Discover the unexpected costs and profound rewards of Independent Scientology practice as Quentin joins me to unravel the financial and spiritual tapestry of this intriguing path. From the allure of a simple book that leads down a rabbit hole of self-discovery to the robust investments tied to the Church's formal structure, our conversation spans the spectrum of personal commitment. Quentin's narrative provides a candid look at the economics of Scientology, comparing the price of enlightenment within the Church to the more approachable avenues of independent study. We tackle the controversies surrounding paying for spiritual services, the notion of fair exchange, and how these investments translate into transformative personal growth.
Imagine a world where spiritual guidance is as valued and fairly compensated as any professional service. That's the reality we dissect as we examine the intense dedication required for auditor training and the significance of equitable exchange in spiritual work. Our dialogue sheds light on the impactful outcomes of Scientology's practices, regardless of one's depth of belief, and the importance of actively engaging with its principles. We share stories of delivering services, the balance between free and paid resources, and how personal investment in courses like the 'Student Hat' can enhance one's life in unexpected ways.
Step into the realm of spiritual empowerment with us, as we celebrate the potential that free resources and knowledge access bring to those eager for growth. We highlight the transformative power of taking the first step with basic tools—a smartphone and internet connection—thanks to advancements like Starlink. As we discuss the journey through Scientology's Grade Chart, we emphasize that the true measure of investment isn't just financial but lies in the personal gains and the ability to help others. Join us for a conversation that blends the practicality of finances with the profound journey of spiritual development, and leave inspired to explore the value of your own path to enlightenment.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Discover the unexpected costs and profound rewards of Independent Scientology practice as Quentin joins me to unravel the financial and spiritual tapestry of this intriguing path. From the allure of a simple book that leads down a rabbit hole of self-discovery to the robust investments tied to the Church's formal structure, our conversation spans the spectrum of personal commitment. Quentin's narrative provides a candid look at the economics of Scientology, comparing the price of enlightenment within the Church to the more approachable avenues of independent study. We tackle the controversies surrounding paying for spiritual services, the notion of fair exchange, and how these investments translate into transformative personal growth.
Imagine a world where spiritual guidance is as valued and fairly compensated as any professional service. That's the reality we dissect as we examine the intense dedication required for auditor training and the significance of equitable exchange in spiritual work. Our dialogue sheds light on the impactful outcomes of Scientology's practices, regardless of one's depth of belief, and the importance of actively engaging with its principles. We share stories of delivering services, the balance between free and paid resources, and how personal investment in courses like the 'Student Hat' can enhance one's life in unexpected ways.
Step into the realm of spiritual empowerment with us, as we celebrate the potential that free resources and knowledge access bring to those eager for growth. We highlight the transformative power of taking the first step with basic tools—a smartphone and internet connection—thanks to advancements like Starlink. As we discuss the journey through Scientology's Grade Chart, we emphasize that the true measure of investment isn't just financial but lies in the personal gains and the ability to help others. Join us for a conversation that blends the practicality of finances with the profound journey of spiritual development, and leave inspired to explore the value of your own path to enlightenment.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Hey there, independent Scientologists. Discover a new perspective to your bridge by visiting aio-gporg. Get in session with remote auditing using the Theta Meter. Are you curious about where you stand? Head on over to aio-gporg now and take our free personality test. Join the growing group of independent Scientologists today.
Speaker 2:Hi and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast brought to you by the Advance Order of the Great Plains, aio-gporg. I'm here with Quentin Stroud. This is Season 7, episode 10. And this one is going to be how much does it cost to be a Scientologist? This should be an interesting episode for people, because it's not what you think and, of course, we're looking at this from an independent Scientology standpoint and rear view mirrors on what both of us have paid to be in the corporate church of Scientology versus what we've paid to be independent Scientologists. So we're going to start this off with Quentin's narrative on his experience and I'll give mine, and then we'll do some Q&A back and forth with each other and get the ball rolling. So, totally, when did you get started and how did expense enter into the equation for you, quentin?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so for me, I was 19 years old in Minneapolis, minnesota, just walking downtown Minneapolis, and I had heard of Scientology, of course, through various channels, celebrities or whatever, and when I saw it, I saw it before when I was in. No, that's not true. The first time I saw Scientology was actually in Minneapolis, and so I walked in and I took a personality test and I purchased the book A New Slant on Life. So that was my first spin. Oh, you know, I'm now in it, right, and I can't remember how much it was like. Maybe it was like $15, I guess, $10, $15 at the time, 2002. And yeah, and that was my first spin.
Speaker 3:And from there I did do a few courses, but I didn't do anything right away. I think I only did one course in Minneapolis and that was, I think, $35 at the time. So now I'm in for 45 bucks and that was my journey. And after that I didn't do anything in Scientology until 2006. So from 2002 to 2006, I had done one course and a book, read a book, and then I purchased Dianetics and this story kind of goes off from there. I will say, for me, I've always been an avid reader, I've always been a lover of knowledge and just in the process of buying books, and like that was very real to me, right, I could go to Books of Million and drop 100 books.
Speaker 3:Books of Million is a bookstore in. America.
Speaker 3:I could go to bars and over Books of Million and drop 100 books on books and have a wonderful time, and they were always typically self help. I wasn't really a big fiction reader, so nonfiction, self help was really my genre anyway. So it was an easy sale, if you will. If you want to say sale, it was an easy sale to me to buy a book called the New Slant on Life and it was an easy sale to me to sign up for a course and I think at the time, yeah, it was, it wasn't expensive at all and that's how I got started. So for 45 books for four years.
Speaker 2:And then you did the once you bought the Dianetics book. That's after that followed the, the auditing that you did. Co-audit, wise right.
