Embark on a spiritual odyssey with Michael Grady, a fresh face in the independent Scientology landscape and myself, Jonathan Burke, as we connect with a world where technology like the Theta Meter empowers individuals across the globe with remote auditing. We discuss past-life encounters and the evolution from past-life Clear to trained auditor unfolds, offering a rare glimpse into the personal triumphs and trials within Independent Scientology's unique journey of self-discovery.
This episode peels back the layers of independent Scientology's auditing processes and the evolution of its techniques, confronting the delicate matter of personal responsibility in physical ailments. Through vivid anecdotes and expert insights, the conversation honors the urgent call for spiritual progression amidst a world on the brink of crises. Witness the profound mental and physical metamorphoses brought forth by auditing, as we celebrate the undeniable impact of such practices on one's life path.
As we traverse the Scientology landscape, from the evolution of auditing techniques to the quest for OT abilities, we challenge the myths and uncover the profound capabilities within. We confront the notion of a shadow government coveting L. Ron Hubbard's technology and the revolutionary potential of Scientology to unlock extraordinary personal abilities. Join us on this intriguing expedition that promises to not only illuminate the complex tapestry of Scientology beliefs and practices but also to inspire a deeper understanding of our own spiritual capacities.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Embark on a spiritual odyssey with Michael Grady, a fresh face in the independent Scientology landscape and myself, Jonathan Burke, as we connect with a world where technology like the Theta Meter empowers individuals across the globe with remote auditing. We discuss past-life encounters and the evolution from past-life Clear to trained auditor unfolds, offering a rare glimpse into the personal triumphs and trials within Independent Scientology's unique journey of self-discovery.
This episode peels back the layers of independent Scientology's auditing processes and the evolution of its techniques, confronting the delicate matter of personal responsibility in physical ailments. Through vivid anecdotes and expert insights, the conversation honors the urgent call for spiritual progression amidst a world on the brink of crises. Witness the profound mental and physical metamorphoses brought forth by auditing, as we celebrate the undeniable impact of such practices on one's life path.
As we traverse the Scientology landscape, from the evolution of auditing techniques to the quest for OT abilities, we challenge the myths and uncover the profound capabilities within. We confront the notion of a shadow government coveting L. Ron Hubbard's technology and the revolutionary potential of Scientology to unlock extraordinary personal abilities. Join us on this intriguing expedition that promises to not only illuminate the complex tapestry of Scientology beliefs and practices but also to inspire a deeper understanding of our own spiritual capacities.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Hey there, independent Scientologists. Discover a new perspective to your bridge by visiting aio-gporg. Get in session with remote auditing using the Theta Meter. Are you curious about where you stand? Head on over to aio-gporg now and take our free personality test. Join the growing group of independent Scientologists today.
Speaker 2:Hi and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. This is season 7, episode 17. I am here with Michael Grady. Michael is a recent initiate to independent Scientology. You haven't done any services in the church, have you?
Speaker 3:Not the actual church, just an independent doing the HQS.
Speaker 2:Okay, great. So the HQS for those of you listening that do not know is the Hubbard Qualified Scientologist course. It is like a sampler platter of different auditing techniques, steady information, that sort of a thing to get a person get their feet wet on auditing and a bunch of other things. And you've had you're about what halfway through.
Speaker 3:Pretty much, yeah, about halfway. Yeah, okay, just finish the lower TRs.
Speaker 2:Okay, so basically we're going to do a podcast on beginning questions and answers, a new users guide to independent Scientology for people that run across the podcast, both on YouTube and Spotify, apple's podcast and things like that. So we'll just do it in sort of a Q&A format and then the conversation will go from there and however long it takes is however long we'll take. So what questions can I answer for you?
Speaker 3:All right. Well, I'm really honored that you have me on here to ask questions. We've had some really great conversation the last couple of days with when I signed up for the sample session that you offer on your website, and here we are a couple days later a few days later actually going on a podcast asking a lot of the questions I have. It's such an intriguing, intriguing topic and there's so much information. Of course, there's a lot of questions that come with that right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very broad subject it really is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm fortunate that I have a mentor that is encouraging me to go through this, and so I don't have any doubts about the subject. I'm just all for. Okay, I have a very successful mentor, he says to do this. I said, okay, it works, so I'm going for it, right? So I guess I'll just start at the top here. So you have an amazing platform you've created where everything's online. I don't know if there's anywhere else that's doing this and I haven't really seen that, but it's usually all in person, and so one of the big questions I had initially with interacting with you and doing this online possibly is there's a conversation with you should be in person while you do these auditing, because you want the theta in the room to overpower the PC's bank. What would you say about that?
Speaker 2:Well, like Hubbard says, auditor plus PC is greater than the PC's bank. No auditing can occur without communication and communication requires a stable channel to communicate over. If we can have a conversation in a podcast, we can have a conversation in an auditing session, whether it's book one Dynetics, the original Dynetics from 1950, or if we are using a theta meter over zoom, with me controlling that meter via zoom. Hang on here, my audio just dropped out. Testing, testing got it Okay.
Speaker 3:I can get it out.
Speaker 2:So it's one of those things that it works just as well, and we were talking about this the other day. The biggest concern that well, even myself back in 2009, 2010, before we started delivering remote auditing was that auditing over the internet, well, what if the PC leaves the session? Well, that that is a consideration. Has it ever happened to me, in a couple thousand hours of auditing, with a PC leaving the session? No, if you know what you're doing and you're good enough at what you're doing, that's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:Beyond that, we're all in the same room and the intention that you get across in an auditing session as an auditor and the training that you've had, it works fine.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter whether we're on opposite sides of the planet or we're in the same room. The gains are the same. The only caveat to that is that you have a decent internet connection, and anybody that's ever been doing anything with the internet and online gaming knows what latency is that there's a little bit of a communication lag between what you say and when they hear it, and you have to be aware of that as an auditor auditing remotely with a theta meter over zoom to know that there's going to be a micro delay. When you say what's your favorite fruit and you read off the fruits as an assessment to the person, there's going to be a little bit of a delay and once you figure that out, you can ask some test questions to get a read on the meter. You go. Okay, now I know what we're dealing with, and off to the races you go. Otherwise, it's exactly the same.
Speaker 3:So maybe lower level Scientologists that are co auditing each other in, like the lower grades, maybe that would that be a concern.
Speaker 2:Well, the only thing, the only thing that you can't do via zoom and we're using a theta meter is you can't do the objectives processes. You've got to be in the room with the person you're auditing, controlling the body doing those objectives processes in the room. That's the only thing we cannot do, and we have solutions for that, unless you live in lower Pakistan or something like that, where we don't have any trained auditors, then it might be a problem. Have we run into any problems? Typically no. Most people live near somebody that we know that can do the objectives with them or, worst case scenario, we can have them do the HQS course free of charge if they're receiving auditing and they've gotten a package, for example, and they can do the HQS course and they can twin up with somebody a family member or friend and have those delivered in person as a co audit, and then we can continue on with the normal auditing that we can do over the internet. But that's it.
Speaker 2:Anything else, we can handle that. There isn't any exception to that. We can deliver the lower grades, we can deliver newer dynetics, we can deliver the OT levels, new OT five, the L's, everything. We've literally done it all with exceptional results, and success stories are on our website too.
Speaker 3:Yep, saw that Amazing. Okay, another question In order to go clear is it really necessary to go through the grades or can you skip them?
Speaker 2:Well, that is a great question. Now, back in the day we used to have and they still exist and they're actually on the present day Scientology grades, the levels at the end back in the day used to have what is called the quads and that, well, at that time it was the triples. Because they're called quads? Because there's four flows and you're doing them and it's a primary process. If it's grade zero, it's on communication, if it's grade one, it's going to be on problems, grade two is going to be over at some width holds. And that was all there was, was just the quads. And then LRH had a conversation with a CS I forget who it was at the moment and the CS suggested, said look, we need to improve the gradient on this. What do you think, ron? And he said I agree. So they created a gradient approach on these expanded grades that what you're doing is, in so doing the expanded grades, you're gradiently improving the person's awareness to the point to where they confront up to auditing new era dynetics.
Speaker 2:I have a PC currently that is starting new era dynetics and she is on her 200 in first session after doing the expanded grades. Basically, one hour, hour and a half at a time, three days a week over the course of two years, and it is. It has changed her life. For success stories for those expanded grades are on the website and it is at one point in time. New era dynetics was at the bottom of the bridge back in 1981. And LRH revised that bridge a couple of times, like the one I have on the wall behind me, to where you realize that it was a lot for people to front up to doing new era dynetics and expanded grades gradually get you to the point to where you can run new era dynetics fully and completely and get the most bang for your buck out of it, as opposed to running shallow on it if you were to do new era dynetics before you did the expanded grades. Now, that's not to say that you can't do some new era dynetics in a repair program in the middle of the expanded grades or before. Some people can run it. Some people can't, but anybody can run standard, regular dynetics without a meter, because the reason why dynetics works, per LRH and he mentions this in 1960 on the state of man Congress is because anybody can be a victim. What's happened to you? Well, I was in a car accident and I broke my leg. Anybody can do that and, interestingly enough, just as a as a side, as a side note, the entire grade chart, from the bottom all the way up to OTA, is approached from the viewpoint of victim.
Speaker 2:It isn't until after OTA that you start handling it from a different vantage point. So it's a gradient approach on that and that's just the way that we do it. And it is definitely recommended to do the expanded grades because you will, you will not get the efficacy of the OT levels, you will not get. You will not get nearly as many gains because you're not set up properly. That's why the bridge is a gradient approach to it and I believe you, me, I've had people come to me and they say, yep, yep, yep, I've had all my grades and everything.
