Embark on a transformative exploration of the mind and spirit with Michael Grady, our esteemed guest, as we uncover the intricacies of Independent Scientology and the potent influence of auditing. This episode promises to shed light on the technical complexities and personal discipline required to navigate the enigmatic journey of self-discovery within this belief system. We share our latest initiatives aimed at demystifying Scientology for newcomers and offer valuable insights for those seeking spiritual progression, setting the stage for a profound discussion on the foundational principles that could revolutionize your understanding of the self.
Together, Michael and I dissect the gradient scale of responsibility and its impact on our daily lives, discussing how the act of helping others can magnify one's abilities and create a cycle of continuous improvement. We contemplate the nature of mental circuits, self-determinism, and confront some of the more esoteric aspects of Scientology, such as clearing entities and enhancing supernatural awareness. Our conversation spans the profound implications of Operating Thetan levels to the contentious issues surrounding drug influences on auditing and the unique challenges presented by overrunning processes.
As we wrap up, the gratitude we feel for our listeners is palpable. This session has been an eye-opening journey, touching on everything from the transformative power of auditing to the societal impact of spiritual advancements. We look forward to future episodes where we'll continue to inspire and enlighten, joined by the ever-curious Scientola Girl. It's a heartfelt farewell, but the excitement for what's to come lingers, with the promise of deeper dives into the world of Scientology and the human psyche.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Embark on a transformative exploration of the mind and spirit with Michael Grady, our esteemed guest, as we uncover the intricacies of Independent Scientology and the potent influence of auditing. This episode promises to shed light on the technical complexities and personal discipline required to navigate the enigmatic journey of self-discovery within this belief system. We share our latest initiatives aimed at demystifying Scientology for newcomers and offer valuable insights for those seeking spiritual progression, setting the stage for a profound discussion on the foundational principles that could revolutionize your understanding of the self.
Together, Michael and I dissect the gradient scale of responsibility and its impact on our daily lives, discussing how the act of helping others can magnify one's abilities and create a cycle of continuous improvement. We contemplate the nature of mental circuits, self-determinism, and confront some of the more esoteric aspects of Scientology, such as clearing entities and enhancing supernatural awareness. Our conversation spans the profound implications of Operating Thetan levels to the contentious issues surrounding drug influences on auditing and the unique challenges presented by overrunning processes.
As we wrap up, the gratitude we feel for our listeners is palpable. This session has been an eye-opening journey, touching on everything from the transformative power of auditing to the societal impact of spiritual advancements. We look forward to future episodes where we'll continue to inspire and enlighten, joined by the ever-curious Scientola Girl. It's a heartfelt farewell, but the excitement for what's to come lingers, with the promise of deeper dives into the world of Scientology and the human psyche.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Hey there, independent Scientologists. Discover a new perspective to your bridge by visiting aohyephngporg. Get in session with remote auditing using the Theta Meter. Are you curious about where you stand? Head on over to aohyephngporg now and take our free personality test. Join the growing group of independent Scientologists today.
Speaker 2:Hi and welcome to another AOGP Outside of the Church podcast brought to you by the Advanced Org of the Great Plains AOGP. This is Season 7, episode 18. Part two of our podcast. On a bit of a Q&A, I'm here with Michael Grady. Michael, how are you?
Speaker 3:You were fantastic. Thanks for having me back. Last episode was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Thank you for being here. It was a lot of fun, and I think this one will be a lot of fun too, so let's just jump right into the deep end of the pool. What questions do you have, as a new independent Scientologist that I could answer and we can discuss?
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, it really is an honor to be able to sit and ask questions and talk about these things because you're so experienced. You've been through, I guess, all of it, you know or beyond what I can even conceive, and there's a lot of free information online to get started and kind of satisfy some curiosity. But it really seems like you're not really going to progress much without someone to help guide you through this. Right, I found some sites and things where it looks like you could get a partner and just like, go through a lot of these things and try to go through the grades. But how much of a need do you think it really requires to have someone like yourself or a case supervisor to lead you through the grades and up to clear and so forth?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a great question. I think it bears noting that you know the definition of the word Scientology is knowing how to know, and there are a tier of competency levels that are not part of Scientology but should be competency where the bottom of this pyramid is unconscious incompetency you don't know what you don't know. So that's really really, really important that people understand you don't know what you don't know. And when you run into people YouTube, for example, recently, facebook, reddit, that sort of a thing is they're not very, very, if at all, well versed in the subject. They don't know anything about it. All they know is what negative things that they've heard, but they've never done anything.
Speaker 2:So it's one of those things where you really have to have the appropriate information, like the series of steps, the check sheet for a course. You have to be able to have self discipline to clear your words, above all else, know the three barriers to study how to use a dictionary, and self discipline, self discipline, self discipline, and you could. You could probably do all right on your own without doing courses on our online course room, that sort of a thing. We're not here to make money. We're here to deliver Scientology. It was intended to be delivered and and free beings.
Speaker 2:That's what we do, and it's my opinion that one would be a lot better off with a tour guide going through the Congo to tell you where the hippos and the crocodiles and you know all these other threats that jump out at you and might otherwise take you down or take you out, and there are a lot of them, and it's not something that is necessarily presented in the materials, because it falls outside of it. That's the best way that I could describe it. Can it be done? Yes, does it get done? Not very often Right, people tend to give up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, it's a, it's a quite a process. From what I've looked at, I mean, I don't, I don't know yet for sure. And so you speak about unconscious incompetence. What? Where does that come into play? Because you have someone like yourself who's experienced, who knows the ins and out of this. And is it someone looking down and going through OK, grade zero First, I'm going to go through and is it that you have so much experience knowing about all these processes and what can go wrong and they are not even going to know what to know about in those circumstances? Is that how you're saying it or is it a different way?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean you, you wouldn't know that something needed to be known. I mean there the technical. The technical dictionary that was written in 1975 is is all we currently have. We have a project on the books to rewrite the technical dictionary using our AI platform to where these definitions are put in there, and then we have a sub project of a, a much more shallow gradient dictionary that's similar to an abridged dictionary, which we already have. That's modernized from the 1971 version.
Speaker 2:But the thing is is that there are many, many, many definitions in in auditing especially, that one needs to know that you only come across and become aware of with seasoned Auditors, people who are professional auditors, because they've they've been there, they've gone through that territory, they know where the crocodiles and the hippos are, and these are particular pieces of information that you would not otherwise find on the materials in your check sheet. But you need to know. One of the biggest things is how to handle an emeter, to recognize what an instant read on an emeter is and and be able to call that every time it happens on the needle and get in getting in session I mean the first time you take a PC in session. You're going to be scared shitless Because you got somebody in front of you that's expecting you to do something for them and you need to know how to do it seamlessly, flawlessly, because you would want the same thing done for you. You don't want to feel like this guy's going to mess me up. That's, that's a big, big part of that. And and where that comes in is looking up your words on student hat, applying that data to the pro TRs course and doing the TRs. And that's where it all begins is with with the TRs, because, like Hubbard says, metering and TRs are the only things that you that where you can go wrong as an auditor, and it is the sorest of points, the sorest of points. It's almost non existent now in the field where somebody does something on their own Because there's nobody left, there's nobody to refer to. I mean, you know all my peers from from the late 80s. Then none of them went into the independent field. There's a couple of them that are still in the church but they're not auditing. I mean, it's it. That's why we're here is to create auditors, because I'd like to have something to come back to. Right, and you know, that's that's.
Speaker 2:The thing is that there's this the devil is in the details and it's not. It's not that it's complex, but it's such a vast and diverse subject that you have to have an understanding of this stuff. I still have realizations about my training in the 80s and look at that and go man, I was young and dumb, I didn't have all that information and I run across stuff on our AI platform known like where was this? When I was doing my classics course, because it wasn't on the check sheet and it explained something to me. And I have a realization of cognition and epiphany, whatever you want to call it, and I'm like damn, I wish I'd known that 25 years ago. You know, so it's.
Speaker 2:It's the little things that add up. And if you know how to be there and be comfortable on protears and handle any situation with communication alone, then you can add on the emeter. Then, once you've mastered the emeter and you're completely comfortable with it, your basics are the most important thing and that's what I got, better than anything else, was training at the flag land base in 88. I had my basics in so sharply and I did hundreds and hundreds of emeter drills, not just for myself but with other people, and I actually learned more from drilling other people than I did doing the drills myself, because I saw where things went wrong and I was like, and I really dig training people. So that's something that stuck with me to this day and it really helps to have a guide that can say okay, hold up here.
Speaker 2:You see what's going on with this tone. I'm hearing it's way high. He's sitting across from you, you've cut his communication and I'll say it and the needle will fall on the emeter. The charge comes off. It's an indication. Now the guy can get reads and he's like what? Yeah, here's the reference on this. It's not on the emeter course. We just we just indicated the correct bypass charge, which was beefing up the guy's reactive mind because he's pissed off at you because you kept cutting his communication. And right there the student goes damn, I'll remember that forever Because that's yeah. And you just right, you don't get that when you're training by yourself. Yeah, tldr, yeah, you need somebody to help you with it. That's my opinion, wow.
Speaker 3:Okay, that makes a lot of sense, yeah, yeah Well, next question I have is on the bridge to total freedom, there's a couple main goal goals to get, which is, of course, the level clear, messed clear. And then the one before that there's a level of release. Could you describe what the difference is between release and clear?
Speaker 2:Sure, a release is on a particular topic or subject where the grade chart behind me we've got.
Speaker 2:You got your objectives, you got your purif, your Scientology drug rundown, your happiness rundown, you got grade zero through five.
Speaker 2:Each one of those has a particular zone of subject matter that you're going. Release on. Grade zero would be communication, and so what you're doing is you're having these tiny little wins gradient on each process that is has been created by Hubbard and they've been put all together by him and his team over over decades. That gets you to be able to talk to anybody about anything, anytime, anywhere, because if you don't have communication, you don't have anything in auditing, for example. So each one of those builds upon the next, builds upon the next, builds upon the next and then at some point the person releases this mental charge and that's not erased, and we'll get to that in a second. It's released, it's keyed out, it's gone away from the person. They don't have any more compunction about talking to an auditor or their girlfriend or their boss, or you know the IRS, or you know the FBI or whatever. They'll be able to communicate about anything, anytime, anywhere, on any subject. That is a release on that particular subject.
Speaker 3:So with that, mean like the person still has an engram from a past life, but now there's no secondary or lock in this life. On that same track, yeah, they still have in their field, but no present life thing still Right. So they've sort of had what you could actually call it a release on it.
Speaker 2:It has keyed out there's nothing currently restimulating in this lifetime that particular engram. But that particular engram has not been erased in the posture that has not been gotten off about that, which could have been last lifetime, or it could have been a squillion years ago on planet in the dead ebb area or something like that. I mean, you know it could be anywhere. So, because that engram is still there, if you're going to be able to do that, it could be anywhere.
