Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
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Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE11EP6 - Independent Scientology Beingness Revisited
In this episode, Jonathan Burke, Arthur Moudakis, and Quenton Stroud dive deep into the concept of granting beingness within the framework of Independent Scientology. Arthur shares how a personal exploration of his values uncovered profound insights about how we alter our perceptions to suit emotional comfort—even at the cost of our own integrity. The discussion unpacks the emotional and ethical confront required to truly let someone “be” who they are, especially when their tone level or actions conflict with our own values or empathy.
The hosts explore the practical application of the Tone Scale, the Chart of Human Evaluation, and the Awareness Scale in determining whether a person is ready for change—or simply not. They emphasize the importance of recognizing when it’s time to stop trying to “save” others and instead uphold one’s own beingness by maintaining ARC selectively, without compromising integrity. The analogy of Batman and the Joker is used to illustrate how higher-toned beings can become entangled in chaotic games played by lower-toned individuals, and how stepping out of that game is sometimes the only responsible action.
The conversation wraps with a powerful look at how Independent Scientology offers the tools to rise out of apathy, confusion, and emotional entrapment—through knowledge, responsibility, and control. The podcast calls listeners to action: to get auditing, take charge of their own spiritual condition, and grant others the freedom to be—whether or not they choose to rise. It’s a blunt yet compassionate exploration of personal freedom, responsibility, and the price of true spiritual growth.
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Hi everybody and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast brought to you by ao-gporg and thecollegeofindependentscientologycom. I'm here with Arthur Mudakis and Quentin Stroud and the title of this is Beingness Revisited. The title of this is being this Revisited. I want to remind everybody we've got a half-price bridge special going on. Half of our price, that's your entire Scientology bridge auditing from the Purif all the way to OT8. Half of half, really, basically, is what it comes down to. So if you get in touch with us 816-355-4606, or you get on our websites that I just mentioned, you can put your information in on FIN, our friendly AI service, and we'll get in touch with you and give you all the information on this.
Speaker 1:This is an incredible, incredible deal for an amazing amount of auditing and an amazing amount of gains. We just had an OT2 completion this week as well. Yeah, I saw that. That was fantastic. Our student is now on OT3. So we have quite a few people on the solo course and several people on the OT levels right now and some people on the lower grades getting auditing. So come join us. So, being this revisited? This was Arthur's idea and we've done a lot of podcasts on be, do, have and being this and things like that, and we're going to revisit the subject. Arthur has had some pretty big wins recently, so take it away arthur and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 2:Okay, so, short story, I've been looking at my values, my personal values and um, and I highly recommend people do this process because it's not only confronting but extremely enlightening as well, and there's a lot I've realized going through this process that I thought I knew but actually did not know, which kind of brings me to even just scientology knowing how to know. And what's interesting about that is the knowing part. I don't know. It's like it becomes a part of you. It's not something that you can express in words, but you use the words and you go through all this thing to get to that knowing and then all of a sudden it just applies itself to your body. It's a really, really interesting thing, and so, as I've been going through my values, it's really opened up scientology even more for me. And so all the training that you do in scientology, um, getting you to that part, um, and so it's brought me to the part of beingness, allowing people their beingness.
Speaker 2:Now I could be quite empathetic and so my approach to beingness has always been an empathetic approach.
Speaker 2:So you allow somebody their beingness because you know, through empathy you can see a part of them that has struggled or has had something going on, and then so if their behavior is a little confronting to you or a little askew, you know you can be empathetic about it, and then that kind of allows them to get away with certain behaviors because you can see inside of them a certain part of them, which kind of gave me another realization as I was going through this process as well I'm capable of working on myself and digging deep. And then it sort of raises the question about people that I deal with as well why won't they dig deep? It's not that they can't, but why won't people do these things? Which could be a whole separate thing. But if I bring it back to beingness, the confronting aspect of allowing someone's their beingness is what's really hit me hard about this, because to allow someone their beingness might mean some really really hard decisions for you, which I thought was really interesting, not to mention for them.
Speaker 2:And for them as well.
Speaker 1:That's part, as difficult as it is. That is part of granting somebody beingness. They can't confront something they can't. For example, scientology doesn't work for you if you can't be honest with yourself.
