{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":0.76,"endTime":3.846,"body":"Welcome back to the Focus B show."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":3.95,"endTime":8.582,"body":"This is Katie Stoddart here, aka the Focus B."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":8.718,"endTime":14.838,"body":"And on this show I interview high performers"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":8.718,"endTime":14.838,"body":"and leaders around the world to discover their"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":14.886,"endTime":20.814,"body":"secrets on peak performance, productivity,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":14.886,"endTime":20.814,"body":"mindfulness and leadership."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":20.934,"endTime":26.638,"body":"So if you want to take your performance and"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":20.934,"endTime":26.638,"body":"your leadership to the next level, then you're"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":26.686,"endTime":28.314,"body":"in the right place."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":28.614,"endTime":31.784,"body":"Listen up and and connect with the magic."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":36.924,"endTime":40.348,"body":"It is such a joy to be here with Grace"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":36.924,"endTime":40.348,"body":"Marshall."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":40.476,"endTime":46.5,"body":"Grace is a productivity ninja coach, keynote"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":40.476,"endTime":46.5,"body":"speaker and award winning author."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":46.652,"endTime":53.044,"body":"She wrote the books how to be really"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":46.652,"endTime":53.044,"body":"productive, struggle and 21 ways to manage the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":53.084,"endTime":55.332,"body":"stuff that sucks up your time."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":55.468,"endTime":58.012,"body":"Her advice on productivity has been featured"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":58.068,"endTime":61.504,"body":"amongst others in the Guardian, Forbes and"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":58.068,"endTime":61.504,"body":"CNN."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":61.834,"endTime":64.482,"body":"Such a joy to be with Grace Marshall."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":64.618,"endTime":66.538,"body":"Grace, fantastic to have you here today."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":66.586,"endTime":68.29,"body":"Thank you so much for joining the show."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":68.442,"endTime":69.97,"body":"Delighted to be here, Katie."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":70.122,"endTime":71.338,"body":"So excited about this."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":71.386,"endTime":74.186,"body":"From one productivity enthusiast to another."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":74.37,"endTime":79.122,"body":"And today I want to really look into one of"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":74.37,"endTime":79.122,"body":"the topics that you wrote a book about,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":79.298,"endTime":79.93,"body":"struggle."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":80.002,"endTime":82.514,"body":"I think it's amazing that you thought about"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":82.554,"endTime":84.906,"body":"this, reflected and wrote a book on it."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":85.05,"endTime":86.194,"body":"Why struggle?"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":86.234,"endTime":90.41,"body":"Why did you begin by observing and writing and"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":86.234,"endTime":90.41,"body":"thinking about struggle?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":90.602,"endTime":94.266,"body":"It felt like the conversation that"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":90.602,"endTime":94.266,"body":"people were having in their heads but not"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":94.29,"endTime":95.934,"body":"having out in the open."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":96.354,"endTime":99.41,"body":"So what I noticed was a lot of my coaching"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":99.442,"endTime":104.778,"body":"clients were coming to me after implementing a"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":99.442,"endTime":104.778,"body":"lot of the productivity advice that we both"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":104.826,"endTime":107.194,"body":"work with, and they were coming back."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":107.274,"endTime":108.41,"body":"I've got that."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":108.602,"endTime":110.162,"body":"I've got my inbox under control."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":110.258,"endTime":111.986,"body":"I've got my to do list."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":112.01,"endTime":113.146,"body":"It's working well for me."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":113.25,"endTime":114.574,"body":"I'm still struggling."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":114.954,"endTime":116.45,"body":"What's wrong?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":114.954,"endTime":116.45,"body":"What's wrong with me?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":116.482,"endTime":117.574,"body":"That's what they were saying."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":118.624,"endTime":120.408,"body":"I started delving into this because I thought"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":120.456,"endTime":123.044,"body":"if it keeps coming up, there's something"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":120.456,"endTime":123.044,"body":"curious happening here."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":123.384,"endTime":128.456,"body":"And what I noticed once I dived into some of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":123.384,"endTime":128.456,"body":"those conversations a little bit deeper was"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":128.48,"endTime":132.592,"body":"that we tend to have this thing where we think"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":128.48,"endTime":132.592,"body":"of struggle as almost being the opposite of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":132.608,"endTime":133.488,"body":"productivity."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":133.656,"endTime":136.376,"body":"So it's like I've gone wrong, I'm struggling,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":136.44,"endTime":138.2,"body":"therefore something wrong is happening."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":138.232,"endTime":140.256,"body":"Either I'm in the wrong place or maybe there's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":140.28,"endTime":141.484,"body":"something wrong with me."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":141.904,"endTime":144.2,"body":"But actually, the more that I dived into these"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":144.232,"endTime":149.286,"body":"conversations, the more that I realized it"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":144.232,"endTime":149.286,"body":"might not be the place that we'd plan to be."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":149.47,"endTime":155.726,"body":"But there's often, in fact, maybe even always"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":149.47,"endTime":155.726,"body":"something useful we can use out of this."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":155.91,"endTime":158.782,"body":"And actually, if we're willing to pay"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":155.91,"endTime":158.782,"body":"attention to the thing that we're struggling"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":158.838,"endTime":164.15,"body":"with, we can sometimes find that it's almost"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":158.838,"endTime":164.15,"body":"the birthplace of some of our best work."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":164.182,"endTime":168.374,"body":"It's where we come up with our most surprising"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":164.182,"endTime":168.374,"body":"ideas, our innovations."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":168.534,"endTime":171.474,"body":"It's where we improve our processes or improve"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":168.534,"endTime":171.474,"body":"ourselves."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":172.134,"endTime":177.282,"body":"And often, like I said, they're not the places"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":172.134,"endTime":177.282,"body":"that we choose, but if we can choose to pay"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":177.298,"endTime":180.114,"body":"attention to it, we can actually get a lot out"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":177.298,"endTime":180.114,"body":"of it."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":180.234,"endTime":184.282,"body":"Interesting, this idea that we think"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":180.234,"endTime":184.282,"body":"that struggle is the opposite of productive."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":184.418,"endTime":190.85,"body":"And I've thought that sometimes in some ways,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":184.418,"endTime":190.85,"body":"in the sense that if you're struggling on"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":190.922,"endTime":195.498,"body":"something, maybe emotionally, that you're not"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":190.922,"endTime":195.498,"body":"processing, and then you choose to be"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":195.546,"endTime":200.058,"body":"distracted and scroll LinkedIn and do little"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":195.546,"endTime":200.058,"body":"things here and there, maybe be on the phone,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":200.106,"endTime":202.656,"body":"whatever it is, then it is counterproductive."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":202.72,"endTime":204.96,"body":"On the other hand, I found that if in those"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":204.992,"endTime":209.128,"body":"moments I think, okay, brain dump, brainstorm,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":204.992,"endTime":209.128,"body":"let me write things out."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":209.176,"endTime":212.736,"body":"What are possible options?"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":209.176,"endTime":212.736,"body":"Or if it's some sort of high emotional"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":212.8,"endTime":218.904,"body":"distress, then take fully a break of a day or"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":212.8,"endTime":218.904,"body":"more, then they can be very productive."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":218.944,"endTime":224.336,"body":"So have you come also to a similar conclusion,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":218.944,"endTime":224.336,"body":"which is that is how we process and deal with"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":224.36,"endTime":228.314,"body":"the struggle, rather than the struggle itself"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":224.36,"endTime":228.314,"body":"that defines if it's productive or not."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":228.424,"endTime":232.422,"body":"Exactly. So I talk about struggle is"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":228.424,"endTime":232.422,"body":"almost when we hit struggle, we feel like"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":232.438,"endTime":235.358,"body":"we're in a tunnel, and when we're in a tunnel,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":232.438,"endTime":235.358,"body":"we get tunnel vision."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":235.486,"endTime":238.23,"body":"So we get fixated on finding the exits."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":238.422,"endTime":240.238,"body":"So that's where the distractions come in."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":240.246,"endTime":241.854,"body":"It's like this doesn't feel productive."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":241.894,"endTime":242.702,"body":"Oh, you know what?