Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
Did you know Scientology the Subject and The Church of Scientology are two completely different things? Find out why and what the difference is and how it can help you. Topics range from Independent Scientology, solving life's problems, past lives, secret government, metaphysical, Para-Scientology, UFOS/UAPS, ghost hunting, spirituality, and a lot more! Come check us out!
Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE10EP32 - Independent Scientology and Change
What if the very way you think about freedom is keeping you trapped? In this mind-expanding episode, we explore one of the most profound philosophical shifts in modern thinking: the difference between "freedom from" and "freedom to."
Our journey begins with a startling observation from L. Ron Hubbard about how our concept of freedom fundamentally changed during the Roosevelt era, creating what he called "a perfect trap." When we're constantly trying to escape something—poverty, pain, difficult relationships—that very thing persists in our consciousness through our resistance to it. This explains why lottery winners often return to poverty and why we find ourselves repeating painful patterns despite our best efforts to avoid them.
Through fascinating explorations of Scientology's axioms on change and alter-is-ness, we unpack how we create our reality through continuous alteration and denial. Quentin shares a powerful personal story of breaking free from a pattern of abusive relationships through auditing, demonstrating how identifying hidden postulates can release persistent unwanted conditions.
The episode features two practical processing exercises that listeners can use to transform their relationship with change. These exercises reveal how our attempts to change ourselves and others shape our experiences in ways we rarely recognize. The most liberating insight? As spiritual beings, we are the constant in our lives—everything else may change, but our essential nature remains.
Ready to shift from the trap of "freedom from" to the creative power of "freedom to"? This episode provides the philosophical foundation and practical tools to transform how you approach change forever. Get your auditing, move up the bridge, and become cause over change rather than its effect.
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Hi and welcome to another AOGP Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. This is season 10, episode 32. I'm here with Quentin Stroud and Arthur Mudakis and this is going to be sort of a extension of our last episode on games. We're going to talk about change and freedom from and freedom to. Quentin's already snickering this was my idea, but he's really psyched about this. So we're going to talk about change, alter business, freedom from and freedom to Quentin would you like to jump into the deep end of the pool?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I snickered because, as we were preparing for this podcast, I was getting so many wins, like so many gains, just reading some LRH material and just really understanding what is actually happening in this world. And I'm talking about, you know, macrocosmically and microcosmically, what is going on. And when we talk about change, we're talking about alteration, we're talking about alter-is-ness is how we talk about in Scientology and obviously, in order to survive, in order to persist on planet Earth, and the whole bit, that change must occur. Things got to go. You know, start change, stop. You start life, life goes through all these changes. You grow up, you get older, you know, whatever, whatever, and then you stop. Apparently, right, the appearance is that you stop.
Speaker 2:The idea here is that when we're focusing in on change, we're really trying to understand what is going on in life. Right, because it's all that, from the cradle to the grave, it's all changing, it's all changes, it's all alterations that are happening around us, moment by moment, day by day, time by time, as it were, and all of these things are happening. And so, really, the reason why I get so excited about this conversation is because we're talking about life in total, from the cradle to the grave, life in total from the cradle to the grave, from the experiences to experiences, and we're going to really kind of put this in a big pretty package for you that are listening and you could understand what the is going on in your life. That's why I want to open this up.
Speaker 1:And that starts out with freedom from and freedom to.
Speaker 1:Lrh observed that over time, there was a shift basically in the meaning of freedom, particularly during Roosevelt's era, when the concept changed to freedom from.
Speaker 1:Endless desire for freedom from is a perfect trap. It's fear of all things, and he emphasized that freedom from is only beneficial when there's a place to be free to. In other words, focusing solely on escaping or avoiding something doesn't lead to true freedom, which is change. So he suggested that real freedom exists basically among barriers and that a balance between freedom and barriers is crucial for happiness. He viewed life as a game consisting of freedoms, barriers and purposes, where the relationship which is games between these elements needs to be in harmony. So basically, he's saying freedom from is showing progressive steps to move anyone towards the state, freedom from is showing progressive steps to move anyone towards the state, and he also basically emphasized the importance of freedom too as well, often referring to conjunction with liberty or outspokenness. So basically, true freedom, according to Ron, is about having the ability to choose and act, not just about escaping from something, which is part of change. Hmm, yes.
