Bourbon Boyz
Bourbon Boyz
Ep 244 - When Does Bourbon STOP being Bourbon
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Brandon, Ryan, and I discuss the finishing craze and its impact on the industry as a whole.
Welcome to Bourbon Boys. Back again. Back again like I never left. Like we never left. I'm here with Brandon Showtime.
SPEAKER_06What's going on?
SPEAKER_04And we're here with Ryan, the producer.
SPEAKER_06Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_04And he's got the topic this week that we're going to go over.
SPEAKER_05So our topic for this week is when does bourbon stop being bourbon? Pretty much kind of jumping into essentially finishes. As of lately, there's been a lot of releases going off from a lot of distilleries, whether that's small or big, uh, with a lot of different finishes, a lot of um what mezzanara finishes, French Oaks, Amberanas. Uh one of the biggest ones recently being the new Angels Envy rye that's finished uh in a stout and Amburana barrel. Gross. That just sounds gross. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Sorry, I guess I shouldn't have said that.
SPEAKER_05No, that early sounds like dark cinnamon beer to me. It sounds horrible. It does not sound pleasant by any means. Uh, just based off some of the reviews that I have heard so far, it's surprisingly pretty pleasant.
SPEAKER_06All right.
SPEAKER_05But we don't have a sample, so we can't uh we can't really say whether it's good or not. It just gotta take the word.
SPEAKER_04I never thought I'd see the day that four roses would do a finished whiskey. And we're here. Yes. It's the end of days, I think.
SPEAKER_05And we're we're already into their second their their second series. Yeah, what are we doing?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, what's the next one? It didn't miss it next the first time. They got another one. Oh, honey.
SPEAKER_05It's a honey finish, of course. Which I mean, uh at I I would expect it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's easy. I I would expect it. Honey ties into some of their profiles. I could you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_05I could see especially with a lot of their profiles being floral. That's right, right? Like I think it goes a lot of four roses, very floral, uh, no matter what yeast you're using or what.
SPEAKER_06You guys drink a lot of four. You drink a lot of four roses?
SPEAKER_05Uh I'm a big fan of four roses single barrels. Sure. I used to do it before they raised the price.
SPEAKER_06Actually, regular single barrels I'm seeing out for like $49.99 right now. Not picks. Not the picks, but like the regular single bars. Yeah, like the Hunterproof or single. That's not a bad thing. That's always the way it's but you know, like that's a good thing. That's not bad. I don't drink a ton of four roses, but they're I mean, I couldn't tell you which profile I like best, but like I kind of like that, like you were talking about that red fruit, that kind of stuff. The four roses like that's more. O's or Vs, probably then.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yep. I I'm I'm personally I'm a big fan of the OES K's and the OES Vs.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_05I like to get it as funky as I possibly can.
SPEAKER_04So I do K's or Q's.
SPEAKER_06And that's more what?
SPEAKER_04It's more floral, minty to a certain extent. Okay. But you get a lot of like real. I mean there's a lot of there's a a basic thing they put out there that's like uh what what you can expect, but you can get a lot of offshoots from it. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_05A lot. I mean, that that's the magic of single bags.
SPEAKER_04And like ESOs are ones that are like everybody loves OES and OESOs because it's so fruity and berry, and those are good.
SPEAKER_05Good, right. I I like the more uh oakier kind of cinnamon bomb ones. And I I believe those are typically the K's.
SPEAKER_04The first one I did was a Q, and it was fantastically strange.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I mean, well, that's like like I said though, that's that's the beauty of single barrels. They can they can give you, they can feed you a profile all they want of what it is supposed to be, but it's what you get out of it. Right. Is it good? Is it what are we drinking? Uh so what we're drinking today uh is a conviction double oak pick. This is from a couple of good buddies of mine. Uh they picked this barrel. This is a seven-year pick, I would I want to say, I'm pretty positive. Um this is from a distillery down in North Carolina. Uh they do a bunch of different things. They're pretty big on their double oaks.
SPEAKER_06Are they sourcing or they're making their own juice? Okay. Yep.
SPEAKER_05Uh distilled, bottled, uh aged everything by them.
SPEAKER_06And Conviction's the name of the distillery, or is it like the label? Yep.
SPEAKER_05Conviction is the name of the distillery.
SPEAKER_06What's the proof on this thing?
SPEAKER_05Uh, proof on this is only at 104.6. Okay. So you might as well round up, just call it 105.
SPEAKER_04These are your friends that picked this?
SPEAKER_05Yes. Uh, so I watched this couple, they go by the name Bourbon Theory. Uh uh, I'll I'll give them a shout-out. Uh Bourbon Theory on all platforms. Uh, it's a father and son channel. Nice. Uh they do a bunch of different reviews and so forth uh on YouTube. Um, shout out to those guys. Yep. Met up with the with the dad Bill a while back ago. Uh he's got family up here in more northern Wisconsin. So he was up here around 4th of July time. Uh brought him over to IRAs for an evening, typical Wednesday night. And uh by the time he left, he ended up giving me one of these. Very nice. And uh I've thoroughly enjoyed it ever since.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_05This is uh, you know, sticking with the theme of the the topic tonight being finishes. This is about the most basic finish you can get from any distillery on the market currently, just a standard double oak.
