Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
Did you know Scientology the Subject and The Church of Scientology are two completely different things? Find out why and what the difference is and how it can help you. Topics range from Independent Scientology, solving life's problems, past lives, secret government, metaphysical, Para-Scientology, UFOS/UAPS, ghost hunting, spirituality, and a lot more! Come check us out!
Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE11EP5 - Independent Scientology and Evil Purposes
In this powerful episode of Scientology Outside of the Church, Jonathan Burke and Quenton Stroud dive deep into one of the most overlooked but critical topics in Independent Scientology: evil purposes, insanity, and the mechanism behind false PR. Drawing from LRH’s CS Series 118 and Data Series 8, they explore how fixed ideas, false authority, and uninspected assumptions can distort observation, collapse organizations, and derail lives—both personally and globally.
The hosts unpack examples ranging from the COVID era’s PR contradictions to the deceptive façade of Corporate Scientology’s Ideal Orgs. They explain how misapplied tech, real estate bait-and-switch, and coercive fundraising strategies are not just unethical—they’re rooted in false purpose and fixed ideas that violate the very essence of LRH’s intentions. You’ll learn how evil purposes often hide behind noble-sounding ideals and why real Scientology, practiced independently, strips away the lies to deliver true case gain and freedom.
Whether you’re a longtime Scientologist, newly out of the Church, or curious about Independent Scientology, this is essential listening. Jonathan and Quentin don’t hold back—they call out the betrayal of the tech, honor the truth of LRH’s writings, and offer hope: that freedom is still available, but only when delivered honestly and without financial exploitation.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Hi everyone and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. This is going to be season 11, episode 5. We are going to do the podcast on independent Scientology and insanity evil purposes. I'm here with Quentin Stroud. I don't think we've done one on this before, so this should be an interesting one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So where do we want to start on this? Quentin Data Series 8, sanity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, as we were getting ready for this, obviously when we talk about evil purposes in Scientology, the study of it is kind of a catch-all phrase. I guess the way we kind of look at it is more like a catch-all phrase, like something that is definitely obviously not pro-survival insanity, things of that nature. But it actually gets really interesting the phenomena of evil purposes and how it shows up, and it can kind of be used as a weapon if you will, and I think sometimes it has been used as a weapon. But when you really see it unfolding, when you really understand the mechanism of evil purposes and insanity, you really get how bad this thing can go Right.
Speaker 2:So we started off with the data series, the CS series, on evil purposes and false PR, and this is actually an addition to some other things that he has spoken about it. But he says here that an additional point in the behavior of people with evil purposes has been found. They often cover their evil purposes up with, usually, and usually with PR statements. These are actually false reports of one kind or another. The dominating behavior, action is false reports and neglect of the real situation. Under all of that can generally be found an evil purpose LRH. And so we see that generally, when people have evil purposes, they try to cover up those things with this, these PR statements, these public statements. Isn't that something that this is? This is a widely used mechanism to try to cover up evil purposes. Let's, let's, let's, make it really big and really bold and really brazen.
Speaker 1:I think it's interesting. Let's get an example of that. How could that be?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I mean, just as an example, you know, we just had the whole everything going on with the COVID and the vaccinations and stuff like that, and how many, how many PR statements came out Many of them contradictory, by the way. How many of these PR statements came out just even about that right, like, oh, at one moment it won't, it won't save your life, but it'll stop the spread, but then it'll stop the spread, but it won't, you won't go to the hospital, then it won't go to the hospital, but then you you'll still go to the hospital, but you won't die. And it just came over and over and over and over and over again about. And this is just one example, right.
Speaker 1:Right, well, and, and then the. You need to get a shot, but then you need five boosters and you can still get COVID, even though you have the shot Right and the boosters. So what does that tell you?
Speaker 2:It tells you that somewhere on the line might have been an evil purpose. It says under all of that can generally be found an evil purpose. These big, bold statements and it happens even in our own lives as well. If you look at it on a personal level, you know how many times have you been in a situation where somebody wants to smear your name or somebody wants to make it very bold and big that you know something is the case. And it says here and these are actually false reports of one kind or another. Right, and they're false reports and neglect of the real situation, not really dealing with what reality is on the matter. It's just a PR statement about something or someone.