Speaker 2:I'm like you, sure, because I'm looking at this OCA graph and I'm going gosh, I'm not so sure about that. And they swear on a stack of Dianetics books and Bibles yes, I have. And then they and I don't have their folders. I can't get their folders because they're in the church and so I have to take them at their word. And then they get on the OT levels and, sure enough, I have to pull them back down and do the expanded grades on them, because they're falling on their head, as LRA puts it, because they can't run this stuff properly. Their awareness isn't there yet to do those particular levels, so you have to cut that gradient and go back to square one and clear those things up with the quads at least, if not the entire expanded grades, tldr. Yes, the expanded grades are very important.
Speaker 3:And what does TLDR mean?
Speaker 2:Too long, didn't read.
Speaker 3:OK.
Speaker 2:I see that I've read it a lot, so that's the short answer. Yeah, definitely you need to do that Now. Also, I must mention that grade zero and grade two are the longest of the expanded grades grade zero, especially Now. That doesn't mean that a person cannot get the end phenomena of the expanded grades a halfway, two thirds, three quarters and they don't have to do every process on there when they they have the end phenomena of that grade. They're done, you attest them and make sure everything's cool with it and you move on to the next grade.
Speaker 2:So it varies some too widely depending on what your current state is, whether you have any PTSD that's going on, your potential trouble source, how things are going and just how you are naturally as a being from the get go, and that that can can vary quite a bit. So it isn't necessarily everybody has to do every process, but everybody typically tends to finish somewhere between halfway to three quarters through and I sometimes I'll give people the option to you want to do the rest of these these processes anyway, just to be sure. And some people are going, no, I'm good. Others will say, yeah, let's do it and we'll go ahead and do it anyway. So the other thing that I should mention is that let's say you're, you're a past life clear. This does happen where.
Speaker 3:I know one yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, and people drop the body and then they come back into Scientology next time around and we do some auditing and it occurs to them or maybe they already know and they're originating it and you need to clean that up at a minimum. At a minimum, what you would do is if if in fact they are a past life clear and we have all that data and it's verified via the meter and they feel good about it, at a minimum we'll go back and we'll do the quad processes, which is the one at the very end of each one of those grades, and handle that and rehabilitate whatever they did last life through that. And then we'll also give them the Joe Berg security check, which is the sort of plain white wrapper security check that that we still use, modernized with some some more questions on it, because it came from the early 60s. A little bit little of that is outdated. We've modernized it with with more 21st century questions added on to it, without deleting any of the old ones, just just for the old guys.
Speaker 2:And once you're done with that now you can move on to the solo one and two course and then progress. And we have had people that were on their OT levels last lifetime and we can fix that and find out where they were at and rehabilitate whatever it was that they finished, or if something went wrong and let's say they died on it, which is what happened to me, you can then continue on. Once you get cleaned up and off, you go to continue up the grade chart on the OT levels from where you left off last lifetime.
Speaker 3:Wow, so what happened to you?
Speaker 2:Long story short. I was in the Mediterranean with LRH and in 1967, he was still unaware, on OT2, that the dates to the incidents were falsely implanted. They were wrong dated. What that means is, axiomatically, in Scientology, to get a proper. And tell me if you don't understand this and we can explain it to the listeners as well. But I'm going to use the vernacular auditor, vernacular otherwise, and we can explain it if need be.
Speaker 2:In order for something to as is which means erase, for lack of a better word you have to have the proper time, place, form, an event. That's axiom 38. And if you don't date, locate that properly and this is what was done on the OT2 materials is that those, those particular implants, were implanted with wrong dates. So, with getting a wrong date, they're still live and so you're not seeing the fruition of the whole thing. He didn't know this at the time and I was on a pilot of it and ended up dropping the body from it. I died in 1967 in the Mediterranean and I picked up the current body known as Jonathan Burke, which is talking right now and was born in East Africa, in Ethiopia. Now I live in.
Speaker 2:South Africa. So that's that's how that happened, and he later on figured out that these dates were were wrongly put in there to throw a person off of the trail. If somebody like him came along and tried to straighten this whole miasma of of implants in for lack of a better word GPM is in there Now it's all straightened out, but that was after I died that that happened, and then I picked up this body and my dad got into Scientology when I was about two and a half and became a class four auditor, and then I got into Scientology and joined staff in 1987.
Speaker 3:And how old were you then?
Speaker 2:18, when I got trained as an auditor.
Speaker 3:Wow, amazing. Yeah so that's quite a history.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know it was a research line and you know I don't I don't have any regrets on it or anything like that. I used to follow LRH around. I was a trust fund kid from old old British money and everything and I had a father who was horribly suppressive to me and my mother and to LRH and it was. It was an interesting thing and I followed LRH around from one ACC to the other and Phoenix and DC and you know, all over the place because I had the money to do so. So it was, it was a wild ride. I got in late 52, early 53 last lifetime and followed him around until 1967 and then picked this body up and got back in about two and a half.
Speaker 3:Wow, so it sounds like your memory of this is pretty clear.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, and it it was. I didn't realize that I was past life clear until I was on staff and I had already been trained and I I recall to the exact moment where I was, where I was standing, what I was looking at. I was in the course room supervising as a, as a class four auditor, and I was also the or exact sex, so I was over the technical division and I was course supervising at the time and I remember the exact moment when I realized that I was a past life clear and everything, and it was sort of like a brick wall that just collapsed in the middle on in on itself and it was. It was really amazing, but it wasn't for gosh, let's see, that would have been 1989. I didn't get the state rehabilitated officially until 2005 with Pierre ETH, the class 12 that recently passed away in Newmarket Toronto.
Speaker 3:So it was a.
Speaker 2:It was a long haul and it was an unpleasant. It was an unpleasant haul and I strongly recommend that if there's anybody out there listening to this and you think you might be a past life clear and we can verify it for you, get it verified sooner rather than later is it can be a very uncomfortable experience for a being to deal with that. That it's it's. It's very tedious to not have it acknowledged and realize who and what you really are and why.
Speaker 3:What are some of the signs of someone being a past life clear?
Speaker 2:Well, they might be a lot more able than the average bear. They might have different viewpoints, they can get things done more. They're not affected by their surrounding so much. They're very, very a to B up tone. They'll probably have pictures, that mental image, pictures of things that and it's not just well, you know this sounds familiar, but they'll actually know some certain, some things and be able to tell you about things. And it's one of those you know. You know if you know, and to get it unburdened, sometimes it takes a course, sometimes it takes a little auditing.
Speaker 2:I've seen it both ways. For me it was just standing in the courtroom supervising and boom, it just hit me like a ton of bricks and I said I need to get this handled. And the problem with the church is when that was originated to the church and I was I was this was years later at Tampa, oregon, in Florida. I originated that and they said, nope, we won't do that until you do all of your expanded grades, you need to do them anyway, which is completely false. It should be handled per LRH immediately, not give us $50,000 and we'll audit you and then we'll think about it. That's not OK and that's not how it should happen. It should be done with either a clear certainty rundown or a dynamic, clear, special intensive, which was the predecessor to the clear certainty rundown.
Speaker 2:And you find out, you get more information, you date located, get it all mapped out, verify it and we're looking for a few things which I can't go into. But if it's verified, it's verified, and then you go from there and you set up a return program to get them back on the grade chart to where they should be, get them all cleaned up and shiny and off they go to the OT levels. It's just like that and it doesn't take forever. It's a lot simpler than the church would let you know. But obviously they're going to milk you for as much money as possible. That's what it comes down to and I'm sorry to be so blunt but that's the is-ness of the situation currently.
Speaker 3:If that's 20 years, I don't know it might be different. Right, wow, that's interesting. Well, I guess I'll go to the next question here. So here's another question I asked that I thought might be worthy asking again, and so in order to be a clear and have everything erased, what needs to be cleared, to be a clear, because I asked if it was the present life traumas and it wasn't totally that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we talked about that the other day. Well, here's the deal. The definition of a clear is a being who no longer has their own reactive mind. Okay, now, in saying that, it sounds really deceptively simple, but the reactive mind is composed of many, many different components and in order to go clear, one has to pull these dynetic chains. There's also the clearing course, which is that's a whole other ball of wax if a person doesn't go clear on book one dynetics, or new era dynetics, or back in the 70s it was called standard dynetics. And what you're trying to do is you're just trying to empty out that whole hamper of dynetic ngrams, secondaries and locks on a myriad number of subjects. There's several different rundowns on new era dynetics that approach it from one angle, another angle, another angle, another angle, until the bank just goes, collapses.
Speaker 2:And in order to do that, the PC has to have a significant amount of confront to be able to look at these incidents for what they are. And it isn't just looking at these incidents, it's getting all of the information so that the pre clear can realize that they made a certain postulate about those incidents to cause those incidents to happen. On. That's just the truth of it, because at the end of the day, in dynetics, what you're trying to do is you're getting a person to look at these things that are terribly uncomfortable to look at and go. I was there, I was communicating, I created this ngram, this secondary, this lock, and once you get that postulate off, boom, now you have an as is this. They're looking at it. It's no longer a lie. There's nothing there that they aren't looking at and that's when it erases. So once you get rid of all of this stuff, you've cleared all of this stuff out, this lifetime for that person. That is clear.
Speaker 2:Now, that is not to say there is only one reactive mind. There isn't. There are hundreds. I'm going to go as far as to say that could be a hundred thousand other reactive minds that you have to deal with. And that's what you, that's what you handle on the OT levels.
Speaker 2:Now I'll reach also talks about. You're looking at squillions of years on the physical universe time track and that it doesn't take anywhere even remotely that long to handle all of that stuff, because you're dealing with chains and when you get the bottom of that chain, as far as an ngram goes, then you blow the entire chain of events. But you have to get back there first and peel that onion, that charge off, to the point to where you get to the beginning of it. And as you get more and more auditing, especially dynetic auditing, you're able to look at these incidents and instead of OK, let's handle the ngram now and the one in the 1950s, and the one in an 1810, and the one in the 1776, and then the one at 1500 and then the one at at 1100 BC, you can go from present time now and look at it and blow it on inspection.
