Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
Did you know Scientology the Subject and The Church of Scientology are two completely different things? Find out why and what the difference is and how it can help you. Topics range from Independent Scientology, solving life's problems, past lives, secret government, metaphysical, Para-Scientology, UFOS/UAPS, ghost hunting, spirituality, and a lot more! Come check us out!
Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE10EP10 - The Andy Nolch Interview Series - Part IV
An interview from 2017 - We'll unravel the mysteries of parallel universes, multiple identities, and the reality-bending concept of thetan duality. We'll challenge your understanding of existence by questioning the stability of our memories, examining phenomena like the Mandela Effect, and considering the profound implications of these ideas. Discover how personal experiences during auditing sessions can open doors to higher levels of awareness and understanding, all while reflecting on how the teachings of Scientology might illuminate the hidden layers of our universe.
Step into a realm where control and deception blur the boundaries between science fiction and reality. Inspired by Philip K. Dick's thought-provoking narratives, we discuss how complex systems can obscure truth, and how technology and media, particularly search engines, play a pivotal role in shaping our perception of the world. Uncover the intricacies of internet control and censorship, and learn why safeguarding information is crucial, especially when exploring controversial topics like Scientology. We'll also touch on the fascinating allure of extraterrestrial theories, while emphasizing the importance of inner spiritual progress over external distractions.
Gain insights into the inner workings of the Church of Scientology and the independent Scientology community, as we tackle themes of unity, accountability, and the struggle for truth. From the controversial Super Power program to the decline of independent Scientology movements, discover the challenges faced by individuals within these communities. Delve into the potential benefits of uniting independent groups and the need for standardized practices to ensure progress. This episode is not just a journey through Scientology's philosophical complexities, but an invitation to explore the broader implications on society, autonomy, and the quest for understanding our reality.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
I am. Thank you, andy, good to see you.
Speaker 2:All right, great. Yeah, it's good to speak with you. We had some problems with Skype last week, but anyway, I'm just going to dive into it because I've got a lot of questions to ask you. I want to ask you about this idea that one Satan can be operating two bodies at the same time. Like when I heard LA H mention something like this, to me it was too kooky land, it was too out there. I mean, it's just too what the hell, because it's like I'm here right now. You know I'm not anywhere else. I'm here, you know, maybe when I'm sleeping. Okay, I can understand the idea. Maybe I'm sleeping, I'm some other person in j or something, but at the moment I'm here, I don't know. This idea is pretty out there. Do you know anything about it?
Speaker 1:Well, I've had a week to think about this since we spoke about it when we tried to start the interview last week.
Speaker 1:So my answer is this A thetan, a spirit for those who aren't Scientologists can be anything and can be convinced that they can be anything.
Speaker 1:With that in mind, a thetan could be in two places at once, or three places at once, or four places at once, and the reason for that is because there is no time or distance in what we call the theta universe, with which a spirit or a thing resides. Many times in auditing sessions, you will handle individuals who are, for lack of a better expression, on the other side of the physical universe, maybe a couple of galaxies away or even further, it doesn't matter, because there's no distance and there is no time. Time is a lie and distance is part of that lie in the physical universe. So if you're viewing something from the viewpoint of a physical body viewpoint, then something like that would sound rather unreal for lack of a better expression. It sound rather unreal for lack of a better expression. So, yes, it is possible, just from the viewpoint that a Phaeton can be in more than one place at once, because more than one place does not necessarily mean that it is more than one place in the physical universe, because it isn't. That's just a consideration.
Speaker 2:Well, there's this idea of parallel universes and apparently, you know, there's a universe that's slightly different and there's another version of me in that slightly different universe. So that again is a trippy situation where it's like, well, I thought I was here and then apparently I'm in some other parallel universe that's slightly different, like what the hell, different, like what the hell. And then, and then there's the idea that, um, there's god, right, and then everyone apparently is like a piece of god, right. Well, if we, as satan's actually supposed to be god, like we originally were, and then we've become degraded over millions of years, um, that sort of makes sense that there could be multiple versions of you, john well, I've run into this in auditing a lot lately.
Speaker 1:Um, as far as the parallel universe thing, and that there might be other for lack of a better expression, uh pieces of the same individual in a different universe that are operating in tandem, I tend to think that at this point, from where I stand as a solo auditor, that that's the case to a greater degree rather than a less degree. I couldn't verify that, I couldn't give you a certificate or anything like that, but that's part of the OT. Levels is awareness and knowing, and I find that that's very likely what the case is. What effect that has on a person in this universe, I've yet to understand myself, but I do experience that frequently. It's sort of a just around the corner type of a thing, but that's probably the same thing you run into, but I think that that is the case.
Speaker 2:Are you talking now about predicting the future?
Speaker 1:No, I'm not talking about predicting the future. That's a different phenomenon. I'm talking about there being another portion of you that you aren't either accessing or maybe only have a slight realization of. I found that that was something that increased as I did the OT levels. It was something that I was ever so slightly aware of before, but I'm a past-life Scientologist so I might have had a little bit of an advantage, but that's just my awareness and my knowingness and perception. I can't speak for other people beyond that, so let me give that as an underscore to the whole thing.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is so deep an underscore to the whole thing. Oh, this is so deep. This is why it's really interesting with the mandela effect, because I think it it's exposing something really really big about the truth of life. I think, um, like, for example, with me. Well, sorry, I want, I want you to elaborate as well on the mandela effect, but I want to quickly say something with me, right, I had a situation where my mother told me that our neighbor was Japanese, right, and I was like, oh, I thought they were always Chinese, right, like, I never thought about them, I just assumed Chinese, because usually most people who look like that you assume are Chinese, really, anyway, so I was like, oh, and I was, oh, they're japanese.
Speaker 2:She's like, yeah, they've got a japanese restaurant. I was like, oh, yeah, and then I remembered seeing some stuff in their house and I was like, oh, yeah, maybe it seems a bit japanese. Then, a few years later and this is when the mandela effect kicked in, like when I noticed more changes, right, like the changes of sex in the city, tv show and stuff then I spoke to my mom about the neighbors and I mentioned how the japanese, japanese and she goes no, they're chinese and they've got a chinese restaurant and I was like what the hell? And there was another instance as well involving a street that's near where my mom lives, right, and how I said I remember how it used to be a pain in the ass because I had a bunch of speed bumps on it. Now it only has like two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you mentioned that, yeah, and she goes. They were never there, right. So this is what's so deep and so trippy about it. Okay, so I've got the same mum, yet my mum has different memories. So it's like, was I in another parallel universe, communicating to a different version of my mum, or have I changed universes or something? But I can understand this sort of idea of a Satan being in control of two bodies or something. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, I think more of it, I wouldn't know fragile things, and they can only tolerate a certain temperature band which is very narrow, a certain pressure band that's very narrow. They can only see a extremely small, uh, proportion of the the light spectrum. Yeah, they can only hear a small spectrum you know, the sonic spectrum yeah and so on.
Speaker 1:So I wouldn't view it from necessarily from a body viewpoint. That may not necessarily be the case also, uh, because a viewpoint you're you're looking at it from the viewpoint of a body, looking at another universe, which is a little you're kind of adding plus one to the equation when there may not, that may not be there. But, that being said, it's also possible that the things that you're running into might be a little bit of a feedback from one of your other viewpoints, whereas in that particular universe.
Speaker 1:Maybe they were Chinese and maybe they are Japanese in this universe, so to assign a significance to it beyond what it is in this universe, I think would be a little wrong-headed, but that's just my own opinion. If anything like Ellarate says, the best particle is admiration, and just admire it and look at it and laugh, because universes are fragile things and they're all a little wacky. They all have their own idiosyncrasies, the physical universe notwithstanding, of course.
Speaker 2:Wow, it is really interesting. There definitely is more to what's going on. It's not just bad memories, because, you know, I can't remember how to spell things. I don't really care about those sort of things, but there are other things that I can specifically go. Hmm, this is strange. I want you to. I mean, I listened to your explanation of the Mandela Effect and I don't know. I didn't quite make sense of it. So I wouldn't mind. Since we're on that topic, you really clearing up?
Speaker 1:what you think it is. Well, what I'm saying is that if, let's say, you have four universes and in one universe there's three speed bumps and in another universe there's no speed bumps, and in another universe it's a gravel road and in another universe there's something other than all of those things combined, because that universe is significantly different than any of the other three, um, you could get, you could get a little bit of a feedback from those other universes that it is adding something to your perception of it, and so you may be getting something from that universe where you might be more in arc that day quote unquote day with that one that is in the universe with a gravel road or something like that. So it may not be anything in this universe, it may be something that's kind of looping back from one of those other areas, or it could be something much like the pilot talks about in his materials and also CBR and the fact that this universe is a loop, because it failed its quote-unquote for lack of a better term ascension, so we had to repeat it again, which would explain a lot, and this is both mentioned by robertson and uh ken ogre, who was the pilot. Uh, and both of those things ring true to me.
Speaker 1:It isn't something that lrh mentioned. Um, I don't hold it against him that he did or did not mention it. It's just, if it's true for me, it's true for me. If it's not true for somebody else, I can have that completely. So that's another thing that has to be taken into consideration. It's the fact that maybe you've been in this whole loop before and that's where you get the….
Speaker 2:Deja vu, the whole deja vu. So you're saying… yeah, so you're saying a deja vu, the whole possible past life thing. Yeah, so you're saying a deja vu, the whole possible past life thing. Um or um, the idea that, um, auditing opened up my awareness and my ability to tap into other universes, or something other parallel or other experiences.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's more than. Maybe there's more than one loop, maybe it's an alternate universe that's running in tandem. Maybe it's an alternate universe that was 16 centillion years ago, I mean, you know, but dayton has an unlimited memory capacity. So I mean there's a lot of things that it could be. What's the significance of it? Not a whole lot. What's significant right now is the standpoint is that you are in present time, is that you're in this body on that and this is your main perceptive point. So you should do everything from that and just kind of admire these idiosyncrasies that come up, like the Mandela effect. It's not. It's not going to have any any effect on you, other than you're going to. Hey, well, sinbad played, uh, what was it? He played, I think, one of the mandela effect things oh, the shabam, shazam or shabam yeah right.
Speaker 1:I mean you know you have to look at it from the viewpoint of the butterfly effect. If you're already realizing it, the butterfly effect already happened, yeah okay, yeah, what about bodies in porn?
Speaker 2:I've heard this idea that they're on Mars. There's bodies literally like the Matrix that are sleeping in homeostasis or whatever, and when we die we wake up at those bodies and then we get programmed to send back, sent back here to earth again, and what it is is. I think it's kind of like a. It's a really good way to to run a prison, because then, um, I guess, when the person, if they didn't have these bodies in porn, then when the person on earth died, it's possible they could, as a spirit, become free again. But then, if they have to be commanded to come back to this other body, like you, give them two balls and chain instead of one. Do you know what I mean? Am I right about this or what's going on here?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, the whole thing about a body and pawn is it's an expression derived from the game of chess, where the pawn goes to the end of the competitor's board and can become anything, whether it's a queen, which is the most powerful piece, or one of the other pieces.
Speaker 1:So, in that mind, what is happening is that the Phaeton has been implanted prior to coming to the planet, taking up a body living that life, and then, when they drop the body that they're currently in, they get sent back to an implant station, be it on Mars or be it the Moon or Venus or wherever, it doesn't really matter, because for a thetan it doesn't have any, any distance.
Speaker 1:Uh, but the whole idea is is that the person is put into a body that's in a coma or stasis or whatever, and that's the way that you can implant them is through pain, drug, hypnosis, because they're connected to the body. If not connected to the body, they're much more difficult to implant because they have to agree to be in that body. So they basically throw them in body with force, keep them in the body with force, apply force to that body, that that is in on the therian, uh, whatever, whatever commands it is that they want to put in there, install a reactive mind or trigger the original installation of the reactive mind, throw some extra command phrases in there and say, okay, get out of here and shove them out of the body, which is true and the next person comes along, takes that body and that thing is set to wherever they want them to go. That's the whole idea behind it. That's how it works.
Speaker 2:So it cut out a little bit. When you mentioned how the bodies and porn definition evolved, my idea was it was kind of like when you pawn something in one of those shops, you put it in there and then you can come back and get it with money in the future, or something like that. So can you explain the whole chest thing again?
Speaker 1:well, the whole chest thing is is that when you reach the other end of the board with a pawn okay, p-a-w-n. The, the smallest and most prevalent piece in a game of chess that pawn can become anything. Okay, it can become a queen, a rook, a knight, any of those pieces. So what's happening is that pawn is becoming something else. So what you're taking at Dayton is you're saying he was Bill and he died on a Sunday from a heart attack, and the Satan that was known as Bill has a command where he is, which he got before he became Bill is impelled to return back to wherever this station is with these bodies in pawn in order to keep them playing the same game, so that you can keep control. And once you get them back in this body, that is not theirs, it is not them. You see how that works with with it's actually a, the guy is actually a pawn, but he might be a queen in that body. That's where the whole idea comes from. That's where a pawn shop comes from. That's where the term pawn comes from in the first place. Um, but that's the whole idea is from. That's where a pawn shop comes from. That's where the term pawn comes from in the first place.
Speaker 1:But that's the whole idea is that you're getting them to be something else other than they are. So you're trading one body in for another. So they're taking that body and they're being slammed into it. They've been given electronic stimulus, drugs, pain, whatever. They have all kinds of kinds of methods, anything with a lie behind it, because that's how you, you control. A thetan is with lies alone. Okay, so while you're, while you're doing that pain, drug, hypnosis type thing to to the body, anything that's unpleasant to the body, while they have the body has a mind. They have that reactive mind in the body. That reactive mind goes with the Thetan and then you get into the upper level stuff that goes on beyond that which we won't get into. But it can be a very complex thing. But the thing is, is that complexity is what they want. Simplicity, which is what Scientology gives, is what they don't want.
Speaker 1:Simplicity they don't want Simplicity.
Speaker 2:They don't want simplicity, right.
Speaker 1:Right. They don't want simplicity, they want complexity, because for anything to persist, there's a lie behind it. Complexity by its nature is a lie, because everything in the physical universe and the theta universe is actually quite simple.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, everything in the physical universe and the theory universe is actually quite simple. Yeah yeah, confusion keeps people trapped, because then they have to work out what the hell the confusion was and they just give up and they just continue being a slave. So this is an interesting idea. So it's like a whole control system. It's like you take a being that's maybe already in a body or not in a body, and you you take that being and let's say his name's, bill or whatever, and he's from somewhere totally else, and then you program him and you and you take in him and and his body's now in porn and you program it and you send him somewhere else and then when he dies he comes back and then.
Speaker 1:So it's like they put bill into porn, like in the chest thing, sort of that right yeah, yeah, so that that that makes it even more confusing, which is and strangely enough, there are a lot of parallels to that in your screenplay and philip k dick's book uh do android stream of electric sheep, and that's one of the key ideas, and why blade runner resonates with people as much as it does is because it allows this particular situation are you talking about the movie or the book?
Speaker 1:both, because the movie is based off of the book. The ideas are the same in the book. Both, both. The movie is based off of the book. The ideas are the same in the book.
Speaker 2:Because in the movie I don't really remember much talk about bodies in porn or anything.
Speaker 1:Well, the thing is that the concept is the same, because in the movie they're given memories that aren't theirs.
Speaker 2:Wow, man, when I watched it it must have totally gone over my head. I didn't follow along with that. Yeah, that would be why I didn't really like it, because I was always like why are people so into this movie? But like anyway. So what exactly happens?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean these androids. They're basically born as adults and they need to have stable data. So what they did is they had. Well, you find out in the second movie. I don't want to give any spoilers away for people that haven't seen it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't give it away because I want to see the second movie.
Speaker 1:yeah, which is excellent, by the way. These memories are installed into the replicants so that they have something to base their life off of that they think is theirs. But the thing is, is it's a lie, it's not. It's not their track, it's not their pictures, it's not them at all. It's something that was installed when they actually have nothing. Um, and and in the book and in the movie they go into that at length, but when they don't do that, they go crazy because they don't have anything to compare to. It's just boom, here they are, this Satan put into a body and they have no track, which really messes them up. So there are a lot of parallels there, along with bodies in pawn and things like that.
Speaker 1:This was done for a less nefarious reason in the movie, whereas what LRH talks about in the briefing course is a means of control and it isn't anything new.
Speaker 1:It's just the most recent iteration of technology that's been handed down or uncovered or re-uncovered and re-uncovered, and re-uncovered and altered a little bit.
