{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":11.22,"endTime":15.69,"body":"Welcome to messy but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":11.22,"endTime":15.69,"body":"essential. I'm Rod Stillwell."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":16.08,"endTime":19.53,"body":"And this is the podcast about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":16.08,"endTime":19.53,"body":"the people side of project"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":19.53,"endTime":24.48,"body":"leadership is where we help you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":19.53,"endTime":24.48,"body":"improve your soft skills to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":24.48,"endTime":28.17,"body":"reduce hard costs. In today's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":24.48,"endTime":28.17,"body":"episode, we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":28.17,"endTime":32.52,"body":"taking a deep dive into the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":28.17,"endTime":32.52,"body":"relationship between the boss"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":32.73,"endTime":36.96,"body":"and the people reporting to her"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":32.73,"endTime":36.96,"body":"or him with them. And we're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":36.96,"endTime":40.53,"body":"going to be looking at how"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":36.96,"endTime":40.53,"body":"important it is to ensure that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":40.53,"endTime":44.61,"body":"that relationship is of a high"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":40.53,"endTime":44.61,"body":"caliber. Ultimately, in order to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":44.61,"endTime":49.2,"body":"keep people on the job retention"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":44.61,"endTime":49.2,"body":"is a huge issue these days,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":49.47,"endTime":51.63,"body":"economists are telling us that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":49.47,"endTime":51.63,"body":"it's going to continue for quite"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":51.63,"endTime":55.2,"body":"some time, etc, as a challenge."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":51.63,"endTime":55.2,"body":"So we want to look at that, but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":55.2,"endTime":58.35,"body":"in the context, of course of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":55.2,"endTime":58.35,"body":"projects, as opposed to the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":58.35,"endTime":64.11,"body":"normal corporate role. Joining"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":58.35,"endTime":64.11,"body":"me in studio today is my brother"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":64.11,"endTime":68.16,"body":"and business partner Dale,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":64.11,"endTime":68.16,"body":"coming with a significant"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":69.18,"endTime":73.11,"body":"project experience, and on both"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":69.18,"endTime":73.11,"body":"sides, both part of the project"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":73.26,"endTime":77.22,"body":"and leading projects. So we'll"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":73.26,"endTime":77.22,"body":"have a look at the tension from"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":77.28,"endTime":81.87,"body":"both sides of the desk, if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":77.28,"endTime":81.87,"body":"wish. But before we jump into"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":81.87,"endTime":84.96,"body":"that, let's take a moment to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":81.87,"endTime":84.96,"body":"talk about safety. We happen to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":84.96,"endTime":89.79,"body":"be recording this in the month"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":84.96,"endTime":89.79,"body":"of November. And for most parts"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":89.79,"endTime":93.69,"body":"of the world, that's a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":89.79,"endTime":93.69,"body":"change of seasons. It's a time"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":93.69,"endTime":97.14,"body":"when, if you're in the northern"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":93.69,"endTime":97.14,"body":"hemisphere, we're moving from"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":97.14,"endTime":101.07,"body":"summer and fall into potential"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":97.14,"endTime":101.07,"body":"winter. That means slippery"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":101.07,"endTime":103.98,"body":"conditions, things that we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":101.07,"endTime":103.98,"body":"haven't experienced for the last"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":104.1,"endTime":106.77,"body":"six months or so. And of course,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":104.1,"endTime":106.77,"body":"if we're in the southern"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":106.77,"endTime":109.53,"body":"hemisphere, it's the other way"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":106.77,"endTime":109.53,"body":"around. So one way or the other,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":109.56,"endTime":113.67,"body":"that change of seasons, brings"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":109.56,"endTime":113.67,"body":"with it a need to re"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":113.67,"endTime":116.07,"body":"acclimatized ourselves to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":113.67,"endTime":116.07,"body":"something different. So from a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":116.07,"endTime":118.14,"body":"safety perspective, whether"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":116.07,"endTime":118.14,"body":"that's on a project, whether"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":118.14,"endTime":121.92,"body":"that's at home, whether that's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":118.14,"endTime":121.92,"body":"in the office, or just out"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":121.92,"endTime":125.58,"body":"enjoying yourself, in some"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":121.92,"endTime":125.58,"body":"leisure activity, being"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":125.58,"endTime":128.43,"body":"conscious of the fact that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":125.58,"endTime":128.43,"body":"temperatures are changing,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":128.61,"endTime":133.02,"body":"conditions are changing, and we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":128.61,"endTime":133.02,"body":"need to pay attention. So that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":133.02,"endTime":137.25,"body":"we last week, in the podcast of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":133.02,"endTime":137.25,"body":"the previous episode, we talked"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":137.25,"endTime":143.67,"body":"quite a bit about the bigger"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":137.25,"endTime":143.67,"body":"picture of employee retention,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":143.67,"endTime":147.03,"body":"if you wish project, team member"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":143.67,"endTime":147.03,"body":"retention, it was in terms of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":147.03,"endTime":150.78,"body":"purpose and, and kind of why"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":147.03,"endTime":150.78,"body":"we're doing it. But today, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":150.78,"endTime":154.89,"body":"want to do a bit of a deep dive"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":150.78,"endTime":154.89,"body":"into understanding what is it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":154.92,"endTime":160.8,"body":"that project leads and do to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":154.92,"endTime":160.8,"body":"actually ensure that people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":160.8,"endTime":165.3,"body":"stay, economists are telling us"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":160.8,"endTime":165.3,"body":"that for the next literally 15"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":165.3,"endTime":171.33,"body":"years, we're going to be in a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":165.3,"endTime":171.33,"body":"labor shortage situation, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":171.33,"endTime":175.17,"body":"supply and the demand are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":171.33,"endTime":175.17,"body":"getting wider and wider, the gap"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":175.17,"endTime":178.29,"body":"is getting wider, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":175.17,"endTime":178.29,"body":"going to start to change for the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":178.29,"endTime":181.56,"body":"next 10 or 15 years. So we're in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":178.29,"endTime":181.56,"body":"this for the long haul. This"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":181.56,"endTime":184.83,"body":"isn't like, you know, when we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":181.56,"endTime":184.83,"body":"began COVID, we didn't know how"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":184.83,"endTime":187.74,"body":"long we were going to be in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":184.83,"endTime":187.74,"body":"this. So you know, we we took"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":187.74,"endTime":190.59,"body":"our time making decisions, etc."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":187.74,"endTime":190.59,"body":"Because we thought every month"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":190.74,"endTime":193.77,"body":"was going to be the last month."