Have you ever encountered someone who seemed devoid of emotion in the face of adversity, and wondered what powers their resilience? Join Quentin Stroud, Jonathan Burke, and our special guest, Scientoligirl (Lisa Burke), as we engage in a raw and revealing conversation dissecting the emotional fabric that weaves the Scientology community together. This episode promises to challenge your perceptions of what it means to be heartless, as we navigate through the principles that govern our reactions to negative behavior and the pursuit of positive outcomes. We draw from a treasure trove of personal experiences and a foundational 1951 Scientology lecture that continues to inform our approach to communication and problem-solving today.
Venturing deeper into the realm of emotions and self-determination, we confront the often misunderstood Scientology perspective on reactive emotions and the trap of victimhood. This episode peels back the layers, examining definitions from the Dianetics Scientology Technical Dictionary, providing you with a clearer lens to understand the community's ethos. We share stories that highlight the tension between the need for sympathy and the drive to ascend the tone scale, illustrating the transformative journey from a state of reaction to one of empowerment.
Wrapping up, we touch on the sensitive threads of personal responsibility during life's tumultuous times, such as divorce and economic strife. A conversation unfolds around the idea of service facsimiles and reality control, juxtaposing Scientology's views with traditional psychotherapy. You'll also hear about the power of Scientology assists and effort processing in managing pain, with anecdotes that showcase their profound impact. As independent Scientologists, we reflect on our own paths, and with cultural nuances in tow, we extend an invitation to continue this exploration with us. Join us for an episode that's not just a talk, but a catalyst for introspection and dialogue.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Have you ever encountered someone who seemed devoid of emotion in the face of adversity, and wondered what powers their resilience? Join Quentin Stroud, Jonathan Burke, and our special guest, Scientoligirl (Lisa Burke), as we engage in a raw and revealing conversation dissecting the emotional fabric that weaves the Scientology community together. This episode promises to challenge your perceptions of what it means to be heartless, as we navigate through the principles that govern our reactions to negative behavior and the pursuit of positive outcomes. We draw from a treasure trove of personal experiences and a foundational 1951 Scientology lecture that continues to inform our approach to communication and problem-solving today.
Venturing deeper into the realm of emotions and self-determination, we confront the often misunderstood Scientology perspective on reactive emotions and the trap of victimhood. This episode peels back the layers, examining definitions from the Dianetics Scientology Technical Dictionary, providing you with a clearer lens to understand the community's ethos. We share stories that highlight the tension between the need for sympathy and the drive to ascend the tone scale, illustrating the transformative journey from a state of reaction to one of empowerment.
Wrapping up, we touch on the sensitive threads of personal responsibility during life's tumultuous times, such as divorce and economic strife. A conversation unfolds around the idea of service facsimiles and reality control, juxtaposing Scientology's views with traditional psychotherapy. You'll also hear about the power of Scientology assists and effort processing in managing pain, with anecdotes that showcase their profound impact. As independent Scientologists, we reflect on our own paths, and with cultural nuances in tow, we extend an invitation to continue this exploration with us. Join us for an episode that's not just a talk, but a catalyst for introspection and dialogue.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Hey there, independent Scientologists. Discover a new perspective to your bridge by visiting aio-gporg. Get in session with remote auditing using the Theta Meter. Are you curious about where you stand? Head on over to aio-gporg now and take our free personality test. Join the growing group of independent Scientologists today.
Speaker 2:Hi and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. I'm here with Quentin Stroud, I'm Jonathan Burke and we have Scientola Girl with us. Lisa, say hi.
Speaker 1:Hi Hello.
Speaker 2:This is episode 13, season seven, and this episode is titled Are Scientologists Really Heartless?
Speaker 3:So this will be a this is going to be hot. I think this is. I think this really speaks to a lot of the controversy and a lot of the way people, I think, sometimes view Scientologists out here in the world, and so I think this is really going to shed a lot of light on why Scientologists act the way they do, boy oh boy, this is going to be good.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So, quentin, why don't you take the lead on this from the outset, and then we'll jump in accordingly?