Speaker 1:It's been going on for Trillinia in one form or another, at least in the physical universe. In the Theta universe there are things like that too, but the biggest problem is that the guys that do these sorts of things in planning in the physical universe, really have no idea what it is that they're dealing with, and the ones that did way back on the track caused the most trouble for the being that we are now having to handle further, I guess, with auditing presently, because people tend to look at time starting in their lifetime and going forward, when the fact of the matter is that we're in the end of the fourth act. Strangely enough, this has been going on for a very, very long time and it's nothing new. But people tend to look at the last 10,000 years and say, okay, well, this is when things started, but the actual fact of the matter is that is extremely not the case. You're looking at about 300 zeros worth of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've been born into like the most incredibly complex and long science fiction saga and we've just been popped into the middle of it and you can't remember anything and you're trying to work out what the hell has happened and it's like you don't know who that character is and what's going on in the storyline and you're just totally whoa.
Speaker 1:Um, so in that in that movie, blade runner, they they put spiritual beings into robot bodies. Well, they didn't necessarily put spiritual beings into robot bodies. They don't really cover that aspect of it in the book or in the movie. But the thing is is that if you were a parallel would be somebody who was in a coma and the person that's in that body got tired of it or just fed up, or maybe they got kicked out in an accident or something like that, and there's there's nobody home, there's just the genetic entities running the body, but there's no superior being running the whole thing the eye or the thetan and so somebody comes along and picks up that body that's in a coma. Well then, in this particular situation, in this story in blade runner, these thetans come along and pick up these adult bodies as soon as they're they've aged enough and been created, but yet they have no track and they don't know how to operate off of this. So they had to develop a storyline for them that was believable and give them something to have comparable magnitudes to. That's. That's the whole idea of the story. And when these replicants find this out, uh, they're upset and they feel betrayed and they're angry and want to come after their creators, which is understandable, because they've been lied to. It's a very similar situation to what we're dealing with in Scientology, because we're being told the situation is something that it isn't.
Speaker 1:If you wanted to just take it to the extreme, the reason why we're here is if you had a universe full of Gandalfs who could go around and do all kinds of interesting things and postulate things and put things there. It creates a big mess because the physical universe responds in kind, and so you've got people creating all kinds of things, and that's part of the reason why the debris is here. It isn't that it started with a big bang. It may have started with a big bang, but it wasn't the type of big bang. That's part of the reason why the debris is here. It isn't. It isn't that it started with a big bang. It may have started with a big bang, but it wasn't the type of big bang that they're saying. Well, once that happened, you've got all these beings that can create all kinds of things, and the fact of the matter is is what we're dealing with now in the fourth act is the physical universe, which is the, the debris from all the gandalfs, if you will. That's the way I can describe it.
Speaker 1:When you have people going around creating stuff all the time and others want to control them, well, you've got to get them to stop being the Gandalfs that they are, if you will. So that's how the whole thing got started, and that was a long, long, long, long, long time ago. But the abilities are still there. It's just that they've become degraded by the ones that wanted to control them, because they were making a mess of things, or at least in their mind they were making a mess. That's.
Speaker 1:That's how the whole thing got started in the physical universe, and what we have now in present time is the leftovers. That's that's what we're dealing with. So you've got to keep these guys from getting their abilities back, like ellery says, within a couple of lifetimes. If they don't go to an implant station, they start to get their abilities back fairly quickly, because you can't keep a good day down, and that's really the truth, and that's why this whole thing is occurring the way that it is, and you have to have them go back and tell them lies, pain, drug, hypnosis and a body and pawn and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's my reality yeah, well, I I feel it's like a uh a satan, is like a uh a tree. You know, you just leave it and it just grows. So in order to have this state and not become gandalf, not become fancy ot uh, you have to keep on doing the implants and twisting them and confusing them and I guess it's like a plant. It's like a plant, like tricking the plant with artificial light, like making it grow sideways and downwards and putting chemicals around the plant and all this sort of stuff, so it never grows into a proper tree. I think you read the Blade Runner book before you watched the movie, didn't you? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, yeah, I get it. Yeah, because you got a whole better understanding of it.
Speaker 1:I think maybe the movie cuts out a bit of this, this more of the art, background information and the understandings of the book, of the book yeah, the second movie gets into it a lot more to explain that the areas that they didn't cover in the first movie or maybe ended up on the editing room floor, which very well may be the case. But the second one really kind of circles the wagons and gets it into a perspective where you go ah okay, I get it now and it it really does it justice.
Speaker 2:So I highly recommend it yeah, and because because I always thought I never quite liked it but I loved Philip K Dick's stuff. I mean, his stuff is just incredible. There's a movie that was made called Radio Free, albumus or something Albumus, radio Free, albumus or whatever and that wasn't like a big Hollywood thing, it was more an independent film. But that was just like a big hollywood thing, it was more independent film, um, but that was just like whoa, you know, and total recall was really cool because I feel it was like philip k dick combined with the other people who wrote it, who were geniuses as well, and they really made something really really good.
Speaker 2:Anyway, getting off topic, but anyway, this, this sort of technology, stands out there and crazy and all this stuff. But if you know about pain drug hypnosis, if you know about you know how the government you know will inject someone, then hypnotize them, or secret parts of the government or cia or whatever, and then you can wipe their memories and you can program them to go and assassinate someone or whatever. This is all. Just you know, a million years advanced upon the pain drug hypnosis. It's like this is what it evolves into. They invent electronics and more years go past and more scientists work on it, they invent better drugs and then eventually ends up becoming this absolutely wild science fiction shit that we're talking about now yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, it all comes down to the fact that it's it's yeah, well, it all comes down to the fact that it's Scientology basics, at least from my viewpoint that low-toned beings do low-toned things and they despise people who are higher-toned and have more ability and want to keep them down. And that's pretty much been the game from day one. And the only way to get around that is to be able to choose your people or choose your beings and things like that, and try and get out of the trap as best you can and help as many as you can, because you won't get out of the trap alone. And that's what Scientology is all about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I believe the whole of our existence has become a trap, because I mean, think of something like with some internet dating sites. For example, there can be scammers on that right. So like some Nigerian scam or something that tries to milk money out of some guy who thinks he's going to be marrying a woman in Thailand, or something. But then there's also the actual internet dating site themselves who could be using fake people to try and get people to sign up for membership. So the guy signs onto the dating site and he thinks it's fantastic that these girls are talking to him, but they're just like some Indian guy that's been paid $2 an hour by the dating site to try and keep the guy, keep his membership going up. So see how that's a little trap in itself and it's a bit of shifty dodginess, right. Some people don't even know about that.
Speaker 2:But then what about in this industry? What about in that industry? What about when you want to go paint a wall? What about when you want to go learn OT abilities? When this shiftiness comes into the situation and when, I don't know, it must be just it. There must just be a lot of people in our population that are willing to do shifty stuff. I mean that's what it must be. But you get shiftiness just everywhere and you get lies that build upon lies and and then in the next minute you've got a huge trap where everything is a muddle and everything's a confusion, everything is a mess and you have to sit down, start clearing your words, start looking into things and work out. Pick one thing at a time, like out of problems, a workbook, one thing at a time, and just work out what the hell is going on, and then after 10 years you'll actually be able to sit back and go. Now I'm actually starting to understand what's going on right.
Speaker 1:Well, the. To me, the best thing that you, that a person, can do, the royal you, is to run up the bridge, not walk, and a lot of these things will. You'll just know what you're dealing with and that that these sorts of things exist. They're just rampant, especially in this day and age. Um, the degradation is wholesale for the almighty altruism of a fiat currency. Uh, that has no value, and all of that. And then this is all part of, uh, a particular society that is controlling this planet, for whatever reason. Um, so you know, money, money is a lie and you don't need it. There are lots of better ways to get along with each other, be able to survive, but the, the current money situation on this planet is put there in order to control people and prevent them from looking and prevent them from surviving. Well, because they always have to chase their tail in order to survive and delete profit where 99% of the population is suppressed. That's the deal. That's why it's so dodgy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so complex and like, for example, I don't want to talk much about this, right, but even world war ii, right, um, I'm not saying hitler was a good guy, but um, I mean england started it like hitler was taking back parts of poland that were had germans in there and england said in 1939, I said we declare war on germany. That you know what? Know what I mean? It takes two to tango. It takes two to start the fight. It's so ridiculous. But everyone has this idea that it was just totally. The Germans were just these monsters, just went around and started all these fights and stuff. You don't understand that Russia was doing this to fight, to antagonize people, and England and America were doing this to start a fight and it was a team effort. Like it's just so stupid, you know.
Speaker 1:Everything's just in a confusion and a lie sure, well, you know all of the, all of the wars on this planet are, are provided, and it's it's all operated through the overt motivator sequence. And you know the uh non-logical term for that would be problem reaction solution. Create the problem, get the reaction you want, pose the solution you want. And that's exactly what it is Gulf of Tonkin for Vietnam, for the United States. You know, every war, police action or conflict that we've been in, since we've been a country in the United States, that we've been in, since we've been a country in the United States, literally was started by a banker. And the product of the United States is war and death and carnage and profiteering by the industrial military complex.
Speaker 1:Eisenhower said it, jfk said it better. That's just what it is and that's all low-tonedness, it's all dramatization of things on the track, a lot of ot2 materials there and that sort of a thing. And the only way it's going to change and this has been the way it's been in many, many, many civilizations prior to this one is is for people to take responsibility for themselves and others and get up the bridge. And you know, scientology doesn't have all of the answers, but it's a really, really good start and it's one of the better starts on this planet, and if we don't do something about it, it will be snuffed out too before too long. And I'm not talking about the corporate church of Scientology, I'm talking about Scientology.
Speaker 2:The subject I heard something really interesting and haven't looked into it much more, but I heard about something in the 80s or something that was like one of these metaphysical or psychic bookstores that would have funky information in it and some people came in and took out the good information or deleted good information from the books or something, and people were like what the hell? Basically, and the same thing was happening in Scientology, in that information in Scientology was getting taken out and changed or whatever. I don't know man, I don't know much more about that. But what I'm saying is that's a common thing on the track.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it seems like we look at what happened with the Scientology and its tech, that some things, people came in and took out information secretly. Well, it seems like the same thing has happened with all these other practices.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, sure. The Catholic Church has sanitized the sanitized things. Uh, the roman empire sanitized things before the catholic church existed. It goes on and on, and on, and on, and on and on. History is written by the winner, not the loser of the war, and that's.
Speaker 2:That's just the way that it is yeah, and and and it seems like this happened in the 80s or something. I don't know if it was the 80s, early 90s or something, but it's interesting because he's still there, john.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm still there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that brings me on to the Markabian thing, in that it's like is this like the new order, like this new thing came in the 80s where suddenly it was a big like cleansing out and so like do you know much about the Markabians and did?
Speaker 1:they invade or something in the 80s. Well, I know that LRH mentioned that and I think Janet touched on that in her interview. Yeah, I had heard from other people at some point that LRH had said something on that. My knowingness is that that is what occurred and these guys are sort of like the galactic bankers similar to what you see in Game of Thrones or Star Wars. You know, there's always a banker behind the scene that's lending both sides money and that's how they're profiting.
Speaker 1:Well, that's basically what the Markabians are like. Unfortunately, they're very solid citizens. For the most part, they look just like me as far as a physical universe. I don't know how much of a role they played, uh, in that, but I do know that here in kansas city back when the whole mission holders conference thing went on and everything that there was a huge uh hullabaloo about, the markabians had taken over the church.
Speaker 1:I don't know where that came from, but I heard it an awful lot when I was on staff from people who had left the church mission at that time in Kansas city because things had changed so much. Now, whether they're you know they were really knew what they were talking about or not, I don't know, but you know they really knew what they were talking about or not, I don't know. But you know it's a prison planet and the inmates are running and if any inkling of anything comes back to the people that put it here or had something to do with it, they're not going to let the inmates leave the asylum and the Marquebians played a role in that at one point in time back on the track.
Speaker 2:They weren't the main player, but they were one of the players hey, so so at this time, the mission holders conference uh what, what post were you at?
Speaker 1:and so were you involved with the mission I was a kid at the time of the mission holders conference. Uh, I didn't become aware of that until I got out in 2004.
Speaker 2:I did see the results of it very clearly as to what happened here in Kansas City. Okay, hold on, I don't want to go into that Mission. Holder conference. That's the only thing I don't want to go into the Mission Holder conference. So even as a kid you were hearing stuff, I guess, from the adults about this Markabian thing.
Speaker 2:It's just so interesting because in the Mission Earth science fiction saga, hubbard talks about a race of aliens that look exactly like us and are corrupted exactly like us, like in the same sort of way, like you know, strippers and and steroids and sports and yeah, it's a very similar society yeah, and, and they planned to take over earth as part of the invasion schedule, right, but like it's a long-term thing and before you know you, before you land in the ships and say you know this is our planet or whatever, it's a long-term process, like you do surveys, and then you, I imagine you, you would send, you know secret agents in there and and establish it and all that sort of stuff, and and so I feel like it hasn't it hasn't become official yet, but we've been secretly infiltrated by this other race.
Speaker 2:That's setting things up. It's like planting the seeds, I guess, so that then when they announce it, everyone won't go. That's bullshit. I don't want to become part of the Markabians, you know what I mean. Like everything will already sort of be like them, and then it will get announced and then it will be like well, they're already sort of like us. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like well, they're already sort of like us. You know what I mean? Yeah, Well a parallel would be the John Carpenter film them they Live or them yeah they Live, I think is what it was. They Live where you know. They kind of look like skeletons and things like that. I'm sorry the movie name that I mentioned was actually about a race of incredibly large ants.
Speaker 2:Is that a John Carpenter movie?
Speaker 1:No, it's not. It came out in the 50s Completely different movie, completely different screenplay. But you know, a lot of the things that you see in movies here on planet Earth are used to instruct, are used to get you, uh, flattened out or pacified on something or to take on ideas. It doesn't really matter if they're coming, if they're here, whatever, it doesn't matter if there are 52 races of of uh or species of life forms that are coming here and different modes of transportation, it doesn't matter. It doesn't. It doesn't matter at all. And the reason for that is it isn't going to make any big change and they're not going to make any big changes here. It's all going to be really, really, really slow and you probably wouldn't notice it within 20 years. It doesn't matter, because if you go, the adverse effect of it you're finished and you're going to be that much more of a potential trouble source to the whole thing, which is exactly what you don't want to do. It doesn't matter, it's interesting. There's no doubt about that. It's really, really interesting. But the fact of the matter is you need to keep your eye on the ball and that is get up the bridge, all of this background noise about you know what's going on with the aliens and everything. That's all good and fine and it's really cool to see the technology that shows up on YouTube if in fact it really is real footage but it isn't going to change anything. Really is real footage, but it isn't going to change anything. And it took me a long, long time to realize that, because I used to be very electrified by the, the alien stuff myself. But it doesn't matter, a lick, just get up the bridge and the rest of it will all come clear, because these guys let me give you an example everything that's going on here on earth is the same thing that's going on galactically. It's a shit show.
Speaker 1:Okay, for the most part. There are some civilizations who are extremely advanced and are very ot, but those civilizations aren't going to come within many, many light years of this planet because this place is a dead zone and they don't want to have anything to do with it. It's a trash heap. They don't need to come here. There's nothing here for them because they're not part of the physical universe. Any of the guys that are coming here who are coming in advanced craft, that's part of the physical universe or they're manipulating a couple universes to get from one place to the other through wormholes or whatever technology that's far beyond anything that we could even describe in the english language. You probably don't want to have anything to do with anyway, because they're part of the universal shit show that is the physical universe. That that is what we are trying to handle in Scientology.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's what I would tell everyone. Yeah, it's great and it's fun to talk about and all of that stuff, but at the end of the day, how far have you progressed up the bridge? What have you gotten done? That's going to allow you to have more ability, more perception, more knowingness, more AR arc for all of the other beings that are in the same mess as you. It isn't talking about you folks, what they can do and what this alien race looks like, and blah, blah, blah, because there's tons of that data out there and it's on the internet, and I'm fully aware of you know the andromedans. I'm fully aware of the pleiadians, I'm fully aware of the guys that are not carbon-based. You know all this. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all because it doesn't change anything. It might as well be a science fiction novel. What matters is getting your ass off the bridge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's why I like Scientology the most, because I mean there's the Corey Goode who talks about Blue Avians and you might hear some interesting philosophical ideas being expressed, but it's kind of just like who cares about Blue Avians? You know what I mean. Like, regardless of whether or not it's true, it's just like. I mean, what's that going to do? It just goes over the average Joe's head. It's just like what the hell? But what doesn't, though, is someone saying you know, look up a word in a dictionary Like that is just so important and fundamental, you know, and powerful, yeah, but I know we shouldn't spend much time on it, but I do want to finish up, though. I was going to say, well, like, have you heard any stories about UFOs in LIH?
