Retaining Project People

Rod and Dale are back for season 2 of Messy but Essential!

This week, join our duo as they discuss retaining people throughout a project, celebrating wins, and the importance of fun. 

Transcript

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Welcome to messy but essential. I'm Rod Stilwell. And this is the podcast about the people side of project leadership. It's where we help you improve your soft skills to reduce hard costs. into today's episode, we're going to be talking about the importance of keeping hanging on to people throughout the duration of a project or for the period that they're critical for. And it's a pretty important topic these days, because we're coming out of a pandemic, hopefully. And we're seeing the labor market shift fairly dramatically. With me in studio today is my brother Dale, Hey Rod who's not only my business partner, but also my one of my best friends for sure. And has extensive project experience around the world. And LSR, engineer and producer today. Good to have you with us, Ela, every now and then we might look over and she's going to give us some signals to tell us we're going long or speed it up. So there let's talk about what is it that keeps people working on a project? And, of course, the converse of that is, what are some of the factors that get them to leave or no longer want to be part of that project? Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of them are probably similar to why people leave organizations at all, or why people change jobs or change, you know, want to move on from something. So I think you get you get some of those, but you probably got unique challenges in there as well. And, you know, I think it's also there's a natural, rolling off of projects, especially long projects, right? I mean, a two year project, it's rare that you keep all of the same people on that project from start to end. There's some natural points at which it doesn't make sense to have certain resources around anymore, and that kind of stuff. But the big challenge is ensuring that they stay as long as you need them to stay, I think, yeah, for sure. I mean, the the finite nature of a project. Of course, many of us have worked on projects that never seem to end. Yeah, even though they ostensibly have an endpoint. But I mean, assuming that there is some level of an end point, I think it becomes a bit of a double edged sword. So the fact that there's an end point, if you're getting kind of itchy feet, and wondering whether you should go if you can see that endpoint, maybe hang on a little longer than let's say that the the more corporate role, if you wish, where it's you're leaving the business, and kind of when's a good time to do that. On the other hand, as you say, there can be times within that life of that project, where that phase is significantly less interesting, or doesn't seem to be moving at the same pace that you might like it to move. Or, of course, in the project world, there's a more exciting dance to be at, there's a more exciting project to be working on. And that's especially difficult when you know, you are a full time project worker, who is maybe moving from project to project in your expertise, maybe in greater demand here there. So I think there are some differences. And that's what I Yeah. want to look at today. Because ultimately, we, you know, we want to keep great people around. And we in some cases, of course, are happy when certain people leave our businesses or projects or whatever. But I do think there's a bit of a difference. And, you know, the current labor market, coming out of COVID is going to struggle. You know, in some countries, Canada and United States are predicting labor shortages, at all levels, for the next 15 years until 2036. That's a fairly significant chunk, if you look at it, which means that project leaders are going to have to work even harder to make sure that they retain those key individuals. Yeah. So so then I mean the answer to your question, then one of those elements, which, you know, we kind of talked to when you started to talk to you is, is the work itself, right? How fulfilled do I feel in the work had the purpose? Do I feel that we still have a sense of purpose, because that can be a problem with a long project is that the sense of purpose starts to get muddy as delays happen, and things don't aren't working the way they are? I don't do I feel valued? Which are all the similar challenges to why we stay with organizations? Right, but but I think there's particular things in projects that are part of that. And I think projects, as you said, Suffer. In addition to that from the fact that well, if skills are in demand, even within the same organization, it's easy to get. Find someone else who has a more interesting project that We'd like you on it and get shifted to that. And you don't have the burden of having to actually leave a company. Right? Right You've got this, it's a much easier transition to move from one project to another than it is to quit a job and go or you know, find a new job and quit a job. So I think you've got that, you know, the same challenges of do I feel valued? Do I have a sense of purpose? Do I know that what we're trying to accomplish is worth accomplishing those same types of things that I value in a job, but with an easier ability to move? If I'm Mm hmm. So it's interesting. We we spent, you know, in Project not happy? world, we've spent a lot of time especially when it comes to alignment and so on looking at what is this project accomplishing? What's its contribution to the world, and we do know, if you look at Daniel Pink's works, talking about the importance of mastery, autonomy, and that sense of purpose, feeling like, you're part of something bigger than you. Interestingly, a lot of the psychology of today around that engagement motivation is also around or even more so around, are we having fun yet? That the the kind of corporate speak or the, you know, Project Lead speak is look at the bigger purpose, but the individual is saying, I'm okay with you a bigger purpose. But am I having any fun, and if there's anything that 18 to 20 months or whatever, have lockdowns and shut, you know, and shut in, and those types of things have taught us, it's that we can pay attention to our own needs differently, you know, pre COVID, you went to work every day went to the