{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":2.28,"endTime":6.45,"body":"Welcome to messy but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":2.28,"endTime":6.45,"body":"essential. I'm your host, Rod"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":6.45,"endTime":10.29,"body":"Stillwell. And this is the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":6.45,"endTime":10.29,"body":"podcast about the people side of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":10.29,"endTime":14.04,"body":"project leadership. It's where"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":10.29,"endTime":14.04,"body":"we help you improve your soft"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":14.04,"endTime":18.06,"body":"skills to reduce hard costs. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":14.04,"endTime":18.06,"body":"when we talk about the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":18.06,"endTime":22.86,"body":"challenges of leading people to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":18.06,"endTime":22.86,"body":"deliver successful projects. In"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":22.86,"endTime":25.41,"body":"today's episode, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":22.86,"endTime":25.41,"body":"be talking about a somewhat"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":25.44,"endTime":29.91,"body":"unofficial leadership role in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":25.44,"endTime":29.91,"body":"projects, being a linchpin, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":29.91,"endTime":34.35,"body":"being that essential building"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":29.91,"endTime":34.35,"body":"block for great projects."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":34.98,"endTime":38.07,"body":"Joining me in studio today is my"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":34.98,"endTime":38.07,"body":"brother Dale, who is my business"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":38.07,"endTime":40.71,"body":"partner and comes with extensive"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":38.07,"endTime":40.71,"body":"project experience around the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":40.71,"endTime":44.13,"body":"world. And Ela is our producer"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":40.71,"endTime":44.13,"body":"and sound engineer today."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":45.95,"endTime":48.53,"body":"As we've done in past episodes,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":45.95,"endTime":48.53,"body":"if you've listened to them,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":48.95,"endTime":51.2,"body":"we're going to kick off by"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":48.95,"endTime":51.2,"body":"talking a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":51.2,"endTime":55.25,"body":"safety. Now, even though Today"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":51.2,"endTime":55.25,"body":"we're going to be touching on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":55.25,"endTime":60.62,"body":"the topic of important in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":55.25,"endTime":60.62,"body":"essential ingredient, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":60.62,"endTime":64.37,"body":"safety can be compromised, if we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":60.62,"endTime":64.37,"body":"think we're the only ones who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":64.37,"endTime":69.74,"body":"can do a task. If for instance,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":64.37,"endTime":69.74,"body":"rather than asking for help, we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":69.74,"endTime":73.67,"body":"figure we can do it ourselves."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":69.74,"endTime":73.67,"body":"And we end up straining"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":73.67,"endTime":76.25,"body":"ourselves, we end up taking"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":73.67,"endTime":76.25,"body":"risks that we shouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":76.25,"endTime":79.97,"body":"taking, lifting things that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":76.25,"endTime":79.97,"body":"really would be better lifted"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":79.97,"endTime":83.6,"body":"with two people. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":79.97,"endTime":83.6,"body":"remember a number of years ago"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":83.6,"endTime":87.29,"body":"working with a client where"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":83.6,"endTime":87.29,"body":"safety was a very important part"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":87.29,"endTime":95.15,"body":"of their culture. And I was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":87.29,"endTime":95.15,"body":"bringing equipment and so on in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":95.24,"endTime":99.8,"body":"setting up for a conference. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":95.24,"endTime":99.8,"body":"I was carrying a fairly heavy"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":99.8,"endTime":104.78,"body":"box by myself up only two"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":99.8,"endTime":104.78,"body":"stairs, maybe three stairs, from"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":104.78,"endTime":108.41,"body":"kind of the lobby level up to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":104.78,"endTime":108.41,"body":"the convention level in this"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":108.41,"endTime":111.08,"body":"hotel. And it wasn't like going"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":108.41,"endTime":111.08,"body":"up a flight of stairs, it was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":111.08,"endTime":114.65,"body":"literally just, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":111.08,"endTime":114.65,"body":"raised portion, probably I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":114.65,"endTime":117.8,"body":"suspect underneath it was a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":114.65,"endTime":117.8,"body":"bunch of infrastructure and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":117.8,"endTime":120.59,"body":"wiring and stuff like this. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":117.8,"endTime":120.59,"body":"so they had a raised floor for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":120.59,"endTime":124.13,"body":"this whole, you know, convention"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":120.59,"endTime":124.13,"body":"hall. Anyway, make a long story"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":124.13,"endTime":128.57,"body":"short, I had, you know, is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":124.13,"endTime":128.57,"body":"holding the box with both hands,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":128.84,"endTime":133.88,"body":"and walking up the steps and had"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":128.84,"endTime":133.88,"body":"felt a tap on my shoulder and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":133.88,"endTime":136.85,"body":"turned around. And it was one of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":133.88,"endTime":136.85,"body":"these organizations, vice"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":136.85,"endTime":141.14,"body":"presidents who said \"Rod, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":136.85,"endTime":141.14,"body":"can't take that up those stairs"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":141.14,"endTime":146.54,"body":"by yourself, you don't have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":141.14,"endTime":146.54,"body":"three points of contact, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":146.54,"endTime":149.48,"body":"need to get someone to carry the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":146.54,"endTime":149.48,"body":"other end. So both of you can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":149.48,"endTime":152.96,"body":"either be holding the handrail"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":149.48,"endTime":152.96,"body":"or whatever.\" And at first, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":152.96,"endTime":156.26,"body":"will confess that I thought, oh,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":152.96,"endTime":156.26,"body":"give me a break, it's only three"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":156.26,"endTime":162.38,"body":"steps. And that's where the line"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":156.26,"endTime":162.38,"body":"gets drawn. So safety,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":162.38,"endTime":166.97,"body":"sometimes, we can think that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":162.38,"endTime":166.97,"body":"it's easier, more convenient,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":166.97,"endTime":171.65,"body":"quicker to do it by ourselves."