Speaker 1:Right and a false PR would be a false statement. It's a misdirection, correct. Now this leads us back to, because this is CS Series 118-1, 17 June 1984. Then this leads us back to CS Series 118, where he says the apparent sequence is apparently the sequence with such persons is A they get off over it but then continue committing them. So, like in the COVID thing, for example, we saw that. We saw that, well, we did, but we didn't. They kind of got off overts through more false PR, because each time they change it it was pretty obvious wait, that's a contrary fact, that's contradictory. You said you need the shot and then, oh, wait, you need a booster, and then you need another booster and then you need another. And so they're sort of covertly getting off their overts of what they're. And then it says but then continue committing another. And so they're sort of covertly getting off their over it's of what they're. And then it says but then continue committing them. Perfect example, perfect. Then he says B when overt products and flaps in their areas get investigated, they palm it off as having gone effective.
Speaker 1:Others, black PR or false data. In other words, the person appears to be PTS, so in this case the persons. They would say, well, this came from China, this came from North Carolina, this came from, I mean, you know how many places did we hear about that? Yep, just like that. And then C, they managed to convince those doing the investigating that that's the end of the investigation. I was the Chinese, they did it, Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's the end of the investigation. Right, it's all been figured out.
Speaker 1:That's it, it's all been figured out, yeah, yeah, out, yeah, yeah. And. And then finally he says if something flaps, they get off some overts and start the cycle again at a which is getting off overts. So it's, it's repetitive. So these, these are evil purposes. So that brings us back to our data series and sanity. So we've got a little bit of a background here from a tech standpoint. Now we're going to get the admin background on this and again we're using the data series, just like we did in one of the earlier podcasts a couple of weeks ago. You want to, you want to lead with this, you want me to.
Speaker 2:So basically he talks about what sanity is, excuse me, and he says an observer has to be sane to sane the observe, um, and he talks about how society has kind of used the word sane to mean conservative or cautious or something you can agree with. The 19th century psychologist decided he could not define normal and there weren't any normal people. The 14th century psychiatrist is a 20th century authority on sanity, yet an examination of such shows them to be unable to demonstrate it personally or bring it about, much less define it. So dictionaries says it talking about sanity as health, soundness of body or mind, level-headedness, reasonableness. Yet sanity is vital to accurate observation.
Speaker 2:So I think it's interesting that we talk about these false PR statements. We talk about this you know sleight of hand, as it were, you know whodunit kind of thing, and pointing over here, pointing over there, all that stuff. And he said that it starts off talking about sanity as a way that you have to be sane to sanely observe something. You have to know what you're looking at and know that it's you looking at it and not something else. Isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1:Now, what causes this? Fixed ideas, he says the idea of fix a is the bug in insanity. Whenever an observer himself has fixed ideas, he tends to look at them, not at the information. Prejudiced people are suffering mainly from an idea fixe or a fixed idea. The strange part of it is that the fixed idea they think they have isn't the one they do have. Think about that for a second. The strange part of it is that the fixed idea they think they have isn't the one they do have.
Speaker 1:An example of this is a social scientist with a favorite theory. I've seen tons of these birds pushing a theory as though it was the last theory in the world and valuable as a 10-pound diamond. Such throw away any fact that does not agree with theory. That's how 19th century psychology went off the rails All fixed ideas and no facts. That's how 19th century psychology went off the rails all fixed ideas and no facts. History is full of idiocies and idiots with fixed ideas. They cannot observe beyond the idea.
Speaker 1:A fixed idea is something accepted without personal inspection or agreement. Now let's, let's talk about that for a minute, Okay? And he says it is the perfect authority knows best, it is the reliable source. A typical one was the intelligence report accepted by the whole US Navy right up to 7 December 1941, the date of the destruction of the US fleet by Japanese planes. The pre Pearl Harbor report from unimpeachably reliable sources was, quote the Japanese cannot fly, they have no sense of balance. Unquote. That actually was said. The report overlooked that the Japanese were the world's greatest acrobats. It became a fixed idea that caused the neglect of all other reports and thus Pearl Harbor happened.
Speaker 1:A fixed idea is uninspected. It blocks the existence of any contrary observation. Most reactionaries, people resisting all progress or action, are suffering from fixed ideas which they receive from authorities which no actual experience alters. Okay, now when he says authority, this is good. Yep. When he says authorities, now in quotations authorities, quote, unquote. This is where your evil purposes come from, Because at the bottom of an evil purpose is a confusion, that, something, that that they didn't understand something. They didn't understand something they didn't understand that caused them to now have an evil purpose. When you spot the prior confusion, that blows the evil purpose. Think about that for a second.
Speaker 2:Brilliant, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting because even as we talk about independent Scientology and there are still people who are not they have such a fixed idea about Scientology that it's hard for them to even observe or experience anything beyond that fixed idea, like it's hard to even conceive of something beyond it.