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":190.74,"endTime":193.77,"body":"Well, we now know that we've got"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":193.77,"endTime":198.09,"body":"good 10 to 15 years ahead of us"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":193.77,"endTime":198.09,"body":"where the labor market is going"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":198.09,"endTime":201.84,"body":"to be a challenge. Getting good"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":198.09,"endTime":201.84,"body":"people and keeping good people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":201.93,"endTime":205.05,"body":"is going to become more and more"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":201.93,"endTime":205.05,"body":"of a corporate priority. And in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":205.05,"endTime":210.51,"body":"fact, a differentiator in terms"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":205.05,"endTime":210.51,"body":"of business success. So let's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":210.51,"endTime":212.94,"body":"talk about specifically, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":210.51,"endTime":212.94,"body":"know, if you're sitting in a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":212.94,"endTime":219.78,"body":"chair of a project lead today,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":212.94,"endTime":219.78,"body":"keeping your people on board has"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":219.78,"endTime":222.36,"body":"got to be one of your number one"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":219.78,"endTime":222.36,"body":"priorities. Would you agree? I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":222.36,"endTime":226.59,"body":"know, I would totally agree. I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":222.36,"endTime":226.59,"body":"mean, I think that is one of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":226.59,"endTime":230.52,"body":"your main roles as a project"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":226.59,"endTime":230.52,"body":"leader or budget manager is the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":230.79,"endTime":234.15,"body":"resources that are on your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":230.79,"endTime":234.15,"body":"project and keeping them as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":234.15,"endTime":239.22,"body":"functional and high quality as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":234.15,"endTime":239.22,"body":"you can throughout the duration"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":239.22,"endTime":241.23,"body":"of the project. Otherwise, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":239.22,"endTime":241.23,"body":"don't have any chance of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":241.23,"endTime":247.2,"body":"success. I think sometimes we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":241.23,"endTime":247.2,"body":"pay lip service to our strength"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":247.2,"endTime":252.96,"body":"is our people. Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":247.2,"endTime":252.96,"body":"And but what we're seeing is, in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":252.96,"endTime":255.69,"body":"fact, our strength is our"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":252.96,"endTime":255.69,"body":"people. And if we don't get"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":255.69,"endTime":258.39,"body":"that, right, yeah, we can get"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":255.69,"endTime":258.39,"body":"the engineering, right, we can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":258.39,"endTime":261.18,"body":"get the software, right, we can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":258.39,"endTime":261.18,"body":"get a whole bunch of other"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":261.18,"endTime":264.93,"body":"things, right. But if we don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":261.18,"endTime":264.93,"body":"get the people, right, we're,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":265.02,"endTime":268.5,"body":"it's a challenge. And I'll tell"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":265.02,"endTime":268.5,"body":"you in the many years where I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":268.53,"endTime":273.63,"body":"did project audits, basically,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":268.53,"endTime":273.63,"body":"looking at the what we used to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":273.63,"endTime":276.12,"body":"call post mortems. You might"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":273.63,"endTime":276.12,"body":"want to call them after action"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":276.12,"endTime":279.39,"body":"reviews, whatever that might be."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":276.12,"endTime":279.39,"body":"One of the questions I would"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":279.39,"endTime":283.77,"body":"always ask was, would the team"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":279.39,"endTime":283.77,"body":"work together again in another"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":283.77,"endTime":287.46,"body":"project? Now, you might have met"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":283.77,"endTime":287.46,"body":"the budget, you might have met"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":287.46,"endTime":291.99,"body":"the scope, you might have met"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":287.46,"endTime":291.99,"body":"the type of timeline. But if a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":291.99,"endTime":296.73,"body":"team absolutely refuses to work"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":291.99,"endTime":296.73,"body":"together again, what's the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":296.73,"endTime":300.81,"body":"project really successful? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":296.73,"endTime":300.81,"body":"so let's see. Talk about those"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":301.02,"endTime":303.81,"body":"some of those individual things"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":301.02,"endTime":303.81,"body":"what, you know, if you were"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":303.81,"endTime":307.65,"body":"looking again at what are you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":303.81,"endTime":307.65,"body":"doing to help people stay on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":307.65,"endTime":310.11,"body":"board? I mean, I think,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":311.44,"endTime":314.35,"body":"you know, that's, that is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":311.44,"endTime":314.35,"body":"a big challenge, especially for"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":314.35,"endTime":316.6,"body":"project leaders and project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":314.35,"endTime":316.6,"body":"managers. And, you know, we know"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":316.6,"endTime":319.78,"body":"that, that one of the biggest"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":316.6,"endTime":319.78,"body":"reasons people leave"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":319.78,"endTime":323.26,"body":"organizations or change jobs is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":319.78,"endTime":323.26,"body":"because of the relationship with"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":323.26,"endTime":326.83,"body":"their boss. So we've known for a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":323.26,"endTime":326.83,"body":"long time that that's a big part"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":326.83,"endTime":331.87,"body":"of retention. I don't think that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":326.83,"endTime":331.87,"body":"a lot of project managers or"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":331.87,"endTime":336.73,"body":"project leads see themselves as"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":331.87,"endTime":336.73,"body":"the boss of the people on that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":336.73,"endTime":339.37,"body":"project. So I don't think they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":336.73,"endTime":339.37,"body":"see that relationship. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":339.4,"endTime":342.46,"body":"they understand that they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":339.4,"endTime":342.46,"body":"control the schedule, that they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":342.49,"endTime":345.04,"body":"have a lot of control around"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":342.49,"endTime":345.04,"body":"around tasks and those types of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":345.04,"endTime":347.56,"body":"things. But I don't think they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":345.04,"endTime":347.56,"body":"see themselves quite in that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":347.59,"endTime":353.47,"body":"boss. role from a relationship"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":347.59,"endTime":353.47,"body":"perspective. The people in the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":353.47,"endTime":358.66,"body":"project, however, I think, are"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":353.47,"endTime":358.66,"body":"see that more clearly. Because"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":358.69,"endTime":361.96,"body":"they know that this is the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":358.69,"endTime":361.96,"body":"person who reports back to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":361.96,"endTime":365.47,"body":"senior leadership, this is the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":361.96,"endTime":365.47,"body":"person who controls the tasks on"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":365.47,"endTime":368.5,"body":"the schedules. This is the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":365.47,"endTime":368.5,"body":"person who so that person has a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":368.5,"endTime":374.05,"body":"lot of a boss like influences on"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":368.5,"endTime":374.05,"body":"that person's job and career. So"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":374.05,"endTime":377.32,"body":"it's perhaps clear from the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":374.05,"endTime":377.32,"body":"perspective of the person on the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":377.32,"endTime":379.78,"body":"project, but I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":377.32,"endTime":379.78,"body":"as clear from the leader, the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":379.78,"endTime":385.15,"body":"project manager. So that poses,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":379.78,"endTime":385.15,"body":"you know, even more of a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":385.15,"endTime":387.94,"body":"challenge, because you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":385.15,"endTime":387.94,"body":"that to put yourself into that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":387.94,"endTime":393.31,"body":"headspace of saying, okay, my"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":387.94,"endTime":393.31,"body":"relationship with the people on"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":393.31,"endTime":398.89,"body":"this project is, you know, has"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":393.31,"endTime":398.89,"body":"components to it that I might"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":398.89,"endTime":399.85,"body":"not have thought about."