Speaker 2:Which has been interesting, doing the values aspect as well, because it's made me realize how many, how many transactions, but very business-like too, because when you start breaking this stuff down, everything starts to become very transactional. And so to allow somebody to be them, which means not engaging them, even though you have an empathetic part of you that really likes a person or, you know, love something about their character but then to really maintain your values and allow them true beingness, might literally mean walking away and not doing business with these people. Right, and when I say doing business in a contract sense, I'm not going to engage and give part of me. I have to walk away, regardless of what my heart might say or what my empathy might say, and I find that really interesting. It can almost seem a little brutal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, quentin, do you want to say something, or do you mind if I go ahead and jump in.
Speaker 3:No, please go ahead, jump in. Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:Well look in this type of a situation. I we have certain things, certain uh tools, technologies that we use and you can you can grant a person being this and say, okay, that's that's where they're at on the tone scale. That's where they're at. Furthermore, on the chart of human evaluation because the chart of human evaluation is a guide to and we've talked about this in other podcasts numerous times, but it's something that bears repeating over and over and over the chart of human evaluation doesn't have every tone level that is on the tone scale. It's abbreviated with gaps, so to speak. So you're going to see things that at a certain tone level, their behaviors in a certain area might be above, that tone level might be below, because we don't have a chart of human ability that has every tone level that approaches all of these different behaviors, that has every tone level that approaches all of these different behaviors. And when you're dealing with a chronic tone level in someone which is incredibly difficult to spot even LRH had a hard time spotting people's tone level and the people that he was around and that he dealt with that ultimately led to his demise. Now think about that for a minute. Okay, this is our greatest comparable magnitude and the people that he had around him were dangerous and couldn't be trusted, and sold him out. That's a whole other podcast. But the thing is is that the guy that created these scales and there's no other answer for it and this isn't blasphemy or anything, I mean, it's the technology itself and he said even I have a hard time confronting evil in one of the references. So you have to take that into consideration.
Speaker 1:You have to look at the chronic tone level of the person that it is that you're dealing with, and the chart of human evaluation is the closest reference that we have on what it is that you're dealing with and what you're granting beingness to, which is exactly what you're talking about, is okay. Where are they at? On the tone scale, is that something I can deal with? Because then you have, in order to get into ARC with them, then you have to. If your tone level is lower or higher, doesn't matter. You the higher, well, higher. The higher tone level has to selectively give to be in ARC with that person at that chronic tone level and when you're doing that, you are then granting them beingness and then when you do that, it can be. If you can't manage it, you can go the effect of it and it can be excruciating if they are not open to change.
Speaker 1:And that is where the grade chart comes in in the chart of awareness. The chart of awareness is the scale in between the training side and the auditing side of the grade chart and it goes there's a huge list underneath it, depending on the version of the grade chart that you use Right at the very bottom of the grade chart right before you enter. Enter, let's say, the purification rundown. It's need for change. If, if somebody isn't willing to get that, get that change and do something about it, you're going to have to grant them the beingness of all of the scales of awareness below that on that chart and try to bring them up to need for change. But if they don't want that help, you're sort of at a dead end, which is you're going to have to grant them beingness because they aren't at need for change and don't accept the subject. At worst.
Speaker 2:Quentin, and this is Scientology-related completely. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, it's Scientology and Dianetics-related, because all of it is on the grade chart. It doesn't matter. If a person has stuff in restimulation and they're not willing to look at it, they're not willing to take any responsibility for it and have a need for change, then you have to grant them that beingness, and that could be a really tough go.
Speaker 2:And that's the part I'm talking about is that part of having to make that decision, no matter how hard it pulls on you and no matter how hard like handling your own emotions around that whoa Right?
Speaker 1:right, like handling your own emotions around that whoa right, right, because right. And the emotions, the emotions that you're experiencing, are you having to try and occupy that tone level, that viewpoint, quentin well?
Speaker 3:I want to make sure I'm understanding where Arthur is coming from with it as well, because, based on what I'm hearing, as you were exploring your own beingness, right, that kind of forced you to also confront that there is other beings that are being right, beings that are being right, and in confronting that there are other beings that are being that took a large level of confront to confront that other beings are being. Is that what I'm hearing? Yes, pretty much. Okay, yeah, got it. Got it. Now talk to me about where the idea that other beings are being got lost in the first place the idea that other beings are being got lost in the first place?
Speaker 3:In other words, where did the idea of other beings being get lost Like?