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally Well. So this came to mind for me because, obviously, being 22 years in the game and knowing what I know from various places around the world and I'm in Southeast Asia now it's really interesting to see how Scientology handles things, and I want to focus on the handling of issues, handling of problems, handling of upsets, handling of feelings, because whatever this thing is, from if you're in California to New York, to France, to Germany and all the way around the world, taiwan even Scientologists handle things differently than most people on the planet Earth. We are peculiar people.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that maybe the overlying arc of the whole thing is if you reward a bad child, what do you get? A bad or child.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you reward it down statistic, you get it down statistic. You reward it up statistic, you get it up statistic. Now, that's the administrative side of it. But the thing is is that what you validate is what you get, and we're basing this podcast off of a lecture from 1951 called Grandomedy and Emotion and this was in 12 October 1951. This is very early in Scientology, independent Scientology, so it's an important concept. A lot of the really good stuff came out of the early 1950 lectures, so I just wanted to interject that and go along with what you were saying.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I mean because when we talk about how we handle things in the world and how we no matter where we are, no matter what cultural background or what ethnic background that there's this way that we are able to handle certain problems, issues, emotions, feelings and stuff like that, those things really do impact how we are perceived in the world and as independent Scientologists. Of course, you know we have maybe a little bit more of a heartfelt approach right to certain things, a little bit more empathetic approach to certain things. But just as those who study Scientology, those who have been Scientologists for years, those who have done their TRs and objectives and a communication, drills and things like that, there's a certain way we handle things and I'm using that word handle for a reason, because it's going to come up later per LRH but there's a certain way we handle things that is integral to know so you can know what's what when it comes to our Scientologists, really heartless.
Speaker 3:So I can tell you some stories, but most of my stories have been centered around people who are really have been very, very kind, very, very gentle in handling me and talking to me me being a black person from Alabama and coming into Scientology, which, and even in the South, was predominantly white, like it I was. I was handled very gingerly and very tenderly, you know I was. You know it felt very different than other groups might have spoken to me, right, and so those are a lot of my experiences and later on, you know, kind of kind of feeling how I needed to communicate or how I was able to communicate my truth. They will communicate certain things. It was very, very easy for me I'm just talking about particular experience but it was very, very easy for me to communicate with Scientologists versus in some of my other circles where I didn't feel as heard or I didn't feel as acknowledged or whatever in different areas. So that's, those have been my stories. What about you guys? What do you guys have in the heartless stories or hotness experiences with certain Scientologists?
Speaker 1:So, okay, first, um, I want to start by saying that, you know, let's sort of differentiate the two. So, when it comes to emotion and stuff, um, a lot of the time emotion is reactivity, so it's from the reactive mind. Now, I'm not saying that all of it is. I'm not saying that, you know, we are meant to be heartless or we are meant to be, you know, robotic or anything like that. But when it comes to, uh, you know, dealing with situations, a lot of people, especially if, uh, almost exceptionally, if they are non Scientologists, they will deal with it in a way that is just uh, impulsive. So, for example, if somebody makes somebody else angry, it'll be emotion that will lead the way instead of analytical reasoning. Um, and the reason why that's important to know about and understand is because, if you're dealing with the reactive mind, it's not necessarily sane. We can feel at that point in time as right as we possibly could feel, like you know, have you, have you ever seen two people argue they are adamant that they are right, but one of them has to be wrong, or at least one of them has to meet each other halfway, but neither are willing. So it's kind of like the reactive mind takes over and then there's, you know, all these emotions and stuff, whether it's grief or anger or resentment, any of that stuff.
Speaker 1:Um, but the true thing that differentiates the reactive mind from obviously, um, uh, people who have either overcome or understand or know about it, is that we, as Scientologists, use more so analytical reasoning, and I think that is why people think that we might be a little bit heartless. Um is because, instead of using that reactivity, uh, and and all of that stuff, we use tools to kind of understand and solve problems. That's the thing, um, you know, anybody who isn't a Scientologist would go and you know if, if you have a friend, um, and you want to solve a problem with them, there would be like, you know, uh, sympathetic, or you know they would use the time scale, without knowing about necessarily the time scale, and in that way, try and be there for them and be supportive and stuff, without necessarily solving a problem, whereas I think Scientologists are very much centered around solving problems, um, you know, when it when it comes to um, what's that thing?