Speaker 3:So because that engram is still there. If you were to leave the person at communication release at some point, there could be a restimulation where a new one could be created. Then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's in chains. And that's the difference between Scientology Auditing and Dynatoc Auditing. Scientology Auditing is keying out, keying out, keying out, keying out. You get a release on that topic. Communication problems, help over its withholds, arc breaks, change service facsimiles, those are all key outs that build up to a release on that particular topic. Then you get on to Neurodionetics. The guy is in really good shape because he's gone release on all these things. Now you start approaching him from a Dynetics standpoint with Neurodionetics and you handle his drugs because there's the Dynetic Neurodionics drug rundown. And then you get down to business on whatever engrams, based off of several different methodologies to approach it from different angles, until you've erased all of those engrams which usually lead back to a past life, and you've handled the basic engram. You erase that. That handles all of the engrams up to present time. Boom next. So the guy goes clear. So you're keying them out, keying them out, keying them out, erase, erase, erase, clear.
Speaker 3:So if you key out a secondary or a lock or an engram in this lifetime, is it then harder to then find that engram because there's no more charge to locate it?
Speaker 2:No, the engram is still there. You've just taken some of the charge off of it so that it's more real for the person. It would almost be unfair to handle a series of locks and secondaries and not handle the engram, because that's you know. Basically you're violating the auditor's code. If there's something on deck, handle it, erase it and cycle on the whole thing. Complete that cycle of action, start, change, stop. Now, that's not to say that that doesn't happen or that it could happen, but you don't want to leave something partially destimulated but yet still restimulated, right, even if it's not this lifetime, because it's still going to be in restimulation and something might pop up. So the way auditing works is it handles, it, handle the work as it comes to you and you get everything to a point to where you've either released, keyed it out, released it better, erased it as from a dynamic standpoint to where it's no longer on the hard drive of the reactive mind, so to speak.
Speaker 3:Yeah, interesting. So I've seen in the Scientology videos they talk about a basic basic, that everyone has one basic basic.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a basic engram on any given chain and one could say and Hubbard talks about this on the St Hill special briefing course that even as crazy as this is going to sound to people that haven't done anything in Scientology, even coming into the physical universe, as a Thayton, a quote, unquote long time ago, but yet just yesterday, from a Thayton's viewpoint, that's an engram and you can handle that basic basic of coming into the physical universe. That would be the ultimate of all basics on it.
Speaker 3:Wow, so you could go to that basic basic and then it takes care of other basic basics.
Speaker 2:Might might not depends on the being, because all cases are the same, but the network and the degree of and we're getting really technical here of the considerations of the being and how things are set up for them, because ultimately, at the end of the day, the only person that's holding your aberrations in place is you. But getting somebody to front up to that is not something you can do, and that's why you have the grade chart take charge off, take charge off, so on and so forth, to where their awareness becomes higher, their ability comes higher, their confront, especially, comes higher, to where they can now look at these things. Because if you told somebody like we talked about last time, you told somebody, look that car accident, you caused it, they're going to go. Dare you, I'm a victim, and that's how that sort of thing happens. And until a Thayton can take responsibility for this and this is very systematically on a gradient you get to the point to where, yeah, I was there and I was communicating and I decided to go out that day and that's all it is. It's not making somebody wrong. But if you're a lower toned individual, your viewpoint on how things occurred is going to be altered because you're not willing to confront and take responsibility for something. The tone scale is just a series or level of affinity, reality, communication and understanding and as you get auditing, your tone level improves, your awareness, improves, your perception, improves to where you can then stand there and go, yeah, I did this. And then, once you you can do that now you're as easing any lie or alteration behind it and communication, knowingness and beingness are all the same thing To the degree that you can go, yep, I can see how this, all this stuff happened and how these dianetic chains, these implants and all this stuff got me to be this person at this point. This is what I see all the time with people in session, especially on L11.
Speaker 2:People have been making decisions for a very, very long time and staying in a particular mode of operation due to something that they agreed to. The only person that made them agree to it is themselves. Nobody forced them. There's an actual reference on that called the why Satan's Mock Up, and it explains why n-grams are there. I can't get into it. It's a confidential reference, but it explains why n-grams are there and it has everything to do with the being and not something that was done to him. It's that simple.
Speaker 2:But you can't tell somebody at the lower end of the bridge on that and accept them to accept it, believe it, know it and act on it. You just can't, you just won't. That's why they're here in the physical universe. You could say that we've descended from the theta universe down to the physical universe and we're on a quote unquote lower plane because of this type of phenomena. But the phenomena is created in agreement with the physical universe. You've gone into agreement into the physical universe and said, okay, I am a body, I control a body, or, when your awareness comes up, okay, now you get that we're all in the same room. There's no time, space, distance or anything like that, and the physical universe is just a quote unquote construct or a different plane of existence that you bought into. That's why you have to audit the guy, to get him to look at this stuff, and you can tell him all you want. He has to know it himself and the only way to do that is through auditing. That's pretty much what it comes down to.
Speaker 3:So a person? Do they need to see and come to a realization of why each specific engram occurred for them to make sense of oh I made this decision, or I created this lie, or I created this postulate which then created me being abused or affected, or have this accident happen, or they had the engram created? Do they have to know the reason specifically or could they just like well, you know what, I created, it somehow Does it?
Speaker 2:have to be one or the other. Dot, dot, dot dot. Well, I'm not seeing that to the thing, and we've had podcasts on this where we talked about the states of being. You've got the not-is-ness, you've got the altered-is-ness, you've got the is-ness and then you have the as-is-ness. To get something to cease to persist. You need to look at it as it truly is, whatever that is.
Speaker 2:And in getting a person to run through a dianetic incident over and over, they're going from not-is or alter-is-ness of what really happened. They're picking up more and more information, whether it's original dianetics or metered dianetics or it's Scientology grades processing. You're getting the person to realize and look at things, that they're changing their mind about something. They're getting more data. So it's not-is meaning it's not there at all. I can't even remember the incident. It's all black all the way down to yep. This is what happened, specifically time, place, form and event. I made this decision about this. Oh my God, I can't believe I did something that silly Poof. Then you have an as-is-ness, you've made a perfect duplicate and then it goes away. It's like canceling out in mathematics. It's the same thing, same concept.
Speaker 3:Like a homeopathic remedy. You match the frequency.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's the physical universe version of that Yep, that's right.
Speaker 3:I've heard in a clearing Congress audio, lrh, say if there was a one-shot clear, it would be that the person takes 100% responsibility for everything on their life, on all levels. Something to that degree I'm paraphrasing, and that made me wonder. Well, if a person has a core belief that they just accept I'm creating everything, everything that's happening to me is my responsibility. With that in itself, start to release a lot of charge without recalling anything specific.
Speaker 2:If a person could do that, they would be doing that, they would have already done it. That's my best answer on that. But from a viewpoint of absolutes aren't obtainable, but saying okay, maybe not absolutely, somebody could do that, they would be in really great shape and they would be really successful, and they probably dare I say, at the extreme end of the spectrum, probably wouldn't be playing a game in a meat body. Wow, so we're looking at the lower end of the spectrum. You can be a molecule and a pebble of sand or grain of sand on the beach. That's to the degree that you're irresponsible, or you could go yeah, I don't really need to play a game in a meat body. There are lots of other things I'd like to do, and sometimes I just want to observe these other people, or you would have no interest in it, and there are lots of other universes and lots of other things to do that are completely different and outside of our if you'll excuse me saying this our comprehension, because we are at a certain tier and you're not aware of the tiers above you until you get there. That's what this whole thing is about is raising awareness, raising responsibility, of awareness, and responsibility also comes down to if you can't help other people, you won't other beings, you won't be there long. That's ultimate responsibility. That is knowledge, responsibility and control. You know it, you're responsible for it and you're in control of it. That is connected to affinity, reality, communication and understanding. So that's that's the whole idea. Raising the ARC, raising the KRC gradiently, gradually, to a point because everything works in gradients in this universe until you get to OT7, ot8, ot9 and you go okay, and that's why I do what I do is I'm taking responsibility on the third, seventh and eighth dynamics, all of the dynamics. You know I've got eight cats, seven birds, two dogs Take care of my furniture and home. My second dynamic and my wife and you know plants. I water my plants, I'm always buying plants. This gives you an example, and that's just. That's just the physical universe stuff. Then there's the beings themselves and pointing people in the right direction, doing this podcast. So you widen your scope to the degree that you're doing that. Well, now you can widen your scope more and you have more ability. That's the idea behind it. So you can't force somebody. They have to do it self-determinatedly and self-determinism is important. Per Hubbard Hand, determinism is more important. That is where you get serenity of beingness on the tone scale and you can look at something and go okay, that person, you know they're not ready for it. They did a couple of steps on their check sheet and they left. I'm not going to go chase after them because I made them aware of that information need to look up their words. They got something going on. Okay, this guy, he's sending me emails every day. He's letting me know what wins he had, disagreements he had with the materials. If any questions that guy, I'm going to help.
Speaker 2:That is the definition of responsibility per Hubbard is it's not only just doing something, sometimes it's doing nothing. So it's everybody's personal. I mean, you know, to not sound airy-fairy, but it's everybody's personal journey. And if I do my job, we do our jobs and we give them this information and they have these realizations about it by using it and going, hey, this is valid, I'm seeing improvements in my life consistently, moment by moment, day by day. That's what we're shooting for. If I do enough of that with enough people, then it expands and you know it's that pay-it-forward sort of thing. So that's what any being should be doing. I'm not saying that this is the most noble of all noble causes, but it's a pretty damn good one.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, yeah. Okay, I had one question here. It kind of veers off, but it's kind of on topic too. All of the elements of the engram and I think you kind of went over this, but I've read things on something called the circuitry and the circuits and of course we have locks and secondaries and engrams the basics, I guess. I'm trying to just wrap my head around what these things are and how they are and like, okay, interpolated theta, right, and I get a visualization of okay, you have a spirit, it's like an aura or something. There's some kind of energy and while the energy is focused in your body and you have a moment of pain, you're contracting energy. It's mangling in something with physical reality and then, after it comes out of your awareness and you switch to a different mood or something, it still is in this contracted state and then things just keep piling on top of it or something with secondaries and then locks and just try to understand what it is.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll give you a super simple example of what a circuit is. You know what an earworm is. You can't get a song out of your head. That's an example of a circuit. You put your pants on your right leg or your left leg before you do the other. That's a circuit Like a habit. It's like a habit. Now here's where it gets interesting.
