Given the large number of wearable sensors and fitness apps in the market, it begs the question: “what's good about them”? Are Americans more fit because of all these technologies that we wear around our wrists or throw in our pockets? MINDWORKS host Daniel Serfaty talks with Wishroute founder Jessica Lynch, Sparta Science CEO Dr. Phil Wagner, and Aptima’s Marine Corps fitness planner engineer Angelica Smith, to find out!
Given the large number of wearable sensors and fitness apps in the market, it begs the question: “what's good about them”? Are Americans more fit because of all these technologies that we wear around our wrists or throw in our pockets? MINDWORKS host Daniel Serfaty talks with Wishroute founder Jessica Lynch, Sparta Science CEO Dr. Phil Wagner, and Aptima’s Marine Corps fitness planner engineer Angelica Smith, to find out!
Daniel Serfaty: I believe that Phil, shared with us a little earlier the large number of wearable sensors and fitness apps in the market. What do you make of it in a sense that, what's good about them? What other limitations with mostly our people, is America more fit as a result of all these technologies that people wear around their wrist, around their arms, around their belts sometime, are people more fit as a result of the sensors? It's a big question. Do we know anything about that?
Phil Wagner: No.
Daniel Serfaty: No, they're not.
Phil Wagner: No question.
Daniel Serfaty: Why is that?
Phil Wagner: Well, if we look at, at least the areas that we primarily are rooted in, which is worse than military, musculoskeletal injuries are drastically higher. Mental health is also higher in terms of diagnoses or symptoms. So we've got a higher injury rate and a lower mental health functioning ability. And we've also got infinitely more technologies and data sources. So we have more data and more problems.
Jessica Lynch: Do we know why that is, Phil, do you have an understanding?
Phil Wagner: It's hard to say like, "Well, I know why." But my theory is that a lot of information, when it doesn't present insights, just causes more anxiety. And we've seen that with a group we met with in the air force, they said they stopped using a tracking sensor, a wearable company that's very, very prominent. They stopped using it because pilots were so obsessed about getting their sleep, it prevented them from getting sleep. So again, rather than just telling you, "You slept this amount, you need to sleep more." There needs to be, "Okay. You can only sleep this amount, here are some tactics that you need to do, or some other things un-sleeping related to help support and compensate for that lower level of sleep."
Jessica Lynch: That are achievable.
Phil Wagner: Yeah.
Jessica Lynch: Accessible and realistic, [crosstalk 00:44:50]. Yeah.
Phil Wagner: Totally. Totally. Because if you're, to Jess's point, they've got to be realistic. Otherwise, it actually has a net negative effect because if you're saying, "I slept six hours, you need eight to be optimal." You look at your schedule, you say, "I can't sleep better, so my life is sub-optimal." You're better off without it, that data.
Angelica Smith: It's interesting because the military, they're evaluating all of these sensor technologies. Why don't they have this data, why don't they have this understanding, why is there such a huge range of technologies they're evaluating? Have they not seen these effects? I'd just be interested in understanding the rationalization for doing so.
Daniel Serfaty: It's a general fallacy of the technology availability will cure the ills of society.
Phil Wagner: Absolutely. I mean, the analogy we use all the time is, it would be like someone's standing on a scale. And assuming that standing on that scale causes you to lose weight. It doesn't work that way, right?
Jessica Lynch: Information's power. It's important to know where you are to help form where you could go. But that's what's exciting of this next phase of being able to have enough data sources and points. And we have so many devices that are collecting these things around us but, did you start turning the lights lower before you went to bed? When's the last time you had caffeine? All these things can help us optimize on an individual basis of what's going to help them get better quality sleep within those six hours that they have. But right now, a lot of these apps are just recommending, "20 general things you can consider to get better quality sleep," and that's overwhelming and it can be detrimental, because it's like, "Oh, well, how do I even?" Or, "I'm not going to do anything." And then they're back to where they were.
Daniel Serfaty: I believe that is a general fallacy. By providing people access to all the information channel, all the news channel, just with a push of a button, doesn't make people more informed. There've been a lot of measurement about that actually that made people more frustrated as Phil say that they are not informed enough. If anything, will give people the illusion of being informed where actually they are not. And the same thing, I mean the data about the proliferation of diets, for example, and yet the obesity rate in America keeps growing. Why is that?
So it's really something to think about. And when you look at the collective solution that are represented by the three of you, fitness, nutrition, wellness, health, recovery from injury, where do you see the market is going right now? I mean, are we focusing primarily on physical fitness, on something more role, that has many component. Let's call that, wellness for now, both emotional, and mental, and physical. Can you make a prediction to see where the trend is going to be, where people are going to focus more in the future? Anyone want to pick up that dangerous question?
Angelica Smith: I think the focus is currently on the physical aspect of health, but I think we are embarking on the idea of total fitness. I see that it's very immature right now, but I do believe that's where the industry is headed maybe in another 10 years with prescriptive abilities. So that's my short response to where I think we are and where I think we're going.