Speaker 1:I have not. I mean, I know that obviously he was aware of that sort of thing, but I've never heard anything myself directly. And if I did, I would tell you that I'm not aware of any.
Speaker 2:Well, what about and this might be a little bit what about something about like a night watch and Captain Bill and cross-dressing and Ashtar, do you know anything about this sort of stuff?
Speaker 1:I've seen certain. You know bits and pieces of things. I've seen certain. You know bits and pieces of things. You know. Whatever was going on with LRH and whatever his viewpoint on things, you know my stable datum is the technology that he created. Beyond that I really don't care. Captain Bill, same thing. I don't really subscribe to all of the space opera stuff that he talks about. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but I think that the important thing is the workable tech and the rest of it. You can make your mind up for yourself. It should be anybody else's word on it, and every being has their own track, and that doesn't necessarily mean that my track is the same as everybody else's track. I might have been in a different part of the physical universe, or I might have been in a different universe, who knows. So I don't necessarily subscribe to a lot of that stuff. You know, when I did Excalibur, reality wasn't necessarily my reality, but the tech worked, worked like gangbusters when you say worked, you mean you got wins from the tech.
Speaker 2:Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1:yeah, I got lots. I mean, you know I I got tons of wins from the attack on an excalibur, um. But I don't necessarily subscribe to all of the incidents that he mentions on the track that that were there. They just you know they weren't. They weren't real to me. Some of them were real to some of the parts of that case Not a lot, but some of them were, and that's all that matters is be aware of the fact that this might have been a principal incident on the track For some or part of your composite case. It doesn't necessarily mean that it holds true for you. If it reads on the meter, run it. That's all there is to it and that's my litmus test. If there's charge there and it's a reading item, it's a reading situation. Whatever you're dealing with, okay, it's real to somebody. It might not be real to me, but it's a composite case, so I just have to look at it and not evaluate it for anything other than what it is.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, yeah, it's kind of like that with all of Scientology. It's just like you just do whatever works and it doesn't necessarily matter if that memory was actually real or not. What about? I mean, you mentioned the pilot earlier, so does the pilot have this idea as well that, like we've played, we've experienced all this before and we're doing it all again for a second time?
Speaker 1:Well, in some of the materials that I saw I haven't gone in session on any of his materials. I've looked at a good chunk of them and you know it didn't re't restimulate me or anything like that. It was sort of like um reading history of man. Somebody says, well, you know, well, that would be squirrel to read the pilot stuff because he's not lrh. Well, okay, I have a disagreement with that because the fact of the matter is is that lrh pulled all of this stuff together from lots of different places and came up with new ideas. And if somebody else does that and it's workable and it rings true to you, well, there's nobody that can stop you on that.
Speaker 1:And I look at some of the people that do that with Scientology as gatekeepers. They don't look any further than what LRHH said. And that's what's happening here in the US with a lot of the CBR stuff is don't look, don't look, he was a squirrel. He wore a feather and a hat and a cape, you know all this stuff, but it doesn't mean anything. What matters is that it works, and so a lot of the CBR stuff works. The pilot stuff rings true to me. I haven't run it or anything like that, but it rang true. So you know there's a reason that he ended up at the bottom of the pool with a couple of concrete blocks tied to his feet. I don't believe that the guy killed himself at all.
Speaker 2:What age was he when this happened?
Speaker 1:I'd have to say he was probably in his 60s. He was in the mid-2000s that he died. He was living in the Clearwater area. He was a class.
Speaker 2:Oh, the pilot was in the Clearwater area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he lived in the Clearwater. You know vicinity of Clearwater or Clearwater itself.
Speaker 2:So didn't he used to sort of be in the Europe area?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't recall much about his past. I do know that he was respected by many in the field and he ran into a lot of the same things that CBR ran into, which is you get this, don't look, don't look at squirrel, uh sort of thing. And um, you know, when somebody's that sort of thing starts happening, that's when you have to go what? Because there's usually somebody decrying it for a reason and it isn't a good one, did he?
Speaker 2:that's my viewpoint on it did you leave a suicide note not?
Speaker 1:to my knowledge, uh, it was one a very curious situation where the local police department deemed it a suicide and they never did look into. That makes it even more fishy. Uh, and he was a very nice person from what I understand. I know people that that that knew. And he was a very nice person from what I understand, I know people that knew him. He was a very kind guy and he was looking into things that were revelatory to those who did not want them revealed. I believe that's my opinion and that's my knowingness, much like CPR.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I know I'm suspicious about cbr as well. Um, so, uh, what's the word? Um? What exactly was uh the pilot doing at the time? Because I'm trying to work out. Was it possibly osa, or was he exposing cia? Was he doing other stuff, or was he just purely scientology, that it was a whistleblower for?
Speaker 1:I think he was just doing, you know, researching areas, which is what he was known for. He was researching areas that were real to him and at the time, the internet was about 10 years old and they couldn't clamp down on him that way, and he was getting people to look at areas that they couldn't clamp down on him that way, and he was getting people to look at areas that they didn't want them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but Scientology-related areas. Are you talking about Scientology stuff are you talking about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm talking about technical areas, things on the past track. You know he was developing processes that made people a lot more able. He was out there, which really pisses off the establishment. He was putting the data out there for free F-R-E-E. He wasn't charging anybody for it and that's the most dangerous individual. Lrh was one of those guys too, up to a point that the church got taken over. I can't say for CBR. I don't know much about that particular lineage on the whole thing, but I'm sure it was fairly cost-effective. But that's the thing. When you get people giving out diamonds for free as far as spiritual enhancement and empowerment, then they become a big threat and they need to be taken care of in the bad guy's eyes okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, was he really starting to get um indie missions set up or really pushing?
Speaker 1:all he was doing? All he was doing was publishing his, his, his findings on the internet, and he was publishing his processes on the internet. That was, that was enough. And wow, even if, even at that point in time, uh, the powers that be know how many webs, what website is getting how many views and how it's getting spread around and all that stuff, I mean, that's the only reason the internet exists. It isn't because it's an empowering thing, because the powers that be aren't going to allow that sort of thing to go on. I used to wonder why the Internet was allowed to develop and expand and become what it is today. But what it is today is not what it was 20 years ago so.
Speaker 2:So so my research, and well, my idea, is that that they had to let it get popular and get in use and everything, so that then they could control it and have everyone you know what I mean like yeah, that's what it's become yeah controlling if you if you want to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can go to any website. Anybody that has a website can look at exactly the mannerisms and what the person is looking at on that website at any given moment in real time. Now, 20 years ago you couldn't do that. You had the hard data but you didn't have that capability. But now you can look at whatever somebody's looking at on a website. You can see what they're scrolling to. You can see where they stop what they're reading. There's heat maps as to where their mouse is.
Speaker 2:It's a telescreen. It's a telescreen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's a window into what the person's thinking, what the person's reading, and that's what it's become. It's a Big Brother tool, unfortunately, and it's a mass merchandising tool as well. It isn't for research, and all of the positive things, for the most part, have been removed, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:So quickly? What positive things have been removed? Just quickly tell me that.
Speaker 1:Well, like I mentioned several times in our conversations, the hardest thing to spot is a missing list. If people use things for Google and they're looking for something on Google, google is going to show them what Google wants them to see. It didn't used to be that way. It was a lot different 15, 20 years ago. Well, you could go and look for something and there it was. But now Google gives you what Google thinks you want or what Google wants to give you, and if you don't play by google's rules, you aren't on google period. Google will ban you and, for all intents and purposes, you don't exist to the nearly eight billion people on the planet, because if you can't find it on google, you don't exist.
Speaker 1:So they're fundamentally altering the reality of the people that they are having as users. We are the commodity. That's what it's become and that's how they control people. That's how they control scientology and and one of the things I wanted to touch on is the issue of net neutrality If the FCC gets their way, scientology in the field, as we know, it is going to find it extremely hard to continue, and that's why it's extremely important for everybody, because what's going to happen is you're going to have a couple of players who are going to speed up and slow things down, dependent upon who's paying them in order to have that information. So if you imagine Google was bad enough, this takes it times 100.
Speaker 2:No way, because they're only going to…. Whoa.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because they're pretty bad. They're pretty going to Whoa. Yeah, because they're pretty bad. They're pretty bad now, even the podcast's website. I've tried to click on it sometimes and that little monkey picture error comes up and it just doesn't allow you to click on it, and I imagine that's something to do with OSA paying Google or something, so that people can't click on it. So what are you saying? It's very positive. What's this net neutrality thing? Now? What's this?
Speaker 1:well, here here in the united states, the uh, a former lawyer for verizon, which is one of the big three uh cell phone companies here in the united states, is now the head of the federal communications commission in the United States, and here this week they're going to try and pass. They're basically going to do away with net neutrality, which gives a level playing field for all of the people on the Internet, whether it's Netflix or it's Google, or it's Wikipedia or Facebook or whatever. But what they're trying to do is they're trying to make it where, if you are trying to watch Netflix and Netflix isn't paying, one of the companies that is providing that bandwidth Netflix has to give them money or they slow down their internet speed. Now, take that and do the math.
Speaker 1:And if you're talking about things like old Scientology, project Camelot, project Avalon, jeff Rintz's website you know these sorts of things, things that are a little less unpopular and tend to make waves they're going to slow that stuff down real quick and they already know, and they have it classified, whether it's a torrent of lrh's lectures or whether it's my website or if it's something that you've got on youtube or whatever. They know all of this information and they'll slow it down, and what happens is they'll eventually choke off all of the dandelions in the field until they've replaced it with a type of grass seed that makes only the type of grass they want grow so hold on to the internet, as we know so you're saying this is like the corporate takeover of the internet, because only people, only rich corporations can afford to pay this, this bribe or whatever, to actually come up in in google search engines, or?
Speaker 2:but what about the other search engines?
Speaker 1:you know, like yeah well, the thing is is google. Google portion of the search industry on the internet is basically about 96 97 percent. Uh, bing doesn't come close. Yahoo doesn't come close because yahoo uses bing. Uh, you know all of the search engines that we used to have back in the late 90s, early 2000s. It's come down to google and bing and yahoo. I mean you know, there just aren't that many anymore. It's like um, five companies own all of the radio stations, tv stations and most of the printed media companies in the United States Five companies. So the same thing is going to happen to the Internet if this passes here in the US, and that is really going to put a crimp in our style as Scientologists because our data is going to be slowed down. So I've been saying for months that if you want the Scientology materials, download them now and save it in six places. That's not on the internet, it's a place that you have it.
Speaker 2:When's this all happening? This week, Like as in? They're going to pass this law. Is it for America, or all over the world, or what?
Speaker 1:Well, it's for America, and I think America will be the litmus test as to whether, if they can get it through here, then they'll push it through in the EU and then Australia and all that slowly but surely. But this is sort of a dry run. If they can get it past us, they're home free. That's at least what they think.
Speaker 2:Okay, so already, I imagine they're home free, that's, that's at least what they think. Okay, so already, um, I imagine they're probably doing this with the sites where you can download lh tech, from where you click on it and just doesn't work. I assume that's happening to other people, because it's happening to my stuff. Um, yeah, so, what so, what? So it's basically another form of attack as well, in that you just won't be able to find it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you won't be able to find it or it's going to take an insanely long amount of time to get something, or the speed, and so, if you do find it, the speed will be slower as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they're going to throttle anything. Basically, you have to pay the ferryman. They're going to throttle anything. Basically, you have to pay the ferryman. It's it's the same business model for the entire internet in the united states as we have now here in the us and worldwide, where you get a 20 gigabyte allotment and if you want any more than 20 gigabytes, you've got to pay the ferryman to get more than that. And that's what they're going to do with the internet at large. It's the next big jump so that they can control and make more money off of the most popular things.
Speaker 1:Netflix isn't one of those players and they're trying to get all of their subscribers to say to their you know, their their congressmen and representatives that they don't want this thing to pass because it's going to send the price of of Netflix representatives that they don't want this thing, to pass because it's going to send the price of, of, uh, netflix, yeah all this stuff way up, because they're going to have to pay more money to pay the ferryman in order to get their zeros and ones from them to eat, and anybody that doesn't pay the ferryman. Well, the ferry only goes so far. It goes really slow. So this is the next big move by Big Brother to control and enslave and all that stuff, because the Internet's gotten to a size now that they have to pay attention to it and they have to monetize it for the 1%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it must make it a lot more expensive for people who want to have websites and these sorts of things. It's just going to put the price up heaps, isn't it? Unless you want to be really really small and unusual that no one's really going to reach anyway. So you get the first 20 gig free or whatever, right, but if you ever want to really do something, it's basically like putting up your utility bills.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it'll come to. Basically, if somebody wants to have a website, their website's going to cost them basically what it would cost them to have an apartment or pay a mortgage on a house. It's a fairly big business. It's going to cost you a lot more than that because you're going to have to pay for that bandwidth in order to get people onto your site and to take things off of your site and basically, what it is is controlling information, controlling knowledge, which controls who has the power. That's the end game on the whole thing, and Scientology is a very powerful technology and if, if this passes, things are going to get slowed down a lot, especially on the torrents.
Speaker 2:those will be the first things to go, which is one of the main lines of dissemination that we have outside of the church for materials um, yeah, so I, I mean I sort of knew this was coming, because I was looking and I was saying I was thinking, you know, I saw what they did with the whole trying to um attack youtube thing and and, uh, make it so that anyone is saying anything that's sort of slightly could be construed as controversial, then they're, they're demonetized and that was a big attack on youtube and stuff. Um, but now I I've known that they've, they've been, they've obviously been trying, they've been wanting to somehow just shut down the internet or getting control of it because it was too wild, wild west yeah, well, they the way they've gotten around, that is, with keywords.
Speaker 1:So, and this gets down to data series, type concepts. So I'll try and keep it as simple as I can. And it isn't a matter of what the keywords are, it's that the individuals who control the priority, the arbitrary significance of keywords, are the ones that are in power. It doesn't matter what the keywords are, it's just the fact that they say that they have the importance that they do. This is something we've seen with our own websites and everything like that. So he who controls the significance, the arbitrary significance, of the semantics of the internet communication, which is keywords, is the one that's in power. So that's what it all comes down to, which again, interestingly enough, is Scientology and Student Hat and LRH. Is it all comes down to semantics? It all comes down to symbolism, because words are symbols. That's that's how they're going to end up controlling this, this thing, because the keywords are what control what ends up first on google, or ends up as the 1,234,536 entry on page 537 on google, or whatever.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it's changed. So back in like 1999 it was more um that if you search something, it came up high if it was more popular. But now you're saying that it's going to be not that at all.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter about popularity no, popularity doesn't have anything to do with it at all. It has to do with the popularity of the keywords that that google adds an arbitrary significance to. Okay, do you see what I'm saying? So a keyword, red, let's say the word red, google says well, red is extremely important to us. It doesn't matter that it means what it means, it's just that it's red because they said that it's important. It doesn't matter what it means, it's just that it's red because they said that it's important. It doesn't matter what red means.
Speaker 2:So they'll make red come up in a search. They'll make red come up higher. Yeah, because they said it's important so if you're rich, you can just pay them and they'll make you more important.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, that's what it's coming down to. Is these keywords? Okay, so it's coming down to literally, not dictionary, definitions of words. It's coming down to what they say this word means. Now, if you want me to take this a step further and blow your mind, they're rewriting the English dictionary language. Yeah, of course, yeah, Right, so they can send the society in whatever direction they want to because they control the dictionary, the semantics and the lexicon of people that are using it.
Speaker 2:Okay, can you give me an example of that?
Speaker 1:Well, let me think here, Give me a second.
Speaker 2:Well, what about spiritual counseling or something like that, or independent Scientology? How could you well, maybe?
Speaker 1:Well, you just don't show it, you just don't show it. Well, maybe, no, you just don't show it. You just don't show it. I mean, you know, they can literally control whether something shows up or not on google if they don't want to show it and they think it's like you know, like with your videos, for example. That's a prime example. Okay, there was what, was it the one that you were talking about? Transgender stuff? That? All of a sudden stopped working. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a prime example. If they think it isn't going along with what their program is, what their agenda is, it just stops working. Google owns YouTube. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It could be as simple as that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it could be as simple as that. But see, the thing is is it goes deeper than that, because they're literally changing the definition of words based off of what they want to make them. Like ellen rate says it's an arbitrary. Okay, I mean in the english language, you look at, you look at a definition of a word and you'll see that you get to the derivation. It had absolutely nothing to do with the common day used definition in present time. It was something completely different and more often than not, it was Latin.