Speaker 2:they've been being no-transcript while I'm going through this process, because you kind of think you know until you put it to paper. You think you know where you, where you ethically and morally stand, until you actually write it out and actually have to think about it. You know some things are a no-brainer, like, say, in a relationship dynamic, you know not cheating and then and not lying and a friendship dynamic. You know you want an honest friend, you want a transparent friend or that kind of thing. But then, when you really start breaking it down and to answer your question, I've realized how much I've alterized my perception and gone against my own intuition so many times and it wasn't until I started breaking it down that I started to as is things, which is really interesting and I didn't realize that until I started this process and that that is the higher tone, selectively giving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're, you're, you're. You're having to go into agreement. You're dropping down the chart of human evaluation. You're having to go into agreement. You're dropping down the chart of human evaluation. You're dropping down the chart, the tone scale, because they're one and the same, although the chart of human evaluation doesn't, like I said, doesn't have every tone level on it. There are gaps because the chart of human evaluation was book two, which is Science of Survival, and Science of Survival came out in 51. The reason why it's called book two is it was the second book after Dianetics and plotted people out where they're at based off of their attention units. How many attention units does a person have? If you just said, okay, they have a maximum capacity of 100 attention units and let's say they're at 53. Well, that's going to put them down below 2.0 on the tone scale.
Speaker 1:And what you're dealing with chronically, again, you have a chronic tone level, you have a social tone level and they can be really deceiving. And the further they are down the tone scale, the more the chronic tone level can be much more deceiving. And you think you're dealing with one thing and you're really dealing with another. So, when you select, when you select, when you selectively give to go down the tone scale, that is what you're experiencing. What you're describing is that set of feelings, manifestations, emotions, all of this stuff.
Speaker 1:And then you because in order to be in any ARC with somebody, you have to, you have to, you know, say okay, I will play this game, whatever the game. You know, and unfortunately, games aren't on the chart of human evaluation, but yet they are, because their perception of person, because and Quentin can probably extrapolate on this in a way that I can't but people, the games that they play, depending on their tone level, is drastically different because of that tone level, because their perception of reality, which is on the chart of human evaluation, you can look at it and go okay, so you say this happened, and they see something else that happened, and it's completely different because they're looking at it from a total viewpoint of victim as opposed to a total viewpoint of responsibility, because that's I mean victim is on the tone scale, quentin.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I mean, when we look at it from, when we look at it from the perspective of granting beingness to me. Granting beingness allows one, allows me I'll speak from my own personal experience. It allows me to kind of stay at the top of the tone scale, right, like so. If I'm feeling very happy, very enthusiastic, very uptoned, very capable, and I'm observing that someone else is not willing and or able to be at that place, I can grant beingness to that person to be where they are. That doesn't require me to drop tone, to give anything to that right, to give anything to that, except the fact that it can be right and it kind of, almost kind of, puts you in a divine protection, if you will kind of state right, a thousand shall fall at my left side and 10,000 at my right, but it shall not come near me. That's how scripture says it, that it can happen over there and it can happen over here, but it can't come near me because I can let it be over there. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So you're reminding it.
Speaker 3:of course it has nothing to do with me. Yeah, that is where you can be over there. You can be, you, over there, and we see it in society, we see it in communities, we see it in the prisons and in jails. If a person gets in jail and they start acting out in jail, they put them down in the chute. They put them down in solitary confinement and say you can act up. But you go into the chute and you're going to act up down in there, and so it still allows everybody else to function as they need to function in society.
Speaker 3:If a person is sick, when we were dealing with the whole COVID thing or whatever the isolation and the quarantine and stuff the whole idea is is that I'm not going to stop everything else from being because you want to be stupid, or we're not going to stop everything else from functioning because you want to act out. If you want to be over there, go be you over there. I'm going to be over here. That's kind of how I see it, and what it does is, in my viewpoint. What it does is it doesn't force anybody to have to change. You don't have to change. If you don't want to, you don't have to.