Speaker 2:Another circuit, and the primary circuit, is that you've decided that you have to record and act off of things in the physical universe when you are not of the physical universe. You're constantly recording 54 perceptions at any given time, and some of those things you don't have control of, which is what makes up the reactive mind, and the other part is the analytical mind, or you, the faten, have control of, and you get into situations where you habitually do things a certain way. Now, maybe they're unabridive, maybe they're abridive. They're both circuits. It doesn't mean that a circuit is bad. You can set up a positive circuit to sit down and do your to-do list, like I have here every day with all of my things that I need to do, and I have a circuit set up that I go to this and I do my study, my chats, that I need to answer my personality tests, emails, morning sessions, podcasts, afternoon sessions, the AI platform and my evening sessions, and I got this circuit that I take it off as I do it, and that way there's some sort of physical validation and the reason why I'm bringing this up. There's some sort of physical validation that it has been done because you're convinced you are in a body and that you have to work through the physical universe, symbolizing this of the physical universe, whereas as you go up the grade chart and you get significant auditing, you start to be aware of knowing which is the top of the scale. You just know what's going on, what's going to happen. You can predict it. I'll know on any given day two people are going to contact me about services. I'll know on any given day, sometimes three days in advance, there's some interesting, possibly cataclysmic, thing that's going to happen in advance, because I'm out in front of the physical universe and it always feels like it's a lot worse than it really is. But there's this little something, something going on there and I don't know what it is, but I know it's coming and that's a circuit that I have set up as a Thayton on the upper end of the bridge that tells me okay, be careful, something's coming, and I hope at some point in time to have complete clarity on that.
Speaker 2:But a Thayton can set up a circuit for anything. If you look at me being a drummer, you set up circuits to where you can keep the beat with your right foot and your left foot different. You can syncopate them, you can have limb independency where you're playing different rhythms on all four limbs. Those are circuits for the body, but the being sets the body up to do that. You train the body and if you don't use it as you know as a musician yourself, you lose it. The body forgets and you have to retrain it again. If it's 10 years or 20 years or 30 years, you might lose it all, but you've got to stay on top of that. In the physical universe, as a Thayton, you don't really need circuits that much. So it's something that the Thayton is in charge of and creates either unwittingly or wittingly, preferably wittingly. You know I need to let the dogs out first thing.
Speaker 2:You know otherwise you might have something to clean up. I have to open the door for the cats so the cats can get out and everything, because I might have something to clean up, because they go outside to go to the bathroom and there's no key, a litter box in the house. So you know, these are things that you create and you mock up in the physical universe and you can do this in the Thayton universe as well and without getting into really spectacular, you know, oh, come on, band, there's a lot more you can do on that, in a positive sense as well, but it's the Thayton that's creating that stuff.
Speaker 3:And so sometimes to get the clearings, you have to get rid of some of those circuitries, because they're counteractive to your survival. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's what it calls those. Now I'm supposed to. And though that yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know dad whenever, whenever something caught him off guard, would yell at me and my brothers and sisters. I'm just using this as an example. I don't have any brothers and sisters, but dad would whenever. Whenever there was something startling, he would yell at all of us and put the blame on us. That's a now I'm supposed to.
Speaker 2:Where did dad get that? Now, he probably got it from somebody else's valence that he found was successful in survival and that's a circuit. So you handle that valence, you handle those circuits. Now you're dealing with the being in a much pure, basic form, where they're not being somebody else, they're being themselves and they're not using other people's solutions to problems. They can formulate their own analytical solutions to problems. Valence is what engrams and valences consist of, but valences are different from engrams and they're just as insidious, if not more insidious than engrams. And he mentions he mentions them in in Dianetics loosely, but he gets into that a lot more in the next five years after the publication of Dianetics. And it's still something we have to handle today if you want the person to get better, because you might be auditing mom or dad which is their solution to a problem, instead of getting gains for the being themselves. So that's the one of the first things that you have to handle is if they're out of valence, and we see that in the circuitry test.
Speaker 3:Okay, and the and with the circuitry is they're basically putting a block and stop on communication with the person, because they're those you're supposed to. You're not supposed to cry because you're a boy. Little little boys don't cry like that, those kind of things.
Speaker 2:That's a now I'm supposed to Right Something comes up. Now I'm supposed to not cry because that's what boys don't do, that's what, that's what daddy does and that's what I'm going to do. Or you know, auntie or uncle or whatever, whoever the dominant most attention getting personality valence is is typically what a person is going to pick up. The interesting thing is is that you have a commonality of all these valences throughout their history in the physical universe and you can peel those off with wait for it. You can peel those off with new era dynetics. We have a valence handling called the LXLists, which you handle that dynetically as a dynetic chain, and then you get the person back in valence. That's the best way to handle that.
Speaker 2:Lower on the bridge, Upper, on the upper end of the bridge, all new set of influences and a much larger number. And when you've eliminated both of those sets of influences, now you have an OT who is going to going to solve problems in the most analytical fashion that they can and they will create their own problems as games instead of creating their own negative problems as games. That doesn't happen until OT. That's after, after, clear. So it's a much bigger picture, a larger arc.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so after you clear these entities from the body, then are you clearing entities off the spirit to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it'd be like going through the house and hermetically cleaning the whole place and turning it into a hard drive factory. Basically, as a being, you're expelling all of these influences that are preventing you from perceiving, preventing you from knowing, preventing you from postulating, preventing you from having intention, and it isn't something that anybody would be aware of. I have an ongoing conversation on YouTube about this person that's never done anything in Scientology but yet thinks they know it all, and that Scientology is a complete bunch of bullshit. But the thing is is they're not aware of the gains that can be had, even in the beginning. So why? Why would you do that without at least finding out for yourself and just going oh well, it's all laughable, you know. I mean, it's no different than saying okay, and I'm not going to be apologetic about this, but it's just no different than saying there's a man in the sky with a white beard that knows all and sees all and works in mysterious ways and causes everything that happens to you. You just have to accept it and ask if he can help you out in situations where you need help because you made a bad decision. How is that any different to two people in a garden with a snake and the snake talks to them and they have an apple, and then shit gets weird. It's not any different than the OT three data. Are you kidding me? It's not.
Speaker 2:But see, that's the thing is. These are circuits that people have have developed because this is what mommy and daddy, grandma and grandpa, auntie and uncle told them, and they accepted it as truth. They didn't accept it as something that they looked into until they get older. Some people you know they're, they're born Catholics and turn into atheists or turn into Buddhists or turn into RLDS or whatever. But the thing is is that there's false data everywhere and you have to look for yourself.
Speaker 2:And that's what Scientology and Dianetics do, is they give you the ability to look into this stuff yourself and make your own conclusions, instead of just taking the gospel from somebody that fed you when you're in a high chair. Yeah, now look at that on a grander scale. And in the history of planet Earth, which is a lot longer than people think, in the history of this universe, this shit's been going on a long, long, long, long time and you've you've been fed a lot of stuff that isn't factual. That's made you make decisions you wouldn't have otherwise made because you took incorrect information as gospel, so to speak. This is why we end up here on this big, beautiful blue rock. How we got here.
Speaker 3:Wow, and so programs like that do. They play from past lives into this life as well. Sure Circuitry.
Speaker 2:Sure, sure, because what's happening is is to really dumb it down and simplify it is is that, like Hubbard says, life is everywhere and life is going to counter life. That's why you have a cheetah chasing a gazelle, the gazelle's trying to survive. So it's a cheetah, but the thing is is that what's happened is over the long arc of the physical universe. You have these societies that found that there were far more beings than than they had a control over that were preventing them from doing the things that they wanted to do. So the only thing that they could do would be to lie to them and convince them that they were something else to get them out of the way, so that they could continue conquering the known universe. And eventually, what happens is is they take themselves out, but they've lied to other beings and these things have gotten stuck and some, some civilizations, got got better at it than others and really figured out the mind and really figured out how to control people in a in a negative sense, and it's stuck with them. And these are these events, these implants that have happened. We're seeing it here on planet earth, right here, right now.
Speaker 2:A dramatization of these earlier situations Is there's always trying, you're always. They're always trying to control what people think and how they do, things to get them out of the way so that the powers that be that are sitting on the big pile of money can then do what they want to do. I mean, they're they're they're already looking at at putting vaccinations and tomatoes in the state of Tennessee and how many doses of tomatoes do I have to eat in order to get vaccinated? But nobody's asking the question. What if the person doesn't want this fucking vaccine?
Speaker 3:All right.
Speaker 2:It's happening here right now. It's the same thing in present time, where they're trying to control people to do things that they want them to do without asking their permission, because the only way you can control the being is to lie to them or omit the information, which is a form of a lie. This is what Scientology and Dianetics fix.
Speaker 3:And this is what you mean by behind every n gram there's a lie Cause.
Speaker 2:it's one of those examples yeah, because there's something there that the being isn't inspecting, because for anything to persist, there has to be an alteration or a lie behind it. Same thing.
Speaker 3:Either someone lying to them or they lied themselves.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, Ultimately they believe the lie, but they've got to believe the lie. Yeah, yeah. That's the way. That's where responsibility comes in. Who believed the lie? You were there, you were communicating, you over, underestimated the amount of effort, made a bad decision, boom, now you're resisting that counter force. It's the resisting of the counter force that holds you in space, that makes you mock up this n gram, because a thing persists beyond all else. That's what makes an n gram.
Speaker 2:So we were suggestible to some idea and just believed it, and we just got it hey right, hold it, hold it, hold it, mock it up, put it there, put it there, hold it, hold it, hold it, resist, resist, resist, resist. It's not the force of an implant or an incident that causes the aberration, it's the fact that the guy that's receiving it is like. I'm going to hold my position. This is one hand.
Speaker 2:And so now you have an n gram, Now you have a restimulator of the secondary and or a lock from a dynastic standpoint. But all of the stuff in the Scientology grades is much. It breaks it down into much finer granularity to where you can address these little things. And if somebody has a heavy duty hang up on a particular thing, there's a process for that and there's a process for that. I mean it's incredible the amount of processes that Hubbard and other auditors that suggested these gave to him because they were out there, you know, rolling their sleeves up in the field auditing people and they're like hey, I found this work. Grannie's like hey, that's great. Let's add that to the list. There's thousands of them for almost anything. I mean we even have an allergy rundown if somebody has an allergy, so you can pretty much handle everything.
Speaker 2:Now, is it a replacement for physical, for medical help? No, and there's reasons why we say that you should go see a doctor. If you know your leg has gangrene, we we're not going to tell you that we can fix that. Go get medical help first and once it's stabilized, we'll take you in session and we'll figure out what in the world caused you to have gangrene in the first place and it won't happen anymore and it'll heal. That's getting back in communication with that body part and at the bottom of that was some decision that you decided I got a game to play and it's called a leg that I'm going to have to have sought off because it gets me a lot of attention. At the end of the day, I've just given you all of the building blocks to this whole thing.
Speaker 2:It's not simple, but it's made complex with lies behind it, and that's why these things persist. That's why we keep worrying with one another. That's why we keep having this planet earth dramatization of who's going to take who out first. My God kicks your God's ass and religion is a straw. Man or not wanting to confront the real spiritual nature of a being is you're giving the responsibility to some other thing instead of looking at okay, it's all about what I decide and what I want to conceive it to be, and then you go downhill from there instead of for what it is, because it's a lot easier to blame God because you didn't get the job than it is to take responsibility for yourself. It depends on your tone level as to what you can accept, and that's what this is all about.