Speaker 1:So this is what we're seeing, but instead of it taking thousands of years, it's literally overnight, based off of the agenda of Google, because Google is the world's dictionary. Now, any other dictionary is subservient to a search engine. I mean, this is what's happened. So the importance, relatively speaking, of the, the independent or free zone scientology movement I mean, they can wipe it off the map by slowing things down, by not showing it in the search engine or simply by saying, okay, well, the website doesn't have any keywords on it. It doesn't have any keywords, it's there's. None of these words are in the text, because that's what google looks for. Is they look for words in the text, the copy that you have on the website. So if you're talking about transgenderism on google, five, six, seven times, you need to have that on your front page for google to say, oh, they're talking about transgender, all right, so we're going to put them under that phylum of transgender.
Speaker 1:But the thing is is they can also play that with other keywords, so then it won't show up and Google is a moving target as far as what their actual algorithm is. They change their algorithm all the time, so nobody figures it out. That's how they stay on top. Their algorithm all the time, so nobody figures it out. That's how they stay on top, because they keep altering it and changing the rules as time goes on so that they can stay on top, and that's what google will do from here on out. They figured that that game out. The rest of it is who controls google and what their agenda is. And their agenda isn't yours and my agenda.
Speaker 2:It's something completely different but I know this is all true. I know because when I uploaded like a silly transgender vid, it lasted for, like I don't know, at least six hours or something, and then it's not like it got. I got a warning like and it said you know, this is inappropriate, we're taking this down. I think it sort of said that. But also my whole Facebook just played up and had like a virus I think I had to like it. Just something weird went on. Like I triggered some automatic program in the internet to attack what I'd done on Facebook, like it attacked it and like it automatically was logging me out of Facebook. And it was.
Speaker 2:It was just weird, you know, and I don't know. It's kind of strange because I thought, you know, you would think that they would just send you a message and say this is inappropriate, your video has been banned. But they, it was more than that. It was like whoa, it was like what the hell is going on here? Like I actually my head, I thought have I pissed off some lefty that's like an internet nerd, that that saw it and then thought I'm gonna go and attack andy and get him. But I don't think that was the case. Like I know I pissed off some lefties, but I think it was more something that's like automatic that's written into the program of facebook or the internet or something, that when someone something like this is done, or when someone flags something like this, then these things will happen and it just will trigger in and attack it and break down yeah, well, I mean it.
Speaker 1:It goes without saying that if facebook can start creating ai programs to where the ai programs start communicating with each other in their own made-up language to the point that Facebook has to shut the thing down and pull the cord on the whole thing, it's getting out of hand. Obviously it's within reason to say if they want to do that with the American public or the world public at large and feed them what it is they want to feed them and not feed them any information that enlightens them. Vis-a-vis a search engine that everybody uses, I mean you can look at a search engine. That's literally as an informational dictionary. It's not just for words, it's for concepts, it's for everything. And if they there's a pdf on the internet, let's say it's uh, the technical volumes of scientology.
Speaker 1:There's ai out there that could take that information and they could change the pdf and then repost it and put it in the same place and you'd never be the wiser yeah it could be that it could be that bad, it could be that simple, and it may have already occurred, because we've know like we mentioned in some of the other shows, these things have already been noted that changes are occurring. So, like Ellery says, the hardest thing to spot is a missingness and that's the deal is it's already come that far. So what you're experiencing is you're not crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, yeah, crazy, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah, you just, you know, like when you go to click on the podcast app or or the website or whatever and occasionally just stuffs up, you know it's, you know it's not some bullshit, legitimate error, like it's just. It's just there's more going on. Um, so, if someone wants to download all of Scientology's materials, all of them, what's the best way to do that? The easiest and best way?
Speaker 1:Well, I can't sanction any particular place just for the fact that I don't know if things have been altered yet or not, because I don't know what I don't know have been altered yet or not, because I don't know what I don't know. But Matrix Files you enter in Google Matrix Files, Scientology, and that will take you to a website that's a friend of mine and he has a vast majority of all of the Scientology information that's available out in PDF and audio format that's available out PDF and audio format.
Speaker 1:Scientolopedia also has torrents that. They have a lot of the materials on that you can get and not in forms of torrents. Also, they also have the books and things like that. A lot of things can be found on Facebook. There's a few secret groups out there that have a lot of hard-to-find materials too. Apis has, I believe they have a downloadable area, and I think Ron's org does too, and all of that.
Speaker 1:But the fact of the matter is the material is only as good as you can read it. Something that's in ones and zeros if we happen to have an EMP event or something like that, isn't going to do you much good. So I highly recommend that you get a hard copy of everything, especially the technical volumes, especially the OT levels. Don't read them until you're ready to do them obviously the Ls, that sort of a thing and uh, get trained as an auditor as quick as you can, because they're really starting to tighten down on, uh, our rights for spiritual freedom, in my estimation so you'd probably say, um, find on ebay or that tech library something, or just wherever you can secondhand or whatever.
Speaker 2:Buy as much physical copy of the tech as you can and then also get all the tech in digital form.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get it as soon as you can, as fast as you can, because who knows how long it'll still be available. I mean, that's my concern, that's my knowingness, and, looking into the future, I think it's going to be a very hard-to-find commodity and hard copy is superior to digital copy, if you can get it.
Speaker 2:Speaking of the future, it sounds like you've got a bit of a bleak opinion of the future. What's the deal with that?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know that I would call it bleak, but luck favors the prepared, and LRH says there's only two ways to be wrong, which is one of my favorite quotes, and that is over or underestimation of effort. So if you looked at the tech library type thing and you underestimated, uh, what was going to go wrong, and then you couldn't get it anymore, how would you feel? Well, you underestimated the situation. Uh, I'd much rather overestimate and have three copies of everything too hard, one digital or you know several digital in several places. But a paper copy is going to help you a lot more than something that needs electrons to push it around to show you. I'm not all doom and gloom on everything either, but I'd much rather overestimate than under.
Speaker 2:I was listening to some stuff by David Icke and he was saying how he really thinks that the good side's going to win, like he really thinks that and he refuses he didn't say the word postulate, but he sort of refuses to postulate that you know that the Orwellian police state will come in and I've been a bit, you know, I don't know what to say. I mean, I was pretty inspired by what he was saying. But then you listen to other stuff and next minute I'm thinking, nah, nah, we're going to go down the toilet. So what do you really think? Like what do you really think the future is going to involve? And is it a matter of just? You should just really think that you should really posture that really hard and do it, and it's going to be good well, I mean, you know a posture that just takes.
Speaker 1:You know it's in the blink of an eye and it's a matter of put it up there and decide what you want to do. It doesn't solve the situation but, um, it's, it's part of the formula and postulates alone won't. Won't solve things. Uh, action in the physical universe does. Um, and I think that if, if things keep going on the on the uh course, that they're going in the free zone and in the independent field, scientology as we know it will cease to exist within the next 50 years. Uh, because, uh, nobody can get along with anybody else, and I mentioned that in one of the other podcasts. And it's not getting any better, it's getting worse. And it needs to be some sort of a central organization, a central OT committee, people working together and standards being put there. Whether people like it or not, a good qualifications division is the only thing that's going to solve this mess that we're in as far as independent Scientologists and freeze owners. The same thing goes for planet Earth If we don't get some sort of a good qualifications division going to handle these situations, whether you're talking about the movie industry or the politics side of things. We're done for we're done for because the pedophiles will take over I mean, they all pretty much have anyway. The sexual deviance in the movie industry, all of that stuff. I mean this is just scratching the surface. This is just the social tone that we're seeing in the media, with the Hollywood movie industry, for example, and the cosmic ping pong pizza thing that surfaced over the summer out of DC. This is a reality.
Speaker 1:One of the best books out there on what's really going on with the elites is a book called Transformation of America T-R-A-N-C-E-F-O-R-M-A-T-I-O-N of America. It's written by a girl who was part of this pedophilia. She was brought up in it as a little girl and it's a hard read. But these are the individuals that are running the planet and that's what needs to be uncovered, beyond what's already being uncovered, which is a good thing. There's some good things happening, but it goes a lot deeper than that. It's going to take a lot more confront than what we're actually having right now in order to clean the slate.
Speaker 2:So you think that the Scientology independent movement is getting worse and is shrinking?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's shrinking, and part of the reason it's shrinking is that if you look at on Facebook, just for example, if you want to look at a metric- well over 85% of the people that are on Scientolopedia's Facebook page or my Facebook page for the advanced learning.
Speaker 2:You mean the groups, groups of the Facebook pages.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can look at the age of the people in those groups. Most of those people are in their late 50s to early 70s. Oh, yeah, yeah, any of the Scientologists that were after the big, huge 70s crush movement, when Scientology was at its peak. I'm one of the rare individuals from my particular decade of the 80s the late 80s that is in the field and is doing something and trying to push forward. I have no peer from my age group. None, this is what I'm talking about yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and all of the old guard, the class 12s, are dropping like flies. The second tier of class 12s dropping like flies are disaffected, third tier of which Pierre Ethier is one. He's in really bad physical shape and nobody can take care of him as a being for whatever reason. Hold on a second.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? Different tiers of Class 12?
Speaker 1:Well, you've got the guys that were trained by LRH. You've got the guys that were trained by LRH, who trained Class 12. Then you've got the guys who were trained by guys who were trained by LRH. You've got the guys that were trained by LRH who trained class 12s, then you've got the guys who were trained by guys who were trained by LRH. So it's like degrees of class 12s First degree, second degree, third degree. There is no fourth degree.
Speaker 2:How many?
Speaker 1:of them is there.
Speaker 2:By the way.
Speaker 1:That are actually in the field.
Speaker 2:Well, how many people have been made Class 12 in history?
Speaker 1:Legitimate Class 12s, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 or 40.
Speaker 2:I heard an interview with Karen De La Caria saying how she got to Class 12 and how she goes. Yes, only me and six others were Class 12s, or something like that.
Speaker 1:Well, the first tier. There weren't a tremendous number of them. You know, I'm not a Class 12. I don't claim to be. I can audit out of 11. But there weren't that many that were trained. And the thing is, is that a vast majority of those people will be dead within the next 10 years? Yeah, but what? Probably less than half of them left.
Speaker 2:Was there six or was there 30? It seems like you know.
Speaker 1:There was less, probably less than 15. Now there's. I mean you know I can count on one hand the number of class 12s, real class 12s in the field. I mean there's just, there aren't that many left and okay, yeah, you know, it's it, it's dwindling rapidly. Class eight same thing. They're dropping like flies because they're they were 70s guys, yeah 60s and 70s guys late 60s, early 70s, guys late 60s, early 70s.
Speaker 1:So we need to do something about this and get some other people trained and qualified to do all of this stuff and strengthen our ranks, because the Knights of the Round Table are dying off awfully fast.
Speaker 2:Can I ask something? You mentioned how, in the early 80s, people were saying that the church had been taken over by Markabians or something. How the hell did they bring that up in conversation? How did they say that? As in did they say all they're interested in is money. So that's a real Markabian thing, or something like that.
Speaker 1:I really couldn't say I mean you know, whatever LRH talks about, the Markabian thing or something like that. I really couldn't say I mean you know, whatever LRH talks about the Markabians mainly in the briefing course materials is where most of that data comes from. There isn't a book that I'm aware of of any of LRH's stuff that talks about the Markabians. It's only in lectures. So you know how much of this was dub in on their part, how much of it is fact. Like I said, it doesn't really matter. There's probably upwards of 100 different species of life forms on this planet that came from somewhere else than here In one form or another, or something we can't see. Not really, I mean it doesn't matter, it is what it is and, like LRH says, the physical universe is far stranger than any science fiction novel you would ever read. So that's just how it is.
Speaker 2:Well, what about when Captain Bill found out that the church had now become an in-plan or something, and how he wrote a com or something, and I think he pretended to be LRH when he wrote the com or something and he spread it around I think it was around 1980 or something and then he got in trouble and kicked out of the church, or something like that. Where the hell is this policy letter that he wrote? Have you heard about this?
Speaker 1:I've heard some things about it. I don't know enough about it to comment on it. Whether it's true or not, I don't know. If it is true, well, people screw up. I mean LRH screwed up by letting people on his lines that screwed him over. These things happen. He said he was a man, not a God. Shit happens, that's how it is, and I know people that have been declared and done their A to E and gotten back on lines in the church and they probably shouldn't have and they thought they were playing for the right team. I mean, you know, all kinds of goofy things can happen and robertson may have done something goofy no, I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I mean he was telling everyone what, what he thought's going on in the church and happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean he he talks about in, uh, a lot of the, the early lectures, how he found moles in the church and he tried to report it and turn it in and nobody did anything, which I mean you know totally falls in line with what's happened. And this is stuff he was saying at the time. 1980, 81, 82, 83, you know, david Mayo didn't really subscribe to LRH's ethics policies and his ethics viewpoint and so didn't use it in his organization and then ended up going appetite over 10. What ethics policy is that?
Speaker 2:Just quickly.
Speaker 1:Well, mayo wasn't real keen on the ethics portion of scientology yeah okay so as in the whole looks. Yeah, conditions, things like that. And you know there there are some things in the ethics materials that rub people the wrong way and bypass charge.
Speaker 1:I mean it's understandable. But the thing is is that the majority of this stuff works, but when it's misused on people, then it doesn't work because you have to handle that bypass charge and you know putting ethics in the hands of people who aren't OT. And I mean when I say OT, I mean OT, I don't use the term loosely and don't act like a bunch of bumbling idiots and buffoons. You can get something done. You can really really push a civilization along quick because these things do work. But the disconnection thing LRH did away with that and people wah wah wah, disconnect this. Wah wah wah, disconnect that. Lrh got rid of it. Was it RJ67 or 68?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that was brought back in by Miscavige. You want to blame somebody? Blame Miscavige, don't blame LRH. He saw that it was wrong and he got did away with it. The ethics stuff that that may have had a problem with may have had a problem with it because they made him run around a goddamn pole all day. I mean, you know sure he's gonna have a problem with it. I get it. So this is something that happened and it caused the downfall of his organization because he was blind to it, because nobody handled his bypass charge on it, most likely. And robertson saw a lot of really crappy things going on in upper management, tried to report it and got shot down and eventually got taken out of the organization because he was trying to tell people. Basically, invasion of the body snatcher style. This is what's going on. These people aren't scientologists yeah and and uh.
Speaker 2:If anyone knows where we can find this policy letter, I would love to read that because that, out of all policy letters, imagine coming across that if you're on staff in the church like, you'll be like what the hell is this? The church has become an implant that'll be really cool. So someone comment or contact me and let me know where the hell I could read this, because I haven't seen this anywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that was the thing that was happening with the missions and the orgs back in 82, 83, is that they were getting these mail packs in from the CLOs, their Continental Liaison Offices, where something would be sent out an HCOB or a policy letter or something like that and then in the next mail pack it would be sent out an HCOB or a policy letter or something like that, and then in the next mail pack it would be canceled. The next mail pack would be reenacted, because what was happening is that there was this huge drama going on on the back lines that was causing people to see that there was something terribly wrong inside the church with these policies that were coming out, and then they were being revoked, and then they were being reinstated and all of this stuff. So you could see why people would say, well, the Markabians are taking over and there's good guys on the other end trying to stop them, blah, blah, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1:Whether that's the case or not, I can either confirm or deny, but it was palpable to these orgs and missions and so that started the snowball rolling downhill.
Speaker 1:And and to these orgs and missions and so that started the snowball rolling downhill and Kansas City, the largest. Well, kansas City mission was the largest mission in the Midwest and should have been an org years before, but they didn't make it an org. And then when this whole thing went down, with the Mission Holders Conference and all of the Markabian stuff and the changing ATOBs and PLs, with the Mission Holders Conference and all of the Markabian stuff and the changing ATOBs and PLs, it went from over 100, 120 people to one guy overnight, with everybody's PC folders, in somebody's garage in Lee's Summit, which is a suburb of Kansas City, overnight. So single-handedly, whatever SP came on the lines during the Mission Holders Conference and did this, basically took Scientology off the map at that point in time and there was one guy in the org for about six years. And then only then did the Church of Scientology take Kansas City Mission and turn it into an org when it had one staff member, which is a violation of policy.