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":401.98,"endTime":406.21,"body":"That's very valid. You have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":401.98,"endTime":406.21,"body":"fluid, right? 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And"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":425.83,"endTime":428.74,"body":"some of them as you say, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":425.83,"endTime":428.74,"body":"know, they have other functional"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":428.74,"endTime":433.6,"body":"roles as well. And so we're a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":428.74,"endTime":433.6,"body":"part of their life. But"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":433.6,"endTime":438.46,"body":"ultimately, the relationship we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":433.6,"endTime":438.46,"body":"have with them is about their"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":438.94,"endTime":443.14,"body":"contribution to this project."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":438.94,"endTime":443.14,"body":"And so even though we may not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":443.14,"endTime":446.65,"body":"have perfectly, we may not see,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":443.14,"endTime":446.65,"body":"you know, our direct role that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":446.65,"endTime":448.66,"body":"we have in keeping with the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":446.65,"endTime":448.66,"body":"company, for instance of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":448.66,"endTime":452.71,"body":"business and whatever their"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":448.66,"endTime":452.71,"body":"experience on the project is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":452.71,"endTime":456.07,"body":"real to them. And their"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":452.71,"endTime":456.07,"body":"relationship with us as project"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":456.07,"endTime":460.99,"body":"managers is real to them as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":456.07,"endTime":460.99,"body":"well. It's really interesting,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":460.99,"endTime":465.28,"body":"because, you know, a recent"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":460.99,"endTime":465.28,"body":"study showed that if all things"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":465.28,"endTime":468.82,"body":"were equal, if you could quit"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":465.28,"endTime":468.82,"body":"your job, and not have to worry"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":468.82,"endTime":472.18,"body":"about money and not have to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":468.82,"endTime":472.18,"body":"worry about other things 80% of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":472.18,"endTime":476.77,"body":"North Americans would start"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":472.18,"endTime":476.77,"body":"going to work. So that's pretty"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":476.77,"endTime":481.21,"body":"significant. I mean, it suggests"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":476.77,"endTime":481.21,"body":"that only 20% of people going to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":481.21,"endTime":484.36,"body":"work because they love it, etc."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":481.21,"endTime":484.36,"body":"They just want to be there. I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":484.36,"endTime":486.1,"body":"mean, there's always that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":484.36,"endTime":486.1,"body":"question, if you won the lottery"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":486.1,"endTime":489.25,"body":"tomorrow, would you continue"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":486.1,"endTime":489.25,"body":"going to work? And some people?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":489.28,"endTime":492.07,"body":"I mean, of course, it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":489.28,"endTime":492.07,"body":"hypothetical, because we have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":492.07,"endTime":496.24,"body":"won the lottery, but some"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":492.07,"endTime":496.24,"body":"people? Absolutely. So the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":496.24,"endTime":499.09,"body":"people who are absolutely, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":496.24,"endTime":499.09,"body":"continued going to work, I bet"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":499.09,"endTime":502.18,"body":"if we go down, we would discover"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":499.09,"endTime":502.18,"body":"that if you keep going to work,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":502.24,"endTime":504.94,"body":"not just because the work was a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":502.24,"endTime":504.94,"body":"challenge and exciting, but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":504.94,"endTime":509.89,"body":"because of the relationships"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":504.94,"endTime":509.89,"body":"that they didn't want to lose. I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":509.89,"endTime":515.8,"body":"think coupled with that we as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":509.89,"endTime":515.8,"body":"project leads, we struggle with"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":515.8,"endTime":521.62,"body":"the fact that we don't have 100%"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":515.8,"endTime":521.62,"body":"of control over this person's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":521.62,"endTime":526.66,"body":"time. So it's almost like"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":521.62,"endTime":526.66,"body":"managing volunteers to get some,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":526.78,"endTime":531.16,"body":"you know, in some cases, and of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":526.78,"endTime":531.16,"body":"course, a volunteer by nature of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":531.16,"endTime":535.81,"body":"the engagement can leave if they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":531.16,"endTime":535.81,"body":"want to leave. So I think it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":535.81,"endTime":541.48,"body":"incumbent on project leads to,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":535.81,"endTime":541.48,"body":"to be even more aware of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":541.48,"endTime":546.22,"body":"relationship that they're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":541.48,"endTime":546.22,"body":"creating. Now, I add to that,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":546.25,"endTime":549.13,"body":"we've talked about that. 80%."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":546.25,"endTime":549.13,"body":"But I add to that, the fact"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":549.13,"endTime":554.62,"body":"that, you know, we keep talking"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":549.13,"endTime":554.62,"body":"about motivating people and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":555.52,"endTime":560.02,"body":"engagement and those kinds of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":555.52,"endTime":560.02,"body":"things. But recently, I've"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":560.02,"endTime":564.1,"body":"started to look in to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":560.02,"endTime":564.1,"body":"understanding how do we inspire"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":564.28,"endTime":568.36,"body":"each other? You know, we often"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":564.28,"endTime":568.36,"body":"will give feedback when we talk"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":568.36,"endTime":573.25,"body":"to people in Project context, in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":568.36,"endTime":573.25,"body":"the work context and building"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":573.25,"endTime":577.54,"body":"that relationship. And there are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":573.25,"endTime":577.54,"body":"times when I know for instance,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":577.54,"endTime":582.25,"body":"in my marriage, there have been"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":577.54,"endTime":582.25,"body":"times where I will get into a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":582.28,"endTime":587.68,"body":"bit of a confrontation with my"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":582.28,"endTime":587.68,"body":"spouse, and she will stop me and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":587.68,"endTime":592.87,"body":"say, Would you talk to a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":587.68,"endTime":592.87,"body":"customer that way? And I find"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":592.87,"endTime":599.44,"body":"myself thinking, No, I wouldn't."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":592.87,"endTime":599.44,"body":"Why is it that we don't treat"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":599.53,"endTime":601.96,"body":"our staff like they were"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":599.53,"endTime":601.96,"body":"customer."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":603.34,"endTime":607.81,"body":"So part of that relationship as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":603.34,"endTime":607.81,"body":"well is, am I taking you for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":607.81,"endTime":613.18,"body":"granted? How am I treating you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":607.81,"endTime":613.18,"body":"with respect them so on? So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":613.69,"endTime":618.73,"body":"let's bring it back then to the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":613.69,"endTime":618.73,"body":"for doing this deep dive. What's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":618.73,"endTime":625.84,"body":"that conversation sound like"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":618.73,"endTime":625.84,"body":"look like in terms of the way we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":626.14,"endTime":629.11,"body":"talk to people on our teams, the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":626.14,"endTime":629.11,"body":"way we treat them and so on?