SPEAKER_06Which is cool for me because that's my favorite. Double oak's my favorite if we're gonna finish anything. Double oak is what I would lean into. Because I prefer oaky. Like I like a heavy oak.
SPEAKER_05You can still get heavy oak from other finishes.
SPEAKER_06I agree, I agree.
SPEAKER_05But consistently that I like for your profile, but just a basic double oak, absolutely. No, I I I I totally get it. Uh, me personally, I don't own a lot of finished products, but the few that I do, uh, I do enjoy. Um my favorite finished product, I would probably have to say, would be a good French oak.
SPEAKER_06There have been some French oaks I liked, but I have liked a couple.
SPEAKER_05Uh yeah, there's some some about that French oak process that I I just thoroughly enjoy quite a bit. Uh the profile that you get off of it. Uh whether it's the nose or the profile in general, the taste.
SPEAKER_04Do you know what the double oak is on this?
SPEAKER_05I do not. As in like what the secondary barrel is, uh, I unfortunately do not. Uh yeah, that's something I generally.
SPEAKER_04Generally speaking, I don't love double oak stuff. Okay. This one's got a little bit of a hay thing going on, earthiness that doesn't jive with me personally. Okay.
SPEAKER_06I kind of like that in there.
SPEAKER_05See, now see, this is gonna be something, in my opinion, this is kind of similar to Detling. So I I could understand why you're not gonna like this. This definitely has a craftiness to it. Uh the juice is a little bit older. Like I said, it's only uh between six and seven years old. I I do want to say it is on that seven-year-old side. Um but yeah, there there is a very craftiness behind it. Um I wonder if it's pot or column stilled. That's something I am not a hundred percent sure of it. Because that means a lot. Because it's got a lot of I can find out rough edges.
SPEAKER_04Yep. Column still seen tends to be cleaner. See, I like this. I can drink this. It would not be my jam. Which is fair. I'm trying to be as nice as I possibly can.
SPEAKER_06And you're not usually a double oak guy.
SPEAKER_04I'm not. Double oak tends to have a especially certain oaks, tend to give it a flavor profile that tastes younger to me. Uh, which I don't toasted stuff most of the time. Gives off a younger flavor to me personally, so I I tend to stray away from those. Although we did pick a great double oak from Old Louisville this year.
SPEAKER_06I was saying double oak is usually my favorite of those. Um I do like dark arts. Uh, was it Mizanara? The Japanese wood. Like the heat, I thought they did a great job. That one was pretty good.
SPEAKER_04See, my problem with finishing as a whole, like as we're as the topic we're talking about, I feel like a lot of people take bad whiskey.
SPEAKER_06I think that's why.
SPEAKER_04Slap lipstick on it. Like, why did you need to change the flavor? Right? There's a reason why you didn't just put this out in a single barrel or a batch thing.
SPEAKER_06Right. And it's because you got Which I get. I I mean if you gotta save it, you gotta save it, but you know.
SPEAKER_05So they are a pot distilled. That makes sense. I get it then. Yeah. You definitely get that craftiness, that punk. Yep. I mean, but see, to me, I like that. I enjoy that. And I I don't enjoy that on all whiskeys, uh, whether it be bourbon or rye, but there are certain ones that I do really enjoy. This being one of them, Deadly being another one of them. Um, they're just there there's something about it. You you typically get a lot of those like chocolate uh malty kind of grain forward notes.
SPEAKER_04I personally would say my flavor uh problems and my dislike for this is very distinctly different than what I don't like about detling.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_04I think detling the malty chocolatey thing is very different than this has more of an earthiness. Sure. I don't think there's as much earthy with that, but if it's pot-stilled, I don't like like Blond Brothers stuff most of the time. I love Blond Brothers and whatever thing they do down there, but their pot-stilled stuff just doesn't agree with my palette most of the time. It's just very earthy stuff.
SPEAKER_05Pot still can be very hit or miss for a lot of people. It's just not my thing. Yeah. And see, unfortunately, I'm a smoker, I've been a smoker for a long time, so my palate's gonna be complete. Midnight smoker. I mean, I yes. Oh, yes. Uh my palate's gonna be significantly different from a lot of people. Um, you know, so what I may get off of a glass, you may not get. But my profile can also be altered because of the fact I do smoke.
SPEAKER_04You mean smoke? Change your own. Cigarettes.
SPEAKER_05Yes. Smoking, anything will change your alter your uh profile no matter what it is.
SPEAKER_04I had a couple cigarettes at Willie Nelson.
SPEAKER_05I think that's only right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Got to. You gotta pay respects.
SPEAKER_04I wish I had a cigar. That would have been nice.
SPEAKER_06You're a cigar guy.
SPEAKER_04I am a cigar guy.
SPEAKER_06What do you like to smoke? Huh? What do you like to smoke?
SPEAKER_04Uh most time with Fuentes or uh The Judge. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06That's my go-to. I'm a Rocky Patel guy. I usually Rocky Patel. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Rocky Patel's good. Yeah. Thank you.