Speaker 2:I'm amazed about this pilot's death thing because it was just like you know, if I heard he was, you know, starting out this really cool indie org and getting all activity and stuff, I'd be like, oh okay, you know they took him out. But I mean, he was just doing stuff on the internet and just coming up with cool processes and stuff, and even that possibly they took him out. And that's pretty amazing that you're saying that OSA is willing to go that far.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying OSA did it. I don't say that at all. I don't think that OSA did it. I top dog, the lead dog, or anything like that. And even if he isn't told, there are other organizations on the outside that are clearing the way for his bad behavior and the direction that he's pushing scientology into, like the pilot taking him out now. The interesting thing is is the last time I checked, the pilot's website was still up and he died over 10 years ago, almost probably 13 years ago, something like that. So somebody's keeping it there to date.
Speaker 2:I don't know who, I don't know why, but I'm glad that they are do you think it could like just quickly, could be something to do with, like the military, for example, because they had their psychic spies and all this sort of stuff, so they don't like somebody that's waking people up to this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, whether it's the military or not there, that doesn't want people to go spiritually free, which has been the common theme for an extremely long period of time, and I'm not talking just in in the last 7500, 200 million years, I'm talking about a very long time in this universe, and it's it's the common theme is you can't let people go free, so you. So whether it's the military or not is irrelevant. It's just the fact that that's what's happening and it's evident and it's palpable because of the state of Scientology as well as other religions on the planet.
Speaker 2:Wow, it's really deep, so I want to get an answer to this definitely. What do you think will happen in the future? Will things go down the toilet or will we make it?
Speaker 1:Well, historically speaking, at some point in time things will go belly up. That's just been the way it is.
Speaker 2:Every society on this planet has been subverted by second dynamic activity and a de-evolution of civility but being a Scientologist, you should know about postulates and considerations and stuff and you shouldn't be postulating that.
Speaker 1:I'm not postulating it. I'm merely observing what's happened in the past. I'm not postulating it. I'm merely observing what's happened in the past. I'm not saying that things can't be changed in the future. But my postulate, and what I do is I mean, there have been a lot of individuals Martin Luther King, john Lennon, jesus Christ if in fact he did exist.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's not the question, that's good.
Speaker 1:You know, single individuals can make a very, very big difference. But, that being said, it's going to take a lot more than what we're seeing right now from all of the Scientologists outside of the church, and especially inside of the church, for Scientology to make it as a subject. I'm not talking as a religious corporation that's wholly owned by a subsidiary of the US government or the US government themselves. It's going to take a lot more than that and it's going to take ARC. It's going to take people getting their overts and withholds off, getting their technical standards raised, caring about one another and getting in the same room, sitting down at the same table and saying I'm sorry for what I did, here's what I did, because if that doesn't happen soon, we aren't going to have anything.
Speaker 1:Just in the time that I've been involved in the field, it has exponentially gotten worse, and before that, before I was actually auditing as an auditor and hung out a shingle, I had nine years that I watched it devolve and the infighting and nobody trusting each other and all of this stuff. This isn't Scientology that's going on in the independent field. It is division that is being created by one or more individuals, and I don't disagree with a lot of the things that Scott Gordon has looked into. With a lot of the things that Scott Gordon has looked into, I think a lot of that is very true and valuable data as far as the sources of those divisions. So I don't think we have a lot of time left unless people grow up, start caring about each other, loving one another and doing something about it and getting in calm and handling the situation, because if the church doesn't take us out and the government doesn't take us out, we'll take each other out. It's just Machiavellian theory.
Speaker 2:Well, I can't believe that the Sires are still arguing amongst each other because I mean, you've just got to get on with it. It's just silly having arguments and fights. Just just focus on the goal and and you know just uh, what do they fight about?
Speaker 1:for example, well, uh, the tech, I think, is a primary thing. Uh, there's the the of when it got out is when the tech was true and pure, and that very few individuals got out at the same time. So they have a little bit of a degree or two or four or five degrees difference on what the reality is, on what the definition of high TA is, whether they got out in the 60s or the 70s or the 80s or the 90s, just little things like that. Because it causes an ARC break, because it's outreality and that there's no common ground, there's no common definition.
Speaker 1:Because when the tech was attacked, or LRH came up with something prior to that and said wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, there is such a thing as past lives. I mean, even then, back in the early 50s, lrh said this stuff, they're coming up with past lives, it's a bunch of hooey, don't believe it. A day or two later he comes up with another lecture and says remember when I said it was a bunch of hooey, it's true, okay, I mean, this is how the tech evolved. But the thing is, is the tech evolution got to be so muddied with whoever was writing it, who got approved, and whether LRH approved it or if it was a board policy letter, or when this guy got out in 69 and this other guy got out in 77. And so they can't see eye to eye because there's no qual in the field. When LRH says if an organization doesn't have a qual, it's finished, it's finished.
Speaker 2:Okay, but hold on so to handle cases in the independent field. Other indies have to work with other indies, and that's where the problem's coming. So is it kind of like staff members arguing amongst staff members, basically, Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. But you know, there's no chaplain's court, there's no port of safe harbor, if you will, where somebody can say well, this happened in this session and I think this is out-tech, christ, you can't even get them to share PC folders. You know, christ, you can't even get them to share pc folders. I mean, I've even heard of an organization burning somebody's pc folders and telling another auditor that they burned their pc folders because they didn't want anybody else having them. I mean, this is how far this stuff has gone. I'm not making this up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. It's so ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, whether that's true or not I can either confirm or deny, but it wouldn't surprise me. Um, you know, and you've got class 12 auditor training another auditor to learn how to do the l's and then wanting them to give them a piece of the action for every person that they audit on the L's, and then that person agreeing to it and then not doing it anymore and telling them ah, fuck you, I'm not going to do that anymore. That shouldn't be happening. He didn't make up the L's. This guy's trying to do it for somebody else. But see, the thing is is you enter in this really funky arbitrary called money and it makes people loopy and that's the biggest problem that we have is because that arbitrary in there is creating the problem, because everybody needs to survive yeah, people start being dishonest to get more money and and that's the problem you have to right it's you have to focus on the product and then the side effect.
Speaker 2:The second thing that happens is the money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's never been about the money. In Scientology it's what you're doing caring for the person in front of you, what you're doing for them. I mean Christ. The OT3 package in 1973 was $3,000. That included Solo 1, solo 2, setups OT1, 2, and 3. $3,000. That included Solo 1, solo 2, setups OT 1, 2, and 3. $3,000. Used to be able to get an intensive for $250.
Speaker 1:Now, granted, the inflation has increased exponentially since then, but still it shouldn't be anywhere near what it is in the field, or in the church especially. But the thing is is that everybody's got to eat, everybody's got got to keep the lights on pay their bills. That's one of the reasons why you don't see people getting trained in the field is because there's no money in it. There's just no money in it for people, because it takes so long to make an auditor that if you charge them for what your time is worth maybe a minimum of $50 an hour to make somebody a class four you're looking at hundreds and hundreds of hours that you have to pour into them. They're not going to be able to pay you that.
Speaker 1:So they say well, here's the check sheet. You can do it yourself. If you have any questions, let me know be able, I'll help you out as I can, sort of a thing. And so then you get this funky tech. You get guys out there, they're not properly fully trained or something, and they're trying to take on something that's way above their pay grade, if you will, I mean. It goes on and on and on. So that's why the field's in the shape that it's in and without a qual and without people willing to do a mea culpa on the fact that they're not really trained properly, it's not going to progress and it's going to go the way of the dodo, within my lifetime probably. So we need to get together, and that's why I'm still trying to postulate an auditor's summit and a co-audit summit to get everybody in the same room both tech and public all in one place.
Speaker 2:Well, when they have the Scientology summits or whatever the Ray Robles ones, one of the days could be an auditor's summit.
Speaker 1:It could be. But see, the thing is that you're not going to get everybody there. I mean, you know, the common agreement at that type of convention is that, yeah, we're going to do what we're going to do and you're going to do what you're going to do, and we all agree that we're all going to do what we do, and that's just how it's going to be and that's literally literally been what's happened. It's because everybody wants to get creative with the tech and they want to do their own things. And the thing is is that if there is no stable datum, if we're not all doing the same thing and I'm not saying that there might be some new, a better bridge, but it's got to be based on a stable datum, lrh's stable datum, and we say, okay, we all agree on this and we're going to go forward in this fashion, because otherwise somebody gets screwed up by Joe, because Joe's doing something that he made himself, he won't give the PC folders.
Speaker 1:And then Mary comes along, she's trying to fix this guy because he's begging and pleading and he feels horrible and he has headaches, he's got a bad case of gout. All of a sudden. Then she doesn't know how to handle the guy or fix the guy, because she doesn't know what was done, because some new thing that was done might have bypassed charge on the person, made them feel horrible, but that person won't give them any of the information because it fares. That's the problem. So we need to have a stable data. That's why summit needs to be handled, the air and sea breaks and the rudiments need to be gotten in between all the field auditors and it's then you know it's like all right, listen, we need to all be on the same page. We're not each other's enemies, we are each other's friends and we're all that we've got. We're family. Knock this shit off. Let's get the show on the road.
Speaker 1:Let's agree what this stuff is, and you're going to go to qual. If you fuck up on somebody and you're going to fix them for free, you're not going to charge them for that. You're not going to fix them for free. You're not going to charge them for that. You're going to charge somebody for something you screwed up on them on. That's one of the things the church did. That's one of the biggest problems the church has had. You don't charge somebody for something you screwed up on them on, but that's another story.
Speaker 1:So, what you're saying is basically that the Indies in America should unite and form one org. I'm saying the Indies on the planet should. There isn't enough of them in America and, if you want my personal opinion, the indies in the United States are far, far, far more screwed up than they are any other place on the planet, mainly because they were in the sea of work that's my opinion, yeah, but well, I believe in the free market and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:So I mean, I, I don't know, I think it's a cool idea. Someone should get in there and say let's unite and form one big org, right?
Speaker 1:I'm also not saying that that org should be top heavy and tell everybody what to do. I'm just saying a lightness of organization is lrh's catchphrase for for that it shouldn't be heavy-handed. It shouldn't. You're going to ethics I am the ethics officer and all that crap. It needs to be run by people who are really OTs and want to get the show on the road and help people and do that. That's the way it needs to be. It doesn't have to be heavy-handed. It can be run really, really lightly and if it isn't, we're done. That's all there is to it. That's, that's. That's my opinion. That's my point.
Speaker 2:It's just not going to happen well, it's kind of like the um apis. It's like an association of independence and um. They're kind of like an org. You know what I mean. So it's like….
Speaker 1:Yeah well, APIS is a handful of individuals trying to do the right thing and I commend them for that tremendously, but if an auditor wants to be on their website, they have to pay apis 150 dollars and have to get checked out. Hey, there's nothing wrong with the person getting checked out, but it has become and is political period paragraph same thing is is what's been happening with the scientology 2.0 thing, the thing that Jim Fonda started. When I asked them okay, so who's the tech panel? They wouldn't tell me who the tech panel was and they deleted the conversation from Facebook because they don't want to tell you who the tech panel is. Okay, so you're going to start an organization on a withhold of a tech panel.
Speaker 2:Hold on a second. I get what's going on right. Okay, because, yeah, like you said, because people got trained at this time and that time and someone had this bad experience. Basically, you've got all these used cars and the used cars are trying to get combined into one org right and it's going to have problems, but something like ron's org right, where they've got someone who's come in fresh and hasn't done in scientology anywhere else and then they've been trained up. They can have a cool ride and a smooth ride and everything could be sweet, because they're not dealing with used cars.
Speaker 1:So basically, I think, as far as I understand it at least, yeah I think, I think I guess it's a.
Speaker 2:I think maybe it's impossible to get all indies to unite and form one group and just each Indie should start their own mission and have a good div-six on that and deal with making fresh Scientologists.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't disagree on the fresh Scientologists, because a lot of the Scientologists that are out there are damaged goods. I mean damaged goods, and some of them are fixable because they don't want to be fixed. They're happy with their aberrations and they consider them having this. But you know, making new Scientologists is very likely the only way that it will succeed. But the thing is with the Ronzorg guys, they've been able to find a stable platform that they say, okay, well, this is the tech that we're using. I mean, even with the X-Cal stuff they tell people you know, never mind all that space opera stuff and the materials, just pay attention to the process and everything like that. I mean so there you, that's a prime example. So they've all agreed that, okay, the space opera stuff, it's a little heavy, all right. So we're just going to kind of set that aside. Let's look at how you do this particular ot level. This is how you do it and just go with that. So that's what I'm trying to say is is that there needs to be some stable datum like that okay, we're going to go with the 1969 lrh tech. Are we going to go with the 1970 79 lrh tech or the 1982 lrh tech, that sort of thing, because they're all different things, even if you look at it from the viewpoint of what high TA was, from what LRH said on the Class 8 course to what LRH said in the mid-'70s into the 80s, so on and so forth. So this creates division within the ranks of the people out in the field. So there needs to be a stable datum established, there needs to be rudiments gotten in between all the auditors that would work together, third party one another and all that stuff. Then with a clean slate, then you can kind of take it from there.
Speaker 1:I think if you have an organization that basically just serves a qual purpose for tech guys, for admin guys, and says, you know, come in here, let's spot check you on this particular area, and they're in some little town in illinois, but they have an organization, they can get a pass on things and they can say, yeah, you know your shit, now go back out there and get pcs. So there's always somebody helping to qualify people and keep them clean, because if you don't have that, they won't go very far. It's like a bullet into a pool full of jello It'll just and that's it. And that's where we're at right now is that the bullet is reaching the bottom of the pool and it's almost come to a complete stop and it's just going to sit there. And it's just going to sit there unless people get cleaned up and get away from their altitude. Itis of. I'm the most important, I'm the most knowledgeable, I know everything. Everybody else doesn't know anything.
Speaker 2:They're all crazy, because that's where it's at right now um, I think, well speaking, I think it'll be really fun to start up a mission and play that game and try and get it started with fresh new people. Sure, that would be a fun game. I reckon you could do it, I reckon people could do it. They could just go from scratch and just do it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, you know they have to know the policy, they have to know the tech, they have to. You know it's the chicken or the egg. You know you can start something with good intentions, but that will only get you so far. You need to know how to do that. How do you spot a person's tone level? How do you get them in for a personal efficiency course? You know all this. I mean the people that got added on it, like what was the gal's name that you did the interview with two weeks ago, three weeks ago?
Speaker 2:Janice, janice Gray.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they had a rocking mission there in Melbourne because they knew what they were doing. So if they know what they're doing, they can do really well. But and the thing is is that when somebody leaves or something gets dropped out, when somebody leaves, then the missions tend to fall apart or they get suppressed by an overhead org. So you know it, you're. You're only as much at cause as you know the policy and the tech. So we've got to start somewhere. There's got to be a chicken that lays the egg.
Speaker 2:Well, I was thinking Bali would be a beautiful place for an independent version of Flag.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or have a private island.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like.
Speaker 1:Bali or something like that, where they're not part of any country and you have your own, your own jet, your own runway, your own boat to get there, whatever, and you know, as long as, as long as it doesn't become the island of dr moreau or something like that, what's that it would? It would do really well, you know, because things can get out of hand when places are isolated. There's a lot of great fiction stories about that sort of a thing. Isolation is what leads to aberration, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:Hey, did David Mayo really not believe that the OT3 incident occurred?
Speaker 1:I haven't heard anything about that.
Speaker 2:One way, the other, I don't know anything about it, unfortunately okay, I heard ray robles I heard ray robles say that that um that david mayer said that uh, lrh was quite possibly totally wrong about ot3 or something well, all I can tell you is this is that the way that that ot3 is run, it reads like the.
Speaker 1:The incident reads like gangbusters for what you're running it on. Uh, you don't run ot3 on yourself. Lrh changed that early, early on. It was run that way where you actually ran it on yourself. You don't run ot3 on yourself, you run ot3 on a part of the composite case and it reads like crazy and the.
Speaker 2:The winds from it are astounding um, well, and and speaking of that, I mean, look, I know david mayo, you know, was smart and that sort of stuff, but I don't think he he knew like information about the world that like mary sue knew, and like intelligence people know, you know like uh, like the idea that there's you know satanic rituals and pedophile parties and like you know, just real hardcore shit. I don't think that was his hat, I think his hat was more, you know, a really good, caring auditor and a philosophical sort of guy. But there's this whole, there's this whole admin side of life. That's like, I guess, the alex jonesy type of side of life. It's like whoa, this is what's going on pt now, and I don't think david may know that. So basically, what I'm saying is that I would easily especially after um listening to mission earth, I would easily take lrh's uh idea on things over david mayer's any day. Lrh was way more of a genius than he ever was, but he definitely was a real smart, good guy well.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know it's. It's just like anything else in life. You, you meet people who you know. Every thetan has their own area or strength. You could also say that they have their own area of confront. Some thetans have a stronger confront in one area than others do. Some people are suited for black ops type things and other people are suited at baking cakes and they're really, really good at it.
