,"body":"hearing. And maybe calling that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":548.37,"endTime":554.52,"body":"out early in a conversation, get"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":554.52,"endTime":557.34,"body":"that out on the table right away"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":554.52,"endTime":557.34,"body":"before it gets drowned out by"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":557.34,"endTime":558.12,"body":"somebody else."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":558.48,"endTime":561.15,"body":"So I think a lot of those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":558.48,"endTime":561.15,"body":"nuances of the individuals and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":561.15,"endTime":563.46,"body":"their relationships and their"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":561.15,"endTime":563.46,"body":"personalities, and that's part"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":563.46,"endTime":568.11,"body":"of what a project leader kind of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":563.46,"endTime":568.11,"body":"has to help manage to get those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":568.11,"endTime":570.09,"body":"best, you know, to get that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":568.11,"endTime":570.09,"body":"information out to really"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":570.09,"endTime":574.23,"body":"understand who's agreeing who's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":570.09,"endTime":574.23,"body":"disagreeing. And I think, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":574.23,"endTime":576.45,"body":"know, you also probably"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":574.23,"endTime":576.45,"body":"shouldn't be afraid as a project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":576.45,"endTime":580.35,"body":"leader to maybe you can manage,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":576.45,"endTime":580.35,"body":"get it out into group in a team"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":580.35,"endTime":583.14,"body":"setting. But don't be afraid to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":580.35,"endTime":583.14,"body":"go to the people individually"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":583.14,"endTime":586.71,"body":"and say, You know what, I left"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":583.14,"endTime":586.71,"body":"that meeting, not 100% Sure. You"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":586.86,"endTime":590.31,"body":"didn't have something you wanted"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":586.86,"endTime":590.31,"body":"to say that you didn't say? Can"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":590.31,"endTime":591.09,"body":"we talk about that?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":592.95,"endTime":597.0,"body":"Yeah, I like that. I think"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":592.95,"endTime":597.0,"body":"it's really a challenge in many"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":597.0,"endTime":602.1,"body":"cases. For some people. To"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":597.0,"endTime":602.1,"body":"speak, I know that I've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":602.1,"endTime":604.83,"body":"certainly been in a number of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":602.1,"endTime":604.83,"body":"meetings where, depending on the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":604.83,"endTime":609.69,"body":"hierarchy in the room, you may"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":604.83,"endTime":609.69,"body":"discover that someone who has"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":609.69,"endTime":613.23,"body":"their boss in the room doesn't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":609.69,"endTime":613.23,"body":"speak up very much. But it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":613.23,"endTime":615.51,"body":"doesn't mean that they don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":613.23,"endTime":615.51,"body":"have good opinions, but you do"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":615.51,"endTime":617.94,"body":"need their commitment. And I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":615.51,"endTime":617.94,"body":"think what we're really looking"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":617.94,"endTime":622.47,"body":"at in today's episode is getting"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":617.94,"endTime":622.47,"body":"to the commitment. It's the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":622.47,"endTime":624.78,"body":"agreement, the disagreement, all"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":622.47,"endTime":624.78,"body":"of that stuff is really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":624.78,"endTime":628.68,"body":"important. But ultimately, what"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":624.78,"endTime":628.68,"body":"we're looking at is, are you Is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":628.71,"endTime":632.31,"body":"everyone in this meeting,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":628.71,"endTime":632.31,"body":"committed to the course of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":632.31,"endTime":636.72,"body":"action, even though you may not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":632.31,"endTime":636.72,"body":"agree with that course of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":636.72,"endTime":640.74,"body":"action, but you recognize that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":636.72,"endTime":640.74,"body":"for the better of the project,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":640.95,"endTime":646.23,"body":"and the the cohesion of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":640.95,"endTime":646.23,"body":"team, that you're going to, this"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":646.23,"endTime":648.81,"body":"isn't the hill to die on? This"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":646.23,"endTime":648.81,"body":"isn't the battle, you're going"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":648.81,"endTime":652.5,"body":"to fight this one, you're going"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":648.81,"endTime":652.5,"body":"to let go? You You know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":652.5,"endTime":656.64,"body":"like the expression, let's agree"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":652.5,"endTime":656.64,"body":"to disagree. Quite frankly,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":656.7,"endTime":659.91,"body":"there's no agreement there. It"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":656.7,"endTime":659.91,"body":"rather I would say if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":659.91,"endTime":664.35,"body":"disagree, but are still able to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":659.91,"endTime":664.35,"body":"commit to that course of action."