Speaker 2:So when we talk about independent Scientology, you know, outside of the organization, outside of the church, outside of the construct that is around the body of data, right, the way it was all, the way it gets results, the way it works, when we talk about the differences of that, it's a lot of people who cannot perceive that independent Scientology is different from Church of Scientology. And there's a lot of people that cannot perceive the difference because they have a fixed idea about what Scientology is and it says, and they suffer from a fixed idea that was received from authorities quote unquote which no actual experience alters. And so even to hear of a win, even to see somebody doing better in their experience, even to see somebody improving in their business or something and so on, that does not. Oh, but it can't be Scientology, it can't be the tech, it can't be the auditing. It must have been a coincidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. We had a comment recently where this person said that real scientists said that Scientology doesn't work. I love it and that's the reliable source. Okay, you got any more information on that? I love it and that's the reliable source. Okay, you got any more information on that? Or are we just dealing in a wait for it? A generality? Right a generality, real, when you can take somebody in session in Dianetics and go in with them for an hour and change their life.
Speaker 2:Yep Change their life.
Speaker 1:But it doesn't work and that's why Dianetics has sold millions and millions of copies. There's a difference between the technology, the science of it, and the corrupt organization. So the source, the authorities, lrh, and if you do it right, you get something out of it.
Speaker 2:But again, again, we go back to CS series 118, where he says let's see here, I want to get this right here about oh, here it is yes about how the apparent sequence they get their overts off and then they continue committing them right, right, the constant overt case.
Speaker 1:So he says when over it again. This is B on on the apparent sequence. When overt products and flaps in their areas get investigated, they palm it off as having gone effective. Others, black PR, false data. In other words, a person appears to be PTS, but instead what they're doing is they're committing constant overts. Right, they're committing constant overts so they don't get case gain because they're committing constant overts, so it just keeps going on and on. They managed to convince those doing the investigating that that's the end of it, the end of the investigation. So they never get better because they're pointing out somebody else saying this and not taking any responsibility for it. Oh, it's the Chinese, it wasn't us, but we'll sell you the vaccine.
Speaker 2:It must be this, when it's really that it must be my ADHD or it must be my whatever.
Speaker 1:It must be my thing, but it can't be me, right, right, so nothing gets handled. So you go back to the normal scene. The reason a fixed idea can get so rooted and so overlooked is that it appears normal or reasonable and somebody, or a lot of somebodies, want to believe it. Thus a fixed idea can become an ideal. It is probably a wrong ideal. Incapable Japanese pilots would be a wish for a Navy. It would be wonderful.
Speaker 1:Red-coated infantry were supposed to be brave and unflinching, even though they stand out in the open and ended up getting killed by the millions because they didn't believe in guerrilla warfare and getting behind something to protect them. So they just got shot. Right, because they were noble. Right, they were trying to be noble In both cases. Kind of, with a noble Right, they were trying to be noble. In both cases the ideal is irrational. A rational ideal has this law the purpose of the activity must be part of the ideal one has for that activity. A navy that has an ideal that the enemy can't fly is stupidly avoiding its own purpose, which is to fight. British infantry had the purpose of winning wars, not just looking brave. Thus one can analyze for a sane ideal by simply asking what's the purpose of this activity or the activity.
Speaker 2:Go on. Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, If the ideal is one that forwards a purpose, it will pass for sane. There are many factors which add up to an ideal scene. If the majority of these forward the purpose of the activity, it can be said to be a sane ideal. If an ideal which does not forward the activity in any way is the ideal being stressed, then a fixed idea is present and had better be inspected. This could be said to be a very harsh, utilitarian view of things, but it is not. The artistic plays its role in any ideal. Morale has its part in any ideal, so yeah, I think it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:And he goes on to talk about how you know, the very beautiful, very ugly. I think it's beautiful. I, you know, you know, I really believe that the heart of Scientology, the heart of this technology, is better people, better world, better experiences, better life. And he just broke it down right here. He said a rational ideal has this law the purpose of the activity must be part of the ideal one has for that activity. So think about this, let's think about any activity you have in your life, right, the purpose of that activity right must be part of the ideal one has for that activity. So I'm just going to talk about me for a second, because that's what I, you know, that's, that's the best thing I can do right now. But the purpose of for me, the purpose of dating to me, is to find a great 2D experience in the whole thing, or whatever, whatever. And so my activity right has to be a part of the ideal scene or the ideal that one has for that activity.