Speaker 1:You don't have to do nothing different If that's not where you are just go be over there and do it Right, and that's what I was saying, and that's kind of what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, you know that's. You know that's. That's the axiom. In order to play a game, a thetan has to become aberrated. They have to be willing, be willing to become aberrated. And so what? What game you're playing at 2.0 and what game you're playing at 3.0 and 3.5, these games are different because, if you look at the chart of human evaluation, how do they handle communication? And that's an obvious index, because it sticks out, it's that thread in the sweater, it's the tag that you can pull out, because it's something that you can see. But you, you, if, if you've already decided to become aberrated. Well, they could be meaning this, or they could be meaning that, what, what is going on? Well, okay, then you've already become, aber you've agreed to become to that point right to that point, and now you're playing that game.
Speaker 3:Yeah I don't want to play that game right.
Speaker 1:So it. It can it, because in order to play a game, when when is when a person is is playing a game, you have to say that there is, and this is part of the axioms as well, as you have to say there's something there I don't know. And the thing is is okay, if you look at the chart of human evaluation and you understand the tone scale and you understand beingness, you already know it. But there's an altar, is there that you're saying I don't know, because I want to play this game, yes, yes. And then there you go. So your beingness is modified by your agreement to become aberrated. Yeah, interesting.
Speaker 1:Which is part of the vows.
Speaker 3:And to that degree we start to fall, we start to come down tone and start to try to play the game with them. And it's, and it, and it's, and, quite honestly, it's a losing game. It's, it's, it's not even a game where one really wins Right.
Speaker 1:Because they're not willing to help themselves when you start getting the lower tone scale Right. Right, and so you know, it's like I want to play soccer, they want to play soccer, they want to play tennis. Well, I want you to come over and play tennis with me.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, but tennis it sounds like to me. I want to play soccer and they want to play exploding soccer balls. Like I don't want to play with exploding soccer balls.
Speaker 1:That'd feel good to me. Yeah, and, and you know to the degree that they, they they're further down the tone scale, the more they enjoy the drama, the drama of the explosions of the explosions look at that, look at that effect I caused yeah, yeah and then so there you have this.
Speaker 1:Okay, so your beingness is modified to the degree that you go into agreement of things. But the thing is is what carter is saying? I mean, the bigger picture is is, if you're, if you're, you grant them beingness. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to play their game. You can grant them beingness, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to play their game. You can grant them beingness and say, okay, that's the thing you want to do, that's right.
Speaker 2:Another thing I realized going through this and I'm still going through it is the importance of communication as well. But is the importance of communication as well? Because I discovered as well that you tend to alter a situation because you don't know how to communicate it correctly, and so you kind of buy into other games that you wouldn't necessarily buy into if you actually knew that you didn't want to play such a game, which I thought was really interesting and that just sort of opened another aspect of communication around this as well. Because if you can't communicate how to maintain your own beingness and allow somebody to have their beingness, and if your communication is a little out, not only within yourself but also outwardly that's when you tend to fall into the alter-is-ing as well Then you start buying into games because you don't know what to say, how to say it, so you just okay, sure, you just automatically enter these games without realizing it, until it's too late. Really interesting.
Speaker 3:It's almost like one may succumb, as it were, succumb to such a thing, like such a game'm a good person. And this is going on like how do I get, how do I get sucked into this, how do I get pulled into this kind of craziness, right? Um, and it's almost like this, this, this, it absorbs, you know, it absorbs it all, it absorbs that level of beingness, it absorbs it and pulls it in. You know, I I remember when I was a kid I used to love Batman. You remember Batman and remember the Michael Keaton one 1988, I think it was with the Joker, with Jack Nicholson Joker, my favorite movie at that time, right, and what I loved about that whole scene and about the whole movie thing.
Speaker 3:The Joker was an agent of chaos. That's just what he was. He was an agent of chaos and no matter what he did, he would always try to do some confusion and some chaos and blow it explosions and all that kind of stuff and Batman, to this day, would keep getting pulled into the Joker's shenanigans. And then it wasn't until Heath Ledger's version of the Joker where he said it's like an unmovable object encounters an unstoppable force. Batman was the unmovable object and Joker was the unstoppable force. Right, he said you can never kill me, you can never beat me, because it's like an unmovable object encounters an unstoppable force. Right, and this is batman constantly got pulled into with the joker right, and until this day, the joker is still his arch nemesis.
Speaker 3:Because the joker would always be able to pull batman into his shenanigans, right, and he literally positioned himself as this agent of chaos. That's all he wanted to. That's all he ever tried to do. He, I just wanted to create chaos and and Batman being, you know he couldn't kill cause, you know, he was too good for that Right, so he could never kill the Joker. And so he kept getting pulled into Joker's shenanigans, because that's the game that the Joker wanted to play and the Batman being where he was on the total scale, he kept getting sucked right into it ain't that crazy what they say when you argue?