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":664.66,"endTime":668.26,"body":"So often, we asked whether or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":664.66,"endTime":668.26,"body":"not you agree, but we don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":668.26,"endTime":671.92,"body":"necessarily ask whether you're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":668.26,"endTime":671.92,"body":"committed. And that's the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":671.92,"endTime":674.53,"body":"distinction I want to make"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":671.92,"endTime":674.53,"body":"today. Because it's easy to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":674.53,"endTime":678.25,"body":"agree or disagree with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":674.53,"endTime":678.25,"body":"something. But that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":678.85,"endTime":682.9,"body":"translate into action."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":678.85,"endTime":682.9,"body":"Ultimately, what translates into"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":682.9,"endTime":686.65,"body":"action is being committed to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":682.9,"endTime":686.65,"body":"something. So when I go around"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":686.65,"endTime":690.01,"body":"the table, if you wish, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":686.65,"endTime":690.01,"body":"around the zoom, or teams or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":690.01,"endTime":694.15,"body":"Google screen or whatever, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":690.01,"endTime":694.15,"body":"ask for people's weight to weigh"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":694.15,"endTime":698.02,"body":"in, what I really want to do is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":694.15,"endTime":698.02,"body":"ask them in a way that gets them"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":698.02,"endTime":702.58,"body":"to commit to a course of action,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":698.02,"endTime":702.58,"body":"not just agree with a statement,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":702.64,"endTime":707.32,"body":"but truly get engaged in it. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":702.64,"endTime":707.32,"body":"that means therefore, if we run"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":707.32,"endTime":712.0,"body":"into difficulties people have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":707.32,"endTime":712.0,"body":"committed, it's easy to hold"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":712.0,"endTime":716.23,"body":"them accountable. if nobody's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":712.0,"endTime":716.23,"body":"committed, well, or if some"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":716.26,"endTime":719.35,"body":"members aren't committed, then"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":716.26,"endTime":719.35,"body":"you know, when push comes to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":719.35,"endTime":721.69,"body":"shove, or when you start running"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":719.35,"endTime":721.69,"body":"into difficulties, which"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":721.69,"endTime":726.28,"body":"invariably projects will do they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":721.69,"endTime":726.28,"body":"this easy for them to throw"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":726.28,"endTime":728.92,"body":"their hands up and say, Well, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":726.28,"endTime":728.92,"body":"was never in favor this anyway,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":728.92,"endTime":732.28,"body":"that no, no, no, no, no, no, no,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":728.92,"endTime":732.28,"body":"wait a minute, you're part of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":732.28,"endTime":737.35,"body":"the team. So it's important to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":732.28,"endTime":737.35,"body":"be able to express why we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":737.35,"endTime":738.01,"body":"disagree."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":738.7,"endTime":742.12,"body":"And I've certainly seen as I'm"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":738.7,"endTime":742.12,"body":"sure you have situations where"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":742.33,"endTime":746.5,"body":"only one voice disagreed, but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":742.33,"endTime":746.5,"body":"she was articulate enough that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":746.5,"endTime":749.14,"body":"the rest of us saw that her"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":746.5,"endTime":749.14,"body":"argument actually made more"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":749.14,"endTime":753.13,"body":"sense than ours. And I've seen"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":749.14,"endTime":753.13,"body":"eight or nine people, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":753.19,"endTime":757.81,"body":"doing a boat face, just because"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":753.19,"endTime":757.81,"body":"that one individual actually"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":757.81,"endTime":761.62,"body":"made a better argument than the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":757.81,"endTime":761.62,"body":"rest of us were making. So I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":761.62,"endTime":763.99,"body":"think