Ep 236 - Amans Table How does Craft live on and Nanny Problems

Aman, Wes, and I talk about how Craft carved out a place in the current oversaturated market.  They both give their opinions on what craft is to them.  We also get into some issues I'm having with my Nanny.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Bourbon Boys. We're back at Amon's table. I'm joined today by Amon and Amon and Wes. What did you show that? That's what the fizz pump was for. What else is new? Amon, how's it going? Great. How are you? Not too bad. Y'all got some hairy ass legs.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Thank you so much. We're men. We're her suit.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Excuse yourself. Very herself. Smarty men. Yes. We've got the hair on top of our heads at least. Ooh, got it. I used to have hair.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

I'm also 50 now, so.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

I'm close to 50 too, so. Are you? How close? 48. Well, that's close. Yeah, that's close. That's about as close as you can get without drinking.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

But you have more white in your beard than I do. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

I've had started having white in my beard since I was like 21.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Uh.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

So even before I had the kids. I can't really blame it on the kids, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

You've been stressing for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

I have. I see.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

See, I don't stress it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

It was all the weight I had. It was putting stress on my body. Sucked the melanin out of your face. Yes, it did. Sucked all the color out of my beard and hair. Alright, well, we we have a topic that was given to us by a view, uh viewer. I hope this is a viewer. A potential listener. I don't know if he listens or not, but maybe he does. Anyway, uh, what's gonna happen when uh to ma and pa bourbon is what he said.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Let's defend the colour.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

The craft bourbon. Okay, let's let's go back to that. Since we were I was gonna bring up that topic anyway, since last week I posted an episode, it was what is craft bourbon after I got into a discussion with somebody. What's your opinion on what craft is, Amon? What would you consider a craft distillery?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Um, from okay, I would say craft distillery is the one who has their own stills, distills their own distillate, and fills their own barrels, houses them in-house, bottles them themselves, labels it, puts it out.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

So a secondary question to that, would you consider Jay Henry craft? You don't want to answer that.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

They just don't do the first step. I mean, I think they do every other step.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

I'm very strict on my opinion of craft.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Still craft.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I would call it a craft. Yes. Because they're crazy.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Still craft because they it's their mash bill. And they actually go even more, they do it even better because they grow their own grain, like you said. So it's more farm to table than a lot of other stuff.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Okay. Your face gave way like you were gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

But we're not gonna call it craft, huh? It's craft. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

So what about you?

SPEAKER_01 2:49

I think uh I'm uh I'm of the same mind as you are, Chad. I think that Jay Henry is craft. I think a craft distillery is any distillery that isn't a legacy distillery. I think it's as simple as that.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Interesting. So MGP uh what do you consider MGP?

SPEAKER_01 3:09

MGP's legacy. Seagram's turned into LDI, turned into um if it's not like Brown Foreman, Heaven Hill, uh Willet, KBD family, um Four Roses, like if it's not a legacy distillery in Kentucky or I see what what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

We like the distillery that opened up in the old Taylor distillery is technically craft if you think about it. Castle and key. Yeah, I think key. Yeah, I think by your definition.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yeah, it's legacy versus craft. Yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yeah, I can go with Castle and Key being. Even though they're mass producing.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Yeah, that's the thing, you know, because they have such so much money behind them. You're not saying instantly it's volume.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

No, I know. Yeah, you're not saying who are the poorest distilleries.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

No, that's not what I'm saying. But when you think craft, you think they started small.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

They built up slowly. Right. You know, because that's part of the story and tale. Yes. Yes. Well, they're all kind of buying their history at this point, anyways. They'll buy old labels and be like, I guess it works.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Oh that's another variable if you work it in, which is how big were they when they started, how established were they, how much money they spent marketing? I don't think any of that matters. That matters. Okay. To me at least.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

It's like, are you four roses? No, okay, you're craft. Are you wild turkey? No, okay, you're craft.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