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":629.26,"endTime":633.79,"body":"Because those words are powerful"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":629.26,"endTime":633.79,"body":"in terms of the relationship"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":633.79,"endTime":638.08,"body":"that we have. Yeah. So kind of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":633.79,"endTime":638.08,"body":"question for you imagine a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":638.08,"endTime":642.04,"body":"scenario where we're running a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":638.08,"endTime":642.04,"body":"little late. And you need to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":642.04,"endTime":646.66,"body":"have a conversation with me"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":642.04,"endTime":646.66,"body":"about the fact that my component"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":647.35,"endTime":650.32,"body":"isn't arriving on time. And in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":647.35,"endTime":650.32,"body":"that sense, I'm holding up a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":650.32,"endTime":655.24,"body":"number of other people, part of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":650.32,"endTime":655.24,"body":"the project or whatever, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":655.24,"endTime":659.71,"body":"know, what's, what is your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":655.24,"endTime":659.71,"body":"relationship come in to that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":659.71,"endTime":660.37,"body":"dialogue."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":662.61,"endTime":666.33,"body":"And, and it's due, to your"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":662.61,"endTime":666.33,"body":"point, it's tough to write"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":666.33,"endTime":671.34,"body":"because in a regular boss"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":666.33,"endTime":671.34,"body":"relationship, you obviously are"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":671.34,"endTime":673.98,"body":"managing deliverables and those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":671.34,"endTime":673.98,"body":"types of things. But you also"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":673.98,"endTime":676.77,"body":"get a chance to be part of the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":673.98,"endTime":676.77,"body":"career planning and the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":676.77,"endTime":679.32,"body":"development and all of those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":676.77,"endTime":679.32,"body":"conversations, you don't get any"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":679.32,"endTime":681.72,"body":"of those as a project manager,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":679.32,"endTime":681.72,"body":"right? The only ones you get the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":681.72,"endTime":685.5,"body":"hard conversations. That's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":681.72,"endTime":685.5,"body":"that's the reality, that is part"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":685.5,"endTime":690.69,"body":"of the job. So yeah, your your,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":685.5,"endTime":690.69,"body":"most of your interactions with"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":690.69,"endTime":697.35,"body":"that team, are going to be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":690.69,"endTime":697.35,"body":"around some stress point, a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":697.35,"endTime":700.62,"body":"deliverable of some kind of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":697.35,"endTime":700.62,"body":"timeline, a budget of whatever"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":700.62,"endTime":703.83,"body":"something went wrong. So you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":700.62,"endTime":703.83,"body":"know, obviously, you've got some"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":703.83,"endTime":707.73,"body":"that are successes, like we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":703.83,"endTime":707.73,"body":"talked about last time, and you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":707.73,"endTime":709.74,"body":"do want to celebrate those of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":707.73,"endTime":709.74,"body":"you who want to take as much"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":709.74,"endTime":712.08,"body":"advantage of those as you can to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":709.74,"endTime":712.08,"body":"build relationships, nothing"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":712.08,"endTime":714.93,"body":"else. But you are going to have"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":712.08,"endTime":714.93,"body":"an awful lot of conversations"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":714.96,"endTime":721.56,"body":"that are going to be around some"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":714.96,"endTime":721.56,"body":"kind of stress. So how you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":721.56,"endTime":723.57,"body":"manage those conversations, how"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":721.56,"endTime":723.57,"body":"you deal with those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":723.57,"endTime":730.2,"body":"conversations, I think are is a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":723.57,"endTime":730.2,"body":"huge part of the success or not."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":730.71,"endTime":734.49,"body":"And a lot of that, to your point"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":730.71,"endTime":734.49,"body":"comes down to attitude and the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":734.49,"endTime":738.09,"body":"language that we express with"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":734.49,"endTime":738.09,"body":"our attitudes, you know, so I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":738.09,"endTime":746.31,"body":"think one of the first things"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":738.09,"endTime":746.31,"body":"that comes to mind for me is not"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":746.34,"endTime":753.09,"body":"to take the schedule or the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":746.34,"endTime":753.09,"body":"deliverable of the whatever"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":753.09,"endTime":757.35,"body":"person, right, it kind of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":753.09,"endTime":757.35,"body":"becomes, it can kind of become"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":757.35,"endTime":760.11,"body":"easy to sort of look at it and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":757.35,"endTime":760.11,"body":"think you're screwing up my"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":760.11,"endTime":763.98,"body":"timeline. You're mucking, not my"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":760.11,"endTime":763.98,"body":"deliverables are getting in the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":763.98,"endTime":769.86,"body":"way of my success of the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":763.98,"endTime":769.86,"body":"project. While there may be a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":769.86,"endTime":773.19,"body":"part of that, that's true. I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":769.86,"endTime":773.19,"body":"think as a project leader or"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":773.19,"endTime":777.3,"body":"project manager, you need to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":773.19,"endTime":777.3,"body":"move away from you need to not"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":778.02,"endTime":784.14,"body":"show that specifically to the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":778.02,"endTime":784.14,"body":"team members. You know, it's our"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":784.14,"endTime":788.94,"body":"project, it's our deliverable."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":784.14,"endTime":788.94,"body":"But if it ever becomes a, this"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":788.94,"endTime":793.29,"body":"is mine, and you're breaking it,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":788.94,"endTime":793.29,"body":"I think you right off the bat"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":793.29,"endTime":795.6,"body":"that relationships gonna go"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":793.29,"endTime":795.6,"body":"down?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":795.9,"endTime":799.23,"body":"Well, it's certainly you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":795.9,"endTime":799.23,"body":"put you as the most important as"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":799.23,"endTime":805.05,"body":"opposed to them. And in any"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":799.23,"endTime":805.05,"body":"relationship, you know, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":805.05,"endTime":808.59,"body":"the most important, right, if"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":805.05,"endTime":808.59,"body":"it's always all about me, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":808.95,"endTime":811.8,"body":"there's no question that you're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":808.95,"endTime":811.8,"body":"going to feel on the defensive,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":811.8,"endTime":814.26,"body":"you're going to end you're going"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":811.8,"endTime":814.26,"body":"to respond. So if we bring it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":814.26,"endTime":819.6,"body":"back to the whole retention"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":814.26,"endTime":819.6,"body":"side, then part of helping"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":819.6,"endTime":822.78,"body":"people stay, whether that's on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":819.6,"endTime":822.78,"body":"the project or with the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":822.78,"endTime":827.25,"body":"business, or whatever, is what"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":822.78,"endTime":827.25,"body":"that dialogue looks like, when"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":827.25,"endTime":831.39,"body":"performance isn't where we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":827.25,"endTime":831.39,"body":"needed to be. I think if we add"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":831.39,"endTime":839.82,"body":"to that, the fact that we often"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":831.39,"endTime":839.82,"body":"only approach people, especially"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":839.82,"endTime":843.24,"body":"in the project world, when we're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":839.82,"endTime":843.24,"body":"in trouble or when things are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":843.24,"endTime":846.84,"body":"delayed or whatever, we don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":843.24,"endTime":846.84,"body":"have enough of the proactive"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":846.84,"endTime":850.23,"body":"conversations, because we're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":846.84,"endTime":850.23,"body":"busy