Speaker 3:So a massive amount of confront.
Speaker 2:Yeah basically Understanding that if you're just having this escapism kind of viewpoint which I think I love how you articulated that if you have this escapism kind of viewpoint, then you're never really free from the thing because you're constantly trying to escape it. You're constantly trying to get I don't want to live like this, I don't want to be here, I don't want to do that and you're constantly trying to get out or get away from, even when seemingly you're already out of it. Have you ever had the experience where it's like it could have been an argument that you had with somebody in your life or whatever, whatever? And even though that thing has gone on and it's passed, and it's 20 years ago, and yet you're still holding on to that experience and trying to get away from that person or that thing or that experience. It's like, ah, I don't want to deal with that, I don't want to deal with they miss, I don't want to deal with their confusion, I don't want to deal with their problems. And it's like, well, hold on a second. That was 20 years ago, like, could that have been resolved by now? Could that have been a non-thing anymore?
Speaker 2:And yet we're constantly trying to escape that thing because you're not really free of it, you see. And so this is really good, because when you're getting freedom from this idea of freedom from, you're really trying to get away from the thing which is persisting. Get this which is persisting in your universe, which is persisting in your universe, in your mind, in your awareness, in your consciousness. It is persisting there and so you're constantly trying to get away from it. Let me say this I've seen this happen, even when it relates to money and poverty. Right that? Have you ever seen somebody who might've won the lottery or got some money coming in or whatever, and they blow right through it? Right, because they're trying to get away from this idea of poverty, they're trying to get away from lack and limitation, and yet they keep trying to, like, put themselves back in it because it's actually persistent, right, you see?
Speaker 2:and so it's not just.
Speaker 1:It's not just one dimensional but, and why is it persistent?
Speaker 2:well that, because it's something that they're holding on to and that they haven't been able to fully get freedom from and the and freedom to something, which is where the change comes in. How do you change your life? How do you change your experience? How you change your life. How do you change your experience? How do you change your reality? How do you change your status in life? How do you change your position in life? These things are what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 1:All right, you're dealing with an alter isness on top of an alter isness on top of an alter isness.
Speaker 3:Jeez, yeah, yeah, that's a lot of incompletion there.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it kind of reminds me of the Black Panther phenomena or the Black Panther effect, where you know you could tiptoe around it, you can pretend it's not there, you could submit to it, and I love the final outcome You've got to attack it. You've got to attack it. You've got to confront it Because at least with confronting it, at least you have an as-is-ness, even if it's a painful as-is-ness.
Speaker 1:At least you know what you're dealing with which is really interesting, quentin, you had some axioms that you thought parallel this whole thing 100%.
Speaker 2:So for me, whenever going through something and this might help those of you who are listening whenever going through something, I like to go to the axioms, okay, the 57 axioms of Scientology. I like to go to the axioms because they to me, for me, it makes total sense how he flowed them out and how life actually corresponds or kind of, is laid out using the axioms. And so when we started talking about change, I was like, okay, well, where does change happen in our lives? What is change really about? So I put up a couple of axioms that you can look into about. So I put up a couple of axioms that you can look into. We don't have to go through all of them, but some.
Speaker 2:That really stood out was axiom 13 and 14, which talks about the cycle of action right, which is create, survive or persist and then destroy. And he says survival is accomplished by alter is-ness and not is-ness, by which is gained the persistency known as time. So we survive in this life by alter is-ness and not is-ness, alter is-ness and not is-ness, and we do it over and over and over and over again, and we call this survival right. And so something's going on in your life and I need to change that. Okay, change it. Okay, then you not is it, and you change something, and you not is that and you change it. And you keep going through this cycle of trying to make life be right, which is survival. And we do that through time, or what looks like or is known as time, and all of this continues to go on. Well then it says I'm skipping now to axiom 17, where he said the static, having postulated as isness, then practices, alter isness, and so achieves the appearance of isness and so obtains reality. So the static, the being, you right. You've postulated isness like okay, boom, life is I am, that I am, you know, boom, right. And then practices.