Speaker 3:when you argue with a fool, who's the?
Speaker 1:bigger fool, right, the joker. The joker would go do something that batman had to do something about because he felt responsible, you know, robbing a bank or blowing up a building or that you know that type of a thing, right. And so he was a sucker for the jokers, the jokers things. And you know, lrh? Lrh says there's a reference and it's it's. It's not a common one and I'm going to have to paraphrase it, but he says sometimes responsibility is doing nothing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, because I was going to ask out of Batman and the Joker, who's higher toned? That's an interesting question. Batman, what I would say is that definitely, if one can be at a place where I can do something without compromising my own values or my own integrity on whatever level, even though Batman did some questionable things, like he would hang somebody off a building to get them to confess or something like that but he would never go too far with it. This is thing right. So I would still say batman was still higher tone and like like, uh, jonathan just said, and he would selectively give the higher tone, selectively gives to the lower tone, and so, and he would selectively give to the joker when the joker's antics would get involved it's crazy, right, right, right, because he wants to help whoever it is that's gotten caught up in his antics as well, because they might die.
Speaker 1:You know Superman and the train, the subway train, you know coming off the rails and everything, and he has to come and save the day and all of this stuff. But it's what it comes down to is and LRH talks about this, talks about this on the in the knots materials obliquely and he says it takes the fun out of movies. Oh yeah, doing knots, aud auditing, because your need to engage in drama is taken away, because you already see where this is going and you're like, okay, so this is the game that is being played in this fictional story. But the the question, the question is if you want to involve yourself in that drama or not, because you're superman or you're batman or whatever. But the thing is, is these, these, these stories, these fictional stories? I mean, you know this is is why they call there's a movie classification called dramas. Yeah, yeah, you know, all stories have to have an antagonist and a protagonist. Okay, that's what we're talking about here. That's what we're talking about in beingness. Every story, every story that we have here on earth, has a being of a higher tone and a being of a lower tone. Think about that for a minute. Yeah, and what is the being, the higher tone being doing in order to create the drama? What are they doing? They're dropping down the tone scale in order to surmount the obstacles created by the lower-toned being or beings. Whatever it is, whether it's an action flick or whether it's a romance or whatever. That's all this is. That's all this is and this goes back to what Arthur is saying is, you know, beingness and values. Beingness and values, because, in order to have a story and this is really important and this is true in life and it is true in fiction your suspension of disbelief.
Speaker 1:A story isn't a good story if your disbelief is not suspended. Think about that for a minute. That's a deep one. How can this person Say that one more time? How can this person be that way? There might be some good in them. Now your disbelief is suspended, you're like, eh, there's a chance. That's what I'm talking about. Maybe I can turn the joker, maybe I can get him to see, maybe I can get him to get mental help, that type of thing. If your disbelief is not suspended, you go ah, let's watch something else. Ah, let's read something else. Ah, let's read something else. Now, look at that in your life. Look at that in your life your suspension of disbelief. How can that person be that way? That is so fucked up. Yeah, but I know that there's some good in them. I want to try to help them.
Speaker 2:And that's the trap right there.
Speaker 1:Suspension of disbelief.
Speaker 3:There's a line from the movie the Color Purple, and the man in the color purple was beating his wife as she goes to her friend and she was like you know, but he's my husband and you know heaven, you know if I want to get to heaven, because you know, but he's my husband and you know heaven, you know if I'm I want to get to heaven because you know I have to obey my husband. She says, and that woman said listen, you better bust Mr Upside His Head and think about heaven later. And I said like listen, I'm not dealing with this, you better bust Mr Upside His Head and think about heaven later. And so this whole idea of like, if a person doesn't want to change the arrogance, in my opinion, the arrogance of wanting them to change more than they want to, to me it's a very arrogant viewpoint. I want you to be who you choose to be and you be that. And if you be that, then that's where you want to be in life. That's the experience you want to create around you. You have every right to be that. You got every right to be the joker. You got every right to be.