Speaker 3:It's almost as if the powers of being know a lot of or a good amount about this and they're using it all pretty much all against us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's black. You're not taking responsibility. Scientology yeah right, you're not taking responsibility for it because you're a lot easier to control. You know that's why. That's why TV programs are called TV programs. Get it. You know that's. That's what it is, is they're programming you. This is what you're supposed to do. Now I'm supposed to do this. Why do you think reality TV shows are so popular is because it's like, well, yeah, I would do the same thing. She should have left this fucking ass and all this stuff, and so now I'm supposed to use are put into place. It's like, yeah, this is just how it is. You have agreement, they can agree on it. The insanity continues and the circus goes on. That's what they're doing.
Speaker 2:Movies are the same way. I mean, you know you can, and there's tons of stuff, even on YouTube, and there's tons of stuff from some things that have been banned from YouTube, where people that make movies say, well, you know, some guy came into the office of Warner Brothers and said, no, I want you to add this, so we're not going to green light the project Because they're dropping these things to program people into these things. I mean, you just look at what movies used to be and what they are now, for example. I mean there aren't very rarely there are any good movies that come out because they've been so dumbed down to not educate people on things. I'm surprised the Matrix ever got greenlit, for example, the recent movie about the pedophilia and stuff in Ukraine going on with the war and everything like that, and what Mel Gibson and the stuff that he's done. I know he might be a bit of a loose cannon when it comes to Jews, but, man, that guy's got some confront and he's got a serious set of balls on it. He is not afraid of anybody and I really admire that. He's willing to do the things that he does and he makes movies on his terms. That's an OT. Whether you've done Scientology or not, that guy is OT to that degree because he's been wildly successful doing things on his terms with his money, taking those risks and they play out and he does fabulously well and he's not afraid to communicate what's really going on. We need more people like that. Hubbard was like that, martin Luther King was like that.
Speaker 2:All of these guys that ended up getting shot. Well, they got shot for a reason. It's pretty obvious. They got shot for a reason because they were pointing out the right things, john Lennon, they were deathly afraid of him. He, in saying that we're more popular than Jesus. Now, it wasn't an egotistical thing, it was just that more people knew about the Beatles than Jesus. People took it wrong and he recovered from that and started saying look, we need to stop fighting each other. All you need is love. All this stuff, these messages, are not what the powers that we want, because that goes in a direction of losing their seat of power. The 99% is the 99% and they're very afraid of us. This is something that Hubbard was working towards for over 50 years, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, we got to spread it and do it ourselves and go through this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're back in the 1950s all over again, quite literally, just with the specter of this 800-pound gorilla that says they know all and be all and that they have the correct technology, but the thing is they're not even following their own policies. They're not even following their own tech and they've made golden palaces for everybody to get sucked into and say, well, this is so beautiful, you know, I guess I'll do that. Even Hubbard said we don't need pretty orgs, we just need functional orgs. Really, we'll let them reach. Yeah, he said, that's not what you want to go for when you start seeing that you're dealing with an implant station.
Speaker 3:Wow, I was admired how well those organizations look and how they're all coming off.
Speaker 2:There's nobody in them. Because that's there's nobody in them. Yeah, but there's nobody in them. Because it's a pretty little carrot to suck people in but there's nothing behind it. Because it's physical universe matter, energy, space and time. That's all it is. They can't get the product, so there's no people in it. They're not delivering what's promised, what Hubbard said to do. They've changed it so many times due to copyrights, because the powers that be now control the corporate church of Scientology, which is an aether, dynamic engram of major proportion for tens of thousands of people that thought they had a way out to bring this full circle. Wow. So that's what we do these podcasts for is to let people know hey, there is a solution and it still exists. Walk away.
Speaker 3:Do you ever take people on who have just They've got one issue and say, hey, jonathan, help me, I got anxiety or I have this anger issue or I want to lose weight or something? Do you ever take someone on with a one-time issue?
Speaker 2:Very rarely does anybody ever approach us that way, because if they could get up to need of change on the chart of awareness behind us, they would, and typically they can't. They don't look at independent Scientology or Scientology as having a solution. Typically they want to make more money, which is reverse. The money follows the theta, the money follows taking responsibility for things and clearing out your own stuff and then money will follow. That's how it works. You don't do Scientology to make money, but very rarely do we have somebody come to us that wants to handle, I'd say, anxiety is probably for lack of a better term outside of Scientology. Ptsd would probably be.
Speaker 2:The top thing is they've got engrams that are really, really making them unhappy. We see that on the personality test and say, okay, let's get you a life repair, let's get this stuff straightened up. But even above that is being a potential trouble source and the amount of suppression that's going on. That, above all else, is what people approach us about. I'm sick, I'm unhappy, I can't do this anymore. That's the primary thing that people come to us about and they don't even know how to articulate it. They just know that they're miserable. We see that in the personality test and we say, okay, let's have you do an ups and downs course, it's free, it takes a couple hours. You get some of this data. You can apply it to your life. Who's suppressing you in present time? Who reminds you of a suppressor in the past time? Okay, you need to handle or disconnect. That's all there is to it. And so he says well, I thought disconnection was canceled. Well, if you've got a lion that's ripping chunks of flesh off of you every day, what you're going to do? You're going to handle it, you're going to disconnect. It's that simple. And if you can't do that, you're not going to make it. That's confronting the evil in the situation. If your wife is poisoning your food slowly over time and you're getting sicker and sicker, what are you going to do? You're going to handle or you're going to disconnect. I don't care what anybody says. You have to confront that and that is what people are running into. We used to have 60, 65% of the people weren't a potential trouble source. Both COVID. 90,. 98% of them are potential trouble sources. We're running out of time. So this goes back to the programming and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:And Hubbard was fully aware of this as early as 1952, late 51, and said look, we've only got a certain amount of time. We need to build a better bridge and make as many clears as possible before communication is shut down and things are controlled and you have stuff in your bloodstream. I mean, he saw it coming. He saw it coming, and it's not the first time. That's why he saw it coming. He knew earlier civilizations did the same thing, and not even on some other planet and some of their system. These same things happened here earlier. And those civilizations and I'm just I'm not saying that they were technologically advanced, but you know the Romans, carthaginians, chinese, japanese, they've all run into this stuff just within the last 100,000 years, so time to do something about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so if someone learns how to do auditing, could they market themselves to help individuals for specific ailments? Do you think?
Speaker 2:I wouldn't recommend it Because you're going to have the American Medical Association on you and you're going to get lawsuits and all that stuff. I mean you can't. I mean that's what the church faced back in the 60s. I mean they broke into the Washington DC organization and grabbed all the meters because they said that the Scientology was saying that meters could basically tell you what your illness was and everything like this. And they agreed eventually that they put on the back of the meter that this thing does not tell you what your health problem is and is not a medical device.
Speaker 2:So these guys have it very much under control to entrap you with here, take this drug and cover up whatever your symptoms are and take this drug and then not give you the cure answer, for example, because there's no money in the cure, there's mere money in the comeback, and they didn't want anybody. Even as early as 1950, hubbard gave the American Medical Association a copy of Dianetics and said look, we can handle this. And they were like we're not interested, there's no money in that, right, this is the planet we're on and this is the viewpoint of these individuals.
Speaker 3:So you kind of keep it as a spiritual advancement kind of thing, instead of making it kind of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what happens happens. You know things are going to get resolved, but I'm not going to make you any promises and no other auditor should make anybody any promises that they want to stay in business, because they will be sued into oblivion. Yeah, we live in a litigious society. Unfortunately, the church is a prime example of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, so, going through the bridge, it obviously has all the lists and the processes in order for you to find all of these elements we've been talking about and spot them all in a systematic way.
Speaker 2:Anything that's going on with the thing. Now I'm not going to say that again we don't cure anything, but right auditing can find an awful lot of solutions that you didn't know here to for exist, that were, that are going on in your life, that find you in the position that you're in physically or spiritually. I will say that I'm not saying it. I'm not saying it cures anything, but you might want to check it out. That's what I would tell you.
Speaker 3:Yep, I know some older individuals that have their OT8s and they just seem like they function better than anyone else at that age, like they're happier, they're walking around and I don't have some kind of crink in their neck or have a cane. They look young. Yeah, and yeah, their tone is very high and it's very surprising to be in that environment with individuals at that age and it's like obviously they did something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that others aren't doing Right and it adds up and at the end of the day it makes a tremendous difference in longevity of a meat body here on planet Earth. But, like Hubbard says, you know, we and I always get it confused because I've been able to find the reference yet, but it was a reference that I read. That he said is either a third rate star and a second rate planet or a second rate planet and a third rate star, because you have all this background radiation that's going on that ages bodies rapidly. These bodies are designed to in a perfect condition as far as radiation goes. These bodies should last somewhere between 350 and 500 years, earth years.
Speaker 2:But they don't because of all the radiation that that surround us, either on the planet inherently or from the sun. And there's a reason for that, why this planet was picked as a prison planet Because before you even get out of being a toddler by 75 years old Well, guess what Time to get a new body start over, and so the cycle repeats and repeats, and repeats, and repeats and you can't apply what you've learned because the body is aging at such an increased rate. The longevity is reduced by three quarters. So it's that's part of the system as well.
Speaker 3:Is that the basis of the book?
Speaker 2:It's all about radiation, yeah that's part of it, that's part of the church doesn't even publish that anymore. We have a copy on our website for people, but the church doesn't even publish it anymore. And that's a great question to ask yourself why don't they publish that anymore? Same as Mission into Time they don't publish that one anymore. They don't publish. Have you Live Before this Life? Another great question why don't they publish it? That's what Hubbard wanted.
Speaker 3:So I had a question about the past lives. Have you ever run into yourself or individuals going through situations where you've come across people you know in this life, in other lives, and does that matter?
Speaker 2:Yeah, consistently. I have a turn of phrase is that the tatens of a feather stick together inexplicably and you'll find that you run across certain beings every lifetime. You're like I know that gal, I know that guy type of a thing and there's no way to explain it. But the fact of the matter is is that we do find each other and we are playing games of a much larger arc with each other and Hubbard got into this in the Goals Problems, mass and Valences in the early 60s, 61 to 65. This is the fact is that you can find other people and you can play those games. Whether it's a second dynamic in a relationship, or third dynamic, or an enemy, an opposing terminal, yeah, you'll find each other, they're all around.
Speaker 2:I remember when I went into I was on staff at the Oregon, kansas City. Andy Bagley was the director of special affairs there. He was LRH's first communicator back in the early 50s and he would go down to the corner store and get LRH's camel cigarettes. He smoked camels, then he smoked cools later on and Andy was telling me stories that you know, all these things you know LRH spoke to him about should we have a money dynamic, when he was formulating the dynamics and everything. Great, great stories. Anyway, I walked in one day and I leaned over his desk and I looked at him and he smoked a pipe, like I do, and in his pipe the angle changed and he had to pull it out of his mouth. It was going to fall out and his jaw came open. He goes, I know you. And I looked at him and I said I know you do. And that's when we both realized we'd been working with each other Him and that current iteration of his life is Andy Bagley and me and my prior, and it was really, really cool because it was the.
Speaker 2:That was the first time. I was like 19, 20 years old 20, I think and you know it was just okay. That was one of the first instances where somebody else said it to me and I knew already I really liked the guy. You know that that happened and you know somebody said well, you know how can you prove that? Well, I can't. You know, that's my reality, though that was his reality and he's. He's since dropped the body and moved on, but he lived into his his late 80s, early 90s, and was in Scientology that whole time, and this was in 1989.