Speaker 1:You know, and, and that's just how it is, and david mayo's strengths played a huge part in what you know later became knots and I I would find it really strange that he, if he thought that the OT3 incidents were invalid, how in the world did he help LRH develop what later became NOTS as a rundown? It doesn't make sense to me. So that doesn't compute. And to go back to what you were saying, yeah, he was probably a really great auditor. He didn't know all this stuff and mary sue had a better understanding of things. I mean, I can either confirm or deny that, uh, but some people have strong scenarios that don't just ever gone, done that walk of life. I don't think that david mayo couldn't confront that data. I think he could. Maybe he just wasn't presented to him. I don't think that david mayo couldn't confront that data. I think he could. Maybe he just wasn't presented to him.
Speaker 2:I don't know all right, look, I've got to fire some questions to you because I still got a bunch of stuff. I want to ask, okay, um, and somehow I need you to answer these as fast as possible, right, okay, okay, get ready. Okay, can the e-meter be used? Is the e-meter a dowsing tool? Is it like a dowsing tool? Basically no, it isn't you sure? No, I heard LRH was using it to, like, find gold and stuff.
Speaker 1:Maybe one of the earlier. You know the earlier ones. The e-meter originally wasn't his idea, matt, it was Matheson's um he basically took the idea from matheson and cast matheson out at one point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they go. Uh, you know, yeah, but you can. You use it like a dowsing tool where you just ask it questions. And because you know how amazing dowsing tools are, have you looked into them? They're like what the hell? You hold these sticks and they just twist. Or people have a gem and they twist it, they turn it some way and then when you ask the question, somehow it turns back and it's like what the hell? It's like the universe talking to you.
Speaker 1:I don't think it could be used as a dowsing tool. No, because the meter is based off of charge, it's based off of resistance or lack thereof. I don't think that, you know? Uh, the dowsing ones operate off of resistance per se. That's just. That's just my viewpoint on it okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Um, the lh birthday game is that uh, something that uh, because it got released in the times where we're questionable. That is, a tech safe and lots of stuff. Is it a load of crap, or is it something lrh actually wrote and sanctioned and lots of stuff?
Speaker 1:well, I can't verify that lrh actually wrote the 339r program, but it's written in such a way that it sure sounds like he wrote it. I mean, I know, I know how LRH's writing sounds, I've read enough of it and I can tell when it's LRH and it's not LRH. I'd say probably 95, 98% of the time. So I think he did write that.
Speaker 2:Okay, but why doesn't it work then? Why is this the retarded thing where you can just shoot up your stats and then you win the birthday game but you're just going up and down like this and it's stupid.
Speaker 1:It's not like it's actually measures you really growing as an org well, the the problem with that is is that it became political and you're dealing with the situation where you get so many points, but what relative to what? And the the point system that they used in the 339r program is was sort of just an arbitrary it didn't really, it didn't really reflect what was going on at that time.
Speaker 1:it's sort of like well, one from zero, that's really something special. Okay, so you went from having no people to one person in the course room Wow, your stats are up. Well, relative to what? Okay, so that was the biggest problem with the 339R program. Right, there was just the point system and the way that they did it, and then on top of that, you had a lot of orgs and missions that were, uh, false reporting statistics in order to be up in the birthday game because there was so much downward pressure to the orgs in order to to get their stats up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know that they would falsify stats or, like the org here in kansas city, they would go out and put ocas on car windshields outside of bars in the westport area. You know, I mean, does that make any sense?
Speaker 2:no, yeah, there was a lot of falsification yeah, really could cause stat pushing, which was just the worst thing ever. It just ruins the org. Hey, I've got a question for you. Okay, this was a comment that was left on youtube from someone called aussie boy and it said that he got the impression that your past life name was jody christened him. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:not by my recollection okay, so jody christened and isn't, and I thought it would just be interesting to bring it up. He wrote that for the last interview we did. Hey, what do you think of Skype auditing? I think it's a bad idea. Yeah, well, it's out tech, isn't it?
Speaker 1:well to say that it's out tech. I mean, if you look at things from a nonce perspective, you can go audit somebody or something remotely and handle a situation in a very positive sense, but there's a liability to doing that because of the composite case of the person that you're auditing. It's sort of like rats jumping a ship. That can be done, but as far as Skype auditing goes, you're not doing it in real time, you're not seeing instant reads and you have no comparable magnitude to what's really being said and what's being done in real time. And it doesn't fly and I I dare anybody to uh convince me otherwise on that. It's not because lrh said that it couldn't happen.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of things lrh didn't predict. That we have now, which is one of these things, is what we're doing right now. We're having video conferencing on our phones, so you know you can talk to somebody on it, but I'm not going to take an instant read off of of uh skype for somebody or you know. I mean I don't agree with the stuff that's going on. I've had a couple people say well, you know, I don't even use a meter, I don't use a meter anymore, I just audit them from a distance, all right. Well then, you're not really doing Scientology, are you All?
Speaker 2:right, cool, I got your answer, All right. Now this one you can give a long answer to. I still don't want a long answer. What the hell is this idea that there was no Jesus Christ? I mean, that's why I mean, when I heard LRH say there was no Christ, I thought maybe they mean he was using the definition of Christ, like there was no Bible, catholic Church, god Christ. I didn't think he was suggesting the idea that that man actually didn't exist. What the hell's going on? What was he suggesting and what's your opinion of this?
Speaker 1:Well, the thing is, for example, as far as Jesus Christ the man goes and him existing, I can either confirm or deny that Maybe there was a guy that was named, that Maybe those things happened that brought him into existence.
Speaker 2:I tend to doubt that and that it was an immaculate conception. So you doubt it was an immaculate conception.
Speaker 1:So you doubt it was an immaculate conception?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I find that very hard to believe. I just think it's all a UFO story. But anyway, keep it going.
Speaker 1:But a lot of the data that's in the Bible has been altered by Roman emperors and then ultimately the Catholic Church. After that, jesus never said he was the son of god. So that's, you know, one of those things there that uh kind of changes the whole game plan on it. That was changed by a roman emperor when he saw that he could make money off of catholicism yeah, so he so.
Speaker 2:So hold on, so could. Earlier in the conversation you mentioned something like the idea that there was no Jesus, right? So you're saying that you do prescribe more to the idea that he never existed as a man? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1:I'm just saying that the story was probably quite a bit different than the way that it's portrayed in current texts.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, because there's some people who really do believe that he never existed and there's no historical record of him existing. I think it's more the fact that he did exist. He was an OT guy. He did exist. But of course, the whole story has been totally taken out of context and they've said oh, he's the son of God and all this stuff.
Speaker 1:Right, but you can't even get a story to remain the same in the same day between three people, so we're talking several centuries, over 2,000 years so I think the story's probably been altered at least a little bit, if not a lot.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right. What's.
Speaker 1:DCSI auditing. Yeah, yeah, the d, the dcsi was the first uh rundown or handling for somebody who may or may not be clear, as opposed to the ccrd, which was originates many years later, uh, by miscavige scientology hold on a second so so lrh?
Speaker 2:are you telling me that LRH never wrote CCRD and never came up with that name and everything?
Speaker 1:I don't know if he did or not. You'd have to ask Dan Kuhn. Then I don't know if that was something LRH sanctioned or not. The DCSI was LRH.
Speaker 2:And what does it stand for?
Speaker 1:Dianetic Clear Special Intensive.
Speaker 2:And that's to check that you've gone clear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not just to check, to put somebody up to where, if they're not clear, they're not unhappy or upset or sad or whatever, and if they are clear it validates the state and they can go on and continue on with the sunshine rundown and then ultimately, solar one and solar two, et cetera.
Speaker 2:Okay, so when did CCRD get released?
Speaker 1:I would not be the person to ask on that. I tend to use a DCSI. The CCRD tends to invalid, um, a couple of the clear states, like a natural clear, for example. Um, and it's tremendously edited from what the dcsi is okay, so I really don't know.
Speaker 2:So he was originated okay, my understanding was in the middle 60s, when they first actually started calling people clear and giving them like a clear number and stuff. They had to pass a checklist of like 20 questions or something like that. I thought that was a CCRD question list. Is that the DCSI question list or is that the Sun Trine countdown?
Speaker 1:But neither actually. Originally, back in the 60s, you had to go in and talk to lrh himself and he would tell you whether you were clear or not but what's this thing?
Speaker 2:or this list that you have to pass the questions, or something you have to fn on, or something?
Speaker 1:well, I don't know between that in the 60s and talking to lrh and the dcsi, but the dcsi came about in the mid to late 70s is that a list of questions you have to sort of FN on, or something?
Speaker 1:No, it's just you're basically asking. It's basically like a big director of processing interview and you're asking a person questions about what you know, what occurred in session. You know, I mean you can't just come out and say you know, clear cog this, clear cog that, because then you're feeding them cognition, so you kind of have to pull it out of them, ask these questions and everything, and and the dsi takes it from several different angles to where you can find out whether the person really went clear or not. That's it, that's its purpose. And then by the end, the list, you're cleaning them up one way or the other as to whether they are or aren't clear and handling any of that bypass charge.
Speaker 2:Does the sunshine rundown involve passing any lifts or anything, or is that done after you've definitely been labeled as clear?
Speaker 1:That's after you've actually gone clear, and it's basically an objective process or processes for the person to kind of stabilize it, stabilize the clear and really put them in PT and just get them ready for their next step. It's very short.
Speaker 2:Okay, I just had the idea if you were someone who, let's say, you're involved with the church and you left and you had been declared clear by the church and now you're not, and then you're made to redo your purif and blah, blah, blah and you're sort of in that situation where you're confused as to what sort of person need to do a few things, and then the DCSI, and then they will finally have that actual state of clear again, something like that.
Speaker 1:You could I mean, if the person really was clear, you wouldn't need to do a DCSI again. You could, you know, basically do a DFP, first a director of processing, interview, find out where any charge is, give them sort of a life repair of sorts, handle any bypass charge coming out of the church, any in-vow eval suppression, that sort of thing, any PTSD to the church, and then you could, once you've got them all kind of cleaned up that way, you know, in a little sort of a miniature, after the church life repair, then you could rehab their grades and when they went clear which you know this happens at a couple of points on the bridge anyway, but if there was any question of it, that's what you could do is just rehab it and date and locate when they went clear. Just rehab it and date and locate when they went clear.
Speaker 2:Okay, but what if they're one of these people that never did the actual grades? Because I'm questionable about these sort of things, because I just feel like everyone should be doing the grades and everyone should be doing the clear certainty rundown. Yeah, I think that's what it's called. You know, I like the 1975 idea, where it was like this is what it is Everyone's doing the grades, everyone's doing the clear certainty. No, no, sorry, no, the clearing course, everyone's doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, the clearing course sort of took a backseat to standard Dianetics around about 72, 73, 73. Dianetics around about 72, 73, 73. And LRH was really hot on standard Dianetics, which was the hottest thing going in his words, and standard Dianetics was basically what would later become New Era Dianetics, which had a couple well, several rundowns added to it and also added a flow, one more flow, to the flows that you audit a person on on Dynetics, audited Dynetics on a meter. So clearing course was generally done for people who did not go clear on standard Dynetics and what was later in weird dynamics.
Speaker 1:As far as the grades go, the grades are great, everybody should do them. Originally it was just the quad part of the grade that was done back in the late 60s and early 70s and then LRH decided, with the help of a couple other individuals, to add on a lot of other processes that may or may not be needed and it's a little bit. As to the length of the grades as you find them now, even as far back as the mid to late 80s They've been extended and extended and extended and extended and with that in mind, the grades are a series of key-outs and nothing more. They key a person out on a particular topic A or C, breaks problems over its withhold service facts and ones um, and then that's what they do they key a person out so that you can get to the reactive mind without all this other bullshit going on. So, yes, you should do them, but you don't necessarily have to do 100 processes in order to do an expanded grade yeah.
Speaker 2:Does that answer your question? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. What about power processing? Does a church even deliver that anymore?
Speaker 1:I doubt it, I don't know for sure. I can neither confirm or deny that.
Speaker 2:I don't know, anybody that's done power for years Isn't the alternate route to clear on the church? Isn't it part of that's like grade five and this is power processing on the church's bridge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's. You know it's something. It's for really tough cases.
Speaker 2:Oh and okay and so, but didn't it used to be for everyone?
Speaker 1:No, okay and so, but but didn't it used to be for everyone? No, no, it's. It's a. It's sort of a in emergency break glass sort of thing. It's for a really tough case.
Speaker 2:It isn't something that everybody should do is this the thing that john mcmaster invented?
Speaker 1:I couldn't tell you I don't know that's that it was a period of time that I don't know. That was a period of time that I don't know much about.
Speaker 2:Can you get power processing in the independent field?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there aren't very many people that do it anymore. There are those who tend to want to use power processing to audit everybody on for everything, which is not what they were intended for. The power processes are like lightning in a bottle and some of them are used in the latter part after Excalibur, between the Phoenix and Excalibur, and they work like gang busters and can be used on part of the composite case if things stick and they will resolve that part of the composite case. I do know that from my own experience.
Speaker 2:So you've done power processing.
Speaker 1:I have not done power processing myself, but I have applied it to part of the composite case, which was part of my composite case, and it resolved the issue, uh, immediately oh, stunning.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right. So um with the l rundowns. Uh, are you a fan of them? And uh, do you really think that they can make someone who's able to just exteriorize at will?
Speaker 1:I've never seen anything and I've heard this from several people now, including yourself that the Ls provide exteriorization at will. I've never seen anything in the materials that reference that whatsoever. I don't know where that datum comes from. I will go as far as to say that I think it's a bit of a falsehood. That's not the purpose of the L's. Basically, the purpose of the L's and what LRH's intentions with the L's were was you've got this guy, he's an executive, he's got a case, you need him to be and act like an OT as soon as possible and there's no runway long enough that we can get this guy to go do his grades, do his meds, standard Dianetics, whatever, get up the OT levels, blah, blah, blah, blah. So LRH developed the L rundowns and L stands for lists, as in listing and nulling which basically bypass key portions of the case and just cut to the chase and make the guy an executive, an executive's executive, as an OT within a very short period of time. That was the original 10 of the elves.
Speaker 2:So would you recommend? Let's say somebody would like to become as powerful spiritually as soon as possible. Would you just say to him and he's done no Scientology before. Would you say to him, just go in there and do the elves.
Speaker 1:Well, the elves can be done anywhere on the bridge. Uh, I wouldn't tell somebody that if they were green on the street and you know they wanted to do Scientology, to go do the else. Because the further you are up the bridge, the more you're going to get the deeper. The deeper the draft, the more uh of an under it's going to take. You're going to get a lot more from it if you do the Ls after OT3. Then this comes straight from a Class 12. I was told that and I believe that firmly, that if you do them after OT3, you'll get a lot more out of it. I think they can do a lot for you prior to ot3, but you're just gonna. You know the breadth, the width, the dynamics of it are going to be a lot larger the more case you have off of your plate. But they can be done anywhere on the bridge.
Speaker 2:That's what lrh says in the materials okay, um, with remote viewing, uh, is that somebody? Somebody going exterior and viewing things? Or is it somebody using their Theta knowingness in order to find out details about things that are far away?
Speaker 1:Well, from my understanding and from what I've read on the subject on the internet and I can't validate whether the materials that I read on the internet were actually factual or not, or who wrote them and what they knew, whether they were talking about or not but remote viewing and going exterior are pretty much the same thing. That's my understanding of it. Uh, what was the rest of the question?
Speaker 2:well, my understanding of it was a little bit different, in that you're using some sort of psychic and knowingness ability to get answers about, like impressions about somewhere far away, like as in. You can go there exterior or you can just get impressions. I thought they were sort of two different things.
Speaker 1:Well, my understanding of it is that they took the Scientology materials and sort of riffed on them a little bit to get what it was that they were looking for in the physical universe, to where one of the problems you have when being exteriorized is they could be dyslexic, so there could be symbols that could be right in front of them, but they couldn't. Actually, those were parts. They could see that there were images on them and they were faces, but they couldn't tell you the significance of them. Um, and they were able to take the tech and get it to a point to where they could handle the dyslexia and they could go in and tell a guy, ok, what's in the safe on the page, and they could somehow extrapolate what the significance was on the page in the safe without reading. That's my understanding, which is a pretty good ability that they can do that.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure if that's really true or not. Um, I have my doubts, but if they can do that, okay then that's what they were doing. And beyond that there was, uh, there's a couple of books written about the subject where they took these guys who could exteriorize and they would use them in a program on Long Island to send people to Mars, and so what the OT, who was exterior or could exteriorize at will, would do is that he would put a focal point for them to drop these people through this portal or whatever it was that they were doing, so that they didn't end up and land into a big cliff wall. Okay, so they were using them as a focusing, pinpointing type of clairvoyant exteriorization terminal.