Speaker 2:Throughout your life, throughout your experiences, you practice alter isness, change, change, change, change my body, change my job, change my life.
Speaker 2:Throughout your experiences, you practice alter is-ness, change, change, change, change my body, change my job, change my life, change my house, change my cat, change my dog, change, change, change, right. So you're practicing all this alter is-ness or change, so to achieve the appearance of is-ness, be like yes, this is me. So all of this change happening around you, all this stuff going on, all the practicing of ultra, is this, you come up with this appearance that this is my life, this is me, this is all that I am, and it's not true, but it's the appearance of that right, and then you so obtain what you know as your reality, as reality. This is reality for you, and when you look at it like this and I'm laughing as I'm saying it, so please forgive my tongue-in-cheek kind of way of flowing it out but when you really think about it like this freaking life is just a whole bunch of alter businesses stacked up together. To try to create this apparency of what I am of is this right yeah, these slow degrees of going off off course.
Speaker 2:You're making sense Like is this is this is this real, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you're like how?
Speaker 3:did I get here?
Speaker 1:How did I get here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like I started out this journey. I started out life and and I'm talking about your entire existence, I'm not just talking about, you know, when you were born in 1943 or whatever, I'm talking about your entire existence. And like you start out this thing, it's like I'm gonna do life and I'm gonna be something and I'm going to, and you start creating all these alterations, all this, this change that you postulate right, that you're practicing it says it I think it's an interesting word and you're practicing these alter businesses to try to create some semblance of reality. This is like matrix level stuff, right, but it's like you're, you're, you're creating this semblance of reality and you're saying that this, therefore, is my life, and it becomes so real to some people you don't understand what I'm saying Like things that going on in this life, things that happened to us, you know, it becomes so real. So then he goes into number 18, axiom 18, and he says the static, in practicing not isness brings about the persistence of unwanted existences. Get this In practicing not isness brings about the persistence of unwanted existences, and so brings about unreality.
Speaker 2:Well, arc, think about the ARC triangle. Unreality, like a breaking agreements like this ain't what I want, right, which includes forgetfulness, unconsciousness and other undesirable states. Hmm, how many of us felt like we've been in that position before. Undesirable states of existence, these unwanted existences. I don't want this. This is not what I wanted for my life. It's not what I wanted in this situation. This is not what I wanted. But you do it by practicing, not is this, and have a stacked up all these alter is this is by practicing, alter is this?
Speaker 1:it's so interesting well, look at, look at that in the context of our last podcast. Is, you know, in the, in the context of games? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have. You have all these alter businesses at this game and that game and I'm going to make this game and that game, and you didn't finish the game that you were playing. And so now you're you're like how, how did I get in this, this, this situation? Because you have these alter ismuses of games that you started to play and then you changed the game or you started a new game inside of a game you'd already started to play yeah, yeah and I know I know games upon games, right, and I know we're talking about this kind of like quickly and just kind of throwing out all these terminologies and stuff.
Speaker 2:But I want you guys to really simplify it, right, to really simplify it so that you can use this awareness, this way of thinking in your life. All of these games that we're playing with ourselves, all of these changes and alter instances that we're putting and we're practicing as a static, as a being, all of these things that we're stacking up on top of each other. You really can start to as-is some of this stuff. And this is where auditing comes in. This is why auditing is possible, right, with communication and whatnot. The reason why it's possible is because and the why it's is like we want you to get auditing is because you go in and you start as a thetan. You start going in and you start saying, oh, nope, not that one, that's not what I want. Nope, not I got that one. And you start getting rid of some of these alter businesses that have been persistent in your life for so freaking long and you start to see like, oh no, that's not, I didn't mean that. Right, I'll tell you real quickly.