I see your logic.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

So as long as you're producing.

unknown 4:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

And you're not one of the original.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Even if you're not making the juice, if you're having if your contract is stilling and then storing it, but you're telling them what you want and using your yeast or using, you know, some level of proprietary production, uh, and you don't even need to store it. I mean, I don't know. I think it can be way more permissive than you must have your own still, you must store your own barrels, you must fill your own barrels. It's like, where do you draw the line? Do you draw the line at you don't grow your own corn? Do you draw the line at you don't char your own wood? Do you draw the line at you don't grow your own trees? Like you don't have your own blacksmith making You're really digging into it now. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

It's like it's gotta be blacksmith making rain. I mean, you're just exploding this whole notion now.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

I know, but I think it needs to be done so that you can clearly say everything is craft that isn't these legacy distillers. That's at least my argument. But then everything is everything. They never did that stuff either.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

They just fell into the yeast they fell into and the oak they fell into. It's about forestry.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Right, but when I hear craft versus legacy, I think entrenched, well-defined product that's been around a while versus newcomer, whether they're small or big or VC backed or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

So, like you said, Bartstown is craft.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Yeah. But I would say have they created anything on their own, or are they just content distilling other people's mash bills?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

I think they've got a million mash bills that they make, right? They do. For basically a tur they're a turnkey brewery and distillery. They can make whatever they want while they brew and distill. But to be able to brew whatever you want, that needs to be automatically.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

You have to brew if you want to distill.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

I've heard this. In every uh every tour you've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Take a little beer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

What I like to do is stick my head right over the tank and then. That carbon dioxide really does this. Yeah, I like to inhale deeply and pass out.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

That's why you I was gonna say that's why you fainted on every tour you've ever done. Yeah, we pushed them out of many tanks.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Like the goats. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Open an umbrella near me, dip your head in CO2, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Well, back to the main topic we were on before we got off on the tangent. Um, what's gonna happen to those? How are they gonna find a niche on the on the shelf, on your on your shelf, Amon? How are these craft distilleries that have not started producing or are currently doing gonna find a way on the shelf when there's so many whiskies out there from legacy distilleries?

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Well, craft distilleries are gonna have to come talk to us. Literally. I mean, we help locals out a lot, like people are doing stuff locally. There's this one guy, Yoder, Yoder and Company. He does these smoked uh salts and other ingredients for cocktails, and he sells a ton through our store because he does tastings, he's local. We love that stuff. But depends craft from where, and if they have personnel or people who make it, come and taste it out and get people into it. But most people who approach us through distributors, of course, are not crafted NDPs. I don't see a lot of craft coming through the door. I don't talk to a lot of craft people coming through the door. It's a really entrenched market. Yes, because it's hard to break into it, and anyone breaking into it, they're not gonna start with us, they're gonna start with a place of their own, build their brand, and go from there. And it's very hard to do that right now.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Especially when buying whiskey is cheaper than producing it at this point. Exactly. Especially age stock.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

It's a it's a huge gate that people can't.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Have you tried uh small little rounds still or something like that? The guy I think he's out of Minnesota. The guy brought some stuff to uh Wednesday bottle share and it was and he had it. It was a single barrel. It was not good. It tasted super young. He was playing it up like it was really good.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

And I was like, That's the other thing. If you're craft and you're small, you're gonna have a lot of money behind you, now you're gonna have to use small barrels or something for cash flow. If you don't have a bar, what are you gonna do? How are you gonna create that cash flow? People start compromising the whiskey, and then that becomes the product people remember, and you never get out of that strait jacket. That's what you're gonna be remembered as.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Makes you wonder if Driftless or uh Hubert's would be able to make it just because they got that huge wine thing and it's like.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Well, they have lots of cash flow.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

But if they like if it started now, do you think Drifless Glenn would be able to get as good as they have been?