Speaker 1:So at Montauk they were working out ways to exteriorize and travel to mars yeah, well, they were using using the guys that could exteriorize to validate the point of where they were going to send people and kind of drop a pin, if you will, like we do on google street view, and say this is where they need to go, and they could put their attention in there, and somehow the machinery knew that where their intention was, that's where they needed to send them. So they were like a theta DPS. That's the way it was explained to me.
Speaker 2:It's very interesting. I've actually been listening to a bit about that Montauk project recently and it seems like they've gotten, uh, the memory wiping technology like in the 50s it was, you know, the sodium pentasol and the hypnotism and stuff. If it seems like now they've totally got to the point where it's totally science fiction, where it's just full-blown electronics and full-blown you know like can really wipe the memory, yeah it doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 1:I mean, for every year that goes by, the Black Ops programs advance roughly 75 years. I found 43, 42, 43. So 2017 minus 1943 times 75, that wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're getting help from the Markabians probably with this technology and stuff. Hey, so in the first interview you mentioned Lady Gaga selling out and I read the article about it and it was a bit like what the hell, what the hell, like her saying she spoke to some person that seemed to just appear and that she sold her soul to the dark side to get success or something. Yeah, what the hell, what the hell, jonathan, what the hell? I mean you read that article and you're like what, but what I mean? I don't understand it. I mean like I understand it. I mean like I understand it, if some rich rothschild guy walked over to him goes, hey, lady gaga, blah, blah, blah you, you become work for us and be the singer. But it didn't seem to be like that. The way she she spoke about how she sold her soul, it seemed to be a supernatural experience where this being just appeared. It was like a ghost or something like what, what? What's your understanding of this?
Speaker 1:well, I mean, I all I could do is hypothesize on it. I mean, it could be entirely her own case. Um, she seems like a very intelligent person and she's very creative and capable and has a lot of horsepower, but she's a fucking mess. I mean, we watched a um I don't think it was like a two-hour show. It was behind the scenes with her and her handlers and all that. She's, she's, she's a mess, she's a mess and she's also very creative and capable at the same same time. So it's very possible that something like that did happen. But, like LRH says, he says God help anybody who becomes famous, because you just attract all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, these celebrities are just. Yeah, they're an absolute mess. But do you think, as Satan visited her?
Speaker 1:It wouldn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Speaker 2:So hold on a second. I understand this because I was listening to stuff with Jordan Maxwell. Search it on Google or YouTube Great interview right, you've got to listen to this. It's Jordan Maxwell talking with David Icke for Project Camelot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they talk about the forces of good and evil and good angels and bad angels. You know, basically just good Thetans and bad Thetans or good aliens and bad Thetans. It's totally true, it's totally out there. The Markabians are probably the bad aliens or bad angels or whatever, and they were talking about, like it makes sense that these things could be visiting us and communicating with someone like Lady Gaga and it can be a demon or whatever a bad angel, a bad alien and could be negotiating with them. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean, you know, the ability to have the king's ear is a big deal, because when you've got somebody that speaks to hundreds of millions of people, like somebody like Lady Gaga or John Lennon, MLK, whatever you are really controlling a large group of people, and that's very, very key and important to those who have the ability to talk into the king's ear. I think you know, if there's one thing that Scientology has taught me, is that you really shouldn't be surprised about anything, and things aren't always what they seem. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And look up this article people listening this Lady Gaga thing because it's just like what the hell it really is. Like what it's just like what the hell it really is. Like what it's just it is quite odd.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, I could take her in session and, you know, straighten her out, probably with I don't know five, eight intensives or something like that, but I would never be able to get my foot in the door because of the handlers and stuff like that, because there's money in keeping her screwed up. I mean, that's, that's, that's the the whole thing behind it. The more screwed up she is, the more money they make, because that's sort of what she's peddling, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:But she's really a very creative, powerful force yeah, there are a lot of other people out there as well that are the same way, who are artists which is probably getting used to promote, uh, homosexuality.
Speaker 2:Um, all right, we're on a home stretch, we're nearly there. Okay, all right. Um okay, do you know?
Speaker 1:john watson, the internet guy I've spoken to him on facebook numerous times, both private message and just in comments.
Speaker 2:What do you think of him? Is he an Osa thing or a troll, or what?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I mean he's never. I've never seen him in any conversation that I've had with him. I've never seen him be anything but nice. But nice and, you know, sometimes a little inexplicable in some of his replies, but I've never seen him tear anybody down in anything that I've seen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I interviewed him and he seemed nice and stuff, but it's just the way how he types on the internet is just crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I admit it's unusual's unusual, but that's you know it.
Speaker 2:Just just just because he uses unusual grammar doesn't make him make him good or bad, it's just unusual grammar, that's all it is okay, but there is a possibility it could be some osu troll that goes out there into groups and writes comments and and stuff that's just looks crazy. So then discredits the whole indie movement.
Speaker 1:Sure, so could I. I mean, you know, I don't have any data that says that, that's, I haven't seen anything that would indicate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so this course you got. You mentioned it before. What's a court? Again, when you've like a church repair, like when you left the church and you go to the independent movement, what's it called?
Speaker 1:a really good uh, basically getting out of or leaving the church. Um, it's hard to find but you know some monitors out there do have it. I used to have a copy of it. I don't anymore. I don't know where it went. Uh, any good cs could develop one and that would be a really good start to handle any of the bypass charges that a person would have. Other than that, do a CIP interview and ask them questions about the church and their experiences in it and then just write a regular life repair program for them to handle the rudiments on leaving church and their family and friends, and things like that would do the same thing.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it would be called a COS repair list.
Speaker 1:Yeah, leaving the church's Scientology repair list.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I mean, obviously I'll have to do that one day. That sounds like it would be good. You know, you get rid of the charge of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it should be done for everybody.
Speaker 2:All right, here's a big question who controls the Scientology church, like who is CST exactly and who runs it? I think it should be done for everybody. All right, here's a big question. Who controls the Scientology Church, like who is CST exactly and who runs it? Is David Miscavige just a puppet.
Speaker 1:Well, I could tell you what I think. I mean I can't give you any names or anything like that From people that I've talked to, numerous people that I've talked to, I've had several people tell me that there is not one Scientologist on the board of directors for CST. Not one. None of them are Scientologists. David Miscavige is not a Scientologist. Whoa, that's a big statement. He's not. He's not a scientologist. I mean, that's the it's. It's really not a big statement, because if he was a scientologist, the church wouldn't be in the condition that it's in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but for a church member it's big. I mean well, actually. Well, here's the confusion thing is, when I looked at him I was like, yeah, okay, so he's an sp look at all the information and stuff but he's an sp that actually believes in scientology. But what you're saying is he's not even a sio. He's an SP that actually believes in Scientology, but what you're saying is that he's not even a SCIO he's just an SP.
Speaker 1:No, no, he's never done the OT levels and thinks they're a bunch of hooey.
Speaker 2:How do you know that?
Speaker 1:I've talked to people that have first hand.
Speaker 2:No way. What does he say?
Speaker 1:It's a bunch of bullshit. He doesn't believe any of it. Wow, that's because he's so cut off from everything.
Speaker 2:So you've spoken to former Sea Org people who were close to Dave Miscavige and the insider is that he's not even a believer at all. No, not at all. No, and he actually would mention that sometimes to the other execs I think he would only to only to.
Speaker 1:You know his, his closest confidants, sort of a thing. And you know the guy's got issues, big issues, and anybody that has issues like he's got he isn't going to see any value in the ot levels. I mean, he's so cut off from the whole thing, it's from the subject of scientology. He can't even see his nose despite his face.
Speaker 2:So he's just literally the situation he's just a power hungry sp, like all the ones that run corporations and governments and all this sort of stuff, and he's just in control of scientology he is now.
Speaker 1:At some point in the past he probably was was on the right path. But I mean, when the guy commits overt after overt overt motor vehicle, kicks in justification service facsimiles, he's got a composite case. It might, it might not even be the same phaeton that was originally david miscavige. It wouldn't surprise yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the whole, the whole, the whole body takeover scenario wouldn't surprise me yeah, I mean his own dad said it's not my, so yeah when did he say the change happened, yeah. When did he say the change happened?
Speaker 1:I don't recall. I didn't read the book, my wife did, but I mean, you know, I've seen enough of it. It's just, you know, like Ellery says, for anything to persist there's a lie behind it. And if David Miscavige was the problem to the situation, there are enough people now that know that that who is what he is. If he was the problem to the situation, it would have resolved like being jail right now. He's not the problem.
Speaker 2:There are other other organizations and other people protecting him, the fbi included yeah, he's just a puppet, you reckon, or is he's a puppet, but he's also a pretty damn powerful puppet as well.
Speaker 1:Well, he's given enough leash and they know he's enough of a pit bull that he can be the facade of the whole thing, while it's just like the American government and the president. The president is supposedly. The buck stops with the president. No, he doesn't. He doesn't even have a remotely high enough clearance to know what's really going on. There have been so many people that have come forward and said, yeah, he's got like a third tier clearance out of 20 because yeah, that's just that's the deal. So it's the same deal with miss cabbage. He's being run around and he doesn't even know it well, who's making these changes to the the tech like?
Speaker 2:who are the people? Is it Shelley Miscavige or whatever that's actually working, looking through the old versions of tech and releasing JT2 and saying we went through here and we edited it. Who are these people who are doing that?
Speaker 1:I don't have any data on that. I really don't know. All I can say is it just keeps getting altered and changed and deleted and tech volumes pulled out of course rooms and they're rewriting the tech volumes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, but nobody can use them and eventually the tech volumes will never be put back in the course rooms again and that way they've totally eliminated anybody, causing a problem. In the future, 50 years down the road, Nobody will even know what a tech volume is. Is because anybody that did would be dead. That wouldn't surprise me. I mean, that's the way they've been doing it for the last 30 years do you think they're probably sciento?
Speaker 2:um, they're probably non-scientologist lawyers or something that are keen on getting the copyrights released again, and so they're. They're going through the materials and going oh, we'll put a picture here and we'll change this paragraph here, or something well, that's the way.
Speaker 1:that's the way they've done it. And the thing is is that the only thing that's copyrightable is the changes that they've made, the things they've added, and, and they just expect people to believe that and they get a pass on it and then they go ahead and do it. I mean, that's the way it's been done for the last 30 years. So I think they'll continue to do that and they'll just keep devolving it and altering it and altering it and, before it's too long, it dies. It isn't already?
Speaker 2:I mean a lot of things that aren't what do you think of these NASA machines that they've got for the superpower rundown at Flag? Hold on it, cut out it cut out. Can you say that again? Oh man, hold on a second, hold on a second. Maybe I asked a bad question.
Speaker 1:Okay, start again okay, what I said was the superpower program at flag is basically an implant station yes, no, yes, this is this is the data I like.
Speaker 2:All right come, all right. This is pretty much. This is the second last question, so let let's go into this. All right, explain that Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, the superpower, the way they've got it mocked up. If it was superpower, why in the world would you be addressing bodies? I mean, it's a simple, a simple question is that, why would you be addressing bodies?
Speaker 2:it cut us off no, no, no, I did that. I did that because I wanted to make sure. I wanted to make sure the audio is good so you can turn yours off. I can't see your. Your video image was screwed up before I even turned it off, anyway, so, okay, yeah, yeah. So have you read the superpower policies or anything? All the bulletins.
Speaker 1:Well, I know enough about it from what they said in the promo materials. They have all of these smells and they have a gyroscope that they put you on and there are all of these physical sensation things that they're trying to improve. Now, that's the complete opposite of the bridge. You're not trying to put the guy in his body so that he can he can distinguish french lavender from romanian lavender. That's not superpower. I mean, you know, come on, this is that's what. That's what they've done is they've turned it into an implant.
Speaker 2:But where does anybody Where's the LRH on this, though? Where's the writing that says that there's supposed to be NASA technology machines?
Speaker 1:Well, there isn't any. That's the whole thing, and they can get away with it.
Speaker 2:They can just get away with releasing it in the church and auditors are like, oh, where are like, oh, it's just amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, it's added inapplicable data as an out point, because they added all of this stuff and omitted LRH's original superpower, which has absolutely nothing to do with the body Nothing. You can get it on the Internet in a pdf. I have it. I know people that have delivered it. I know people that have received it. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with the body. This is all stuff that they they created because basically what they were going after was the money first, and anybody that could come up with the money was a threat, and anybody that had that money would be driven into their body through all of the stuff that they're doing that basically implants them into their body even more. So basically people are paying to get screwed up. That's the long and the short of it.
Speaker 2:Hold on a second. So you're, what are you saying? So you're saying that they something to do with this superpower thing, has something to do with picking rich Scientologists?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the whole thing about Scientology Scientology, the Church of Scientology, the corporate entity has become the able-being flypaper. Because what's happened is that anybody that's attracted to the subject of Scientology immediately becomes a mark for the establishment that wants to disable people who are really able and are reaching for the subject of Scientology. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, the subject of scientology. Does that make sense? Yeah, okay. So you get some guy. He's a really, really successful, uh, chiropractor and he's got you know 25 locations and he's got chiropractors working under him and all this stuff making money hand over fist, and he starts reaching for scientology. Well, first, they're going to bleed him dry and then, second, they're going to spin him in, because the last thing they want is anybody reaching for scientology and having any ability. So it's flypaper they're. They're trying to catch the whales because they're the able people. So they take their money, pat them on the back and say good job, and then screw them up okay, okay, like as in you keep them.
Speaker 2:You keep them as your, your, your whale, you keep them as your pet, like your sheep or whatever yeah, that's right, they take it.
Speaker 1:They take the uh killer whale out of the ocean and they put them into a swimming pool in central florida and say this is your new home yes and um.
Speaker 2:So. So I heard from, I think, some ron someone who was involved with ron's org, or something, that it has some sort of hidden mind control device, uh, that installs, or something that these machines install, or whatever. Do you know anything about that?
Speaker 1:I don't, but it wouldn't surprise me. I mean, I've known for years, just from an OT standpoint, that that place was the kiss of death. I mean, like Ellery, there's a reference in from the mid-50s of the lecture. He says the quickest way to implant somebody and pull people in, to implant them, is to give them, you know, buildings of gold and white that they can stand in awe of, because it it attracts the thetans. It's oh, it's so beautiful, oh gosh, I need to be a part of this. Every, every really good implant station that's ever been looked like those places. I mean, they're built to look like the places on the track. Yeah, yeah, so they're doing the same thing lrh did with the books, because lrh used to put images on the front of the original print books that restimulated people to get them to go. There's something about that book I should read that. Hmm.
Speaker 1:I can't quite put my finger on it. You know, like the R6, God is on the front of Fundamentals, of Thought, you know that sort of thing. Well, they're doing the same thing the church is by creating these places that are very similar to places on the track that look like the Catholic Church. Isn't that ironic?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know they've got all this gold, filigree and everything. I mean it's so tracky, it's not even funny, because they're just trying to suck people in and do harm to them. They just don't know that.
Speaker 2:Well, look if the evidence which really is indicating that it got taken over by the CIA or something right then, now they've got this group right where they then shut down the DIV-6, so it doesn't grow any bigger Now, this great group that they can do experiments with with this mind, control stuff like as in. Well, they've got that Montauk thing and they've probably got other bases as well where they're actually abducting people. But now they've got this great community of people, these scientologists, these american scientologists, where they're like great, now we can develop these machines and see how they're going and stuff. And do you think something like that? Or is this just bullshit?
Speaker 1:well, I could either confirm or deny any of that. It wouldn't surprise me, but I doubt it. I think that that Scientology is corporate. Scientology is basically sort of a money laundering facility for one of the organ, you know, one of the organizations that's running. It's become basically a real estate acquisition firm and it I mean they don't even make class eights, they don't make classics, is they're not making class fours anymore. They don't have tech volumes in the course rooms, uh, you know, they they in name alone more than anything, and I think that that that's what it's become is it's more more of a money laundering, uh, real estate acquisition firm than anything else. That's it.
