Ayurvedic Parenting: Raising Regulated, Resilient Children with Dr. Jayarajan Kodikannath

I sit down with Dr. Jayarajan Kodikannath to explore Ayurvedic parenting, child development, and holistic well-being. We discuss prakriti in children, digestion, hydration, breath, mindfulness, emotional health, modern parenting challenges, and practical ways to raise resilient, balanced, and healthy children through the lens of Ayurveda.

Episode Highlights:

• Inspiration behind the book
• Ayurvedic pediatrics explained
• Understanding the whole child
• Prakriti and child development
• Optimizing health from conception
• Healing versus fixing
• Digestion and nutrition
• Water and hydration
• Breath and self-regulation
• Mindfulness and awareness
• Ego and child development
• Sattva, rajas, and tamas
• Perception and mental health
• Parenting in the digital age
• Modern parenting approaches
• Building trust with children
• Supporting individuality
• Common childhood health concerns
• Self-care for parents
• Conscious parenting practices

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of the Let's Talk Yoga Podcast. I'm Arundati and I'm so glad that you are here. Before we jump into today's show, I want to take a moment and remind you, or rather ask you, I hope you are on my monthly mailing list because we usually send out a collection of the month's episodes and other resources to our monthly list. So I hope you are on it. The link to sign up for that is in the podcast description. Now, on the show today, I have one of my favorite Ayurveda people back, Dr. Jayarajan Kodi Kanat is on the show today and he is no stranger to the Let's Talk Yoga podcast. For those of you who don't know, Dr. Jay, as we call him, is a renowned Ayurvedic scholar, author, researcher, keynote speaker, educator, and somebody who is deeply immersed in sharing Ayurvedic wisdom with the world. He is currently the president of the National Ayurvedic Medical Association, which we call as Nama, and he is also the CEO and the chief Ayurveda consultant of Kerala Ayurveda USA. Under his leadership, Kerala Ayurveda recently received an award that is the top alternative medicine yoga company in 2023 by PharmaTech Outlook. And just Dr. J's resume is long and endless. He is also the author of an award-winning book called The Parents' Complete Guide to Ayurveda Principles, Practices, Recipes for Healthy, Happy Children. I have known about this book for a couple of years. And as someone who is child-free, I have just hesitated to have a conversation about parenting on the podcast. But I have always known that the work that Dr. J puts out is so relevant to all of us. So I took some time, dove deep into this book. There is so much to unpack in this episode. And you will get a lot out of it, even if you are not a parent. And that is the beauty of this book and Dr. J's work. In fact, I talk about that. I bring up how I was resistant to do this interview because I was like, what will I talk about parenting and children? But I learned so much along the way from this particular book. Okay. So in this conversation, Dr. J and I, we talk about so many different things and we cover a lot of ground. It is effortless to have these conversations with Dr. J. We start with what was the inspiration behind this book, and he gives us a very beautiful answer to what his experience was and what drove him to create this resource for the world. And then we get into many different layers of this conversation. We talk about this branch of Ayurveda that I didn't know about, which deals with pediatrics and what it's called. And he talks about the whole child. And does a mindful child look different from a mindful adult? We dive into prakriti, understanding prakriti in children and what does that mean, especially because children are still forming in so many different ways. And when does prakriti become actually readable? Then I quiz him about how people often come to Ayurveda when everything else has failed, kids' eczema, anxiety, digestion problems. People come to Ayurveda to fix things. And he has such a surprising and wonderful take on that. And then we get into more parts of this book where we talk about the four inputs food, water, breath, and perception. And we unpack these four layers, and you will get a lot from these four layers, even if you are not a parent. And then the conversation just flows. We talk about so many different things, including what's the goal of all of this. Okay. And just layers. And the conversation is so organic. And I always enjoy learning, listening, and being around Dr. J. To me, it is very inspirational. And I hope someday that we can do more conversations with him on the show. He is an extremely busy and sought-after man, but he always makes time and space for the Let's Talk Yoga podcast and these conversations. So I hope that you will get a lot out of this conversation, even though it is about parenting. If you are not a parent, I'm sure you nurture in some form, you nurture yourself or you nurture somebody around you. So I hope you get a lot out of this. I have linked everything about Dr. J in the podcast description and on our website letstalk.yoga forward slash listen. This includes links to his school, Kerala Ayurveda, his bio, and where you can find him on social. Okay. So I hope you enjoy today's show. I will see you on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Hi everyone, I'm Arundhati, and you've just tuned in to the Let's Talk Yoga Podcast, your ultimate online destination for learning about yoga. Whether you're a seasoned yoga teacher or a curious yoga student, there's something for you here. Let this podcast be your virtual yoga school. We offer insights, inspiration, and loads of nerdy exploration of yoga about the way. But first, who am I? I'm an Indian immigrant yoga teacher, immigrant America, I have my own yoga. I'm also a polywood courtyard, and I've not heard a private yoga community at my studio, as well as a global yoga audience to my courses at this podcast. Through this podcast, I intend to create a space for you, the yoga student and yoga teacher, to learn about yoga. Think of this as your online yoga school free teacher training coming to you every week. So grab your cup of chai and let's jump in.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Welcome back, Dr. J to the Let's Talk Yoga Podcast.