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Or widely actually I don't even know when they started. Or how they built it, what they made first.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

I mean, it was three or four years, maybe five years. I mean, there's their whiskey's just now ten years is like the max they have, so you gotta imagine it was ten years ago. Yeah. So imagine 2016. The industry was a lot different now. Right. Could you actually produce and have that kind of facility that they have?

SPEAKER_02 10:03

I don't think right now, and that distillery also is so interesting because no one puts that big a column still without a plan for it, and I sometimes think they still have more capacity than they're using.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

How do I say this? They are underproducing for what they should be, and they do have demand now.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

But I don't know. I don't know their business model, I don't know how they did it.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

I'm not sure they had much of a business model. I don't but I don't know because I wouldn't end there if they're their financials, but I know they were selling cars.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

They were just entrepreneurs, they're like, we should open a distillery and it was a hot commodity when they did it ten years ago.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah. It seems like they just called uh what's the company that makes still. They're like, uh, what do we need? They're like, you need this big.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

You're gonna need I need the biggest ass column 18 inch. Big old column still.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Send it.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah, you make it vodka?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Bring it to Barbie. Make it look like a chimney people can see from two months. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Deliver it to Bareboo, Wisconsin. Right next to the uh Barnum and Bailey Museum.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Yeah. An interesting city. But bar I mean Driftless, that is craft.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah, so Driftless is as craft as craft gets. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Because also, the craft is not just about one thing. It's different barrels, whatever was available at the time, it's different ways they distilled it because they don't have to have one train distiller. There's multiple people around the world.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

And they have process, you know, improvements that they make over time. So you get to see that improvement in the industrial quality of what they're making, and see that impact in like the organic organoleptic profiles. Like, do you like the way this tastes now or before? And uh, you know, you get kind of weirder, you know, knob turny distillate when they're starting out, and then as they figure things out, they're like, oh, we need to turn the knobs this much. We'll do it all the time that way. Yeah. So I think that is like kind of another part of the charm of craft distilleries that are kind of figuring out while they're you know flying by the seat of their pants how to get all this stuff bottled and make it.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

What about the place downtown? What's the name of that place?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Uh Central Standard. What? Central Standard. No. No, Par 4141st Parallel. Parallel 45? That's way up north.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, that's north. Uh downtown. Milwaukee?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah. They they put out like a tiny little rye bottle, right? Yep. Oh, that guy. That guy? CIA guy.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Yeah, CIA guy.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

CIA, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

How has he been able to like make it at putting out that little I mean is the bar making that much money, you think?

SPEAKER_02 12:52

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

I haven't heard of Holy lately.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Twisted Path. Twisted Path, yeah. I haven't heard anything from that place lately. He used to do some releases. Yeah. And they were small barrels, and his rye was good. Yeah. It was very hazmat because of how hot it was in the world.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

He moved out of state, I think.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

What's that?

SPEAKER_00 13:09

He moved out of state, I think.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Oh, did he? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. I haven't heard of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

And I I guess it's their liqueurs and all that stuff that they put out that makes the money.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

He had a uh twisted chai cream. That was very unique. Yeah. I thought that would be as um chada, but it didn't work.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

So, in your opinion, the only way that uh small craft mom-pa barbon is gonna make it is if they come directly to the store owners and they're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

I mean, otherwise, no distributor in town is gonna pick them up and do the legwork. They have to do the legwork by getting in touch with independents. Because the distributors' books are a mile long. And everyone's got a craft or legacy, and salespeople don't want to do the work to educate.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

That's why I thought it was amazing when good times went with General Beverage as their distributor. I was like, you're gonna be a small fish in a big pond with with the legacy distilleries that they have on their books already. It's like I don't think you're gonna, it's just I think you're gonna get ate up up here. You're not gonna get the the you're not gonna get the the love you need to have to make that go well here.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