project every day, you did whatever, oh, sudden, COVID comes, we're stuck at home. And we discover that, wow, we can also be getting caught up on some things at home and those types of things. So you've got all these other competing factors now, but it come but it continues to come down to are we enjoying this? No, we actually having fun because you can put up with any anything for a little while. And maybe in that sense, projects have an advantage, because that little while maybe you're fine. And Alright, versus getting the kind of tech company corporate job sort of thing. So So let's step back then to say, how do you have fun on a project? I mean, what does that look like? If you're a project leader? How do you help your team have fun? I mean, is it a ping pong tables and, and beer and pizza on Friday afternoon? Or is it actually something else? I mean, I think I've, you know, I think atmosphere can be one thing. But I don't think that's really what's going to win everybody's hearts and minds. You know, I mean, I think that more sets a tone, maybe that can be sort of something that says, hey, you know, we have a license to have fun, right? So you're kind of you're, you're you're saying that, that you're allowing that. But I don't think that's really what does it as much as how the people you work with view, the work, right, how the people you work for view the work, right? So if as a project manager, you're saying, you know, we want to be having fun while we do this, right? We want to be enjoying our work. But it's all about deadlines, and you know, constantly worrying people about time and asking people to stay late to catch up on schedule and all the rest of that type of stuff. You know, I don't you know, you're not pinball tables, not gonna change anything. Right. That I think that's a really valid point in the sense that creating those expectations, even understanding what fun means to some people versus others. I mean, I don't think there's a universal definition of fun at work now. But it does come down to the climate we set Yes. as project managers, to the you know, I mean, obviously, if you're in there's nothing wrong with being scheduled. Budget driven, obviously, it means scope. We that's part of the project. But it's how that comes across. Yes. Is that the you know, we get together for a quick you know, stand up meeting to say here's where our focus is today. And we don't spend any time thinking about the people side because ultimately fun is with people Yeah, is with the team fun is with our our teammates. But creating that environment. When you know you as a project manager, you may have a whole bunch of people above you that are in You know, screaming at you and all over you to produce the results? How do you filter that out? In order to focus on the team? And I think you do need to filter it, because I think you know, so for the most part, especially on technical projects, technical people love challenges, right? For the most part, they don't, they're not. They don't generally like the wrote of a job. That's not what motivates them what they find fun, often, that's the challenge of something new, it's the, we have to solve this. So the fact that there are challenges on projects is not going to kill the fun, in and of itself, right. But when you're constantly being pushed on constraints that you don't feel are yours, or that you don't feel are your fault. So if we're behind schedule, and it has nothing to do with me, then for that to become my crisis, once is, is fine, I can rise. But if that's the constant way everything is it's always in crisis mode, because of things that are beyond our control. Well, that's no longer fun, right, those challenges that I'm rising to no longer feel like fun challenges, you know, they feel like artificial challenges, you know, so. So I think part of the project manager's job, unfortunately, is to shield the team from some of those other pressures. Right, right, to not make some of those other business priorities, the team's problem. In the same way, obviously, the team, you know, the project manager can't solve any of those things on their own, the team still has to step up and do that, for sure. But they have to find a way to, you know, present that to the team in such a way that it doesn't feel the motivating that it doesn't feel as though you're killing the the atmosphere that that you know, and so I think that's a real challenge for the project manager. I would concur. I think that is one of our major challenges. When we add to that the the necessity to help people feel important feel valued. You touched talked about that earlier that that sense of recognition. We even though it's very technical, I mean, Fun isn't just being silly with, you know, balloons and stream. Absolutely. We have a lot of fun doing the technical part of our jobs. So I think one of the ways that we help people to have fun, is creating that inclusive environment where it's appropriate. Yeah, that doesn't mean inviting everybody to every meeting, because then that just becomes overwhelming. But it does mean no, that we have an opportunity to to recognize people to ensure that the at the right place at the right time, so that they are part of the process of arriving at a decision, whether that's do we change a milestone? Do we change whatever it might be? So that that sense that I'm important to this team, I'm important to this project. And we can have some, some fun dialoguing, and we're talking about the different ways in which we can solve X problem. So I think a large part of that fun is feeling that you are part of the team. Yep. That you're not just this isolated specialist who has a job to do. But again, back to that part of something a little bigger. And that. So I think we've you know, we've all probably seen in movies, that scene where you know, whether it's a space launch, or whether it's some other engineering of some, you know, some project group that has some enormous challenge ahead of them. And they hit a milestone and it works. They solve the problem. It's, it's a stressful situation. But they all come together, they managed to do it. And then there's that big cheering in the room when it works and everything else. Right. That's fun. Right? That's project fun. Yes. Is it stressful? Sure. Is it difficult? Sure. Are they Is it challenging? Sure. But that doesn't mean it's not