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":242.718,"endTime":247.646,"body":"I'm going to go check emails and feel like I'm"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":242.718,"endTime":247.646,"body":"doing something over there, that kind of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":247.67,"endTime":248.238,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":248.406,"endTime":250.91,"body":"But it's also where procrastination might come"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":250.942,"endTime":251.206,"body":"from."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":251.27,"endTime":252.614,"body":"It's like, this is too hard."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":252.694,"endTime":256.154,"body":"I'm going to go back the way I came, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":252.694,"endTime":256.154,"body":"to avoid dealing with this."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":256.334,"endTime":261.834,"body":"Or we get onto that sort of hustle mentality"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":256.334,"endTime":261.834,"body":"of like, I just need to work my way through"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":261.874,"endTime":262.314,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":262.434,"endTime":265.226,"body":"And so that's where we can end up fighting"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":265.29,"endTime":266.134,"body":"harder."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":266.514,"endTime":268.402,"body":"So it's not that we're avoiding the struggle,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":268.498,"endTime":273.694,"body":"but we're treating the struggle as a battle to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":268.498,"endTime":273.694,"body":"fight, as like an obstacle to overcome."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":274.114,"endTime":278.842,"body":"And one of the things I talk about in struggle"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":274.114,"endTime":278.842,"body":"is what if instead of looking for a light at"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":278.858,"endTime":282.934,"body":"the end of the tunnel, we shine a light in the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":278.858,"endTime":282.934,"body":"middle of the tunnel instead?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":283.354,"endTime":288.49,"body":"Because maybe there's work to be done here and"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":283.354,"endTime":288.49,"body":"by doing that, we can start to pay attention."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":288.562,"endTime":292.014,"body":"What am I actually dealing with here?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":288.562,"endTime":292.014,"body":"So why does this feel hard?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":293.354,"endTime":295.074,"body":"Maybe it's because I haven't done it before."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":295.194,"endTime":296.13,"body":"Maybe it's just hard."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":296.162,"endTime":297.094,"body":"It's not wrong."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":297.434,"endTime":300.626,"body":"And even knowing that means I don't need to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":300.65,"endTime":304.514,"body":"look for something else to make me feel more"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":300.65,"endTime":304.514,"body":"productive, actually, this is the work."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":304.674,"endTime":306.498,"body":"This isn't the thing that's getting in the way"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":304.674,"endTime":306.498,"body":"of my work."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":306.546,"endTime":308.868,"body":"This is the work I need to pay attention here."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":309.066,"endTime":311.176,"body":"Other times, it might be, okay, this thing"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":311.2,"endTime":312.044,"body":"isn't working."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":312.344,"endTime":314.064,"body":"There's an obstacle, there's a disruption,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":314.104,"endTime":315.184,"body":"there's a setback."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":315.344,"endTime":317.208,"body":"It's not going as I planned."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":317.376,"endTime":321.536,"body":"Now, if we're in that fight or flight"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":317.376,"endTime":321.536,"body":"mentality, it'd be just, how do I get rid of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":321.56,"endTime":326.232,"body":"this and get back on track?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":321.56,"endTime":326.232,"body":"But if we start to look at it with maybe"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":326.288,"endTime":330.672,"body":"curiosity, we can start to go, okay, what's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":326.288,"endTime":330.672,"body":"going on here?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":330.808,"endTime":336.248,"body":"Why has this not gone as we'd thought?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":330.808,"endTime":336.248,"body":"And I think it was Matthew said in black box"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":336.296,"endTime":340.78,"body":"thinking, who talks about sort of failure"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":336.296,"endTime":340.78,"body":"being a deviation from the."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":340.852,"endTime":341.724,"body":"From the norm."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":341.844,"endTime":343.824,"body":"And any deviation is interesting."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":344.684,"endTime":349.212,"body":"So if you think of scientists here, if they"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":344.684,"endTime":349.212,"body":"run experiments in a lab, it's when the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":349.228,"endTime":352.824,"body":"deviations happen that you go, oh, okay,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":349.228,"endTime":352.824,"body":"something interesting is happening now."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":353.284,"endTime":358.108,"body":"And so what if we were able to take that same"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":353.284,"endTime":358.108,"body":"approach to our work to go, okay, that's a"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":358.116,"endTime":358.984,"body":"deviation."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":359.644,"endTime":360.724,"body":"Things are not going to go."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":360.764,"endTime":364.784,"body":"If I've got everything planned and I want it"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":360.764,"endTime":364.784,"body":"all running like clockwork and efficient,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":365.134,"endTime":367.246,"body":"obviously that's going to derail the plan."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":367.43,"endTime":369.766,"body":"But if I go, oh, that's interesting, what's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":369.79,"endTime":373.006,"body":"going on here?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":369.79,"endTime":373.006,"body":"We might find that that's the place of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":373.03,"endTime":377.926,"body":"innovation, that's the place where we can"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":373.03,"endTime":377.926,"body":"improve, where we can grow, where we can just"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":377.95,"endTime":381.302,"body":"come up with something completely new that"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":377.95,"endTime":381.302,"body":"wouldn't have been there if everything was"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":381.398,"endTime":382.474,"body":"smooth sailing."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":383.094,"endTime":385.278,"body":"This is all music to my ears."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":385.326,"endTime":386.886,"body":"I think it's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":387.07,"endTime":393.056,"body":"I love what you said about how we can either"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":387.07,"endTime":393.056,"body":"sort of procrastinate or we go into hustle"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":393.12,"endTime":393.744,"body":"hard mode."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":393.784,"endTime":395.944,"body":"And I literally had a day like that yesterday."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":396.024,"endTime":401.12,"body":"I almost never do this because I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":396.024,"endTime":401.12,"body":"work in a way that I believe is focused and"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":401.152,"endTime":401.648,"body":"productive."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":401.696,"endTime":403.816,"body":"And I take breaks and I take my lunch walk,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":403.92,"endTime":409.976,"body":"but I was in that sort of full on hustle fast"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":403.92,"endTime":409.976,"body":"mode while writing about the importance of the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":410.0,"endTime":412.68,"body":"old trading rhythm breaks."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":412.752,"endTime":415.992,"body":"So I did take still a lunch break and a bit of"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":416.008,"endTime":416.68,"body":"an afternoon break."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":416.712,"endTime":418.728,"body":"I still did a bit, but I was in more hustle"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":418.776,"endTime":419.924,"body":"mode than usual."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":420.324,"endTime":422.468,"body":"So I think maybe the question here would be"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":422.556,"endTime":428.372,"body":"for people listening and thinking, yes, okay,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":422.556,"endTime":428.372,"body":"I either procrastinate or I go to full on"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":428.388,"endTime":429.324,"body":"hustle mode."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":429.444,"endTime":431.604,"body":"I need to shine the light in the tunnel."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":431.644,"endTime":438.036,"body":"But sometimes because of cortisol rush,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":431.644,"endTime":438.036,"body":"adrenaline, maybe a big project or a deadline"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":438.14,"endTime":441.3,"body":"or some sort of emotional distress."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":441.492,"endTime":444.716,"body":"It's like sometimes even the knowledge I have"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":444.74,"endTime":448.036,"body":"the knowledge and I didn't manage yesterday"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":444.74,"endTime":448.036,"body":"isn't sufficient."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":448.1,"endTime":456.78,"body":"So how can we remember and have the discipline"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":448.1,"endTime":456.78,"body":"to implement this in moments where maybe the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":456.812,"endTime":459.384,"body":"stakes are high or the pressure is very high?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":459.964,"endTime":465.236,"body":"Absolutely. So there's something I"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":459.964,"endTime":465.236,"body":"write and talk about with struggle, and I call"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":465.26,"endTime":467.224,"body":"it the three ships."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":467.884,"endTime":472.004,"body":"So you may know the tagline first for struggle"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":472.044,"endTime":475.39,"body":"is a surprising truth, beauty, and opportunity"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":472.044,"endTime":475.39,"body":"hidden in lives."