SPEAKER_06I honestly I like a little more mild. I do too. I like a little mild cigar.
SPEAKER_04I pre I prefer a shorter, uh, a shorter cigar to because I don't want a full, I'm not trying to sit down and have a full two-hour smoke sesh.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I don't want no dog turret in my mouth. No. Like, I don't need all that.
SPEAKER_04I've had some that tasted like smoking chicken bones. Yep. But that's not good. It's not a good experience. No.
SPEAKER_06No.
SPEAKER_04So the second thing we've corn is uh maple finished.
SPEAKER_06Maple is easily one of my least favorite flavors.
SPEAKER_04Maple finished uh Starlight that I picked. Okay, here we go. 105 proof. Maple's one of your least favorite? Wow. I just don't like the flavor. You like honey? I don't like honey. Oh, you don't like the honey finished stuff?
SPEAKER_06No. No, this is not my jam. Like drinking breakfast. Um sorry, Canada. This is really not my thing. Or uh what is it, uh, New Hampshire? Who has all the maple syrup? I'd be Canada. And I mean, I know Canada's a big dog, but we should be eating the US.
SPEAKER_04Whatever.
SPEAKER_06Can I have the cat back then? Like I heard cat, and I'm like, I do not have a cat with me. Cat. No cat.
SPEAKER_05So you're telling me if I buy a bunch of uh certain product and finish it myself in a maple barrel, you're not gonna want one?
SPEAKER_06I won't want one. I'll get one, but I won't want one.
SPEAKER_04This is a big difference. What George Cheese Stag or uh not George Cheese Stag, George uh Stag Jr. or what everybody else does.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, they love that.
SPEAKER_04Eagle Rare, Stag, Weller.
SPEAKER_06One of the uh a bourbon group in uh Texas is gonna do a uh big red finished bourbon. The soda? Somebody aged big red? Well, they had syrup in a barrel, right? And so then they took big red syrup, put it in a barrel, and then dried the barrel out and then refilled it.
SPEAKER_04I'm not sure how much of a that's gonna be interesting.
SPEAKER_05That's interesting, right?
SPEAKER_06Because that's real sweet, real sugary.
SPEAKER_04I'm not sure how much of a uh uh what's gonna be left in the barrel just from putting it.
SPEAKER_06I don't know how long they let it age and stuff. Like, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04Like to soak into that and I mean that's something you have to like let it sit for a while. You can't just let it roll. Right.
SPEAKER_06I would assume, I would assume it's separate.
SPEAKER_05I mean that's a very concentrated flavor though, if it's in syrup form. Right.
SPEAKER_04So now you're thinking is it the barrel that's doing it or the concentrated syrup that's left over?
SPEAKER_05I think they're at that point with that with that kind of a well, like with with finishing it like that, it's definitely gonna be influenced by the syrup heavily. I think that's what they're trying to do.
SPEAKER_04Are you talking about wet barrels? Are we talking about wet barrels?
SPEAKER_05I mean wet wet or dry at that point when you're using something like that.
SPEAKER_06I think it's it's I think that's so sweet that it would just be. Like this starlight's like they do good stuff, and like even for a maple, I would say this is probably a good maple because it's subtle and but flavor-wise, not for me.
SPEAKER_05It is very subtle. I used to do like it's not heavy.
SPEAKER_04Three starlights a year. And then I'd have stopped going because I couldn't sell them. So now I have tons of starlight in my house.
SPEAKER_05I've never been a big starlight guy personally.
SPEAKER_06You know what I mean? Like to me, they're one of those, like when I see them, like there's so many labels. Yeah. Oh yeah, there's a ton of different things. I'm not reading all that stuff.
SPEAKER_04They put too much stuff out right at once. That's when they just flooded the market.
SPEAKER_06Right. Alright.
SPEAKER_05What else we got? So yeah, I mean, essentially with you know, sticking with the thing with finishing is uh are distilleries getting increasingly creative with secondary maturations, or are we just seeing the same thing over and over and over again? From which one to the next.
SPEAKER_06I think we're seeing a lot of different stuff, which is fun. Uh like we talked about before, like Dark Arts is they did they finished what was it, 1918, you said? 19, I think. 19 years, like people are losing their minds. People are losing their minds.
SPEAKER_05I mean, you look at you let uh look at NDPs also like uh Barrel. Barrel does an absurd amount of finishing.
SPEAKER_04I thought Barrel was on its last legs and it was gone, it was done, and then they just come back.
SPEAKER_05Mm-hmm. I thought they were sold to somebody else. They just didn't, I mean, or they not just did, but uh one of the most recent products I remember seeing from them as far as finishing goes, I think it was like what, like a 20-year-old light whiskey, but it was finished in like uh like two or three different barrels, and it was hazmat. You know, like there's there's a lot of places out there that are doing crazy things when it comes to finishing, but then at the same time, is it anything that's actually selling? Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04To me, I have I'm in a very weird place when it comes to finishing. I get real weirded out at the fact that they're taking, I think, probably not great whiskey and putting it in there and trying to finish it and sell it to people and tatering it out and doing all these things. Yep. But then I think there are other places like Onyx and Amber that does a really good job. They do it very subtle, they do it very small, they don't do a ton of them. I mean, if you do them one-offs, I think it's good.