Speaker 2:That's when you know you're in blow by inspection is is you look at it, you see it and you blow the whole chain. This is what happens towards the end of new era dynetics, or even in book one as well. You can get to a point to where you just go ah, there it is, and you're, you're looking at it for what it is because you're in really good shape, and you can go OK, this is what happened, this is what I had to do with it, this was my postulate, and you know you, as the auditor, having a hard time even keeping up with this because they're handling it so quickly.
Speaker 2:That's blowing on inspection instead of you know, incident, incident, incident earlier, incident earlier beginning, earlier incident earlier beginning. They just look at it and you know they kind of look at you and go OK, hold on, we're going to go for bust. This is the basic. Here I was, I was on this planet and this was happening and the star was about to explode and I was trying to get all these people off the planet before the star went supernova and I didn't achieve to do it and all the lives were lost, including mine. But I gave it a gallant effort and my postulate was that I I wasn't going to be able to do this. Boom, the guy goes clear.
Speaker 2:Now, I'm not saying that's how it happens every time, but it that's the type of thing. So you almost always and that's how we got into the conversation the other day is typically a person will go past life on neurodianetics and should go past life on neurodianetics because that's where the basics on a dianetic chain are, not this lifetime. Hubbard says there's nothing in this lifetime that can aberrate you. And if you want to take it a step further, there's nothing that in this universe that can aberrate you except you.
Speaker 3:It's kind of like a two step process. First someone did it to you, but then, earlier than that, you created it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'll give you an example of where this goes wrong. I met a girl online. I took her to the Bahamas on a on a cruise. She had TMJ problems from a car accident and I was sitting on the deck of the ship, we were floating around the Bahamas and everything, and I said and you know, it was out gradient for her but I'm just giving you the example because it's germane. I said and I think I've mentioned this in another podcast I said you know, the body problems that a person has ultimately were caused by them. They made a decision and as soon as we got home she never spoke to me again because she couldn't have the fact that she was responsible for her own body problems Right.
Speaker 2:Too steep a gradient, too steep a gradient. That's why you have to have objectives a purif Scientology, drug rundown, arc, straight wire, communication, grade problems and help grade over its own withholds, upsets, handling, service facsimiles that you use to make yourself right and other people wrong. Well, they hit me, so they're responsible for my body problems. That's pretty much where we were at on it. So you can't tell somebody that they have to realize it themselves that they were there. And this is what LRH says and this is. There's a twofold thing here. They were there and they were communicating. That's the only thing you can be wrong about. You were there, you were communicating, you made a postulate, the star went supernova. In the end, ultimately, no one was to blame because you decided to do that. Now he also says the only other way you can be wrong is over or under estimation of effort. But that's junior to that being there and communicating and over underestimation of effort. So that's how a thing gets wrong, is they underestimate. Gosh, I should have gotten there sooner. This is going to take more effort. I'm sorry, captain, I'm not going to be able to save those people on that planet before the star goes supernova. You could have said that, but you didn't. Instead, you wanted, wanted to try and save them. Sometimes you can't.
Speaker 2:This is how you get into these catch 22 type n grams that stick you on the track at the bottom of a dynetic chain, just as an example and of course it's totally fictitious, but that's that's how these things happen. And you're looking at chains that are billions of years long in some cases, but a person isn't going to be able to go back billions of years on something without peeling that onion of surface charge more and more, because to the degree that you remove that charge it's to the degree that you increase their awareness. So you can't just dive into the deep end of the pool without having the pro course swimming lessons, basically because you might drown. So you have to take that gradient approach in the auditing. But but if a person has a tremendous amount of confront and they're very high toned, they might be able to run newer dynamics before the expanded grades.
Speaker 2:Do we do that? No, because it's it's it's a little unfair to them and then you'd have to do the expanded grades anyway, because it cleans you up on everything that's going on in life and puts your rudiments in in life so that you can talk to the auditor, your attention isn't on your problems, you're not withholding from the auditor and yourself and other people because of over, it's a with those ones and so forth. So that's, that's the long answer on that one.
Speaker 3:So, basically, it's a very well developed system that makes it work almost or, if not 100% of the time. So do it works?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and if you don't go clear on newer dynamics, then you do the clearing course, which is the clearing course, is an older technology that is also a part of OT2. And the clearing course is is handling these things that are still holding down the reactive mind, and you're pulling the locks. And I don't mean it in a dianetic sense, I mean in a as an analog. You're pulling the locks off of the reactive mind on the clearing course and then you will go clear and then you proceed on to basically the solo level for a very brief period of time, because you learn that on the clearing course anyway, and then you get onto the OT levels and off to the races. Now the only thing that would prevent a person from going clear would be if they were horribly a potential trouble source and had a lot of suppression in their lives. But that's something that should and would always be caught way ahead of time. So that's typically not an issue these days. Back in the early 60s, before the PTSD tech was developed, that did happen and and it's important to note that it wasn't until 1964 that we even knew what a floating needle on the meter meant. So anything before 1964, if a person went released on a particular grade. There wasn't even a grade chart until 1965. And that was extremely, extremely basic compared to what we have now LRH. If somebody went clear, they had to schedule an appointment, go wherever he was at and sit down with him and he would speak to them and ask them questions and everything and he would sign off on whether they were clear or not. Before long before 20, 25 years before we had the Dynatoclear special intensive. And so a lot of people went clear. A lot of people went release and didn't know it because we didn't know what a floating needle was to say, ok, that's the end of that process. Now go see the examiner and verify that state, talk to the, get the data to the case supervisor. Yeah, this guy looks clear. Ok, let's do the Dynatoclear special intensive, the CCRD, and find out, get it cleaned up and give him a certificate so that he can move on. And in my case there were.
Speaker 2:I went clear in 1956. And it wasn't acknowledged. It wasn't acknowledged until the 60s, the mid 60s, because we just didn't have those tools. Now we do. It's much more codified and streamlined, based off of the earlier basics, and that's all he tried to do with streamline it, streamline it, streamline it off of those basics to the point that when somebody does go clear, you know it and you can verify it, validate them on it, because you don't want to overrun them. But the opposite side of this is the Ned for OTS band and all of the new OTS levels that came out in 7778, the not material was developed off of almost a mistake, because what was happening is standard Dynetics was working so well that people were going clear, didn't know it. And then we're mocking up more case and then falling ill and doing poorly in life because they had gone past clear. It hadn't been acknowledged.
Speaker 2:And LRH was one of these people, if you can believe that that actually happened. He was catatonic, bedridden and the upper executives in Scientology came to David Mayo, who was his top tech guy at the time, and said, dave, we need your help. Lrh is in rough, rough shape. We got to do something about this. David Mayo went in, did some assists on him, tried some things out and from that was Ned for OTS. Nuts was developed and used as a solution to people that had been audited past Dynetic Clear and that then developed into a rundown. And then LRH said we've got something much greater here than this and then took that data and turned it into new OT4, new OT5, 6 and 7. So it's interesting how this thing developed, because we didn't have that tech to know that somebody had gone past Dynetic Clear and what caused it, which was the upper OT levels material until 1978. So wow.
Speaker 2:It's an interesting backstory.
Speaker 3:So if someone's going through the massive amount of audios and books and there's been such a development, do you suggest someone to start at 1950, los Angeles or the Oakland or standard procedure, start from there and go through all the years, or is there a specific time you would suggest like, hey, you should start here to learn what we already figured out instead of getting confused?
Speaker 2:Well, and that's an excellent question and it's something that bears a little communication about, because when you look at that, when you look at the material let's say you're just looking at a transcript or you're listening to it and he's saying you know, this is what we do right now you have to keep it in the context of what we do right now was 1952 or 1951 or 1950. I mean, you know and I mentioned this before another podcast early on in 1950, when they were auditing Dianetics, he came out and said hey, look, this past life stuff, it's a bunch of malarkey, don't believe it. And then the very next day he said remember what I said about this past life stuff being a bunch of malarkey? Well, I was full of malarkey and it is true and this is a fact and there will be no betterment of a case unless you accept that. Do not invalidate somebody who goes past life in a Dianetic session. Now, that's 1950. So this, this same thing, started happening and he was looking for a better route to clear, a more stable route to clear for another. Well, basically, two decades after that. So the viewpoint at that time needs to be taken in the context of that's the viewpoint at that time.
Speaker 2:And my suggestion is more than anything is to learn the modern data and then, once you understand it well enough, to then go back and do the lineage. We have a public who's a completed OT seven. It took him 10 years. He's listened to every single recorded lecture and read the transcript and word clear them over a course of 10 years. And we actually have another guy on our lines has done it twice, twice, and is doing it again in a new unit of time and gets more out of it each time. So there's a lot of valuable data in there. But those procedures and techniques were always leaning towards how there's got to be a better way, a better way and so on. And you get into the 1961 to 1966 with the St Hill Special Briefing Course where there was tons of experimental processes to get to clear, and everything and almost all of them of those special techniques were mothballed by LRH. Ultimately, what do you mean by mothballed? They were taken out of use.
Speaker 3:They were taken out of use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were mothballed because they were too hard to audit, both by the auditor, and they were difficult for the pre-clares to keep up with and you were looking at hundreds and hundreds of hours to do this stuff for a better route to clear. And then ultimately what happened is, after all of that was discovered, there were bits and pieces that were taken and put on the OT levels. He understood the reactive mind better and was able to develop the OT levels, the clearing course, and guess what? At the end of the day we went back to and these are his words, not mine good old dyonetics. Poor old dyonetics was the best way to make clears, and so he modernized that using a meter round about 1967 to 1971, issued standard dyonetics, which is a book that basically is the entire check sheet and all the references, and you could go to the bookstore, buy that book, read it, apply it and go make clears, which would result in the biggest boom in Scientology ever because of standard dyonetics.