Speaker 3:Correct. So when I moved down to Atlanta is when I met my friend Joseph, and when I met my friend he was an activist. I entogized at the Atlanta org and that's how we just started to a coming and he reintroduced me to Scientology because I had already known about it but had not been done anything for years. And then that's when I bought Dianetics. I did the and I got the DVD. I got the book in the DVD and read it. So now I'm in for about 100. And that was it. And I co-audited it for years on Dianetics book one co-auditing, and never once had to do anything. You know that I didn't want to do. I did do the PVNI personal values and integrities course. So it just kind of it kind of grew from there. But again, we're talking about over the span of like five years now and I'm only spent about 100 and you know 150 bucks and that's kind of how I started going in.
Speaker 2:And then that was it until you started doing services with AOGP. Is that right?
Speaker 3:Well, no, when I, when I really after PVNI, I had a lot of huge wins after you know, getting off some overs and withholds and just really like freeing that space up right. So I had personal wins off of going in court, going on course, and so that really really got me feeling very good about that. So going on course was my thing for from 2006, 2007, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, for eight years Is I was really really big on going on course, and so I would say I probably did a course every three months maybe, and that's like 50 books I'm talking about, like in the oral course, like 50 books every three months. So in a year I might spend, you know, 200 bucks in a year. Now, mind you, all the while I'm going to my church because I'm a, you know, christian minister, the whole thing, or whatever, and I was tithing 10% of my income to my church, which ended up being more I mean, I'm just saying problems of comparable magnitude. Right, I was, I was tithing 10% of my income to my church and spending 50 bucks every three months on, you know, getting courses and having market gainings, as I would do that.
Speaker 3:And so in 2015 is when I really started hitting my bridge activity really serious, like hardcore, and that's when I did HQS, and HQS was like 250. If I recall correctly, I think it was like 250 bucks. Robert, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, correct, yes, herbert qualified as an Scientologist course and it was a pretty thick course pack and you know it dealt with objectives. It dealt with, you know, a lot of theory and a lot of Academy stuff. So that felt really good because I felt like I was now like okay, I'm really going up. And then I did the Purif. Now, the Purif was my first big gulp and I gulp and I will say this I did gulp when I did the.
Speaker 2:Purif.
Speaker 3:And that was 1500. Yeah, that's right 1500, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 1500. I think it's going up since the 2500 now, but yeah, it was $1,500. And I was like Ali, I can work out for free, I mean I can just right, but that was my first big gulp. And lastly, before I left the corporate church, lastly, I did, me and my 2D, we did a marriage counseling, marriage counseling, and we bought two intensives of marriage counseling and that ended up being about 10,000. 5,000, 5,000. Yeah, I think it was about 10,000. But we definitely needed it because it was going to be a lot more expensive doing it, going a different route, and so we did. We did the marriage counseling for about 10 grand. It might have been a little cheaper than that because we also did a life repair, and so I didn't do the life repair my 2D did. So, yeah, it was probably under 10 grand for the marriage counseling itself, which is the only thing that I did.
Speaker 2:And five on your side of the ledger.
Speaker 3:Correct, right, yeah, we look at it that way. Yeah, so it'll be five and five. So now I'm in about the sea 5,000, 1,500, and then some courses for some years. So all in all, my whole span so far in corporate Scientology was probably about 10 grand total. Yeah, okay, yeah, and I can attribute much of my success to just reading the books, doing the courses and that whole thing, because that was really where I got most of my life skills right, which is what I think training is about.
Speaker 3:So you know how. So I got much of my life know how, from training and studying. And then with the co-order that we did, which is basically free, with my twin, with the co-order that we did, I got most of my gains mentally, emotionally, spiritually, if you will. I got most of my gains from the co-order, which was basically free for me. So I tell this story and I'm glad that you did this podcast because I there is a way to win and not feel like you have to be at a loss, if you will, to do it. And that's where I think that most people get kind of freaked out about is like, why is there a fee or a cost associated with one's spiritual progress and I was like but that's always been my life, I mean, it's you.
Speaker 2:It ain't nothing free.
Speaker 3:Right me being a churchgoer. I remember when I was a child my mom would hand us $25 to go and put me and my brother to go and put in the collection basket for church and she would hand us boom, boom, boom. And I remember looking at my mom's paychecks I got paychecks, w2, looking at my mom's W2 and seeing how much money she made in a year and it was a big deal that every single service and we did three a week, we went to service three times a week every single church service we went to, we would put money in the collection plate, you know, and so I can't even fathom how much you know compared to who it would be. But so far in corporate Scientology I'm in at about 10 grand.
Speaker 3:My entire books, all the books and lectures, all the books and lectures were actually given to me, were actually gifted to me, should I say so? I did not have to actually pay for those. A lady saw that I was really rocking and rolling on my bridge and I was a really good Scientologist, I was very studious and I was really excited. She was like you know what I got you and she ended up paying for my entire basic books and lectures.
Speaker 2:Yeah so that was pretty cool. So roughly 10,000.
Speaker 3:That's my story. Yeah, correct, okay, well, for me was it Over 22 years.
Speaker 2:Right, mine would be gosh 88, 98, 2008, 2008.
Speaker 3:Oh it was cheap like this. It was like a quarter, yeah, 2018.
Speaker 2:So that's 30, 35 years for me. And I got started after a breakup with a gal that I was living with, mother of my first daughter, and it was either go to Berkeley School of Music or get trained as an auditor and co-audit. And I decided that I wanted to get trained as an auditor and I went in and asked them about it and how much it would be, and my eyes got as big as saucers and I wasn't real savvy about loans and stuff like that. I'd only taken taken out one loan prior to that. So I just thought, geez, how am I going to do this? And so they said, well, you could be on staff and you get trained as an auditor. I'm like what? And I was 18 at the time, fresh out of high school, and 18 going on 19.