and all sorts of things are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":850.23,"endTime":855.09,"body":"happening that allow us to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":850.23,"endTime":855.09,"body":"change that balance. Some"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":855.09,"endTime":858.54,"body":"studies have shown that for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":855.09,"endTime":858.54,"body":"every negative comment, you need"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":858.57,"endTime":861.99,"body":"10 positive comments in order to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":858.57,"endTime":861.99,"body":"counteract it, because our"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":861.99,"endTime":867.24,"body":"psyches, even the language we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":861.99,"endTime":867.24,"body":"use is often very immune. It's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":867.24,"endTime":874.38,"body":"an industrial age. language that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":867.24,"endTime":874.38,"body":"really comes in many cases from"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":874.47,"endTime":878.07,"body":"military applications. So you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":874.47,"endTime":878.07,"body":"know, we, you know, we talk"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":878.07,"endTime":881.19,"body":"about, you know, we blew that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":878.07,"endTime":881.19,"body":"one out of the water or we you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":881.19,"endTime":886.35,"body":"know, we're gonna we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":881.19,"endTime":886.35,"body":"blow this up, but you know, we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":886.35,"endTime":889.62,"body":"use those things. Even somebody"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":886.35,"endTime":889.62,"body":"the other day said to me, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":889.62,"endTime":894.21,"body":"know, even in PowerPoint, we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":889.62,"endTime":894.21,"body":"have bullets. Right? We crashed"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":894.21,"endTime":897.99,"body":"at you. That's right, right,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":894.21,"endTime":897.99,"body":"exactly. So we use all of these"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":898.17,"endTime":903.33,"body":"kind of more. Yep. granulated"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":898.17,"endTime":903.33,"body":"aggressive, and our subconscious"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":903.33,"endTime":907.17,"body":"responds to those as aggressive"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":903.33,"endTime":907.17,"body":"terms, whether we like it or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":907.17,"endTime":911.55,"body":"not. So again, we turn it back"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":907.17,"endTime":911.55,"body":"to even paying attention to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":911.58,"endTime":915.93,"body":"language to how we're starting"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":911.58,"endTime":915.93,"body":"that conversation. And I think"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":915.93,"endTime":918.21,"body":"if the only time I ever get to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":915.93,"endTime":918.21,"body":"talk to you is when I'm in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":918.21,"endTime":924.03,"body":"trouble, or when maybe not in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":918.21,"endTime":924.03,"body":"trouble. No, things are not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":924.45,"endTime":928.86,"body":"going well, then, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":924.45,"endTime":928.86,"body":"immediately going to be on the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":928.86,"endTime":932.46,"body":"defensive, right, if every time"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":928.86,"endTime":932.46,"body":"you know, in high school, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":932.46,"endTime":935.31,"body":"got called into the principal's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":932.46,"endTime":935.31,"body":"office was because you were in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":935.31,"endTime":938.25,"body":"trouble, you don't see the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":935.31,"endTime":938.25,"body":"principal, as an ally in your"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":938.25,"endTime":940.56,"body":"education, you see the principal"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":938.25,"endTime":940.56,"body":"as the guy you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":940.56,"endTime":944.19,"body":"have to ever meet. So I think"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":940.56,"endTime":944.19,"body":"the same goes in projects, it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":944.19,"endTime":947.82,"body":"even more of a challenge, of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":944.19,"endTime":947.82,"body":"course, and say, the regular"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":947.82,"endTime":949.92,"body":"relationship of a non project"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":947.82,"endTime":949.92,"body":"manager."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":950.22,"endTime":952.56,"body":"So because I think you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":950.22,"endTime":952.56,"body":"know, you, as you said, the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":952.56,"endTime":957.3,"body":"relationship component, right,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":952.56,"endTime":957.3,"body":"and how, so on a given project,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":958.02,"endTime":961.71,"body":"you may have some people on that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":958.02,"endTime":961.71,"body":"project that you've known for a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":961.71,"endTime":964.68,"body":"long time, because you work for"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":961.71,"endTime":964.68,"body":"some organization, but you may"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":964.68,"endTime":967.5,"body":"not, you may have people that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":964.68,"endTime":967.5,"body":"have come into that project from"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":967.68,"endTime":969.87,"body":"a totally different part of the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":967.68,"endTime":969.87,"body":"organization, and you don't know"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":969.87,"endTime":973.2,"body":"them at all. So you've got this"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":969.87,"endTime":973.2,"body":"real mix of relationships. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":973.2,"endTime":977.55,"body":"obviously, you know, if you have"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":973.2,"endTime":977.55,"body":"some people that you have a good"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":977.55,"endTime":979.83,"body":"professional relationship with,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":977.55,"endTime":979.83,"body":"because you've known them for a"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":979.83,"endTime":983.64,"body":"long time, you've developed"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":979.83,"endTime":983.64,"body":"some, some ground rules around"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":983.64,"endTime":987.84,"body":"that relationship, you're you,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":983.64,"endTime":987.84,"body":"you know, you know how to talk"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":987.84,"endTime":991.2,"body":"to each other? You can you've"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":987.84,"endTime":991.2,"body":"had situations before, that you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":991.2,"endTime":994.32,"body":"can, you know, base your"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":991.2,"endTime":994.32,"body":"relationship off of where the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":994.32,"endTime":998.22,"body":"two of you don't think that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":994.32,"endTime":998.22,"body":"every little comment is"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":998.22,"endTime":1002.15,"body":"adversarial, then you can you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":998.22,"endTime":1002.15,"body":"can work with that relationship"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1002.15,"endTime":1005.6,"body":"differently than you can with"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1002.15,"endTime":1005.6,"body":"someone who you don't have any"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1005.6,"endTime":1008.93,"body":"of that background. And so how"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1005.6,"endTime":1008.93,"body":"do you kind of quickly tried to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1008.93,"endTime":1012.23,"body":"develop those reports? What are"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1008.93,"endTime":1012.23,"body":"the things you can do to quickly"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1012.71,"endTime":1016.16,"body":"get more engagement with the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1012.71,"endTime":1016.16,"body":"people who you don't know as"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1016.16,"endTime":1019.7,"body":"well. And then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1016.16,"endTime":1019.7,"body":"whether anything, and so I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1019.7,"endTime":1024.95,"body":"some of that is, is having"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1019.7,"endTime":1024.95,"body":"conversations long before we're"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1024.95,"endTime":1027.29,"body":"at the point of something"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1024.95,"endTime":1027.29,"body":"critical, having conversations"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1027.29,"endTime":1031.52,"body":"just about life, about what"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1027.29,"endTime":1031.52,"body":"people like to do about why"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1031.52,"endTime":1034.34,"body":"they're passionate about"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1031.52,"endTime":1034.34,"body":"whatever their domain is on the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1034.34,"endTime":1037.7,"body":"project, right? Understanding"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1034.34,"endTime":1037.7,"body":"some of those