that that's a very"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":761.62,"endTime":763.99,"body":"important component as well,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":763.99,"endTime":766.96,"body":"when we're, when we're looking"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":763.99,"endTime":766.96,"body":"at that commitment. Ultimately,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":766.96,"endTime":769.78,"body":"it is about getting to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":766.96,"endTime":769.78,"body":"commitment, the dialogue is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":769.78,"endTime":773.8,"body":"important. For sure. The other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":769.78,"endTime":773.8,"body":"thing that that I want to keep"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":773.8,"endTime":776.74,"body":"in, you know, all of us to keep"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":773.8,"endTime":776.74,"body":"in mind, and you've certainly"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":776.74,"endTime":780.7,"body":"had these experiences around,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":776.74,"endTime":780.7,"body":"you know, the different"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":780.7,"endTime":783.85,"body":"personalities, if you wish, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":780.7,"endTime":783.85,"body":"different thinking preference,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":783.91,"endTime":787.84,"body":"preferences, and so on, that we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":783.91,"endTime":787.84,"body":"bring to the table. So sometimes"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":788.2,"endTime":791.77,"body":"we're saying the same thing, but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":788.2,"endTime":791.77,"body":"because we're coming at it from"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":791.77,"endTime":796.06,"body":"a very different perspective, it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":791.77,"endTime":796.06,"body":"may appear that we're at odds"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":796.06,"endTime":800.44,"body":"with each other. How do you deal"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":796.06,"endTime":800.44,"body":"with that? How do you help"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":800.44,"endTime":806.05,"body":"people to see that? You? Guys"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":800.44,"endTime":806.05,"body":"gals, you're saying the same"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":806.05,"endTime":806.53,"body":"thing?"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":807.05,"endTime":812.93,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I think one"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":807.05,"endTime":812.93,"body":"of the challenges often with"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":812.93,"endTime":816.89,"body":"being the project leader in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":812.93,"endTime":816.89,"body":"these things is, is that being"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":816.89,"endTime":822.02,"body":"able to step back and observe"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":816.89,"endTime":822.02,"body":"the dialogue rather than"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":822.02,"endTime":828.08,"body":"participate in the dialogue? And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":822.02,"endTime":828.08,"body":"so act as that intermediary? You"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":828.08,"endTime":830.39,"body":"know, be able to stop the thing"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":828.08,"endTime":830.39,"body":"and say, well, hang on a second,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":830.42,"endTime":833.45,"body":"I hear you saying this, is that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":830.42,"endTime":833.45,"body":"right? And then the other"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":833.45,"endTime":836.72,"body":"person, I hear you saying this,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":833.45,"endTime":836.72,"body":"there's that right. You know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":836.78,"endTime":840.05,"body":"and what are the and here's,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":836.78,"endTime":840.05,"body":"here's where I think you're both"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":840.05,"endTime":842.84,"body":"saying the same thing. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":840.05,"endTime":842.84,"body":"here's why, you know, or, but"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":842.87,"endTime":845.96,"body":"but it's very difficult. If, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":842.87,"endTime":845.96,"body":"know, there's two people that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":845.96,"endTime":849.29,"body":"are expressing an opinion, and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":845.96,"endTime":849.29,"body":"they're not hearing each other,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":849.71,"endTime":852.44,"body":"if they're both intimately"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":849.71,"endTime":852.44,"body":"involved in the conversation"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":852.44,"endTime":856.34,"body":"well, and it's much harder for"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":852.44,"endTime":856.34,"body":"them to see that. So I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":856.37,"endTime":859.82,"body":"sometimes having that project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":856.37,"endTime":859.82,"body":"leader, take that dispassionate"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":860.36,"endTime":864.05,"body":"view, and be able to take"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":860.36,"endTime":864.05,"body":"themselves out of the decision"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":864.05,"endTime":867.38,"body":"and step back and say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":864.05,"endTime":867.38,"body":"my role here is not to make this"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":867.38,"endTime":871.76,"body":"decision. My goal here is to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":867.38,"endTime":871.76,"body":"lead this project. When people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":871.76,"endTime":875.57,"body":"have the expertise, we need to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":871.76,"endTime":875.57,"body":"get through this together. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":875.57,"endTime":878.81,"body":"so I'm going to kind of be that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":875.57,"endTime":878.81,"body":"that mediator, that person that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":878.81,"endTime":881.75,"body":"kind of thinks about thinking"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":878.81,"endTime":881.75,"body":"styles and thinks about"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":881.78,"endTime":884.54,"body":"different points of view that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":881.78,"endTime":884.54,"body":"thinks about where these things"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":884.54,"endTime":886.94,"body":"really aren't the same thing,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":884.54,"endTime":886.94,"body":"just being talked about"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":886.94,"endTime":888.98,"body":"differently, or whether it's a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":886.94,"endTime":888.98,"body":"nuance that we haven't, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":888.98,"endTime":890.81,"body":"know, that kind of thing. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":888.98,"endTime":890.81,"body":"then sometimes it was the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":890.81,"endTime":894.74,"body":"project we did, that's our job."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":890.81,"endTime":894.74,"body":"And it's sometimes hard to step"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":894.77,"endTime":899.57,"body":"10 step away from the technical"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":894.77,"endTime":899.57,"body":"aspects of the project and say,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":899.57,"endTime":901.82,"body":"No no no My job right now is to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":899.57,"endTime":901.82,"body":"manage the people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":903.34,"endTime":907.78,"body":"I like that. And I think as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":903.34,"endTime":907.78,"body":"leaders, we often think that we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":907.78,"endTime":912.91,"body":"have to be the brightest person"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":907.78,"endTime":912.91,"body":"in the room. And you know, our"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":912.91,"endTime":915.64,"body":"egos Fair enough, that's, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":912.91,"endTime":915.64,"body":"know, part of how we're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":915.64,"endTime":920.05,"body":"designed. But that ability to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":915.64,"endTime":920.05,"body":"step back and as you say, play"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":920.05,"endTime":923.32,"body":"that observer role. And then the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":920.05,"endTime":923.32,"body":"value you're bringing to the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":923.32,"endTime":928.75,"body":"conversation is actually helping"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":923.32,"endTime":928.75,"body":"the members get the absolute"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":928.75,"endTime":932.5,"body":"best, the richest results out of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":928.75,"endTime":932.5,"body":"the dialogue."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":932.84,"endTime":937.31,"body":"The other thing that I, I think"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":932.84,"endTime":937.31,"body":"that we could do a lot more of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":937.52,"endTime":944.66,"body":"is committing the thoughts to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":937.52,"endTime":944.66,"body":"paper, whiteboard, OneNote, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":944.66,"endTime":950.3,"body":"know, mind, mind mapping,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":944.66,"endTime":950.3,"body":"technology, whatever that might"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":950.3,"endTime":953.81,"body":"be, where you're actually"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":950.3,"endTime":953.81,"body":"getting right out, so everybody"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":953.81,"endTime":957.14,"body":"can see it. What are the key"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":953.81,"endTime":957.14,"body":"points we're trying to focus on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":957.14,"endTime":960.11,"body":"here? I found that I don't know"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":957.14,"endTime":960.11,"body":"about yourself, but I've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":960.11,"endTime":962.57,"body":"certainly found that sometimes"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":960.11,"endTime":962.57,"body":"conversations can keep going in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":962.57,"endTime":965.42,"body":"circles. And you know, 10"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":962.57,"endTime":965.42,"body":"minutes later, you're still"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":965.42,"endTime":968.51,"body":"saying the same thing. And it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":965.42,"endTime":968.51,"body":"like, come on, can we get on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":968.51,"endTime":972.65,"body":"with this. But as soon as we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":968.51,"endTime":972.65,"body":"commit it, to some to it, like I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":972.65,"endTime":975.95,"body":"say, a whiteboard, a flip chart,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":972.65,"endTime":975.95,"body":"you know, and again, if you're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":975.95,"endTime":977.9,"body":"in the middle of COVID, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":975.95,"endTime":977.9,"body":"you're in the middle of a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":978.08,"endTime":980.9,"body":"virtual world, and so we've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":978.08,"endTime":980.9,"body":"given, you know, I would suspect"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":980.9,"endTime":983.27,"body":"that even when we're out of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":980.9,"endTime":983.27,"body":"COVID, we're still going to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":983.27,"endTime":987.8,"body":"doing a lot more virtually, than"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":983.27,"endTime":987.8,"body":"we did in, you know, in the past"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":987.8,"endTime":988.28,"body":"years."