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":166.97,"endTime":171.65,"body":"But in fact, being indispensable"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":171.65,"endTime":174.77,"body":"and doing it ourselves can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":171.65,"endTime":174.77,"body":"increase the risk."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":174.0,"endTime":181.26,"body":"So let's jump into this. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":174.0,"endTime":181.26,"body":"this is we talk about a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":181.26,"endTime":184.05,"body":"linchpin. And for those of you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":181.26,"endTime":184.05,"body":"who may not be familiar with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":184.05,"endTime":188.37,"body":"what a linchpin is, it's really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":184.05,"endTime":188.37,"body":"just a small device, or it can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":188.37,"endTime":192.63,"body":"be any size, I guess, that one"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":188.37,"endTime":192.63,"body":"of its functions, for instance,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":192.63,"endTime":198.18,"body":"is to be the pin that just holds"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":192.63,"endTime":198.18,"body":"a wheel on a wagon. And you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":198.18,"endTime":202.44,"body":"remove that pin and the wheel"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":198.18,"endTime":202.44,"body":"will fall off of the axle. It"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":202.5,"endTime":207.48,"body":"doesn't really you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":202.5,"endTime":207.48,"body":"not fancy, it's not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":207.48,"endTime":211.35,"body":"sophisticated. It's really very,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":207.48,"endTime":211.35,"body":"very simple. But without it,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":212.16,"endTime":214.2,"body":"you're not going anywhere"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":212.16,"endTime":214.2,"body":"because the wheel isn't staying"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":214.2,"endTime":219.42,"body":"on the axle linchpin in terms of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":214.2,"endTime":219.42,"body":"let's say, even large rail cars,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":219.99,"endTime":224.13,"body":"you know, those truck beds that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":219.99,"endTime":224.13,"body":"that the, you know, that the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":224.13,"endTime":229.65,"body":"whole car sits on are held on by"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":224.13,"endTime":229.65,"body":"one pin: a linchpin. So it's an"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":229.65,"endTime":234.96,"body":"essential component, but not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":229.65,"endTime":234.96,"body":"necessarily super sophisticated,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":234.96,"endTime":242.19,"body":"not necessarily super"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":234.96,"endTime":242.19,"body":"attractive, etc, but incredibly"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":242.19,"endTime":247.5,"body":"practical. And in that case,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":242.19,"endTime":247.5,"body":"somewhat indispensable. So I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":247.5,"endTime":250.02,"body":"want to touch on that, because"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":247.5,"endTime":250.02,"body":"I'm basing a lot of what we're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":250.02,"endTime":254.1,"body":"talking about today on a great"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":250.02,"endTime":254.1,"body":"book by Seth Godin, called"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":254.1,"endTime":257.37,"body":"linchpin. And interestingly, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":254.1,"endTime":257.37,"body":"subtitle is, are you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":257.37,"endTime":258.54,"body":"indispensable?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":258.93,"endTime":262.83,"body":"So before we jumped too far into"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":258.93,"endTime":262.83,"body":"this, putting it into the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":262.83,"endTime":267.18,"body":"project context, one of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":262.83,"endTime":267.18,"body":"things that came to mind Dale,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":267.18,"endTime":272.58,"body":"was that we're living in a world"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":267.18,"endTime":272.58,"body":"today as a result of the covid"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":272.58,"endTime":278.04,"body":"19 pandemic. That is drawing on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":272.58,"endTime":278.04,"body":"resources from across the globe."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":278.34,"endTime":285.42,"body":"Because people can connect"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":278.34,"endTime":285.42,"body":"instantly via a virtual platform"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":285.42,"endTime":289.95,"body":"be that zoom or teams or Google"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":285.42,"endTime":289.95,"body":"Hangouts or whatever it might"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":289.95,"endTime":297.87,"body":"be. And the their availability"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":289.95,"endTime":297.87,"body":"is instant. They don't have to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":297.87,"endTime":300.48,"body":"get on a plane. They don't have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":297.87,"endTime":300.48,"body":"to spend the day traveling. etc."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":300.87,"endTime":308.01,"body":"And so as a result, it's changed"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":300.87,"endTime":308.01,"body":"somewhat the landscape for who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":308.04,"endTime":311.37,"body":"is involved in a project or who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":308.04,"endTime":311.37,"body":"we can get involved in a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":311.37,"endTime":314.37,"body":"project. And I, you know, with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":311.37,"endTime":314.37,"body":"the last view and a bit that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":314.37,"endTime":319.14,"body":"we've been in this pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":314.37,"endTime":319.14,"body":"I've seen a great change in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":319.14,"endTime":324.06,"body":"people's perceptions of in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":319.14,"endTime":324.06,"body":"thinking of how to engage"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":324.06,"endTime":327.57,"body":"people, how to bring other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":324.06,"endTime":327.57,"body":"people onto projects, how to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":328.65,"endTime":332.94,"body":"really get the best talent for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":328.65,"endTime":332.94,"body":"what we need, because"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":332.94,"endTime":336.96,"body":"availability is less of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":332.94,"endTime":336.96,"body":"challenge than it was a year and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":336.96,"endTime":343.47,"body":"a bit ago. And so as a result,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":336.96,"endTime":343.47,"body":"our talent pool, if you wish, is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":343.47,"endTime":347.85,"body":"now the whole globe. Whereas in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":343.47,"endTime":347.85,"body":"many cases, before we were"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":347.85,"endTime":352.29,"body":"restricted to the geographical"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":347.85,"endTime":352.29,"body":"proximity to the execution of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":352.29,"endTime":356.67,"body":"the project, so that changes,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":352.29,"endTime":356.67,"body":"you know, who's important or not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":356.67,"endTime":361.11,"body":"necessarily important, but who's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":356.67,"endTime":361.11,"body":"essential, and who's making, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":361.11,"endTime":364.23,"body":"know, a great contribution and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":361.11,"endTime":364.23,"body":"so on, it's no longer just"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":364.23,"endTime":368.13,"body":"because you live here, that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":364.23,"endTime":368.13,"body":"you're guaranteed a spot. In"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":368.13,"endTime":371.91,"body":"fact, the world is now a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":368.13,"endTime":371.91,"body":"recruiting area."