SPEAKER_06I like, but if your whole world is based off finished stuff, I think coming back to Buffalo Trace, like their single oak project, the way they do that, I think makes a lot of sense. And I think that's fun. You're getting a 375, they're trying something different.
SPEAKER_04That's not finished though.
SPEAKER_06No, I get that. I'm just thinking of different stuff. Like they're trying, they're trying different stuff, so I think that's the way you do it. Kind of like trying different oaks with that one-off stuff. I think this that stuff is then more interesting to me.
SPEAKER_05If it's if it's a mass-produced, then like I'm I will say that's what I do like about uh dark arts and what they're gonna be doing now with their new packaging. They're offering 375s and 750s of a lot of their like core products.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it makes sense.
SPEAKER_05Um in my opinion, I I think that's really good for marketing. Uh, because then it allows people to actually try your product without paying full price and getting sucked into it, and then next thing you know, you're 70, 80 to $100 into a full bottle. Correct. You crack it, try it, and you're like, this is a drain pour.
SPEAKER_06I like this. It also allows you to get through more stuff. Like you know what I mean? So you can try more stuff.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. I wish there were a lot more distilleries that would put out, especially when it comes to their experimental stuff.
SPEAKER_06Exactly.
SPEAKER_05I'm rather, you know, rather be expend uh experimental or just their typical finishing lines, put it out in smaller yeah, much more into that.
SPEAKER_06Badges. Right?
SPEAKER_05I'd be much more than a smaller, or not smaller batches, but you know, smaller, smaller uh bottlings. Uh so then when somebody doesn't like it, they're not heavily invested right into the full amount of what a 750 would cost or a 700. Do you buy you you don't buy a lot of finished product? No, no. You don't either. When it comes to finished products, I get that.
SPEAKER_06But you don't you don't when you do picks, you don't usually pick finished.
SPEAKER_04I don't want to hear Dan Pieper's mouth when I picks out finished. Oh, you picking that finished shit.
SPEAKER_05I hey man, if it shout out to Peeper.
SPEAKER_04If it tastes good, it tastes good. I'm like, dude, you work at bourbon 30. Yeah, everything you put out is finished. The same thing I tell him, but he, why are you drinking all them chemicals? You're chasing your whiskey with Dot Mountain Dew.
SPEAKER_06Uh that's like a preservative, I think. He's preserving himself.
SPEAKER_05Good old yellow die number seven.
SPEAKER_06Right. The beeping just went off.
SPEAKER_05No, again.
SPEAKER_06It's gonna come back.
SPEAKER_05Mind you, this beeping we're hearing is not a fire uh alarm or something.
SPEAKER_06We believe it is we think it's a kid's toy. Probably a kid's toy. Somebody stashed something and it's beeping, it's probably on its last leg. It's probably a watch or something down there. Fun times.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, kids. Kids. At least I don't have to worry about my fourth nanny this summer. Fourth? Yeah.
unknownDamn.
SPEAKER_04Well, the first one had a medical procedure, so she couldn't lift the kids anymore. Which was good because she wasn't cleaning the mac and cheese pots when she came over.
SPEAKER_05What do they need lifted for to begin with? That was my next question. They're all damn near grown-ass kids. Grown-ass kids.
SPEAKER_04They can all grown-ass kid walk her ass kids. She had hernia, so she couldn't she couldn't watch them anymore. The second one, her uh her abuela went to uh rehab, so she had to go watch she had to go watch her cousins.
SPEAKER_05That's understandable. Family before everything.
SPEAKER_04Um Yeah, the last one we had. She washed your pots and pans. We might have to talk about pre-hearing processes.
SPEAKER_05But that was that was about it. We might have to talk about hiring processes. She did a good job with them.
SPEAKER_04The second one was uh like 20 and she would fall asleep with them. She'd be laying here and she'd fall asleep. I mean, as long as they're asleep before she goes. She was they weren't asleep. They were awake. No, they're not sleeping. Are you kidding me? I was paying her $20 an hour to take naps at my house.
SPEAKER_06Could you?
unknownI mean.
SPEAKER_06We should have a nanny tryout. We should like post about it and like have people come try out. And like have voting panels. Like having interns we get. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_04I have a I listen to a podcast. Put them situations. Rapid sessions of interviews. Yes. I listen to a podcast. Intern Olympics every year. Yeah. So they put interns to uh various podcasts is called Legion of Skanks, so it's That sounds like a Chad Huffman spectrum. That's a c'est a comedy podcast.
SPEAKER_06I can see it. Well, I hope it's nonfiction. You know, I hope it's not a nonfiction pod like Maple is definitely not up there for me as finishes.
SPEAKER_05Okay. I guess it's hit or miss because like I've I've had some maple finishes like uh Jack. Sure. Jack did their their well no, I can't even say it was a uh maple finish, it was just table syrup. Yeah, it was a table syrup finish. Didn't like it. I thought it was I mean it's Jack. Yeah, I get it, but I still didn't like it. I enjoy it quite a bit. But uh I can't say that I've had too many maple finishes, yeah.