Speaker 3:So he's already gone through a lot of the bridge to get to that point of an awareness of seeing you and maybe making that connection that would normally people probably wouldn't yeah, probably wouldn't.
Speaker 2:They were just like you know. I really like this guy and that would be the extent of it, but somebody that's had auditing and he was a trained auditor and everything and he was a very, very savvy individual. He didn't miss a trick. And this he was in his 80s at the time. I'll give you a funny story. He was walking down the street this was on Broadway in Kansas City so, walking down the street and this black cat comes up and starts kind of you know a cat, sometimes talking it seems like they're trying to speak English yeah, the cat just walked up to him and he was. He recognized the being that was being the cat body and he said what are you doing in a cat's body? And the cat looked at him, turned his head slightly, ran out into traffic and got hit by a car. What, yeah? And his explanation for that is is he just indicated to the person that they'd wrongfully picked up a cat body instead of a human body? This is Andy.
Speaker 2:This is Andy Bagley. Yeah, I thought that that's a funny story, but this is how aware he was, as he could see the being controlling that unit, that cat, and said you know, and he, you know, he's really funny. He used to use expressions like that that person couldn't find their ass with both hands. I thought that was a great expression, but he was like what the? What the fuck are you doing in a cat body? You, you're supposed to be in a human body and the cat just goes, oh shit, and runs out in the street and gets hit. He was like I'm done, I'm going to go get a meat body. Anyway, you know, these are funny psychological stories about people and the, the, the funny situations we find ourselves in once we're aware of these realities that are true, for them at least. Wow.
Speaker 3:Fascinating. At what point do you think people become aware of that kind of thing?
Speaker 2:Well, I, I don't think that you necessarily, some people are in better, better shape than others and you don't even have to be in Scientology to be in good shape. But you know, those who do get processing will be in better shape and it can be very, very early on. It just depends on the individual and how well they understand it and how much charge is pulled off of the case to where they have these awarenesses. And that can happen slowly or it can happen in huge chunks for people. I mean Quentin is a prime example of that and in his view, points with 400 hours of dianetic auditing, is very savvy with these, these concepts and how to think with them and everything like that. So, and and you can be very aware, but you know it is relative and it expands and it gets to a point to where you're like I just come on, this can't be. And you're like well, it is because I'm perceiving it.
Speaker 2:I'll give you an example. I had an apartment where that was haunted in Kansas City and I got up from a nap after going to band rehearsal and I was just wiped because we played all three sets and I was really tired, took that nap, got up, went to the bathroom, did my ablutions and I got to the sink and I had this knowingness that said I'm not going to let this hurt me and I was like the heck is this? So I continued to wash my hands, wash my face, put the towel up, turned around, walked out the door and, right as my right foot, stepped out of the door into the bedroom. From the bathroom, this huge five by six plate glass mirror came crashing down. I got the footage on my phone and this big, huge tooth shaped piece of glass, which was not in front of the mirror, was on the toilet where I was just sitting moments earlier and would have gone through my back and out my front.
Speaker 3:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:There was glass everywhere. They heard it on the first floor. I was on the third floor and they heard it in the apartment and the opposite end of that apartment building on the first floor. It was so loud I couldn't find my cats for hours. They were so terrified and one of our old podcast guys, eddie Cairo, was there with me and he threw up. It was so loud, wow, it scared him to death.
Speaker 2:So why it happened I'm not going to get into. I suspect it had something to do with what was going on with the hauntings and their voices and all that stuff. But I was aware something was going to happen just before it did and it said I'm not going to let this hurt me and I walked out the door and it I mean it missed me by fractions of an inch as it came down, as I walked out the door. Wow, so that's an extreme example of awareness. Now, was I controlling that awareness, was I not? I can't really answer that question, but I can tell you that I was aware that something was going to happen before it happened. But you hear this stuff all the time. Whether you're an independent Scientologist or a Buddhist or you're an atheist, the people become aware of these things. These are OT phenomena that you can improve upon, for yourself and for others.
Speaker 2:So you don't necessarily have to be a Scientologist you talked about this last time.
Speaker 3:You mentioned this last time and how you mentioned that there's old OT levels and new OT levels, and so in your program, do you allow or do you show people? Both of them I highly recommend.
Speaker 2:I highly recommend to give people the option to do the original OT levels. One of the other independent organizations suggests that they do them after OT seven. I disagree. I think that it is an incredible validation to do original OT four, five, six. Original OT seven is a conditional thing, but four, five and six are fabulous. To give a person, after OT three, an example of what their abilities really are that you might not find out yourself. It's just tremendous the gains to be had on it and it's all positive gain. You're not pulling stuff out of the case, you're demonstrating to them what they can do and be a cause over things and I highly highly recommend it. It's incredibly fun and incredibly validating and that you can do all of these things and you don't consider yourself part of the physical universe but you can play in and amongst and with the physical universe as an operating or pre operating thing, because you're actually OT after OT, new OT seven per LRH and these, these abilities that you have, which are, I mean, just wow.
Speaker 2:I mean when I, when I did it, my girlfriend at the time was doing a process and I was walking back to the house where I was, the services were being delivered and she had her glasses on and as I was walking over the railroad tracks, she couldn't recognize who I was. As I was walking over the railroad tracks and this wasn't very far, this was maybe 30 yards she said I looked like somebody completely different while I was doing this process. It wasn't me, that's what she was seeing while I was on original OT five. And I'm just saying this is a phenomena, I'm not saying this is a goal, I'm just saying this is something that happened. And she said I didn't see you. You were somebody else. You you were. You look like somebody else completely.
Speaker 2:I couldn't recognize you at 30 yards away. So there's some stuff going on there and it's good stuff that you're. You're clearing a lot of things up and so I cannot impress upon anybody more that they should do those after OT three, because they're really something else and you're getting gains from it and it's putting you in a much better position than you would be otherwise. If you didn't do them, why LRH move them? If he moved them, I don't know, I'm stunned. And then they put the new OT level four, five and six and seven in place. But I think everybody should do both.
Speaker 3:To be perfectly honest, do both, so technically it could be OT. There could be more OT levels than.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are. Call them old and new. Yeah, that's, that's what we do. Is original OT four, new OT four. Original OT five, new OT five, and it gives you a lot more latitude when you get on the new OT levels. In my opinion, in my opinion, in estimation, Wow, super cool.
Speaker 3:Another question Does going through Scientology release DNA blocks and programs?
Speaker 2:Wouldn't surprise me. I can't say, I can't prove or disprove that it wouldn't surprise me because there's nothing that's focused on that.
Speaker 3:No, not, not, I would imagine just doing it in the first place would be shifting the DNA vibration, but but nothing is specifically focused on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of tremendous amount of physical influences that are handled on the on the upper OT levels. That would impinge upon not only the body as far as like a muscular, skeletal level, but I think would impinge upon something as flimsy if you'll excuse the expression DNA, because a thing can control electrons and you can literally have a ghost in the machine. As far as electronics go, it's easy for a disembodied being to control electronics and if you watch any of the ghost hunting shoes, they'll pull energy from the batteries in order to influence the physical universe with that energy. So, holy cow, yeah, so I. And then you can find that on on ghost hunters, on on cable TV. I mean, it's all over the place. The phenomena that they're running into that just go.
Speaker 2:Lrh said that. Lrh said that. Lrh said that 30 years prior to this, 40 years prior to this TV show, these phenomena are coming out and you can also find where theta, the being, has impinged upon a physical space, objects in that space, and they're finding that there are, because of this, data that is impinged upon this space, and this holds true for DNA as well, I would think, because it's it's a physical thing and holding these physical objects in these spaces are holding and grammyc incidences in their makeup and they are triggering.
Speaker 3:I didn't quite understand this.
Speaker 2:Well, let's, let's say there's a there's, let's say there's a murder in the space. Ok, ok.
Speaker 2:Some of the grammyc incident there, where there's a lot of force, a lot of intention, a lot of interrelated data. They're finding that these incidents are being recorded based off of what they're seeing, are being recorded by the desk, the floor, the timbers and the ceiling, all of this stuff and they can trigger it out of the physical universe. And Hubbard talks about this as well. So if you can do that, sure it's going to affect DNA and as, as we advance electronically, we're finding out a lot more things that validate a lot of things that Hubbard said 50 years ago, 60 years ago, that we just we didn't have the technology for back then. But yep, there it is and it's interesting to see that sort of a thing.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's one of the primary things about the upper OT levels is you're trying to get rid of all of these influences that are affecting the body and from a parasitical standpoint would be the easiest way to describe it and when you do that, ok, now you're OT, now you don't have all of this resistance going on from this stuff. It'd be like having 10,000 ticks on you, right, that's the best way I could describe it in a physical format. If you took off all those 10,000 ticks you might not be able to remedy the Lyme's disease. But in that, in that, in that instance, but you would get rid of all of the ticks, that would definitely make you feel at least that much better. But there's no Lyme disease for a fate. So you know. That's an example of how much it can affect a body and how much it can affect a person's surroundings. Getting rid of these influences, that's what the OT levels do.
Speaker 3:And just like they would suck energy off of a battery, they're obviously then doing that on our bodies.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, that's right. You're not able to translate it in there as well.
Speaker 3:So would you say that there? I mean, if you get these things off of you, I would imagine that there's a state of beingness that would then keep them away, so that you don't keep attracting?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's that's pretty much the case. Every now and then all you have to do is do a little tune up session as a solo auditor to handle, because it's like, like I mentioned before, I think, another podcast where it's like a shelf. Every now and then you have to dust off the shelf because there's things that have accumulated on there, whereas three weeks ago it was a clean show, same thing and that's it. But I mean they don't come back wholesale. You know, and there's this, not this never ending auditing thing, and anybody that's that says that and has experienced this listening, contact us and we'll help you with that, because it's not the case, it's not a never ending net for OT situation where you have to do it for 1415, 1617 years.
Speaker 2:I've heard that from other people that there's a reason for that and that's on the Excalibur course. That this, this sort of thing, happens, is because LRH is Scientology, as far as the net for OT is dealing with the precipitate or physical manifestations of the knots band. That a thing is dealing with, it's the symptomatic side, physically, and once you handle that symptomatic side, then you need to go handle the objective side, the stuff you can't see that's causing things to happen on the body. And if you don't handle the subjective side, the objective side will return, because the subjective side is what puts that phenomena there. It's sort of like well, you, you erased all of the influences that were causing your body harm, but yet there's still some guy in the head office that's saying OK, man, those posts back up. We need that shit going right away, get on it and they'll do it. You have to do Excalibur to expunge the subjective side that has to do with what you're seeing physically as well as other things subjectively that are holding you in place. And believe you me, it is an incredible level and all it is is just minor adjustments to LRH.