Speaker 1:I think that the technology that they have outside of the church, that they stole from church in the early 70s, I think they've far surpassed it with something a lot more nefarious by now. By now, uh, imbuing it with the, the electronic advances that they have or were given by, you know, another race, another society somewhere off world, that sort of a thing. Based off of the stories that I've heard. I've never seen this stuff myself, but my own knowingness tells me that they've they've far gone, far beyond anything that we have in Scientology as far as some of the things that the individuals that they have can do, and that just goes to show you that you can have an OT and he doesn't have to be nice, which is kind of a scary thought.
Speaker 2:So you really do believe that superpower is an implant station sort of, and it literally is something that you go into, that mind controls you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean, the first guy to do superpower, the first public to do superpower, was Matt Fischbeck, and the story behind him and his family was that on Black Friday back in the late 80s, when the stock market crashed, they happened to be in a big short position and they made millions upon millions of dollars in that short position and they became the darlings David Miscavige's darlings. For years I was on course with Matt and his sister at FLAG in 88 when they were on the briefing for us and after Matt did superpower and I believe his sister did superpower too Kathy, I think there might have been one or two others, I'm not sure, don't quote me on that. It might have been one or two others, I'm not sure, don't quote me on that. But now they're broken in debt to the IRS to over $10 million and have literally nothing to their names after doing Superpower. You tell me what happened.
Speaker 2:Now hold on a second. What year did they do Superpower.
Speaker 1:Matt did Superpower probably 10 years ago. So he did a trial version of it at flag or something he was the first public to receive superpower because they had donated so much of their wealth to the church.
Speaker 2:Well, and now they owe the irs and they're flat ass broke okay and did, but did he do the whole nasa machine thing or did he did it, do the action? Yeah, he did he? Did he do the whole NASA machine thing, or did he do?
Speaker 1:the actual yeah, he did the whole gamut of everything that they had turned their so-called superpower into, which was not LRH.
Speaker 2:So after that they then got into trouble with the IRS.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can Google it, Matt and Kathy Fishbeck. Okay, it's on the Internet for everybody to see through the IRS and their downfall, because they gave the church all of their money and then, when they didn't have any more money, the church kicked them to the curb.
Speaker 2:Interesting. So what do you think that says about the IRS?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you know, when you've got a former commissioner from the IRS who was part of CST, I think it speaks for itself.
Speaker 2:Meaning that the IRS want to milk rich Scientologists as well.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that thes either are part owners in, or entire owners in, or the irs, whoever owns? I mean, we know who owns the irs. It's pretty obvious that the wealthy, the wealthy families on the planet, you're still there.
Speaker 2:I can't hear it's cut out. Sorry, can you say that it cut out?
Speaker 1:can you hear me now? Yeah, say it again so what I was saying is is that the federal reserve, the irs, all of that, that that whole cabal, are the ones that are, you know, calling the shots for the what is now left of the church of scientology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they're like the CST board of directors or they're connected with them or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're the ones that are above CST. The board of directors of CST are just. They're the ones that take the marching orders. That's all that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, interesting, very interesting. All all right, thanks for that. That was great. I mean, I've just got one really quick. Last one, okay, why is it clear? Because I, when you go clear and I've heard people say it when they go proper clear and stuff seems really great, like they say that there's just this clearness and this calmness and it's not all noise and trafficking stuff in their mind. How long does that state last for, and does it last forever?
Speaker 1:A person can lose their state of clear. I mean clear is a really good start, but it isn't necessarily entirely stable, because once a person goes clear, you're sort of opening Pandora's box and that's why, from clear to OT3, you're in an interference zone, because it's a really good start, but it's a really good start to Pandora's box and you need to get from clear to OT3 as quickly as possible, because the materials that are on OT2 and OT3 are part and parcel to what makes a person not clear. So you're at risk. So that's why LRH said that it's basically a very dicey area and that a person is at risk until they complete OT3.
Speaker 1:Then you're at risk from something else beyond that, because it's a progressive series of states and as you peel one layer of the onion, now you have another layer of the onion to peel while your eyes are watering. And you peel that layer of the onion to peel while your eyes are watering. And you peel that layer of the onion, now your eyes are watering more, but you're getting the onion peeled. And that's just how it is, because you're opening your newer vistas, a bigger and larger charge of the composite case and all of that. But you know you, you can't go doing the ot levels without going clear first. So it's it's. It's a big deal to go clear, but it's also a big deal that that, once you get done with clear, that you get through ot3 as quickly as possible and not dawdle around okay.
Speaker 2:Well then, what if you're one of these people, though, that go clear and they're feeling a million times better and they um, maybe it's the lifestyle they're living, or whatever. They're not running into any problems and they feel real great, and it's hard to sell them more scientology because they're like, hey, I'm doing real great well, there are those people that do that.
Speaker 1:There are people that do the entire bridge and finish next caliber and do some of the cbr bridge and then all of a sudden they just stop and they don't do anything else for the rest of their lives. It happens, but that's that and that's. Beings do funny things and it's sort of inexplicable, but it's their choice and if they decide to do that they don't want to do anymore, there may be causes for it and I could, you know, pontificate on it for an hour, probably as to why that is. But, like lrh says, a being is always trying to be right, and that's. You have to look at it for what it is. And they're saying they feel good and they don't need any more auditing. Well, that that's them being right. Acknowledge it and let them do what they want to do.
Speaker 2:You can't force a being to go ot yeah, but also it's, it's I think it's a sign that they don't realize it. Yeah, it's like you're going good, but you have to evolve. You have to keep on updating your computer and blah, blah, blah, otherwise time will go on and this universe. You have to keep on evolving and improving. If you stop that, you're just going to fall down the toilet eventually.
Speaker 1:Right, but you can lead a horse to of water but you can't make them drink. And the ot levels are specifically about self-determinism. And then ultimately, at some point, you're going to have to audit out the auditing and it's my personal opinion that a lot of these people that go clear and then don't do anything else need to have their auditing audited out because they feel other determined and that's why they stop.
Speaker 2:That's just my, my hypothesis ah, interesting, yeah, but, but I personally, yeah, but also I do personally believe that they do genuinely feel a million times better and just feel good and just want to live their life for a while sure.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, it's all relative, you know if, if they don't know what, what you know, they see clear and they experience and they're like, wow, this is great. Well, relative to what the life they were living before, that OK, I get it, but they don't know what they don't know and that there is a lot more to it that they're not aware of. It's just that's, that's the best they've ever felt. So if it isn't broke, don't fix it, and that's where they stay. I mean, they're a dime, a dozen, I don't know how many, probably over 100 people I've met like that and they never progressed any further because they just, you know, no, I'm good. Clint Eastwood, for example, george Brett of the Kansas City Royals. Two examples Went clear in Scientology. Big secret Never went clear in scientology big secret never came out of
Speaker 2:the closet never did another thing in scientology? Not a thing. Yeah, wow, so clint eastwood went clear yeah, wow, all right. So that's pretty much it, but are you willing to do one last funky thing?
Speaker 1:what's that? Testing, exteriorization well, I don't know that I could do it tonight because I pulled a uh pulled my my neck out the other day after going to the chiropractor. I think I got improperly adjusted and I've had a doozy of a right side headache until I can go see the chiropractor on monday. So I'm kind of reluctant to do that because, uh, I've got a fairly strong somatic in the right side of my back and right head going on.
Speaker 2:So I don't know. So somatics pull you back into the body, don't they?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you know it kind of sticks you to the body and if I could go to the chiropractor to get it straightened out, I would, but it's Thanksgiving here so they were closed. It happened on Thursday afternoon. I went to the chiropractor Wednesday and they are closed until Monday, so I would probably let you down on that. I don't think that I could do it properly. My body rudiments are sort of out, so I would have to decline.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, otherwise I would somatics are like a little alarm clock going off waking you up, something like that I think I've heard other people talk about it, yeah, and I looked.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know I haven't gone in session on it, but I've looked at it from an OT perspective and it's a body thing. It's not a knots thing or anything like that. It's just something is out of alignment and I pulled it out of alignment by accident.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's good to to hear, because I know that the Scientology haters will be like see, look he's done all this Scientology and look he doesn't think Scientology can handle his neck thing. Ha ha, scientology's crap.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, I mean, like Ellery says, he says there's no replacement for a good medical doctor, and that's the truth. I mean, you know there's body things that have to be handled. So you know, I don't know what else to say, but that's the deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and some people they might be doing a lot of their bridge and they might be getting exposed every day to something like some chemical that's unnatural they're not even aware of. Then they're not, they're not feeling that good and they've still got some sort of somatics and they're they're thinking, oh, scientology isn't that good. I think you're my somatic. My mind's still crazy and that's why I have this somatic and it's like, no, it's not a mind thing, it's like, you know, there's like chemicals in your carpet that you're breathing in like from your fresh new carpet that you got installed in your carpet, that you're breathing in like from your fresh new carpet that you got installed in your house. And it could be. It's unnatural, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, the body is a liability, it is an impedance to a thetan and it is unnatural to a thetan and it holds a thetan back. It holds a being back and there's an agreement there that they work together mutually. But sometimes they don't work so well together mutually because they are exact opposites of each other. So shit happens and you know, scientology can solve a lot of things. But bodies do tend to wear out and break down and they need to be adjusted and they need to be serviced and they need to be taken care of as they break down and as the body gets older and, ot or not, the body is going to wear out, just like a car does. You can be arnold schwarzenegger and be in the best health you've ever been and been working out and benching 300 pounds, but if your car doesn't work, your car doesn't work and you're not going to get to the gym on time. Yeah, that's it, yep all right.
Speaker 2:So if people want to uh go to your mission, um, do they search your name in google, or will you even come up in google?
Speaker 1:yeah, we, we will. I mean, you know we. We don't have it keyworded out or anything like that, but it's just advanced. Or get the great plains dot uh, org, not dot com, because we're not commercial, we're an organization. Uh, we're based in kansas city, missouri, and we travel all over the country and we can even come to your country if need be and we want to help people get up the bridge and train them. We do audit all the way up to l12. We have a class 8cs two of them and we can deliver pretty much the entire bridge on both sides okay, okay, and does dot org mean a non-for-profit over pretty much the entire bridge on both sides.
Speaker 2:Okay, we're not biased. Okay, and does org mean?
Speaker 1:a non-for-profit. It just means that you're an organization. I mean we're not really doing it for profit. If I were to say that I profited off of any of the auditing cycles that I've done in the last four years in the field, that would be a lie. I have not profited off of those because all we've done is pay our expenses for the travel holding our position and delivering the services. We have got nothing to show for anything that we've done. It's just holding our position because that's all we can do, because we charge, we charge. You know what we consider decent rates to keep the lights on. But we're not profiting, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Okay, but whenever you see websites at org, should you automatically think that that's a non-for-profit organization, or is that false?
Speaker 1:I don't think there's anything legal that says it. It's just sort of an understood designation that it's an organization. You don't have to have any legal irs paperwork that says you're a non-profit, so it's it's more of a designator than it is a legal thing so so, but some business like mcdonald's, could they make theirs mcdonald'sorg, or would that be totally inappropriate?
Speaker 1:uh well, the usual rule of thumb is, when you're buying urls from a domain company, is to buy up as many of them as you can so that nobody can swoop in and make it. You know mcdonald'sorg instead of mcdonald'scom, so most companies buy up as many of them as they can, like mcdonald'sus or mcdonald'sbiz. That's just's sort of a a given that companies will do that and in our situation, if, if uh, the church wanted to, you know they could come in and swoop in and buy advanced organization dot com. Uh, ao dash gpcom. But that's why I bought it, even though I'm not using it, so that they can't.
Speaker 2:Cool, all right, great Thanks for speaking to me. With all these interviews and stuff, it's really good. I mean, this one went over the two-and-a-half-hour mark, but we had to finish it off and at least it didn't go too far over. It's probably almost about three hours, but anyway, thanks for talking to me, john, you're welcome.
Speaker 1:All right, see you, bye, thanks, bye-bye.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, I hope you liked that interview with Jonathan Burke. I just checked that joke and I'm going to read it out again with my spelling corrections, because I think it makes sense, because I think they might have not edited this joke, so in the joke book they must have forgotten to edit one of the jokes. So this is what I think the joke's supposed to say. It's supposed to say a Scientologist with one ear went into a bar. Do you want a beer? Asked the bartender, the Scientologist I've got one ear. I think that's the lame, crappy joke that it's supposed to be, as opposed to what it says, which is A Scientologist with one ear want into a bar. Do you want a beer? Asked the Scientologist, the Scientologist I've got one ear. That's got to be a spelling mistake. Wow, that was exciting. Anyway, I hope you liked that interview. I liked it.
Speaker 2:We're going to end off, end off the podcast, but there's an LRH quote before. This is the quote the first step of handling anything is gaining an ability to face it and that's from Scientology, a new slant on life. I think that's very important. The first step of handling anything is gaining an ability to face it. Some people can't face things they can. Sorry, but some people can't handle things because they can't face them. They shy away from them, maybe their boss or something. They're really scared of their boss and they don't have an ability to face their boss, or they don't have the ability to face their parents or something and they're just like ugh, and so they can't handle their parents like as in, they can't improve the situation with their parents or their boss or something, because they can't face it and they can't communicate and they freak out. And so you've got to face it. And this is where um auditing helps, because it helps give you confidence and stuff to face things, especially, I feel like objective auditing, because it gets you to face the universe and confront it. Um, but a big factor in this is the fact that you have to harden up. I know it doesn't feel good, but you have to face it. I notice this with people who are.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you can have a bit of a rough time when you're doing Scientology auditing because it's can be tough doing some certain actions and some people would try and avoid going in session and they couldn't face it, and I was kind of surprised at that because I was like, well, you know, this is tough or whatever. But I never had the attitude of actually trying to avoid auditing. I was like, no, I've got to go in there and handle this and face it. You know, and other people, some people who were scared or whatever, I don't know, they had a problem with facing it and so they would sort of run away and it's just like, no, that's really sick, that's really perverted. You've got to go in there and you've got to confront whatever you can't handle.
Speaker 2:And yes, of course it doesn't feel good, like, yes, of course it's tough, you know. Yes, of course, talking to your boss or whatever, if you're having a problem with your boss or something, isn't going to be easy, but you have to do it. You have to harden up, you know, don't worry about fancy philosophy or ordering all this sort of stuff, but just at the end of the day, if you've got a problem that you've got to handle, you and and you're not going to enjoy it, you have to sit there, realize it's going to be tough, you know, harden up and just go and do it, you know, and then you'll find it gets easier and easier and easier. In fact, there's something I noticed about doing things, where the first time's always really hard, but then after that it's a lot easier, then after that it's a lot easier, then after that it's almost automatic and it's really easy. And that's why some people they look at other people who have achieved success and they're like, wow, how did he do all that? I tried to do that once and it was so hard and it's just like, yeah, first push is really hard, but once it starts rolling it's a lot easier.
Speaker 2:So you have to harden up in your life, just in general. You have to be tough and harden up. Like what does LH say? He says only the lions survive or something, and even they have a hard time surviving. So it's like you have to just grit your teeth and harden up and it's just like, yeah, you're not going to feel good, but just experience it.
Speaker 2:Go and do it and be like, oh wow, this is interesting. I feel horrible right now. What an interesting experience. Have that attitude to it. Have that detached attitude to it. Don't be like I feel horrible, I've got to not do this, and then run away from your problem. Enjoy the experience of it and just go.
Speaker 2:Whoa, this is wild. Realize that it's not really you. It's a bad part of your mind that's making you feel bad about handling it and just go. Whoa, appreciate it. Go, wow, this is like being in a video game with surround sound and it's like tapped into my body and I'm actually full on feeling emotions and everything. Whoa, what an experience. I feel horrible right now, like that's interesting, and one day they'll invent computer games that are so good that literally you'll be able to do that where you go into battle and you'll actually be able to feel the emotions and everything. It'll be wild, it'll be a full-on matrix. And what are you going to do then? When you're playing a video game, you're going to go oh no, I didn't like that feeling. I'm not going to feel it. Don't worry, it's not you, it's just an experience you're having. Anyway, so the first step of handling anything is gaining an ability to face it.
Speaker 2:So that's it for the podcast. It's time for you to climb back out of this rabbit hole, out of this interesting Scientology world. If you have any good Scientology related news, success stories or jokes, then send them to andynulch at hotmailcom and make sure you edit those jokes. No spelling mistakes. Thanks for listening. I've been your host, andy Nulch, the Space Cowboy you have been listening to the Indie Scientology podcast and until next time, keep learning and get up that bridge © transcriptF-WATCH TV 2021. Thank you.