SPEAKER_05 5:41

So happy to be here, Narindadee. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Thank you for accepting the invitation. I you've been on this podcast before, and I always love running into you when I meet you in Sedhona. So you have this book that you wrote. The last time I met you, I know this book was out. It's called The Parents' Complete Guide to Ayurveda. And this time when I met you in Sedona and I brought this topic up, you mentioned to me that this is your life's work in many ways. So, and I don't know if a book like this exists in the world today. So, what was the inspiration behind creating this resource for parents?

SPEAKER_05 6:22

Good question. You know, 28 years of practice of Ayurveda as a very active clinician, about 12, 13 years in India, 30, 40 patients a day, and here in the US for 15 years, I naturally attract a lot of children in my practice. I never advertise or I mentioned anywhere I want to work with more children, but I naturally attract a lot of children. So in that process, both in India and here in America, I found a lot of challenges parents are facing, a lot of challenges kids are facing. Because parents love their children and children love their parents. But there is no real guidance, at least principle-based indicators and guidance for the parents. What to do? They laugh. That means four eyes on one kid constantly. Over attention also sometimes a problem. And then I found till the age of four or five, it's okay. You know, there's no problem. But after that, gaps start developing between the kids and the parents. And then I, you know, I always see this conflict, and it can even reach to a state that, oh mom, have you heard that kind of an expression? That one mom calling tells a lot of things to you. My mom is always like this, and always she's finding fault, always she's pushing me. And I, you know, I have been thinking that why that gap developing, despite of loving each other, why that gap, how can I help and orient the parents? One not to have that gap, second, able to guide them properly to develop their kids as, you know, a good human being, a healthy human being, understands the living, healthy living practices. And that was the real inspiration behind it, because from that five, six kids are developing. They are individuals, they have their own opinion, they have their own like up to that age, whatever you give, feeds, child will eat it, wherever you take, the child will go. After that, their individual develops. But sometimes the parents may not be able to understand in that way why you are not following me, why you are not hearing me. And we need to change the perspective that they are also individuals, they have their opinion, they have their own likes and dislikes, and how to accept that, accommodate that, and guide them. So that was the primary inspiration, and that has been, you know, helping. I get a lot of good feedback about it, how much it is helpful.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

No, it's a wonderful book, and there was something at the start of the book that that surprised me. And there is this entire section of Ayurveda pediatrics that I had no idea about, and if I'm not wrong, it's called Kaurama Brittya.

SPEAKER_05 9:30

Um Kaumara Brittya. You know, there is Ashtanga Yoga the same way there is Ashtanga Ayurveda. But in Ashtanga Yoga, yeah, ashtanga yoga is about a progress of one individual. Aligning first is with outside world, you align, then you align with your principle, then your body, your breath, your senses, then complete alignment. You know, that's a journey of an individual in Ashtanga Yoga, where Ashtanga Ayurveda is the eight clinical specialities of Ayurveda. And one of the eight clinical specialities is Kaumara Pratya, the Ayurveda. It's not only about solving the problems of kids, it's about even how to prepare to have a healthy kid. Even pregnancy, guidance, pregnancy guidance, then the postpartum, you know, neonatal care, then the whole. And we say that until age of 16 is the primary that growth and development time. But a human being being will be completely matured, you know, by when? Physically, mentally, emotionally, at all levels, completely matured by when?

SPEAKER_02 10:41

25?

SPEAKER_05 10:43

30.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 10:45

30 years is the complete maturity.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. And in this seg, in that, when I was reading that, I was very surprised by it because I had never thought of it like that. But but it just makes sense as I read your book. You talk about this, the whole child. And that is that was very interesting for me to read. What does the whole child mean? What does it encompass?

SPEAKER_05 11:10

Sure. Yeah, the whole person approach is missing in the modern uh world. It's all compartmentalized, and seeing everything as a separate unit or a chemical cocktail, brain, etc. It's not that. A whole child means a child, of course, with a physical body, the mind and emotions, and the soul within. And we know that we are here for a purpose. Why we are born in a particular family at a particular time, it is not our choice, right? It's a nature's choice. The same way taking us from this physical world also, it's not our choice, it's nature's choice. So the whole child means a child with the physical body, the mind and emotions, and the soul within in seeing working as a single unit, constantly interacting with the environment.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

It reminds me of the koshas that that in yoga we we exactly.