Speaker 2:I was pulling in this on my own auditing track. I was pulling in abusive relationships, right. And so I was in abusive relationship I'm talking about in this present lifetime, abusive relationship after abusive relationship. And I'm like what is going on? And one day, sitting at Piedmont Park in Atlanta, georgia, I was getting audited by my co-auditor. We were going back and forth Dianetics and we started running an abusive incident that happened to me in this lifetime and it wasn't lifting. And so we're running it and running it and it wasn't lifting and the hit and all the stuff that happened to me and the abuse and it wasn't lifting. So my auditor says, well, is there an earlier incident similar to the one we're auditing? And I get snatched back.
Speaker 2:I ain't going to go into all the details, but suffice it to say this thing was the most stupidest, most asinine postulate that I made about my relationships a long time ago, right. And as soon as I cleared that up, there was so much relief and so much just like, oh, my freaking God, it just came off. It just came off, I don't know how else to say it. And since then I've never pulled in that kind of experience before Again, I've never pulled that in and it's like I get it now.
Speaker 2:That was probably the most salvific and most profound experience I had, because I know what I was mocking up, I know these relationships and I'm like this is not right, this is not how a relationship is supposed to be, and I'm saying that to myself. I'm saying to myself this is not how it's supposed to be, and yet I keep making it be, I keep mocking it up, you see. And so it wasn't until I went back and I found that postulate, that thing that said this is what it is Talking about relationships. And I was like, oh nope, scratch that one off the list. And when LRH says you are an auditor, I totally got reality on that word. An auditor, one who listens and computes because you go in, and it's almost like a freaking calculator. It's like no, no, no, no, no, that's an error, you know. Delete, delete, delete, delete, delete.
Speaker 3:And now it all lines up.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we lost you, quinton, I'm sorry, can you hear me now? Yep, yep, I'm sorry, my little link cut out. I don't know what you guys last heard, but I was saying that this is why auditing is such a valuable, valuable tool because you go in and you don't have to continue to live this way.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful so, arthur, do you want to do a process?
Speaker 3:yeah, right now, surrounding change well, before we do that, I looked up the word change and what I found really interesting is the derivative of this word. It means barter, so you're exchanging one item for another item, which is quite interesting how it sort of fits into this. You know, alter-easing and as-easing, yeah.
Speaker 1:You're in a barter system.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all right. What are we doing?
Speaker 1:So this is a change process.
Speaker 3:Is it going to make me cry?
Speaker 1:No, no, not at all. Here we go. You ready? This is from April 61, 27 of April 61. Change processes you ready? Okay, think of changing yourself, or get the idea of changing yourself, or get the idea of changing yourself, okay, okay. Now think or get the idea of another changing himself.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, now think or get the idea of changing another okay okay, what was it?
Speaker 3:what was changing the other? It was actually actually my boy bringing him up.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, think or get the idea of another trying to change you.
Speaker 3:There's been plenty of those Okay good, now think.
Speaker 1:Or get the idea of another trying to change another.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, good, now think or get the idea of another trying to change another. Okay, okay, what was it? Um, it was two people arguing and one person was trying to get their point across, but quite aggressively okay, good, now think or get the idea of not changing yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that just kind of made me sink a little bit, okay.
Speaker 3:Now think or get the idea of another, not changing himself.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, what was it?
Speaker 3:they were just stuck. Okay, it was.
Speaker 1:It's like they're stuck in a moment of time now think I get the idea of not changing another what was it?
Speaker 3:okay, um, I kind of went back to my boy again and just allowing him to be him, okay now think or get the idea of another, not changing you yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 1:it's just me being me good, now I think I get the idea of another, not changing another. Yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 3:um, it was those two guys not arguing and just enjoying their day.
Speaker 1:Good, now think or get the idea of changing yourself. Okay, okay, what was it?
Speaker 3:It was actually nothing Just me Okay, what was it?
Speaker 1:It was actually nothing, just me. Okay. Now think or get the idea of another changing himself.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:What was it?
Speaker 3:It was almost like they were just putting too much pressure on themselves. Okay, good, now think or get the idea of changing another. Okay, what was it? I didn't have to do anything other than be me good now think or get the idea of another trying to change you.