Speaker 2:And so I paid for the basic study course or basic study manual, and that was, I think, like 50 bucks or something like that. And I did that. And then they they talked me into joining staff. I signed the contract and I went back home to my mom and dad's, where I was staying temporarily, and my dad said we should have talked to me first, I would have gotten you a loan. You're shitting me. And it was already too late. So I was like, well, I guess I'm, I'm committed. I signed this, this agreement, this contract, and it was about a month later I went to flag.
Speaker 3:How long was your contract?
Speaker 2:It was five years, and it was five years, which is typical. It's five years after your training. So, depending on what kind of auditor training you're going to do, it could be, you know, six months. In my, my situation, it was six months and then, but somebody like John Nunez was with us on staff and he was a on staff on with AOGP. He was there right after I left for seven years. Seven years training because he fell in the golden age of tech release and was had to redo the briefing course, If you can believe that, which is a year, a year long course, 10 to 10 every day. So he did the briefing course twice, got lots of auditing, all that stuff. I have no idea what his bill was, but it was nothing compared to mine and so I was there I was.
Speaker 2:I was at flag and got my auditor training from a student hat. Student hat Well, it was actually pro TRs first, because pro TRs was first on the bridge at that time student hat. And then I was there, pro TRs, method one, co audit, oec zero, upper Indoch TRs Welcome to the flag internship course. And then Academy levels zero through four and I was student of the week six weeks in a row, nearly kicked out. I had up statistics. I had a lot of statistics with a C or remember, which I didn't know was prohibited.
Speaker 2:A few weeks later they called me in and we're going to kick me out and they said the qualk consultant said so what are you been doing? And I showed him my graph, which was in power, and my check sheet and my student of the week certificates that I got. And he took the routing tour and half through in the trash can and said keep your nose clean, get back on course. And I said I'm going to get back on course. There was some justice, some justice in 1988. I'm really proud of that and so my freeloader's debt when I left staff A little less than two years later, which?
Speaker 2:is a whole other story that we won't get into right now. But I said, see, I can't do this anymore. My freeloader's debt Was about $30,000. For my training Okay, training at flag, fast forward from 1990. To 1998, golden Age of Tech came out in 96. They were offering Specials to Anybody who paid off the freeloader's debt. Cause my debt was to the fight service organization, was not to my work, my work. I had other courses Staff status zero. Staff status one. Staff status two. Staff status one. Exec status two. Might have been something else in there and that was probably I don't know, it was a couple thousand. I think it was like $3,000, $3,300. I managed to pay off my auditor training to flag and I got it for $13,500. That's. That's how much it cost me in the church, 13,500. 1415, 16.
Speaker 3:Let's say that was that was that was the special, or that was what you paid to your local work. That was the special at flag.
Speaker 2:So all together I paid about $18,000 for all of my Auditor training, my admin training, everything, nice yeah. So that was a. That was a really good deal. And I did go to the ship and I did State of man Congress and that was, I think, five grand In 1998. So then you're looking at 20, 23,000. There. And then I did the uh ethic specialist course, which I think was 2,500. So that puts it at what 2627 and a half. And uh, then I did some of the golden age of tech stuff. The golden age of tech stuff, the golden age of tech, student hat courses. I didn't have to do the emeter course. And then I did the update To pro TRs with clay table training on it and that Was another 2,500 because I got half price rates Cause I was A class four auditor but paid through class five. So you had class five on to it About $33,000. Roughly, for all of the, that's your full total yeah In the church Right.
Speaker 2:Right. So, um, you know, and to me, yeah, all of that equaled a college education, and then some Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it's interesting because, you know, I always call Scientology the study of Scientology at Spiritual University and when I look at my degree, which you know, I would just go from marketing and PR and I use it but I haven't used it like career-wise. I do use the information, but I haven't used it career-wise. And the debt that I amassed with student loans is like it's like maybe 10 times almost what I put into Scientology, you know, maybe like seven times what I put into Scientology. And so I'm like, yeah, and I made more money with the information I have in Scientology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the funny thing, and I was gonna mention, I was just sitting here thinking about it, and we people say why do you have to pay for oddity, why do you have to pay for these courses? And one of the things that is important to mention to me is in all of the people that I've given things to pro bono, free, all of the people that I've given things to free, to help them out and everything, and this is no joke Not one person has ever finished it, right, isn't that interesting? The free stuff and get done. Yeah, because it you know, and this may be maybe course to say this, but it's because there's no skin in the game. And the thing is is this gets into the whole Scientology of Scientology, datums of you know, there's three types of exchange, which is, you know, exchange in abundance, fair exchange and criminal exchange. And you have to keep an exchange in because I, you know, I can tell you firsthand, jamie can tell you firsthand, you can tell me firsthand, auditing ain't easy. When you're delivering, oh gosh, you know, you get out of session and you're having to be on point. You have to be there at all times and I'll get done with five, seven sessions a day and I am wiped out. And that's just the auditing side of it, you know. I mean, you know there's there's, the gains that you get on the auditing side are tremendous, but it's something that you can't do for free, because there what people don't understand is, if they haven't had auditing, is that what you're getting from auditing is something you can't get, in my estimation, and you can agree or disagree, and that's fine. If you disagree, you can't get anywhere else. Yeah, and when you, when you do that for somebody for free and it's not a co-audit situation where it's a turnabout basis, I audit you, you audit me, like you did for over 400 hours, that's an exchange. You know, co-audit is an exchange.