SPEAKER_05 12:13

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

You talk about prakriti in children in this book, and you built the book around it in many ways, trying to help the parent understand their child's prakriti. And sometimes I wonder, you know, the parent reading the book, do they know their own prakriti? Because, you know, that that that has so much impact in our own lives. But children are forming and mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, their constitution is building. So, at what age would prakriti become more readable? Because it's constantly changing, right? So, what are some of the signs that that are available? And when does prakriti fully develop?

SPEAKER_05 12:58

Good question. Prakriti is developed at the time of inception, not even at the time of birth. And there is a beautiful definition of pragati, one of the most ancient texts. And it says Prakriti is a state of dosha established as your nature at the time of inception, that will stay with you the whole life, and that is developed on its own. It's not just dad is this pragdhi, so child will be this prakriti, or mom is one pragdhi, child will be that pragadhi. The prakriti of an individual is decided on its own because there is a soul coming that is not from mom or dad, and it won't create any disease on its own. So prakriti is yourself, your nature, your body structure, your body function, your your tendencies, your affinities, everything will be defined by or prompted by your nature. So it's formed at the time of inception, and that will never change in a human's life. Prakti will never change. Now, let me finish the answer. You asked by when it will be we can be able to read it or understand it and accept it. Of course, children are really growing fast, a lot of transformation happens. An expert, a well-learned Ayurvedic professional, will be able to identify any time in the light. But from a general perspective, by the age of seven, it will be much more readable directly. But subtle way, even before that, you'll be able to write it.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

I've I've heard this in my early yoga studies that you know, at the time of inception, it's very important because you are determining what kind of child this will become. Does it mean, and I'm going off track a little bit and I'll come back in a moment, but does this mean that we have some control? Like if I follow or anybody follows all the prescribed ways of eating, living, being, then you have more control over it?

SPEAKER_05 15:13

See, you can optimize it.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 15:17

The final defining aspect is coming from the nature, it's not not you.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

I like that word.

SPEAKER_05 15:24

Optimize it to enhance the possibility and probability of a healthy, happy, long-living you know, child.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

No, that's a wonderful term. You can optimize it. Um my understanding or my experience, what I've noticed is often, especially here, people come to Ayurveda to fix some problems that couldn't be fixed elsewhere. Like, for example, parents will come because of eczema, some digestion issue, some anxiety issue, sleep disorders. What do you think is the fundamental mistake in the approach where we're coming to fix things? What would you suggest is that mindset shift that we need to make when we come to Ayurveda?

SPEAKER_05 16:11

First of all, the idea of fixing will not work when it comes to health and life. Okay. We can fix a car, we can fix a washing machine, you know, or the dishwasher. You know, they're all static equipment that will work with an IG. But this is a biological system. The very definition of life itself is the uninterrupted flow of nature happens through one form. That duration is called life. The flow started at the time of inception, the flow will end at an event called death. Until that, it is continuous flow. If life is a continuous flow, how can you fix it? So there's no idea of fixing. The idea is how you can optimize the strength and balance and stay optimized. Okay, that's a big mindset we need. I get this question very frequently. Can you fix me? I tell them, no, sorry, I cannot fix you because you are not a machine. So then I explain them. Disease is nothing but the deviation from the natural balance. Whether it is physical disorder, mental disorder, any system, skin, joint, gut, disease, all diseases are the deviation from its natural balanced state. So then what is healing? Getting back to that natural balanced state. Bringing the individual back to their natural balanced state. It's a journey. It's a step-by-step journey to get there and stay there, optimized. And that journey depends upon the chronicity and severity. Whether it is a child or an adult.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Fair, fair.

SPEAKER_05 17:59

The journey is the same.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah. No, it's a beautiful thing. You're not a machine, so there's nothing to fix. And it is coming back to that state of balance. To me, it is always the way the way you respond to these are so enriching. In your book, there is this entire section where you talk about the four inputs food, water, breath, and perception. And I want to get into all of it because when the lay person thinks of Ayurveda, and I would put myself in that category, we think of food as, you know, so many ways of reaching to Ayurveda. And as an Indian person, I know that especially Indian mothers, they go to great lengths to feed their kids in the best way possible, you know, fresh food and nutritious food. And it becomes it's a way of them expressing their love. And in your book, though, you do talk a lot about food, but you also talk about what's your child's digestion. And why is that so important? Because it's you're saying, yes, consumption is one thing, but notice how that's being consumed. So why should someone pay attention to digestion?