Speaker 1:I didn't have to do anything other than be me Good. Now think, or get the idea of another trying to change you yeah, okay, what was it? They can't. Thank you Now think or get the idea of another trying to change another.
Speaker 3:Okay, Okay, what was it I?
Speaker 1:feel sorry for the other if they can't be themselves. Okay, good.
Speaker 3:Now I think I get the idea of not changing yourself. Oh man, I just got really nauseous. Okay, what was it? Oh, it's actually making me really emotional now. The amount of pressure we put on ourselves is ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Thank, you Think you get the idea of another not changing himself?
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, what was it?
Speaker 3:It's kind of sad that it's sad to observe somebody's stuckness.
Speaker 1:Good, now think or get the idea of not changing another. Yeah, okay, good, what was?
Speaker 3:it. I don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1:Good, now think or get the idea of another, not changing you.
Speaker 3:Yep, okay, what was it?
Speaker 1:They can't Okay.
Speaker 3:Now I think I get the idea of another not changing, another Not changing. Okay, yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 1:It's just peaceful. Thank you. Now think you get the idea of changing yourself. Yeah, okay, what was it?
Speaker 3:I don't need to, because I know what I should be doing okay, good, think, or get the idea of another changing himself yes okay, what was? It um.
Speaker 1:He's just educating himself good, I think you get the idea of changing another.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay what was it?
Speaker 1:Nothing, I don't have to do anything. Good Now, I think you get the idea of another trying to change you. Yep.
Speaker 3:Okay, what was it? I can't.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I think you get the idea of another trying to change another.
Speaker 3:Yep, Okay what was it. Change will only occur if they allow it.
Speaker 1:Good, I think you get the idea of not changing yourself.
Speaker 3:Okay, now I'm uncomfortable about that, and the reason I'm uncomfortable for it is it's not progressive not doing anything.
Speaker 1:Okay, now think you get the idea of another not changing himself.
Speaker 3:Now, I find that sad.
Speaker 1:Okay, what was it?
Speaker 3:That they're not bettering themselves.
Speaker 1:Good, I think you get the idea of not changing another.
Speaker 3:Okay, I don't have to.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, now think or get the idea of another, not changing you.
Speaker 3:They're not allowed to.
Speaker 1:Okay, think or get the idea of another, not changing another.
Speaker 3:They can do whatever they want, okay, good.
Speaker 1:How does change seem to you now?
Speaker 3:It's almost a dirty word. In some ways it has its positives, if it's in a healthy way change for betterment. That's a tricky question actually, oh Mm-hmm, because I'm stuck on this whole barter thing. So in order for me to change, I've got to do something different, whatever that may be, and then, in order to change, I have to give something away in order to replace it right, which is what we were talking about before we started the process yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:so if I want to replace certain parts of myself, I need something to replace them with, as opposed to just thinking I'm replacing them with unproductive things, but unproductive for myself, and yeah, and I think that's that's the point of it, isn't it like things, but unproductive for myself, and yeah, and I think that's the point of it, isn't it? Like you know, I don't need to change anything as such, but we're in constant change.
Speaker 1:Right, quentin, yes, and that is change. How about?
Speaker 3:that, Arthur. Yeah, it's pretty good. It's got me feeling really uncomfortable, to be honest, Like in a good way. In a good way.
Speaker 2:Uncomfortable as in it's like's like man. It can be so simple. Um, that's what I was.
Speaker 3:That's exactly what I was thinking too. Yeah, it's dauntingly simple and and that's the thing, and that's where, like man, there's a massive amount of altruism. Is there a massive amount?
Speaker 1:massive, yeah, okay, yeah well done, okay, quentin you up for one yeah, 100 okay, how have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2:am I answering this or do you want me to get the idea of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can go ahead. This is a different set of brackets. How have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2:I have tried to work out.
Speaker 1:Okay, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2:I have tried to educate and enlighten.
Speaker 1:Okay, good. How has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2:By trying to give me, the first thing that comes up is give me things.