Speaker 2:Is Ned for OTS. It's not wacky, it's not crazy. The validity is real. It should be done by everybody and we give people the option to do new OTS, then Excalibur or Excalibur. We don't do it like Ron's or does, where you do Excalibur after OTS. It's too steep of a gradient in my opinion. You do that gradient, you get through new OTS, you know how to audit this stuff. Do the Excalibur course, learn how to audit Excalibur. Do a couple interviews. Get on Excalibur as soon as you can, because the gains are just absolutely phenomenal. That's where the fireworks really start to happen and your awareness very much increases beyond anything you ever thought it could Wow.
Speaker 3:When you say subjective, that's meaning like an internal type of work instead of focusing on clearing things outside of you.
Speaker 2:Well, objective would be in the physical universe, subjective would be in thought. Let's say you have attention on something that you want to have handled, and let's say it has something to do with people not treating you correctly and you've never been able to find out why it is that people always treat you this way and the same thing keeps happening over and over and over and over and over. You just can't get it solved. You've done all this auditing, still not solved. Well, guess what? Now you can handle it on Excalibur, and it's happening in the Theta Universe realm with these parasites, so to speak, that need to be expunged through Excalibur, slash Ned for OT's procedure. And when you do that, you're dealing with stuff from a very long time ago. Time doesn't really have any influence on it, but the stuff you've been dealing with for a very long time in the physical universe and subjectively in the Theta Universe as a spirit or a being, you handle that. It's a whole new ballgame.
Speaker 3:So is that kind of like you're dealing with an engram at some kind of different dimension.
Speaker 2:You're not dealing with your engrams, when we put it that way, but you're dealing with the influence of something else's. I can't say that All of this material. By the way, I'm not breaking any rules here confidentiality. You can go back to the Milestone One Lectures on our SoundCloud account and you can have LRA to tell you about this stuff. He was talking about entities as early as 1950 in Dianetics, literally Literally Okay, and Milestone One improves upon that because now they had the original emeter to verify this stuff, so that data from 1950, 1951, 1952 ended up culminating in the OT levels once he had a much better rear view mirror's perspective on the whole thing. And it is factual and it influences everything and everyone on this planet tremendously until handled and has been for trillinia, because the universe is full of life. Yeah, yeah, the universe is teeming with life.
Speaker 3:So I can imagine maybe someone listening, or even myself, you know like well, I want to be able to clear these entities now. But I would imagine that going through the proper procedure in the proper way of getting it clearing your reactive mind first and then going through the order probably is the most efficient where it actually lasts instead of I mean, if you were to try to clear entities now, they would probably come back to you because you still have the negative vibration and the way open to your body. Yeah, it's a gradient approach.
Speaker 2:You got to do it on a gradient approach. Everything operates off of a gradient approach, and because you're dealing with things that deem themselves to be a physical universe thing which they aren't, but they have themselves convinced it ain't going to. Last Hubbard was exteriorizing people, and then that was the goal up until mid-late 1954 was exteriorize people and that was the solution. But then he found they wouldn't stay exteriorized for a long period of time. They go back into the body, back into their head, and then they'd be crazy again, or at least aborated, if not crazy, and so that wasn't a long-term solution. He could do it. He could say be three feet back your head and if done with enough certainty with the person and the person was at least up to that, they could do that.
Speaker 2:But as time went on, civilization was starting to go downhill rapidly, because of education, because of drugs, because of street drugs, on and on and on. We found that well, okay, we got to undercut it, we got to undercut it, we got to undercut it, undercut it, and this just kept going on from the early 60s all the way until the early 80s. So that's why you have to do it on a gradient, because if you do it on a gradient. It's much more stable and lasts, and then you can do something with it. You can exteriorize anybody for the most part with a couple simple processes or a simple process, but they won't stay exteriorized for long as an example.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had someone who wanted to ask the question about what does marijuana do and how does it affect the auditing, because obviously there's the drug rundowns on multiple levels and ways. What have you seen?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a great question. It's not just marijuana, but it's what all drugs do is what happens is and why people do them. Is they cause a release, Like we talked about?
Speaker 3:They cause a release.
Speaker 2:They cause a release, they key the case out. The thing is is that when they key the case out and you come off of the high, it keys back in and now you need to do more in order to get that same release. This is how heroin works, especially.
Speaker 3:So this is probably why people get addicted to these because finally they have the release of the things they're dealing with. Right, they have the time to actually deal with it.
Speaker 2:You got it. And that's how alcohol works as well. That's how dopamine works as well. Okay, the body creates chemicals too, and this is how this whole thing gets into an addict stream is the body produces dopamine that produces a key out caused by the drug. The guy has a release. That release stays out for a while and then he needs to smoke another dube or he needs to take some more fentanyl and then that doesn't do it anymore to get that same dopamine release to cause that release and key out. And so what happens is it keys it out more mass keys, mental mass keys back in, because the drugs on this planet pale in comparison to the drugs that have been on the whole track. And these are re stimulated as earlier end grams, not just yours, but this other parasitical part of the case on the upper OT levels as well. Yeah, that is the real one.
Speaker 3:If you've taken a drug in this lifetime, it's then re stimulated it and now it's brought it into your field, right.
Speaker 2:And if you clear up on the new era dynamics for OT's drug rundown, you'll find that you don't get drunk very easy. You'll find if you relapsed and started doing that stuff again, they don't have near the effect on you that they used to have because there isn't this copying going on from these earlier drugs and their re stimulations. Same thing with pain when you handle that parasitical case on newer dynamics for OT's pain is your tolerance for pain is way, way, way higher than it would be otherwise and you don't get sick as much and everything because there isn't this keying in going on. So when you're doing drugs you're releasing the case and then it comes back in harder and then you need to do more in order to get it to get that same amount of dopamine that's causing the release, along with the whole track re stimulation of these drugs. That's why drugs are so bad for a case, because they tie up the case with more created metal mass and you can't get on with the show with the oddity Wow. So I mean I get it. I get why people would do these things because to them it's the only solution they've got. But let me tell you the releases that you can get from auditing and the releases that you can get from drugs and alcohol do not compare whatsoever and they are far, far more redeeming and far more permanent than anything you could get from drugs. But you got to get that mass out of the way from the drugs first in order to get the show on with the auditing. I mean, drugs are so prevalent today it's not even funny. Lrh would be shocked at how bad it's gotten since 1986. It's only gotten far, far, far worse.
Speaker 2:There are so many fentanyl addicts in the US, on and on and on man, it's really suppressive to a being and that's why we have to address them first. You can't do auditing in a smoke pot at the same time, just to add. You just can't Right. You can't do any drugs or any alcohol because you're not going to be able to get on with the show. It's just going to stay stagnant and you're going to be handling that mental mass that's going on with the person.
Speaker 2:So if somebody's doing drugs and they say I want to get life repair, okay, we got to get you off the drugs first. You have to dry out four to six weeks and a lot of people can't do that and we lose clients for that? Because they're not able to handle their addictions. The addiction and the dopamine gets in the way to where they can't improve, so they just stay stagnant and this is what's happened on the whole track for them for a very, very long time because they're so unhappy.
Speaker 2:But self-determinism plays a big role in that. Can you make it and get auditing and you know that's what the purification rundowns for, that's what Scientology drug rundowns for, that's what the New Era Dianetics drug rundown is for and that's what the NED for OTs drug rundowns for is to. You're just trying to with the Scientology and Dianetics one. You're just trying to keep this stuff at bay until you can get in there and get rid of the real source of it for the being to where it is permanently, permanently handled and they won't relapse. But you've got to do it in gradient steps, just like everything else.
Speaker 3:So if someone joins your system here, do you sometimes have them do the purification?
Speaker 2:More often than not.
Speaker 3:The sauna program More often than not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got to get that stuff out of the body because if it's in the body it's going to be restimulating the being and that's why he has it at the bottom of the bridge. It is a case by case basis. Not everybody needs a purifier. Your personality test will tell that tale and your drug history will tell that tale on a meter. If you've got reading drugs, even though your personality test says, hey, it doesn't need a purifier, we see reading drugs. Okay, we're going to have to do objectives to get you in present time so you're not stuck in that mental mass. Then we're going to do a Scientology drug run down to at least release those effects of those drugs on you long enough so that we can get the job done until we can get you to the neurodianetics drug run down and erase those engrams with those drugs on four flows to where the guy it doesn't have any more influence with him at that reality level. Until we can get him on new OT4s where we dispatch it permanently and forever. Wow.
Speaker 3:And so if someone was going to do the purification program, would you send them to a Scientology center or tell the new to buy a psalm themselves, or would you?
Speaker 2:send. We do it remotely. You can do a purif. You don't have to have a twin. It's great if you do have a twin so that you've got somebody there to keep an eye on you but it can be done remotely where you can buy an infrared sauna on Facebook marketplace for next to nothing. They're everywhere in the States. Here it's a little bit different. Or you go to a gym that has a sauna and you go in there three to four hours a day. We give you your quote unquote, the vitamins that you need to take and your niacin and everything every day. You write up your report at the end of the day what happened? And we know how to proceed. With the next day. Keep doing the same thing or increase the dosages of the niacin and the vitamins up until the point that you have the release of the purification rundown and it's all done remotely from here in South Africa to wherever you are doing it in your sauna. Wow.
Speaker 3:So you're actually tracking with them on a daily basis and everything too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, every day they have to send in their report, just like you would on a purif if we were in the same room with you. We want to see what turned on, what turned off. Did anything turn on? If it did turn on, okay, we're going to keep the same doses of niacin and vitamins until it doesn't. Then we'll raise that amount of niacin and vitamins until we get another result, until we keep pushing every little bit out of the body and sweat it out and put the new vitamins in place.
Speaker 2:Okay, now you've got the body not restimulating the fatin and now we can get on with doing objectives processing to get them in present time, get flat on control and they can control their environment and be controlled by somebody else, because they have to be able to accept control from the auditor, at least in the beginning, until they're self-determined. They're like, yeah, I do want to go into auditing. And then we start approaching the reactive mind on a gradient set of releases, like we talked about earlier in the podcast. Then get them on newer dynamics, boom, make them clear, up onto the OT levels they go.
Speaker 3:Wow. So does it matter if a person does a acid or mushrooms or whatever and they only do it once or they've done it 50, 100 times? Does that matter, since it's in their body? It's in their body or the amount matters, if they have to do it or not?
Speaker 2:Well, it's not necessarily whether it's in their body, it's whether they've got some engrams associated with that particular thing which could be once, could be 50 times, could be I wouldn't say that after a couple of times. Yeah, we're going to probably have to address that and in some cases you can address a person's drug case not with a Scientology drug rundown. If they're up for it and they're at a level that they can do it and run it properly, you can do the newer dynamics drug rundown at the bottom of the bridge. It used to be done that way, but a lot of people can't confront that particular area very well. So that's why the Scientology drug rundown was developed, because it's a shallower gradient to handling drugs in a good solution until you can get to the newer dynamics drug rundown. But somebody's done mushrooms five times, I'm going to have to say they probably need a drug rundown and appear more often than not because it's going to prevent their progress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's my take on it. But it's, like I said, case by case scenario. I'd have to have all the information personality test, the white form, original assessment sheet, interview, looking to see what drugs are reading. And if drugs are reading, all right, there's charge there. We need to handle it first.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, good to know, and I'm sure anyone who does it is going to feel amazing afterwards.