SPEAKER_04I did not like the Jack new uh Angel Share the high the high angel share.
SPEAKER_06No, no, tell me more.
SPEAKER_04I had it at uh uh a bottle share last weekend it to me. It just tasted like it was almost like uh uh tire rubber. Really? It was so uh abrasive.
SPEAKER_06Huh.
SPEAKER_05It is pretty, it is up there improved too.
SPEAKER_04It's like almost 140, I think.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's up there. I love jack. Yeah, I was just saying, so it's uh for you. I was very upset.
SPEAKER_05And that's that's hard that because I've heard a lot of people praising it too. But at the same time, are we?
SPEAKER_04I've heard I listened to two podcasts on the way home. I thought you were gonna say Tupac for Matt MashUp Podcast and uh Bourbon Barrel Talk. And they both were mashup said pass, and all of them said pass. Uh Bourbon Barrel Talk seemed to have a little better, but I think a lot of those podcasts try to be as nice as they can be. They don't want to shit on anything, which is uh not what I'm about. I'm always about shitting on things if it needs to be shit on. Clearly.
SPEAKER_05What is this? Uh besides barrel whiskey. So, yeah, this is a barrel pick. Um this is a Madeira finish. So I'm pretty confident this is just an American whiskey finished in Madeira barrels. Um, there's nothing on it that states What do you know about Madeira? Not a lot. Not a lot at all. Uh I know it's a wine. Obviously, majority of the finishes that happen are X-wine barrels of some sort or X wine casts.
SPEAKER_04Isn't that a character that uh Tyler Perry does?
SPEAKER_05Made Madea. Madea. Yeah, that is Madea.
SPEAKER_06Like where your head's at, big dog. That's pretty close. You were close, you were damn close. You watch it. Damn close. You're watching a lot of Madea, are you? Huh? You watch a lot of Madea. I've seen some Madea.
SPEAKER_05So yeah, there's there's a lot of fruitiness on this. It's very sweet. Even for a light whiskey. Oh, very sweet. For for what I believe it to be just a light whiskey finished in Madeira barrels or cask. It's uh it's pretty palatable, in my opinion. It's one of the better uh finishes of any sort that I've had, whether it be rye, bourbon, or I guess light whiskey. There's not there's not a ton to the nose like you get. For me personally, I get kind of like some some apricot. It's very stringent to me. That's probably the light whiskey.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_05Because you don't you don't get a ton of like bourbon characteristics. Yeah, I'll say this is or a lot of barrel influence. Right, yeah, this is very weird to me. Like it's it's light on the palate, it's fruity, uh, it's sweet.
SPEAKER_04Not that it's a huge accomplishment, but you can blindfold me and put nose plugs in me, and I would still be able to pick a light whiskey out of a lineup.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. But at the same time, I mean it's 123 proof. Uh so I mean, but for a light whiskey, I hope it has some proof behind it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, Gene Nasmith at Cat's Eye still thinks light whiskey is the next uh the next big thing. Of course he thinks Dickle's the next big thing, too. That would be an interesting take.
SPEAKER_05From what I've heard, some of the best rye on the market was some dickle barrels.
SPEAKER_04I mean, I could see their rye being okay. I haven't had a lot of it.
SPEAKER_05Because it's extremely limited. They did a very short, short run of it and never did it again.
SPEAKER_04But the rye, the rye would be it's not using the same grains they use for bourbon. The bourbon has a very distinct profile. It's very off-putting to certain people.
SPEAKER_05It is. The only deco barrels that I've ever cared for, typically around like 16 years or older. They gotta be older. Yeah. Yeah. That's when that minerality really starts to fade off. But then at the same time, yeah. At the same time, I really wish you could get them at like a true cast strength because they're always watered down. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, they're excuse me. They're not if you get them in an NDP. A lot of NDPs have dickle. Okay. You can get cast strength there. It doesn't really change though, to be honest with you. Even at cast strength, it's not, it's still you get that huge minerally Flintstones vitamin E vibe to it.
SPEAKER_06I don't I don't know if I've ever owned a bottle of Dickle.
SPEAKER_05I've never owned any. I've tried a few as far as like single barrels go. And so some of the single barrels that I've had have been really, really good. Woodman's did a really good one that was 15 or 16 years, like two years ago. And what what what drives me crazy to a Dickle is the fact that they have a standard like 15-year-old that's a shelf product and it's like $250.
SPEAKER_06No.
SPEAKER_05Or you can buy a single barrel, like a single barrel pick from some group or somewhere, and it'd be 90 bucks. Isn't that wild? Yeah. It's probably not a good business. And it'd be at least minimum of like 16 years. Right.
SPEAKER_04The dickle bourbon they put out a couple years ago was actually pretty decent. It was. I think it was like seven or eight years old. Okay.
SPEAKER_06And the minerality wasn't crazy.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05Who knows? Maybe it could be, you know, maybe it could be somebody to watch out for. They I I mean, obviously, they they've got to know that they have not been a popular distillery for a lot of people for quite some time. I think they are, but I think you would expect for them to make changes to either niche.
SPEAKER_06Tennessee drinks a lot of dickle. That is like when you're in Tennessee, there's a big on jack and dickle and jack and dickle.