Speaker 2:So I've been on dates, literally, and on the day I'll talk about marriage and I'll say so, how do you see yourself get married, you know? And if the answer is no, that's the end of the conversation. For me, that's the end of the conversation, like, like I've literally was. That was that Ruby Tuesdays, florida went on a date, had the conversation. No, I don't think I want to get married, I just don't see myself for myself. Yada, yada, yada. And I said, wow, ok, well, good, well, it was really nice meeting you and I bid you good day, I paid the bill and I left. That was it Because it wasn't a part of my ideal fee.
Speaker 2:It wasn't't part of my ideal fee. It wasn't part of the ideal I have for the activity of dating here. I'm not doing this, I'm not wasting my time, I'm not wasting yours. It has the purpose of the activity, must be part of the ideal one has for that activity. To me it makes perfect sense and it's a very. If he says this law and you, I, I like what lrh uses that word because it's a law okay, you gotta look at you gotta look at your scene and ask yourself the question is what I'm doing a part of my ideal for what? What I'm doing? And if it's not, there must be a fixed part? He said, he just said in a whole bunch of fancy, and if it's not, there must be a fixed. He said it. He just said it in a whole bunch of fancy words. But if it's not, there must be a fixed idea present, and it had better be expected.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Now let's Come on, man Right, let's take this back to the ideal org situation that we did a couple of podcasts ago. Okay. So org situation that we did a couple of podcasts ago Okay. So he says so the factor of obsessive change enters. Change can destroy with ferocity. He says the fact that something is actually operating and solvent can outweigh the untested advantages of changing it.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's look at orgs the way they were as to now, with the ideal org. He says Birmingham, where you could get anything made, had all its tiny craft shops swept away and replaced with high rent, huge new buildings, all on some progress-crazy, psychotic break. Hear me on this. Possibly the new stores and the huge new shops fitted somebody's ideal ideal org, but they did not match an actual operating environment. He says in this difference between ideal scene and practical scene which brings down many old businesses and civilizations. He says whole areas of London jammed with small but customer-filled shops have been swept away to make room for chromium, high-rent, modern stores which stand empty of buyers. Okay, Put that in the ideal org situation. You've got these beautiful buildings and nobody in them because their repute has been so ruined by all of the PR activities and the misapplication of tech, that you can have the, the, the prettiest building in the world, and you can't get anybody in it. Yeah, Urges to improve is the section on data series eight where he talks about so is that?
Speaker 1:Is that an evil purpose? Is that an evil purpose to go in and do all this stuff, make these orgs look like something? And this is what it is. This is what Scientology is. No, that's not what LRH intended, Because if you're getting a bunch of people to donate money, donate money, donate money you're not getting an exchange in. You're not getting an exchange in, You're donating money. See, this is where it goes wrong, because what it is, it's a false front. You're getting somebody to pay for this stuff.
Speaker 2:We've been able to do this because we're so successful and we're doing so well. The truth of the matter is it's donations that's gotten you to this point, not exchange.
Speaker 1:Not solvency.
Speaker 2:Not solvency, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, that's an evil purpose, because you're saying look, this is what it is. Look at all the beautiful gold filigree. Look at all the nice furniture. Look at all the fancy computer displays, look at it all. That's an evil purpose because you're saying this is what this is not what it really is. That's an alter isness of one of the four states of being.
Speaker 2:And going back to the evil purposes of false PR, it says that the person is a false report of some kind or another and the dominating behavior action is false reports and neglect of the real situation. So so we're gonna, we're gonna give a false report, a false viewpoint, a ideal, and then we're going to neglect the real situation. That really is the problem, or really is what it is right. And so, and when this shows up, you know that under all of that can generally be found an evil purpose. Per LRH Right.
Speaker 1:Now the question is is what is that? Well, I mean, what is that evil purpose?