Speaker 1:How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2:By telling himself stories.
Speaker 1:Good, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2:Another tried to change another by war.
Speaker 1:Okay With war? How have you tried to change yourself? Okay With war how?
Speaker 2:have you tried to change yourself? I've tried to change myself by growing up, growing my body. Good how have you tried to change another? I've tried to change another by creating systems like my business creating businesses.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:How has another tried to change himself? Uh, through another. He's trying to change himself through um watching television.
Speaker 1:Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2:by producing television.
Speaker 1:Watching television. Okay, how has another tried to change another by producing television?
Speaker 2:Good, how have you tried to change yourself? I've tried to change myself by journaling.
Speaker 1:Okay, how have you tried to change?
Speaker 2:another, another I've tried to change another by uh two-way communication talking to them okay, how has another tried to change you? By um telling. Telling me a story or telling a lie? I guess a story. I won't say a story, but it's like a lie okay, how has another tried to change himself? Oh, I'm sorry I'm yawning, excuse me, barbie how's another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2:um, another has tried to change himself by excuse me, pardon me. Um, oh, another tries to change himself by um, building a house. I'm seeing I'm seeing like chopping wood, but building a house, okay, how'm seeing like chocolate wood but building a house.
Speaker 1:Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2:Another tried to change another by contracts and agreements.
Speaker 1:Good. How have you tried to change yourself? By making some clear policies and postures that work for me. Okay, good.
Speaker 2:How have you tried to change another? By helping them?
Speaker 1:see that change is possible. Okay, how has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2:By showing me ways of doing things that are different from what I normally do or the way I normally do them.
Speaker 1:Okay. How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2:By normally do them. Okay. How has another tried to change himself? By seeking out better wisdom or better ideas?
Speaker 1:Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2:Like by another, has tried to change another by coming to the table and figuring out what works for both. Compromise Good.
Speaker 1:How have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2:I have figured out different ways that work for me and created my life around those ways that work for me.
Speaker 1:Thank you. How have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2:I have put people in key positions that help them to make good decisions, or better decisions for their lives. So I change in themselves.
Speaker 1:Good. How has another tried to change you, changing themselves?
Speaker 2:Good. How has another tried to change you by showing me the error of my ways at times, Okay, that happens.
Speaker 1:How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2:By listening to others.
Speaker 1:Good, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2:By Good, how has another tried to change another by oh, that's interesting. By like moving their, moving them through space, like by saying, okay, come here. Like, move here. Like get away from there, move here.
Speaker 1:Okay, how have you tried to change yourself, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Okay, how have you tried to change yourself? Um, by changing my, uh, immediate environment. Okay, how have you tried to change another? By um getting them to this?
Speaker 1:is what coming up, but getting them to do something different with their hair, okay.
Speaker 2:How has another tried to change you by? Oh, this is interesting with sex.
Speaker 1:Okay, they tried to change me with sex, okay.
Speaker 2:How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 1:Change himself with. This is what I'm seeing. Like with pictures, like mental image pictures Good.
Speaker 2:How has another viewpoint can change another person's?
Speaker 1:viewpoint. Okay, how have you tried to change yourself? I have given myself permission to be good, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2:I have granted beingness to them and allowed them to become more of who they are, thank you.
Speaker 1:How has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2:Um by, oh, through praise and admiration. That's nice.
Speaker 1:How has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2:By doing the mental and physical work in order to become better at being them.
Speaker 1:Good, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2:Good. How has another tried to change another? By taking the time to really hear a person out and get to some kind of agreement and ARC with them so that, therefore, there's no longer a disparity. It's like they become they get on the same page, they're vibrating at the same frequency and that created the change that was necessary.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, how have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2:I have opened myself to being able to experience anything. I'm good.
Speaker 1:Okay, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2:I have allowed myself to. Oh, I've. Okay, I've purposed myself, thank you. I've purposed myself to become a change agent like I want to help change. Help people change themselves when they're ready.
Speaker 1:Okay, how has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2:By trying to convince me of their rightness and my wrongness.