I think everyone wants to be Penelope. True. That's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Everybody wants to be Penelope. Yes. Don't we all want to be Penelope? You know. So a story I was telling you all before before we started the podcast, I was gonna bring up as a uh non-bourbon related topic. My uh my nanny, my summer nanny, we have we pay a woman hourly to come to our houses and watch the kids in the summer because we both work. She's been making uh mac and cheese at my house for the kids, and then she leaves the pot with mac and cheese still in it, and leaves the plates in the sink with mac and cheese still in them. Am I crazy to think that's wild behavior when you're paying somebody $20, $22 an hour to do this thing? Because my ex-wife believes it's not wild behavior, but she thought it wasn't that big a deal. I thought it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

Is Abby a listener?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

I don't think so. Let's hope, let's hope not.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

So is this craft mac and cheese or from scratch?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

This is craft.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Well, she doesn't she's making if she was making scratch, I'd be okay with it.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Because I'd eat it later.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Double macaroni, sharp cheddar. If she was making a big, maybe nothing left in the pot.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

If she's making a roux and then making mac and cheese, I'm cool with it. This is craft box mac and cheese. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

I mean, did you guys have ever have that conversation what nannying means? Or what she does for nannying?

SPEAKER_00 16:09

No, we didn't have that conversation. But to my point I made earlier, to me, that's common sense because I have manners. I thought everybody was born with where grew up with manners, and you go to somebody else's house, you clean up your own shit.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Well, she's clearly saying for this much money, this is the amount of work I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

$22 an hour, you're gonna let my kids eat all the fucking chips.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

That's literally what she's saying.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Drink all my poppies, and I I got home the other day.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

You do the cleaning.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

There were bags of there were empty bags of chips on the floor.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Yeah, it's it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

There were poppy bags, poppy cans, they drank all my poppies. I was like, these are What's a poppy? Probiotic sodas.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

They're like three for five dollars.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

And I let them have one per day. And they drank like eight of them.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

That's when I was gone. Did they shit for the house?

SPEAKER_00 17:00

I'm not sure they were at their mom's house that late. Like if they would have shit at my house, they would have used all my toilet papers.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

That'd be a fun day. You got three poppies?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

I'm fairly sure they wrap themselves like a mummy in toilet paper before they wipe their asses, and then put it all in the toilet at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

That's funny. I think we should have a conversation with the nanny.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Okay. What do you think? Yeah, I guess. But do you think it's crazy for her to do that in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I mean, I would the first time I see it, I'm like, I'm sorry, but this is not the expectation.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

We expect like you take care of this because you ate with them too, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

I shouldn't have to come home and make and clean up.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

I completely get it. Um taking care of children means taking care of all their mess also and making it.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

That's what I thought was a assumed thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

I think you guys are being really rough on her. She's just trying to make it in this world. And you guys are like a lady trying to find a nut. That's right. And she's gotta make she's gotta make mac and cheese. I mean, that's like a lot of mental anguish in itself.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

She's gotta put water in the pot, let the water boil.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah, and then she's gotta like Exactly cook noodles. Cooked noodles are that's not part of the craft company could simplify it a little more.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

And also they could create a product that doesn't stick to pans and pots.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

I was gonna say, I remember when I would have leftovers, which was never, that the leftovers would like homogenize into this like peelable rubber thing.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

That you could the mac and cheese. It does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah, getting it down your uh uh garbage disposal is not a fun task either.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

You should I know what you should do. You should passive aggressively buy Tupperware and prominently display it so that she's like, oh, I'm done eating and there's leftover in the pot, I'll put it in the Tupperware.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Oh, before she comes over every time I say, I washed the pot today. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

And the plates. You can take that. If you need them, they're there.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

I've provided you with clean silverware. Yeah, hang signs everywhere in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

I have told her multiple times like I did dishes, they're in the dishwasher. If you need them, that's where they're at.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

You should put little passive aggressive signs all over your kitchen like it's an Airbnb.

unknown 19:19

No.