Speaker 2:Anyways, yeah, I mean you'll be released from that and you're going to see tremendous amount of differences in the case, both perceptively with the body and perceptively without the body.
Speaker 3:I've seen testimonial videos of people on YouTube. They just share how they feel after going through it and they're just like I can see clearer and I can smell clearer and they can think better and everything. Yeah, I haven't done it yet, but I definitely want to go through that and experience that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's different for everybody. On the, on the purif I mean, the experience is very, quite widely too. They have sunburns, turn on or you'll see the grid of an X-ray machine on their chest if they got X-rays and that'll come out. I've had people who were shot by buckshot from a shotgun and they didn't even know that. They had it under their skin still and the buckshot would be pressed out by the nice sweating and fall on the floor. I was in the room when it happened.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I was in the sauna and I heard this. It was like what's that? And there's buckshot on the floor of the sauna, the sweaty floor, sauna, yeah yeah, fishing hooks, parts of fishing hooks, I mean it literally pushed. The body pushes this stuff out because it doesn't want it there anymore and it has something to replace it and has the energy to do so. That's the power of the purification rundown. It's a very simple technique, yeah.
Speaker 3:And whatever else is coming out of it. You have no idea that you could probably analyze in a microscope or something with bacteria and plastics and whatever else.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. Now more than ever, there's more pollutants in the environment your dyes, your FDNC, red number seven and all this stuff. We've had people who you know we thought they were bleeding, got it tested and they said no, it's a food colorant. Oh my God, yeah, that was pushed out of the system and placed into the bladder to be excreted.
Speaker 3:So that's like the story of people having like blue stuff come out of them or green stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had people that have gone to the bathroom and it smelled like pot, yeah, and it was being dumped into the colon to be pushed out because it came internally and went through the body's normal channels and it smelled like they were smoking a dube in the bathroom. Oh my God, wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I've heard the stories of people having their brass straps, or there you could see where they had a watch and they haven't worn a watch in 20 years. That's right.
Speaker 2:They've been wearing a watch all the time, all the time, from sunburns and everything. So it definitely. You know, the tech definitely works on the purification rundown and the objectives should not be skipped because they really get the case in a much better place, as with a crunch, as to being in present time, being able to control their universe. It's just, you know, and this stuff came out in 53-54. I do not recommend the survival rundown that the church delivers. It's squirrely as all get out. You can do objectives, just do your objectives. Do what LRA says. Do a communications course before that get on the PROTR course. Same result. You don't have to do the squirrely stuff that they're using to try and roll everybody through everything and make a ton of money off of them. It's pointless and it overruns people. Do not do the survival rundown in the corporate church of Scientology at all costs. It kills people. We've said this before and it bears repeating Overruns people.
Speaker 3:Okay. So overrunning? I had a question about overrunning. So say someone's going through a situation, an engram, it has a release and then, for whatever reason, it's being overran. Is there more energy and blocks now being put on a different engram chain? Or is it postulate created where there's just more negative energy there? What happens in that circumstance?
Speaker 2:Well, what happens with overrun is you're doing an auditing process and the mass, the mental mass that the Satan is creating is keyed out. It's gone out away from the being. But when you overrun it you keep doing a process more and more. You've bypassed the point of release. That mass keys back in, generally harder, because it was keyed out. Now it's keyed back in and the person is mocking it up harder because it's making them wrong. They felt good, now they feel crappy again. The masses come back in and this is what you see on the survival rundown is people get keyed out, keyed in, keyed out, keyed in, keyed out, keyed in. And it keys in so much with the objectives because the gains from the objectives are so strong that it pulls in so much mass on the person that they drop dead. I'm not joking. You can overrun a person that much by turning the Satan inside out on itself. That's what's happening with that.
Speaker 2:It can be deadly. You do not want to overrun a process. Light touch person feels good. They're very good indicators. Floating needle cognition we're done. It's a Scientology process. Leave it alone. It's going to go beyond that point. It's going to come back in. The tone arm on the meter is going to go up, which means the mental mass has increased exponentially. Now you need to rehabilitate that. Church doesn't do that. They overrun, overrun, overrun, overrun, overrun, hundreds of hours on the objectives, on the survival rundown. It's deadly. Any process can be deadly if run long enough to overrun a Satan to the point to where they just go. I'm out of here. That's why you don't want to overrun Scientology processes. You don't want to overrun a Dianetics process.
Speaker 2:Strangely enough, dianetics when it's overrun causes the OT case to create something to run. This is how LRH and David Mayo found out that Ned for OTs does what it does. They found out that that phenomena was there. What was causing a person to create pictures in case in order to have something to run. That's how we got the upper OT levels modern day. That's why you do not run Dianetics beyond clear ever, because if you do, satan starts mocking up a case along with all of the parasitical case. That is going to really cause them a lot of trouble, like it caused LRH, because he didn't know it existed. With his help, with David Mayo, they sorted this out, made a rundown for it and then said you know what? This is OT level grade stuff. You need to do this, this and this. That's when they introduced the 1977 and 78 Ned for OTs and New Era Dianetics, because these things had to be taken into consideration. Do not run Dianetics past the point of clear where you're going to have trouble.
Speaker 3:This is probably one of those circumstances where, if you're going to try to do this whole stuff on your own, and not have someone like yourself supervise it all? This is where you could really start to screw things up.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's the thing is you don't know when to quit in a lot of cases. You need to have somebody that has that experience there to say, yeah, looks like you overran the process. What did the tone arm do? Well, it was up at five and a half Yep, you overran the process.
Speaker 2:We need to rehabilitate that particular process. It's a simple procedure, but experience is incredibly helpful on this sort of a thing, because you're not going to know what these points are. It's something you have to experience with somebody. That's why it's important to keep auditors being made into the future, so that there is some line of experience at least somewhere on the planet, if we still have internet in 20 years. Sorry, I'm not trying to be doom and gloom, but I mean, as long as you can get in touch with them, you can get that help if they know what they're doing. The biggest problem we have right now is we have a lot of for lack of a better expression half-ass auditors that didn't get very good training in the independent field. Not all of them, some of them. We need a lot of very well-armed to the teeth auditors who can keep this going for another 50 or 100 years and making more auditors. There's somebody here to help people become auditors, get auditing and keep it moving on and not see the disappearance of Scientology and Dianetics the subject itself.
Speaker 3:Wow, how many do you have in your ranks that you're already ready to audit other people, or do you have your training right now?
Speaker 2:We have two in training right now besides myself. That's all we've got. That takes a tremendous amount to do. The only reason that we're training others is because we've got more work than we know what to do with. We can see that it's going in that direction. The more auditing we do, the more people we get. The more auditing we do, the more people we get that want services. It's that build it and they will come. As soon as those auditors are ready, I'm absolutely positive we'll have people for them. But we have to have that beingness there first. We have to create that beingness through proper training, through proper internships and everything so that they can pass this on. I'm training them to Class 6 and then Class 8.
Speaker 3:Right, Basically a Class 8 auditor can get someone to clear.
Speaker 2:Well, a Class 5 auditor can get somebody to clear, but a Class 8 auditor can get somebody through their OT levels. That's all there is to it. That's what it's for.
Speaker 3:Oh okay.
Speaker 2:Class 5 can make it clear, class 6 is learning all about the St Ailes special briefing course and the Class 8 is the dean of the tech standard tech. And so that they do things standardly, we've got to have standard tech. We've got to knock off the stuff of everybody getting into. Well, what if we did this? And why don't we try this? And let's add numerology to it. I know Scientologists who were trained by LRH that have added such things as numerology to the things that they're delivering in Idaho. I've had enough of it. Knock that shit off. It works the way that it works. It doesn't need to be fixed. Anything else is an aberration. Come see us. We'll get you cleaned up, and I mean it. I don't mean that in a mean way. I mean that in a positive way, because we've got to keep this thing moving, because it isn't happening in the church the way LRH intended. If we don't do something about it, it isn't going to be around 50 years from now.
Speaker 3:All right. Yeah, I've already seen a lot of the ledges in the field that drop their bodies and not money. It doesn't seem like there's that many auditors compared to what there really should be or what Aaron intended.
Speaker 2:Yep, I mean in the independent field. We've lost seven people in the last two years, some of them due to co-morbidities and COVID even and yeah, I mean a lot of them were class A to above, and there's several others that are really getting up there in years and still plugging away at it. But it's very clear to me that if we don't do something about it now, there aren't going to be very many independent Scientology auditors left within the next two, three years at most. So we're doing something about it.
Speaker 3:We're lucky to have a young guy like yourself continuing on with this here, trying.
Speaker 2:Trying.
Speaker 2:I wish some of my peers when I was in training at Flag would come join me, but that's just not the case. It's more of a Gen X and Gen Y and they have more interest in it and that's great. So we'll take what we can get and get people auditing and everything like that. But beyond that, people need to take an interest in auditing, even if they don't want to do something with us as a staff member. They need to learn how to audit, help their friends and family at a minimum, because half of the gains are training and half of the gains are processing.
Speaker 3:And so you were describing before to basically go from zero to OT. Eight is about a two year program Roughly, if you schedule it out, yeah, it could be a little quicker, could be a little shorter.
Speaker 2:The thing that it depends on most is time. How much time do you have to put in it? You can go from the bottom of the bridge to clear in two months if you have the time. And that means you're going to be in session several hours a day, taking breaks when you have a win and you've got a release going on, and stuff like that, and you can't audit the person. There are going to be times where it's like you know, just go do something else for the rest of the day because there's nothing there to audit. That might happen two or three days in a row or it might be a couple hours and you can take the person in session again.
Speaker 2:You know, so it's it's that does get in the way, but that's a good thing. But you can make it clear in two months if the person has the time and the auditor has has the time to do it and it doesn't have too many pre clears that they have to also otherwise audit. But necessity level is the key. How bad do you want it? And so the co-audit would be longer, Right right.
Speaker 3:So that's about a two-year program that doesn't include actually being trained as an auditor or does it.
Speaker 2:Well, it does as a solo auditor. You're not being trained as an auditor or other people in that two-year window, but solo one and solo two, of course. After clear of the word, you learn how to be a solo auditor and then you take that data and you do OT one. Takes you a couple hours to do OT one at most, or a day, and then OT two is going to take you however long it takes Could be a month, could be three months.
Speaker 2:Ot three could be a month, could be three months solo auditing and you learn how to audit that. Then you audit it on yourself solo and then you've got the original OT two levels, which are done solo as well. That you do after that three, four, five and six. And then we have auditing which occurs on new OT four, which is the OT drug rundown. And then there's auditing that you receive from a class nine, like myself, which is going to take somewhere between five and seven intensives to get through. And then you learn how to solo audit new OT seven or Excalibur, and then you go from there or you do both, your choice, and then that's it. So all of the OT levels, with the exception of new OT four and new OT five are courses that you do and you learn how to audit those and then deliver them to yourself with the help of a case supervisor. So yeah, they are courses, but they also involve solo auditing.