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":371.97,"endTime":375.99,"body":"So I want to talk in terms of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":371.97,"endTime":375.99,"body":"the linchpin as being the right"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":375.99,"endTime":380.13,"body":"person, for the right job. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":375.99,"endTime":380.13,"body":"the person who's going to help"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":380.28,"endTime":384.9,"body":"keep that wagon wheel on if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":380.28,"endTime":384.9,"body":"wish, not necessarily somebody"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":384.9,"endTime":390.06,"body":"who's local or has authority or,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":384.9,"endTime":390.06,"body":"or that type of thing. So let's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":390.06,"endTime":393.48,"body":"talk a little bit then about,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":390.06,"endTime":393.48,"body":"from your perspective, looking"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":393.48,"endTime":398.04,"body":"at projects and so on. What are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":393.48,"endTime":398.04,"body":"some of the experiences that you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":398.04,"endTime":401.67,"body":"might have had where someone was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":398.04,"endTime":401.67,"body":"really a critical glue, if your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":401.67,"endTime":405.3,"body":"wish for that project team, even"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":401.67,"endTime":405.3,"body":"though they weren't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":405.3,"endTime":405.93,"body":"the leader?"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":408.42,"endTime":410.58,"body":"Yeah, so I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":408.42,"endTime":410.58,"body":"interesting, one of the things"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":410.58,"endTime":412.89,"body":"that, you know, as you talked"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":410.58,"endTime":412.89,"body":"about the fact that we've"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":412.92,"endTime":415.95,"body":"broadened that, that pool of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":412.92,"endTime":415.95,"body":"where those resources might come"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":415.95,"endTime":419.22,"body":"from, one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":415.95,"endTime":419.22,"body":"that comes to mind for me is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":419.22,"endTime":423.54,"body":"that that's, that may be true in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":419.22,"endTime":423.54,"body":"the broader context of society."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":423.54,"endTime":427.59,"body":"But that's often been true for a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":423.54,"endTime":427.59,"body":"great many years in certain"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":427.59,"endTime":430.5,"body":"industries. Right? So there's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":427.59,"endTime":430.5,"body":"certain technical industries"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":430.5,"endTime":433.83,"body":"that have been doing that for a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":430.5,"endTime":433.83,"body":"very, very long time. You know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":433.83,"endTime":439.32,"body":"if you if you hired a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":433.83,"endTime":439.32,"body":"consultant, from, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":439.32,"endTime":443.61,"body":"large consulting firm in the IT"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":439.32,"endTime":443.61,"body":"industry 10 years ago, you might"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":443.61,"endTime":446.31,"body":"have got people from any one of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":443.61,"endTime":446.31,"body":"their offices, right, you didn't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":446.31,"endTime":448.77,"body":"necessarily know where that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":446.31,"endTime":448.77,"body":"person was coming from. They"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":448.77,"endTime":451.83,"body":"chose geographically where to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":448.77,"endTime":451.83,"body":"source from, and dependent upon"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":451.83,"endTime":454.74,"body":"all kinds of availability and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":451.83,"endTime":454.74,"body":"everything else. So we've"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":454.74,"endTime":458.25,"body":"always, or many industries have"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":454.74,"endTime":458.25,"body":"had that for many, many years,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":458.7,"endTime":462.6,"body":"engineering, etc. but but I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":458.7,"endTime":462.6,"body":"think it's broadened the concept"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":462.6,"endTime":464.76,"body":"to a larger number of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":462.6,"endTime":464.76,"body":"industries."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":466.29,"endTime":470.37,"body":"I think there's, there's an"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":466.29,"endTime":470.37,"body":"interesting, you know, what you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":470.37,"endTime":474.39,"body":"talked about, term you you just"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":470.37,"endTime":474.39,"body":"use when you when you asked me"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":474.39,"endTime":477.36,"body":"the question, which was this"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":474.39,"endTime":477.36,"body":"concept of glue. And I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":477.36,"endTime":481.32,"body":"that that's a very different"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":477.36,"endTime":481.32,"body":"idea of linchpin than what we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":481.32,"endTime":483.48,"body":"might come up with, when we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":481.32,"endTime":483.48,"body":"think about the word"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":483.48,"endTime":487.68,"body":"indispensable, just on its own,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":483.48,"endTime":487.68,"body":"right. So for example, we've"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":487.68,"endTime":491.4,"body":"always had on projects, people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":487.68,"endTime":491.4,"body":"who were indispensable because"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":491.4,"endTime":494.88,"body":"they were the subject matter"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":491.4,"endTime":494.88,"body":"expert, they had the technical"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":494.88,"endTime":498.12,"body":"expertise, they were the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":494.88,"endTime":498.12,"body":"geologists, they were the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":498.15,"endTime":502.53,"body":"metallurgy engineer, they were"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":498.15,"endTime":502.53,"body":"the network specialists,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":502.56,"endTime":506.7,"body":"depending upon the project that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":502.56,"endTime":506.7,"body":"you were working on. And so"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":506.7,"endTime":510.09,"body":"those people were essential to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":506.7,"endTime":510.09,"body":"the project. But I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":510.09,"endTime":514.08,"body":"necessarily call them glue. They"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":510.09,"endTime":514.08,"body":"weren't necessarily the people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":514.08,"endTime":519.54,"body":"who made the whole thing work."