Speaker 1:Right, well, that's something that has to be pulled out, but yeah, Right and we've talked about that in other podcasts as to what happens to Scientology and how it was taken over by the shadow government and all of this stuff and things getting changed. That is the evil purpose. That is what is going on. Anybody that reaches is depleted of their funds, is spun in and told they have to get more repairs and pay for more things. All of that stuff is why they can't be functional, because they're not delivering the real thing. They're doing something else and it's used as an excuse to pull as much money out of people as possible and not deliver what's promised, which we covered in the last one about why you're angry with Scientology. So there's an underlying evil purpose to do something other than what LRH said. That's what it is, and it's sort of like flypaper Catch as many people as you can who want to do better and then get them for as much as you possibly can oh geez, and use the org as the bait. Use these donated organizations as the bait. Look how beautiful it is. This is how successful we are. Somebody else paid for it and we also ran out other floors of the building to other businesses that type of a thing and so you've got a false front where you have something posing as a religious philosophy, as a real estate acquisition firm with other people's money. Think about that. That's an evil purpose. And you're telling the donors. Think about what you're doing for Scientology and all that stuff. Do you see that to our listeners? Do you see that? Do you see that To our listeners? Do you see that? Do you see that evil purpose? Because the orgs, even after the building is bought, rebuilt new furniture and all this stuff. And I've mentioned this before and it just blows my mind, blows my mind that once this is all done and they have, these donors pay for all of this stuff and the corporate church Ms Cavage and company owns the building, owns the deed, owns everything in it that was paid for by somebody else. I mean, I must have a hard time talking about it because the org, the people that are in this org, once all of this is done, they still have to pay rent to corporate Scientology. Did you hear that built made nice? And these poor people in these orgs that are working in there, struggling to survive, making $50, $100 a week because there's nobody in there, these people are suffering as staff members because they still have the rent is the first thing that comes out in an org per policy. Got to pay the rent, so who are we paying rent to and for what? Think about that. That is an evil fucking purpose and these people have to suffer for this.
Speaker 1:And they're trying to do something correct. They're trying to do something right, they're trying to do something noble, they're trying to be altruistic. They believe in the tech, even though it's been changed, and they're being hoodwinked into suffering themselves in the first, second and third dynamics. For something that is bought, sold and paid for by a donor, there's no real product and exchange given other than the fact that you know, maybe you'll get up the bridge quicker because you donated so much money and oh, by the way, you're going to have to still pay for your OT levels. Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1:This is what's going on with the corporate church of Scientology. Scientology works, it works. Dianetics works when it's done properly and people need to know this, even the people in the church. They're getting screwed by David Miscavige Screwed. That's an evil purpose. When you have to work 40, 60, 80, 100 hours a week to get something done and they're demand, demand, demand, demand and you have no life and you don't get a decent paycheck because he's getting paid by your efforts. That is human trafficking, my friends. That is an evil purpose of magnitude and it occurs every goddamn day. Think about that. Anyway, I'm done with my moment of rage.
Speaker 2:No, I'm telling you, as you really go through, uh, the data series and you go through, like these cs series and stuff like that, when you really see how much sense lrh made towards the things that we observe in everyday life that you, you can see this going on in governments. You can see this going on in organizations. Some of us can see this going on in governments. You can see this going on in organizations. Some of us can see this going on in our own personal lives, like you can see how it's happening and when you really look at it, when you really clear the words, when you really understand what's being talked about here. There's a lot of stuff that he talks about, these points of sanity and what happens and what it takes to survive. Like all this stuff is really really good data. Like you said, scientology works, the data is the data and it's valuable data. But those would, I think he said at the beginning, an observer has to be sane to sanely observe.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and this is what's happening. The fixed idea is we have to have beautiful buildings in order to get people in. No, you don't. What happened in the 1970s? What happened in the 1960s? They didn't have beautiful buildings. Scientology is down to about 25,000 people worldwide and back then it was in the hundreds, if not millions. They didn't have beautiful buildings, was in the hundreds, if not millions. They didn't have beautiful buildings.
Speaker 1:That's a fixed idea from an authority, david Miscavige, who's misrepresenting the ideal org data series policy letter and this. I know this took a bit of an odd turn, but it's a really good example of fixed ideas and people believing in authority saying that this is what this is. Who have that they look at it as Miscavige is a reliable source and that's the problem. It's just like the redcoats in the British army or that Japanese pilots couldn't fly. It's the same thing. Pass this off to people that you know that are in the church, this podcast, and get them to listen to this. This is what's going on, and it's going on all over the planet. It's going on with individuals every day and you need to understand what sanity and evil purposes can do. So I hope this has been very helpful to people and if you have any questions, leave them in the comments on YouTube. And, uh, we'd love to talk to you about it.
Speaker 1:Uh, we have our half price bridge special going on, where you can get up the bridge for half of our price. Half of our price. Get in touch with us. Eight one, six, three, five, five, four, six, oh, six. Or you can get on our AO. Get in touch with us, 816-355-4606. Or you can get on our ao-gporg website and put a message into Finn, the AI there in the bottom right hand corner, and ask for more information and we'll get you up the bridge without all the bullshit. Get up the bridge without the baggage, just get up the bridge. You have to, you need to, you want to. So, for Quentin Straub and myself, namaste, and we love you, thank you. Thanks for watching.