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, obviously there's auditing and then there's um assists and and all of these things.
Speaker 1:So, we centered around trying to help people, whereas your friend or family member are only interested in getting you by and making you feel better right now, whereas we are feel more centered around getting the problems solved long term, so that it doesn't repeat. Um, and we obviously have ways to do that. When it comes to ethics, for example. You know we have conditions, so if somebody's in a lower condition, we'll be like, okay, this is what you do and there's steps to follow, which we call formulas, et cetera. So you know, along those lines, I think when you take a scientific approach, which Scientology is based off of, um, it becomes less about emotion, less about feelings and all of that stuff, and more about solving the problem. But that said, that doesn't mean that we don't feel empathy.
Speaker 3:Um.
Speaker 1:I think, because we understand the mind so much and because we understand uh, you know where all these things are coming from, we actually want to help At least the social personalities anyway, and we want to use these tools.
Speaker 3:That's right now.
Speaker 2:There's a difference between empathy and sympathy. I think that needs to be stated, and that's the thing that we tend to shy away from is sympathy. From an independent Scientologist standpoint, sympathy is not a good thing to do to somebody because you're you're feeding into the thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of just like, oh shame, I'm so sorry that happened and that's where it ends, whereas empathy is kind of like, oh shame, I'm so sorry that happened. Here's what might work.
Speaker 3:Or or or. What do you want to do about it?
Speaker 1:Like how do you want it?
Speaker 3:How do you want to move through that experience? How do you want to get out of this? You know, I I say to people all the time listen, you might like, you might not like my medicine, but you can't deny it makes you better. And I got people all over the planet Earth that that come to me for and supported for help. And it's because the medicine works right, the medicine makes you better. And I had one client that said was meting at me. We were two-way common, we were going through some stuff that he was going through. He was like you're really not making me feel better. And I said, well, that's not my job. Yeah, exactly, I said. I said my job is not to make you feel better, my job is to help you be better. So what we're going to do is we're going to go over it again, we're going to go through this again and we're going to get you better. Right, we're going to get you through this, okay. And he felt he he had to breathe through it. He said, okay, I'm ready. And we kept, we kept going and we kept going.
Speaker 3:Now this person just bought a new house. When before he was living in this dilapidated one bedroom apartment, he just bought a new house. He just bought a new house, just got a new car, is dating, but before he couldn't even approach relationships because of some stuff that happened with his parents and you know, infidelity in his family, all this other stuff. It's so big. But what he had been getting, what he had been getting, was this oh you're, you're just, you're just a victim, you're just damaged. Oh, you've been through so much, haven't you? You know? And this, this, this whole, this idea of complacency in his stuff.
Speaker 3:And when he started working with me, he was like well, you're not making me feel better. And I'm like that's not my job, I'm not trying to make you feel better, I'm trying to make you be better and we're going to get you to that point and this is how we're going to do it. And we kept going through the thing. So so I want to start off a little bit even deeper than emotion, I'm sorry. Then, sympathy versus empathy, right, because before we can even apply either one of those, sympathy or empathy, let's talk about emotion itself. And you started off very right Scientology, girl, science, all girl when you said emotion is generally, generally reactive, which in Scientology, we call Missy Motion.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, we call it Missy Motion in Scientology. So can we get the definition for Missy Motion? I want to make sure we got that.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what it's in the other room. I can actually I can pull it up on our AI platform. I'm doing it right now, okay, but the reason why it's in the technical dictionary in the technical dictionary.
Speaker 3:Yep, the reason why I say this is because most people think that every feeling is emotion, and it's not Okay. There's some things as emotion and there's something as Missy Motion or Miss Applied Emotion, the wrong emotion for that particular experience, right. And so when you have this thing that keeps coming up and you clearly know it's not optimum, you clearly know these feelings are not what you choose as a free-willed spiritual being having a human experience, you clearly know that this is not how I choose to feel, unless you do. Some people choose to feel ways, right, but I don't want to feel this way. I don't want to feel this way. I don't want to feel this way, and yet it keeps coming up.