SPEAKER_05 19:10

Okay. The primary difference between the modern nutrition and the Ayurveda nutrition is that. Modern nutrition says you are what you eat. That is why this many grams or you know, ounces of protein, this many milligrams of this vitamin, everything is because you eat it, you are that. That is a modern nutritional concept. But Ayuruveda is very clear, you are not what you eat. You are what you digest. You can eat everything, but if your digestion is not proper, digestion means the ability to transform what we are eating and the ability to separate the nutrients and the waste, the ability to absorb the nutrients optimally, and ability to eliminate the waste in a regular way. All these four are the part of our digestion. If this process is not seamless, not correct, whatever you eat, you will enrich your poop and you will not yourself. Your body is not taking it. So that's why Ayurveda gives a lot of importance to the digestion. So when parents come with a kid and they will say that my kid is not gaining weight, my pediatrician told sometime I will have to put a tube to give the food through the because you need to increase calories, etc. And they are devastated. Putting a tube to feed my so I always tell them it's all about the ability of your kid to eat, to digest, to absorb and nourish completely depends upon the digestive system. That's why we are always the primary focus of Ayurvedic clinical management is first to support the digestion and metabolism. So that is why I mentioned in the book that while you are aware about wholesome food, the natural food, you need to have food groups, the you know, the nutritional details, you need to keep preserving and enhancing the digestion to ensure that it is able to get the nutrients.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

That you are not what you eat, you are what you digest. And that is because so often, you know, kids are fussy, they are picky eaters, they like certain things, and and so I think it's a very important distinction. I had another aha moment in in your book where you talk, you have a chapter dedicated to water. And I always put water as part of food in my naive understanding. But you actually dedicate a full chapter to water and you write at great lengths about it. So what have we misunderstood about water consumption, or what should parents know?

SPEAKER_05 22:15

Sure. First misconsumption across not only kids, even adults is when you drink water, the better for you. When you drink more water, the better. So always there is a push to drink more and more water. Now, water is of course very important because as I mentioned in the book, 70% of the earth is water, 70% of our body is water. Every cell, the majority, the content is water. So water is so essential for us, but not too less, not too much. So you should know what is right for you. The problem of drinking too much, you know, you drink more, that is better for you. The problem of that concept is there are two issues. Issue number one, that's the most important for me as an Ayurveda clinician, that your digestion, we call it a digestive fire, right? This fire is working in the fluid form. Your saliva is the part of the fire. The acids, the hydrochloric acid in your stomach is a part of it. The bile coming from your liver is a part of it. It's all in the fluid format. Whenever you drink too much water, you're going to dilute your saliva, your acid, your bile, you're going to weaken your digestion. Okay? So that is one of the main issues. When you drink too much water, you're going to weaken your ability to digest and absorb. Second issue is that you're going to overload, you know. Water when you drink, it is not just through a tube, it just goes out. Your body has to process it. It has to be absorbed, going through all the circulation. Then the kidney needs to filter it. You're going to add more load even on the excretory system. So, from an aerobatic standpoint, too much water is not good. Too less is not good. Because your food in your stomach should be in a semi-liquid, semi-solid form. So fluid is necessary, but you need to be watchful. That's why, especially, we say with the meal, please don't drink too much water. There's only one particular time of a day where you can drink a cup or more, two cups together. That is first in the morning. That too, if you have at least 45 minutes to one hour to the breakfast.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Because you're breaking that fast from overnight. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. It reminds me of my um paternal grandmother. When I was young, she would always not let us have water as we sat to eat lunch or a meal. She would always say, No, finish your meal first. Finish your meal. And I back then, as a young child who didn't know anything, I would think, why is she being so greedy with water? You know, it was hot, we would be playing, we'd come sit, and we'd be like, give more, give us water from the fridge. And she would be like, No, and she would always give us just a sip of water before a meal. It made sense probably three decades later. And I contrast that to sometimes at the studio, I see people bring these big containers with markers. And I look at them and it's a conversation I often have. I'm like, are you thirsty though? Is your body asking you to consume that? Or did some Instagram reel somebody said, chug this much water? And I use it as a moment to to be like listen to your own body signals. So it's it's a very important call out that don't be mechanical about everything. See what your body uh I agree with you.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

Listening to the body is very important. Listening to the body when it comes to the water intake, it's not only listening just to your thirst, because your thirst can vary based on your habituation. If you are a person not used to drinking water, you may not feel thirsty. If you're a person used to drink a lot of water, you may feel that's a concept of habituation that we need to be mindful. Another react what I give, whether you are having enough water or not, that is a very simple thing anybody can see is are you able to maintain your urine either colorless or light stroll color? That is a simple layman's thing. Whenever you see that, oh, my urine is very yellow today, that means you don't have enough hydration.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Ah, interesting. That's that's that's good to know. And I'm going off track for a moment. Is it dosha, like say vata being more dry? And again, I have and do not have the depth of knowledge and wisdom that you do. So will somebody more dry like that crave more water versus somebody who's more kuffa?

SPEAKER_05 27:06

Yes, there is a it's a relative expression. Relatively, vadhas may look for more water because they have more dryness. In a pittas may look because their body heat is more, there will be more perspiration, there will be a lot of water loss. So these are the two constitutions may look for or may need a little bit more hydration than the kuffar. Because kafa holds seven things and keep it, preserves it.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Yeah, no, just I know it was off track, but it was just something that came to mind. In your book, you talk about breath breathing and the importance of it in children. And I, to me, it is such a I always like to think of myself as a pranayama nerd, a breath nerd. And I always say if there's one relationship in your life you cultivate, it is with your breath. And and to me, it is very central in life. So I know you can't teach us every technique, that's why this book is there. But what is the role or importance of breath for a child? Because as adults, for us to say, connect to our breath itself is so challenging. But for a child who's growing so quickly and has so much energy, what can parents do or realize about breath in connection to their child's development?