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":514.08,"endTime":519.54,"body":"You know, you couldn't have done"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":519.54,"endTime":523.5,"body":"it without them, because it"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":519.54,"endTime":523.5,"body":"required that special expertise."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":524.13,"endTime":529.59,"body":"But often those people were just"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":524.13,"endTime":529.59,"body":"focused on their expertise. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":529.59,"endTime":535.89,"body":"that's a different person than"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":529.59,"endTime":535.89,"body":"the person who is able to run"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":535.89,"endTime":543.42,"body":"around and make all the things"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":535.89,"endTime":543.42,"body":"work. Right, the problem solver,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":543.42,"endTime":547.98,"body":"the person who, in the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":543.42,"endTime":547.98,"body":"background, removes obstacles,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":549.48,"endTime":554.79,"body":"perceives problems early and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":549.48,"endTime":554.79,"body":"figures out how to make them"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":554.79,"endTime":560.94,"body":"disappear, you know, doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":554.79,"endTime":560.94,"body":"come to the table with an issue"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":560.94,"endTime":564.12,"body":"comes to the table with a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":560.94,"endTime":564.12,"body":"solution. There, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":564.12,"endTime":566.97,"body":"there's there's a different sort"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":564.12,"endTime":566.97,"body":"of attitude to that a different"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":566.97,"endTime":569.43,"body":"approach to that, which I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":566.97,"endTime":569.43,"body":"is different than subject"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":569.43,"endTime":573.99,"body":"matter, subject matter"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":569.43,"endTime":573.99,"body":"expertise. And I think to me,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":573.99,"endTime":576.45,"body":"that's kind of when you said"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":573.99,"endTime":576.45,"body":"that we're going to that's the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":576.45,"endTime":578.67,"body":"type of linchpin I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":576.45,"endTime":578.67,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":579.89,"endTime":582.11,"body":"Yeah, I like that,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":579.89,"endTime":582.11,"body":"actually. And I think it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":582.11,"endTime":587.33,"body":"important to recognize that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":582.11,"endTime":587.33,"body":"indispensable comes with a lot"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":587.33,"endTime":592.97,"body":"of connotations. And so as much"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":587.33,"endTime":592.97,"body":"as Seth Godin, in the show notes"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":592.97,"endTime":596.03,"body":"will give you more information"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":592.97,"endTime":596.03,"body":"on the book and so on. But as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":596.03,"endTime":599.24,"body":"much as Seth uses that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":596.03,"endTime":599.24,"body":"expression, are you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":599.24,"endTime":603.8,"body":"indispensable Well, I think it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":599.24,"endTime":603.8,"body":"needs to be unpacked a little"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":603.8,"endTime":607.94,"body":"bit as well. You know, I've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":603.8,"endTime":607.94,"body":"always said as a leadership and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":607.94,"endTime":611.84,"body":"management training person that,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":607.94,"endTime":611.84,"body":"you know, if you were"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":611.84,"endTime":615.2,"body":"indispensable in your role, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":611.84,"endTime":615.2,"body":"probably weren't very"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":615.2,"endTime":619.52,"body":"promotable, simply because if"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":615.2,"endTime":619.52,"body":"you were the only person who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":619.52,"endTime":623.48,"body":"could do that job, why would we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":619.52,"endTime":623.48,"body":"want to promote you into another"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":623.66,"endTime":628.73,"body":"job and leave a bigger hole than"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":623.66,"endTime":628.73,"body":"the one we're filling. So there"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":628.73,"endTime":633.62,"body":"was always that balance right?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":628.73,"endTime":633.62,"body":"Between I'm necessary, I'm, they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":633.62,"endTime":639.35,"body":"would definitely miss me if I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":633.62,"endTime":639.35,"body":"wasn't here. But I'm also able"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":639.35,"endTime":645.05,"body":"to move on, either because I've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":639.35,"endTime":645.05,"body":"created a succession plan behind"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":645.05,"endTime":649.7,"body":"me, I have a successor, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":645.05,"endTime":649.7,"body":"a blocker, or, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":649.7,"endTime":655.43,"body":"organization sees me in multiple"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":649.7,"endTime":655.43,"body":"possible roles and so on. So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":655.46,"endTime":659.12,"body":"when I talk about our linchpin,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":655.46,"endTime":659.12,"body":"it is really for me, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":659.12,"endTime":665.36,"body":"individual whose attitude"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":659.12,"endTime":665.36,"body":"behavior, communication skills,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":665.36,"endTime":672.32,"body":"competencies, etc, allow them"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":665.36,"endTime":672.32,"body":"to, to really be some of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":672.32,"endTime":677.93,"body":"glue that holds the project team"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":672.32,"endTime":677.93,"body":"together. And that in that way,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":677.93,"endTime":679.79,"body":"I'm looking at a linchpin within"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":677.93,"endTime":679.79,"body":"a project."