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Speaker 2:Hi and welcome to another AOGP Outsided the Church podcast brought to you by AOGP, the Advanced Org of the Great Plains, aio-gporg. I'm here with Quentin Stroud and this is episode 15 of season seven. How and the title of this one's going to be how to Beat the Church of Scientology at Its Own Game, and that sounds like a? Well, wait a minute. What is their game? Well, we're going to establish all of that and do a deep dive on this in our new, shorter format. So hold on to your hats. We're going to move at a breakneck pace and get the ball rolling. So, quentin, how do we beat the Church.
Speaker 2:Scientology at its own game.
Speaker 3:This is fantastic, because when we talk about the game right, the game of life, the playing this game, obviously we know that as we go forward, as we move through life, there's things that we're going to run up against, right, there's opponents, if you will, there's challenges, and so, as independent Scientologists, we've kind of figured out the way to beat the Church of Scientology at its own game, and that's what I think is really fascinating.
Speaker 3:So the first thing I want to say is is that, per LRH, you know, life is a game, right, and when you look at games theory, when you look at the idea of what a game really consists of, you can kind of find out that pretty much everything in life, every experience, every challenge, every thing you come up against or come into it, actually is a game that we're playing right. And so LRH tells us that a game consists of freedoms, barriers and purposes, and when you have these three components, or you see these three components, you can be, you know, kind of step outside of the game and you can see how to play it differently, like you're no longer on the field now, you're, you know, up in the stands, up in the loft, you know, and seeing it a little bit differently. So, when it comes to the Church of Scientology, what's the game here? Like, what are they really doing, right? And so I'm going to ask you, john obviously you have a different kind of experience there Like, what do you know?
Speaker 3:Like, what have you seen? Their game is that they've started playing with people, especially since the LRH passed away and whatever. What game have they started playing here?
Speaker 2:Well, it went from a well, we had the podcast a few weeks, a couple weeks ago, about the Mission Holders Conference in 1982, where things really started to change and the centralization of power was brought under the corporate umbrella and the missions basically were chopped off at the head as to what they could do and they couldn't do. And that was the beginning of all the changes from what Hubbard wanted to what David Biskavich and his cronies wanted and eventually he eliminated pretty much everybody over the course of the last four decades to where it's a hey you org board and he just micromanages everybody. And that turned into this Ideal Org thing the last 15 or 20 years, which is a twisting of the data series by the same name, the Ideal Org to justifying getting people to pay for buildings who are donors, and those donors are paying for a building that is then rented to the organization and then the organization pays rent and they have become a real estate acquisition and leasing firm that poses as a religious philosophy. So that is the overarching and we talked about this ahead of time. That is the overarching theme that they are operating off of. That's the big big game.
Speaker 2:They don't necessarily deliver Scientology the subject by any means anymore. There have been so many alterations that we've talked about in podcasts, which we won't go into here. Their game is to pull as much money out of somebody as you possibly can while you can, to the point that MasterCard has cut them off and they can't even take MasterCard anymore because they've had so many refunds. And the reason why they have the refunds is simple. Allerate says deliver what you promise, and that's not what they're doing. So originally, scientology the subject game was to free beings. The Church of Scientology is focused on money and he who has the most toys wins and that sort of thing. It's a physical universe thing. It's no longer a spiritual thing unless you pay a massive amount of money to do so.
Speaker 3:That's my take on that, and no, I get that, I get that. And so this is interesting because when Elrond Hubbard called the Church of Scientology the Church of Scientology, he kind of was a little bit apologetic about it because it was almost like there was kind of like no better word, a better positioning, I guess, for the church in order for it to exist. It's a call-a-day church under certain laws and stuff like that. Did that start this dwindling spiral into what we are now? Or was that the way to go, like?
Speaker 2:was that the?
Speaker 2:start of a new game, I guess the question yeah, back in 54 on the Phoenix Lectures he said Scientology is not a religion. And that changed in the late 60s, 63, 1963, on with the Kennedy raids on the church. Then you get into the FDA raids and all of this stuff where they needed to have some legal protection and the most logical legal protection was to become a quote, unquote actual scheduled church per IRS dictates and definition. And that's what they did and it made sense and it is a religious philosophy. They do have supposedly Sunday services still, but it's a sort of a contradiction in terms in a lot of ways, because auditors don't come in in priest outfits and things like that they could.