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":475.542,"endTime":479.486,"body":"I'm going to say shiftier moments, but it's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":475.542,"endTime":479.486,"body":"because I'm not going to swear on your"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":479.51,"endTime":482.63,"body":"podcast, but you could kind of decide what"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":479.51,"endTime":482.63,"body":"that other word is."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":482.702,"endTime":487.994,"body":"So I talk about the three shifts, or you can"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":482.702,"endTime":487.994,"body":"be much more direct with your language."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":488.654,"endTime":490.954,"body":"But the first of that is o shift."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":491.414,"endTime":493.262,"body":"It's just going, oh, shift."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":493.358,"endTime":494.63,"body":"Something's happened."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":494.822,"endTime":496.154,"body":"Something's gone wrong."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":496.814,"endTime":498.642,"body":"Something's unexpected."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":498.838,"endTime":501.37,"body":"And that recognition, I think, is really"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":501.402,"endTime":505.682,"body":"important, because what we sometimes do is"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":501.402,"endTime":505.682,"body":"something's happened."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":505.698,"endTime":506.714,"body":"We need to find a problem."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":506.834,"endTime":507.594,"body":"Sorry, there's a problem."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":507.634,"endTime":508.802,"body":"We need to find a solution."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":508.938,"endTime":511.654,"body":"We jump straight into solution finding mode,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":512.394,"endTime":514.042,"body":"and that's where we end up going."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":514.178,"endTime":515.754,"body":"Either that hustle or the procrastination,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":515.834,"endTime":518.454,"body":"because that feels like a good solution at the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":515.834,"endTime":518.454,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":518.994,"endTime":523.442,"body":"Whereas if we start with the recognition"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":518.994,"endTime":523.442,"body":"first, what we can do is actually just"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":523.498,"endTime":526.068,"body":"recognize, okay, something's happened."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":526.266,"endTime":528.664,"body":"What is my go to response with that?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":528.824,"endTime":531.784,"body":"Is it the procrastination?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":528.824,"endTime":531.784,"body":"Is it the hustle?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":531.824,"endTime":535.896,"body":"Harder?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":531.824,"endTime":535.896,"body":"And actually, both of those are two sides of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":535.96,"endTime":536.944,"body":"the same coin."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":537.104,"endTime":539.56,"body":"It's basically a fear response."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":539.592,"endTime":542.496,"body":"So I call this high functioning fear because"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":539.592,"endTime":542.496,"body":"it doesn't always look like fear."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":542.52,"endTime":544.084,"body":"It doesn't look like I'm scared."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":544.424,"endTime":546.384,"body":"It can feel really productive."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":546.424,"endTime":547.928,"body":"It can look high performing."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":548.056,"endTime":549.168,"body":"Somebody could be like you."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":549.216,"endTime":553.92,"body":"If someone was a fly on the wall watching you"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":549.216,"endTime":553.92,"body":"yesterday, they'd be like, whoa, she's getting"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":553.952,"endTime":555.208,"body":"a lot done there."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":555.376,"endTime":558.484,"body":"And so it can look really high functioning."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":558.944,"endTime":563.976,"body":"But actually, if we're honest with ourselves,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":558.944,"endTime":563.976,"body":"what's probably driving whatever that action"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":564.04,"endTime":565.592,"body":"is, is fear."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":565.768,"endTime":567.872,"body":"And so if you think about it from an"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":567.888,"endTime":573.272,"body":"evolutionary perspective, fear is designed to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":567.888,"endTime":573.272,"body":"remove the danger."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":573.368,"endTime":577.284,"body":"It's designed to get us away from the danger"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":573.368,"endTime":577.284,"body":"and bring us back to safety."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":577.664,"endTime":581.05,"body":"And so fight is about what's a weak spot in my"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":577.664,"endTime":581.05,"body":"enemy."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":581.162,"endTime":586.402,"body":"How do I defeat this thing?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":581.162,"endTime":586.402,"body":"Flight is about how do I run away, make myself"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":586.458,"endTime":588.574,"body":"safe, and hide and escape."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":588.914,"endTime":590.762,"body":"And then you also have two others, so you've"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":590.778,"endTime":598.066,"body":"got freeze, which in nature would be, let me"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":590.778,"endTime":598.066,"body":"play dead, and then the danger will pass me"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":598.09,"endTime":598.654,"body":"by."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":599.154,"endTime":602.282,"body":"But actually in work, if you stay very still,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":602.418,"endTime":603.774,"body":"you get noticed."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":604.514,"endTime":607.082,"body":"The danger doesn't pass you by, so it's more"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":607.138,"endTime":609.814,"body":"likely to look like maybe busyness."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":610.134,"endTime":611.006,"body":"You know, I'm just gonna."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":611.03,"endTime":613.486,"body":"I'm too busy dealing with all this stuff over"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":611.03,"endTime":613.486,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":613.63,"endTime":618.174,"body":"I haven't got time to deal with that thing"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":613.63,"endTime":618.174,"body":"that feels like a struggle."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":618.334,"endTime":620.446,"body":"So freeze can look like there's a lot going"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":618.334,"endTime":620.446,"body":"on."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":620.47,"endTime":624.07,"body":"It can look like busyness, but it's that kind"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":620.47,"endTime":624.07,"body":"of almost stillness emotion."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":624.102,"endTime":627.594,"body":"I'm so busy, but actually, I'm just staying"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":624.102,"endTime":627.594,"body":"still with what's familiar."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":628.134,"endTime":633.926,"body":"And then the slightly lesser known response is"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":628.134,"endTime":633.926,"body":"the fawn response, which is basically, if you"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":633.95,"endTime":638.866,"body":"imagine an animal in the wild saying to its"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":633.95,"endTime":638.866,"body":"predator, please don't eat me, I'll be your"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":638.89,"endTime":639.454,"body":"friend."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":641.154,"endTime":642.882,"body":"That's the people pleasing side of it."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":642.898,"endTime":646.802,"body":"It's where we become overly accommodating,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":642.898,"endTime":646.802,"body":"where we say yes to everything and maybe no to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":646.818,"endTime":651.074,"body":"ourselves, or where we tell people what we"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":646.818,"endTime":651.074,"body":"think they want to hear instead of what we"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":651.114,"endTime":652.054,"body":"actually think."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":652.434,"endTime":655.69,"body":"And so it's really useful to recognize our go"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":655.722,"endTime":657.274,"body":"tos because we all have them."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":657.354,"endTime":658.634,"body":"And sometimes it's a combination."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":658.754,"endTime":660.594,"body":"Sometimes it depends on the context."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":660.754,"endTime":662.714,"body":"But when you can recognize yourself in fear"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":662.754,"endTime":667.854,"body":"mode, we can then choose if that action is"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":662.754,"endTime":667.854,"body":"serving us or not."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":668.394,"endTime":671.45,"body":"So, yes, you can hit deadlines in fight mode."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":671.602,"endTime":673.578,"body":"There's a good energy to hitting deadlines in"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":673.586,"endTime":680.434,"body":"fight mode, but maybe you can't have a really"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":673.586,"endTime":680.434,"body":"thoughtful conversation with someone where"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":680.474,"endTime":685.374,"body":"you're really listening because fight mode"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":680.474,"endTime":685.374,"body":"will put you on the defensive really easily."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":686.154,"endTime":690.698,"body":"Or you might be in fight mode, say, if you go"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":686.154,"endTime":690.698,"body":"into sales meeting in fight mode thinking, I"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":690.706,"endTime":695.626,"body":"need to win this client, that might stop you"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":690.706,"endTime":695.626,"body":"from actually being able to listen enough to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":695.65,"endTime":698.794,"body":"go, oh, that's not actually what they're"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":695.65,"endTime":698.794,"body":"asking for."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":698.874,"endTime":700.162,"body":"This is what they're asking for."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":700.218,"endTime":702.53,"body":"So maybe we can shift our conversation over"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":702.562,"endTime":703.018,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":703.146,"endTime":704.85,"body":"And so there's all sorts of different things"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":704.882,"endTime":708.97,"body":"that, well, fear basically stops us from doing"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":704.882,"endTime":708.97,"body":"because it gives us that narrow, narrow"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":709.002,"endTime":714.974,"body":"vision, whereas often with the kind of work"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":709.002,"endTime":714.974,"body":"that we need to do, we need a wider vision."