Speaker 1:Okay, how has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2:By trying to convince himself of his rightness and others wrongness.
Speaker 1:Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2:um by, oh, by, wearing sexy clothes like seductive, like seductive wear.
Speaker 1:Okay, how have you tried to change yourself?
Speaker 2:I have tried to improve my smile, my teeth.
Speaker 1:Good, how have you tried to change another?
Speaker 2:By giving them, oh show, showing them opportunities that could benefit them, them in their life.
Speaker 1:Okay, how has another tried to change you?
Speaker 2:by giving me money comes up again.
Speaker 1:Giving me money. Okay, how has another tried to change himself?
Speaker 2:By flowing something, flowing out money to get an improvement, like going to a personal trainer or something.
Speaker 1:Okay, how has another tried to change another?
Speaker 2:Oh, by being a teacher or a trainer or a coach, by like doing the work towards trying to help change other people. Okay, and how have you tried to change yourself myself, to change as I see fit at any given moment and realizing that that feels right to me, for me?
Speaker 1:in my reality and my actuality and that feels good, Good.
Speaker 2:So how do you feel about change now? I feel that change is inevitable. I feel that change happens all around us at every moment, in every part of existence and survival, and I feel that is only how we perceive change and how we receive right and conceive of change. That makes it, you know, I guess, put a judgment on it. So if I'm trying to help somebody, then that's positive change. If you were, If I'm trying to control or manipulate somebody, that's negative change. And so and these are all perceptions, but it's all just change if you really look at it from the basic. Basic. And so, yeah, change is inevitable in survival, but we don't have to. We can choose how we allow ourselves to change and how we help change others, and vice versa.
Speaker 1:Right, artie, you had a big smile on your face.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I'm good, I'm good, yeah, I'm good, it's interesting. It's interesting going through that process, and then it's also interesting observing the process how so? Um, well, I was thinking many different things because, like, I'm coming from my immediate environment and where I live, and then quentin's coming from his immediate environment and where he lives, his experiences and my experiences, and just the way we interpret it so uniquely and so differently, yeah, same questions and extremely different answers.
Speaker 1:Right. So that's how auditing works, is it gets you to take another perspective on different flows, to get you to look at things?
Speaker 3:but somebody else might have completely different answers depending on where they're at on the subject of change yeah, and it was interesting there were so many things quentin said that I'm like, oh yeah, I didn't even think of that. That wasn't my first thought, which I thought was interesting.
Speaker 1:You can see where the Go ahead, Quentin.
Speaker 2:No, go ahead.
Speaker 1:You can see where the alter-is-ness is.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:When it comes to change.
Speaker 3:So what's the phenomena of that one? I'm curious.
Speaker 1:The phenomena is some sort of a cognition, you know yeah you have a, have a realization on it. You know, and uh, on a meter, your floating needles and vgi is good, very good indicators. So you know these can. These can be run as group processes as well I like.
Speaker 2:I like the one about get the idea too, because, yeah, because, even as as you were running arts, I was getting so many like different ideas around it, and it's because for me you know this is interesting because we talked about this before the podcast that a definition of power is the ability to hold space right, to hold your space Amidst external forces and other things going on, and when a being is like, grounded and knows who they are as they're going through all this stuff. Change doesn't have to be scary, right, like, because the truth of the matter is you're the constant. You are the constant in your life. I don't care who you around, who you with, who your mama is, who your daddy is, all that other stuff. You are the constant in your life. And when you understand who you are, from time immemorial up until now, like you get like oh wait, I haven't gone through a lot of change. I don't have different bodies and different beings and different hairstyles, and with the hair that you came up with, I cracked up laughing because I'm like, yeah, I guess that is a change, right, but it's like we don't think about how all those things are different, window dressing, of this being right, regardless of the body, regardless of the body, regardless of the you know skin or the whatever, it's just window dressing, right, and I get to be me throughout all of this and and and, like I said before, like by having this consideration about change, like it doesn't necessarily have to scare me. So if I want to pick up and move from California to Thailand, I do that shit and it's okay, like it's just, it's like nothing can frighten me in this, because I know that wherever I go there, I am, you know, whatever changes happen, I am still me.