Speaker 3:This is very different, right? This is something else, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that it was a reactive emotion. It was coming from a reactive place. Something was done to me, something happened to me, something came up, whether it be a motivator, whether it be an absolute, overt act that hit me at transgression, whatever, and it turned me into feeling this way, made me have this emotion, and that's not self-determined.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because absolutely not. Because the thing is, when it comes to victim tones, whoever is a victim and I'm not victim-shaming at all, but whoever has that viewpoint at that time they were like something was lost because of something else. It was a loss of having this because of something else. Is that self-determined? Absolutely not because it was about somebody else. Nobody feels like a victim unless they consider the possibility of somebody else being self-determined over their lives.
Speaker 3:in some way shape or form.
Speaker 2:So we did pick up the mis-emotion which Jonathan's going to read here the definition oh, there's two definitions here, and this is on page 163 of the PDF, the Dynanx Scientology Technical Dictionary. I'm going to start with mis-emotional, because that's a little bit more direct to what you were talking about. Mis-emotional is defined as one such a word would indicate that a person did not display the emotion called for by the actual circumstances of the situation. Two being mis-emotional is synonymous with being irrational. Yeah, now mis-emotion, the other definition, above that, anything that is unpleasant emotions such as antagonism, anger, fear, grief, apathy or a death feeling. Two emotion and mis-emotion include all levels of the complete tone scale except pain. Emotion and mis-emotion are closely allied. To quote unquote, motion being only a finer particle action. Now that brings us back to the randomity and emotion lecture from 1951. He says now, if you're going to deal with statics, you have to oppose them.
Speaker 2:Now, a static is a feyton, a spirit, you, the being you have to oppose them with motions, or use the static as a means of affecting motion, and then give at least as much time to motion as you do the static. Now, this isn't in the lecture, but LRH also says that emotion is used by a being to get a desired result, and to me that's the crux of what we're talking about here and what you guys were just going back and forth on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, emotion is used by the being to get a desired result, and I think the reason why a lot of people feel that some Scientologists might be heartless is because they don't get the desired result.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, they don't understand me.
Speaker 3:You don't understand what I've been through. You don't understand why I'm coming from. You're not giving me the desired result that I want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we just go ahead. I was just going to say most people are used to sympathy and that's as far as it goes.
Speaker 1:But if you look, at any situation that you've handled with friends, et cetera. How useful is it to have somebody say to you I'm so sorry that happened to you, and that's really as far as it goes, whereas with Scientology it's like let's fix your problems, and there's actually a term, I think I'm not sure where. But for people that don't want to fix their problems, but especially lower at the bridge, that's their reality. Is that? Ok, I'm going to make you, or I want you to come down the tone scale to sympathy and that's where it stays. But the thing is, there's this whole tone scale with all other different tones that you could possibly be in that you can bring a person up so that they raise their awareness on the situation.
Speaker 1:And when they finally get to the top, they realize oh, you know what? I could have been self-determined on that. Instead of, that just happened to me. There is no way that this can possibly resolve itself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And that goes back to and I'm sorry to beat this again, but he says if you're going to deal with statics, you have to oppose them with motions or use the static as a means of affecting motion. So when somebody says, oh, you don't think it's just what I have to be, it is so terrible, okay. So what would you like to do about that? Some people would say that's heartless. They would. I mean, I don't know how many times I've run into it. My own mom said oh, john, you always have a solution for everything. I don't want solutions. I'm like are you fucking kidding me? No, I don't want solutions, I just want you to understand what I'm saying. Mom, I understand where you're coming from. What would you like to do about it?