Speaker 2:And then, round about 1976 and Dan Coon, who used to work with LRH at the ranch there, he mentioned to LRH he said, sir, what about this particular thing in dyonetics? I don't remember what it was specifically, but he asked him and LRH looked over his shoulder and said to him he said I didn't write that. And so LRH got some C-org members together and they went in and they totally rewrote and added to standard dyonetics to make it new era dyonetics, even in as late as 1977. Now that seems like a long time ago, but it was just yesterday that from 1950 to 1977, people were trying to change the tech out of LRH's purview. He found out about it and went in there and said, okay, we're going to make this better, we're going to pull all this extraneous, false data out, and now we have newer dyonetics because of that. And that was the last, along with Ned for OTs. Those were the last two real big pushes in the technology before LRH passed away.
Speaker 2:What nine years later? And in between that he wrote the Mission Earth series and Battlefield Earth, two of the best science fiction stories, not in my opinion but in other great science fiction authors' opinions. He got that done because he wanted to go back to what he loved and he put the tech in those stories as well the Scientology and Dianetic Tech in there as well as little Easter eggs. It permeates throughout it. So he never stopped trying to build a better bridge. But he's also asked us to build a better bridge since 1950, all the way to now, and that's what we're trying to do. Ron Zord came up with their OT levels that add to LRH's OT levels, passed OT8 all the way up to OT48, which we also deliver.
Speaker 3:OT48? Ot48. 48. 48. So not 15, but 48. Many more Wow.
Speaker 2:Like I said, lrh, the real OT8 apparently never, ever got released by the church because they found it to be too controversial. We talked about that the other day. Whether it's true, whether it's not true, what I've seen in the Fishman documents, you know, I can no better tell you. Is there an atmosphere on the moon? Is it breathable, is it not? Is there water on the moon? I couldn't tell you.
Speaker 2:All I know is that somebody is saying this is that data and the church came up with three versions of OT8 on their own, none of which really get the N phenomena of. But if you do X-caliber, which is Ron's version of it based off of Bill Roberts and stuff, the gains that you can get from X-caliber alone are incredible. And it's just a very minor extension of LRH's net for OTs. It's instead of objective dealing with the body, you're dealing subjectively with the being, from the Knotts case perspective, and it is an amazing technology and I think LRH would be proud of it because it's based off of things that he says in the net for OTs materials on OT5 in the Knotts series. So the bridge is much bigger than people think and you can get an awful lot of gain out of that I mean.
Speaker 2:For me it's like, okay, well, I've done everything I can do. I know there's more case to handle there on my part and for other PCs or pre-OTs. Well, you can either park yourself or you can avail yourself of what is out there, and if it's true for you, it's true for you. So that's what you do. If you want to, we give people the option to do that, or they can park themselves until a later date, whatever that date is.
Speaker 3:Wow, you're dropping the nuggets here. That's amazing. A lot of data. So it really is. I hope everyone drops you a like on this video here on this podcast, because you really do share this information. That's one of the things I'm really impressed about with you is you're not really holding back maybe some really high level stuff where it doesn't make sense to talk about it, but you really are just very open and sharing your experience and information, which I think is amazing.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much I appreciate that.
Speaker 3:So when someone is a clear, they have no more of their own reactive mind. So would you say that this person doesn't get triggered anymore?
Speaker 2:I would say that they would be a lot, lot, lot less able to be keyed in. Now, that is not to say, you know, when somebody says, well, ots, don't get ARC broken, which is upset, or OTs, you know, don't get upset at all, where does it say that? Take that up with LRH. I mean, an OT can move up and down the tone scale, it will. They can be pissed off one minute and they can be in serenity of being this the next if the situation warrants it.
Speaker 2:But you know, if you see somebody, somebody getting their head cut off in a video in the Middle East, are you going to just sit there and go, okay, I'm just going to grant that guy, cutting that guy's heads off some beingness. Hell. No, you're going to get pissed off about it and go. That's an injustice. That wasn't self determined. Where did you get that? You see? You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So you know you're responsible for your own tone level and, as LRH says, you know emotion is used to get a desired result. So you know you can be magnanimous about it and go in and say, okay, everybody, we're going to retool the office and we're going to change everything. The statistics are down quite rapidly this week and we need to fix these things. And you know, honestly, that's the way you should do it. You shouldn't go in there chewing everybody a new ass. That's not the way to operate on it. But given the situation, it's up to that particular OT or clear to decide what needs to be done, and that's not just through auditing. You have to get the training to understand the mechanics behind this. And what does it take? Because intention is cause. If you sit there and say, stop cutting those people's heads off, I say right now, are they going to stop cutting those people's heads off?
Speaker 2:Probably not, unless you have one hell of a strong intention, which some people have. I'm not saying that that can't happen, but sometimes you've got to do a little bit more than that and take some action and kick some ass. Is it okay to yell at people to get things done? I don't agree with that. I don't think that you should have to do that. Do I get pissed off sometime? Hell, yes, I get pissed off sometimes. Do I let myself get pissed off as a question? Yes, that is up to the being. Does that make it okay? Sometimes not. Sometimes I get a little reactive about things when I see things that are unjust and you can't just bulldoze your way through with people. You have to be diplomatic. I have no stomach for politics. I'm not great at being diplomatic in certain situations on things where I've seen injustices that still have not been righted, and there's an awful lot of that on planet Earth with eight billion reactive minds. So sometimes you got to open up a can of whoop ass to get some things done.
Speaker 2:Lrh did that Sometimes, I think, based off of the stories, whether they're true or not, my own experience with him was mankind had no better friend than LRH. He was a great guy. He had an ego Rightfully so. Sometimes it got in the way and he didn't like to go in session with anybody that he couldn't control, which violates the definition of in session, which is willing to talk to the auditor and interested in own case, and he would pick auditors that he could control.
Speaker 2:That's not okay. Not okay, and it's part of the reason why he probably did not live as long as he could have, because people were afraid of him and that shouldn't have happened and he should have had better friends, especially in the end. I don't know if you know that story, but he was basically murdered and had had was on a viscer visceral because he had pancreitis pancreitis or pancreatitis, I think pancreatitis is the way it's pronounced and he was about to be subpoenaed by the IRS and they wanted to prevent that, the guys in the Seaworth, miss Kavage being one of them. I know several of the guys that were around at that time and none of them are upstanding individuals and instead of taking care of him and getting him handled, they took him off of his medication that was preventing him from feeling the pain of his pancreatitis and died in the back of his bluebird RV and they went and gambled his money in Reno, while he lay there dying in the back of his bluebird or I'd be what.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah. So somebody should have opened a can of whoop ass and kicked those guys out of the church immediately and said Ron, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to get you the help that you need. Now you could say people could say, well, you know, if he's such an OT, why did he have these problems? Well, you know what. You have to take care of each other.
Speaker 2:Nobody's perfect and sometimes a brother needs help and he died pretty much friendless and separated from his wife, and she didn't even know that he had died until they announced it and said well, he's continuing his researches, which you know was just a bullshit story to baffle him with bullshit instead of dazzle them with brilliance when they murdered him. So you know, nobody's perfect and absolutes are unobtainable. We've all got to help each other and that's the importance of this whole thing is that you have to use the tone level that is necessary in order to get the job done, and sometimes that might not just be serenity of being this, because the physical universe is difficult and, like he says, it's a rough universe and even the Tigers have a hard time surviving. And if you're going to survive, you've got to be a tiger, and we all know how tigers are, so right. What's true for you is true for you on that. That's my viewpoint.
Speaker 3:So basically, I mean you're, we're all going to feel emotion, yeah, but you're you're allowing yourself to choose it and so it's not an irrational emotion you have coming out, it's, it's really rational emotion, more so. So you're not, you're not being triggered in that sense where it's uncontrollable.
Speaker 2:Right, what? What does the situation call for? I'll give you. I'll give you an example. That's fictitious, but did you ever see Spock kick somebody's ass in Star Trek? I haven't watched much Star Trek, so I can't say Spock who was a Vulcan and didn't let, even though he was a half breed. He was half human, half Vulcan in Star Trek. You know he controlled his human side, but when the need called for it he would kick some ass because he had to, because it was logical. It wasn't reactive, it was logical to do so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so. So basically, when you go clear, do you know how? You no longer have a reactive mind? You'll still feel emotions, but you'll be in more control and more decisive about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like we were saying yesterday, clear is a really good start.
Speaker 3:Right. So when you're clear, you've only cleared one reactive mind, and then there's more to go.
Speaker 2:You're reactive mind but there are other reactive minds that you have to deal with more on that later on the OT levels.
Speaker 2:But it is not something that cannot be done and this as we were talking yesterday, I believe LRH says that at the lower levels you really have no comprehension for the amount of gain that you can get on the OT levels in handling these other reactive minds until you get there where typically, like I said yesterday, two and a half divisions of tone arm motion, which is a rate of case improvement or change on the lower levels and is good by LRH's standards On the OT levels, you could have anywhere in the neighborhood of anywhere between 12 and 50 or more.
Speaker 2:I've had several sessions where I had 50 or more divisions of case gain in the session and it was verifiable to the degree that I was there, it was happening and I was controlling the meter properly to get that actual amount of case gain in a session, which is incredible to get. There is so much case gain to be had on the upper levels but you have to peel that onion in order to be able to get there to avail yourself of those types of gains. So it does happen and if done standardly, you will experience it.
Speaker 3:Would you say it's an exponential benefit that happens over time as you continue going through?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It is exponential and towards the end of the latter part of the OT levels, lrh and it's not a confidential thing per se, but he says you have to look at that which you are handling on new era dynamics for OT's OT 5, 6, 7, a little bit on 4 as well. You're not only helping yourself but you are helping a multitude of other beings at the same time. So it's going to have a cumulative effect on society and that is very much the case. And somebody could say, well, things aren't looking really great right now.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a matter of perspective, it's a matter of reality and it's a matter of awareness that you are freeing beings on a very large scale on the upper OT levels.