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":680.03,"endTime":682.19,"body":"And you can have many linchpins"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":680.03,"endTime":682.19,"body":"and I want to point you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":682.19,"endTime":686.15,"body":"it's not like a project team"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":682.19,"endTime":686.15,"body":"gets one linchpin, you could all"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":686.15,"endTime":689.75,"body":"be linchpins, you know, maybe"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":686.15,"endTime":689.75,"body":"falling over each other to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":689.75,"endTime":694.04,"body":"helpful, but and then the other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":689.75,"endTime":694.04,"body":"side of that, and something that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":694.04,"endTime":697.04,"body":"I certainly have experienced"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":694.04,"endTime":697.04,"body":"personally early on in my"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":697.04,"endTime":701.51,"body":"career, being the helper, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":697.04,"endTime":701.51,"body":"glue, that whatever for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":701.51,"endTime":706.7,"body":"everyone, and being so involved"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":701.51,"endTime":706.7,"body":"in doing that, that I actually"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":706.7,"endTime":711.47,"body":"didn't get around to doing the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":706.7,"endTime":711.47,"body":"job I was paid for. So that's,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":711.65,"endTime":715.31,"body":"you know, those are the kind of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":711.65,"endTime":715.31,"body":"the two sides if you wish, of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":715.46,"endTime":720.53,"body":"that linchpin. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":715.46,"endTime":720.53,"body":"before the before we started"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":720.53,"endTime":723.29,"body":"recording, we were talking a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":720.53,"endTime":723.29,"body":"little bit about the morality,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":723.29,"endTime":726.44,"body":"if you wish, you know, of being"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":723.29,"endTime":726.44,"body":"indispensable or being a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":726.44,"endTime":729.11,"body":"linchpin and so on. And I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":726.44,"endTime":729.11,"body":"thought you made some valid"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":729.11,"endTime":730.79,"body":"points that you might want to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":729.11,"endTime":730.79,"body":"repeat here."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":732.04,"endTime":734.56,"body":"Yeah, I was just sort of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":732.04,"endTime":734.56,"body":"saying that I don't think the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":734.59,"endTime":738.52,"body":"concept of a linchpin has has a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":734.59,"endTime":738.52,"body":"morality of its own or an ethics"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":738.52,"endTime":741.46,"body":"of its own right, it's if you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":738.52,"endTime":741.46,"body":"can, we bring to a different"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":741.46,"endTime":746.62,"body":"things, and some people create"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":741.46,"endTime":746.62,"body":"make themselves indispensable in"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":746.62,"endTime":751.81,"body":"very toxic ways. You know, they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":746.62,"endTime":751.81,"body":"hoard knowledge, they, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":751.81,"endTime":755.29,"body":"they, they do things that give"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":751.81,"endTime":755.29,"body":"themselves the perception of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":755.29,"endTime":759.52,"body":"being the only expert that can"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":755.29,"endTime":759.52,"body":"do this. But that's not actually"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":759.52,"endTime":761.65,"body":"healthy for the organization."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":759.52,"endTime":761.65,"body":"And that's not the type of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":761.65,"endTime":763.51,"body":"linchpin we're talking about."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":761.65,"endTime":763.51,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":763.45,"endTime":765.43,"body":"The type of linchpin we're"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":763.45,"endTime":765.43,"body":"talking about when we use the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":765.43,"endTime":771.16,"body":"terms like glue, is that person"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":765.43,"endTime":771.16,"body":"who, you know, is constantly"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":771.16,"endTime":776.08,"body":"trying to make the overall work"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":771.16,"endTime":776.08,"body":"better, right? And they may not"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":776.08,"endTime":779.59,"body":"even really know that that's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":776.08,"endTime":779.59,"body":"what they do. They may not even"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":779.59,"endTime":782.23,"body":"think about it, may not be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":779.59,"endTime":782.23,"body":"conscious at all of those people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":782.23,"endTime":784.66,"body":"often enough, those people are"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":782.23,"endTime":784.66,"body":"just the type of people who"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":784.66,"endTime":788.17,"body":"that's what they like to do"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":784.66,"endTime":788.17,"body":"they, they get their value from"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":788.17,"endTime":792.55,"body":"watching the whole thing move"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":788.17,"endTime":792.55,"body":"forward. And so that's, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":792.55,"endTime":795.55,"body":"know, I think it is important to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":792.55,"endTime":795.55,"body":"draw those distinctions. I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":795.55,"endTime":801.1,"body":"even the indispensable concept,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":795.55,"endTime":801.1,"body":"if you're indispensable. That"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":801.1,"endTime":805.15,"body":"indispensability is, is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":801.1,"endTime":805.15,"body":"transient, if it's about"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":805.15,"endTime":808.0,"body":"expertise, if it's about a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":805.15,"endTime":808.0,"body":"specific set of knowledge, if"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":808.0,"endTime":809.98,"body":"it's about any of those things,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":808.0,"endTime":809.98,"body":"because eventually something"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":809.98,"endTime":813.34,"body":"comes along that replaces that."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":809.98,"endTime":813.34,"body":"Right. So it has a, it has a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":813.34,"endTime":814.39,"body":"defined time period."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":814.0,"endTime":816.97,"body":"I think that's a different"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":814.0,"endTime":816.97,"body":"indispensable than that person"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":816.97,"endTime":821.44,"body":"who, as you say, is always the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":816.97,"endTime":821.44,"body":"person that's trying to make"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":821.44,"endTime":824.83,"body":"things work trying to move the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":821.44,"endTime":824.83,"body":"overall forward, the person"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":824.83,"endTime":829.27,"body":"everybody wants on their"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":824.83,"endTime":829.27,"body":"project, because they're helpful"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":829.27,"endTime":833.5,"body":"and good to work with and things"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":829.27,"endTime":833.5,"body":"just seem to get done on their"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":833.5,"endTime":837.97,"body":"projects. That's a different"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":833.5,"endTime":837.97,"body":"type of indispensable, which I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":837.97,"endTime":842.05,"body":"think has a longer shelf life."