Speaker 2:In all of this and and and. If I need to mock up some more mess, like I need to mock up a house, or I need to mock up a car, I need to mock up this, ok, it's just change. You said, oh, bibbidi-bobbidi-boop, that's like easy to me, and so these things don't have to frighten us if we know who we are. Lrh talks about security. He was like the only security that you have is you, period, everything else can fall away. Everything else might go away Shit, I don't know but the only security you have is you. And when you know that, hey, nothing daunts you. So I love that.
Speaker 1:Yep, and that's how auditing works.
Speaker 2:That's pretty good, yeah, well, you know it's interesting because our art and not to evaluate or anything, but like some of the considerations there really kind of stood out to me. It reminded me of a lecture that LRH gave called Alter Isness and the Keynote of All Destruction, and it kind of like I can see how we get there. Right, because he talks about how alter isness is the keynote of all destruction, and I'm just going to read a quick excerpt where he says now you get something like that going on. There's practically no way to reach it with an auditing session. Overts, overts, overts. You get the idea? Well, this results in alteration and alter-is-ness. The basis of destruction is alter-is-ness, and when somebody would like to destroy you but can't, all he can do is alter is. You Got the idea?
Speaker 2:Oh, we see this in various ways In Theta. You see, here's an auditor sitting in the area and he's doing all right and some other auditor isn't doing all right, so they start accumulating over against this auditor that is doing all right. The next thing, you know, the person that's committing the over gets madder and madder at the auditor. This fellow has never done anything to, you understand, to this other guy, maybe even sent him some PCs, and the more that B does to A, the more overts, overts, overts pile up and turn into anger, anger, anger. You get the idea. This is a one-man fight. There's no other fight going on over here. See, boy, it begins to look like a cyclone is happening in this vicinity. This fellow goes to bed at night and bites the pillow, you know, screams to himself and while auditing the PC, something like that lets out a yips occasionally.
Speaker 2:That is alter isness, destruction as we know it in war or in anything else. Alter-is-ness of creation. It is not the cessation of creation, it is the alter-is-ness of the existing creation. I like this, and the reason why this really stood out to me, and even when Art was talking, is because I can see how change could fuck people up, like alter-is-ness can mess some people up, like alter isness can mess some people up. Like alter isness can make a person feel shitty. Alter isness like you're not seeing me, you're not getting my truth, you're not duplicating me, you're not getting it, and so you're just altering, altering, altering, change, change, change, over, over over, piling up all this stuff, and I'm like wait, I'm just trying to be over here, you see, yeah, and so so I get how we have these different experiences and different ways of experiencing change and life and alter business, because alter business is the keynote to destruction. It's what LRA says yeah, like people try to fucking destroy you. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3:This is crazy, and we all want the same thing in the end, which is funny. We all just want to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we all hope to be. That's it. Wow, I love people.
Speaker 2:I love people.
Speaker 3:I love them, but sometimes a gun would be handy.
Speaker 2:Just to have it about, you know Just in case you want to create a little change, I just want to create a little change, A little change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. That's a drastic change.
Speaker 3:Problem solved. Boom, that's a drastic change.
Speaker 2:problem solved that was a joke. Yeah, so anybody listening? That was literally a joke metaphorically, metaphorically, metaphorically, right well, I, I, I.
Speaker 1:I'd like to think that everybody listening to this got an idea on change and how they can affect change, uh, in a positive way, and the best way to do that is through getting on your auditing, getting up the bridge and handling change to where you're a cause over it and you're playing the game you want to play, as opposed to the physical universe of the game playing you. So take that into consideration with the last podcast too, as far as games go. So, for Quentin and Arthur and myself, I really enjoyed this podcast. I hope you did too, and we will see you next time, probably tomorrow or Tuesday, for our next podcast and namaste, and we love you. Bye, bye peace.
Speaker 3:bye, bye, thank you, thank you.