Speaker 2:That is basically getting stuff out of your universe that is impeding you, much like a resistor does in electronics, and with that those reactive minds gone. Okay, now you can impinge, you can intend, you can postulate. I mentioned this before on the podcast when I was at the end of new OT 7, I frightened myself. I was postulating things so fast, seeing into the future, knowing when people were coming and to my shop, what they looked like, what car they were driving, what they were going to say what they were going to buy, what they were going to do, all of that stuff. Because you get out in front of the physical universe vis-à-vis the theta universe, because you have cleared all of this resistance of other reactive minds out of your universe and they're no longer holding you back. It would be sort of like cutting all the bonds on a horse from a carriage and saying run, horse, run. Very much like that.
Speaker 3:And so you say that this can affect other people as you are going through these types of clearings. Is that similar to when we talked yesterday, or I believe, when you clear a valence, you can clear that person through you. Is it in that kind of way? So then you're clearing, like maybe people in your life or people in past lives that you continue to manifest?
Speaker 2:Well, I will get to the end of it and just kind of cut to the chase. Ultimately, what's happening on Ned for OTs is you're creating clears at a mad rate. I can't say that much. You're creating clears at a mad rate. The only difference is you're not dealing with a being and a body. Okay, that is what is happening. So you are dealing with people telepathically, beings telepathically, who are no longer connected corporeally, and in so doing you are changing society at a wholesale, exponential level. And the more people you have on Ned for OTs, the more good you are doing for the planet at large and the universe at large as far as beings and the physical universe, because it is a positive change and what those beings will affect upon the physical universe. But it's safe to say that you are wholesale clearing by the end of the upper OT levels.
Speaker 3:And is that a major drive that you're basically helping and clear the universe?
Speaker 2:I mean it's more of a side effect, to be perfectly honest.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:It's more of a side effect of what you're doing. What you're trying to do is you're trying to handle its influence on your universe and what's holding you back? Now, the reasons for this? The reasons for this? Obviously you're confidential and go beyond the scope of the conversation, and it's just. You know you want to find out more about it. Get going on your bridge, basically, is what I would tell our listeners.
Speaker 2:But the fact of the matter is is that things are not what they seem and that things are far, far, far more different than you could ever imagine and you are aware of at this current point, at the lower end of the bridge.
Speaker 2:Then you will be at the upper end of the bridge and when you see this, you will start to say, by God, I need to do something about this, and that's why we do what we do at AOGP, because somebody has to hold the line here, because the church, sure as hell, isn't doing it anymore.
Speaker 2:If I told you what the church does on the upper levels versus what LRH does and suggests to do on the upper levels, as far as Ned for OTs, you would be blown away. Blown away at the manipulation that they are are foisting fraudulently upon people that have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to get there and do have the intent of they think they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, but they're being lied to in the way and the manner that they're supposed to be doing it and it isn't the way LRH intended. To me, that is the saddest of sad things that this is happening inside the church, and it's wrong, wrong, wrong. We don't do that and we're trying to fix that because LRH isn't here at the moment to help with it. I don't care why. That is All. I know that it is and, by God, I'm going to do something about it.
Speaker 3:I mean amen to that.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of clearing to be done on this planet and it might sound unicorns, flowers and rainbows-ish, but the fact of the matter is that this stuff works and if you do what he says you'll get the results. And if the more people that are doing it, the greater the change overnight you can see in the physical universe state and plus body on this planet. You can see and, like I've said before, scientology doesn't have all the answers but by God, it gives you the information to do what needs to be done to find those answers out. There is no better database of information that you can operate off of, because this guy knew what he was talking about and you can get the job done if you listen to what he says.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So off of the bridge there's various rundowns to do Right, Some that are not standard or needed, some that are, I guess, optional or-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean a lot of them are for certain situations. One of the ones that you can do is the false purpose rundown, which handles evil purposes and false purposes. The church uses false purpose rundown almost ad nauseam because Ms Kavage operates off of the viewpoint that everybody else has false and evil purposes like he does. So he's basically you know what's the term, I always forget the word he's projecting on everybody else's own over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is what he's doing, similar over to his own, which is not the case. Not everybody needs false purpose rundown. It's fabulous and if you have any evil purposes, well okay, we can handle them. But the thing is is LRH says all evil purposes come from the upper level. Not case, they are not yours, they come from that ban. And so his solution originally was expanded dynetics that handled evil purposes. Then he came up with the false purpose rundown, which is the Scientology version of handling evil purposes at the lower end of the bridge. So otherwise the evil purposes get handled on new net for OTs on the OT levels.
Speaker 2:But Ms Kavage thinks that everybody needs hours and hours and hours and hours and false purpose rundown when they don't, and there's lots of other rundowns, but they're all catered to for the most part. Something that is preventing somebody from going up the standard bridge. Let's handle that and then we can return them back to the standard bridge and they're all great rundowns. But if it isn't needed, it isn't needed. So I mean, like the L's, for example, those were created by LRH for people who were in the Sea Org originally that he needed them to be OT now, not two years from now, and so he developed these processes in order to short circuit the bridge and get these guys a bunch of horsepower now as opposed to two years from now, and then decided okay, let's make this a public action. Does it circumvent having to do the grades? Absolutely not. He says it can be done anywhere on the bridge. That's true. L11 can be done and the efficacy of it is great. You can do it anywhere on the bridge. In my opinion, you can take LRH's opinion all you want, and PR ETA told me the same thing. He said L10 and L12, much better to do after OT3 because you've gotten that huge chunk of case out of the way and you're not going to have to deal with all these other reactive minds that get in the way and audit that in order to get the result that you can get from the L's. So it's not perfect and you can do them, but you're not going to run nearly as deeply as you would if you did them after OT3 for L10 and L12. So that's another set of rundowns that you can do to really boost your horsepower, and there's a ton of them on the chart behind me, but they're usually specific case scenarios where somebody's PTS and they need a PTS rundown and they need a suppressed person rundown and either bright think rundown or interiorization rundown.
Speaker 2:Almost everybody needs an interiorization rundown at some point because they've keyed in. An interiorization rundown handles the key ends that happen from past births and past deaths. So let's say you're on an auditing process and you go exterior and that's great. We don't shoot for that anymore, but it's great if you do. But what happens a lot of the time is especially early on in auditing when you go exterior. It keys in these past deaths and past births. That shoots the case mental mass way up and you can't audit over it. So you have to do an interiorization, exteriorization rundown in order to handle those key ends of past births and deaths to the point to where the person no longer has that in re-stimulation and now you can get back onto the show with the regular grade chart.
Speaker 2:So that's something that almost everybody does at some point and sometimes they even have to do another one called the end of endless int rundown, which is the Scientology version, especially after clear if it gets keyed in again. So you know there's a tool for pretty much everything. This guy pretty much had it all solved. I haven't seen anything where I couldn't resolve it with one of his tools. The only thing I cannot resolve because I cannot resolve it or our art orders cannot resolve it is if somebody has an ethics situation and if that situation is so bad they're not going to get any gains from auditing because they're committing present time over its and withholds that prevent them from moving anywhere.
Speaker 3:As a case, what would be an example of that?
Speaker 2:Working with their neighbor while married to another woman. This is as simple as I can get it. What's happening is and this is what LRH says, we mentioned this in other podcasts as well is you've got ethics, tech, admin Ethics has to be in in order for the tech to go in, in order for the administration to go in. So if you've got other ethics going on, the person isn't going to get any worthwhile, stable gains because you need to say hey, look, you shouldn't be sleeping around on your wife. You need to handle that. And it can go all the way down to you know, you and your wife aren't getting along Well. There's an ethics situation there as well. Now, in the church, you know they're going to say you know they're going to tell you what to do and how to do it. We don't do that, because what the church doesn't do and we do is is in. Lrh says this ethics is a personal thing. Let's take that one step further. Lrh also says we do not get involved in another person's second dynamic activity unless it's stopping them from being on course or it's stopping their auditing. Now, when you say stopping their auditing, what does that mean If they're sleeping with their neighbor and they're married to another woman, it's stopping their auditing because they're not going to get any gain and you're wasting their time and their money and your time. So you have to say, look, I'm not trying to tell you what to do here, but would you want somebody sleeping around on you? Would you want your wife sleeping around on you? Probably not. And then if they said, well, I've got an open relationship and she's okay with it, Okay, Now our listeners might say, well, wow, that's a pretty broad brush. But the fact of the matter is, if the wife's okay with it, he's okay with it, the neighbor is okay with it and it's nobody has a problem with it. I'm not going to get involved, We'll continue your auditing. And if you're getting gains and that's copacetic with you, okay.
Speaker 2:Typically that isn't the case and you don't want to commit over it because it's something you're doing that you wouldn't want somebody doing to you and it's going to stall you right where you're at. But ethics is a personal thing and that has to be looked at that way and you have to be very diplomatic about it and not enforce, enforce, enforce. That's what the church does. So ethics has to be in for the tech, to go in, for admin to go in, and it's a case by case situation. But out ethics is the only thing that will prevent a person from having any worthwhile, long lasting case game. So that has to be addressed first, then the tech can go in. So that's the only thing we can't fix is you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him to drink. Is the TLDR?
Speaker 2:So it's really a person's own decision and it comes down to yeah, and I'll be blunt If you're in a situation where you're in an open relationship and your wife's sleeping with other people and you're sleeping with other people, there's something there you're not confronting.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to be on, I'm just going to be honest Okay, and that's aberration.