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":988.67,"endTime":992.36,"body":"What are the tools you're using"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":988.67,"endTime":992.36,"body":"to help get those salient points"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":992.51,"endTime":995.33,"body":"right up there, sometimes I've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":992.51,"endTime":995.33,"body":"used a table, for instance, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":995.33,"endTime":1000.67,"body":"say, okay, you know, we've got"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":995.33,"endTime":1000.67,"body":"two different major opinions"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1000.67,"endTime":1004.69,"body":"going on here. Let's put them"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1000.67,"endTime":1004.69,"body":"side by side. And then let's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1004.69,"endTime":1008.17,"body":"figure out which one is actually"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1004.69,"endTime":1008.17,"body":"serving us better, and so on."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1008.38,"endTime":1012.82,"body":"But by having it out there,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1008.38,"endTime":1012.82,"body":"visible for everyone, I've often"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1012.82,"endTime":1017.68,"body":"found that that takes away some"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1012.82,"endTime":1017.68,"body":"of the grandstanding, if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1017.68,"endTime":1021.7,"body":"wish, takes away some of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1017.68,"endTime":1021.7,"body":"emotion, it actually makes the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1021.7,"endTime":1024.76,"body":"decision easier, because you've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1021.7,"endTime":1024.76,"body":"got something tangible,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1024.76,"endTime":1029.95,"body":"touchable that you can, that you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1024.76,"endTime":1029.95,"body":"can work with. That I you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1029.95,"endTime":1033.91,"body":"I would certainly encourage our"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1029.95,"endTime":1033.91,"body":"project leaders on the podcast"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1033.91,"endTime":1038.23,"body":"and you know, those who you're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1033.91,"endTime":1038.23,"body":"talking with, to use the tools"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1038.44,"endTime":1041.65,"body":"that we have available, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1038.44,"endTime":1041.65,"body":"know, whiteboarding, it's a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1041.65,"endTime":1045.73,"body":"great idea in terms of getting"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1041.65,"endTime":1045.73,"body":"stuff out. But it also allows"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1045.73,"endTime":1049.03,"body":"people to collect their"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1045.73,"endTime":1049.03,"body":"thoughts, as you're writing or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1049.03,"endTime":1051.04,"body":"as you know, have a scribe"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1049.03,"endTime":1051.04,"body":"lighting sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1051.33,"endTime":1054.84,"body":"The other thing, if I would be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1051.33,"endTime":1054.84,"body":"so bold would be to as the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1054.84,"endTime":1058.74,"body":"leader, find someone else who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1054.84,"endTime":1058.74,"body":"can do the scribing for you,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1058.83,"endTime":1063.57,"body":"within the group. And little"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1058.83,"endTime":1063.57,"body":"trick I've used actually is,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1063.72,"endTime":1067.08,"body":"I've often given that role to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1063.72,"endTime":1067.08,"body":"the most vocal person, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1067.08,"endTime":1069.39,"body":"sometimes you have in a group,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1067.08,"endTime":1069.39,"body":"that person who just no matter"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1069.39,"endTime":1073.41,"body":"what they need to get to two"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1069.39,"endTime":1073.41,"body":"cents worth in or whatever"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1073.59,"endTime":1080.1,"body":"currency you're using. And by"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1073.59,"endTime":1080.1,"body":"allowing them to have a role as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1080.1,"endTime":1084.0,"body":"scribe, you've actually met what"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1080.1,"endTime":1084.0,"body":"was part of their ego need,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1084.12,"endTime":1088.95,"body":"which was to feel important. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1084.12,"endTime":1088.95,"body":"it's, you know, you could say"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1088.95,"endTime":1092.34,"body":"it's a little manipulative, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1088.95,"endTime":1092.34,"body":"Yep, I'm guilty of that. But"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1092.34,"endTime":1098.49,"body":"ultimately, it allows them to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1092.34,"endTime":1098.49,"body":"capture thoughts, to make sure"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1098.49,"endTime":1102.93,"body":"that things are getting out"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1098.49,"endTime":1102.93,"body":"there. And, and keeps you free"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1103.11,"endTime":1106.74,"body":"to do that facilitating, if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1103.11,"endTime":1106.74,"body":"wish of that meeting, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1106.74,"endTime":1109.29,"body":"leading and making sure that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1106.74,"endTime":1109.29,"body":"people's opinions are expressed."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1109.56,"endTime":1112.65,"body":"Because despite the fact that we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1109.56,"endTime":1112.65,"body":"like to think that we can do"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1112.65,"endTime":1115.95,"body":"multiple things at the same"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1112.65,"endTime":1115.95,"body":"time, it's pretty hard to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1115.95,"endTime":1119.16,"body":"writing stuff down, putting it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1115.95,"endTime":1119.16,"body":"in some kind of a sequence or a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1119.16,"endTime":1122.01,"body":"format that everybody can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1119.16,"endTime":1122.01,"body":"follow, and still be leading the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1122.01,"endTime":1125.37,"body":"meeting. So I would encourage"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1122.01,"endTime":1125.37,"body":"that division of labor, if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1125.37,"endTime":1128.43,"body":"wish, in order to make sure"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1125.37,"endTime":1128.43,"body":"that, you know, the goal is get"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1128.43,"endTime":1133.08,"body":"all the ideas out, have a good"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1128.43,"endTime":1133.08,"body":"dialogue, and lead us to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1133.08,"endTime":1137.64,"body":"commitment so that we're moving"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1133.08,"endTime":1137.64,"body":"forward, not only on the same"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1137.64,"endTime":1141.48,"body":"page, but ultimately excited"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1137.64,"endTime":1141.48,"body":"about moving forward."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1142.14,"endTime":1142.59,"body":"I agree"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1143.85,"endTime":1147.57,"body":"Any closing thoughts?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1143.85,"endTime":1147.57,"body":"Before we we wrap this podcast"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1147.57,"endTime":1147.78,"body":"up?"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1147.83,"endTime":1151.22,"body":"Why, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1147.83,"endTime":1151.22,"body":"when you brought up the point of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1151.22,"endTime":1153.59,"body":"documenting things as you were"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1151.22,"endTime":1153.59,"body":"going I think that brings up the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1153.59,"endTime":1157.37,"body":"entire idea of communication."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1153.59,"endTime":1157.37,"body":"And and, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1157.37,"endTime":1160.28,"body":"communication is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1157.37,"endTime":1160.28,"body":"important on this as well. So,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1160.46,"endTime":1165.26,"body":"you know, when you believe"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1160.46,"endTime":1165.26,"body":"you've gotten to a commitment, I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1165.26,"endTime":1168.92,"body":"think it's very important to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1165.26,"endTime":1168.92,"body":"document that commitment. And to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1168.92,"endTime":1174.26,"body":"ensure that, you know, everybody"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1168.92,"endTime":1174.26,"body":"agrees that they committed, so"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1174.26,"endTime":1176.24,"body":"they may not agree with the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1174.26,"endTime":1176.24,"body":"concept. You've documented"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1176.24,"endTime":1178.55,"body":"whatever you were discussing"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1176.24,"endTime":1178.55,"body":"what the decisions were, but"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1178.55,"endTime":1182.09,"body":"document that commitment as"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1178.55,"endTime":1182.09,"body":"well, that we've talked this"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1182.09,"endTime":1185.87,"body":"through, we've agreed to move"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1182.09,"endTime":1185.87,"body":"on, you know, whatever the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1185.87,"endTime":1187.91,"body":"solution we're going to go"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1185.87,"endTime":1187.91,"body":"forward with, we are all"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1187.91,"endTime":1191.39,"body":"committed to that solution