things,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1037.7,"endTime":1041.63,"body":"understanding, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1037.7,"endTime":1041.63,"body":"drives those people, what makes"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1041.63,"endTime":1047.42,"body":"them makes them engaged in the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1041.63,"endTime":1047.42,"body":"work they're doing. But their"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1047.42,"endTime":1049.97,"body":"passions are, you know, having"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1047.42,"endTime":1049.97,"body":"those conversations can be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1049.97,"endTime":1053.66,"body":"really, really helpful. Because"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1049.97,"endTime":1053.66,"body":"I think it helps us to, when we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1053.66,"endTime":1059.0,"body":"get into some of those tougher"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1053.66,"endTime":1059.0,"body":"situations, to interpret things"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1059.0,"endTime":1063.59,"body":"that are said differently, we"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1059.0,"endTime":1063.59,"body":"don't automatically assume that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1063.59,"endTime":1069.05,"body":"the person is being defensive. I"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1063.59,"endTime":1069.05,"body":"think it's also good if you do"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1069.05,"endTime":1074.0,"body":"have some people on the project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1069.05,"endTime":1074.0,"body":"to know you well, to enroll them"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1074.39,"endTime":1080.24,"body":"in that effort. If you can say"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1074.39,"endTime":1080.24,"body":"to people, hey, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1080.24,"endTime":1084.86,"body":"and I get along really, really"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1080.24,"endTime":1084.86,"body":"well. There's these three people"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1084.86,"endTime":1087.41,"body":"on the project that I don't know"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1084.86,"endTime":1087.41,"body":"all that well, yet. I'm working"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1087.41,"endTime":1091.79,"body":"on it. If you see anything,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1087.41,"endTime":1091.79,"body":"where I'm not relating to them,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1091.79,"endTime":1095.3,"body":"Well, I'm doing whatever"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1091.79,"endTime":1095.3,"body":"mentioned. Right? Like, don't"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1095.3,"endTime":1098.21,"body":"let me don't let me go too far."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1095.3,"endTime":1098.21,"body":"And certain things don't let me"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1098.21,"endTime":1102.65,"body":"make those mistakes. If you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1098.21,"endTime":1102.65,"body":"notice them, give, give your"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1102.65,"endTime":1109.82,"body":"allies a chance and an opening"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1102.65,"endTime":1109.82,"body":"to help you manage through some"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1109.82,"endTime":1110.51,"body":"of those things."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1111.17,"endTime":1114.89,"body":"I really like that, I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1111.17,"endTime":1114.89,"body":"think, you know, we, we talked"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1114.92,"endTime":1120.92,"body":"about a strong relationship"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1114.92,"endTime":1120.92,"body":"being made up of trust. value,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1121.01,"endTime":1124.61,"body":"we share values, we value each"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1121.01,"endTime":1124.61,"body":"other, and a level of dialogue."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1124.88,"endTime":1128.42,"body":"I think often we shortchange the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1124.88,"endTime":1128.42,"body":"dialogue, because we're busy. So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1128.42,"endTime":1132.56,"body":"we dash off a quick email or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1128.42,"endTime":1132.56,"body":"Slack message or text or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1132.56,"endTime":1138.29,"body":"whatever, as opposed to having"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1132.56,"endTime":1138.29,"body":"engaging in dialogue. But trust"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1138.5,"endTime":1143.81,"body":"implies a level of"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1138.5,"endTime":1143.81,"body":"vulnerability. And you're right,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1143.81,"endTime":1147.2,"body":"when we have teammates or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1143.81,"endTime":1147.2,"body":"project members who we don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1147.2,"endTime":1152.96,"body":"know all that, well. It's very"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1147.2,"endTime":1152.96,"body":"easy to think we understand"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1152.96,"endTime":1155.36,"body":"what's going through. And I"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1152.96,"endTime":1155.36,"body":"think we do have a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1155.36,"endTime":1161.33,"body":"predisposition to to put maybe"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1155.36,"endTime":1161.33,"body":"words in other people's mouths,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1161.42,"endTime":1163.37,"body":"they're not here use of I think"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1161.42,"endTime":1163.37,"body":"they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1164.74,"endTime":1168.61,"body":"I there's a question that many"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1164.74,"endTime":1168.61,"body":"years ago, somebody asked me and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1168.61,"endTime":1173.83,"body":"I've taken that to heart and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1168.61,"endTime":1173.83,"body":"that is what is it that you know"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1173.83,"endTime":1179.17,"body":"about me, that I don't appear to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1173.83,"endTime":1179.17,"body":"know about? And we all have that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1179.74,"endTime":1185.92,"body":"blind spot, right? Where, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1179.74,"endTime":1185.92,"body":"know, you might find that you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1185.92,"endTime":1191.23,"body":"know, somebody tends to bark a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1185.92,"endTime":1191.23,"body":"little bit when they talk that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1191.23,"endTime":1198.28,"body":"they don't hear themselves talk"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1191.23,"endTime":1198.28,"body":"that way. In a new comer is John"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1198.28,"endTime":1204.31,"body":"Maxwell calls this lovely story."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1198.28,"endTime":1204.31,"body":"About a executive secretary, who"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1204.31,"endTime":1208.24,"body":"had two mugs on her desk, one"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1204.31,"endTime":1208.24,"body":"was a green mug and one was a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1208.24,"endTime":1211.24,"body":"red mug. And when she was"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1208.24,"endTime":1211.24,"body":"drinking out of the red mug, it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1211.24,"endTime":1214.09,"body":"told everybody that today's not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1211.24,"endTime":1214.09,"body":"a good day to approach"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1214.81,"endTime":1220.24,"body":"executive, the green mug, good"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1214.81,"endTime":1220.24,"body":"day, right? indicators to kind"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1220.24,"endTime":1223.6,"body":"of say, Hey, this is the mood."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1220.24,"endTime":1223.6,"body":"Now I'm sure that executive"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1223.6,"endTime":1225.76,"body":"never knew she had knows, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1223.6,"endTime":1225.76,"body":"probably would have been"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1225.82,"endTime":1229.54,"body":"mortified to discover that. But"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1225.82,"endTime":1229.54,"body":"they figured out how to have"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1229.54,"endTime":1232.54,"body":"good days, that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1229.54,"endTime":1232.54,"body":"So again, it's a question of,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1232.57,"endTime":1234.73,"body":"you know, what do you know about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1232.57,"endTime":1234.73,"body":"me? Well, I know that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1234.73,"endTime":1239.35,"body":"when you when you upset, you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1234.73,"endTime":1239.35,"body":"tend to look for scapegoats. So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1239.35,"endTime":1243.88,"body":"you tend, okay, so how do I calm"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1239.35,"endTime":1243.88,"body":"me down? I certainly know. You"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1243.88,"endTime":1247.15,"body":"know, I remember early days"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1243.88,"endTime":1247.15,"body":"project where one of the guy"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1247.15,"endTime":1249.79,"body":"said to me one day, you must be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1247.15,"endTime":1249.79,"body":"hungry, let's get you a donut."