fun. But But I think part of that is, you know, as you talked about milestones, right? Do you celebrate a milestone? Or do they just flow into the next thing? Do you provide opportunities for people to as a team, for everybody to share in the successes, right to really feel as though we've successfully crossed the hurdle? So I think there's some of those things that you can set up as a project manager. And I think, you know, we come back to this an awful lot. I think, in our conversations around this part of it is, is about being intentional, in terms of what you're doing because this for the majority of people, this isn't just going to happen by accident. There are people who seem to have an intuitive feel for some of these things don't really realize they're doing But just do. And that's great if you're one of those people, lucky you. But if you're not one of those people, you need to look at some of these things as part of your objectives as a project manager. Absolutely. Right and treat them just as if you treat anything else on a project plan. You know, did we celebrate this milestone? Well, and if you think of it, we spend most of our early lives celebrating milestones, yes, is whether that's birthdays, end of term or semester in school, you know, we get to report card, all those things, we celebrate good grades we, we have first time you were able to ride your bike the first time you you swam in the you know you in the pool, the first whatever accomplishments, whatever, right? And then we move into this business world project world work world, where we often just as you say, let one milestone whether they're a formal milestone or not, just gradually move into the next one, I kind of look at it like walking towards the horizon, you'll just never get there. Hmm. So I mean, with that in mind, one of the things that that we want to, you know, make sure within a project is that we have identified some of those key deliverables, milestones, that we take a moment to celebrate them. But there's another side that I think is critical in terms of retaining key talent. And that is revisiting occasionally, what we've done really well, that, you know, because it's so easy to get focused on what's to do, what we haven't finished, what we, what hasn't been going well, et cetera. And it seems at times as though I mean, just have to read any newspaper, what percentage of it is good news versus, you know, this disaster in this crisis, etc, etc. So we tend to be focused often on that within the project world, and forget to revisit why we're here why we're having fun doing this, why this is important for each of us and, and what we have accomplished. And I think that's an ability to sit down with the team and say, Okay, let's just have a look at where the last months been, what are some of the great things we've done? You know, what are we feeling really good about? And just puck that that's there? You know, I mean, I, I've got clients who've had literally achievement walls, where you can, you know, each of these great milestones is they're up on a wall in perpetual. And every time you walk by to go grab a coffee, you can see that timeline and feel really good about it. Sure. That's, that's a conscious effort to create that environment that says, we actually are making progress. And having fun doing it. Yep. And recency bias is is hard for that, right? Because we we don't tend to see the big picture, we tend to focus on just what's happened most recently, or what's coming up. And so you can be on a project that's 80% of the way through that the first 80% was an absolute roaring success. And you're struggling with that last 20%. And it feels like the project's failing. Right? Yeah. So and that's, that's clearly not true. But that that sense of that is easy to get into. And it's easy to get bogged down in that as a team and all the rest of that. So somebody has to have the job of making sure that we don't do that, that we break those cycles, that we we feel like we've accomplished stuff. And because the sense of having accomplished, you know, when you look at something, you go, Okay, we've got this 20% Challenge left. And you say to yourself, yes, but we've already done four of those. We've already solved four of problems of similar magnitude to get here, that last problem doesn't seem nearly as insurmountable anymore, right? Because everything's relative. And that's exactly, but it's easy to forget in the moment. So I think that's part of your project manager's job to celebrate those and ensure that there's pauses, there's time to celebrate, we can revisit those things. And sometimes, the best time to do that is when all of a sudden things get challenging, and we're all rushing headlong, and we you know, sometimes that's the perfect time to say timeout. Let's get together. Let's talk about, you know, we'll talk somewhat about the challenge. But let's talk about putting the challenge in context of the overall picture. I think that's a that's an excellent idea. It's, it is really one of those soft skills, it's that ability to size up the current environment situation and so on and be able to do, you know, to call that time out, in order to celebrate recognize, feel really good about what what we know we can do, and then how do we move that same appreciation to now what's left to do what's in front of me? This is really, you know, it's a really important topic and we've we've kind of I scratched the surface of how do we hold on to people. And I think we'll probably do another couple of podcasts. Because I would submit that for projects and business in general, over the next decade, it is going to be in the top three preoccupations hanging on to the people who we need, and who we want to have on board to do the jobs when everyone else out there wants them to do I really appreciate your insights today. Thank you. And I've had fun. Yeah. A lot of fun. Yeah, absolutely. No, sometimes we have to ask each other. Thanks, Ela, for engineering this today. And to the rest of you out there leading projects or being part of projects. Look for ways to have fun, look for ways to celebrate that and ask each other. Are we having fun? And if the answer is no, dedicate yourself to look into ways to do that. One of the ways to have fun is to be safe. So we hope that you have a safe project, fun project, and we look forward to you joining us next time