or"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1187.91,"endTime":1191.39,"body":"moving forward. And you know, if"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1191.39,"endTime":1194.78,"body":"you have somebody who's brought"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1191.39,"endTime":1194.78,"body":"up some objections, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1194.81,"endTime":1200.63,"body":"too, you can you can say to that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1194.81,"endTime":1200.63,"body":"person, you know, if you say See"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1200.84,"endTime":1202.85,"body":"your eyes heading in the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1200.84,"endTime":1202.85,"body":"direction you were worried"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1202.85,"endTime":1207.47,"body":"about? bring that back. You"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1202.85,"endTime":1207.47,"body":"know, at some point, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1207.47,"endTime":1210.05,"body":"mean that because we decided to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1207.47,"endTime":1210.05,"body":"go this direction that you had a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1210.05,"endTime":1212.87,"body":"different idea that your idea"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1210.05,"endTime":1212.87,"body":"had no merit. It's just that in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1212.87,"endTime":1215.81,"body":"this situation, this is what we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1212.87,"endTime":1215.81,"body":"chose as a team. And this is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1215.81,"endTime":1219.05,"body":"what we're committing to. But if"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1215.81,"endTime":1219.05,"body":"for whatever reason, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1219.08,"endTime":1221.99,"body":"you knew that you saw some"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1219.08,"endTime":1221.99,"body":"things, and that starts to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1221.99,"endTime":1225.32,"body":"happen, then don't hide it,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1221.99,"endTime":1225.32,"body":"don't not talk about it. Don't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1225.35,"endTime":1227.15,"body":"pretend that it's not there,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1225.35,"endTime":1227.15,"body":"just because you said you're"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1227.15,"endTime":1229.88,"body":"committed, feel free to bring it"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1227.15,"endTime":1229.88,"body":"back. And I think sometimes that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1229.88,"endTime":1233.72,"body":"can allow the person to let go"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1229.88,"endTime":1233.72,"body":"of that as well. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1233.72,"endTime":1236.57,"body":"more that document, the more"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1233.72,"endTime":1236.57,"body":"clear it is, the more everybody"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1236.57,"endTime":1240.11,"body":"understands what's going on. I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1236.57,"endTime":1240.11,"body":"think these your time you have"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1240.14,"endTime":1240.92,"body":"going forward."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1242.63,"endTime":1245.66,"body":"I think that's an excellent"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1242.63,"endTime":1245.66,"body":"idea. And I would even take it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1245.66,"endTime":1250.49,"body":"one step further, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1245.66,"endTime":1250.49,"body":"the value of that documentation,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1250.7,"endTime":1254.15,"body":"and quite frankly, it's with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1250.7,"endTime":1254.15,"body":"respect to what have we learned,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1254.36,"endTime":1257.81,"body":"one of the challenges that I've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1254.36,"endTime":1257.81,"body":"faced around the world with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1257.81,"endTime":1262.82,"body":"projects is that we frequently"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1257.81,"endTime":1262.82,"body":"discover that we're doing the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1262.82,"endTime":1266.06,"body":"same thing, we're making the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1262.82,"endTime":1266.06,"body":"same mistake we made on the last"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1266.06,"endTime":1270.11,"body":"project, because we didn't have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1266.06,"endTime":1270.11,"body":"those reflections to be able to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1270.11,"endTime":1273.38,"body":"go back to to say, Alright,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1270.11,"endTime":1273.38,"body":"let's, you know, before we jump"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1273.38,"endTime":1275.81,"body":"into this, let's What did we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1273.38,"endTime":1275.81,"body":"learn from the last thing we did"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1275.81,"endTime":1278.57,"body":"together? What are the things"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1275.81,"endTime":1278.57,"body":"we're going to avoid this time,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1278.69,"endTime":1281.03,"body":"that's what makes us a better"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1278.69,"endTime":1281.03,"body":"team. That's what makes us a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1281.03,"endTime":1284.48,"body":"better project. And I think"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1281.03,"endTime":1284.48,"body":"often we just jumped from one to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1284.48,"endTime":1289.46,"body":"the other. And or we do kind of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1284.48,"endTime":1289.46,"body":"a post mortem or evaluation or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1289.7,"endTime":1292.85,"body":"after action review, whatever"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1289.7,"endTime":1292.85,"body":"you might want to call it. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1292.85,"endTime":1295.1,"body":"then we put it in the folder,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1292.85,"endTime":1295.1,"body":"and we never look at it again."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1295.58,"endTime":1298.55,"body":"You know, so I think that whole"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1295.58,"endTime":1298.55,"body":"idea of documenting as we go"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1298.55,"endTime":1302.72,"body":"through getting the commitment"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1298.55,"endTime":1302.72,"body":"and truly making sure that that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1302.72,"endTime":1307.61,"body":"we know who's on board and who's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1302.72,"endTime":1307.61,"body":"struggling, etc. And having"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1307.79,"endTime":1310.91,"body":"committed things to some level"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1307.79,"endTime":1310.91,"body":"of writing, whatever, whether"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1310.91,"endTime":1313.22,"body":"it's electronic, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1310.91,"endTime":1313.22,"body":"physical, whatever it might be."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1314.33,"endTime":1317.12,"body":"I think those are all things"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1314.33,"endTime":1317.12,"body":"that can help us move forward."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1317.93,"endTime":1321.97,"body":"Dale, as we wrap this up, one"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1317.93,"endTime":1321.97,"body":"thing that I want to stress is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1322.037,"endTime":1326.212,"body":"that sometimes getting to that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1322.037,"endTime":1326.212,"body":"level of commitment can involve"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1326.279,"endTime":1330.656,"body":"a difficult conversation. And so"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1326.279,"endTime":1330.656,"body":"I would encourage our listeners,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1330.723,"endTime":1334.629,"body":"that if you find yourself in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1330.723,"endTime":1334.629,"body":"that situation, first of all,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1334.696,"endTime":1338.535,"body":"don't turn it into allow in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1334.696,"endTime":1338.535,"body":"front of everybody. Sometimes"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1338.602,"endTime":1342.373,"body":"you want to just be able to take"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1338.602,"endTime":1342.373,"body":"that offline, have that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1342.44,"endTime":1345.942,"body":"conversation, difficult"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1342.44,"endTime":1345.942,"body":"conversations, we've already"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1346.009,"endTime":1349.578,"body":"done a podcast on that. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1346.009,"endTime":1349.578,"body":"there are certainly other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1349.645,"endTime":1353.079,"body":"resources available to help you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1349.645,"endTime":1353.079,"body":"have that difficult"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1353.147,"endTime":1357.321,"body":"conversation. But ultimately, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1353.147,"endTime":1357.321,"body":"think it's critical that as we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1357.389,"endTime":1361.564,"body":"move forward as a team as you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1357.389,"endTime":1361.564,"body":"work together, you have you lean"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1361.631,"endTime":1365.873,"body":"in to those tough conversations,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1361.631,"endTime":1365.873,"body":"you share with each other what"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1365.941,"endTime":1369.981,"body":"your feelings are, etc. And I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1365.941,"endTime":1369.981,"body":"know sometimes it's like watch"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1370.048,"endTime":1373.886,"body":"sharing our feelings. But"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1370.048,"endTime":1373.886,"body":"ultimately, the goal here is to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1373.954,"endTime":1378.331,"body":"deliver successful projects with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1373.954,"endTime":1378.331,"body":"messy people. So as we wrap this"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1378.398,"endTime":1382.438,"body":"up today, I'd like to thank you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1378.398,"endTime":1382.438,"body":"for your ideas today. Thanks"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1382.505,"endTime":1386.613,"body":"Ella for a stick handling the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1382.505,"endTime":1386.613,"body":"techie stuff behind the scenes."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1386.68,"endTime":1390.922,"body":"And to the rest of you out there"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1386.68,"endTime":1390.922,"body":"listening. We continue to wish"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1390.99,"endTime":1394.559,"body":"you great success with your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1390.99,"endTime":1394.559,"body":"projects. Stay safe, stay"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1394.626,"endTime":1398.33,"body":"healthy, and we look forward to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1394.626,"endTime":1398.33,"body":"next episode. Thank you"}]}