Speaker 2:But and the distinction needs to be made what the church is delivering, what AOGP delivers in independent Scientology, what other independent Scientologists deliver, I mean, you're looking at different things. The church has the modifications, the changes to the tech, where you have to have a three swing FN, a floating needle, which means you're, you're, you've hit the end phenomenon of that, that particular auditing procedure, along with very good indicators and a cognition or an epiphany or realization this, this, this sort of thing you can't find it anywhere else and in the church they've changed it to where the needle has to swing three times, so you're overrunning the person and the auditor is bypassing a win. So you're paying for something and, to note, aogp's prices are a quarter of what the church charges. You can confirm that? Yes, that's true, and this, this is something that people need to understand. The church is a really expensive LRH out of policy, where he said no more than 10% of a person's income, which is what you mentioned, what you did outside of the church. He said it should never be more than 10% of the general person's income and not be put out of reach, and that is what the church has done. So much so, and they've abused the system, so much so that MasterCard had so many charged back with the church because they were. They've mishandled people, they've mis-audited people that they will no longer allow the church to use MasterCard to pay for services. This happened a few years ago. So there is a fair account of that. There is a fair exchange, there is a exchange in abundance and there is a criminal exchange. That would be a criminal exchange.
Speaker 2:Now, the people in the church and this is something they need to understand people listening in the church that listen to this podcast.
Speaker 2:This doesn't mean that you didn't get anything from the auditing, but you sure could have gotten a lot more, whereas if you were getting a proper floating needle, you wouldn't be overrun on things. You're doing things that LRH never created, like a survival rundown, that type of thing, and so you need to be careful, know before you go, like LRH says, which is a case supervisor series, technical bulletin, but it applies you need to know what it is that you're getting and how they're delivering it before you do, which we've done a podcast on as well. But the cost of auditing and what it costed me to be an auditor, what it costed you to get the gains that you got and be an auditor and be an auditor, there are mere pennies, pennies on the dollar for what we got out of it and whether it was in the church or it's outside of the church. I paid for a lot of services outside of the church once I got out, but it was a fraction of what the church charges. So you know.
Speaker 3:And when you find somebody who is a very learned Scientologist in the sense that they know how to do like yourself, very trained in how to do it it is a good exchange to say, hey, listen, you've done all this training, you've gotten all these skills that you have mastered and been qualified to do and stuff like that. How much do you charge for an intensive? How much is the sessions with you? How do I get started? It's a good thing because not only is it validating to say, like you know, hey, listen, all that time and energy that you put into it it's not for nothing, but it's also it says like, hey, I need help or I want to improve in some area of my life and if you can help me, I'm willing to help you. You know, you scratch my back, I scratch yours, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I mean, you know we got to keep the lights on, we got to keep the internet on, we got to keep all of the services on that we give to people for free on the website and keep the servers running course online course room running, the Oracle, the AI Oracle that we have, that has all of LRH's material on it, all the podcast service, the SoundCloud, with all the lectures on it 4,861 lectures that gets a couple thousand hits a week. That took a month and a half to put up for everybody for free. I mean these are things that have to be paid for. That's just overhead and nobody really understands all of the effort and the work that goes into this stuff. But I mean it's still not that much. But there's an awful lot of behind the scenes time that goes on to get trained as an auditor, to get trained as a course supervisor. You doing the over 400 hours of book one auditing that you did and you could take somebody in and you could handle them like a champ on book one, and I mean there's a lot of time that's involved in this and this is something I wanted to touch on real quick.
Speaker 2:Time is money. Mm-hmm, Time is money and I'm not looking at this from the viewpoint of like a lawyer who says, okay, well, this is billable. You're talking to me for half an hour. This is my rate. This comes off of your, the retainer that you gave me, and you're like wait what, wait, wait what? I just talked to you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't do that. But the thing is is, you know, you look at all of the experience that you've had, both in learning it and applying it and and helping people with it. Same goes goes for me and everybody here at AOGP. This there's. There are tens of thousands of hours that it takes to get this stuff and really understand how to do it and deliver it properly. And you can't deliver something like that for free because nobody nobody else would I mean. You know, even even a Catholic priest has to eat.
Speaker 3:Well, let me say something. So I was having a conversation with this guy we used to go to my church and he was asking me about doing some work, with doing a session with me, and I told him what the rate was and he goes oh no, no, no, I don't pay for spiritual yeah, I remember you telling me that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:He said I don't pay for spiritual work. And I said oh, what do you mean? He said, well, if you're. He said, because you're doing God's work, it should be free. You're doing God's work, it should be free, is what he said. And I said, oh, okay. I said, well, what do you do? And he told me what he did for a living.
Speaker 3:I said well, if I'm doing God's work, then whose work are you doing? Because because he was trying to make it like there's a distinction between how I eat and how you eat we both chew just like each other. Like I might have a little bit more teeth than you got, but we still chew with it, right, yeah. And so he was like you know, you're doing God's work, you should be free. And I said well, if I'm doing God's work, whose work are you doing? Because you don't do it for free? He looked at me and he just started laughing. I was like, exactly, exactly. We both doing God's work. Even if you bag in groceries at the grocery store, you're doing God's work, you're doing good work, you're helping somebody out, yeah, and so, if you, if?
Speaker 3:you help somebody out, you deserve to get paid for it. You deserve to be some exchange for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's, you know it's it's, and then that's that's. The crux of the matter is is that you know, lrh said the work was free, keep it so. And he paid for all of the research and everything he did on his own merits, with his own writings, and you know that's, that's, that's pretty noble to do. And at a certain point he divested himself of the actual body of the church and said, okay, now you guys, you guys run it and I'm going to go off and do my researches and then I'm going to give you that, that research. And he continued to do that until he died. So you know that's that's a very noble thing to do.
Speaker 2:And and you don't see that very often but nobody works for free. But the thing is, is that it's pennies, if not less, that you on the dollar that you're getting for the gains that you get, if you and this is the point is that you've got to put in the work yourself. You know, scientology is the only thing I've ever seen that, even if you don't believe it which is a whole other podcast, right, we should write that down. Yes, even if you don't believe it, it still works on you. Now, have you run into anything else like that that you could say does that? I know that there are, but I'm asking you and I hope I'm not putting you on the spot because we didn't talk about this for no podcast, have you?