Speaker 2:But you don't, you know, and it just and yeah and you know in the end she told me and I've said this before in the end, when she was on her deathbed, she said you know what? I tried to go to church with your aunt and everything and I just couldn't believe any of that crap anymore. You ruined me Because she couldn't go down the tone scale on it anymore. I mean, she literally said that.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 1:I just want to tell, like a personal experience when I first got into Scientology total noob, you know, I didn't, I didn't know much about, you know, responsibility in the sense that you know Scientology puts it as and stuff like that and when I would go in session obviously I didn't know what it was really about I would get so frustrated and so arc broken because I, we just couldn't keep it there. You know, like, like I wanted to feel, I guess you know, duplicated in some way, and even though I was, it was like okay, well, we're going to need to go to the next level. In other words, I think I think sometimes, when, when you can go in session, you want your auditor to agree with you that it that it was messed up, you want them to. You know, like, feel sorry for you, you want to have that validation, because you can't provide it yourself.
Speaker 1:You're not whole yourself, so you want that other person to just be like you know this was an injustice, but the thing is you'll unfortunately soon find out contrary to being in, for example, psychotherapy that that's not the case, because the auditor this was something that I learned a little while back was that it was actually a realization I had, was that, even if it's a positive evaluation because I was looking at it as the auditor can't invalidate or evaluate for you I was looking at it as just as a negative thing, like with evaluation, like no, you're feeling on your feelings, on valid kind of thing, and that's an evaluation, but it's actually even positive ones.
Speaker 1:So even if you were hurt, the auditor shouldn't evaluate for you, because then what ends up happening is they, they are validating the fact that you are a victim and so you never move past that. So it's like you know your self determinism, they are agreeing that your self determinism was not where it should be, Whereas you know, in auditing we realize obviously, you know being is responsible for everything, everything that happens to them, and that's obviously important to know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, and let me be clear when I've had friends who lost loved ones or when I've had people who are clearly in grief, like clearly going through some stuff broken relationship, broken marriages things have happened life. Life be life Right. And clearly a person is going through a very, very difficult moment, and this is what I said to one of my clients I was talking to a while back and she was going through some divorce and some financial issues at the same time. It was a whole bunch of things and I was on the phone with her for two and a half hours, two and a half hours. I was on the phone with her and she got to a point somewhere in the conversation where she was like you're not even listening to me and I said why would you say that? I said we've been on the phone for two and a half hours. What makes you think I'm not listening to you? She said because you're not agreeing with what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:I said well, I can listen to you and not agree, don't you agree? Yeah, yeah. And she said she said well, yeah, but, but you, but you have to admit, you have to agree that this was clearly wrong. It was clearly a thing right and I said well, no, I can agree to that. I can agree to that. I said and could you agree, right, that some part of this problem you were causative? Could you agree that some part of this you caused? Could you agree that some part of this was was that of your own making, even just being there in that situation that was so deplorable, and you knew he was messed up. You knew he was messed up and you're all worse. You knew he was messed up when you met him.
Speaker 1:Exactly, there's always some sorry. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say there's always some knowingness. You know, as John points out, a thing knows and when, when bad things happen to us, you know there is some responsibility always at play. And that's a hard pull to swallow for a lot of people because it's such a it's such a diverse conversation, but when it comes to bad things happening to people there there, there definitely is a lot of responsibility and there's two viewpoints to make. You can either feel like, okay, I was a victim, and then you know, stay stuck in that, or you can feel empowered and be like okay, so this happened.
Speaker 1:What have I learned from it? How can I change things? How can I be more responsible next time? You know that kind of thing and that's definitely something that a lot of people struggle with. I mean, I struggle with it. I think I think most people you know this is why we have Scientology is because you know, like on grade four it's service facsimiles, on grade two it's over at some with holds. You know, we get through all those barriers to where we can be clear and we can understand okay. This is why I did the things that I did and take, you know, full ownership of that, because it's much better to be like I am in control of my reality versus other people are in control of my reality and a lot of people don't see that because, well, you know, when other people feel like they're a victim, it still makes them right, and and this is the thing.
Speaker 1:So Aller-H basically says that a Satan never fully gives up his position, and that position, in short, summarizes to rightness. So, whether you're right in being a victim or whether you're right in being empowered, that really defines a person, and in Scientology, we are not trying to make people right in being a victim. We are trying to make them right in being empowered.
Speaker 1:This is why there's a whole that's so good yeah, you know, with psychotherapy it's essentially making a person right in being a victim.