Speaker 2:And if you are ordained, then you can marry and bury people and all of that stuff. But I don't look at it as a religion. I look at it as a religious philosophy, from my standpoint. What's your standpoint?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I do look at it as a religion in the sense of something that relinks you or reconnects you with who you really are, right, reminds you of who you really are, and so the idea of it being like religion doesn't scare me personally, right, I'm actually a big proponent of it when it's done right. The difference is the difference is that what we see today in most religions, not just Scientology. Let me be very clear. What we see today and we can go to look at the Catholic Church, we can look at Jobless Witnesses, we can look at, you know, the corporate church of Scientology, we can look at a lot of these things it has become this space of how much can we acquire, how big of an empire can we build, and from that empire, that creates the way, whatever that means, for people to attain whatever level of salvation. But ultimately, I'll say this if I look at the corporate church of Scientology and I see the game that's being played, I see that they do have certain freedoms. They have certain rights to do certain things, whether it be under tax code, law or you know. However they want to operate their businesses, they can do it that way. That's totally fine, right? There's freedoms like that, there's barriers that they keep hitting right.
Speaker 3:Obviously, the first barrier is not delivering what's promised right. Also, too, just being limited, very limited, in fact, in scope on how they can deliver. And part of the reason why they keep hitting the barrier of not being able to deliver is because of how they're doing it. They're still stuck back in the 19th century, I'm sorry, the 20th century. They're still stuck in the 20th century. They're still stuck in an old way of being.
Speaker 3:And what I love about independent Scientology, which is where we rest at ALGP, is that we're able to not hit those barriers the same barriers don't hit us Right and to be able to deliver services and deliver what's promised when somebody signs up and wants to get auditing and get support, and we can do it right. Yeah, and to that degree, it's a good thing that we're able to be able to deliver, that we don't have to get hit with those certain barriers, right, right, and there are other things that we have to play with, sure, but the idea is that the corporate church, which has positioned itself this is how I say it the corporate church has positioned itself within the religious philosophy of Scientology, the study of, and is trying to gain as much as it can within that religious philosophy, under the you said the guys under the guys are the working out, working on that religious philosophy. And so now we're onto something else. Now we're not playing Scientology, the subject, Now we're playing Corporatism. Right, it's a different game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and LRH talked about in his 1983 Ron's Journal and I just listened to it recently to use his voice to make our AI LRH voice. Yes, yeah, which is and look, you know, this is another thing that we can do that they don't. He mentions how he has completely relinquished the church to this corporate body so that he could get on with the things that he wanted to get on in 1983, which is three years before he died, and in my estimation, I think that that was. I understand why he wanted to do it, but I think it was a turn for the worse, because now the inmates are running the asylum and there weren't, there weren't things put in there to make sure that the people that were actually running the show were of good moral constitution, were very well educated prior to taking their posts in the corporate church. And I mean, you know, if you're gonna do it corporate, most CEOs have a college education, most, if not all. I mean you have to have a pretty healthy CV.
Speaker 2:I guarantee you that David Miscavige does not have a college education. And this isn't an episode about bashing Miscavige, it is just a fact. And when I talked to Pierre Ethier about this, the now deceased class 12 from a new market outside of Toronto, pierre said most of the people that are in executive positions in the corporate church of Scientology never even finished high school or had a GED. Now, there's reasons for that that we don't go into with the C Oregon cadets and blah, blah, blah and all that stuff and everything like that. But then that's a whole other podcast. But you know, the corporate structure and all of that stuff has not been followed. It's just it's in name alone and in paper alone. But I mean there has to be intelligence behind it in order to make things work and there has to be ethical, and there's, you know. I mean you know how many corporate scams and Enron and all this stuff, just because your corporation doesn't make you ethical by any means. That's true.
Speaker 3:Or the GED.
Speaker 2:Yeah, apple gets slammed with violating patents and colluding to monopolize, and all this stuff practically on a weekly basis, and all these guys have, you know, very, very good college educations and things like that, so it doesn't mean anything. But if you were to look at it from an idealistic viewpoint, ideally this would be the case, whereas in independent Scientology, you know, I'll be honest, I don't have a college education. I do have the education that I got in Scientology, but I'm not a corporation either.