Speaker 3:I called it. There was a client of mine who she just always. I call it chaotic because she always in chaos, always dealing with something. I call it chaotic, hey, chaotic. She's like don't call me that, it's like don't call me that it's like, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, the other side of the arrogance is that the person that you're dealing with, the antagonist, has the arrogance to say that I'm going to live my life the way I want to and I'm going to do what I want to do, and nobody else can stop me and I can't stop myself, and so I'm going to be arrogant about it and I'm right and everybody else is wrong, and I will not be told what to do by anybody. That is arrogance, and I will continue to aberrate myself until such time that I realize I've hit rock bottom, and then I might even continue further on from there, when the answers were right in front of me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And what's crazy about it is that what we find is that, across the dynamics, right across the universe, however you want to say it, that those people who operate with that level of arrogance that they, with absolutely no control of self, right that their own integrity, their own ethics, they put it in on themselves, right, they start to put it in on themselves, they start to cave themselves in, they start to destroy themselves on whatever level, because they're so out of control, out of ethics, because they're so out of whack that they start to put it in on themselves, and dreadfully so. It's not even a subtle thing sometimes. Sometimes it's just like they really cave themselves in and it's actually interesting to watch it. Different modalities call it karma, some people call it you know other things. You reap what you sow, however you want to say it, but the truth of the matter is you're reaping it and you're sowing it. You're sowing it and you're reaping it. It's all you, baby.
Speaker 1:It ain't gotta be me, because it's all you Right watch me destroy myself and I, it ain't got to be me because it's all you Right Watch me destroy myself, and I'm happy doing it.
Speaker 3:Yes, enjoy.
Speaker 2:Have a wonderful time, because one of the traps I noticed as I was going through this as well is wanting for people to change, especially when it's somebody that you care for. But then the confronting aspect of allowing somebody their beingness is allowing them their beingness wholeheartedly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go ahead and drive that car off the cliff.
Speaker 2:Go ahead Exactly, and that's a super tough thing.
Speaker 1:It is. It's a game between your emotions and what actually is.
Speaker 2:It is. The alter-is-ing is incredible. That's the thing that's blown my mind the most the amount of my reality that I would distort to suit me and make me somewhat comfortable. But deep inside I'm not comfortable. That's the reality, and my body screams at me saying no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And my heart's like oh, but oh, but, oh, but oh. But you know, like I'm destroying my own beingness while buying into somebody else's beingness, as opposed to just letting them be who they are and who they choose to be. Who am I to change someone?
Speaker 1:It's insane.
Speaker 2:Insane.
Speaker 3:This is powerful.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, go ahead jonathan quentin, I wanted to ask you just just just as a um, comparable magnitude, uh, biblically speaking, did jesus run into this with, with judas or you know, you know any of these other guys where he had? He had to look at it and he had to grant them beingness and you know selling him out and all of that stuff. I'm pretty sure that Wow.
Speaker 3:You already hit the book, you already know the story. Yes, absolutely. And you get to a place he got to a place in the story where you had to let them be where they are. You just had to let them be where they are. You just had to let them be where they are. And if his best friend denied him three times I don't know that man, I don't know him, I don't know him, you can kill me dead if I'm lying, that's what he said Denied him three times and he just hung his head and was sad. And you have to just let them be where they are. There's another story where they wanted to go over to another part of the area over across the Sea of Galilee, and they jumped in the boat and left him. He was left on the shore, he was when he walked on water. He actually walked on water to go catch up with the boat because they just left him. He was like you know what? I'll just come out to y'all, don't have to come back, I'll just come out to y'all.
Speaker 3:Lrh says it this way. It says in the top triangle it's a policy letter 18 February 1972, on the top triangle. And he says a being can, of course, run away from life, blow and go, sit on the backside of the moon and do nothing and think nothing, in which case he would need to know nothing, be responsible for nothing and control nothing. He would also be unhappy and he definitely would be dead, so far as himself and all else was concerned. But as you can't kill a Thetan, the state is impossible to maintain and the road back can be gruesome. Now catch this, he said. But the route up from death or apathy or inaction is to know something about it, take some responsibility for the state one is in at the scene and the scene and control oneself to a point where some control could be put into the scene and make it go right. So it's interesting he says that the route out of this all has nothing to do with anybody else. He said it's to know something can be done about it, to take responsibility for the state one is in and the scene and to control oneself to a point where some control can be put into the scene and make it go right has nothing to do with trying to control the other person. Let them drive off the cliff trying to control the other person. Let them drive off the cliff, control yourself, know that something can be done about your whole thing, about this whole state. I can feel better, I can do better, I can know better, I can choose better, I can opt for better, and if they want to drive off the cliff, you let them drive off the cliff and know that, as I am.