Speaker 3:No well, what I'll say is this I'll say that any spiritual principle that one practices gets the result right, any spiritual principle that one practices and it is a practice. You say it about doing the work. What I say is Scientology is the.
Speaker 3:Scientology is the path that one takes, whether it be applied religious philosophy, whether it be your religion or whether it be something that you do in complement to what your faith walk is, which is where I kind of stand right. If you put this in place, if you show up right, I think my spiritual teachers say it works if you work it. It works if you work it. And that's what I've found and that's why, for 22 years, I've been working it and it's been working for me In various areas of my life.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it's a testament to the technology that even in the corporate church of Scientology it's that good of a technology that, even though it's diluted and it's watered down and it's been altered and everything, that people still get big gains out of it, and that's really interesting to see that that can happen. And it's important to note that the more you put into it because money is energy you put that energy into it. Okay, so this opens the door and lets me walk inside the portcullis of the castle. Now, what are you going to do once you're in the castle? Do you think the king, if you were a guest, you could stay for a while? But eventually he's going to say you've been here a little long and you could probably do some biblical stuff on that with your database that you have. On that you need to do something. What is it that you're doing? That's contributing to my kingdom and etc. Etc. Etc.
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting because if you read scripture, if you read scripture, jesus told his disciples don't carry with you purse or coin, he said, for the worker is worth his hire, right, and so, even talking to those who are going out and supposed to be preaching the gospel hallelujah, praise the Lord. Right, those who are supposed to be preaching the gospel, like it was said, don't take any money with you, for the worker is worth his hire. You're supposed to be hired to do this. You're supposed to be exchanged.
Speaker 3:You say eat what they give you to eat, treat what they give you to drink If they put you in the room, that they put you in a room. There's a whole story about the upper room and being able to stay in the upper room, like all this stuff. But the idea was is that if you're going to be doing this salvific work, if you're going to be doing this work to help all these people that you're here called to help, you don't have to worry about eating, you don't have to worry about living, you don't have to worry about being. Your substance and your sustenance is already there, and it's there because you have dedicated yourself to this journey and, as an auditor, as an auditor, you are dedicated. I mean, I see the hours that you put in, hours and hours and hours every day, almost that you put in to do this work. You're dedicated and so you should never have to worry about a light bill, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, I even I. Even last December, one of our public said you know, I've got this, but what was it what I told you about it? It was a their gurus in India, and they are what was the astrology was? That was a Vedic astrology.
Speaker 3:Vedic Vedic astrology, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I gave him my information and everything. I thought, okay, this will be fun, I want to see. And he said to me, said so, here's what's going to happen, and I'll skip just to the point that's germane to the whole thing he said to me. He said so when you shuffle off your mortal coil this time around you're basically you're going to level up because you've you've paid your dues. I just said I'm an auditor, I didn't. You know, I do services for other people and I help them gain and climb up the ladder of spirituality. And he said just said, you're going to level up and you're going to move on to the next universe. And I was like that's really interesting that he said that. I'm not saying it, I'm not saying it's.
Speaker 2:You know, I can either confirm or deny that, but I thought that that was interesting, that even and you know more about this than I do, by by a long shot, but but even in India they get this. What we're talking about, they get it and that's that's. That's. The thing is is that it's not. It's not just about what, what you have. You know, man, I'm having to pay this money and even if it's independent Scientology rates, I'm having to pay this money to do this. And I've had, when I was traveling around in a a, a class A motor home and all this stuff. I'd get to people's places and they pay me, pay me for the services and I'm not joking, this is not me being critical. This was observed by other people and they pointed it out to me and they said have you ever noticed that these problems that you have when you go to other people's places and you pay for they pay for the your services that they think they own you? Oh, yeah, yeah, have you run into that in?
Speaker 3:your line of work? Oh, absolutely. When they book a session, when they book some work with you or whatever, absolutely. They think that now I got access and I'm like, well, no, there's still protocol, there's still ways of doing things the right way, everything in order and decency. But yeah, no, they do.
Speaker 2:They think they owe you. Yeah, yeah, you know well, you've traveled all the way to Nevada, you know, and so I got you where I want you and you're going to do this for me and you're going to do this for me and all this stuff. And my point of all of this is is it's you know what you're paying. You're paying to do something with somebody who is is very well trained and very experienced in the area and they're there to help you and burn the midnight oil to make sure that you get what it is. Elrun Hubbard says you're supposed to get the way he said you were supposed to get it, but and this is, this is but capital B U T you have to put in the work, you have to be there, you have to burn your own midnight oil.
Speaker 2:Think about the processes, Keep your body rudiments and make sure you're fed Well, slept Well, read that you understand what it is that we're doing and pay attention and all of this stuff. And this is the level of exchange and this is one of the reasons why I wanted to do this podcast is, yeah, it's exchange for somebody to pay you for services, but the thing is, is is is people have this myopia and I hope everybody understands what that word is. It's M Y O P I A. We have a narrow mind, narrow mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, narrow view that it's this first dynamic. I me mine thing and that's you know, that's fine and you're trying to get a vision to realize that you're in Scientology because there's something you want to get handled. That's the truth. But the thing is, is the exchange happens in auditing and in training, not in the? It manifests in the physical universe, but it manifests in the theta universe. To manifest in the physical universe, Wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 3:Oh, listen, oh, you are preaching truth right now.
Speaker 2:Hallelujah Amen Amen.
Speaker 3:What he just said, hear me, is the God's honest truth. When you sow a seed, you reap a harvest, hear me. And so when? The way I've always looked at it, and this is why I had absolutely no problem. No problem regging onto a course, no problem buying a book, no problem getting in a chair, I had absolutely no problem doing it because when you sow a seed, you reap a harvest, and so, and you can text in our two way column about getting started with services. It was a very quick cycle, it was a very quick cycle.