Speaker 3:So right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, not in that sense, and you know, I think in some ways the corporate structure prevents people from doing Scientology the way that it should be done.
Speaker 3:As a Scientology, the subject in my estimation, that's my opinion Well, you know, it's interesting that you you're juxtaposing those two things, right, because we're talking about how to beat the Church of Scientology at its own gain. And so if these things are already like, we can already spot that there's clearly these outnesses when it comes to them trying to manage or regulate or dispense even Scientology as a product or as a study. But when we start to look at these outnesses, you can immediately then just do your own due diligence, right, like, do your own due diligence and take a look at where. If I were to go this route, if I were to go to the Church of Scientology, if I were to go to this direction and in this direction and try to go get some services, what's gonna be the outcome of it? And just like you go on Google and you look at reviews before you go to see a movie or you look at reviews before you go to see, just go, look at the reviews, right, look at reviews and different people's experiences. But the other cool thing about your ability to play this game right, cause you're playing your own game too. It's the game of life, right? Don't give your money to somebody who you know is going to not use it well or mismanage it or take advantage of you or whatever. And if you have that in your spirit, if you feel like something doesn't feel right to you, like hmm, I don't know if I can trust the direction this is going, trust that intuition, trust that feeling right and not let yourself.
Speaker 3:When I first came into contact with AOGP, I was literally looking for an auditor period. Like I said, I need to find a Scientology auditor. I've done 400 plus hours of Dianetics. I'm really, really I'm aware of who I am and what I'm working with at this point. Right, but I know that there's more that I wanted to tap into and release and let go of and other stuff. So I was looking for an auditor. I did my research, I did my due diligence, I asked questions, I talked to other people who I asked for references. Like I did all this stuff. Is that how you're supposed to do business? Isn't that how we do it? Like you asked for references, tell me about something you've been working with, tell me about something you've experienced in your head. Let me get some testimonies and you go through your own due diligence and when you get the answers that you're looking for, you trust those answers. I remember having a conversation with the independent auditor and it's very, very nice person, very nice person, and yet the things that I was hearing was totally off. What I know is LRA's tech, like it was totally off the books and I was like, wow, you know, this was a really good conversation, but I want to let you go.
Speaker 3:I had to trust what I knew as an adult, as a free-willed individual and as somebody who's like I'm trying to get some real results here, Right, and that's what made me make that shift. So all I'm going to say is that, if we know that there's clearly barriers that the corporate church is getting, I don't want those barriers in my life. I don't want to have to go into an org. That's me personally, right, right. I would love to be in my living room, be in my bedroom, be in my office or whatever, and I would love to be able to do what I know I need to do for me With the help of my auditor. It feels so good, you know. Another barrier is, of course, money, right, right. I would love not to have to give all my money in order to go free, like I feel more free with more money in my account. That's how I feel more free that way Me personally Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you feel more secure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's this thing, right. So anything that takes more money out of my account makes me feel less secure and less free. So I want to get the service, I want to get some help, I want to get some support and I don't want to feel like it's taking something away from me, right?
Speaker 3:And so that's the second thing. And then the third thing for me about being with corporate church of Scientology out of its own game is time. Time is a barrier. We already know that. If you a Scientology worth the salt, you know that time is a barrier. I would love, let me say it this way I know that LRH created and discovered Scientology in such a way that is, to help a person get free in this lifetime with a sense of speed and rapidity. If you do, if you apply the tech as it's written, as it's supposed to be done, right, it's supposed to be fast and it's supposed to be fun.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, it's not fun. It's not Scientology the subject that is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, it's supposed to be fast and it's supposed to be fun. And I say that you know a little bit tongue in cheek, but I'm saying it from the perspective of I wanted something that's going to get me through in a relatively short period of time and I didn't want a lot of the outnesses. I didn't want a lot of the. Let me, let us debug this and let us check that and let us figure out this. And listen, just give it to me. Give it to me straight. I'm from Alabama, you know. Just give it to me straight. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm serious. For me that I didn't want to apply or run into when I was trying to go free and I found each of those in the game that they're playing.