Speaker 3:Knowledge, responsibility, control that's what the upper triangle represents. Knowledge, responsibility, control that's what the upper triangle represents. Knowledge, responsibility, control the KRC triangle. It's not about controlling other people. It's not about controlling other people. It's about control oneself to a point where some control can be put into the scene and make it go right. That's how you come out of this, that's how you get out of it all. It has nothing to do with the other person's situation. And so granting beingness, in my opinion and this is the most beautiful thing in Scientology, if I was to say something about it is that granting beingness allows you to let that person be who they are, where they are, and you put in the knowledge, responsibility and control of self as you come up the tone scale, as you come up the bridge, as you do the work right, and then to the point where you can make it go right around you, and if they can't be around you, they just can't be around you. They're at the bottom of the cliff, in the middle of an explosion.
Speaker 2:And what's beautiful about that is being in that position. People will actually learn from you in that way if they choose to, because even if we go back to jesus as well, um, unless you had faith, he would not heal you, so he already had his second mission if you have faith he could not, then your faith has made you all that yeah, and if yeah, and if they denied it, well, good luck to you.
Speaker 2:See you later. You know he was. He was that cut and dry. He wasn't wishy-washy. Oh, let's see what happens. Oh, he really needs some help. Maybe I'll help him out. And that never happened. He was very cut and dry. He set the terms.
Speaker 3:I said in the last podcast, where the man wanted to follow this higher path, this higher way, and he said, master, I want to follow you. And he said, but first I have to go bury my father. He just died. I have to go bury my father. And Jesus said you, let the dead bury their dead, you come, follow me. And the man walked away saying and Jesus walked the other way. That's that on that. That's right. You got other things that you got to focus on. You go, you go bury your dad, dad, it in. Okay, what do I want to do about it? And he walked away saying interesting.
Speaker 1:Oh, and there we have it.
Speaker 3:Because, because what I love about Scientology is that it gives you the way out. It gives you the route up from death. That's how he says it here the route up from death, the route up from apathy, the route up from inaction, the route up from depression, the route up from anxiety, the route up from these things that keep you stuck down there. Wherever down there consists of, there's a route up, and it has everything to do with knowing that something can be done about it, taking some responsibility for the state that one is in and control oneself to a point where you can put some control in the scene and make it go right. And it says this then know why it went wrong. And it says this then know why it went wrong, take responsibility for it and control it enough to make it go more toward an ideal scene.
Speaker 3:It's a beautiful way of moving one to a higher expansion, to a higher place of being. But you've got to take responsibility for self, you've got to put control in on self. I cannot live like this anymore. I cannot be like this anymore, I cannot do this anymore. And when you put the control in on oneself, it actually makes the scene go right. Ain't that funny?
Speaker 1:Well, and that also comes from the K in KRC knowledge, yeah, knowledge. You have to have the right tools, you have to have the understanding of it, you have to have the study tech in to look at it and be willing to study it and take the time to clear the words, take the time to clear the words in session and understand the auditing command so that then you can take some control of the auditor directing your attention and putting your attention on that and being honest with yourself and answering the question and getting the end phenomena of that particular thing, whether it's Scientology or Dianetics, processing and it's all in life. But there's a difference when you're in session with somebody as opposed to just reading something, because the auditor is directing your attention to something that has charge, otherwise we wouldn't be directing your attention towards it.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:So you know, being there, I had a guy at the gym one day. We were over doing the weight machines and everything and he looked at me and he saw I was sweating, he was sweating and we're both really trying to put in the work and he says, you know, 75% of it is showing up, 75% of it is showing up, and that's the truth. Percent of it is showing up, and that's the truth. Showing up in this sense, showing, showing up in this sense is being willing to be honest with self, opening self up and being able to, as arthur says, confronting um, you, you have to be willing to look at this stuff and you have to be willing to take a look at it, have a realization, apply that and be resolute in it in order to get something from it.