Jessica Lynch: I think there's an exciting new wave of focus on mental and emotional health and meeting people where they are and making it okay to not feel okay, giving people the individual support they need with different apps that now connect you to mental health professionals. But also these consumer fitness companies like Peloton just created a new series based on mood. "Here's a workout to do if you feel sad," or if you feel confident. It's really just interesting with this wave of mental health, innovation and investment in the VC community. So it'd interesting how that the emotional side of making change and focusing on your health moves into every other aspect of health.
Daniel Serfaty: I wonder if that's something invitation with a lot of quasi science and charlatans to enter the market because for sad it is zucchini, but if you are angry, eat a pepper. People are going to come up with those ideas-
Jessica Lynch: Well, in this case, it's still just trying to get you to move. So the positive is no matter how you're feeling, you can still do something and you can still, rather than sitting on the couch and increasing your BMI. So I like that aspect of it, do something, no matter how you're feeling.
Phil Wagner: There's kind of two populations, we all represent on the call. One is people that just need to get up and move to Jess's point. And so anything that can help inspire them to do that is helpful. And science really isn't necessarily there, that's more of marketing, how do you speak to the individual? The other piece though, is where that kind of messaging can be dangerous as people that are already active. I mentioned the air force talking with some air force pilots, they love Peloton. The challenge becomes if they have low back pain and tight hips from sitting in the compact cockpit, small cockpit all day.
If you ask me, what's the worst thing you could do? I would explain that it would be getting on a bike and riding a bike hard. Because if your back hurts and your hips are tight, you should do zero Peloton, zero biking. And so I think it becomes important too for the science more so on the groups are already active to direct them into which activities are okay. Because sometimes it gets lumped into the non-active population where anything's good. And the air force or the athletes might not be the same way. "Well, anything's good. I got on the bike." It's like, "Well, no, in your case it's not. Everything is not good."
Jessica Lynch: Differentiation.
Phil Wagner: Yeah.
Daniel Serfaty: That's a very, very insightful remark here, Phil. You're right. Depending on which level you're at and what are your needs, you should have a particular prescription for you and not everything goes. Again, only because it's engaging and only because there is a score in the lower left corner of the screen. That's good. I'm more interested also to continue on something that, Jess, I know you mentioned a couple of times today, but I know it's at the center of the whole value proposition of what your company is doing. Is this connection often talked about, but seldom implemented, of the connection between physical fitness and emotional fitness or even mental fitness? How do we balance that with technology when we don't have a psychotherapist on site, in a box or even an MD in a box, how do we combine these two?
Jessica Lynch: Well, there's an opportunity to combine less of that professional one-on-one time and more of a lower grade, you don't need an MD to ask if you went for your walk that day, or if you followed the diet plan that was specified in your last dietician session. So it's blending the two, but ultimately we're human, and we like to feel that positive reinforcement from others. And we like to know that we're not alone and that if we had a hard day, it's not a reflection of our own worth. And we're still worthy of getting up the next day and investing time in ourselves versus all the other things that we're doing for everyone else around us.
It's really difficult for parents, it can feel selfish to do things for themselves when they otherwise could be doing something for their kids. And so feeling like by doing something for themselves, you're actually doing something for someone else can be very motivating. And so I think it's about creating the structure around the prescriptive recommendations to help people follow through, adopt it and be successful. But can't forget that we're human, we're going to have good days and bad days. You need to be able to maintain your motivation and feel encouraged to keep going, because there's going to be plenty of bad days.
Daniel Serfaty: Jess was describing disconnection between the physical and the mental for the larger consumer, the population. I wonder if it also applies at the end of the curve, basically with people that are professional athletes.
Phil Wagner: Yeah. And I actually think more so with trained individuals because they actually are closer to their physical capacities, to the point where if someone's sleeping seven hours a day and they're very well-trained, we often recommend, "Hey, train one day less a week, take that time and use that to sleep more. And that's a workout in and of itself." Because if the goal of exercise for you is to perform at your job higher, or run faster, or lift more weight, if that's part of your job, sleeping plays a role over that just as much as lifting weights.
So start changing that mindset of a singular goal, optimizing better through mood, but also physical and you can't separate those out. I think the other place this comes into play more in the future if we look ahead is, in the war fighting and athlete community, and at least for a lot of type A males, speaking for myself, no one's raising their hands saying, "I don't feel good mentally." No one's saying like, "I want help." They should, we all should be doing that more. But physical exercise can be a leading indicator for that mental health. If individuals are exercising less, are less motivated, or performing at a lesser level, that could be a more effective leading indicator, than surveys in groups where they don't want to admit there's a weakness.
Daniel Serfaty: That's very interesting that we have to pay attention more, as you say, for the professionals than just for the general population, because of that reluctance. Do you see that in your world, Angelica too, with the tough Marines, they think that just going to the gym, will fix it as opposed to meditating, or taking a break, or doing something for their mental health?
Angelica Smith: Yeah. Unfortunately that is how my experience has shown that what's important to them is just kind of that physical aspect of health. But like I said, previously, I've seen certain individuals within the Marine advocate for mental health and other aspects of health, not just the physical training part. So you've got people who are advocating within the military who want to see more of that research and want to see tools that affect advancements in that area and performance in that area for our war fighters. I don't think we're exactly there yet however.
Daniel Serfaty: Yes. Maybe that's a population that self-select, so like maybe professional athletes, because for particular reasons, think about that.