SPEAKER_05 28:29

Sure. You know, as you already know, and as a yoga, you know, expert, that breath is life. You know, the vital breath, the prana, the physical prana is the prana vaya, the oxygen. The subtle pranas are the panchapranas, you know, and the unitivity prana, etc. The concept. So breath is your life. And through breath, you can regulate a lot of things, right? You want to cool your body down, you can do that through breath. You want your body to get activated, you can do that. You want your, you know, your child to calm down, you can. I use breath as a as a very effective tool in you know helping the children coming to us. What I usually do is if it is small kids, say that four years, five years, six years, I will create a family ritual. A family fun evening ritual. The whole family breath, breathe together. Okay, and if there are children that are irritable or they're getting scared and getting affected, I tell the parents when they come with that heavy emotion, intensity, hug them tightly and breathe for them. Breathe with them and breathe for them. And I demonstrate this. You know, the kid is affected, etc. Just hug you pat and say that, breathe. And you breathe for them. You can see that the calming down immediately happens. It'll be much easier rather than having a conversation. Very simple technique that can be helpful. So breath is everything. According to who your child is, what is the tendency, what are the propensity. You can regulate the way you want by using the right nutrition, the right breath, and the right guidance sitting together.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

I really wish people knew how much breath is so sophisticated. Like the yogis left us this such a vast system that we don't tap into, like the lay person doesn't tap into. And as you were saying, you know, if if the if the child is hot, there are there are breathing practices to cool. If the child is upset, there is so much. And it it is truly that I always say for adults, it's a secret power. We don't know we have it, but but it is there. Is would you say that children who are mouth breathing that has to be corrected sooner than later? Uh because we we look, I think of it as you know, parents are telling the child, you have to do this, you have to do that. We address the mind. Are we addressing the energetic body as much as we are addressing the mind? Am I making sense?

SPEAKER_05 31:28

Definitely, complete sense. Breathing through nose is very important. Usually what happens, children breathing through mouth, usually it can be of there are respiratory allergies, their nose is always congested. And there are conditions like adenoids where the passage is more blocked. So, as a under comfort, they open their mouth and breathe through the mouth, or while sleeping, they tend to open their mouth. So, if an underlying issue is making them do that, first is to correct those issues, and there are effective methods to help them with that. Because there are two aspects you should know about it. One, when you breathe through nose, it is not just, oh, this is a hole where the air is just going to the lungs. There are a lot of physiological changes happening to your breath when you breathe. You know that it one, it filters with all the particles and the dirt, everything going. There is one filtration is happening, regulation of moisture, regulation of temperature. All these are happening within that one second in which the air goes through your nose. That is why there are a lot of you know different structures within to accomplish this purpose. But when you breathe through the mouth, mouth is not made to give that function or provide the function. So we should definitely develop, you know, help them to have more nasal breathing than the breathing.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

And I'm just I'm agreeing with you, right? Everything we I always say, right nostril connects to left hemisphere, left nostril connects to right hemisphere, right cover the right side. So I believe it is it is we're sitting on something that we don't know how potent it is. So I'm glad you have so much dedication in your book to it. When I think of breath, I think of mindfulness. I think of the different pranas and managing the pranic system. Does mindfulness in an adult is it diff does it look different in a child?

SPEAKER_05 33:43

Definitely it's it's different in children, it's much easier in children. Okay, as you leave, grow as an adult, you have the entire collection of the experiences already defined you, create some preconceived ideas. By the time you see, you have an opinion about it. By the time you hear, you won't even listen to the complete sentence. You already decided what to respond. Children don't have that burden because they are fresh. They are fresh, that is why they are open, they are fresh, they can they are the ability to be mindful is much more easier and higher in children than the adults because we have the bar the you know the baggage. Our hunger is too much because we feel I've seen enough. I know enough.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

I know enough.

SPEAKER_05 34:32

This is a barrier. It's easier for children to be mindful than adults.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

That's fascinating because I somehow thought it's harder for children to be mindful, but but you're so right, they're transparent, they're a bit slate.

SPEAKER_05 34:45

And they're like a sponge. Yeah, just absorb what is coming in, and what is mindfulness? The ability to perceive as is, that is mindfulness, right? So while you hear something, you will not get something else. You will a child, when you say something to a child, child will hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

They will be so dishonest.