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":715.434,"endTime":719.646,"body":"If you need to innovate, you need to be able"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":715.434,"endTime":719.646,"body":"to see lots of possibilities, not just who's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":719.67,"endTime":720.662,"body":"right, who's wrong."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":720.838,"endTime":723.79,"body":"If you're building relationships or"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":723.822,"endTime":728.934,"body":"collaborating or partnerships, any kind of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":723.822,"endTime":728.934,"body":"relationships, you need to be able to see"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":728.974,"endTime":733.394,"body":"multiple perspectives, and it's really hard to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":728.974,"endTime":733.394,"body":"do that if you're on the defensive."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":734.814,"endTime":739.726,"body":"So, yeah, that's a very long answer to your"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":734.814,"endTime":739.726,"body":"short question, which is, start with that"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":739.75,"endTime":740.182,"body":"recognition."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":740.238,"endTime":742.646,"body":"First, notice how your high functioning fear"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":742.67,"endTime":743.75,"body":"is kicking in."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":743.942,"endTime":747.356,"body":"And then step two would be to switch it for"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":747.42,"endTime":748.436,"body":"curiosity."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":748.62,"endTime":750.756,"body":"So curiosity is like the antidote to fear."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":750.78,"endTime":752.324,"body":"It's the alternative to fear."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":752.444,"endTime":753.868,"body":"So fear gives us that narrow vision."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":753.916,"endTime":755.984,"body":"Curiosity gives us a wider vision."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":756.324,"endTime":759.624,"body":"And so rather than who's right, who's wrong,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":760.164,"endTime":762.252,"body":"rather than what do I need to do to defeat"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":760.164,"endTime":762.252,"body":"this?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":762.308,"endTime":764.344,"body":"It's what's going on here."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":764.964,"endTime":767.596,"body":"This person who isn't responding how I"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":767.62,"endTime":773.65,"body":"expected them to, what's going on for them?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":767.62,"endTime":773.65,"body":"What's the need that's underlying that emotion"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":773.762,"endTime":776.214,"body":"or that response?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":773.762,"endTime":776.214,"body":"What's going on for me?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":776.994,"endTime":780.538,"body":"And the more that you can dial into that"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":776.994,"endTime":780.538,"body":"curiosity, the more that you can notice"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":780.586,"endTime":788.614,"body":"opportunities, notice areas for improvement,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":780.586,"endTime":788.614,"body":"but also places for connection rather than"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":788.954,"endTime":790.334,"body":"winning an argument."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":792.834,"endTime":794.334,"body":"Yes, I'm nodding along."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":794.714,"endTime":797.618,"body":"Okay, so we have the first phase, the second"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":797.666,"endTime":797.874,"body":"phase."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":797.914,"endTime":799.282,"body":"I'm still thinking about the third one."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":799.298,"endTime":804.26,"body":"But before we get to that, I only just learned"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":799.298,"endTime":804.26,"body":"the term born last week."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":804.292,"endTime":808.492,"body":"It's so funny how sometimes we learn something"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":804.292,"endTime":808.492,"body":"new and we hear about it four or five times"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":808.548,"endTime":810.492,"body":"afterwards and we'd never heard it before."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":810.628,"endTime":812.38,"body":"I was talking with a friend about the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":812.412,"endTime":817.94,"body":"parasympathetic nervous system that I didn't"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":812.412,"endTime":817.94,"body":"realize had these two aspects, one of them"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":817.972,"endTime":821.972,"body":"with the rest and digest, but then the other"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":817.972,"endTime":821.972,"body":"one was actually freeze and faun."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":822.028,"endTime":827.788,"body":"And so I always thought, as a person with a"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":822.028,"endTime":827.788,"body":"very high sympathetic mode or more often in"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":827.876,"endTime":834.162,"body":"the sympathetic side who've spend my life, or"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":827.876,"endTime":834.162,"body":"at least the last 510 years, meditating, being"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":834.218,"endTime":840.034,"body":"in nature, calming myself down to tap into the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":834.218,"endTime":840.034,"body":"parasympathetic nervous system, I thought,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":840.154,"endTime":840.658,"body":"that's it."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":840.706,"endTime":843.266,"body":"Parasympathetic nervous system balance for me,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":843.29,"endTime":843.658,"body":"at least."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":843.706,"endTime":846.554,"body":"But now I realize from talking with my friend"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":846.594,"endTime":848.506,"body":"that there's also this freeze and form."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":848.57,"endTime":852.226,"body":"So we have both great stuff in both sides."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":852.29,"endTime":856.066,"body":"The sympathetic nervous system is also where"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":852.29,"endTime":856.066,"body":"we take action or we move forward."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":856.17,"endTime":859.252,"body":"But if it's too much, can lead to flight or"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":856.17,"endTime":859.252,"body":"fight."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":859.388,"endTime":865.42,"body":"And then the parasympathetic rest, digest, we"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":859.388,"endTime":865.42,"body":"relax, but also if it's unbalanced, freeze and"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":865.452,"endTime":865.7,"body":"fawn."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":865.732,"endTime":867.596,"body":"So I thought that was interesting, that the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":867.62,"endTime":871.484,"body":"people pleasing side of thing is a high"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":867.62,"endTime":871.484,"body":"functioning type of fear."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":871.644,"endTime":873.196,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":873.34,"endTime":874.092,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":874.268,"endTime":875.9,"body":"So let's get onto that third phase."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":875.932,"endTime":879.212,"body":"So first phase is the o shift, and it's just"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":879.348,"endTime":882.252,"body":"realizing what is happening, having that"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":879.348,"endTime":882.252,"body":"awareness."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":882.308,"endTime":886.06,"body":"Then we get curious antidote to fear, love"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":882.308,"endTime":886.06,"body":"that it gets us out of our tunnel vision."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":886.092,"endTime":887.852,"body":"It sheds a light in the tunnel."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":887.948,"endTime":889.486,"body":"And what's the third phase?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":889.66,"endTime":891.534,"body":"The third phase is holy shift."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":892.114,"endTime":894.294,"body":"So it's a revelation."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":894.874,"endTime":897.174,"body":"It's what we discover out of that."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":897.754,"endTime":901.042,"body":"So if you go back to some of our familiar"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":901.098,"endTime":902.314,"body":"stories of innovation."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":902.394,"endTime":905.818,"body":"For example, the post it note."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":905.986,"endTime":910.554,"body":"The post it note was invented by Spencer"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":905.986,"endTime":910.554,"body":"Silver at three M, who was actually trying to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":910.594,"endTime":912.574,"body":"create a super strong adhesive."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":913.274,"endTime":914.938,"body":"So he was trying to create something for use"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":914.986,"endTime":916.53,"body":"in the aircraft construction industry."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":916.602,"endTime":918.506,"body":"And what he got instead was a super weak"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":918.57,"endTime":919.454,"body":"adhesive."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":919.634,"endTime":923.478,"body":"So you don't want your plane to hold and then"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":923.526,"endTime":924.91,"body":"unstick itself."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":925.062,"endTime":926.966,"body":"And so it was pretty useless for the kind of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":926.99,"endTime":929.23,"body":"purpose that he was, he was trying to go for."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":929.382,"endTime":932.494,"body":"But what came out of that, that weak adhesive"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":932.614,"endTime":935.434,"body":"eventually became the glue that went on to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":932.614,"endTime":935.434,"body":"post it notes."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":937.294,"endTime":942.446,"body":"Another example, there's a story I tell of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":937.294,"endTime":942.446,"body":"another person having a bad day who is"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":942.47,"endTime":946.748,"body":"basically ironing and accidentally rested that"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":942.47,"endTime":946.748,"body":"iron on a pencil."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":946.866,"endTime":952.872,"body":"The ink shot at the pen went all over the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":946.866,"endTime":952.872,"body":"ironing board, just ruining the clothes and"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":952.888,"endTime":954.404,"body":"making a huge mess everywhere."