Speaker 2:That's second dynamic aberration, and LRH talks about this a lot. Second dynamic aberration does nothing but destroy an organization, no matter whether it's two people or it's the Roman Empire. That's what destroyed the Roman Empire is their second dynamic, folded in up on itself. And that's why it is so important to prevent that sort of aberration in an organization, because it will just go belly up. And you've got that going on with the sea org right now. In the church of Scientology, the corporate church of Scientology, they prevent people from having children because it takes them off of their post in the sea org. And if you have a kid now this was 1988, 1987, back then if you had a kid and you were in the sea org, they shipped you off to a lower org, like a regional org, like Kansas City org. They shipped you and your husband and your kid off there and said you stay there and work in that organization until the kids old enough to become a cadet in the sea org and then you can come back. It's their problem. We don't want it, it doesn't work. So this was a year after LRH died.
Speaker 2:I haven't looked at all the executive directives and stuff like that. I don't agree with what I've seen in a lot of cases. I think the sea org was a great idea to start and it went horribly wrong. That's my opinion. I think there are better ways to go about that. My opinion is is share the wealth with people. Give everybody a good life to where they have a decent quality of life. They can survive, you can survive. Everybody expands, everybody wins and everything gets done. That's not what happens with the sea org and we've seen where this this ended up. That's my opinion.
Speaker 2:Lrh felt differently at the time. I'm not going to argue with him, but I would have done it differently and it's really given them a black eye, given the fact that he's no longer around and Miss Gavage has turned it into the biggest goat fuck ever. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the honest of God situation. There's an awful lot, awful, awful lot of people in the sea org that deserve a better life for the amount they gave their lives away and are stuck in a Scientology old folks home, not allowed to go out in public because they're deathly afraid of them telling people of what the realities are, of the horrors that they are committing both to public and to people based off of their own aberrations, not LRH's aberrations, and that's where people go wrong.
Speaker 2:And I think Hubbard came up with all this stuff. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is post Hubbard. This is Miss Gavage's nightmare. It's not Hubbard's nightmare. Lrh wasn't perfect, but goddamn, he is. No, david, miss Gavage, by any means. That's where things went wrong and Miss Gavage took over the church and bullied his way to the top. Hubbard didn't have anything to do with that and never assigned him that post and never put him on post. So there's that.
Speaker 3:You mentioned exteriation. Is this similar to like if someone does remote viewing or astral travel?
Speaker 2:Same. Thing.
Speaker 3:Same. Thing.
Speaker 2:Same. Thing.
Speaker 2:It's just triggered into some point, or you have a release and just get shot out, or Well, it either happens uncontrollably or you get to a point to where you've gotten enough charge off the case that you can do it at will, which you know.
Speaker 2:It's not what we're driving for again, but it does happen. And that's part of the reason of the demise of the church of Scientology in the first place is once. Once the shadow government's got word of the fact that Hubbard had this technology that could allow them to not have any secrets, well then they had to take it over, because the last thing they want is their withholds being gotten off by somebody going exterior with full perception and saying you guys are murdering people in mass because you want to sell more tanks, right, I mean, that's what it comes down to. So they had to take it over and that's what they did. That's the long and the short of it, and that's where I'll put off and Ingo Swan and all that stuff is. They infiltrated the church, the church screwed up, let them in, didn't make sure that they weren't allowed to those materials and they made off with them, and now we've got the existence that we've got, unfortunately.
Speaker 3:So you did the exercise with me where you asked me what was your highest tone or best moment in life? And I imagined one, and I saw myself outside myself, and so did I. Was I exterior on some level? Are we exterior in those moments?
Speaker 2:You're always exterior to some level. I mean you know your viewpoint is going to be exterior to the body if you're not. A potential trouble source is what it comes down to Now. Exterior with full perception is when that typically happens at the lower end of the bridge after a big win on an auditing process. Is it stable? More often than not, no, that's. The difference is you can get exterior eyes for a while and then you're going to go back in, and that's what Hubbard found. And so he went for that in the beginning and realized it wasn't stable and said, okay, this isn't stable. That's not what we're going for anymore. We need to clear the reactive mind because these things key back in, the mass, pulls back in, but at any given time, if you're not a potential trouble source, you can look back at any moment in your life and see it external to the body, because that's where you're seeing it from. It's only temporary that you're seeing it from the body's eyes. It's not permanent.
Speaker 3:And it is in different layers and dimensions or different perceptics at different times, because you go back in your thinking, in the memory, but you weren't thinking or observing like that in the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you could almost say that it's at different layers, depending on whether you're keyed in or not, whether you're not keyed in or not, whether you're being suppressed or whether you're not being suppressed, because that's what causes it is because it's a valence issue. You're either being yourself or you're being somebody else, and you're being somebody else right back into the body you go and everything you see will be from the body's viewpoint, the limited viewpoint of the viewing angle, perspective of two eyes worth eight and sees in 360 degrees. Lrh says that and I can confirm and verify them.
Speaker 3:So if a person is completely free of all the valences, then that's the state they would be in.
Speaker 2:Yep, and that's how and why what you do on the upper level is you get rid of these other valence influences. That's all I can say.
Speaker 3:That makes a little more sense, wow, okay. And there's a lot of them. Okay, so self analysis is a version of straight wire, right? Yeah, so if you go through self analysis book, do you still have to go through the ARC straight wire?
Speaker 2:Well, arc straight wire consists of the entire set of processes in self analysis, along with a host of other processes that you do that are part of ARC straight wire as a gradient approach.
Speaker 2:And the self analysis lists are smack dab in the middle of ARC straight wire. And what you're trying to do on ARC straight wire is two things. One, you're trying to improve the person's recall. But, more importantly, what you're doing is you're improving the person's recall through running them through locks, dianetic locks and running those locks off of the case from a positive side, not a negative side. And when you're getting them to recall the time they smelled the wildflower and what was the color or what was the scent or what was the tactile sense, and this peels off these locks that are holding things in place. And the end phenomena of Scientology straight wire is that the person realizes that he or she will no longer be getting any worse and they know that there is a way out because those locks have been peeled off. That's the primary thing of it and the recall is, dare I say, a bit of a side effect, but a really good one at that.
Speaker 3:Right, okay. So so you could go through self-analysis, and would that give you a head start with the ARC straight wire? You still would do the whole thing again, just run by someone else.
Speaker 2:No, you wouldn't even do it again If you've done the list you've done the list oh really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:That's out of the way, because it's when it's done it's done. And you know, we give people the license that we assume that if they've done it that's fine and the person else would say, oh, wow, you're going to have to do it again.
Speaker 2:I mean you know you could check it and say, do you have any? You could check it on the meter and say you know, is is list one on flat on the meter and if it reads okay, then we would take it up. So it you know it can be done and you can verify it. But I, I, I myself tend to take people at face value and say have you done self-analysis? Have you done all the lists? Well, I've only done up to four. Okay, you remember where you were at. Okay, you can go from there and go from four to seven, for example, if they've done all of them and they're very good indicators on it. When I say so you did the self-analysis list right, and they the needle floats, I'm going to go. Okay, check next. Nice.
Speaker 3:Let's get on with the show yeah, yeah, he do seem to have this outlook and and to to really go up the bridge with some speed and not be hanging around with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah and uh. Given. Given the current situation on planet earth as of today and this is, uh, february 23rd, 2024, there is no time to be wasted. Run up the bridge. Lrh said in 1952, we have a limited amount of time before the technology gets to a certain point where things will be shut down and you no longer will have the right to practice religion freely. Now you people could say well, we're, we're nowhere near that. Well, I got news for you. It's a lot closer than you think. And if we were to have let's just say it wasn't even done by anybody on the planet If there was an EMP solar flare okay, an X upper, x class solar flare, which has happened in the past, in the 1800s, it's been over a hundred years If that were to happen, we would be thrown back into the Stone Age.
Speaker 2:Every meter on the planet that had a battery in it would not work again. Hmm, okay, and that, that is all I am saying. Just with that data alone. That's enough reason for me to say OK, because we use data meters, my computers are connected, connected or out in the open and aren't surrounded by a fair day cage, and we have an X class flare that causes an EMP issue. It's over. It's over and it's going to take. It would take a couple of years to restart these coal generators and everything, because you have to have energy to start these things up and God knows what could happen there, and I'm not. I'm not some doom or gloom or anything like that, but the thing is is, yeah, you can have solar panels and you could. You could run a meter off of that. Yeah, but was it any? Did you have a meter that wasn't out in the open and subject to this, this gamma ray? No, ok. Well, now you're going to have to build a new one. Got a schematic? Do you have the parts? All?
Speaker 3:right.
Speaker 2:I mean, I could go on and on and on, but you know, it's just, it's just obvious that even with that and it wasn't caused by man we have a problem. So that's my viewpoint on it is is you know, you, you could put it off and dilly dally around, but it takes less than two years to go from the bottom to the top of the bridge sometimes shorter, maybe a little bit longer, depending on the case, but the gains are worth it. And now is your opportunity, and you might not have another opportunity for a very, very long time, whether it's on this planet or another one. As crazy as that sounds, that's my reality. People can take it or leave it.
Speaker 3:And so it seems like the first step to get started is to get a personality test. Is that one of the first things that you suggest?
Speaker 2:Yeah, get a personality test. Let's see where you're at. You know whether you have any suppression going on in your life. If you do, we've got a solution for that. It's very short, very, very, very short, and it's free. If you don't, well then you can get on some co-auditing, you can buy some auditing, we can loan you a theta meter and we can get you up the bridge and you can also be on course.
Speaker 2:Training and processing go hand in hand. 50% of the gains are from training, 50% are from processing. But it's just a matter of starting. Don't put it off, because there, honestly, there isn't any other thing that you could do better, that would improve your life and the lives of others around you quicker, more efficiently, and that you could be happier and far more at cause. And it's important to note that that, what you understand you cannot be the adverse effect of and Scientology is knowing how to know.