SPEAKER_05 35:08

But the adults, by hearing that, you must have already perceived. Oh, I know she's talking to me like this because of something else.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Because you mentioned Ahamkara, right? And I know it's it's it's there briefly in the book, but when does the ego form for a child? I mean, I know everybody has ego and good ego, and but is it formed as soon as you are born, or is it something like at 16, 17, or at puberty? Is that when does the ego form in a child?

SPEAKER_05 35:45

See, ahankara ego, it's a part of the existence. You know, if you look at Sanya philosophy, the prakriti and purusha, while all the perceptible universe is forming, there is a differentiator, the Sattvara Jastamas that differentiates everything. So the differentiation is a part of our real self, whether you are a very small kid or you are an adult. The difference, and by the way, ego, we generally in the modern world, I need to clarify this. You know, we usually say ego means I'm up to something, right? That is your the you know, your the ego, what you usually say. But in Ayurveda and yoga, ego means differentiating factor, the ability to differentiate. So from that perspective, it's across a child, has differentiating, you know, ability. You have me, you know, I have, all of us have. But when it comes to that, the generalized the ego concept of ahankara, that is it gradually grows as we age. The real ego side of it.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

I think ego gets that bad press, right? Of arrogance and negative. But we need ego to survive. We need to work through a day, and it's it's part of our self-image in many ways, or so I understand it.

SPEAKER_05 37:13

Ego is very important, otherwise, you won't understand what is right and wrong if you don't have the ego. Ego is important, but in a everything is in a neutral way. If you have it is supportive. Anything too much is a problem, anything too less is a problem.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

And and comes back to that central concept of be in balance. You spoke about this in your response. You mentioned in passing stamas just a moment ago. I know in adults, right, we're trying to be satvik in different ways. Are we trying to make children also move towards sattva?

SPEAKER_05 37:53

It's you know, I think it's a part of care. You know, see what is moving towards sattva means your ability to see and response in a balanced way, right? A pure way, in an open way, in a balanced way. So that is why even you know, I get into the conference discussions, debates. Sometimes this word is discussed in so many different contexts. Because for many people, satvik means certain fixed things are satvik.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Yes, yes, so true.

SPEAKER_05 38:30

That's not true.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Becomes very rich. That's not true, right?

SPEAKER_05 38:33

The Sattva Rajastamas is not a triangle. Not Sattva Rajastamas. Sattva Rajastamas is a straight line into infinity. One side is the rejas, activity and intensity. The more you go, the more intensity and activity. This side is dullness, heaviness, and inertia. The more you go that side, the more dull, more inertia and more darkness. Sattva is at the middle. You keep reducing regisantamas, you are naturally moving to the sattva where there is balanced activity and balanced grounding. So you are able to see things in the in the right way, in a pure way. So it's all about that optimization. You all have everything. There's nobody complete satvik or something completely rajistic. Relative predominance makes it more satvik, more races, more farmers.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

That's it's that analogy of triangle and a line is is very powerful because you're you're so right in saying we have everything. We need Rajas to wake up and not to keep sleeping through our whole life. But that that thing of it's infinite, you can keep going. Sure. You may you may burn in one of those sides, but you can keep going. I I I I really like that exactly coming back to the point.

SPEAKER_05 39:52

The ability to staying in the middle, not allowing yourself to go too much into that, too much here. As you rightly mentioned, we need the grounding, but it should be a balanced grounding, not dullness. You want the activity, but not intense activity. So that comes from the balance. That is why, from an Ayurvedic standpoint, Sattvik means what brings balance to you is called satvik for you.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:18

Not fixed items. You know, garlic is Rajasik, root vegetable, tamasik, etc. Ayurveda says if you are in a dull state with uh kafa, clogging, heaviness, garlic will help you to come to the sattva because you need some activation to come out of the dullness. So there's no fixed idea or fixed lag, no labels of this is always sattvik. This is always Rajasik, this is always tamasik. It weighs varies according to what you need to come to a sattva state.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

And and because everybody is unique and their own prakriti and so much.

SPEAKER_05 40:56

Exactly. I think there's a scope for a whole segment on the sattva.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Absolutely. I always think that because you have so much wisdom, making you talk about those basics is not the right use of your time. The most fascinating part for of the four things for me was the fact that you you brought up perception as the fourth input. And it is so significant. Because as adults, we think of body, breath, and then mind. Some people think of it, maybe not everybody, but you bring up perception of the child, right? To me, how does someone who doesn't do yoga and Ayurveda, like who doesn't have exposure, understanding, experience? Because there is that half-baked intellectual understanding of it, and the lived experience to me is always more potent. So for parents who don't have that understanding, right? How do they develop this understanding of how is my child perceiving the world? You talk about mind care, improper use of senses, and I mean to me that when you talk about that, I'm thinking Pratyahara from the world of yoga. You talk about parenting in the digital age because back in the day when I was a child, right? Four decades ago, when I was a child, you could nothing came into your house. You it was a very you could allow certain things to come in, and certain your exposure was very, for lack of a better word, controlled and limited. And it was easier. Today, everything through a screen will just come into our lives. So what can parents do for themselves and their child, practices, any perspective? How do they control or help or shape the perception of the child?