Speaker 1:Now, whether or not that works, I don't have much experience in that, but what I do know is that I have had the best time in my life when I was fully doing courses in Scientology studying, getting auditing, all of that stuff versus when in psychotherapy, having somebody else say, okay, you know, this is the pull you take to make you feel better, and I definitely resonate so much with a higher frequency because the thing is it doesn't matter how low you have been in life if you really choose to realize and understand that, okay, I can be accountable, I was accountable, I have the responsibility to make my own decisions, versus something like I wasn't accountable, I couldn't be accountable and I couldn't make my own decisions. You know that takes away from your power versus you know being in power and I know I use the word power a lot, but it's so true the best you are being is when you feel like you are in complete control of your life complete, yes yeah, it's interesting because LRH says here in the same lecture randomity and emotion.
Speaker 3:He said a person's tone goes down in direct ratio to his belief in his ability to handle motion there we go you.
Speaker 3:You could also say this a person must be dangerous to motions. Any motion that comes in his direction will either be used or kicked straight away. That that is being dangerous. A person considers to be considered he has good self confidence. Hear this a person considers that he has good self confidence when he feels this way. He doesn't. It doesn't matter what motions of a hostile nature come into his environment. He will immediately be able to damp them out, convert them or get rid of them. He can handle them. So when, when you are really, really on your stuff and you know what you do, know that you know that, you know that. You know that you know, no matter what happens to you, no matter what motion, no matter who left, no matter who came, no matter what they said, no matter what they did, a person who really considers himself to be in good self confidence like I, really know who I am whatever motion comes at it, he can either dampen them, now that that amount, convert them or get rid of them all together so so, so, so, so.
Speaker 3:So, whatever came at me, I'm not saying this shit don't happen, shit happens, right. But if I'm in a good position, and who I am, if it comes at me, I can either a damp it down, which means it has less of an effect on me okay, I still feel crappy, but it has less of an effect on me or I can convert it. Huh, let me see if I can turn this around for myself. Boom, and turn them, you know, a negative into a positive right or acceptance.
Speaker 3:Basically yes or see, or see you can get rid of all together. It just as is. It goes away because it cannot exist in the environment of somebody. Who is this data, this powerful? Yeah you see, and with Scientology.
Speaker 1:Scientology, I believe, teaches you ways. It doesn't. It doesn't teach you ways how to be less empathetic or feel like well, it shouldn't. I have seen some effects in certain people where they've taken it the wrong way and have become, I guess, cold to it, but at the same time, it's it's supposed to, what it's supposed to do for you. It's just open your awareness so that you know.
Speaker 3:Okay, I feel more in control of my own life versus not in control at all mm-hmm, the only I'm gonna say this the only time a person would take this knowledge of who you really are, this knowledge of how to communicate with beings, and as far as human beings and they things, the only way a person can kind of take this and take it to a different level is if the person just genuinely doesn't care, right, if the person just doesn't care, then they're gonna come at you and you go feel that they don't care, right, you go feel that it's like, it's like oh yeah, you don't care about what I'm saying, you don't care about me, you don't care about this, whatever.
Speaker 3:And if you feel that way, then communicate with somebody else, like, like, like, let me see you something. And you're talking about somebody who again came out of Jehovah's Witness, came out of, you know, a very strict religious household, whatever. There's some things that I thought that they just didn't care about when it came to me, okay, and what I had to realize is they don't have to right, my mama, my mama don't have to care about what is important to me, you don't have to care about that.
Speaker 3:And when I rip, when I got that notion that she doesn't have to care, I stopped communicating with her about that. And I only communicate with the people who I felt cared about me and it was fine we had, we had good to it. I felt so loved and I felt so. And let me say this, and I found that in Scientology, when I could talk very freely about my experiences, when I could talk very freely about my afflictions, when I could talk very freely about things that has happened to me and where I felt like I was a victim, right, but I wasn't permitted or allowed to stay in victimhood. You know, my spiritual teachers always tell me he used to say pain is inevitable, but suffering is a choice. Yeah, yeah, you go, you go, stub your toe on the side of the bed, but suffering in it and staying on the floor and willing about it and not getting up and going to work, that's a choice yeah, he says here in the randomity of motion lecture, on page 8, paragraph 4, what life does with motion in general.