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":837.97,"endTime":842.05,"body":"Right? It lasts for a longer"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":842.05,"endTime":845.08,"body":"period of time because it's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":842.05,"endTime":845.08,"body":"flexible. It's not based upon"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":845.08,"endTime":847.66,"body":"one little niche bit of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":845.08,"endTime":847.66,"body":"knowledge or one little niche"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":847.66,"endTime":851.83,"body":"bit of expertise. It's based"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":847.66,"endTime":851.83,"body":"upon this sort of ability to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":852.49,"endTime":855.85,"body":"move from a thing that thing is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":852.49,"endTime":855.85,"body":"still make things work."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":857.01,"endTime":861.0,"body":"Yeah, I think that's really"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":857.01,"endTime":861.0,"body":"important. Especially, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":861.0,"endTime":864.84,"body":"when we make the distinction,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":861.0,"endTime":864.84,"body":"for me a linchpin, as you've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":864.84,"endTime":869.01,"body":"described, it isn't really about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":864.84,"endTime":869.01,"body":"just being the subject matter"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":869.01,"endTime":874.56,"body":"expert. It's really a much"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":869.01,"endTime":874.56,"body":"broader role. And the challenge"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":874.56,"endTime":879.42,"body":"that I see, frankly, in the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":874.56,"endTime":879.42,"body":"linchpin mentality at times, is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":879.42,"endTime":882.57,"body":"that organizations often don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":879.42,"endTime":882.57,"body":"know what to do with those"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":882.57,"endTime":886.65,"body":"people. Because they're kind of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":882.57,"endTime":886.65,"body":"everywhere, and they they have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":886.65,"endTime":890.76,"body":"a, you know, good connections. I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":886.65,"endTime":890.76,"body":"mean, I think one of the key"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":890.94,"endTime":896.46,"body":"ingredients in that successful"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":890.94,"endTime":896.46,"body":"linchpin mindset if you wish"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":896.46,"endTime":901.02,"body":"mentality is being able to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":896.46,"endTime":901.02,"body":"connect connect with people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":901.02,"endTime":903.21,"body":"connect parts connect things"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":901.02,"endTime":903.21,"body":"together."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":904.23,"endTime":907.62,"body":"And we talked about the glue,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":904.23,"endTime":907.62,"body":"but it's really helping to hold"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":907.62,"endTime":909.63,"body":"those things together. And I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":907.62,"endTime":909.63,"body":"think one of the things that's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":909.63,"endTime":913.74,"body":"important when we, when we look"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":909.63,"endTime":913.74,"body":"at being a linchpin is that it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":913.74,"endTime":916.86,"body":"can be a learned behavior. I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":913.74,"endTime":916.86,"body":"mean, some people may appear to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":916.86,"endTime":921.63,"body":"be more naturally gifted, so to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":916.86,"endTime":921.63,"body":"speak at that. But the reality"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":921.63,"endTime":928.56,"body":"is, it's not an exclusive role,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":921.63,"endTime":928.56,"body":"you can learn to be a linchpin,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":928.56,"endTime":932.91,"body":"you can learn to be connecting"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":928.56,"endTime":932.91,"body":"and helping to connect, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":932.91,"endTime":936.96,"body":"know, one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":932.91,"endTime":936.96,"body":"that godine looks at is, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":936.96,"endTime":941.25,"body":"know, the role of providing a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":936.96,"endTime":941.25,"body":"unique interface between members"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":941.25,"endTime":944.76,"body":"in the organization. So 10 times"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":941.25,"endTime":944.76,"body":"you, you can be the one that can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":944.76,"endTime":950.19,"body":"help connect people that's part"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":944.76,"endTime":950.19,"body":"of a linchpin or being uniquely"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":950.19,"endTime":954.36,"body":"creative. So you bring creative"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":950.19,"endTime":954.36,"body":"solutions, and again, encourage"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":954.36,"endTime":959.76,"body":"people around you to bring their"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":954.36,"endTime":959.76,"body":"creativity that becomes a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":959.76,"endTime":966.0,"body":"linchpin type activity. or the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":959.76,"endTime":966.0,"body":"ability to manage to take"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":966.03,"endTime":971.04,"body":"complex situations and break"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":966.03,"endTime":971.04,"body":"them down into relatively simple"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":971.16,"endTime":974.19,"body":"tasks. You know, one of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":971.16,"endTime":974.19,"body":"things I love about Warren"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":974.19,"endTime":978.78,"body":"Buffett, despite his incredible"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":974.19,"endTime":978.78,"body":"wealth, and his, you know, clear"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":978.78,"endTime":982.8,"body":"wisdom, is that he loves"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":978.78,"endTime":982.8,"body":"breaking things down into being"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":982.89,"endTime":987.15,"body":"simple that so that everybody"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":982.89,"endTime":987.15,"body":"can understand them. And again,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":987.15,"endTime":989.79,"body":"I think that's part of a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":987.15,"endTime":989.79,"body":"linchpin role."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":993.54,"endTime":995.88,"body":"I think it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":993.54,"endTime":995.88,"body":"interesting cuz I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":995.88,"endTime":1001.07,"body":"mean, I think we can oftentimes,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":995.88,"endTime":1001.07,"body":"organizations, they may identify"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1001.07,"endTime":1004.01,"body":"them as linchpins, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1001.07,"endTime":1004.01,"body":"they might know those linchpins"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1004.01,"endTime":1007.07,"body":"right? But intuitively, they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1004.01,"endTime":1007.07,"body":"understand. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1007.07,"endTime":1009.86,"body":"there's, there's things like"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1007.07,"endTime":1009.86,"body":"I've worked with project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1009.86,"endTime":1012.62,"body":"managers before who they were"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1009.86,"endTime":1012.62,"body":"good at project management, they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1012.62,"endTime":1014.6,"body":"understood the project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1012.62,"endTime":1014.6,"body":"management methodology, and all"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1014.6,"endTime":1018.38,"body":"the rest of that type of stuff."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1014.6,"endTime":1018.38,"body":"But for whatever reason, they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1018.38,"endTime":1021.59,"body":"were the project managers that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1018.38,"endTime":1021.59,"body":"whenever there was a project,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1021.59,"endTime":1026.99,"body":"that was a little dicey that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1021.59,"endTime":1026.99,"body":"nobody was really sure. That was"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1026.99,"endTime":1030.62,"body":"the project manager that got"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1026.99,"endTime":1030.62,"body":"that project. Why did they get"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1030.62,"endTime":1036.14,"body":"given the hard projects? Because"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1030.62,"endTime":1036.14,"body":"everybody knew that they were"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1036.14,"endTime":1038.69,"body":"going to find a way to make it"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1036.14,"endTime":1038.69,"body":"work. They were going to get it"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1038.69,"endTime":1043.91,"body":"done. And was that because of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1038.69,"endTime":1043.91,"body":"their skills at the technical"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1043.91,"endTime":1046.34,"body":"aspects of project management?"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1043.91,"endTime":1046.34,"body":"Well, yes, they needed those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1046.34,"endTime":1049.25,"body":"skills, those are absolutely"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1046.34,"endTime":1049.25,"body":"important to getting the job"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1049.25,"endTime":1052.91,"body":"done. But that wasn't going to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1049.25,"endTime":1052.91,"body":"be enough. Right. There were"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1052.91,"endTime":1055.52,"body":"other technically as skilled"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1052.91,"endTime":1055.52,"body":"project managers that didn't get"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1055.52,"endTime":1060.74,"body":"given those projects. And people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1055.52,"endTime":1060.74,"body":"didn't necessarily identify why"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1061.19,"endTime":1064.31,"body":"they got the project, they just"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1061.19,"endTime":1064.31,"body":"knew that if you gave them the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1064.31,"endTime":1069.11,"body":"project, it just, they felt that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1064.31,"endTime":1069.11,"body":"that that scary project, I will"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1069.11,"endTime":1071.72,"body":"give it to that person, because"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1069.11,"endTime":1071.72,"body":"it does seem to work out when we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1071.72,"endTime":1075.5,"body":"give it to them. Right. And to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1071.72,"endTime":1075.5,"body":"me that that becomes those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1075.5,"endTime":1080.51,"body":"linchpin type people, those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1075.5,"endTime":1080.51,"body":"linchpin type activities, that,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1080.87,"endTime":1084.23,"body":"that you look for a linchpin to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1080.87,"endTime":1084.23,"body":"accomplish. I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1084.87,"endTime":1089.91,"body":"totally agree. And I think"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1084.87,"endTime":1089.91,"body":"what's important from, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1089.91,"endTime":1095.31,"body":"for our podcast listeners today"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1089.91,"endTime":1095.31,"body":"is to recognize that anyone can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1095.31,"endTime":1101.34,"body":"choose and it is a choice, to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1095.31,"endTime":1101.34,"body":"a linchpin. To be fair,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1101.61,"endTime":1108.09,"body":"linchpins engage differently,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1101.61,"endTime":1108.09,"body":"may end up doing more work may"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1108.09,"endTime":1114.87,"body":"end up being more involved in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1108.09,"endTime":1114.87,"body":"the project, etc. So if your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1114.87,"endTime":1118.53,"body":"comfort zone is just to stay on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1114.87,"endTime":1118.53,"body":"the periphery, keep your head"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1118.53,"endTime":1122.58,"body":"low, do your job, well, then"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1118.53,"endTime":1122.58,"body":"don't aspire to be a linchpin,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1122.58,"endTime":1126.39,"body":"because to be fair, you may be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1122.58,"endTime":1126.39,"body":"providing great value to the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1126.39,"endTime":1132.36,"body":"project. But a lynchpin is going"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1126.39,"endTime":1132.36,"body":"beyond that core value that they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1132.36,"endTime":1137.4,"body":"bring. They're really going to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1132.36,"endTime":1137.4,"body":"keep pushing beyond it. And I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1137.4,"endTime":1140.82,"body":"think for me, what's exciting"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1137.4,"endTime":1140.82,"body":"is, it is still a learned"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1140.82,"endTime":1141.39,"body":"behavior."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1142.14,"endTime":1147.12,"body":"So, you know, my suggestion in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1142.14,"endTime":1147.12,"body":"any project world is to say, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1147.12,"endTime":1151.86,"body":"know, maybe you are lynchpin for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1147.12,"endTime":1151.86,"body":"a phase of the project. And and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1151.86,"endTime":1155.43,"body":"then, you know, the next phase"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1151.86,"endTime":1155.43,"body":"isn't necessarily one where you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1155.43,"endTime":1159.63,"body":"can bring as much value in that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1155.43,"endTime":1159.63,"body":"linchpin type role. And so"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1159.63,"endTime":1161.94,"body":"you're, you know, allowing"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1159.63,"endTime":1161.94,"body":"someone else to step into that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1162.06,"endTime":1166.11,"body":"and you become a supporter of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1162.06,"endTime":1166.11,"body":"their activities and so on. So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1166.2,"endTime":1168.27,"body":"really, what we're looking at"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1166.2,"endTime":1168.27,"body":"when we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1168.27,"endTime":1175.23,"body":"linchpins is an individual or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1168.27,"endTime":1175.23,"body":"individuals on a team who just"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1175.23,"endTime":1179.25,"body":"help make things happen. \"Well"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1175.23,"endTime":1179.25,"body":"never say that's not my job.