Speaker 3:You said listen, this is what we can do for you. You laid the whole thing out. I said let me pay for the whole bridge. Here you go, I just. I said, let me just do it now. And did it? Did it take a bite? It took a bite. I'm telling you, it took a bite, but I was willing to bite it because I know I'm going to eat forever. And this is the thing. Guys, you get this. When you sow a seed, you reap a harvest. This is what my spiritual teachers always tell me Seed in the ground tree comes up, fruit on the tree and more seed in the fruit.
Speaker 2:That's right, and that's exactly what I'm saying. You get a pass and the king says, yeah, you can come into the castle. Hey, by the way, we're having a big shindig tonight and everything, and you know it's on me. But you know, in order to stay in the castle and rub shoulders and everything like that, there's some exchange that has to happen. And that exchange it's not just with the person that you pay. To get in there and do it is one thing.
Speaker 2:to do it, to do it for yourself and all of the other dynamics and dynamics, you know, are these urges to survival through yourself, through your, your love, your parents, your kids, your significant other, your group, the planet as a whole. These are all dynamics and it's on you, the onus is on you, that once you've paid for something, you do right by yourself, by putting in the time and putting in the work and not expecting somebody else to do the heavy lifting.
Speaker 3:And if I had managed it for you into yeah, yeah and make sure you have good wifi, especially that's an inside joke. That's an inside joke, guys. So this is the thing If you don't have good wifi, it can mess up the read. So just make sure you got some good wifi, make sure you really track it with it, because I want to make you want to make sure you get the best reads, the best results possible when you're doing a lot of auditing. That was my biggest issue.
Speaker 2:You got to have real time, real time video and you got to have a good upload speed and in in. You know the auditing works remotely. You know that and all of our public.
Speaker 2:And it's a brave new world to deliver auditing to anybody on the planet that has a decent internet connection, a camera, a microphone, a Theta meter and they're willing to put some skin in the game and they're willing to then play the game in order to win. Because you have to put in the work, you have to sit there and you have to look at these things, confront these things, whether it's auditing or in training. And I'm going to, I'm going to beat the the the drum here for just a second. Most, most of the money that we've earned in the OT levels or courses as well, and we've sold, we've sold a lot of OT levels and deliver them to excellent result. Those are courses, and I'm not including that, that and what I'm about to say.
Speaker 2:But most of the of the income that AOGP sees comes from auditing. It doesn't come from training, and this is this is this is the thing that needs to be gotten across. To the degree that you enable AOGP and any other independent Scientology organization that delivers training, that money is going towards trying to make other auditors, and when we're, we're auditing you, it's, it's enabling not only you, and this has everything to do with what we were just talking about is this auditing expands out across your dynamics and it opens flows with you and others on on eight different flows. A flow is a direction of energy you to others, others to you, you to you to yourself, others to others, another to others, others to another, so on and so forth. When you you get auditing, that's what that does.
Speaker 2:But the training side of it is the other 50%. And this is the thing that that getting people to push through and get this training so that they, if they decide to get auditor training, they're doing the same thing, and it spreads out like a tsunami and it creates a safe environment that allows AOGP and any other independent Scientology organization to to, to fan out, because we've got more people standing shoulder to shoulder, as LRH put it, and training is is so very important. And it's also important because training doesn't cost as much as auditing and it doesn't take as much time. If you put in the work, you just have to decide stick to it, keep, keep a regimen in and get on course, because now you understand how to stay out of the soup, you know what not not to do. Auditing handles the stuff that you did, the soup that you were already in Training keeps you out of the soup permanently, and that that helps grow more trees, that grow more fruit, that make more seeds the go in the ground and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:But you can't you can't answer questions to for people and things like that you can. Well, you know what I just realizations and auditing, and then okay, that's great. But when you can sit there and you can explain something to somebody and you and you peak their interest and they want to go buy a book, like you did, even like I did. That's the important thing, and the all of our all of the books that LRH wrote originally, without the alterations, are available on our site for free. You don't have to buy a thing. You can download them, you can. You can get on our page, see this is amazing.
Speaker 3:You can yeah you can go ahead. I was just about to ask you, let's just. Let's just, let's just, because I'm from Alabama, right, and you got to talk plain to me, right?
Speaker 3:So how do we make this as simple as possible for those people who have gotten to this point in the podcast and listen all the way through to see, like, how do I make this easy for me? So what I'm hearing you say is number one you got access to all the books. That that that you need. You can read the books right through the ALGP college. Right, they can download the books. Do the website.
Speaker 2:They can download the technical, technical volumes, the OEC, the admin tech, the course supervisor, which is in the technical volumes, and all this stuff. And I'm going to make another point when you get done, why how all this stuff ties together. But go ahead. Everything, everything's available, that's not confidential and there's a reason for that and we talked about that in the past podcast. But anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, I love it. Okay, good, so, so, so they have access to all of those things. So what you're saying is is that your first exchange is really to yourself, your first flow is to yourself.
Speaker 3:Because you got, you have the knowledge, but now you have to sit down and do the reading, you have to study, you have to clear your words, you have to make sure you got the tech right, you got it in. So your first flow is really to yourself I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna learn this stuff, right. Well then, after you, after you learn something and you just do your general reading, clear your words or whatever, that you now have courses through the course that you can actually register for, pay for courses that give you more advanced tech, advanced theory, advanced practicals, where you can actually now start to really apply this stuff in your life. Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You, just you just so there's no expense. What are some of those courses?
Speaker 2:Well, we've got the, the, the basic study course, which is our version of the basic study manual. We've got basic Scientology principles, how to resolve arguments, the basic communications course, gosh, there's another at least four or five of them that we have that are all free. And student hat is free, which in the church you get free if you do a major course. We've made it free. But the thing is, is student hat? Student hat is probably the hardest course you'll ever do in Scientology, because that, that that.