Speaker 2:It also does with pain, because pain is merely an intensified and more random motion. The first thing that life does about pain is to throw it back and employ it as conquered, converted effort. It gets motion coming in and it throws it right out again. That which doesn't kill you and this isn't what he's saying, this is what I'm saying that would that which doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. If you, if you at least evaluate it and go what did we learn from all of us? Yeah, and then that's how you. You throw it right back out because you're like oh, okay, develop a firm policies that this doesn't happen again. Or you know, and and that's the index of awareness, and I think awareness, in my estimation, awareness comes before responsibility, because you have to be aware of responsibility in order to use it. And you see that in people where you see sign independent Scientologists or Scientologists, either way, and and they go wow, he's really being callous with that person. No, no, you're looking at it from your standpoint, your viewpoint, understanding this data and going okay, so what do you? What do you want to do about this? How can we make this better? What's the solution to this, so that you're not suffering in pain, because pain is merely an intensified and more random motion?
Speaker 2:And he also goes on to say, yes, that let's see here. Where is it trying to find it? Here? I lost my place, that he. But he says man is pretty good, he can post his mind out someplace and he has learned to handle machines and things, so when some motion comes along, he can change the direction of this motion. Something comes in and touches him and he re-diverts it or redirects it at his first effort. His first effort is to catch it and throw it away. This is very important, what I'm telling you now, because you're going to be looking for just this point above other points as you're running, effort processing, because it's what you do with the effort what you do capital DO it's not, because if you refuse it, it remains randomity, it remains too much, you can't, you can't handle it.
Speaker 2:So it just sits there and is just roiling and everything like that, and you, a Scientologist, comes in and says, okay, so, let's, let's dissect this real quick. Okay so, and you could say this to somebody not that very many people could accept it early on what could you be responsible for?
Speaker 3:That's it. What could you, what could you be responsible for, what could you take responsibility of? Right? What could you be responsible for? I love it, I like. I like that pain is Randomity with volume. He says here pain is randomity with volume. Pain, vibration and I'm with volume, you can use these interchangeably. He says that pain is, it's something random shit happening to me with volume, not as big or as loud or as more Apparent, right, and that hurts me. That doesn't feel good to me as a thing, right, as a static Right, because I just want everything to be peace and I just want everything to be Like equilibrium and no motion, just, just, just, chill man. But the hey is red, da bidi with volume and will you fill in pain? You're really feeling something that is not aligning with you as a static you, as a thing. It's not aligning with you and now we've put volume to it, we, we've made it that much louder in our vibrational feel right, and therefore it starts to hurt, it starts to feel pain. You know, this is why you One thing I love about the assists right, especially like the contact assist, is that when you get knocked about or you hit your leg on something, whatever and I say, oh, no, contact assist, do a contact assist.
Speaker 3:And the person is not a Scientologist. Right, the person is not a Scientologist, but I've shown them what it is or how to do it. Right, the contact assist. Every single time they'll just crack up laughing. So they'll take this pain right to take the pain. Boom, randomity with volume, boom, take the pain. I said can do a contact assist. And they tap it, tap it, tap it, tap it, tap it, tap it, a contact assist. Every single time they start laughing and it's like they totally shifted that same Motion tap it, tap it, tap it, tap it, tap it, tap it, hit they hit the thing on the wall or the door and They'll tap it and it'll turn into a different Feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this happens every time, no matter what it is. It's amazing because basically, what you're doing is you're getting the person out of that pattern of Okay, now I'm supposed to. If there's pain, I'm supposed to cry. If there's pain, I'm seeing sympathy. If there's pain, I need to be in a lower tone. You know, I did this with a relative where we were sitting on the couch and she was saying that she had, you know, a lot of pain in her legs and I did it an assist with her and at the end of the day she was like so amazed she thought I like hypnotized her something. She was like, wow, why don't I feel any pain in my legs? And I'm like, well, it's, you know, obviously because you. What makes things more solid is the belief. So obviously I'm not saying that there is no pain, but what I am saying is that you can Make it a lot better or worse for yourself, depending on what you believe.