Speaker 2:Well, and another way to put a headline on it is arbitraries. What is an arbitrary? An arbitrary is something that is put there for no reason other than the fact that it's put there but really doesn't have any purpose other than the fact that something or someone or both wants it there for some reason. That is an arbitrary. You know, I did to get to Dallas from Kansas City. I don't have to go through Denver, I can go straight down I-35 and get there in 12 hours.
Speaker 2:So that would be an arbitrary to say that I have to go to Denver before I can go to Dallas and to give our listeners and this is what you're running into, and this is one of the games that people are playing in the corporate church is that they're being told that you have to do this, this, this, this, this, this, this and two thirds of those this is our things that they've added on that LRH didn't say that you have to buy these books and you have to buy two meters worth $10,000. You know when you can get a theta meter from us for $580 roughly with shipping and everything like that. I mean it's not even 10%. I mean these are all arbitraries where everything is added for some reason you have to give to the IAS and you have to. You know, have to, have, to, have to have to. Those are arbitraries.
Speaker 3:Wait, so is the SRD an arbitrary.
Speaker 2:Yes, the SRD is an arbitrary that was not written by LRH, but was used as a tool to extract more money out of people by means of something that was not sanctioned by LRH. He never wrote the SRD.
Speaker 3:Wow, but the HQS. So the HQS is the Herbal Qualifier, Scientologists. That's LRH, right.
Speaker 2:That's LRH, the objectives are LRH. That's part of the survival rundown. The TRs are LRH, but the thing is is that they massively overrun people on the survival rundown and it shouldn't be done at all, because he actually canceled it when he found out about it and said I didn't write this, cancel it right now. So this is something that's added on, and they use the SRD to recycle OT-8s all the way down and say, okay, you have to start all over again and you have to do this all over again. That is an arbitrary of massive proportion. That is a barrier that does not exist in corporate excuse me, that exists in the corporate church of Scientology but does not exist in Scientology. The subject itself and what LRH originally intended, which is what AOGP does, is we do the stuff that he originally intended.
Speaker 3:Now what about the superpower?
Speaker 2:Superpower is an arbitrary. Superpower was never, ever, ever intended to be used on public in corporate churches. Scientology or LRH Scientology the subject of Scientology. It was made.
Speaker 2:Superpower was made as a rundown to handle C-ORG members who had been mishandled and told that they had evil purposes when they really had a floating needle on the emitter. In other words, they were good and they were all fine, and the guy that was doing this at the time told his superiors that they had evil purposes because he couldn't tell the difference between a floating needle on the emitter and a rock slam, which they are dramatically different. So LRH did this superpower program to rehabilitate all these C-ORG members that had been put through Helen back for no reason in order to shine them up and put them in a better position with an hour or two of auditing a day type of a thing. That's what it was for. It was never, ever intended to be released to public. It has absolutely nothing to do with smelling different smells and being put on a gyroscope To say that that is an arbitrary. I've got we've got the superpower of materials and it doesn't have anything to do with all these things that the church has put in there.
Speaker 3:But they've turned it in completely different. I was going to say, because the LRH had a gyroscope like this. Where that comes?
Speaker 2:from Right right. So I mean a lie is an arbitrary. So there are people that are being lied to about what superpower is. It's fraud. It's fraud the SRD. It's fraud because it isn't something that Hubbard wanted people to do, because it wasn't something he wrote. So an arbitrary can be a lie, it can be a fraud. So these things are things that they're forcing people to do, the superpower not so much.
Speaker 2:Originally, back in the day in 1990, 1991, when they released Key to Life, they told everybody that they had to do Key to Life in order to do superpower. That's a lie as well. There's nothing in the superpower materials that says you have to do Key to Life in order to do superpower. But that's what they did. And then the whole Key to Life evolution fell apart because they couldn't keep the teams together in the orgs and the corporate church gave up on delivering Key to Life up until recently. They're trying to resurrect it to get everybody to do it again, because pretty much everybody that was in then is not in now, and so they can resell it to everybody, re-copyright the materials and sell the materials all over again and get everybody to do Key to Life again. This is Wash Rinse, repeat Arbitraries is what it should be called, because you just wait for a new line of suckers so that you can resell the same materials and resell them, and resell them, and this is what they've been doing for the last 40 years.