Speaker 2:That that that makes you, you know, an excellent student and it and it really takes a lot of confront, because study is the reason why people don't want to do courses, because they they don't know the tech behind it and they and as Scientology makes everything easy on a gradient, you just have to make sure you to clear up your words and everything, and that's what we're here for. We do standard star rate checkouts. You know, method nine, word clearing, method, forward clearing all nine methods. We do and we can help you with all of that. But the thing is, is you got to show up? You know, 50% of the 50% of the battle? Is you got to show up? Because there isn't? There isn't this massive expense that's incurred with the church. It's here, folks, it's here online.
Speaker 2:You could be on a mountain top in you know, anywhere that had and I just read about this the other day with, within the year, elon Musk, he's made a deal with T-Mobile and other other cellular phone companies that with Starlink, his satellites that orbit the earth, they're filling in all of the holes that T-Mobile and all of the other carriers have in the US and worldwide because they have these satellites in low earth orbit. So what this means is is that you literally can do Scientology sitting out on the big rock in the middle of Australia in a tent, as long as you've got some solar battery chargers and stuff like that, and you could take somebody in session. You could read fundamentals of thought and be on course I mean for free on some of these courses. What's stopping you is you.
Speaker 3:You just need to decide to do it, so this is really good. So what I'm hearing you say, is that really your first? I'm not going to put a timeframe on it, but a good chunk of your wins and your gains can come from free access to tech that LRH said the knowledge is free. Keep it free. So the free access to tech that can really help people where they are, on their level of awareness, right at their level of awareness, awareness characteristics, and so I can start getting help with my finances. I can start getting help with my relationships and my marriage. I can start getting help with the things that I know.
Speaker 3:Right now I need some support. I need some help with. I need to understand better communication. I need to communicate better. I can start getting help with those things and so I don't have to drop anything. Really, I don't have to pay anything money, wise dollars and cents to get access to some help.
Speaker 3:Now I do have to show up and I do have to put my time in on it. You put your time in. You know I put your time in on it, but when I do this, I'll start to see those results. Now, once I start to see those results, once my money comes up, once my marriage is better, once my communication and my confront is up, once I'm able to do more you have to able, become more able I can then say you know what? I want to go even deeper. I want to go even higher. I want to get even more wins. And that's when you can start getting auditing, where you say, like, what would be a good place for a person to start if they want to now say, okay, I've done a lot for free, what can I do now to go even deeper, higher? What would that look like as far as auditing goes? How would you determine where they would start?
Speaker 2:Well, that comes down to. You know the chart of awareness on the Scientology Grade Chart, which is also available on our website, and you know if you're to the point to where you're listening to this podcast, you've either realized, or recently realized, or had an interest once you realized need for change and to the degree that you read the data and you understand it and you clear your words on it in any of the basic books that are free, on the free courses and another one of the free courses is the ups and downs of live course, which 90, over 90% of the people that do our personality tests need to do post COVID to understand what suppression and why it's affecting them and why they one day they feel like they can be on course and one day they feel like they can't. That's ups and downs. That's because you're a trouble source. This is they're very short courses, very powerful courses, and you just have to say my life could be better and you have to at least get a little reading into where you're like there's some truth to this. That's the point. That's the answer to your question. There's some truth to this. I've applied something in my life. It's made it better.
Speaker 2:What else have you got Ron. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. And it just expands like an upside down pyramid and the sky is the limit. And I want to make a point what do you need to do something like this? Okay, you needed a cheap smartphone or better, you need an internet connection. Once you have a smartphone or a tablet which I mean anywhere in the world you can get a halfway decent tablet or halfway decent cheap smartphone for a hundred bucks, used on Facebook marketplace, for example, or buying new one. It depends on where you're at. You know, realities are relative. You can go into Starbucks, you can go into any place that has free Wi-Fi. You can go into a public library If you don't have a smartphone, and I don't know how you'd be listening to this podcast if you didn't have some sort of a digital device within this day and age. But that's all you need. That's all you need, other than the willingness to start and do it, because it's not going to cost you $30,000, or what was your amount? $10,000?.
Speaker 3:About $10,000.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it isn't. That's how efficient it is, and then you can get started. You can even do a student hat for free, which opens the door to everything else. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3:Are you?
Speaker 2:kidding me that you can get this data. Don't take my word for it. Don't take Quentin's word for it. See for yourself what's true for you is true for you and it's a testament, I think, and this is the reverse viewpoint on it it's a testament to the fact that there are people in the church that pay hundreds millions of dollars to the church at the end of the day, to do what Hubbard designed, even though it's been altered, because they see value in it. So, instead of decrying the fact that these people paid, all this money.
Speaker 2:Instead of decrying that, you should take a look at it and you should go. Damn, I want what they're having.
Speaker 3:Why? What's that? But why is it commercial? Why ask why?
Speaker 2:That's why, yeah, why ask?
Speaker 2:why I mean people are willing to pay that kind of a money. My son had a friend of his whose dad was a guy that engineered and created the open heart surgery robot. His dad, even though he wasn't on the bridge, and said you know, I'm going to do the rest of my Scientology next lifetime because I've got all these other cool games play, which is an out point in itself, meaning you know he shouldn't be saying that, but he is. He donated. He's the largest donor to the church of Scientology to date. He donated $40 million to the church because he felt like it was a worthy cause. Yeah, didn't want to do any services.
Speaker 2:Now I'm saying that this is counterintuitive, but I mean, if you look at that sort of thing, when you see these people who are phenomenally able, whether they recognize it or not and money is not an index of ability We've done podcasts on that too.