Speaker 2:And if you understand this data that he has, that's free on our website, and you start reading this stuff and you start applying it, your life will change that day forever and into the future. If you keep applying it, clear your words, use it, help others with it, because you're not going to make it out of the soup on your own and just go off and live on a mountain top as an OT. You won't be OT for very long. You got to help others do it, and OTs work best in numbers together and you can get something done and we can turn this, turn this rock around before it's too late Again, and this isn't the first time this has happened. All of the societies on the backtrack went the same way. He's absolutely right. I can tell you with complete certainty that man will eat themselves alive in one form of a body or another, to the point to where they look for solutions to stop others from preventing them from creating, and that's where everything goes upside down and kablooey. So here we are.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I found the personality test intriguing because I took it, I got the score. You emailed me the graph of the 10 different scores and then we did another call where you explained it to me and it's amazing, you did this all for free, without any commitment or anything, which was amazing. So I really suggest that he went to give this a shot and meet Jonathan and get a feel for him and see what you can do. And it was interesting because you're telling me what a lot of this stuff meant and I went in with an open mind. But I wasn't believing you initially. It was almost like this resistance.
Speaker 3:And then I talked to my girlfriend and she's like so how did it go, you know? And I'm like he told me this information. I'm like I don't even remember the negative stuff he told me. It was almost like I shut it out until you know, I look back at my notes and pulled up another site that has more of the information so I could decode it again Like, oh, that's yeah, he told me that that's this. So just an observation, really deep Now it makes me think you tell me information and then I don't remember it. Is that like the unconsciousness?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting that you should ask that because it's very similar to auditing, because you'll go in and you'll do an auditing process and you get your socks blown off and you're like what was it? What was it? I? I realized, huh, because what's happened is is you've, as is, you've looked at this, this aberration, for what it is, and you've made a perfect duplicate over the top of it, to the point to where you can't remember it anymore because there's nothing there to remember anymore. So when you indicate something to somebody that is true a lot of times they will forget it because you've as is that thing and I've had it happen with, with, with me and in several of occasions.
Speaker 2:On L 11 with Pierre, I did this process and it was a whole track thing and all this stuff. And for years and years, and years, for the life of me, I could not remember what the hell the question was that he asked me, but I could remember what I told him about it, but I couldn't remember the question and it completely changed my life and the outlook on my life. And when I went and looked in the mirror in the hotel room after the session within that night I looked different. Physically, my face changed and that's something that happens with auditing a lot of the time, because these masses blow, they move around that.
Speaker 2:And then back in the early seventies they used to take Polaroids and cut it down the middle, so you'd the right and the left hemisphere and they keep taking Polaroids of you as you progressed in auditing that show your, your left hemisphere of your face, at the, at the beginning of the bridge and after grade four, and you go Jesus, these aren't even the same people. Wow, that's how much these masses change on the body. It's not that important, but it is an interesting test. So it's important to say that when, when you can't remember things from auditing or there's been some indication, chances are that there's some charge that has been blown upon that indication I will send you your answers after we get done with the podcast so that you can have them and compare, you know, so you can remember what it was we talked about, because a lot of the times it's that accurate that you're just like what in the world was that?
Speaker 3:Right, but then with time to think about it, I'm like, actually I can think of last week. I did this thing and that's exactly what he said. And so there's definitely a level of confront with this that's just is going to push, push, your, your, your barriers. I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean you're, you're pointing it out and that's why I said you know what. I did it with you. That you know, don't shoot the messenger. You know this is. This isn't me evaluating and, like LRH says, in science and survival it's not evaluation if it's true.
Speaker 2:Because if you say there's a, there's a guy, there's a guy burning a house down over there, and you go, hey, that guy's burning a house down, and then a Scientologist comes along and says that's n theta, you shouldn't be talking about that. What he's burning a house down. Do you see my point? And that's what that's where the church is at. On that is, they're like you know well, you shouldn't be talking about that. They restrict communication and and you can't talk about the subject anymore or make any evaluations. So when a guy is burning a house down, you shouldn't be saying that, because you're interbullying the person that's hearing it. What, what?
Speaker 2:So it's important to note that you shouldn't evaluate for somebody and you shouldn't invalidate somebody, but it is an evaluation if it's true. And if you give a proper evaluation to somebody, chances are you're indicating some sort of charge there, whether it's out ethics, some aberration, and when you do, they'll go huh, yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, we do that all the time with people, but you're not even a Scientologist. That proves that you don't have to be a Scientologist to do these things. Hubbard just figured this stuff out, gave it some, some terms and gave you the understanding of it, so that you could go out and you could do something about life where nobody had ever quantified that in the past. That's one of the things that the personality test does is it says, yeah, I could be in a lot better state, but you wouldn't have known it otherwise. And the test is spooky accurate, spooky accurate. So anyway, there's that.
Speaker 3:Right, right, my next question and you kind of started to go over this by the facial changes and I've heard this from other people too I was wanting to ask, like with people you've worked with or individuals who've been around and heard stories of what have been some of the biggest changes in somebody going through the bridge in their lives Geez, Well, I think I think some of the the most instantaneous things, as I've seen people's faces change in front of me on Zoom, doing remote auditing with a theta meter right in front of me, and I had to like rub my eyes almost and go is it?
Speaker 2:is it Zoom? Is it a bad connection? You know, it wasn't pixelation or anything like that, it was just that they were changing so much in front of me because of what we were running there and you never know when that's going to happen, but it does happen. I've. I've had people where I didn't even take them in session, I just saw something going on in their life and I said, ok, let's look at this from an ethics perspective here and showed them some information, gave them the data along with some policy for administration because that's what ethics is, is it's personal administration and said go forth and apply my son. And they said you know, as soon as I got off of Zoom with you, my phone started ringing People wanting, wanting my services. Literally, my phone started ringing as soon as I got off of Zoom with you. I've had people go in session and they couldn't get a job and they sent out 100 CVs and then they said immediately. I got more calls and more offers after that session and I had abs of the phone did not ring once because you've opened up those flows. This is real. This is, this is what happens.
Speaker 2:L11, the biggest problem with L11. And this is this is funny the biggest problem with L11 and I've actually had to start warning people before I do it with them is L11 has to do with doing this, and when you get the person through with L11, all they want to do is go out and play the game of life, because they are so unencumbered by all of these over some withholds that have been holding them back that all they want to do is go out and create and play, which is ultimately almost a liability from getting up the bridge, because they just want to go out and do their thing and do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, and they're feeling so great that they're bulletproof and they just go out and do, do, do, do, do and they're so unbridled, which is amazing what you can do. The Al's are tremendous for that sort of thing and that's what you want to see. That's standard tech. So I've got stories for hours.
Speaker 2:There's that story I told in the podcast of the lady where we did pro TRs for three days and then a couple of months later she almost knocks me over on the sidewalk on Cleveland Street in front of the Fort Harrison Hotel and I didn't recognize her because I beat her up for three days unknowingly on TR zero bull bait about her weight and she went through boxes of clean access. And all this and the only reason I recognized her was because of her eyes and she said I wanted to thank you. You changed my life by telling me I was fat and that I had to sit there and confront the fact that I wasn't doing anything about it. She lost over a hundred pounds and she was elated and I didn't even recognize her. She lost so much weight that wasn't even audity, that was just pro TRs and that had to do with confront and confront is auditing and that's why TRs get case game.
Speaker 2:So you know I mean the amazing things that you can see with training, the amazing things you can see with auditing, the amazing things you can see with putting policy in an order into an area so that people can function properly and that flows can come into them. You know when we started doing the podcast. We done podcasts in the past, but when we started doing podcasts and we started answering these questions that people had and having podcasts on subjects that people wanted to hear, since then we've had more business than we can deal with because we've opened the flows and, like LRH says, it's a simple thing Outflow is holier than inflow. Outflow, outflow, outflow and you will receive flows in. That's how auditing works as well, but it's a third dynamic auditing, by getting it out there and it's going to come in from one area. It's not the area that you outflow to, but it's going to come in from other areas. This is why Coca Cola spends hundreds of millions of dollars every year putting up pictures of Coca Cola bottles because outflow is holier than inflow.
Speaker 2:Lrh didn't come up with this, but he observed it and he told us about it. Simple, simple, simple stuff. But it's that everybody says there's common sense. Well, scientology is not so common common sense. You just have to avail yourself of it. That's pretty much what it comes down to, and it changes people's faces and their spaces, and on, and on, and on, and on and on. Just amazing.
Speaker 3:So this is interesting because it's like you're going into the subject that's talked about a lot with law of attraction and creating your reality and manifesting, but there doesn't seem to be anything that really even talks about that that I've seen. It's just you're getting the clearing and your decisions just happen easier. It just seems to be the viewpoint. Is it different than that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what it comes down to is the book, the Secret. It's the same thing. It's the same thing, it's just you're putting it in a different way. The only thing in Scientology that you're doing is is you're stopping the being from being in their own way. Get them out of their own way, because you're the only thing stopping yourself, and you could tell somebody that and they could say well, I can do that on my own. Okay, maybe you can, if you, if you, if. Good luck with that. And, like Dr Phil says, how's that working out for you? I mean, that's that's. The thing is, is you either have the map or you don't. Nlrh managed to come up with a map with workable things that get you to that destination, because if you knew what was wrong with you, it wouldn't be wrong with you and you wouldn't need Scientology or anybody else and wait for it. You wouldn't be here on planet Earth and you wouldn't be in the physical universe to begin with, and you wouldn't be listening to this podcast Now, would you?