\""},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1181.02,"endTime":1188.88,"body":"But at the same time, who are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1181.02,"endTime":1188.88,"body":"protective enough if your wish,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1189.12,"endTime":1194.04,"body":"have their own roles and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1189.12,"endTime":1194.04,"body":"responsibilities so as to still"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1194.04,"endTime":1199.38,"body":"do the job that you know is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1194.04,"endTime":1199.38,"body":"there nominal paid for job and I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1199.38,"endTime":1202.83,"body":"think that's that challenge is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1199.38,"endTime":1202.83,"body":"finding it's the above and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1202.83,"endTime":1206.34,"body":"beyond because clearly, not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1202.83,"endTime":1206.34,"body":"everybody chooses to be a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1206.34,"endTime":1210.3,"body":"linchpin. But if you choose to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1206.34,"endTime":1210.3,"body":"be a linchpin don't do so at the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1210.3,"endTime":1214.29,"body":"cost of doing what it is you're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1210.3,"endTime":1214.29,"body":"paying for. It really is an"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1214.35,"endTime":1217.47,"body":"extra activity. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1214.35,"endTime":1217.47,"body":"that's one of the one of the key"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1217.47,"endTime":1222.57,"body":"things and in many cases, to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1217.47,"endTime":1222.57,"body":"fair, linchpin is a mindset as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1222.57,"endTime":1227.91,"body":"well. It's a philosophy, it's a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1222.57,"endTime":1227.91,"body":"thinking it's translated into"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1227.91,"endTime":1233.31,"body":"action. But one has to think at"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1227.91,"endTime":1233.31,"body":"a different level to perform as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1233.31,"endTime":1235.65,"body":"a linchpin. Does that make"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1233.31,"endTime":1235.65,"body":"sense?"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1235.73,"endTime":1237.47,"body":"Yeah, no, I think it did"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1235.73,"endTime":1237.47,"body":"think it absolutely does make"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1237.47,"endTime":1237.8,"body":"sense."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1238.71,"endTime":1241.32,"body":"So as we wrap this up"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1238.71,"endTime":1241.32,"body":"today, and I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1241.32,"endTime":1245.85,"body":"the insights, Dale, we, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1241.32,"endTime":1245.85,"body":"know, we want to stress that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1246.39,"endTime":1255.93,"body":"being a linchpin is about being"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1246.39,"endTime":1255.93,"body":"a visible tangible support to a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1255.93,"endTime":1260.37,"body":"project that really does go"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1255.93,"endTime":1260.37,"body":"above and beyond. And it's not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1260.37,"endTime":1263.79,"body":"about minimalist thinking, it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1260.37,"endTime":1263.79,"body":"truly is about thinking,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1263.97,"endTime":1267.21,"body":"stepping back and looking at the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1263.97,"endTime":1267.21,"body":"overall needs of the project."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1267.36,"endTime":1271.14,"body":"Where can I jump in, without"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1267.36,"endTime":1271.14,"body":"having to be asked and so on."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1271.41,"endTime":1275.64,"body":"And that linchpin thinking will"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1271.41,"endTime":1275.64,"body":"make you know, the more lynchpin"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1275.64,"endTime":1278.67,"body":"thinking we have in a project,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1275.64,"endTime":1278.67,"body":"the easier that project is for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1278.67,"endTime":1283.68,"body":"absolutely everyone. There are a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1278.67,"endTime":1283.68,"body":"bunch of suggestions that you'll"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1283.68,"endTime":1287.61,"body":"find in the show notes, if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1283.68,"endTime":1287.61,"body":"check those out on the website,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1287.85,"endTime":1291.51,"body":"and I'd say if you if you leave"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1287.85,"endTime":1291.51,"body":"a comment, that would be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1291.51,"endTime":1295.62,"body":"wonderful. If you decide to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1291.51,"endTime":1295.62,"body":"leave a comment and want to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1295.62,"endTime":1298.08,"body":"leave a way for us to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1295.62,"endTime":1298.08,"body":"communicate or connect with you."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1298.35,"endTime":1302.31,"body":"I'd be happy to send you an"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1298.35,"endTime":1302.31,"body":"actual physical linchpin as a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1302.31,"endTime":1306.87,"body":"reminder of the mindset that's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1302.31,"endTime":1306.87,"body":"required in that linchpin"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1306.96,"endTime":1312.03,"body":"thinking. It's been fun thinking"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1306.96,"endTime":1312.03,"body":"about the above and beyond. I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1312.03,"endTime":1314.64,"body":"know we, you know, it's about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1312.03,"endTime":1314.64,"body":"relationships. It's about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1315.12,"endTime":1318.75,"body":"building, we talked about the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1315.12,"endTime":1318.75,"body":"glue. Ultimately, at the end of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1318.75,"endTime":1322.2,"body":"the day, every one of us has an"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1318.75,"endTime":1322.2,"body":"opportunity to be a lynchpin, or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1322.2,"endTime":1327.69,"body":"an opportunity not to. And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1322.2,"endTime":1327.69,"body":"sometimes it's not our season to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1327.69,"endTime":1332.46,"body":"be that linchpin. But if it is,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1327.69,"endTime":1332.46,"body":"embrace it, have fun with it,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1332.85,"endTime":1336.6,"body":"and make a difference out there."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1332.85,"endTime":1336.6,"body":"And whatever you do, do it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1336.6,"endTime":1343.32,"body":"safely. Thanks to Ela for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1336.6,"endTime":1343.32,"body":"engineering. Thanks, Dale for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1343.62,"endTime":1348.78,"body":"getting getting involved and we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1343.62,"endTime":1348.78,"body":"look forward to meeting you all"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1348.78,"endTime":1349.59,"body":"in the next episode."}]}