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":954.864,"endTime":957.136,"body":"And, yeah, so it's safe to say that person was"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":957.16,"endTime":963.164,"body":"having a bad day, but the person holding the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":957.16,"endTime":963.164,"body":"iron was also an engineer who worked at Canon."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":963.624,"endTime":969.0,"body":"And that ink that came out of the pen became"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":963.624,"endTime":969.0,"body":"the inspiration for Canon's first inkjet"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":969.032,"endTime":969.764,"body":"printer."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":970.784,"endTime":973.724,"body":"So, yeah, we often look at these stories,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":974.534,"endTime":977.734,"body":"innovation, and go, that's just genius."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":977.894,"endTime":980.278,"body":"And in hindsight, it does look like genius."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":980.446,"endTime":985.594,"body":"But I think it's useful to remember that in"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":980.446,"endTime":985.594,"body":"the moment, it feels a lot like frustration."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":986.094,"endTime":990.434,"body":"It feels like having a bad day, things are not"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":986.094,"endTime":990.434,"body":"going to plan, it feels like struggle."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":991.454,"endTime":997.11,"body":"And so when you recognize that, that means"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":991.454,"endTime":997.11,"body":"that when we hit struggle, we don't."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":997.262,"endTime":1001.802,"body":"It's not necessarily about making the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":997.262,"endTime":1001.802,"body":"frustration go away, it's recognize the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1001.818,"endTime":1002.522,"body":"struggle."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1002.698,"endTime":1005.73,"body":"But actually, if we're able to enable that"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1005.762,"endTime":1012.362,"body":"curiosity, activate that curiosity, what that"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1005.762,"endTime":1012.362,"body":"can then lead to is that holy shift moment."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1012.538,"endTime":1017.574,"body":"It's that opportunity, that innovation,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1012.538,"endTime":1017.574,"body":"whatever, in hindsight looks like genius."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1018.274,"endTime":1020.786,"body":"And it's not just with product innovation as"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1018.274,"endTime":1020.786,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1020.81,"endTime":1023.614,"body":"It can be with business growth."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1025.314,"endTime":1028.013,"body":"Quite often when you speak to entrepreneurs,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1028.053,"endTime":1033.493,"body":"I'm sure you've had similar stories where"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1028.053,"endTime":1033.493,"body":"sometimes it's our worst client or that"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1033.533,"endTime":1038.033,"body":"project that flopped, or that thing that just"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1033.533,"endTime":1038.033,"body":"felt like an absolute, utter failure."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1038.533,"endTime":1044.173,"body":"Or for a lot of people, actually, redundancy"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1038.533,"endTime":1044.173,"body":"is their first step into entrepreneurship."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1044.253,"endTime":1048.633,"body":"It's often those moments, those dips where you"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1044.253,"endTime":1048.633,"body":"just go, what the heck?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1050.733,"endTime":1056.006,"body":"But actually, out of those moments have come"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1050.733,"endTime":1056.006,"body":"surprising turn."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1056.15,"endTime":1060.034,"body":"And I think often those discoveries don't come"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1056.15,"endTime":1060.034,"body":"unless we're surprised."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1060.374,"endTime":1062.486,"body":"And that's one of the benefits of struggle."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1062.63,"endTime":1064.702,"body":"It's a deviation, it's a defiance of our"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1064.718,"endTime":1065.582,"body":"expectations."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1065.758,"endTime":1067.606,"body":"And so there's often something, some kind of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1067.63,"endTime":1070.398,"body":"discovery we can come from, that we can take"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1067.63,"endTime":1070.398,"body":"from that."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1070.566,"endTime":1077.158,"body":"And even in the corporate workplace, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1070.566,"endTime":1077.158,"body":"teams that I work with, often we find those"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1077.246,"endTime":1082.67,"body":"places of difficult conversations, so where"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1077.246,"endTime":1082.67,"body":"you need to give feedback that might not be"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1082.702,"endTime":1087.772,"body":"welcome or you've got a place of conflict or"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1082.702,"endTime":1087.772,"body":"disagree, disagreement, or even just a"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1087.788,"endTime":1089.744,"body":"mistake, somebody's made a mistake."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1090.364,"endTime":1093.98,"body":"How we deal with that mistake can either"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1094.052,"endTime":1098.064,"body":"create a fear environment or it can create a"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1094.052,"endTime":1098.064,"body":"curiosity environment."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1098.484,"endTime":1103.044,"body":"And if we create that curiosity environment,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1098.484,"endTime":1103.044,"body":"that's where we can find that those places can"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1103.084,"endTime":1107.476,"body":"be the building blocks of better processes and"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1103.084,"endTime":1107.476,"body":"better relationships."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1107.58,"endTime":1112.556,"body":"Often we find that teams who can handle those"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1107.58,"endTime":1112.556,"body":"moments of struggle well together, they can"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1112.58,"endTime":1117.306,"body":"actually build stronger relationships rather"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1112.58,"endTime":1117.306,"body":"than even stronger than when things are just"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1117.33,"endTime":1118.146,"body":"plain sailing."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1118.25,"endTime":1119.802,"body":"And same goes through for customer service as"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1119.818,"endTime":1119.946,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1119.97,"endTime":1121.594,"body":"If you can deal with a complaint really,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1121.634,"endTime":1126.546,"body":"really well, you can build much stronger brand"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1121.634,"endTime":1126.546,"body":"loyalty than if you'd have done everything"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1126.61,"endTime":1127.974,"body":"perfect to begin with."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1128.794,"endTime":1135.466,"body":"I'll never look at struggle again in"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1128.794,"endTime":1135.466,"body":"the same way because this is very different to"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1135.49,"endTime":1140.338,"body":"just saying, oh, learn from your failures,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1135.49,"endTime":1140.338,"body":"because that's true, and that is very"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1140.386,"endTime":1142.026,"body":"important and it's a really good point."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1142.09,"endTime":1144.042,"body":"And every time something doesn't work out,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1144.098,"endTime":1146.388,"body":"pausing and saying, okay, what is my lesson"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1144.098,"endTime":1146.388,"body":"here?"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1146.426,"endTime":1149.744,"body":"What can I learn from?"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1146.426,"endTime":1149.744,"body":"It is great, but sometimes I feel in some"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1149.784,"endTime":1155.232,"body":"moments of high intensity stress, just"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1149.784,"endTime":1155.232,"body":"thinking, oh, this will be a learning."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1155.368,"endTime":1156.724,"body":"It doesn't really work."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1157.904,"endTime":1160.84,"body":"It can work afterwards as a way of processing"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1160.872,"endTime":1161.52,"body":"what has happened."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1161.552,"endTime":1164.072,"body":"But on the moment, it can feel like struggle."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1164.128,"endTime":1167.896,"body":"It can feel hard and frustrating and"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1164.128,"endTime":1167.896,"body":"overwhelming."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1168.04,"endTime":1172.648,"body":"And so just saying, oh, there's a lesson here,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1168.04,"endTime":1172.648,"body":"doesn't always help."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1172.696,"endTime":1174.516,"body":"Sometimes it can, but not always."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1174.64,"endTime":1177.62,"body":"And I think if instead we remember, okay, but"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1177.772,"endTime":1180.58,"body":"I'm seeing struggle as sort of the enemy here,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1177.772,"endTime":1180.58,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1180.612,"endTime":1182.324,"body":"In some ways it's sort of the enemy."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1182.364,"endTime":1184.86,"body":"And our fear is telling us, you know, flee the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1184.892,"endTime":1189.628,"body":"enemy and find a solution instead of thinking,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1184.892,"endTime":1189.628,"body":"okay, this is just companion."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1189.756,"endTime":1194.652,"body":"It's neither good nor bad, but it can have"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1189.756,"endTime":1194.652,"body":"actually a really positive effect."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1194.708,"endTime":1199.564,"body":"And the example you were saying about people"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1194.708,"endTime":1199.564,"body":"starting their businesses after being made"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1199.604,"endTime":1206.774,"body":"redundant, or the ink at canon or the post it,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1199.604,"endTime":1206.774,"body":"those all show that this deviation from the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1206.814,"endTime":1214.518,"body":"norm can be if we choose for it to be or if we"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1206.814,"endTime":1214.518,"body":"see that it is an opportunity."