Speaker 3:Sorry, the truth is what is it? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's crazy because you know, as a past life scientist for me, I spotted that SRD was something different and I was like I never really, I never really gravitated towards it. Now I know the value of TRs, I know the values of objectives, I did the HQS, you know the whole bit, but after that I was like I'm good. I was like yeah, I'm okay, I can move the Astra.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the whole thing here is it's an arbitrary, and the other arbitrary is the basic books that they get everybody to buy for $5,000.
Speaker 1:There's no such thing as the basics from LRH?
Speaker 2:No such thing. You learn to. You learn and do the book fundamentals of thought on the Academy levels, audit or training. You read New Zealand on life on the Academy levels and so what? What they did is they repackaged all this stuff for $5,000 package and the Philadelphia doctor course lectures, which are an OT grade set of lectures that LRH intended in 1952. Some of the earliest technologies, great technology, don't get me wrong, but it's something an OT would use. It's outgrading.
Speaker 2:So you're, they're giving you all these books and you're doing this, the basics check sheet and everything like that, when you should be doing auditor training. That is what LRH in the first place. Now why are they doing this this? They're doing this because they don't want trained auditors. I'm just going to come out and say it. They don't want trained auditors. They closed the class eight course down. You can't do the class eight course anymore. You can't can't do the class six St Hill special briefing course, the biggest course in Scientology. You can't do it in the corporate church of Scientology anymore. Those are arbitraries in the negative sense. Because you can't do it anymore. You can't get trained as an order. They don't train class 10s, 11s and 12s as class 10s and 11s and 12s.
Speaker 2:They compartmentalize them to where, if a guy leaves and he's been trained on LL 10, he doesn't he doesn't go out of the church and into the the non-scient, corporate Scientology world and go out and audit people on it anymore, because all he has is one piece of it. This is what they're doing is they're compartmentalizing their staff and they're compartmentalizing their public. They don't want auditors out in the field doing things. They don't. They don't want eye help, they don't want the competition, they don't want to give away the cow, they just want to keep selling the milk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean, these are, these are, these are such outnesses that the game that they're playing is no longer Even resembles what LRH intended. There are so many of these negative and if you'll excuse the expression positive arbitraries made up lies or Lies that are put there and things are taken away that it no longer resembles what LRH intended. I mean, lrh has been dead almost 40 years that's not that far away from half a century and and the technology has has increased so much that you can audit online from the comfort of your home. To bring this thing back full circle, you can. You can find all of the information to have a conversation with with Artificial intelligence and find anything you want in the blink of an eye and every instance that it was mentioned and have a conversation with it. You can download it.
Speaker 2:You can listen to materials in LRH's Cloned voice which is exactly what it was in 1983 and listened to him Basically books on tape or as an MP3 from us for free. We don't sell any books, we don't sell any lectures, it's all free. If the work is free, keep it. So that's what he said. This is how we beat them at their own game.
Speaker 3:This is amazing. Well, listen, I I Wanted to know how and why we need to be prepared for this, and if you listen to this, if you got to this point in the In the podcast, please share this out. Please let people know that there is a way to win as a Independent Scientologist. There's a way to win, there's a way to go free, there's a way to get some help and there's a way to do what you want to do for you and for those you love. So I thought this is really good.
Speaker 3:I know for me, I knew I needed to be this. The church is his own game. I knew I did because, number one, you ain't taking my money. Number two, you're not taking my time, wasting my time. At number three, I know I'm I'm able and willing to go where I need to go and do what I need to do in order to get free, and so I'm enjoying this, this process. So, anyway, this is what I wanted to get out of it. So thank you so much, jonathan, for sharing this with us, because I I needed to hear exactly what you just say in order to know that. I know that. I know that I know what I'm right and that's, that's the the.
Speaker 2:The last thing that I want to mention is is there's there's there's different types of Determinism. There's other determinism and self determinism. What we're talking about here is you can beat the, the corporate church of Scientology, at its own game and not be other Determined. You can be self determined and you can be happy and you can be successful and you can be aware and you can be in charge of all of your eight dynamics and Flourishing, prosper for a fraction of the price, at your own pace, as you want to do it, from the comfort of your own home. That's how we beat them at their own game.
Speaker 3:I Love it, I love it Wow.
Speaker 2:So, for Quentin Stroud and myself, we hope you've enjoyed this new format of our podcast and we will see you later this week with another podcast, namaste, and we love you. Bye, Bye, peace you.