Speaker 1:If you can't do that, you cannot proceed because you're not honest with yourself, and that's part of beingness. Can I be honest with myself? I think that that is the defining factor in beingness is can I be honest with myself? Yes, I can. I know I can do these things, I know I can be these things. I don't have to have in order to do, in order to be.
Speaker 1:I can just be and I will do what I need to do and have what I need to have, and that's all it takes. We've broken this down to its simplest components in this podcast and it's a very, very blunt. It's not harsh, but it's a very blunt thing. And Quentin was mentioning yesterday all of the podcasts and I gotta say this I got a session in 10 minutes so I'm gonna have to go, but Quentin was saying what's the deal with these podcasts? Quentin, what was it? You were saying which podcasts didn't do as well.
Speaker 3:Any of the podcasts that talks about right and wrong, that talks about ethics, that talks about you know evil purposes and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Those podcasts you get, like about 45 people want to watch it. But the podcast about destruction and mayhem and all the other stuff going wrong in the world and in Scientology, people want to watch that because they don't want to deal with their own stuff. They don't want to deal with the stuff that really is at the crux of what's keeping you in a degraded condition on whatever level. Like dealing with that. That's the stuff that's going to help you out.
Speaker 2:Out to shoot, right, yeah maybe we should, um, maybe we should name this podcast scientology the destruction of beingness we'll come up with a, with a, with a clickbait title you gotta, you gotta catch up, you know you gotta catch up, yeah got to catch them.
Speaker 3:You know, you got to catch them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the thing. You know is bad news. Bad news sells, and that's because you're dealing with the common denominator which he talks about in King Scientology. Working number one is the reactive bank.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And also something I find really important as well as I've been going through this, is why, why won't people take these steps? And I think the want to, to do this or to do something to make a change is really important, because I find that, as I'm going through this, a lot of people don't want strong enough well, yeah a lot of people don't say that again.
Speaker 1:A lot of people don't want strong enough.
Speaker 3:Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah they're not.
Speaker 1:They're not on the awareness scale, they're not at need for change. I you look the there's this, there's this concept, the beautiful sadness of it all. Look how beautifully sad this thing is and lament the fact that you're so miserable and everything, and you revel in the fact that it's the beautiful sadness of it all. I could have had this, I could have done that, but I decided not to. And isn't it so sad and it's just. I just love that I'm living this drama, I'm living this movie that I'm creating, that it doesn't have a happy ending. That is reactive mind. That is what needs to be handled. That is why there is every story, because the interest that's what sells movies and stuff is is, you know, people love stories like the notebook the beautiful, sad, the beautiful sadness of it all yeah you know, it was so romantic, so nice.
Speaker 3:They can never meet they can never see each other and then they just died.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, all the fighting, all the love making, all the cheating, yeah, all the good stuff yeah, all that, all that stuff, and, and, and.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, did you get any better before you moved on to your next lifetime and repeated the same thing? Come on come on, you're better than that, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, but my friend, tries to do that whole thing where he just wants to tell the stories like thing, come on, come on, you're better than that, right? My friend tries to do that whole thing where he just wants to tell the stories, like, let me tell you what happened to me today. And in the middle of his story I just started singing a karaoke song and he was like what are you doing? And I said, oh, I thought we were just going to entertain each other and regale each other with our wonderful talents. You go tell me a story. I'm going to bring you a phone.
Speaker 1:I want to hear that bass, right, yeah, let it.
Speaker 2:That was really good.
Speaker 3:You have to just grant it beingness and that's where they're at.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I got time to start doing it. As hard as that is, that's what you have to do, and you have to be able to do that and be able to be yourself and accept the beautiful sadness of whatever it is that they're doing and grant them that being that's the game that they're going to play, and your game is different than their game, and that's really tough, but it can be done and I hope that everybody understands this podcast because it's it's it's really deep.
Speaker 3:Really, yeah, we, we, we would, we would a lot of different places with it, but but suffice it to say get auditing, be you. You have every right to be your best self, and that's what we, that's what we want to come in and be a part of that. You becoming yours, you being your best self, that's right and that's where this opens up. That's right. A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:So, arthur and Quentin, we hope you enjoyed this podcast and we'll see you for another installment, hopefully tomorrow or Friday, hopefully tomorrow, trying to get three out this week again tomorrow or Friday, hopefully tomorrow trying to get three out this week again, namaste, and we love you.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye, bye-bye, peace, thank you, thank you.