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1214.566,"endTime":1219.742,"body":"Because I think retrospectively, there are a"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1214.566,"endTime":1219.742,"body":"lot of times in my business, obviously, and in"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1219.758,"endTime":1221.966,"body":"the people I coach that were very challenging."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1222.11,"endTime":1224.054,"body":"But when you see it afterwards, you think, oh,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1224.094,"endTime":1229.366,"body":"but that needed to happen, because then it was"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1224.094,"endTime":1229.366,"body":"during that time I learned whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1229.43,"endTime":1232.478,"body":"patience, resilience, how to market myself."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1232.566,"endTime":1234.062,"body":"I mean, you can name it, right, a million"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1234.118,"endTime":1234.806,"body":"different things."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1234.91,"endTime":1237.462,"body":"But on the moment it feels just like struggle."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1237.558,"endTime":1240.886,"body":"What would you, how would you define the word"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1237.558,"endTime":1240.886,"body":"struggle?"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1240.95,"endTime":1244.174,"body":"Or how would you, would you define it as an"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1240.95,"endTime":1244.174,"body":"emotional state?"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1244.254,"endTime":1246.594,"body":"What's your sort of definition of struggle?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1246.974,"endTime":1248.422,"body":"Oh, that's such a good question."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1248.478,"endTime":1250.174,"body":"I don't, I don't even think I've been asked"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1250.214,"endTime":1250.994,"body":"that before."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1253.334,"endTime":1255.954,"body":"So let's think."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1257.014,"endTime":1260.95,"body":"So I think picking up from what you said, we"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1257.014,"endTime":1260.95,"body":"see struggle as the enemy."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1260.982,"endTime":1265.198,"body":"So I think what struggle isn't is the enemy."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1265.246,"endTime":1266.678,"body":"It's not a battle."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1266.846,"endTime":1270.55,"body":"It's not a trap to avoid or an obstacle to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1266.846,"endTime":1270.55,"body":"overcome."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1270.662,"endTime":1275.39,"body":"And it's also not just a thing to endure,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1270.662,"endTime":1275.39,"body":"because I think a lot of that sort of hustle"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1275.422,"endTime":1278.982,"body":"culture just goes, well, of course you stuff's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1275.422,"endTime":1278.982,"body":"going to happen."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1279.038,"endTime":1280.254,"body":"Of course you're going to hit struggle."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1280.294,"endTime":1281.95,"body":"You just need to keep going and get through"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1281.982,"endTime":1282.504,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1282.654,"endTime":1285.464,"body":"And I say, but that's still missing the point."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1286.604,"endTime":1292.132,"body":"I think struggle, for me is it's the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1286.604,"endTime":1292.132,"body":"birthplace of some of our best work."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1292.268,"endTime":1294.144,"body":"It's the place where we grow."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1296.164,"endTime":1297.58,"body":"It's also the place."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1297.692,"endTime":1298.676,"body":"It's a community."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1298.86,"endTime":1301.316,"body":"It's a meeting place for community as well,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1301.5,"endTime":1307.796,"body":"because actually, when we are able to have"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1301.5,"endTime":1307.796,"body":"useful, open conversations about struggle with"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1307.82,"endTime":1311.91,"body":"each other, when you've got safe places to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1307.82,"endTime":1311.91,"body":"talk about struggle, that's when you can find"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1311.942,"endTime":1315.994,"body":"those discoveries, and that's when you can"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1311.942,"endTime":1315.994,"body":"grow collectively as well as individually."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1317.374,"endTime":1324.19,"body":"So how would I define struggle?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1317.374,"endTime":1324.19,"body":"I think it is, it's an unexpected circumstance"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1324.222,"endTime":1332.446,"body":"that we find ourselves in, and it can either"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1324.222,"endTime":1332.446,"body":"be the thing that we endure or it can be the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1332.47,"endTime":1337.074,"body":"thing that we explore and embrace and"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1332.47,"endTime":1337.074,"body":"discover."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1338.544,"endTime":1343.04,"body":"Nice, unexpected circumstance, nice."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1343.112,"endTime":1344.52,"body":"And entrepreneurship."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1344.552,"endTime":1346.36,"body":"But life in general, it's full of that."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1346.392,"endTime":1349.528,"body":"And I think part of the struggle, part of the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1349.656,"endTime":1354.256,"body":"challenge for many people is the fact that we"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1349.656,"endTime":1354.256,"body":"don't like uncertainty."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1354.36,"endTime":1362.512,"body":"And so I think a big struggle for many people"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1354.36,"endTime":1362.512,"body":"and companies in general is this uncertainty."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1362.568,"endTime":1363.944,"body":"And we saw it during the pandemic."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1364.024,"endTime":1365.778,"body":"We see it now in the age of AI."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1365.936,"endTime":1370.838,"body":"We see it all the time, this fear of"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1365.936,"endTime":1370.838,"body":"uncertainty, this not knowing what will"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1370.886,"endTime":1372.254,"body":"happen, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1372.414,"endTime":1375.326,"body":"How do you support people who are struggling"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1375.39,"endTime":1379.99,"body":"with uncertainty?"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1375.39,"endTime":1379.99,"body":"Because I would say that is a very common type"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1380.022,"endTime":1384.95,"body":"of struggle, whether it's business or the AI"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1380.022,"endTime":1384.95,"body":"or they're not sure about their career, or"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1384.982,"endTime":1388.102,"body":"maybe a company has just been bought and"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1384.982,"endTime":1388.102,"body":"there's a merge and they don't have their"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1388.118,"endTime":1389.486,"body":"position, they'll stay or not."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1389.59,"endTime":1392.602,"body":"All these types of situations, or let's say a"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1392.658,"endTime":1395.298,"body":"subcategory of struggle, there's specific type"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1392.658,"endTime":1395.298,"body":"of struggle."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1395.346,"endTime":1396.986,"body":"Call it uncertainty struggle."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1397.09,"endTime":1398.994,"body":"How do you support people with dealing with"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1399.034,"endTime":1400.454,"body":"that specific one."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1401.474,"endTime":1406.906,"body":"So one of the big things, one of the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1401.474,"endTime":1406.906,"body":"big reasons why we find uncertainty such a"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1406.93,"endTime":1410.334,"body":"struggle is because there's so much we don't"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1406.93,"endTime":1410.334,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1410.634,"endTime":1418.81,"body":"And we have historically, culturally,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1410.634,"endTime":1418.81,"body":"professionally equated knowing with"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1419.002,"endTime":1421.938,"body":"competence, expertise, professionalism."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1422.066,"endTime":1424.774,"body":"It's like people hire me for what I know."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1425.114,"endTime":1428.134,"body":"We follow leaders because we believe they know"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1425.114,"endTime":1428.134,"body":"where they're going."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1428.514,"endTime":1431.002,"body":"We follow teachers to teach us what they know."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1431.058,"endTime":1433.842,"body":"So knowing has become like, we talk about the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1433.858,"endTime":1438.29,"body":"knowledge economy as well, don't we?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1433.858,"endTime":1438.29,"body":"So it's become like the core of what's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1438.322,"endTime":1439.894,"body":"valuable at work."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1440.314,"endTime":1442.522,"body":"And that's why we find uncertainty so"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1442.658,"endTime":1446.084,"body":"difficult, because we're heading into"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1442.658,"endTime":1446.084,"body":"uncharted territory."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1446.164,"endTime":1448.344,"body":"We're heading into the place where we don't"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1446.164,"endTime":1448.344,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1448.724,"endTime":1455.324,"body":"And we find even just the words I don't know"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1448.724,"endTime":1455.324,"body":"can be such a struggle that if you find."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1455.484,"endTime":1460.004,"body":"So what we find is that you'll get a whole"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1455.484,"endTime":1460.004,"body":"load of people who go into imposter syndrome"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1460.164,"endTime":1461.46,"body":"to go, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1461.492,"endTime":1463.264,"body":"So therefore I'm in the wrong place."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1464.764,"endTime":1467.664,"body":"And so they back off from that uncertainty."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1468.204,"endTime":1469.878,"body":"That's your flight mode, basically."