Speaker 2:We do have. What I'm saying is is that if those people are willing to do that under the conditions that the church puts them under and all of the negative things that the church represents and everything like that, then they're obviously still getting gains. Just look at the kind of gains you could get reading a free book, doing a free course, putting the time in for yourself, for your dynamics and all the people around you, because these things cross flow and you're going to expand, and you're going to expand and you're going to see things change. It may not seem real, but Quentin and I can both testify on a stack of dynamic books, a stack of Bibles, a stack of Koran, whatever, whatever you want to pull out whatever you want to pull out, it's going to aid you in what's true for you if you apply it and you put the time in the money.
Speaker 2:isn't the issue whether you're paying it in the church or you're paying it in the independent field or you're not paying anything at all to begin with, because you're being offered gems for free. All you have to do is cut them. I don't know if that's a biblical thing or not, but it kind of sounds like it. I mean, this is the deal. The money thing and what people pay oh, that's so ridiculous. But the thing is and I also want to mention this and I'm sure you have input on this you get what you pay for. Everybody knows that. You say what is that expression? The bitterness of a cheap price outweighs the satisfaction of getting something at a cheap price, kind of a thing. You get what you pay.
Speaker 2:But the thing is you're paying for it with your own blood, sweat and tears and I know that sounds aphorty and it's not, but you have to put the work in. And if you can put the work in and do something for free, and then say, wow, this is really worth something, and then you start doing it. This is how this works. It gets better, it gets better, it gets better and it gets better. So, at the end of the day, what you put in is what you get out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we haven't even mentioned and I don't think you mentioned it at least the lectures, All the lectures that are on SoundCloud, I think it's on.
Speaker 2:SoundCloud. Right yeah, 4,861 lectures.
Speaker 3:So let me say this, because this is what I do I'll use the lectures while I'm showering, like I literally have a Bluetooth speaker and it's in my bathroom, and I'll use lectures while I'm showering and getting myself ready for the day, or whatever. Whatever I'm listening to the LRA extension that's coming in. That's like you know. Data, data, data, right, I'll read when I have a chance to read through the website or whatever. I'll take a course when I have a chance to take a course, and I need to get better on that.
Speaker 3:But ultimately, if you feel those empty spaces you know they're called empty calories when you eat junk food or they say empty calories. If you feel those empty spaces with something like this and you don't have to be every waking moment, you know you could elect some time throughout your day or week or whatever to do so. But if you feel some of those empty spaces with this kind of information for free again, and then when you're ready to go in session, your session actually goes a lot faster, so you get a lot more done auditing, because you know what you're doing.
Speaker 3:Now, when you're auditing, when you go in session and you're sitting down with your auditor and your auditor is taking you through, you know what to look for, you know what's happening. You're that much more aware right awareness of awareness, unit, awareness, characteristics. You're that much more aware when you go in session and you can be and say, oh, there it is, and you can pull it right out and you get a floating needle and you pass and it's wonderful. And so all I'm saying is is that this, this is really, this is a really good conversation. You got free lectures, you got free books, you got free courses, you got some inexpensive paid courses, you got some inexpensive advanced courses and you have relatively inexpensive auditing, comparatively.
Speaker 2:Let's go quarter of the church. What the church charges.
Speaker 3:So, as an independent scientist those of you who are listening to this podcast it seems to me like you have no excuse and no excuse.
Speaker 2:That's why I did it, that's why we did it. Yeah, there you go, take away the excuses and go okay, here it is. What are you going to do with it? And you can look through these lectures on SoundCloud and you can find a title or something and go, oh, that sounds interesting. And you listen to that lecture and you'll go, I got something from that. And you go what, oh, here's one. And you do that and you go on and, before you know it, you listen to 25 or 30 different lectures. I get emails all the time about people saying you know, I listen to lecture on the way to work every day and I can't thank you guys enough for giving me access to this, because it's changed my life listening to a lecture on the way to work and on the way home and everything.
Speaker 3:Better than listening to the news.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean what's less than turbulent, the news or listening to a lecture, that gives you more ability. So, to wrap this up, this gives you some good comparable magnitudes of what we did and what we did in the church and what we paid for, and what we're doing now and what's available to you. And it's all a matter of just deciding to do it and taking a step and taking another step and you'll get there. You just have to start and things will present themselves. I mean, I don't know how many times I picked up a technical volume and I've got something going on in my life. I know this sounds really peace, love, flowers and beads and rainbows and unicorns and stuff.
Speaker 2:But I'll grab a technical volume and I'll just open it and I'll there's what I'm looking for on the page and I've had people tell me about that. You know, with the Bible and with the Quran and everything, it's called Biblio Nancy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, biblio Nancy, we were. You need a word and you just open up the Bible and you discern a word from what's come through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, there's that much value and there's value in everything for everyone. It's just a matter of opening your eyes and grabbing that source of information and opening yourself to it and taking it in and digesting it and making it your own and then applying it and then, boom, you're on your way and just do that every day, even if it's for 20 minutes, half an hour, an hour. So we really appreciate you listening to this podcast all the way through and every now and then we like to do these types of podcasts to reinvigorate people and motivate them to, you know, change their life because they are. They are the change, be the change and decide to be theta the solver, not theta the problem. When do you have any closing statements?
Speaker 3:I would just say that this has been really, really invigorating for me, and I would classify myself as a spiritualist, scientologist, right, and so I'm always looking for the spiritual essence of a thing, it's the spiritual truth of it, and I even understand money as a spiritual thing, not a physical body manifestation. Like I got to work hard for my money. You know that kind of thing. I understand money as a result of you know what you do and what you put out into the world, and so you get that back and so you know. Just decide that you want to be, like you said, theta, the solver, you want to be of a help to somebody in the world, and then take the money that you get from that and help yourself.
Speaker 2:Amen, that's right, that's it. And don't forget, if it's not fun, it's not Scientology.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:So for Quentin and I, and Scientology outside of the church podcast, we will bid you adieu until our next podcast, namaste, and we love you. Bye bye Peace он.