SPEAKER_05 42:51

So a very important question, and it's a very important point, but nobody understands or nobody knows how to manage this. From an algorithmic standpoint, you know, see, I've been traveling across the globe for so many years, and the one topic which I talk the most across the globe is mind care is life care. You can go and search on any platform, you will see at least few of my talks. Mind care is life care. Because our whole life depends upon our frame of mind. Okay, regardless of whether you are rich or poor, or you have a high position or you know, low, regardless, your whole life depends upon your frame of mind. Somebody who has everything from the outside can also feel internally what is the point in this life. I don't have. So the state of mind, that is the perception, the way how your mind takes and reacts to what you see, what you hear, what You watch and what you think that is called perception. And our responses, the way how we are going to respond physically, mentally, verbally, depends upon how you receive something, right? Your response will be accordingly. So in children, this is a very important topic I discussed with the parents about their mental and emotional development, right? The parenting style needs to be changed in the modern world. Because generally we have a thinking that, hey, when my dad told me I was doing that, why can't you do that? This is our approach to our children. Because we are trying to replicate what our parents did to us and how we responded. We are expecting the same type of a response. I was a kid when I now the world is different. They have much more. They are much more smarter. Because that's a part of adaptability. Any living system will naturally change to adapt to the change in the environment. As a part of that adaptation, our children are much smarter than us. True. And they have much more information available. You know, as you rightly mentioned, when we were at the age of 10, what information we had about the outside world, now it is available so easily. So that means the parents need to change the way they are parenting. They cannot use the tools or the experience what they had with their parents. That will create a lot of issues. I had a lot of experience, parents trying to use the same techniques and it is, you know, bouncing back. So the parenting style for the modern world, you know, if the previous generation, if my dad was telling me, go and do it something, I'll just go and do it.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

Because I need this, this is enough for me.

SPEAKER_05 46:01

My dad told me to do it, I'm doing it. But if I do that to my son, my son will look at me, he will take a pause. From the pause, you know that why I should do it. What will happen if I do it? What will happen if I don't do it? They are looking for logic and rationality. It's not that they disrespect us. That's the way they have their mind works. And if you are able to tell, I'm telling you this because of this, this is the way it is, this will help in this way. You don't need a reminder next time. They will do it. But they want to understand why before they do it. That's a clear shift from the previous generation to the current generation. I love working with children. When I get kids, for example, the high school age kids, I spend a lot of time with them. It's so interesting how their mind works, how they respond. I thoroughly enjoy that.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

I'm smiling a lot because I I'm I'm I can I can relate to what you're saying. When my parents would tell me, go do this, there was no, there was no choice. You know, like I didn't realize I could ask what, when, why, how, later, what if I do that, I'll do tomorrow. What will you give me if I do? None of that. I was not even that creative thinking was not even there. When I see my niece and nephew, 13 and 10, everything they are way ahead. Like where I was at, like 15, 16, they are there 10, 12 years sooner. So I I it makes a lot of sense when you say they've they've moved, and that fear-based parenting or that instructional thing of because I told you, do it. You know, it it uh creates a lot more tension. So I think it is such an important thing to notice.

SPEAKER_05 47:47

But now, for this world, now the best parenting is make your child as your best buddy, your best friend. They should be able to come and tell you anything. You should be able to hold the space and listen to it and guide them and support them. They're smarter. But our general style is the child will never come and tell you anything because you never show tolerance to them. If there is a there was a problem in school in a classroom, they come and say this happened today. It always is why did you stay there? Why can't you? We always as if the child didn't do what the child is supposed to do. A child may be totally, you know, not connected to that at all. But still, general parents' view is why couldn't come back from that? Why didn't why did you talk like that? That creates a problem. When you do that two, three times, child will never come and talk to you.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

They'll shut down.

SPEAKER_05 48:50

If they don't come and talk to you, you are losing the opportunity to guide them and support them. And whenever they are in trouble, since they are not feeling the comfort or the safety in you, you may shout at them, you may find fault. They will find some other venue to disclose and share their feeling that may not be as supportive and positive as you.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

One of my friends had said this, uh, it she was talking about her daughter, and she does yoga and she and she has a lot of exposure to Ayurveda. So she she was saying, you know, she's like, Oh, I don't want my child to be a mini version of me because I am not perfect, and I want her to be whoever she is, and I want to be in support of that. And she said something so beautiful. She said, I want to be in awe of that and and to celebrate and support and just witness this young woman that she's becoming.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

Lovely.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

And I don't want her to be me, I don't want her to be like me, think like me, you know, have my achievements and my faults. And to me, that was such a she was talking about holding space for the person that that child is and will become. And it was reminding, as you were speaking, was reminding me of that.