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1250.84,"endTime":1256.42,"body":"And I realized, it's because my"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1250.84,"endTime":1256.42,"body":"reaction, maybe I was. My"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1256.42,"endTime":1261.73,"body":"reaction was one way, he said,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1256.42,"endTime":1261.73,"body":"This is not the normal view. So"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1261.73,"endTime":1264.85,"body":"again, when we come back to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1261.73,"endTime":1264.85,"body":"retention, the more vulnerable"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1264.85,"endTime":1270.85,"body":"we can be, the more open the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1264.85,"endTime":1270.85,"body":"more we can allow that we to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1270.85,"endTime":1276.52,"body":"struggle with things, the more"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1270.85,"endTime":1276.52,"body":"people are likely to open up to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1276.52,"endTime":1279.16,"body":"us as well. Because one of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1276.52,"endTime":1279.16,"body":"things when we you know, we want"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1279.16,"endTime":1281.74,"body":"to ultimately solve that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1279.16,"endTime":1281.74,"body":"bottleneck, whatever it is, and"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1281.74,"endTime":1288.64,"body":"we want to keep the project. But"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1281.74,"endTime":1288.64,"body":"we don't want to do it in a way"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1288.64,"endTime":1291.82,"body":"that gets people on the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1288.64,"endTime":1291.82,"body":"defensive, whether they're just"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1291.82,"endTime":1293.77,"body":"doing it or if they have to do"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1291.82,"endTime":1293.77,"body":"it. And the minute there's an"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1293.77,"endTime":1297.13,"body":"opportunity not to they're going"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1293.77,"endTime":1297.13,"body":"to leave or whatever, you want"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1297.13,"endTime":1301.06,"body":"to do it in a way that says, We"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1297.13,"endTime":1301.06,"body":"all struggling with stuff, I'd"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1301.06,"endTime":1305.95,"body":"rather you come to me, before it"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1301.06,"endTime":1305.95,"body":"gets comes to a head before"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1305.95,"endTime":1309.13,"body":"we're really at a problem level."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1305.95,"endTime":1309.13,"body":"I've built enough trust that you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1309.13,"endTime":1312.85,"body":"can come to me as challenges are"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1309.13,"endTime":1312.85,"body":"occurring. So we can be solving"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1312.85,"endTime":1316.24,"body":"them together. Or in some cases,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1312.85,"endTime":1316.24,"body":"you know, and it's not a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1316.24,"endTime":1319.84,"body":"question of reporting in it's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1316.24,"endTime":1319.84,"body":"more a question of benefiting"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1319.84,"endTime":1323.89,"body":"from the resources of the key"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1319.84,"endTime":1323.89,"body":"Yes, where that's where that's"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1323.89,"endTime":1327.13,"body":"possible. But you have to create"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1323.89,"endTime":1327.13,"body":"the environment that allows that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1327.13,"endTime":1327.61,"body":"to happen."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1327.88,"endTime":1330.25,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1327.88,"endTime":1330.25,"body":"Absolutely. And I think you need"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1330.25,"endTime":1333.46,"body":"to be, you know, you need to be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1330.25,"endTime":1333.46,"body":"seen to be an ally, you need to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1333.46,"endTime":1337.18,"body":"be seen to be open and honest."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1333.46,"endTime":1337.18,"body":"You need to be seen to be, you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1337.18,"endTime":1341.83,"body":"know, not someone who's going to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1337.18,"endTime":1341.83,"body":"use any of that feedback or"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1341.83,"endTime":1345.97,"body":"information in a negative way,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1341.83,"endTime":1345.97,"body":"right? I mean, if you, you burn"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1345.97,"endTime":1348.43,"body":"one bridge, and suddenly it"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1345.97,"endTime":1348.43,"body":"becomes really hard to build"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1348.43,"endTime":1352.51,"body":"more. So I think you're"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1348.43,"endTime":1352.51,"body":"absolutely right with that. And,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1352.51,"endTime":1357.52,"body":"you know, a lot of it comes down"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1352.51,"endTime":1357.52,"body":"to being willing to try and"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1357.52,"endTime":1363.4,"body":"know, the people you're working,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1357.52,"endTime":1363.4,"body":"right, know how they do. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1363.4,"endTime":1366.13,"body":"I'm sure you've had, I've had"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1363.4,"endTime":1366.13,"body":"colleagues, I'm sure you've had"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1366.13,"endTime":1370.87,"body":"colleagues where you just know"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1366.13,"endTime":1370.87,"body":"that the very first time you"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1370.87,"endTime":1373.84,"body":"bring something to that person,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1370.87,"endTime":1373.84,"body":"what you're gonna get is all the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1373.84,"endTime":1377.08,"body":"reasons why that can't work."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1373.84,"endTime":1377.08,"body":"Right, that's, that's the first"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1377.08,"endTime":1380.02,"body":"thing that happens. And I've had"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1377.08,"endTime":1380.02,"body":"colleagues where that's true."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1380.62,"endTime":1386.44,"body":"And you let them do that. And"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1380.62,"endTime":1386.44,"body":"then tomorrow, they come to see"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1386.44,"endTime":1390.46,"body":"you with the solution to the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1386.44,"endTime":1390.46,"body":"problem. Okay. But they needed"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1390.46,"endTime":1392.83,"body":"to get through that first. Plus,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1390.46,"endTime":1392.83,"body":"that's how their thought process"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1392.83,"endTime":1396.58,"body":"works. They're not trying to be"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1392.83,"endTime":1396.58,"body":"negative, they're there, the way"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1396.58,"endTime":1400.93,"body":"they get to a positive solution"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1396.58,"endTime":1400.93,"body":"is by first, Claire clearing,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1400.96,"endTime":1405.4,"body":"clarifying what all the problems"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1400.96,"endTime":1405.4,"body":"are. And once they've got the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1405.4,"endTime":1408.13,"body":"list of problems, and they've"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1405.4,"endTime":1408.13,"body":"got it all open, and they know"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1408.13,"endTime":1410.32,"body":"it's all there, then they're"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1408.13,"endTime":1410.32,"body":"able to kind of work those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1410.32,"endTime":1413.95,"body":"things through and come up with"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1410.32,"endTime":1413.95,"body":"the solution. If you react to"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1413.95,"endTime":1419.44,"body":"the first without leaving time"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1413.95,"endTime":1419.44,"body":"for the second, then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1419.44,"endTime":1422.74,"body":"that doesn't work. And so part"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1419.44,"endTime":1422.74,"body":"of that is getting to know those"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1422.74,"endTime":1424.93,"body":"people and getting to understand"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1422.74,"endTime":1424.93,"body":"a little bit about how they"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1424.93,"endTime":1429.19,"body":"react, why they react the way"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1424.93,"endTime":1429.19,"body":"they do. How do you not take the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1429.19,"endTime":1431.35,"body":"first reaction of everything"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1429.19,"endTime":1431.35,"body":"person?"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1432.2,"endTime":1435.86,"body":"I think that's a that's a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1432.2,"endTime":1435.86,"body":"great place to kind of wrap this"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1435.86,"endTime":1438.98,"body":"up. Because it brings us back to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1435.86,"endTime":1438.98,"body":"one of your earlier comments,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1439.13,"endTime":1444.14,"body":"which is really, it's not about"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1439.13,"endTime":1444.14,"body":"you, it's about them. So if you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1444.14,"endTime":1447.23,"body":"notice individually, who you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1444.14,"endTime":1447.23,"body":"just use as an example, they"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1447.23,"endTime":1450.86,"body":"need that processing time, but"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1447.23,"endTime":1450.86,"body":"they got to get that spewed out"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1450.86,"endTime":1452.69,"body":"first you got to say all the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1450.86,"endTime":1452.69,"body":"reasons it's not want to work"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1453.26,"endTime":1458.84,"body":"that boat making it about them."