SPEAKER_05Big, big on jack and dickle.
SPEAKER_06So I don't think it's gonna blow up in Wisconsin, but maybe in the southeast and that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_04I think their their problem is do they move away from their their home um market and like their home who loves them now to try to get you a broader audience. But if you're making enough now, why do you move? That's it, right? That's very true.
SPEAKER_06And that's a hard choice to make, right? Like do we do we risk it when we're good?
SPEAKER_04Or open it up and they did that bourbon, so maybe they're trying to reach out, but they haven't done it a whole lot.
SPEAKER_06No, especially with distilleries and uh producers, I I would go as slowly as I could.
SPEAKER_05I have a different stuff, like I think it takes time to get uh what one of the second, third, or fourth oldest. Like legacy brand for sure. Yeah, come out.
SPEAKER_06Definitely in the conversation, yeah, definitely in the conversation. Obviously, especially when you talk like American whiskey, like they're absolutely in the conversation.
SPEAKER_05Dickle's been around for a very long time. Mm-hmm. Now you have what Tennessee distilling.
SPEAKER_06But guys that drink Dickle, like they love it. Yeah. Like they swear by it. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So to you know, teach their own.
SPEAKER_04Somebody tried to give me an artist in spirits distilled whiskey. You know what artists in spirits is? Nope. Uh at Old Louisville last week. He was like, I'll try this.
SPEAKER_06It's good. Nope. Are they finishing anything at Old Louisville? Finishing like anything they're bringing in. Like they're bringing barrels in, right? Like he's got some finished barrels. He's doing some finishing bars. He's got double oaks. Like he's doing it himself in house, is what I'm saying. Okay, all right. He's got five heart to do that.
SPEAKER_05I can't say I've seen anything finished coming out of Old Louisville. He's put a few things out. There's been some double oaks for sure. Well, I mean double oak. Double yes, yes. Double oaks, yes, absolutely. There's been other things too. Yeah. You gotta remember, like, double oak is the bottom of finishing, so I don't what as soon as I hear double oak, I don't think finished.
SPEAKER_04I just he's done some wine finish, he's done some Colombian oaks, he's done a lot of different things.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_06I do think we'll see more of that kind of stuff, like different woods and oak. Right, exactly. That sounds see rich. I was excited.
SPEAKER_05Rich. It sounds rich, just rich, like rich and deep in flavored.
SPEAKER_04No, it's just got full of cocaine. I mean, I hope so.
SPEAKER_06That's rich, alright. Uh even you think like Black Forest, like in Germany and stuff, you get some of that wood. Like there's all kinds of stuff. Like you could.
SPEAKER_05Well, and I I think too though, when it comes to finishing, I feel like we're we're so extremely hard set on these traditional X wine casks or wine barrels or whatever.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I haven't really found like port wine, you know, like the.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like well, port, Madeira, uh forgive me, I'm not a wine person.
SPEAKER_04You try to try that port I had in the basement, didn't you? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06A lot of the port is if you liked it, it comes across very dry to me. Yes. And that that's right, like it sucks all the air out of your mouth, and like that, then I'm out. Like I don't like that.
SPEAKER_05Do you like cabin strength at all?
SPEAKER_06Somewhat. Like I've liked some of the stuff they've done, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, I mean, like their cabin strength the cabin strength. Strength, right, correct. Yep, they're they're high-proof cabin strength. That's delicious, and that's that's port finished. Those are uh the picks?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, not all of them are port strength. Not all of them, right.
SPEAKER_06I've had some that aren't porn. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well the ones I the one I did was uh finished in toasted barrels.
SPEAKER_05Oh every oh I'm pretty sure all their barrels are well, all of their barrels are double oak. Yes, all the picks are double oak. All of their juice is double oak.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, probably. But the picks, I know that they used to do four years in the first uh barrel and then they do four, three, four years in the double oak and yeah, because I I think their their typical age is only like six to seven.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Six out. So what do you guys think about this barrel, even though obviously it's a it's a light whiskey finish?
SPEAKER_04My my whole thing about light whiskey is it's it's unassuming. It has the same flavor profile every time. Which is not bad. It's good.
SPEAKER_05It's a lot of corn typically.
SPEAKER_04It's the same, it's same like liquid candy bar. Yep. You can almost finish it in whatever the hell you want to it, and it still comes off with the same yes, you're still gonna be able to identify it. It's still gonna be liquid quicks to me.
SPEAKER_06That astringency, right? Like that high alcohol, like I it just comes, it just it's not even the alcohol content, it's just I feel like it punches me in the face. Like when I it's just a flavor profile that comes with every light whiskey that I've ever had.
SPEAKER_05I mean, but at the same time, there's certain places that do light whiskey really well compared to others. Who do you think does light whiskey better than anybody else?
SPEAKER_06Um trying to think who you are. You got um, I think of Penelope.