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1470.036,"endTime":1474.654,"body":"Your fight mode, on the other hand, is I have"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1470.036,"endTime":1474.654,"body":"to know, I know best."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1475.474,"endTime":1477.054,"body":"I have all the answers."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1478.074,"endTime":1480.082,"body":"And if they don't, they're going to make it up"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1480.178,"endTime":1483.85,"body":"and they're going to sound really confident"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1480.178,"endTime":1483.85,"body":"about it because they believe that's what"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1483.882,"endTime":1490.866,"body":"being a leader is all about, that actually, in"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1483.882,"endTime":1490.866,"body":"order to be respected as a leader, they have"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1490.89,"endTime":1494.33,"body":"to have the answers that they equate that to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1490.89,"endTime":1494.33,"body":"being a leader."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1494.482,"endTime":1495.37,"body":"I have to have the answers."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1495.402,"endTime":1496.636,"body":"And so they make it up."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1496.77,"endTime":1501.104,"body":"But what that means is that they're far less"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1496.77,"endTime":1501.104,"body":"likely to actually listen to the people"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1501.144,"endTime":1503.472,"body":"they're leading or to change their mind."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1503.528,"endTime":1506.008,"body":"When you get new information, what you go into"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1506.096,"endTime":1508.204,"body":"when you're dealing with change and"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1506.096,"endTime":1508.204,"body":"uncertainty."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1508.584,"endTime":1510.816,"body":"And so neither of those are very helpful."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1510.96,"endTime":1512.664,"body":"So I think one of the first things that's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1512.704,"endTime":1515.816,"body":"useful to do is to change our relationship"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1512.704,"endTime":1515.816,"body":"with those words."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1515.88,"endTime":1516.844,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1517.904,"endTime":1519.872,"body":"So rather than seeing it as a sign that we're"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1519.888,"endTime":1524.72,"body":"in the wrong place, if we think about it, if"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1519.888,"endTime":1524.72,"body":"you navigating new territory, you're"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1524.752,"endTime":1529.684,"body":"pioneering you a new thing, you're here to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1524.752,"endTime":1529.684,"body":"learn something new."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1530.504,"endTime":1533.044,"body":"Doesn't, I don't know, mean you're in the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1530.504,"endTime":1533.044,"body":"right place then?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1536.184,"endTime":1540.032,"body":"So rather than seeing it as a sign that you're"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1536.184,"endTime":1540.032,"body":"in the wrong place, actually, let's see it as"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1540.048,"endTime":1543.204,"body":"a sign that we're on the right track for"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1540.048,"endTime":1543.204,"body":"discovery."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1543.504,"endTime":1543.856,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1543.88,"endTime":1544.84,"body":"Where we're on the right track."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1544.872,"endTime":1546.528,"body":"So maybe it's not about having the answers."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1546.576,"endTime":1548.416,"body":"Maybe it's about asking the questions, what"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1548.44,"endTime":1551.848,"body":"are we here to find out?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1548.44,"endTime":1551.848,"body":"Rather than, I don't know when that's a"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1551.856,"endTime":1554.128,"body":"problem and all of that."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1554.176,"endTime":1556.576,"body":"Those are ways of moving from that fear space"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1556.68,"endTime":1558.084,"body":"to curiosity."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1559.184,"endTime":1561.736,"body":"Because when we can get curious about what's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1561.76,"endTime":1565.376,"body":"unknown and what's uncertain, we're then"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1561.76,"endTime":1565.376,"body":"priming ourselves for discovery, which is the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1565.4,"endTime":1567.048,"body":"whole point of being an uncertainty."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1567.096,"endTime":1568.472,"body":"It's like we're here to discover."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1568.568,"endTime":1570.128,"body":"We're here to build something new."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1570.256,"endTime":1573.464,"body":"We're here to find new territory and find out"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1573.544,"endTime":1576.48,"body":"what's this new place that we're dealing with"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1573.544,"endTime":1576.48,"body":"here and this new thing."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1576.592,"endTime":1583.458,"body":"And so that puts us in a position where we're"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1576.592,"endTime":1583.458,"body":"much more able to be open, to be curious, to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1583.546,"endTime":1590.186,"body":"innovate, to be empathetic as well, and to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1583.546,"endTime":1590.186,"body":"connect with people, which are all the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1590.21,"endTime":1591.05,"body":"qualities that we need."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1591.082,"endTime":1594.266,"body":"If we're navigating uncertainty rather than I"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1594.29,"endTime":1598.054,"body":"have to know or back off, I'm not qualified."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1599.274,"endTime":1603.894,"body":"So what I'm taking from most of what"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1599.274,"endTime":1603.894,"body":"we're talking about is if we're able to shift"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1604.234,"endTime":1606.106,"body":"from that fear or that."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1606.13,"endTime":1608.716,"body":"I don't know, or the uncertainty and the"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1608.74,"endTime":1613.46,"body":"overall struggle to a place of curiosity, then"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1608.74,"endTime":1613.46,"body":"we're halfway there, right?"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1613.492,"endTime":1615.228,"body":"Or then we're three quarters of the way there."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1615.276,"endTime":1620.028,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And that"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1615.276,"endTime":1620.028,"body":"curiosity will then, like, open doors to other"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1620.076,"endTime":1620.664,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1621.204,"endTime":1623.444,"body":"So in a difficult conversation, for example,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1623.524,"endTime":1625.544,"body":"curiosity will open the door to compassion."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1626.164,"endTime":1628.54,"body":"Because if you start getting curious about the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1628.572,"endTime":1631.852,"body":"person you're having this difficult"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1628.572,"endTime":1631.852,"body":"conversation with and going, what's going on"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1631.868,"endTime":1635.564,"body":"for them?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1631.868,"endTime":1635.564,"body":"Why would they write that email like that?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1635.724,"endTime":1640.346,"body":"You know, what would put someone in a position"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1635.724,"endTime":1640.346,"body":"where they thought that would be a good thing"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1640.37,"endTime":1644.066,"body":"to say, to get curious about the other person."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1644.25,"endTime":1645.922,"body":"That activates your compassion."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1646.018,"endTime":1653.482,"body":"It activates your empathy, and you're then"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1646.018,"endTime":1653.482,"body":"able to find some new common ground that you"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1653.498,"endTime":1660.114,"body":"can move forward from, rather than just be an"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1653.498,"endTime":1660.114,"body":"impasse where you're fighting a battle out of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1660.154,"endTime":1660.602,"body":"everything, of."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1660.618,"endTime":1666.41,"body":"What you shared today, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1660.618,"endTime":1666.41,"body":"such a different way of looking at struggle."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1666.482,"endTime":1670.57,"body":"And struggle can be applied to so many"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1666.482,"endTime":1670.57,"body":"different things, whether it's dealing with"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1670.602,"endTime":1677.13,"body":"uncertainty, feeling stuck somewhere,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1670.602,"endTime":1677.13,"body":"analysis, paralysis, perfectionism."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1677.242,"endTime":1679.298,"body":"We could have covered about a million things."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1679.426,"endTime":1680.226,"body":"Overwhelm."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1680.29,"endTime":1686.09,"body":"All of these can be forms of struggle, and all"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1680.29,"endTime":1686.09,"body":"of them can apply that method with the three"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1686.162,"endTime":1686.53,"body":"steps."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1686.562,"endTime":1691.35,"body":"First, pausing, awareness, curiosity, and then"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1691.422,"endTime":1694.914,"body":"actually moving forward from that place of"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1691.422,"endTime":1694.914,"body":"curiosity."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1695.734,"endTime":1697.63,"body":"What would you like to leave the audience"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1695.734,"endTime":1697.63,"body":"with?"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1697.662,"endTime":1700.406,"body":"I can't believe half an hour has come by like"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1697.662,"endTime":1700.406,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1700.59,"endTime":1704.194,"body":"What would be the last piece of advice for"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1700.59,"endTime":1704.194,"body":"people listening?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1705.774,"endTime":1707.394,"body":"I'd say take your time."