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1453.26,"endTime":1458.84,"body":"And I think that is the key"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1459.05,"endTime":1463.88,"body":"ultimately to that. Part of the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1459.05,"endTime":1463.88,"body":"key to the whole retention issue"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1464.24,"endTime":1468.95,"body":"is when people feel invisible"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1464.24,"endTime":1468.95,"body":"when people feel not respected"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1468.98,"endTime":1474.74,"body":"or even disrespect. When people"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1468.98,"endTime":1474.74,"body":"people feel that their input is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1474.77,"endTime":1480.47,"body":"valued, for there is no value in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1474.77,"endTime":1480.47,"body":"that value relationship. When"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1480.47,"endTime":1484.55,"body":"they feel that way. They don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1480.47,"endTime":1484.55,"body":"stick around. And I mean a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1484.55,"endTime":1488.21,"body":"better offer comes or greater"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1484.55,"endTime":1488.21,"body":"opportunity comes they're gone."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1488.96,"endTime":1494.36,"body":"On the other hand, there's a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1488.96,"endTime":1494.36,"body":"huge attachment we have when we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1494.36,"endTime":1498.26,"body":"feel wanted when we feel needed"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1494.36,"endTime":1498.26,"body":"when we feel respected when we"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1498.26,"endTime":1503.48,"body":"feel valued. And that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1498.26,"endTime":1503.48,"body":"happen. If it's all about the"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1503.48,"endTime":1509.84,"body":"bar. Yes. So, you know, to wrap"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1503.48,"endTime":1509.84,"body":"up, I think a key message for"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1510.02,"endTime":1514.4,"body":"podcast listeners today is"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1510.02,"endTime":1514.4,"body":"really practicing to put"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1514.4,"endTime":1518.54,"body":"yourself second, put yourself in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1514.4,"endTime":1518.54,"body":"that kind of subordinate role,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1518.6,"endTime":1522.56,"body":"so that the other person gets a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1518.6,"endTime":1522.56,"body":"chance to shine gets a chance to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1522.56,"endTime":1527.99,"body":"express themselves. Without you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1522.56,"endTime":1527.99,"body":"jumping in now, I will tell you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1527.99,"endTime":1532.88,"body":"honestly, that's not an easy"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1527.99,"endTime":1532.88,"body":"thing to do not at all. It means"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1532.88,"endTime":1536.78,"body":"constantly checking ourselves."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1532.88,"endTime":1536.78,"body":"And one of the ways that I found"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1536.78,"endTime":1540.59,"body":"over the years to do that is to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1536.78,"endTime":1540.59,"body":"be open enough to say, when you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1540.59,"endTime":1543.14,"body":"see me so that question asked"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1540.59,"endTime":1543.14,"body":"earlier around, what is it you"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1543.14,"endTime":1546.92,"body":"know about me that I don't see,"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1543.14,"endTime":1546.92,"body":"when you see me exhibiting that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1546.92,"endTime":1553.46,"body":"blind spot? Let's agree on a"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1546.92,"endTime":1553.46,"body":"code of Hue some little way"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1553.52,"endTime":1555.74,"body":"without embarrassing me in front"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1553.52,"endTime":1555.74,"body":"of a team or a group or"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1555.74,"endTime":1558.68,"body":"whatever, that you remind me"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1555.74,"endTime":1558.68,"body":"that I'm falling into that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1558.68,"endTime":1563.03,"body":"behavior again. And when we can"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1558.68,"endTime":1563.03,"body":"do that, that creates that"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1563.03,"endTime":1565.79,"body":"respect that says, hey, I want"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1563.03,"endTime":1565.79,"body":"to get better. But it's not"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1565.79,"endTime":1571.13,"body":"easy. It's a little bit like"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1565.79,"endTime":1571.13,"body":"saying, I'm all the time don't"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1571.13,"endTime":1575.48,"body":"even do it anymore. Until"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1571.13,"endTime":1575.48,"body":"somebody says, That was 22. I'm"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1576.62,"endTime":1580.82,"body":"really. So it's the same thing"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1576.62,"endTime":1580.82,"body":"for our how are we relating to"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1580.82,"endTime":1585.59,"body":"our individual contributors in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1580.82,"endTime":1585.59,"body":"that sense? And how we're"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1585.59,"endTime":1589.7,"body":"putting them first? I will tell"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1585.59,"endTime":1589.7,"body":"you that that flies in the face"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1589.7,"endTime":1593.27,"body":"of a lot of hierarchical"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1589.7,"endTime":1593.27,"body":"organizations, yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1593.93,"endTime":1599.54,"body":"But it gets results."},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1595.79,"endTime":1596.45,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1596.45,"endTime":1598.25,"body":"Dale any final thoughts?"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1598.25,"endTime":1601.577,"body":"Um, I just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1598.25,"endTime":1601.577,"body":"think I that, as those project"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1601.641,"endTime":1605.672,"body":"leads and project managers, we,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1601.641,"endTime":1605.672,"body":"you know, we have a greater set"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1605.736,"endTime":1609.831,"body":"of challenges in some ways than"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1605.736,"endTime":1609.831,"body":"than a managerial role. The time"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1609.895,"endTime":1613.542,"body":"is in strain, we don't get"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1609.895,"endTime":1613.542,"body":"opportunities for a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1613.606,"endTime":1617.062,"body":"other parts of it. So I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1613.606,"endTime":1617.062,"body":"it's just that much more"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1617.126,"endTime":1620.709,"body":"difficult. I certainly feel for"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1617.126,"endTime":1620.709,"body":"the level of work that's"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1620.773,"endTime":1624.484,"body":"required to do this on top of"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1620.773,"endTime":1624.484,"body":"everything else. But I think"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1624.548,"endTime":1628.579,"body":"that if, you know, ultimately,"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1624.548,"endTime":1628.579,"body":"the people on those projects are"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1628.643,"endTime":1632.61,"body":"the ones that make or break the"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1628.643,"endTime":1632.61,"body":"projects and investing in that"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1632.674,"endTime":1636.77,"body":"is really what's going to give"},{"speaker":"Dale","startTime":1632.674,"endTime":1636.77,"body":"you the success in the long term."},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1636.77,"endTime":1640.87,"body":"Totally agree. So in"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1636.77,"endTime":1640.87,"body":"wrapping up, thanks for being"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1640.952,"endTime":1645.955,"body":"here. And thanks to Ela, our"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1640.952,"endTime":1645.955,"body":"engineer today. And for everyone"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1646.037,"endTime":1650.794,"body":"out there. practice focusing on"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1646.037,"endTime":1650.794,"body":"the other person, practice"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1650.876,"endTime":1655.879,"body":"putting yourself second and we'd"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1650.876,"endTime":1655.879,"body":"love your comments as to how"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1655.961,"endTime":1661.209,"body":"that worked for you. Thanks, be"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1655.961,"endTime":1661.209,"body":"safe out there and enjoy leading"},{"speaker":"Rod","startTime":1661.291,"endTime":1662.03,"body":"projects."}]}