Speaker 1:And that goes in line with you know what you were saying, you know about, about you know getting out of that cycle and and trying to, I Guess, broaden people's awareness in that sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is so good. Listen, I hope you guys, I hope you guys know that a true Scientologist hear me. A true Scientologist understands Okay, arc is understanding. A true Scientologist understands. And so when you say to a Scientologist, oh, you don't understand me, a true Scientologist Understands. The difference is this we understand all of you.
Speaker 3:Yeah we understand the fullness of who you are. We understand the totality of you, and so if you feel like I don't understand this incident, know that I understand what you're going through and I understand that there's even more to you than that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm gonna speak to the more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that might you know, especially for somebody who's low on the bridge, low on the tone scale and stuff, that might be a little bit daunting Because you know they have never really known anything else and so when somebody comes along, it be like and like like I can fix your problems or I can help you fix them, or you know anything other than what they've read, like experience throughout their whole life, like sympathy, etc. It's like well, that person is more right because you know they know more. And a lot of people have have a button on people who essentially you know no more in terms of like being able to read people that kind of thing. Like I have a relative who I was okay, you know, let's do Scientology.
Speaker 1:It's really helped my life, maybe it can help you. And they are obviously, in terms of the OCA, they are Matterhorns, and so they Don't want to do that because they fear that Scientology makes them wrong, whereas, in essence, it only makes them all right a lot of people feel at effect when they have to talk to somebody, and they have to, you know, say well, this happened to me and all of that stuff, and and have somebody else help them, especially with Matterhorns.
Speaker 1:Just just for clarification Matterhorns are those people who, on the OCA, which is a personality test, they score higher than their D column, which is certainty, is higher than everybody else, higher than the other columns. So when that happens, is they have this rightness with them and anything that threatens that, including their victimhood?
Speaker 1:They're like no, no, no, that they don't want to deal with that one to deal with it all, and when it comes to the auditor, you've got to be willing to talk to the auditor and interested in your own case and if it extends as far as your rightness, that's gonna be incredibly challenging. So you know, for anybody who is interested in doing auditing and stuff like that, don't see it that way. We are not making you other determined. We are instead empowering you. It doesn't matter what the auditor thinks.
Speaker 1:You know who cares it's just it's just a case of you getting in session, you dealing with these things. The auditor really doesn't give a crap. It's more about restoring your self-determinism, and also the right self-determinism. What I mean by that is a lot of people, like I said will be will think they're right and their D column will be certain, but then their G column, which is responsibility, will be low.
Speaker 1:So there will be risk there will be certain that the Irresponsibility is right, you see, and that obviously isn't a good thing, because we want to restore the being to where they are as Responsible and, you know, as capable as they are, which is, you know, if you're looking at the essence of a being, their beingness is basically good. So if they're irresponsible, it's not so much in alignment with with a basically good being, a basically good being is.
Speaker 1:Responsible is correctly estimated, is you know certain and all of those things they want to raise all of those bars in terms of the personality test, and I know that the Personality test can sometimes be a little bit arbitrary, but at the end of the day, it is telling a person something about themselves and it's telling the auditor something about you. But, that said, it is not a judgment. It is more a Sort of like a starting point to where we can see what you need help with.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a person, a personal inventory, a self-assessment, and listen, this is, this is really good and I would love to continue this if there's a part two or something like that. But I I feel that we have so much, we've unpacked so much about Our Scientologists really heartless, somebody who really knows their stuff and is applying the tech and doing what they should be doing. Especially us as independent Scientologists who have not bound by certain cultural, if you will, viewpoints or whatever, like I think that this is something that we could definitely lead more into. So, listen, we love you very, very much. I know I do, and there ain't nothing you can do about it. Believe me, people have tried.
Speaker 2:Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed. This is Quentin said. And for Lisa and myself, we bid you a do and we'll catch you in the next podcast. Maybe we'll do a part two on this next week. We've got things lined up for the rest of weekend podcast, but we'll mull it over and have some conversations about it. So for Lisa and myself, bye, namaste, and we love you, peace.