Speaker 3:You mentioned why we all come to Earth as some kind of how did you determine Universal dumping ground. Universal dumping ground. Okay, yep, can you expand on that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Well, if you look at where Earth is in the Milky Way galaxy, it's on the outer rim. They mentioned this in Star Wars a lot too. The outer rim planets, right, and we are an outer rim planet, and this is the Wild West as far as from a galactic viewpoint, and it is not the only universe either. I must point that out. It's not this. The physical universe is one of many universes and these, these races, a lot of the races that we have come here, almost all of them have faster than light travel and they know how to fold space for lack of a better word and, to use a Dune Frank Herbert concept, they know how to fold space and take a shortcut through that, that first universe on the left, in order to go from their front lawn to planet Earth on the outer rim of the Milky Way galaxy, and they might jump from one galaxy, the Andromeda galaxy, or the other side of the physical universe and get here in a matter of moments, because they understand these concepts and we live in a barbaric dark ages society and universe, in the physical universe, where you have these unruly beings that will not abide by these other physical universe societies that see us as a problem.
Speaker 2:So what do they do? They say, ok, off to Rikers Island. You go, and that's planet Earth, and they send you here, and then they keep you playing this game and, for lack of a better word, I'll use sting from the police's term a soul cage and they'll give you so many years that you can live. And you can do this live, die, repeat, live, die, repeat, live, die, repeat. And so you're off playing that game and they don't have to worry about you anymore and you're no longer a problem for them, because you're not stopping them from creating what they want to create. That's it. That's the simplest way I can put it. And this has been going on and is still going on to this very moment that we are doing this podcast Period.
Speaker 3:I know this for a fact, and so you were saying that you're saying that there's reasons why we're here, whether we're some kind of we were some kind of criminal or criminals government protesters, perverts, tax evaders, artists, anything that didn't agree with the prevalent society within which you were in, whatever that society is.
Speaker 2:And there's an awful lot of people that have been here far, far longer than we have who are far, far more degraded, and they are in very, very rough shape as beings, and this is what you handle on the upper OT levels. That holds you back. That's all I'm going to say about that. Most of the people listening to this podcast are able enough to be the faten in charge of a body and they are in less than awful shape, but it's all relative and we've been sent here and put here and contained here for the purpose of getting us out of the way of somebody else's forward looking project that we were impeding. That's the long and the short of it.
Speaker 3:And Scientology gets to realize that.
Speaker 2:Somebody's. Yeah, okay, and there's more and more every day. Like Elehrich says, the universe is littered with life. Life is everywhere. You can't keep a good life down, it's everywhere. Every planet has some form of life, no matter how cold, no matter how hot. I'm not going to say there's life on the sun, obviously you know that's, you know who knows. But he says truth is far more stranger than any fictionalized story you could ever create in this universe. And we are. We are basically mushrooms being fed shit and kept in the dark, because if we were educated to what the true nature of this universe and other universes were, there is in no way they could contain us. So what do they do? They lie to us. They lie to us, and it's Scientology gives you the answers to a lot of these lies, to reveal them, and once you have that data, you can't keep a good thing down.
Speaker 3:And one of those big lies is the meanings of words. I think you said right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the meanings of words is is our educational system the omission of information? Elehrich says the hardest thing to spot is a missingness. These omissions, these alterations are all fraudulent points to keep us within a container of a reality that they want us to believe, and that is is that man is from mud. You are an animal, you have a brain. Your brain is you. You are not a spiritual being, and that's how they begin to control you. And don't look behind the curtain to see the Wizard of Oz by any means, and that's why they stopped Scientology from progressing as an organization back in the late 70s.
Speaker 3:Wow, not just a threat to the psychiatric industry?
Speaker 2:No, the psychiatric industry is just a control mechanism by a bunch of shitty ass beings that want to control people and suppress them, and they think that man is an animal. That's the long and the short of it. That's my opinion, and there are many, many, many, many, many other people who are not Scientologists that see that that is what is going on, because that's how you keep a good thing down, as you tell them that they're ADHD and this and that, and then you know, take this pill and it'll solve all your problems, and it just makes them worse. And then they go shoot up the local high school. Yeah, and that's not working, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, while you go up the bridge, not only are you clearing yourself, you're becoming more able, feeling better. How about abilities being released?
Speaker 2:Well, those abilities are released meticulously by the grade chart. In doing those things Now you may or may not. As a person getting auditing, you may get more gain than the other person because you might be higher toned, you have less in your stimulation. That's not to say that you have less case. Not everybody has the same amount of case. Maybe you're past life clear, maybe you've been a really, really good being and you just happened to get picked up in a group grab for beings and you didn't belong here in the first place. Yeah, maybe Jesus Christ was one of those people. I could only begin to, you know, hypothesize on that, but you know he obviously if in fact he did exist he obviously was being there and communicating more than he probably should have, because they sure as heck didn't like him causing the good effects that he was causing.
Speaker 3:So there are abilities that are released, like psychic abilities.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, yes, I mean there are processes you can do that give you these abilities of being telepathic and things like that. Lrh developed a process. I was on staff, I worked with his original communicator at Andy Bagley, and LRH developed a process where you could read other people's minds and he had to create a process to turn it back off because people were getting so upset about the things that they were thinking about other people, which is totally real to me, you know, because if a person has a reactive mind, they're going to say critical things about you. You know, all her calves are fat. She's got cankles. George, I thought you were my best friend, you know that sort of thing. And it was ARC breaking, causing upsets with people so much that he had to shut it off.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, the sky is the limit. There's all kinds of processes, early processes that can give you a lot of abilities. But what he found was is that the case has to be set up for these things, for these abilities that can stay in, because otherwise it's it's fleeting and it doesn't last very long. There's all kinds of abilities that can be gained. I mean, if you do the original OT levels that the church no longer does. Some of those abilities, I'm going to say all of those abilities that he presents to you on the original OT levels are nothing short of mind blowing On. You know the abilities that you can gain, to where one of the drills I believe it's on original OT six is you get in calm with somebody that hasn't communicated with you and the drill is send them a message telepathically to get in communication with you. And they do. It does happen every time. It happened for me, it happens for everybody that I do it with, because you can do it the way he says to do it, you can do it.
Speaker 2:And basically, the original OT levels and probably why they were removed more than anything is because they're positive gain levels and you're getting a person to actually show that they have OT abilities and validated so that they can go out and be OT. That's the last thing the powers that be want to have is a bunch of OT's roaming around with abilities. Right, yeah, I still haven't been able to uncover why the original OT's were mothball and I have nothing in writing to say that LRH is the one that decided that. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but the fact of the matter is is that they show you OT abilities that he just says you know, basically, check this shit out. And you're like what? And he says, yeah, just go ahead and you do it. And you're like, oh, my fucking God, I can do this. And it's not just in your head, it is being done. You are doing these things and you know, you know unequivocally that you can do these things and you can do it whenever you want to do them.
Speaker 2:And again, if you're an OT and you're doing bad things, you won't be OT for very long. But if you're an OT and you're doing good things. Yeah, you can keep on having those abilities gained and use them for good. You know, with great power comes great responsibility. That's what's important about abilities gained is you can't have ability if you're doing it for the wrong reasons, because it's contra survival to the eight dynamics, and the eight dynamics will fold up on you and you're no longer an OT and the next thing you know you're living on planet Earth in the outer rims of the Milky Way galaxy, going. What the fuck happened? See my point. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 3:I contacted my twin and I said hey, I'm going on this podcast to ask this man some questions. He's a class 808 and perhaps beyond, and so he mentioned how one of our teachers at the local center she was saying how we want to find more people to be auditors because I want to have someone be able to audit me when I come back around this next life, and so he was wondering why would you want to do it again if you've already done it? Do you collect more body Thaetans or ngrams as you come through, or what's the purpose of that?
Speaker 2:Well, I already said, it's no fun being dead. Thaetans got to have a game and you know this is my second time around. I was doing it last lifetime, I'm doing it this lifetime and I'll be doing it next lifetime. I can't think of a better, a better game. I've been around a really long time as a being and played lots of Star Wars and Star Trek games and lots of weird stuff to the right and to the left of that, and you know it always ended the same way and you know it's the physical universe and it's, it's, it's. You know it's like an open world MMO video game. There's only so much you can do.
Speaker 2:And once you've done that stuff enough, and you're aware of the fact that you've done all these different things and everything, you start looking at it and you go well, I need to do something more for the greater good. That I enjoy and I personally I enjoy helping people and that that's that's my thing. I enjoy it. I just I like being a musician like yourself. I like causing good effects, I like rhythm, I like being on that magic carpet ride with four or five or six other guys creating my own time, and that's what music is. Is it sort of a. It's sort of an analogy to what you're doing as a Scientologist and as an auditor is you're creating a magic carpet ride for other people and when you do that, you pull them along, they pull you along and you create a new reality.
Speaker 2:And stop getting stuck in these crazy ass games in the physical universe. How long, how much, how many more of those games do you have to play? How many times do you want to play? Play Half-Life or Diablo or whatever. At some point you've, you've done every quest in the game. Then what? Well, it's time to make. Create a new game and get the hell out of this universe and create something different. That's my drive on it and I can't think of any other better endeavor than to do this.
Speaker 2:Now, does that? Does that mean that I don't like to play drums? No, does it mean that I I don't have other interests? No, but I do understand the universe and that there are other universes and I know that I can go from one side of this universe to the other and I can go to other universes and there are other beings there that are significantly different than we are and have different viewpoints, and to me, that's the coolest thing ever, and LRH gave me the ability to do that, and I can help somebody who's dying and prevent them from dying for a few hours to a few days, to whatever, and put them in touch with people that they would no longer, ever have anything to do with anymore, and repair relationships and build affinity back so that they can say their last goodbyes, and to me there isn't any other greater purpose. None, sorry, I get a little misty about that.
Speaker 3:But yeah it's.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that he's given me that ability Wow, amazing. And so, for all of our listeners and Michael, we appreciate you being here and we will see you on the next podcast on Monday or Tuesday, and Namaste, and we love you. Bye for now.