SPEAKER_05Uh uh a lot of the light whiskey on the market comes from older stock of Penelope to begin with. Or MGP. MGP, correct. A lot of it, a lot a lot of the light whiskey on the market currently is older seagrum stock. Um so to begin with, a lot of it obviously traces back to seagrum's or MGP, whatever the hell, Ross and Squib, whatever you want to go by. Uh but then at the same time, provenance or not even that's provenance, but you know, states that it's being aged in. I don't get me wrong, if you get say uh 16-year-old barrel straight from NGP and they've had it and it was Seagram's distilled, they moved it, whatever. Uh where it's being aged at is gonna play a big role as well. Um it just it has a big influence on it. Uh as far as getting into all of that, uh one of my biggest and probably favorite aged light whiskey is probably gonna be Onyx and Amber.
SPEAKER_06I like them. Yeah, they've done some great stuff. Chad's picked some great stuff with them that I've liked a lot. Uh but they I think. They do have some good uh light whiskey for sure.
SPEAKER_05I I don't Calvados. I don't know if it's just those really cold winter months until those really warm, hot, sure, super dry summer, you know, summer months that it it comes out of Colorado.
SPEAKER_06But you have significant temperature changes. Yes, and then you're altitude, yes, and then all the altitude changes.
SPEAKER_04Well, you got Ben who knows his shit. He's been around the he's been around the block for a long time. Just a bit. Yeah, Ben's been around uh picking barrels for uh Colorado for a long time. This is bourbon finishing Calvados barrels that we picked from mid school a while back. I think it's five years old. That's another starlight pick, right? Yeah. For those who don't know, Calvados is a uh sweet wine, I believe. No, it's all it's all turns a sweet wine. Calvados might be also. That's a wine. Brandy shit. That's the thing about going to Starlight, they used to inundate you with so much whiskey that you just started picking barrels.
SPEAKER_06You definitely pick barrels there. So Calvados is a wine you said? I think so. Yep. Okay.
SPEAKER_04And we did YouTube there too.
SPEAKER_05We did the YouTube shit. Yeah, Calvados is primarily an apple wine or like an apple cider wine. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. That's what I was talking about. The uh a lot of it typically comes out of like Normandy or France.
SPEAKER_06I think this is better than the last one.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. Yeah, but this this blows that barrel uh light whiskey finish kind of out of the water.
SPEAKER_06A little more to it, a little more complex.
SPEAKER_05You like a lot of apple out of this.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And then it just kind of fades. It's right, it's nice. The finish is good out there.
SPEAKER_05Yes. Like it doesn't stick around for a long time, but it's varied.
SPEAKER_06Like, you know what I mean? Like the for the finish aspect, I think there's other things. How many picks did you do at Starlight?
SPEAKER_04Um seven?
SPEAKER_06Seven? Eight? Were they all finished?
SPEAKER_04No.
SPEAKER_06No.
SPEAKER_04We did some Rise, we did some bourbons. Do you do you feel their Rise better or their bourbon? Uh I feel like their bourbon was underrated.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_04Their Rise tended to get more uh tended to get more play.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_04Um some of the Risey picks from there were very good. Um some of the Risey picked there were excellent, actually. They were some of the best Rise I've had, early Rise.
SPEAKER_06Do you think I I feel the the Rye market is getting bigger? No. I feel more of my friends are like, yeah, I like this rye now.
SPEAKER_04I don't think the rye market's getting bigger. But I feel like the the people who love rye probably are getting more voracious about it. Um because I've got some people that in the group especially that will buy any rye you put out.
SPEAKER_06Right, like they're ride or die.
SPEAKER_04But they won't buy a bourbon. Or very rarely buy a bourbon. But the anytime you put a rye out, they're buying a rye. Interesting. Jimmy uh Jemez. Yeah. He's a rye guy. Jimmy J. Yep, he rye. Every time you put a rye out, that muff, he's on it.
SPEAKER_06Okay, well, I mean, if you like what you like, and I get it. My problem with some of the rye is that Christmas, the Christmas cookie. I ugh, like cinnamon.
SPEAKER_04It'd be dope for him to bring all those uh we could do it here, probably. All the dripless Glenn picks.
SPEAKER_06Those are fun, right?
SPEAKER_04And we just did them all side by side. In different ages.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, those are good. Those are good. I want to get up there and pick a 10-year-old rye. I'd love to do a 10-year rye with them.
SPEAKER_04I'd rather I'd love I'd rather do a nine and a half-year-old rye and pay half the price.
SPEAKER_06Sure. Sure. I respect it. 10 sounds cooler, though. For driftless. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So you know how concerned I am with how cool it sounds.
SPEAKER_06I know. I know.
SPEAKER_05Although it won't be the first, unfortunately. It'll be the best.
SPEAKER_04I like that story in Sussex that got the first 10-year-old and pulled that rug out.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, hats off to them.
SPEAKER_04The one he had when I tried it there that day, I was like, that's a good bourbon from Dreval's Glenn.
SPEAKER_05Well, I just stopped into what the hell was it? Is that Capital I just went to? I can't remember. Now I gotta look.