Speaker 3:Yep, and so with then someone, after they do all that, then go back. If they wanted to become an auditor, then go back and start to learn that side of the bridge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it would be a lot easier. I was a good auditor and what I was trained at from Flag in 88, I was a good auditor. But when I finished my solo OT levels auditing I was and I'm not ashamed to say it I'm a great auditor and LRA says the best auditors in the world are solo auditors. Because now you know what's going on with yourself and now you can see with the guy on the other side or gal on the other side of the table. You have a much better understanding of what's going on in their universe that you wouldn't get otherwise without having done solo auditing. It makes all the difference in the world to be a solo auditor because you have a much deeper understanding of how the mind works, what to look for.
Speaker 2:You know I could tell you stories where we were date locating a particular thing with the PC after I had done my solo auditing. I knew the dates that the PC was going to give me that we were trying to find and I didn't evaluate for them, but I knew the dates down to the second the PC gave me just a couple of moments later, before they ever said them. I have no explanation for that. That's a side effect. It's not something we shoot for, but this is the awareness increase and the capability of it. I mean, it's just night and day, night and day to be a solo audit, so there's a lot to be had from that particular zone, amazing.
Speaker 3:Well, that gives a really clear picture of more of the route and what may happen when you go through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you just have a much deeper understanding of it and you have a lot more affinity for people after you've solo audited as well, because you're dealing with a component of the third and fourth dynamic in solo auditing that makes you realize, jesus, we need to be doing something about this. There's a lot of cases that need to be helped. It's just from a different angle, other than yourself.
Speaker 3:All right, amazing. I have a question from someone else as well. They asked is there any difference in auditing with men and women, or is it the same process?
Speaker 2:The same process. You don't treat a PC differently because they're a man or a woman. The only thing that shows up is that they read a bit differently on an emitter. That would be the only thing that would be different. 70% of all Scientologists are male, 30% are female and that's the way that it's been almost historically, the whole way. I don't have any explanation for that, except that's what it is. Now, if you want to get something done, give it to a woman and she'll get it done, especially a Scientologist woman that has any training I regret, to this day, training my wife on everything that she's learned, because she's a badass, wow Whereas men are a little bit more laid back and like well, you know, and the woman is like you know, okay, so you're not really taking a look at that there. Jonathan, you might want to handle that. You know you got some mis-withholds, you know that sort of thing. So they definitely, definitely women take the tech and as far as I'm concerned, they do a lot more with it because they are geared differently than men. But as far as auditing goes, there really isn't any way that you deal with it differently, because an n-gram is an n-gram, is an n-gram, release is a release, that's. That's pretty much it. The body doesn't have anything to do with it.
Speaker 2:Now I will say this, and I wanted to do a podcast on the sexism is alive and well with independent Scientologists and in the church of Scientology, and it is something that needs to stop, because if, if you're, you're part of a religious philosophy that says I am a spiritual being and I am not my body, why are you treating women differently? Why do you look at them as objects? And it's it's. It's tremendous, the the things that you see in the considerations that people have, that this comes back to circuits, this comes back to valences, and these are things that can get handled with auditing, but you can. You.
Speaker 2:I've seen them in OTs. I've seen OTs treat women differently, male OTs, I've seen female OTs treat male OTs differently, and it's so. It's something that's missed, that needs to be handled, because you're not your body and and I know a lot right there when I see that sort of thing going on. That shouldn't be happening. And if they were trained as an auditor, chances are they wouldn't do that. Most, if not all, auditors don't do that sort of a thing. Untrained people do. They just don't get those distinctions. That's the only thing I could think of.
Speaker 3:So someone may have some kind of sexual engram or sexual circuits going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they just have considerations that men are senior to women or women are senior to men, and so you have. You have sexism. Racism I have not seen very much of in independent or the church Scientology. It's a rare thing to see an African American Scientologist. It's more common to see a Latina or a Latina Scientologist than it is an African American or American Indian or Chinese. There are some, but I haven't seen anything, anything that was racist to that regard.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, there's some very well known African American Scientologists, especially back in the seventies, the guy that did chef on South Park. What's his name? He did the voice for that character. He was a Scientologist and he was a movie actor and very well known. Amanda Ambrose was another one. She was a jazz singer. I was on course with her. Super cool gal, super cool, very OT, you know. So I mean it's racism isn't alive and well, but sexism definitely is. So that's the only thing I could think of that one might have to deal with inauditing, receiving auditing or delivering auditing to somebody, but it's more so on a social level than it is from auditing An audit perspective that I've born witness to.
Speaker 3:So there's not a rundown you've created for that or that. Maybe there is.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, it isn't a rundown, but there are things you could do. Prep checking would be a good start and you could also handle it through over some withholds. You could also handle it on L11 with over some withholds. There's lots of ways, you know, over it's in withholds. On women, you can do dynamic assessments and handle it that way. There are ways to handle it, but it's to me it seems like as prevalent as it is. It's something that gets overlooked because of what LRH calls Hold on. Try to think of the term mutual out rudiments. Or you're in agreement that being sexist is okay because men are more capable and able than women. So you and the PC both think that. So you let the PC get away with these concepts and you don't handle them as an auditor. That's what is handling, that's the mishandling that's going on there. Is there not doing that because it's mutual out rudiments? Lrh has a reference on it.
Speaker 2:So it's that. Well, that's not an overt, I do that too. Okay next, and so it doesn't get handled Yep.
Speaker 3:And you see this all the time it's basically ideas that they have, that a person has that they didn't come to their own analytical thinking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's unexpected. That's the entirety of the case. Is stuff that's unexpected? And then you go oh well, I do that too. There's nothing wrong with that, I eat people, you eat people. That's why he says a cleared cannibal is a cleared cannibal. They're still going to eat people because by the mores society that they live in, it's okay to eat people. Therefore, it's not abraded. That's what happened with the corporate church of Scientology is, yeah, it's okay to be, to do this whole. He who has the most toys wins, and that's, that's mutual out rudiments. Miss cabbage sees it that way. Well, how much money do they have? How much money can they give us? What kind of car do they drive? Oh, let's get some more money out of them. They got up the Rolls Royce, they got three Rolls Royces. That's mutual out rudiments. Therefore, that is the rabbit hole that the corporate church of Scientology went down is mutual out rudiments. On the Mast universe.
Speaker 3:So this sounds like something that anybody could use all the time is just by inspecting our own beliefs and our thoughts and how we're thinking about things Is is. Did we come to that conclusion or is it just something I believed and just ran with, right, that's.
Speaker 2:That's what you're doing is you're getting the person to look at it and change their mind about these things, that they feel like they absolutely positively believe that all women are there to serve man? That would be an example. Yeah, yeah, and who's actually?
Speaker 3:going to face that if that's for their belief.
Speaker 2:Well, right, but see, that's where confront comes in. That's why they haven't handled it is because they can't confront it and it's a now I'm supposed to. This is what makes up the reactive mind. I'm supposed to do this. My dad did this, my mom agreed with it and let him do it, so therefore it must be true.
Speaker 3:And then that is valences as well, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's right, you get it Absolutely Valences. And so LRH spotted this stuff early on, as early as 1950, that this was going on. But you have to handle these valences in order to make any forward progress on a case, otherwise you're auditing the valence that they are being. You are not auditing the being that they should be.
Speaker 3:Is that beneficial? Does that help them get out of the valence by doing that?
Speaker 2:Not really. You really need to handle the valence issue as quickly as possible, if you can. I mean, that's why a personality test is so important. Low on the left, out of valence, low on the right Crazy. That's all you need to know as an audit. That's what LRH says. I in the middle. They're hard to train and they think they know it all and you're not going to get anywhere with them. So good luck with that, chuck. So that's why the personality tests are so important.
Speaker 3:What are the most common valences that people have their parents, and does it also include like people on TV or musicians and things?
Speaker 2:Right, it could literally be anybody, but probably the most common ones are family members or people that they found that were pro-survival to them, like, let's say, all of their family members were deceased, or their foster kid or something like that might be their foster parents or their foster brother. They're always going to lean into that valence that gets the most attention and is pro-survival. It's a solution to a problem. We did a podcast on valences, too, about that. So it's always a solution to a problem. How do I survive?
Speaker 2:The basic thrust of a fainting is to survive and create, in that order survive and create. So you're surviving, but you need to create in order to survive. You need to survive in order to create. Okay, you need to create this valence. Oh, they get the most attention. Well, they're sick all the time, but they get the most attention, which means that's the most survival route. Okay, I will act like Geraldine, my stepmother. So they do. Now, they're acting like Geraldine. They're not being themselves, because it's a. Now I'm supposed to do this in order to survive. Yeah, well, that has to be handled.
Speaker 2:And then you get into the potential trouble sourcing this is a press person type of a thing and the agreements on that. And then they start having body problems. And now they've got engrams because of the body problems and they're saying it's because of this, or it's because of that, or it's genetic or it's. And then, well, now you got a full reactive mind and full bloom. And that's what that's why auditing works is is if they get up to a need for change. They don't get up for it to a need for change. Well, live and die in LA. The phrase speaks for itself. Anybody that lives in LA knows what I'm talking about. So, yeah, that's that's how it works.
Speaker 2:Is you got to get the person to beat themselves in order to get any forward gain with them? Get the people out of the way. Valence is out of the way. Get them in present time. Handle their ability to communicate. Not think that help is betrayal. Handle their problems so their attention is not it. Get their over its own withholds. That's where the big changes come in, because they're now. They're not withholding. They can inspect properly, handle their changes and their upsets. Get them through service facsimiles and grams they're using to make themselves right and others wrong, among other things. Get them on newer dynetics. Pull those in grams and rip them out by the roots, erase them, get the postulates and then they go huh.
Speaker 2:Well, this is new. Now you can make them an OT. Yeah, so we're at it. Oh yeah, it's a tremendous amount, but it can be done in a very, very short time. It doesn't take Trelinia to handle it. Trelinia is worth of aberration. It takes a few months, thank God, and that's what. Lra says so yeah, so we're at two hours and nine minutes here. Do you have any last big questions or is there anything that we didn't cover?
Speaker 3:You know, I think that's a great place to end off. You just gave an amazing summary of the process just right there. Thank you, and this was an amazing conversation. Again, so much information. I feel very enlightened. I had so many cognitions. I hope everyone else that was listening feels the same way, if not more. Me too. I just want to say thank you for you to making this podcast and putting this information out there and putting this whole system together that anyone can join from anywhere in the world online, which is really amazing.
Speaker 2:While we're doing the best that we can do and I appreciate you being on here and putting these questions together and talking to other people and what questions they might have on it, and I'm more than happy to have you on other podcasts if you're willing anytime.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I'm sure I'll have way more questions as I obsess about studying all this information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's lots of things that have questions about. All right, so, michael Grady and for myself, we're going to put a close on this. Thanks for you all being here, and we'll have another podcast tomorrow, and it's going to be a doozy with Scientola Girl. We will see you then, namaste, and we love you. Bye, bye, bye, bye.