SPEAKER_05 50:23

Sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

Uh, I want to be mindful of your time here. There's a lot more in the later half of your book. You talk about, I mean, after perception, you talk about mantras, you talk about meditation. You also have a full section at the end of the book dedicated to a wide range of conditions, physical conditions, mind-related, from ADHD to autism to anxiety to development disorders or delays, not disorders necessarily, night terrors, then you go to digestive issues, you know. I mean, the list, I'm looking at the list I've made, and I can go on and on from diarrhea, you know, to obesity to respiratory issues. This is such a wonderful resource. That's what I'm trying to say. I know I can't ask you questions about every single thing, but this is such a wonderful resource. And I and I hope that more people pay attention to it. As we close here, I feel like it wouldn't be right for us to close without talking to the parents directly who do so much and who give themselves up in many ways to raise their children. So, is there one thing or anything that you want to tell the parent of how to nurture themselves while nurturing another?

SPEAKER_05 51:44

Very good, very good point. There are two things. Parents should consider this as a gift from the nature for them to nurture, and they should enjoy all the way. What I've seen is in the process of making their child healthier, smarter, number one, always. All parents want to be number one. That sometimes creates problems. But this is all with the positive things, but they do that with a lot of anxiousness, a lot of concerns, with the worry. What is the point? What's the point? They should enjoy that. And you should, you know, you should be supportive, you should be guiding and being supportive. And sometimes they can fall. That's okay. Sometimes they can do a mistake. Your child is also a human being, and error is human. You we have done our childhood, we know that what are the mistakes we have done, what are the things. They should have that kind of a buffer to keep rather than getting anxious for every small thing. And one topic became B plus or A minus, and why it is so it should not be that kind of a big your expressions that define your child. Whenever the child are like you know, children are uh sponge, they are observing you when they say something. What is your expression? Are you angry? Are you concerned? Are you worried? These all become a their part of experience that defines not only at that point of time how they are going to respond in the future.

SPEAKER_04 53:27

That's true.

SPEAKER_05 53:28

So one tip I give to all parents is please try to minimize the word no to your children as much as possible. Use the word no minimum. Every no is a kind of a kind of fear, a jerk, right? Your kid is going to take something that's not healthy. Oh no, means suddenly these no's are going to affect their self-confidence, their ability to take decisions in the future. Because they whatever they try to do, try to every time they had this no behind them. So please minimize no to them. Okay, if your child is going to pick up something not healthy for it, call the child and say, hey honey, in place of using that, why can't you use this? Rather than creating a that sudden that rattling, you know, that kind of jarring.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

It's very jarring.

SPEAKER_05 54:27

So please try to minimize no. It will not be easy, but you should, knowing that you are doing that for your child.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

Wonderful. Dr. Jay, you are always so full of wisdom and it just flows out of you. And I can I can have these conversations with you for so long. Thank you so much for all that you do and for putting this wonderful resource out into the world for parents. I actually, as someone without children, I learned so much from this for myself.

SPEAKER_05 54:58

Uh even though you know I wrote the book for parents to take it. But as principles of living is the same for all humans. I added some elements for children based on the book, but otherwise, I know the principle self, you know, for everyone. So I get this feedback a lot. I purchased the book for guiding my child, but it was a guidance for me.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

I mean, I from two years ago, I was I I know this book has existed, maybe a little more than that. And I always said, I'm not a parent, so what can I have this? What will I talk to you about? But when I met you this time, I was like, you know, it's time to have this conversation. And when I was reading this book, I could I could sense that while the parent or anybody will use it for a younger person, they can use it for themselves too. So I learned so much from it. And it's a wonderful resource. And and I want to thank you. And I know you have a co-author, Alison Young Gregory, who has my students. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 56:04

Very passionate, very passionate students.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Who has written this with you. And I and I hope that more people will come to this and all that you do. Thank you so much for being here. I hope we can talk again soon.

SPEAKER_05 56:17

Definitely, we should. Because the whole world needs guidance. They want to take care of themselves, but there is no guidance. Now, in the era of social media, you will hear 20 opinions about one thing. You know, what to choose, what not to choose. Some kind of uh, you know, guidance from the roots is really needed in various aspects of living. So I'm also hoping to be back with you, and I appreciate all what you do, including this podcast to share this in you know, important guidance and information with the whole world. And I really appreciate it. And I wish you all the best. Thanks for reading my book. And I know that you have gone through thoroughly. The questions were very clear.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

Thank you so much, Dr. J. I will I have so many questions that are still unanswered, but for another time. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 57:14

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 57:15

Take care.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Thank you so much for listening. As always, you can find all the links listed at let's talk.yoga forward slash listen. And if you enjoyed this conversation, please share this episode with one other person. You can also rate and review this podcast. It always means a lot and it helps us to keep this going for this community. Thank you so much. I will be back next week with another conversation and another guest. Until then, enjoy your practice. Bye bye.