SPEAKER_04Capital liquor?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Okay. Hold on. I don't know if it was Capital. Now the beeping's just Yeah, it was Capital. Uh out in Brookfield. They 'cause they just got the Ben Holiday stuff, uh those ancient cave collections. Oh yeah, yeah. He was the one I went to for it. Uh because he posted on Facebook, so I ran out there and grabbed it the next day. But uh he has a driftless bourbon pick that's coming up, and I'm pretty sure it's either like 10 and a half or 11 years old. Perfect. Hands down one of these. Is that 11? Yeah. Nice. Hands down one of the best driftless bourbon barrels I've personally had to date.
SPEAKER_06I like the 10 a lot.
SPEAKER_05I'm not huge on the driftless bourbon. Yeah, I did that. I didn't love the 10, I definitely for me it's very hit or miss. Like I love driftless, dude. I love driftless rye. But they're the bourbons are hit or miss for me.
SPEAKER_04Um Justin gave it to me at cap at cast strength. Yeah. And I thought it was just so earthy. The one he gave me. I was just like, I can't.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I liked it better at a hunterproof, which is saying a wow. Correct.
SPEAKER_06Correct. It's definitely been hit or miss. I agree with that.
SPEAKER_05The rye, though, man. The ryes are just killer. I love the profile that dripless rye has.
SPEAKER_04It's very similar to uh uh Willetz Raz Anis, like very anise, cinnamon, yep.
SPEAKER_06Which I'm out on.
SPEAKER_05Black licorice.
SPEAKER_06You don't like anise? I like black licorice, but to me, it's a cinnamon. It's a cinnamon. I'd like a cinnamon.
SPEAKER_05It's like that red hot cinnamon that you get from Willets. Yeah, like bros. No.
SPEAKER_06I'm not chewing big red.
SPEAKER_05I'm not eating red hot. Like that's gross. Like what for me, driftless rye is probably like wouldn't you rather have a Werther's top of the rye? Wouldn't you have a Werthers and I'm I'm a big rye guy. I'd rather have a Werther's than a red hot.
SPEAKER_06I just went there.
SPEAKER_05I'm a big rye guy. I love that profile of rye.
SPEAKER_04Like just rye grain that that the profile it gives is just I had a three year old rye from uh uh drill school in before I moved up here. It was done by the wood guys in Kentucky.
SPEAKER_05Yep. Okay.
SPEAKER_04And I that was the first time I was like, oh shit, yeah, 3 0 rye can be good.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And it had that profile. And I was like, he gave it to me as he get the wood guy gave it to me as a bottle. Like sure. I did some charity stuff for him.
SPEAKER_06Oh nice.
SPEAKER_04And he gave it to me and I was like, oh, this is fucking amazing. And then I moved up here and I was like, okay, now go do this pick. Yes. It was one of the first like five podcasts I did when I was up here. Nice. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_05Even just their 51 rye, like a shelf, their shelf bottle that you can find just about anywhere. Even though it can be hard to find because it sells very fast for them. Um such a killer bottle. Such a killer crushable, like crushable bottle of rye. Like when whenever I go and I'm out and about and I find that for grab 40 bucks or under every single time. Or like if I can find it for under 40 bucks, I'll grab a case. Absolutely. Like it goes great neat or great in a cocktail. Either way, like you you can't go wrong with it. And it just it has that typical traditional rye characteristic from Dripless at a really good price. Their rye is very distinct. It's very distinct. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06Their ride is very distinct.
SPEAKER_04Alright, well, we're almost 45 minutes. Perfect. We're gonna cut it off here. I didn't mention the time at all this time, so Brandon cannot be upset at me this time.
SPEAKER_06Hey, let us know. Let us know. Do you like the extended version or do you like the 30 minutes? Like, what do you let us know what you think?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, take a vote down the down in the comments. Let us know.
SPEAKER_04Give us a review on Apple Podcasts.
SPEAKER_05Yes, leave us something. Let us know.
SPEAKER_04Google Play, whatever you want to do. There you go. Talk about Brandon's uh jerseys. Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_05If if there's anything also you guys want to hear or know about, let us know. Um best way for us to know what you guys want is for you for you to say something. There you go. If if you don't say none, we don't know.
SPEAKER_04So anybody got anything to say in closing?
SPEAKER_06Brandon. I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you everybody listening and the support's been great.
SPEAKER_04Follow me on Instagram and Ad sign S H O The number three T Y M. All all Follow Real Guy Loves Bourbon on what's your what's your shit on Instagram?
SPEAKER_05Just another bourbon guy.
SPEAKER_04Hey, I know something like that.
SPEAKER_05Yep, just another bourbon guy on Instagram. That's Ryan. Uh that's the only handle I have currently. That's probably the only handle I'm gonna have. So if you guys want to follow along, yeah, hit me up.
SPEAKER_04Follow Paul Paul Blart on uh Instagram. You shut the fuck up.
SPEAKER_06I'm just happy you ain't talking about me, so we're we're good to go.
SPEAKER_04Uh you can follow Bourbon Boys on uh Instagram, X, Twitter, all the fun stuff all the above. X, sorry, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, follow mythical barrels on Instagram, uh website mythical barrels.com. It is coming up, coming, coming soon. New barrels, uh new picks. So hit us up until next time. Enjoy your pours, enjoy your family.
SPEAKER_06Be safe.
SPEAKER_02Two battles, two stories, one love.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to bourbon boys, from the barrel to the backboard.