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1708.094,"endTime":1712.454,"body":"Because that high functioning fear instinct is"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1712.494,"endTime":1717.086,"body":"part of a very, very well honed evolutionary"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1712.494,"endTime":1717.086,"body":"mechanism."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1717.27,"endTime":1719.638,"body":"You can't always prevent it from kicking in."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1719.726,"endTime":1721.464,"body":"It's designed to keep us alive."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1721.614,"endTime":1725.184,"body":"But the thing that's designed to keep us alive"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1721.614,"endTime":1725.184,"body":"can also keep us blind."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1725.484,"endTime":1731.356,"body":"And so if you are in a genuine situation of"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1725.484,"endTime":1731.356,"body":"life and death, thank your fight instincts or"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1731.38,"endTime":1733.948,"body":"flight instincts because they're going to get"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1731.38,"endTime":1733.948,"body":"you out of trouble."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1734.076,"endTime":1739.876,"body":"But if that is kicking in when you are in a"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1734.076,"endTime":1739.876,"body":"really important meeting or in front of a"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1739.9,"endTime":1744.596,"body":"customer or on stage, all of those things"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1739.9,"endTime":1744.596,"body":"where you're like, actually, I need my human"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1744.66,"endTime":1745.476,"body":"skills here."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1745.58,"endTime":1747.396,"body":"I don't need my fight and flight skills."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1747.42,"endTime":1748.246,"body":"I don't need my."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1748.34,"endTime":1749.538,"body":"I call it bear mode."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1749.626,"endTime":1753.61,"body":"Like, if a bear is chasing after you, like,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1749.626,"endTime":1753.61,"body":"you go into bear mode, I don't need that right"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1753.642,"endTime":1754.214,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1756.474,"endTime":1758.93,"body":"One of the biggest things that puts us into"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1758.962,"endTime":1762.162,"body":"fight and flight mode is stress."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1762.258,"endTime":1763.818,"body":"It's that time pressure."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1763.986,"endTime":1769.202,"body":"It's when we think that we need to react very"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1763.986,"endTime":1769.202,"body":"quickly, because that fight and flight mode is"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1769.218,"endTime":1770.334,"body":"like, I can do quick."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1771.754,"endTime":1774.122,"body":"I can do quick really, really quickly."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1774.218,"endTime":1778.638,"body":"And so sometimes it feels uncounter,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1774.218,"endTime":1778.638,"body":"intuitive."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1778.766,"endTime":1782.31,"body":"When there's a lot going on, when the pressure"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1778.766,"endTime":1782.31,"body":"is on and your deadlines are mounting up and"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1782.342,"endTime":1786.79,"body":"then you get a curveball, the last thing"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1782.342,"endTime":1786.79,"body":"you're going to feel like you want to do is to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1786.822,"endTime":1789.086,"body":"stop and to pause and to take your time."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1789.23,"endTime":1789.914,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1791.774,"endTime":1795.634,"body":"That's because all your instincts are telling"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1791.774,"endTime":1795.634,"body":"you this is a threat, do something."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1796.374,"endTime":1802.498,"body":"But if you notice that and catch it, you can"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1796.374,"endTime":1802.498,"body":"then go, okay, does that instinct actually"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1802.586,"endTime":1805.346,"body":"serve me here?"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1802.586,"endTime":1805.346,"body":"And there will be situations where the answer"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1805.37,"endTime":1807.614,"body":"is yes, which is great, go for it."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1808.074,"endTime":1811.17,"body":"But if the answer is no, or I'm not sure it"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1811.202,"endTime":1817.17,"body":"does, then that gives you the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1811.202,"endTime":1817.17,"body":"go, okay, I need to shift away from this high"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1817.202,"endTime":1821.854,"body":"functioning fear and then therefore, I need to"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1817.202,"endTime":1821.854,"body":"take time."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1822.914,"endTime":1827.802,"body":"And it's okay that this thing is screaming at"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1822.914,"endTime":1827.802,"body":"me, but it's not a life threatening, so it can"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1827.818,"endTime":1828.49,"body":"carry on screaming."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1828.522,"endTime":1829.042,"body":"It's fine."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1829.098,"endTime":1830.734,"body":"I don't need to react to it."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1832.594,"endTime":1835.642,"body":"And I'm deviating a little bit here now, but I"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1835.658,"endTime":1841.362,"body":"remember reading there was something on"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1835.658,"endTime":1841.362,"body":"Twitter, I still call it Twitter, but the"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1841.378,"endTime":1847.214,"body":"other day, which was, how do I tell my fight"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1841.378,"endTime":1847.214,"body":"and flight instinct that it's designed for"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1847.554,"endTime":1850.854,"body":"running away from a bear and not for dealing"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1847.554,"endTime":1850.854,"body":"with my emails."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1851.954,"endTime":1852.694,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1853.134,"endTime":1854.206,"body":"So, yeah, when we."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1854.27,"endTime":1855.902,"body":"When we can acknowledge and notice."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1855.958,"endTime":1857.766,"body":"Okay, email rage right here."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1857.83,"endTime":1859.734,"body":"Okay, step away from the computer."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1859.774,"endTime":1860.534,"body":"Do not press send."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1860.574,"endTime":1864.646,"body":"I'm not going to feel better afterwards,"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1860.574,"endTime":1864.646,"body":"create that pause, create that moment for"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1864.67,"endTime":1865.134,"body":"reflection."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1865.174,"endTime":1870.486,"body":"That can be an internal thing where there's"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1870.51,"endTime":1874.006,"body":"all sorts of things that we can do to help"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1870.51,"endTime":1874.006,"body":"calm our nervous system back down, like"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1874.03,"endTime":1875.47,"body":"physical things that we can do."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1875.622,"endTime":1878.102,"body":"It can also be a communal thing."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1878.158,"endTime":1883.804,"body":"So you, if you've got a good environment in"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1878.158,"endTime":1883.804,"body":"your team where you can have those struggle"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1883.844,"endTime":1887.86,"body":"conversations together or have tunnel"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1883.844,"endTime":1887.86,"body":"conversations together, it's like you can grab"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1887.892,"endTime":1890.94,"body":"someone and go, help me work through this."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1891.092,"endTime":1892.292,"body":"I'm in a tunnel."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1892.468,"endTime":1898.7,"body":"Just hit this struggle, help me shine a light"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1892.468,"endTime":1898.7,"body":"on this, and you can get someone to help talk"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1898.772,"endTime":1903.148,"body":"you through being curious about it rather than"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1898.772,"endTime":1903.148,"body":"trying to get you out of the tunnel."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1903.276,"endTime":1908.564,"body":"So these are all things that we can put in"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1903.276,"endTime":1908.564,"body":"place, but it all starts from actually giving"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1908.604,"endTime":1913.98,"body":"yourself time and telling yourself it's okay"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1908.604,"endTime":1913.98,"body":"to take that time to get those human skills"},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1914.012,"endTime":1914.744,"body":"back online."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1915.844,"endTime":1916.652,"body":"Beautiful."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1916.748,"endTime":1918.068,"body":"Thank you so much, Grace."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1918.116,"endTime":1922.62,"body":"I've gotten so much from today's episode and I"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1918.116,"endTime":1922.62,"body":"know the people listening will get just as"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1922.652,"endTime":1924.7,"body":"much, if not more, out of today's episode."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1924.772,"endTime":1926.636,"body":"Thank you so much for being on the show today."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1926.7,"endTime":1927.504,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Grace","startTime":1927.924,"endTime":1928.944,"body":"My pleasure."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1933.644,"endTime":1938.128,"body":"Thank you so much for tuning in today"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1933.644,"endTime":1938.128,"body":"to the focusbee show."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1938.296,"endTime":1943.36,"body":"I would absolutely love to hear your feedback,"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1938.296,"endTime":1943.36,"body":"so let me know in an."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1943.392,"endTime":1945.792,"body":"App or review or YouTube comment what."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1945.848,"endTime":1948.232,"body":"Was most valuable for you."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1948.368,"endTime":1951.016,"body":"And feel free to share this episode with a"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1951.04,"endTime":1953.184,"body":"friend or a family member."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1953.344,"endTime":1956.928,"body":"Wishing you a wonderful, magical and focused"},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1956.976,"endTime":1957.964,"body":"day ahead."},{"speaker":"Katie","startTime":1961.524,"endTime":1961.764,"body":"I."}]}